Who is closer to Judaism? islam or christianity(jews answer) [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Phenix

01-03-2019, 02:53 AM

Very honest answers, Christianity is a European religion while Judaism and Islam are Semitic cults.

Islam and Christianity are closer than either one is to Judaism.

I do not agree,Christianity is heavily influenced by European pagan beliefs.

Islam is more closer than its Semitic roots,so it is closer to Judaism.

Link between Christianity an Islam is their universal range, both are adhesion proposals, the contrary of tribalist Judaism. One might say Islam is halfway between the two, your words are not contradictory.

Hurrem sultana

01-03-2019, 02:57 AM

Very honest answers, Christianity is a European religion while Judaism and Islam are Semitic cults.

Link between Christianity an Islam is their universal range, both are adhesion proposals, the contrary of tribalist Judaism. One might say Islam is halfway between the two, your words are not contradictory.

how is islam and judaism cult while christianity european? and most of the christians of the planet earth are not europeans

sure islam and judaism have some common basic grounds,like they view on God same way while christians have the trinty (which is a huge sin in both islam and judaism)

Longbowman

01-03-2019, 03:02 AM

They're similar in different ways.

Christianity and Islam are 'one true path' religions in which the messiah has in effect already come. Islam also more or less accepts the Christian lore and builds on it. Judaism does not accept Christian lore.

Judaism and Islam are more monotheistic and their pagan influences are less obvious. They also have more focus on ritual restrictions and prayer than Christianity has.

Judaism and Christianity are superficially similar in the values of their practitioners due to shared history.

Islam is closer to both than either are to each other though.

Óttar

01-03-2019, 03:12 AM

Islam and Judaism both affirm the oneness of God (Tawhid) proclaiming Eloheinu Adonai Achad and Allahu Wahid ("God is one"). Neither one has room for a trinity. The fact that Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet merely defangs him. In Christianity, Jesus has THE central role in the work of salvation; every event is merely a footnote making way for his arrival.

Judaism has the rabbis who interpret the Talmud and Islam has the Sunnah, the traditions of the Prophet. Not to mention cultural similarities like Hebrew and Arabic both being West Semitic languages, and Jews and Muslims both maintaining beards and skull-caps.

Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda

01-04-2019, 01:11 PM

Longbowman

01-04-2019, 01:17 PM

I'm not surprised at all.
As other fellows have stressed, both religions share a lot, especially their strict monotheism.

However (that's a bit off-topic), I think that Islam had to emerge from a Jewish sect who was recognizing Jesus as the Massiah but not his divinity...

like Jehovah's Witnesses?

Islam was directly inspired by Christianity, not Judaism, but in character remained between the two.

Root

01-04-2019, 01:21 PM

I strongly recommend you to open this web link below and read its content very carefully.. obviously Muslims are closer to Jews or vice versa

http://www.judaism-islam.com/similarities-between-judaism-and-islam/

Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda

01-04-2019, 01:41 PM

like Jehovah's Witnesses?

Well, a sect that totally disagreed with the innovations made by Christians (trinity). A conservative and rustic sect who reproached Jews for their transgression of Judaism.
I guess that's why Coran contains Anti-Christians and Anti-Jews passages (not to forget that Mohammed probably got upset when both Arabian Jews and Christians didn't recognize him as a Messenger).
This sect would have wishing a "return to the sources", i.e "strict monotheism" / "Mosaic Law"

Loki

01-04-2019, 01:46 PM

Islam and Christianity are closer than either one is to Judaism.

A few points:

1. Perhaps if you look at the fact that both religions believe in Jesus (although Christians would argue that Muslims don't believe in the same Jesus), and Islam has taken in some sectarian ideas from early Christian writings (sectarian writings, gnostic, that are not acceped by Christianity. btw), yes you could argue Islam and Christianity are more related. But that is probably where the "relatedness" ends.

