Iraqi Italian spanish and portuguese gedmatch kits eurogenes k15

[Argentano]

Iraqi Italian spanish and portuguese gedmatch kits eurogenes k15

Used this iraqui kits

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?233942-Iraqi-GEDmatch-samples

In case anyone is interested

Edit: I think the fist iraqui is half euro

https://i.imgur.com/xWLoFiv.png

[Argentano]

The difference in italy is the northern italians vs southern italians

[Sikeliot]

The South Italians look halfway between the Iraqis and the Iberians.

[Damião de Góis]

What's with the last spanish kits? Big chunk of south asian.

[Leto]

What's with the last spanish kits? Big chunk of south asian.
And black admixture over 10% (4 individuals).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Iberian results are consistent and homogeneous, in particular the Portuguese. The Spaniards have more outliers, the first two or three samples belong probably to Basque individuals and the last Spanish samples I am inclined to believe that they are either Cannarians, Ceutí, Melillense or Gypsies. If we exclude those samples there's little to no difference among Iberians.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Also worth noticing that nearly all Portuguese and Spanish samples have higher combined levels of North Sea\Atlantic\Baltic\Eastern Euro\West Med (the blue colours) than any Italian sample, be it either from North or the South. I was expecting to see some North Italians having it higher or at least on pair but that doesn't seem to be the case on this samples at least.

[Argentano]

And black admixture over 10% (4 individuals).


What's with the last spanish kits? Big chunk of south asian.



I think those last spanish kits with weird result are ancient kits. Litvin added them and i couldnt filter them in this charts but dont pay attention to those kits. Notice the other kits are quite homogeneous

[zarzian]

Quite a significant SSA component in Iberia, interesting.

[Argentano]

Quite high SSA in Iberia, interesting.

I think those last spanish kits with weird result are ancient kits. Litvin added them and i couldnt filter them in this charts but dont pay attention to those kits. Notice the other kits are quite homogeneous

[StonyArabia]

Quite a significant SSA component in Iberia, interesting.

It might have come from the Moors as proxy, and as well the slave trade. Portugal seems to have the most SSA in Europe, but also it makes sense Iberia is not that far from Africa

[zarzian]

It might have come from the Moors as proxy, and as well the slave trade. Portugal seems to have the most SSA in Europe, but also it makes sense Iberia is not that far from Africa

I don’t buy the slave trade excuse, the English and French traded slaves yet they don’t have SSA. The Moor angle is more parsimonious.

[Peterski]

I think those last spanish kits with weird result are ancient kits. Litvin added them and i couldnt filter them in this charts but dont pay attention to those kits. Notice the other kits are quite homogeneous

The ones with high South Asian are modern Gitanos from Spain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitanos

[Argentano]

The ones with South Asian are modern Gitanos from Spain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitanos

ohh right youd added gypsies!! thanks for explaining this i forgot about them. But i remember you added some ancient spanish kits too. Those are the ones with high ssa?

[Sikeliot]

I don’t buy the slave trade excuse, the English and French traded slaves yet they don’t have SSA. The Moor angle is more parsimonious.

Iberia was the only part of Europe which imported SSA slaves onto its own shores. The highest is in Madeira, Portugal.

[Cristiano viejo]

Iberia was the only part of Europe which imported SSA slaves onto its own shores. The highest is in Madeira, Portugal.

No. Absolutely false. Roma already did many centuries ago and France and UK imported thousands of slaves too. Study a bit before talking.

[Vasconcelos]

I've published my results here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?269715-Vasconcelos-results-bucket), you can add them to the list if you want


edit: I'll just copy them to make it easier


# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2



Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 4.45
2 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.61
3 Spanish_Andalucia 5.38
4 Spanish_Valencia 5.44
5 Spanish_Cantabria 6.26
6 Southwest_French 6.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.79
8 Spanish_Murcia 6.97
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.52
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.57
11 Portuguese 9.21
12 Spanish_Galicia 11.07
13 French_Basque 11.99
14 North_Italian 13.12
15 French 16.21
16 Tuscan 18.39
17 South_Dutch 19.97
18 Southwest_English 22.85
19 Austrian 22.88
20 Serbian 23.22

[Damião de Góis]

ohh right youd added gypsies!! thanks for explaining this i forgot about them. But i remember you added some ancient spanish kits too. Those are the ones with high ssa?

Ancient samples avaliable are from the bronze age. From what i've seen they range from pseudo basque to pseudo sardinian and have few components:

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 43
2 West_Med 39.65
3 North_Sea 17.28
4 Baltic 0.06


# Population Percent
1 West_Med 50.67
2 Atlantic 29.69
3 North_Sea 13.54
4 Red_Sea 5.03
5 Sub-Saharan 1.08

So they can't be the last ones.

