Turkish/Greek Cypriot K15 PCA

[lonewolfcypriot]

For this PCA that I created, I made sure that I only included individuals who were fully Turkish/Greek Cypriot. Personally, I don't really care whether Turkish Cypriots are genetically Turkish or not, I only made this PCA for fun.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/46508783752_d93b92e456_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/2dRPF4W)map me 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2dRPF4W) by Levent Yildiz (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160785594@N06/), on Flickr







One thing I noticed is that GC's more than often are Greek Shifted wile TC's are Turkish and SSA shifted:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7896/46560641161_d10448756d_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/2dWpstc)map me 2b (https://flic.kr/p/2dWpstc) by Levent Yildiz (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160785594@N06/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4907/46560642831_cbe9640ef5_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/2dWpsXZ)map me 2c (https://flic.kr/p/2dWpsXZ) by Levent Yildiz (https://www.flickr.com/photos/160785594@N06/), on Flickr

Either way both population cluster so much that they are almost inseparable.
I hope you found this interesting.
P.S. Red=Turkish Blue=Greek

[Sikeliot]

Some of the Greek Cypriots on the plot end up near some of the more outlying South Italians and Sicilians (some of whom plot quite far away from the average which is based on Syracuse/Trapani), which reinforces my view that Cypriots are the tail end of the Sicilian/Calabrian/Aegean islands spectrum.

[Teucer]

Thank you for doing this. Must have taken a while

[Teucer]

Some of the Greek Cypriots on the plot end up near some of the more outlying South Italians and Sicilians (some of whom plot quite far away from the average which is based on Syracuse/Trapani), which reinforces my view that Cypriots are the tail end of the Sicilian/Calabrian/Aegean islands spectrum.

Looking at this plot, it is clear to me Cypriots do not fit nicely within the Levantine cluster. Sikeliot, maybe you should forward this plot onto your most recent Cypriot thread and see what the Levantine proponents have to say

[Sikeliot]

Looking at this plot, it is clear to me Cypriots do not fit nicely within the Levantine cluster. Sikeliot, maybe you should forward this plot onto your most recent Cypriot thread and see what the Levantine proponents have to say


Look at these Cypriot results... they are as close to Crete/South Italy/Sicily as to Levant, which means they are intermediate.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?272863-Cypriot-GEDMatches-they-are-roughly-intermediate-between-South-Italy-Aegean-and-Levant

And see here on this plot, some "South Italians" (Calabria or Sicily surely) plot with Cyprus, while the Levantines are further away:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2eFQq_KPR90/V3uAhQV8jqI/AAAAAAAAA_s/m8o6Kd8SHzYkWU5xeK-2uzpVrTIiPL_PQCLcB/s1600/fiorito2016-figS8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Yi89bu.png

[Teucer]

Look at these Cypriot results... they are as close to Crete/South Italy/Sicily as to Levant, which means they are intermediate.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?272863-Cypriot-GEDMatches-they-are-roughly-intermediate-between-South-Italy-Aegean-and-Levant

And see here on this plot, some "South Italians" (Calabria or Sicily surely) plot with Cyprus, while the Levantines are further away:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2eFQq_KPR90/V3uAhQV8jqI/AAAAAAAAA_s/m8o6Kd8SHzYkWU5xeK-2uzpVrTIiPL_PQCLcB/s1600/fiorito2016-figS8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Yi89bu.png

To be honest, even looking at the Lebanese and Druze in comparison to other Levantine populations, they also look like outliers. Why do you think that is?

[lonewolfcypriot]

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[FinalFlash]

Look at these Cypriot results... they are as close to Crete/South Italy/Sicily as to Levant, which means they are intermediate.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?272863-Cypriot-GEDMatches-they-are-roughly-intermediate-between-South-Italy-Aegean-and-Levant

And see here on this plot, some "South Italians" (Calabria or Sicily surely) plot with Cyprus, while the Levantines are further away:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2eFQq_KPR90/V3uAhQV8jqI/AAAAAAAAA_s/m8o6Kd8SHzYkWU5xeK-2uzpVrTIiPL_PQCLcB/s1600/fiorito2016-figS8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1Yi89bu.png

Even the Druze seem like they're slight outliers in the Levantosphere. If you exclude them and count the more mainstream Levantines, then it isnt a surprise why Cypriots are relatively closer to far south Med islanders than even to mainstream Levantines. Cypriots must have more Greek ancestry than what's been popularly believed.