2. In holy texts, Christians and Jews share their acceptance of the Tanakh (the first 5 books of the Bible) and the Old Testament prophets. The Hebrew Bible and the Christian Bible are similar, with the main exception that the Hebrew one does not include the New Testament. The Islamic scriptures are only found in Islam and are not accepted by either Jews or Christians.

3. Theologically, Judaism and Islam are both legalistic, whereas Christianity is uniquely not legalistic in doctrine (except in some sects like Seventh Day Adventism, for example, which is closer to Judaism in that regard).

4. Judaism and Islam are both quite unforgiving religions, and believe in concepts like revenge when justified... whereas Christianity is uniquely different in having concepts like "love your enemies".

5. Judaism and Islam both concentrate more on the earthly existence, whereas Christianity's focus and hopes lie in the hereafter, eternal life in heaven.

6. Christians can have a intimate, personal relationship with God, whereas in both Judaism and Islam the concept of "God" is more distant.

There are probably lots more comparisons, but I quickly thought about these to show that Christianity is actually quite different from Judaism and Islam.

Loki

01-04-2019, 01:47 PM

I do not agree,Christianity is heavily influenced by European pagan beliefs.

No it isn't. Catholicism is to a certain extent, yes. But not all Christian groups.

Loki

01-04-2019, 01:51 PM

However (that's a bit off-topic), I think that Islam had to emerge from a Jewish sect who was recognizing Jesus as the Massiah but not his divinity...

Islam plagiarized both Christian and Jewish apocryphal writings, including gnostic ones... and it is important to note that they did not use the canonically accepted writings of Christians and Jews, and that accounts for many of the discrepancies in the stories about patriarchs, Jesus etc. I made a thread about that, it's quite revealing.

Loki

01-04-2019, 01:57 PM

Judaism and Islam are more monotheistic and their pagan influences are less obvious.

Pagan influences in Christianity are only noticeable in denominations like the Roman Catholic Church and other related ones. Much less so in Protestantism. Although I'd admit festivals like Christmas and Easter derive from pagan traditions, and were Christianized. That's why some Christians don't celebrate them. But that doesn't have any theological impact, actually, and is merely superficial.

Loki

01-04-2019, 02:01 PM

sure islam and judaism have some common basic grounds,like they view on God same way while christians have the trinty (which is a huge sin in both islam and judaism)

Yeah, that is perhaps the main difference that makes Christianity stand out as unique... in particular our belief that Jesus is God. Muslims and Jews reject that (against all good logic and revealed truth, may I add). In Christianity, everything centres around Jesus Christ. Life itself. He is God.

Loki

01-04-2019, 02:05 PM

i thought our hate for eachother ....

A recent survey about religion in America revealed that Jews actually dislike Evangelical Christians even more than they dislike Muslims (although it's almost at the same level, which is a high dislike). This is in stark contrast with Evangelical Christians, who regard Jews the highest of all foreign religion groups. Quite a disconnect.

Longbowman

01-04-2019, 02:09 PM

A few points:

1. Perhaps if you look at the fact that both religions believe in Jesus (although Christians would argue that Muslims don't believe in the same Jesus), and Islam has taken in some sectarian ideas from early Christian writings (sectarian writings, gnostic, that are not acceped by Christianity. btw), yes you could argue Islam and Christianity are more related. But that is probably where the "relatedness" ends.

2. In holy texts, Christians and Jews share their acceptance of the Tanakh (the first 5 books of the Bible) and the Old Testament prophets. The Hebrew Bible and the Christian Bible are similar, with the main exception that the Hebrew one does not include the New Testament. The Islamic scriptures are only found in Islam and are not accepted by either Jews or Christians.

3. Theologically, Judaism and Islam are both legalistic, whereas Christianity is uniquely not legalistic in doctrine (except in some sects like Seventh Day Adventism, for example, which is closer to Judaism in that regard).

Agree.

4. Judaism and Islam are both quite unforgiving religions, and believe in concepts like revenge when justified... whereas Christianity is uniquely different in having concepts like "love your enemies".