[Argentano]

I've published my results here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?269715-Vasconcelos-results-bucket), you can add them to the list if you want


edit: I'll just copy them to make it easier


# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 34.66
2 West_Med 22.82
3 North_Sea 15.44
4 East_Med 9.05
5 Baltic 6.16
6 Red_Sea 4.62
7 Northeast_African 2.9
8 Eastern_Euro 2.17
9 Sub-Saharan 1.05
10 Siberian 0.5
11 West_Asian 0.43
12 Southeast_Asian 0.2



Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Spanish_Aragon 4.45
2 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.61
3 Spanish_Andalucia 5.38
4 Spanish_Valencia 5.44
5 Spanish_Cantabria 6.26
6 Southwest_French 6.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.79
8 Spanish_Murcia 6.97
9 Spanish_Extremadura 7.52
10 Spanish_Cataluna 8.57
11 Portuguese 9.21
12 Spanish_Galicia 11.07
13 French_Basque 11.99
14 North_Italian 13.12
15 French 16.21
16 Tuscan 18.39
17 South_Dutch 19.97
18 Southwest_English 22.85
19 Austrian 22.88
20 Serbian 23.22

Thanks i will add you. Can i know region of birth? province/state ?

[Argentano]

Ancient samples avaliable are from the bronze age. From what i've seen to range from pseudo basque to pseudo sardinian and have few components:

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 43
2 West_Med 39.65
3 North_Sea 17.28
4 Baltic 0.06


# Population Percent
1 West_Med 50.67
2 Atlantic 29.69
3 North_Sea 13.54
4 Red_Sea 5.03
5 Sub-Saharan 1.08

So they can't be the last ones.

it seems the ones with high south asian are gypsies


The ones with high South Asian are modern Gitanos from Spain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitanos

But werent there some weird iberian ancient kits?

[Vasconcelos]

Thanks i will add you. Can i know region of birth? province/state ?

It's in my info, I'm around 75% from Viseu and 25% from Porto, although pending further genealogical investigation. There might be ancestry from Bragança or Vila Real within the Viseu share.
Paternal side is from a very specific area in Viseu since at least around 1700 (Mangualde, Penalva)

[Damião de Góis]

Argentano do you have regional info for all those portuguese samples?

[Argentano]

Argentano do you have regional info for all those portuguese samples?

i think for around half

Edit: Anyways, arent they all scoring almost the same?

[Vasconcelos]

i think for around half

Edit: Anyways, arent they all scoring almost the same?

From my limited experience it seems regional variation is mostly irrelevant

[Argentano]

From my limited experience it seems regional variation is mostly irrelevant

yes portuguese and spanish score very homogeneously. Italy is different because you do have regional variations like north vs south

Well basques do score different but its just one small region

[Sikeliot]

No. Absolutely false. Roma already did many centuries ago and France and UK imported thousands of slaves too. Study a bit before talking.

It is documented that 10% of Madeira's population was African slaves, which were absorbed into the population in the late 1700s and 1800s.

[Damião de Góis]

i think for around half

Edit: Anyways, arent they all scoring almost the same?

More or less, but i'm interested in region info since there is none on Dodecad or Eurogenes. Would be interesting to see if there are any patterns.

[Vasconcelos]

More or less, but i'm interested in region info since there is none on Dodecad or Eurogenes. Would be interesting to see if there are any patterns.

The statistical differences are too small to be relevant. The overlap within Portuguese regions is immense. Heck, It's even hard to distinguish Portuguese from Spanish (at least a good chunk of them) in the first place. Just ask the creator of nMonte, Ger Huijbregts, if you want

[Damião de Góis]

The statistical differences are too small to be relevant. The overlap within Portuguese regions is immense. Heck, It's even hard to distinguish Portuguese from Spanish (at least a good chunk of them) in the first place. Just ask the creator of nMonte, Ger Huijbregts, if you want

Maybe, but the thing is that we don't have the info to see that. For example Portuguese_D on Dodecad has people from all over the place including islanders yet it's only one sample.

[Cristiano viejo]

It is documented that 10% of Madeira's population was African slaves, which were absorbed into the population in the late 1700s and 1800s.
Yeah, because as everybody know slaves had long lifes and they could procreate freely with their bosses and masters with no problems, instead of having hard lifes working in the field, etc etc :rolleyes:

[Urbanuss]

Quite a significant SSA component in Iberia, interesting.

That's a questionable """SSA""" whereas the Iberomaurisians were not part SSA, but North Africans.

[Urbanuss]

It might have come from the Moors as proxy, and as well the slave trade. Portugal seems to have the most SSA in Europe, but also it makes sense Iberia is not that far from Africa


Neither one