[Sikeliot]

Even the Druze seem like they're slight outliers in the Levantosphere. If you exclude them and count the more mainstream Levantines, then it isnt a surprise why Cypriots are relatively closer to far south Med islanders than even to mainstream Levantines. Cypriots must have more Greek ancestry than what's been popularly believed.

What it seems to me is that the difference between Calabria/Sicily/South Aegean islands is the presence of about 10% North European input, and a decrease in Levantine and Caucasus. If you dropped the North European input, these groups really should not differ much from Cypriots at all.

[lonewolfcypriot]

What it seems to me is that the difference between Calabria/Sicily/South Aegean islands is the presence of about 10% North European input, and a decrease in Levantine and Caucasus. If you dropped the North European input, these groups really should not differ much from Cypriots at all.

Looks like Greek Cypriots are actually Italian Cypriots then.

[Sikeliot]

Here are some Sicilians who begin to plot near the northernmost Cypriots. The blue cluster is from Messina.

https://i.imgur.com/YuZ2L1U.png

[Teucer]

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[Mingle]

Even the Druze seem like they're slight outliers in the Levantosphere. If you exclude them and count the more mainstream Levantines, then it isnt a surprise why Cypriots are relatively closer to far south Med islanders than even to mainstream Levantines. Cypriots must have more Greek ancestry than what's been popularly believed.

Don't know about how much Greek ancestry they have (though they obviously would have some), but they're also said to have significant Anatolian ancestry as well and that would be a factor in them being pulled away from the Levant.

[Teucer]

Don't know about how much Greek ancestry they have (though they obviously would have some), but they're also said to have significant Anatolian ancestry as well and that would be a factor in them being pulled away from the Levant.

That and less Arabian ancestry too?

[Sikeliot]

It is also worth noting many Calabrians seem to have uniparental (y-dna) similarities to Cypriots, and plot close to them so it makes me wonder if there may be a partial Cypriot ancestry to the Calabrian Greek populations of the past.

[lonewolfcypriot]

It is also worth noting many Calabrians seem to have uniparental (y-dna) similarities to Cypriots, and plot close to them so it makes me wonder if there may be a partial Cypriot ancestry to the Calabrian Greek populations of the past.

How about the venetians? Everytime I go on Ancestry, I always see Cypriots a 10-25% Italian percentage. In Cyprus there were many villages where ethnic Italians lived so it isn't really farfetched. Maybe originally the Cypriots were Pure Levantines but when the Venetians came over and mixed with the natives, this pulled them closer to South European populations? I could be wrong.

[Sikeliot]

How about the venetians? Everytime I go on Ancestry, I always see Cypriots a 10-25% Italian percentage. In Cyprus there were many villages where ethnic Italians lived so it isn't really farfetched. Maybe originally the Cypriots were Pure Levantines but when the Venetians came over and mixed with the natives, this pulled them closer to South European populations? I could be wrong.

That 'Italian' they score is likely common roots with South Italians.

[lonewolfcypriot]

That 'Italian' they score is likely common roots with South Italians.

So does this mean that the Italian that they score might not be 'Italian' but could actually be ancient Greek dna being misinterpreted as Italian?

[Tauromachos]

It is also worth noting many Calabrians seem to have uniparental (y-dna) similarities to Cypriots, and plot close to them so it makes me wonder if there may be a partial Cypriot ancestry to the Calabrian Greek populations of the past.

Didn't you say once Calabria is the place with the highest R1b in Europe?

[Sikeliot]

Didn't you say once Calabria is the place with the highest R1b in Europe?

The highest Anatolian/West Asian R1b, yes. Subclades found in Turkey and Caucasus and among Armenians.

[Mingle]

That and less Arabian ancestry too?I don't think that's really an important factor here since non-Muslim Levantines have little to no Peninsular Arab DNA. Its mainly the Anatolian and Greek ancestry that pulls them away from the mainland/Levant. I guess the Levantines would have extra Natufian and Mesopotamian to compensate for having less Greek and Anatolian. Natufian peaks in Peninsular Arabs so I guess you may be technically right in that statement but its more of ancient shared ancestry rather than ancestry from Arabia to the Levant.