You could make the other argument: Judaism does not require non-Jews to become Jews in order to go to Heaven. Judaism's God will not automatically condemn you for anything in particular. Of course, 'an eye for an eye' is definitely in Judaism, sort of as best practise. But 'love your neighbour' is from Leviticus (the Golden Rule's first mention).

5. Judaism and Islam both concentrate more on the earthly existence, whereas Christianity's focus and hopes lie in the hereafter, eternal life in heaven.

Is this really true about Islam? It's true about Judaism, for sure.

6. Christians can have a intimate, personal relationship with God, whereas in both Judaism and Islam the concept of "God" is more distant.

I think this is highly dependent on how you look at it. In all three religions (definitely Judaism and Christianity) you are encouraged to open a personal dialogue with God (even if it's one-way). I was encouraged to pray personally and in English to God during prayers at school.

Phenix

01-04-2019, 02:19 PM

how is islam and judaism cult while christianity european? and most of the christians of the planet earth are not europeans

sure islam and judaism have some common basic grounds,like they view on God same way while christians have the trinty (which is a huge sin in both islam and judaism)

Most of the beliefs, rituals, and celebrations in Christianity are of pagan European essence; trinity adoration streams from an Proto-Indo-European cult of the sun; and all the five major episcopal sees were all European lands at that time; most church fathers were Europeans, and new testament was written in Koine Greek; besides that most of the Christendom was concentrated in Europe until very lately following colonization of Africa and Americas.

Loki

01-04-2019, 02:29 PM

You could make the other argument: Judaism does not require non-Jews to become Jews in order to go to Heaven. Judaism's God will not automatically condemn you for anything in particular.

Yes, Judaism's god is nation-specific, whereas the Christian God is God of all creation, and all humans will be judged by him one day.

I think this is highly dependent on how you look at it. In all three religions (definitely Judaism and Christianity) you are encouraged to open a personal dialogue with God (even if it's one-way). I was encouraged to pray personally and in English to God during prayers at school.

Yes, but I'm not merely talking about personal dialogue. In Christianity we go further than that, i.e. having fellowship with God; being in his presence. We believe that -- like the Israelite high priest came in the presence of God in the tabernacle's holy of holies of the Old Testament era, we Christians can experience that manifest holy presence of God, and actually further than that, can be indwelled by God's presence through the Holy Spirit. The Christian's body literally becomes the temple of God that contains God's presence.

Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda

01-04-2019, 03:24 PM

5. Judaism and Islam both concentrate more on the earthly existence, whereas Christianity's focus and hopes lie in the hereafter, eternal life in heaven.
In this point, Islam is similar to Christianity.

Pandur

01-04-2019, 03:25 PM

Christianity and Islam are barely comparable to modern Talmudic Judaism.

Loki

01-04-2019, 03:43 PM

Most of the beliefs, rituals, and celebrations in Christianity are of pagan European essence;

Nonsense. Don't be ridiculous. Your knowledge about Christianity is very lacking.

trinity adoration streams from an Proto-Indo-European cult of the sun;

No it doesn't.

and all the five major episcopal sees were all European lands at that time;

So?

most church fathers were Europeans,

Irrelevant

and new testament was written in Koine Greek;

So what?

besides that most of the Christendom was concentrated in Europe until very lately following colonization of Africa and Americas.

And? None of these points you mention have anything to do with "pagan European". European, perhaps. But only in a certain sense. Christianity's beliefs are universal, but it had its origin in the ancient religion of Israel.

Dragoon

01-04-2019, 04:08 PM

I do not agree,Christianity is heavily influenced by European pagan beliefs.

Islam is more closer than its Semitic roots,so it is closer to Judaism.

Indeed. Catholics, Orthodox and also the Protestants. Worship on Sunday? Celebrate Christmas on 25?, much symbolism.

The Christian Protestant groups which tried to remove many of those became more Judaism like. And thats where Christianity in Early America (Pilgrims) led to.

Insuperable

01-04-2019, 04:10 PM

Pisslam is closer to Judaism from an atheistic point of view.

Loki

01-04-2019, 04:25 PM

Indeed. Catholics, Orthodox and also the Protestants. Worship on Sunday? Celebrate Christmas on 25?, much symbolism.

The Christian Protestant groups which tried to remove many of those became more Judaism like. And thats where Christianity in Early America (Pilgrims) led to.

Whoah... hang on here, we are only talking about a few irrelevant things like Christmas. But Christmas is not part of the Christian faith, it's just a cultural celebration based on a Christian theme. It has no influence on Christian dogma or beliefs.

StonyArabia

01-04-2019, 04:31 PM

Islam is closer to Judaism. Protestant Christianity tried to be more Judaic in the past, especially the Puritan movement

Loki

01-04-2019, 04:35 PM

Islam is closer to Judaism

If by that you imply (as I think you are..) that Islam is somehow closer to the "original" faith and religion of the Israelites, then you are sadly mistaken. Judaism and Christianity share ancient scriptures in the Tanakh, the first five books of the Bible... whereas Islam does not agree with that, and their stories about the patriarchs vary from the Jewish and Christian traditions.

Protestant Christianity tried to be more Judaic in the past, especially the Puritan movement

No, they didn't.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas

01-04-2019, 04:51 PM

Islam is nothing more than a mere garbled copy\paste of Judaism and Christianity gone wrong and with an added twist of pure evil.

Methuselah

01-04-2019, 05:11 PM

All Abrahamic religions have similarities but i think that Islam is a bit closer to Judaism because it feels more old school. Many Jews and Muslims are Middle Eastern and they have more of that feeling in the game. Christians and Jews however tend to stick together in a modern world and they share exact same stories of the Old Testament if we leave Messianic prophecies aside. And that holy trinity thing which is usually misunderstood. Mohammed was quite clever to declare himself as a "bigger than Abraham" messiah since some people were still waiting for it to happen. But Jews didn't buy it. Not like Islam didn't spread. It did and it seems that many Muslims believe that they are chosen ones (through Ishmael) and should have Jerusalem and all the blessings. This is not very Biblical take but is nevertheless depicted in the Bible as a beef between Isaac and Ishmael/ Esau and Jacob.

By the way, i wonder if the Palestinian Arab identity will change one day after some DNA testing... I heard they are related to ancient Israeli tribes as well and not only Arabs.

Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda

01-04-2019, 05:48 PM

All Abrahamic religions have similarities but i think that Islam is a bit closer to Judaism because it feels more old school. Many Jews and Muslims are Middle Eastern and they have more of that feeling in the game. Christians and Jews however tend to stick together in a modern world and they share exact same stories of the Old Testament if we leave Messianic prophecies aside. And that holy trinity thing which is usually misunderstood. Mohammed was quite clever to declare himself as a "bigger than Abraham" messiah since some people were still waiting for it to happen. But Jews didn't buy it. Not like Islam didn't spread. It did and it seems that many Muslims believe that they are chosen ones (through Ishmael) and should have Jerusalem and all the blessings. This is not very Biblical take but is nevertheless depicted in the Bible as a beef between Isaac and Ishmael/ Esau and Jacob.

Yes, the Biblical relatedness between Hebrews and "Arabs" played a key role in the spread of Islam. Many Muslims still use Old Testament in order to justify that Islam is THE TRUTH: disappointed by Isaac's descendants behaviour, He would have chosen their cousins : Ismael's offspring.
The funniest thing is that several Muslims, even from non-Arab areas (Moroccans for example, Moroccan Berbers more precisely) identify with Ismael, believing he's their actual ancestor and that Jews are their "lost" (in the spiritual meaning) cousins.

Loki

01-04-2019, 05:57 PM

Yes, the Biblical relatedness between Hebrews and "Arabs" played a key role in the spread of Islam. Many Muslims still use Old Testament in order to justify that Islam is THE TRUTH: disappointed by Isaac's descendants behaviour, He would have chosen their cousins : Ismael's offspring.
The funniest thing is that several Muslims, even from non-Arab areas (Moroccans for example, Moroccan Berbers more precisely) identify with Ismael, believing he's their actual ancestor and that Jews are their "lost" (in the spiritual meaning) cousins.