By the way, I think its mainly the Anatolian influence rather than the Greek influence that makes Cypriots plot northwest of the mainland. If you notice, Anatolian and Pontian Greeks tend to show just a small genetic difference to neighboring West Asian groups (especially Armenians), indicating only minor Greek ancestry, but they are still genetically close to Cypriots. So it must be mainly cause of shared Anatolian ancestry. Balkan Turks and Cypriot Turks are both a mainly native population with minor Anatolian Turkish blood, but since Cypriot Turks have more ancient Anatolian ancestry, they're genetically closer to Anatolian Turks than Balkan Turks are. Cypriots obviously have some Greek admixture as well but its probably secondary to Anatolian. Don't know any percentages though.

[Tauromachos]

The highest Anatolian/West Asian R1b, yes. Subclades found in Turkey and Caucasus and among Armenians.

But the subclade you named was the same with Albanians and Greeks

You said also one time yourself R1b in Albanians and Armenians is essentialy the same

[Sikeliot]

But the subclade you named was the same with Albanians and Greeks

You said also one time yourself R1b in Albanians and Armenians is essentialy the same


I didn't say this, no.

[Teucer]

By the way, I think its mainly the Anatolian influence rather than the Greek influence that makes Cypriots plot northwest of the mainland. If you notice, Anatolian and Pontian Greeks tend to show just a small genetic difference to neighboring West Asian groups (especially Armenians), indicating only minor Greek ancestry, but they are still genetically close to Cypriots.

If that were completely true, then Cypriots would be plotting more toward modern Anatolian populations like Pontians do too, but they do not. They plot with Aegean islanders, Sicilians and different Jewish groups. Maybe the Anatolian component you are speaking of (the ancient one) Cypriots have is more similar to the neolithic farmers that contributed the most to mainland greek ancestry than previously believed.

I am not saying identical, but more similar than tomodern Anatolians

[Sikeliot]

If that were completely true, then Cypriots would be plotting more toward modern Anatolian populations like Pontians do too, but they do not. They plot with Aegean islanders, Sicilians and different Jewish groups. Maybe the Anatolian component you are speaking of (the ancient one) Cypriots have is more similar to the neolithic farmers that contributed the most to mainland greek ancestry than previously believed.

I am not saying identical, but more similar than tomodern Anatolians


I posted some Calabrians here, with the goal of finding out how close they are to some of the more "European" Cypriots.

I hope someone can plot them on the same chart.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?273045-Can-someone-plot-these-Calabrians-for-me-on-the-Eurogenes-K15-plot-REP-COMMENTS-IF-YOU-DO-IT

[Tauromachos]

I didn't say this, no.



post 77

J2 is higher in Apulia than in Calabria, but Calabria has higher R1b-L23 (the highest in all of Europe).

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?248899-Did-the-ancient-Greeks-genocide-or-assimilate-the-Siculi-of-Sicily/page8&highlight=Calabria+highest

What about this https://indo-european.eu/tag/r1b-l23/

https://indo-european.eu/haplogroup-is-not-language-but-r1b-l23-expansion-was-associated-with-proto-indo-europeans/

From another thread posted by an Albanian member

R1b-L23 100%.

The downfall of the Mycenaeans in Greece is due to the R1b-L23 Dorians. This haplogroup obviously entered there at that time.

R1b-L23(CTS9219 and similar) in Greece is elevated in these areas of Dorian-speakers and conquest.

[Sikeliot]

post 77


https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?248899-Did-the-ancient-Greeks-genocide-or-assimilate-the-Siculi-of-Sicily/page8&highlight=Calabria+highest

What about this https://indo-european.eu/tag/r1b-l23/

https://indo-european.eu/haplogroup-is-not-language-but-r1b-l23-expansion-was-associated-with-proto-indo-europeans/

From another thread posted by an Albanian member



R1b-L23 is Anatolian R1b.

[Tauromachos]

R1b-L23 is Anatolian R1b.

Whatever it is ,apperently it exists in Greeks too

At least according to that Albanian poster

I also remember having seen other sources saying that R1b in Greece is mostly L-23

And its linked to IE speakers and has been said to been also in some Yamnaya people

[Teucer]

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