But the matter of fact is that there is no real link between Ishmael and Islam, only imagined. Genetically Arabs may be descendants of Ishmael, but most Muslims are not Arabs these days! As far as the religion is concerned, Islam is not directly connected to the ancient Israelite religion. It is only in a pseudo way, and the religion of Islam does not even follow any books of the Bible, but it follows an entirely new book, the Quran, supposedly written by Mohammed, but its contents appear very corrupted from the supposedly ancestral parts in the Bible -- and the reason for that is, as I have pointed out before, the Quran plagiarized apocryphal writings instead of the canonical ones. If they had used canonical writings it might have been closer to the original thing. But it's not. And on top of that Mohammed added many other things, and Islam created its own history.

Phenix

01-04-2019, 07:21 PM

Nonsense. Don't be ridiculous. Your knowledge about Christianity is very lacking.

No it doesn't.

So?

Irrelevant

So what?

And? None of these points you mention have anything to do with "pagan European". European, perhaps. But only in a certain sense. Christianity's beliefs are universal, but it had its origin in the ancient religion of Israel.

You got it all wrong, I was answering Hureem Sultana on why Christianity is a European religion even if the affiliation is with ancient Israeli religion: Yahwism.

Mo123

01-11-2019, 07:37 AM

As a Jew converted to Christianity I can say that Judaism and Christianity differ in the most important thing: How can I become just before the Lord?
While in Judaism and Islam it depends mostly on your works, in Christianity (biggest exception might be Catholicism) it's the faith alone that justifies you!

Östsvensk

01-20-2019, 08:11 AM

Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda

01-20-2019, 09:41 AM

Jewish scholars criticize Christians for having made distortions of the Bible. On that basis, you must have never read the Quran if you give Islam for an answer. According to Muslims anyway, Jewish scriptures are corrupted so heavily that the ten commandments have been changed. It says that their commandments were what always applied to the Hebrews! The Quran has also removed some stories from the Jewish Bible, such as Daniel and the lion's den and Samson and Delilah. A Christian would know of them.

Oh, and the Quran doesn't wait until the second chapter to mention that the Jews killed Jesus.

The Quran doesn't claim that Jews killed Jesus :
"Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander, And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain"
(Chapter 4)

Östsvensk

01-20-2019, 10:18 AM

The Quran doesn't claim that Jews killed Jesus :
"Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander, And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain"
(Chapter 4)

If that is so, I will admit to having read it through too fast. In combination with seeing some Jew haters from Turkey saying it online...

Sacrificed Ram

01-20-2019, 10:44 AM

But the matter of fact is that there is no real link between Ishmael and Islam, only imagined. Genetically Arabs may be descendants of Ishmael, but most Muslims are not Arabs these days!

There is none affirmation in Christian Bible that arabs are descendants of Ishmael, it exist only in apocryphal/jewish literature and may used much currently with political purpose. Christians, mainly the protestant are currently very submisse to jewish interests, what makes them follow beliefs not present originally in the body of christianism. Some arabs themselves claim be descendants of the biblical character called Joktan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joktan), because of it they call themselves Qatanite Arabs, Qatan is Joktan in arab.

Loki

01-20-2019, 05:00 PM

Loki

01-20-2019, 05:04 PM

Jewish scholars criticize Christians for having made distortions of the Bible.

That's laughable, when it's actually the opposite.

Loki

01-20-2019, 05:07 PM

There is none affirmation in Christian Bible that arabs are descendants of Ishmael

Do you only believe what is written in the Bible? Tradition holds that they are descendants of Ishmael. Personally I don't care, it doesn't mean a thing, even if it was true. So what?

Christians, mainly the protestant are currently very submisse to jewish interests, what makes them follow beliefs not present originally in the body of christianism.

What are you talking about? The Vatican and the Jewish rabbis are big buddies. And what beliefs are you talking about? Sounds like you are just wanting to bash Protestants.

Tauromachos

01-20-2019, 05:39 PM

Here is an interesting video from Jerusalem ..average jews about who they consider to be more similar to them,i am suprised a majority of jews seem to see islam as closer to judaism than christianty ..i thought our hate for eachother would make us deny fact ?

Its not surprising that they do.
Judaism is essentialy different from Christianity and more similar to Islam

In Islam Jesus remains an important figure but is seen only as Prophet
In Judaism Jesus is not even seen as a Prophet

Without Jesus and his teaching transmitted via the Gospels of the New Testament,Christianity
doesn't exist.

Loki

01-20-2019, 06:37 PM

Its not surprising that they do.
Judaism is essentialy different from Christianity and more similar to Islam

In Islam Jesus remains an important figure but is seen only as Prophet
In Judaism Jesus is not even seen as a Prophet

Without Jesus and his teaching transmitted via the Gospels of the New Testament,Christianity
doesn't exist.

And perhaps it is important to remember that Rabbinic Judaism of today is in no way the same as the religion of the Jews during the time of Jesus and before then. Second Temple Judaism ended around 70AD. Hence, Judaism and Islam being similar does not mean Islam is "closer to the original" religion or something like that. Actually the opposite. The Christian Gospels are actually older than the Talmud, which is modern Judaism's core religious texts. And the New Testament manuscripts are even older than the Old Testament manuscripts used in the Hebrew Bible -- which use the Masoretic Text, dating from the 9th century!

Tauromachos

01-20-2019, 06:39 PM

And perhaps it is important to remember that Rabbinic Judaism of today is in no way the same as the religion of the Jews during the time of Jesus and before then. Second Temple Judaism ended around 70AD. Hence, Judaism and Islam being similar does not mean Islam is "closer to the original" religion or something like that. Actually the opposite. The Christian Gospels are actually older than the Talmud, which is modern Judaism's core religious texts.

Judaism is heavily influenced by the Talmud a collection of post biblical/torahic rabbincal teaching and advises

Similar to Islam which has the Hadiths

Eastern88

01-20-2019, 06:44 PM

Satanism

Sacrificed Ram

01-20-2019, 10:07 PM

Do you only believe what is written in the Bible?

Isn't me that claims "Sola Scriptura (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura)".

Loki

01-21-2019, 02:08 PM

Isn't me that claims "Sola Scriptura (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura)".

Then why are you using Sola Scriptura to prove a point?

Sacrificed Ram

01-21-2019, 08:45 PM

Then why are you using Sola Scriptura to prove a point?

Excuse me, sometimes I forget the cultural difference between us.

I was being ironic.

I'm claiming Sola Scriptura like protestants claim it, I'm criticizing protestants by adopt contents out of Holy Scriptures. I know for the catholics the Tradition of The Church has technically the same relevance as Bible itself.

Longbowman

01-25-2019, 07:50 PM

The Vatican is not exactly an ally of any rabbinic authority.

The Talmud is commentary, not core religious text,

The wording of the tanakh is not significantly different to those parts of the OT it mirrors.

Sacrificed Ram

01-25-2019, 08:51 PM

The wording of the tanakh is not significantly different to those parts of the OT it mirrors.

Catholic OT has some books written in greek that justify some after life concepts of catholics (like purgatory), Catholic OT is more based in Septuagint. Protestants claim roots in Tanakh for their OT, despite Tanakh was consolidated after the emergency of christianism, possibly in Council of Jamnia (end of 1st century).

Östsvensk

01-26-2019, 06:27 PM

PaleoEuropean

05-03-2019, 11:38 PM

There are two aspects to that, doctrine and cultural. You may find that Methodists and Reform Jews are quite similar in their notion of acceptance and openness. Doctrine wise it's hard to compare a lot of sects of Christianity with Judaism. Even Judaism and Islam have some fundamental differences such as Jesus being a prophet and the Messiah. I like to say Christianity is a Jewish reform religion and Islam is a Christian reform sect (more emphasis on monotheism and devoid of the trinity). All of them are connected but Judaism and Islam follow certain trends. 1. dietary laws 2. Food requirements 3. strict monotheism 4. Strict laws on idolitry. 5. Scheduled worship times (Jews pray 3 times a day, muslims 5). if you look past the religious similarities Christianity and Judaism in this day and age share a lot more cultural ties and their bond is much more formal. The rise of Islamism and other more extreme schools of thought have separated Islam and Judaism culturally. Religiously Christians are quite distinct due to the Roman Church's absorption and fusion with Pagans. If we are talking about Protestants than the divide starts to lessen a bit, Protestants purposely attempted to revert back to more strict views on things. Jews and Muslims also have books of law and interpretation, Hadith and the Talmud. Protestants solely rely on the bible and their pastors interpretation in most cases, they have no book of legal record and interpretation.

PaleoEuropean

05-03-2019, 11:46 PM

Israeli nationalists seem to affirm from my experience that the Christians in Israel are 'Israelis', or am I wrong? But the Christians there are Palestinian Arabs, are they not? Like Anis Shorrosh.

Forgive an ignorant for asking.

Jews of in Israel are pretty accepting of who is Israeli and who isn't. But Christians in Israel largely identify as Arab and Palestinian not Israeli. In some cases the Muslim community oddly identifies more as Israel such as the case of Bedouins.

Loki

05-04-2019, 01:19 AM

Modern Rabbinic Judaism is very different from the original Jewish religion that Christianity grew out of -- and is actually a younger religion than Christianity (few realise it). They added later Talmudic stuff, a great deal of it, and also rejected parts that were too uncomfortably close to showing Jesus as the Messiah, and close to early Christianity. Hence they made sure they corrupted some Old Testament texts in the Masoretic "tradition" (we are nowadays discovering what they had done... ). Thankfully we had an early Greek translation from the original Hebrew, in the Septuagint... as evidence how they tampered with stuff to try to erase Jesus from Old Testament prophecy. The Masoretic text that they tried to sell as as the "original" dates from the 9th century... :picard1: But God knows these things and provided for Christians. :)

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 10:57 AM

^Not really. The Ein Gedi texts (dead sea scrolls) show minimal changes (normally points of grammar) between texts from the 3rd century BC and today. Maybe you're referring to things like the classical Christian reading of words for 'maid' as 'virgin' but even if you read them that way, the Masoretic Text hasn't changed the word itself, you'd just be arguing that the word initially meant 'virgin' (hence the Septuagint's differing translation). Considering the emphasis placed on literacy in Judaism and the fact the entire TaNaKH is read aloud segment by segment to the entire community in its totality over the course of a year, it would be very difficult for (say) 3rd century Rabbis to edit it, as people would have picked up on it, in the same way that if you took away my copy of Ender's Game, changed a bunch of sentences and words, then gave it back to me to re-read, I'd pick up on that.

Obviously all religions evolve, including Christianity, Islam and Judaism, and Judaism had to react to the loss of the Temple, but the Talmud isn't an addition to canon, whereas the New Testament is. The most recent addition to Jewish canon isn't even the most recent addition to the Christian Old Testament, which includes Maccabees and others books written after the final redaction of the TaNaKH (Hebrew bible). I know it's tempting to claim seniority, so to speak, but even if Rabbinic Judaism were younger than Christianity, and it isn't - Jesus was a Rabbi (http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/199), we know Rabbis and their teachings predate Christianity, for sure, even if it did constitute a major evolution of the religion - there are non-Rabbinic variants of Judaism that are still extant. The major one, Karaism, claims an uninterrupted pedigree to the Sadduccees, but this is in doubt, in my eyes. The minor one, Samaritanism, is clearly older than Christianity, as it is referenced in the New Testament.

n the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”