Classify another Baltic looking Tatar girl

[meiliren]

https://ilarge.lisimg.com/image/5243299/1100full-diana-farkhullina.jpg
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/1005/15/9a5345469c79.jpg
http://art-assorty.ru/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Модель-Диана-Фархуллина.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h53hNDfBoOc/UqDhlUwzwiI/AAAAAAAASWQ/BGPUuo-oq7U/s1600/1.jpg
https://images.fashionmodeldirectory.com/model/000000321039-diana_farkhullina-fit.jpg

[meiliren]

Bump.

[Tellerin]

Gorid

[meiliren]

Gorid

Isn't she textbook Coo's East Baltic?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-W0402-504%2C_Generaloberst_Werner_von_Blomberg.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-W0402-504%2C_Generaloberst_Werner_von_Blomberg.jpg

[Blondie]

Dude you are tatar maniac :D
Yes she is baltid :)

[meiliren]

Gorid is fake type.

[meiliren]

Dude you are tatar maniac :D
Yes she is baltid :)

Yes, she is Baltic.

This type is very common among Tatar girls even more than among some South Slavs.

[The Blade]

There are not many real Tatars in modern Russia.
People you erroneously (and intentionally) call "Tatars" call themselves "Bugari" and are descendants mainly of ancient Bulgars.
They are Volga Bulgarians.

[meiliren]

There are not many real Tatars in modern Russia.
People you erroneously (and intentionally) call "Tatars" call themselves "Bugari" and are descendants mainly of ancient Bulgars.
They are Volga Bulgarians.

Wut?

[The Blade]

Wut?
Yes, Tatar is an imperialist term that became (in its present meaning) popular in the USSR under Lenin.

"The present territory of Tatarstan was inhabited by the Volga Bulgars, who settled on the Volga river in the 7th century AD and converted to Islam in 922 during the missionary work of Ahmad ibn Fadlan. After the Mongol invasion, Volga Bulgaria was annexed by the Golden Horde. Most of the population survived, and there may have been a certain degree of mixing between it and the Kipchaks of the Horde during the ensuing period. The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century.

Some Volga Tatars speak different dialects of Tatar language. Therefore, they form distinct groups such as the Mişär group and the Qasim group. Mişär-Tatars (or Mishars) are a group of Tatars speaking a dialect of the Tatar language. They live in Chelyabinsk, Tambov, Penza, Ryazan, Nizhegorodskaya oblasts of Russia and in Bashkortostan and Mordovia. They lived near and along the Volga River, in Tatarstan. The Western Tatars have their capital in the town of Qasím (Kasimov in Russian transcription) in Ryazan Oblast, with a Tatar population of 1100. A minority of Christianized Volga Tatars are known as Keräşens.

The Volga Tatars used the Turkic Old Tatar language for their literature between the 15th and 19th centuries. It was written in the İske imlâ variant of the Arabic script, but actual spelling varied regionally. The older literary language included a large number of Arabic and Persian loanwords. The modern literary language, however, often uses Russian and other European-derived words instead.

Outside of Tatarstan, urban Tatars usually speak Russian as their first language (in cities such as Moscow, Saint-Petersburg, Nizhniy Novgorod, Tashkent, Almaty, and cities of the Ural and western Siberia) and other languages in a worldwide diaspora.


In the 1910s the Volga Tatars numbered about half a million in the Kazan Governorate in Tatarstan, their historical homeland, about 400,000 in each of the governments of Ufa, 100,000 in Samara and Simbirsk, and about 30,000 in Vyatka, Saratov, Tambov, Penza, Nizhny Novgorod, Perm and Orenburg. An additional 15,000 had migrated to Ryazan or were settled as prisoners in the 16th and 17th centuries in Lithuania (Vilnius, Grodno and Podolia). An additional 2000 resided in St. Petersburg.

Most Kazan Tatars practice Sunni Islam. The Kazan Tatars speak the Tatar language, a Turkic language with a substantial amount of Russian and Arabic loanwords.

Before 1917, polygamy was practiced only by the wealthier classes and was a waning institution.

There is an ethnic nationalist movement among Kazan Tatars that stresses descent from the Bulgars and is known as Bulgarism – there have been graffiti on the walls in the streets of Kazan with phrases such as "Bulgaria is alive" (Булгария жива)

A significant number of Volga Tatars emigrated during the Russian Civil War, mostly to Turkey and Harbin, China. According to the Chinese government, there are still 5,100 Tatars living in Xinjiang province."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Volga_Tatars

[meiliren]

@The Blade
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Stop spreading your nonsense around here.
You're a complete zero not only in anthropology but in history.

[Viridian1]

Does she have any baltic influence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJZ4V92VnQ

[The Blade]

@The Blade
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Stop spreading your nonsense around here.
You're a complete zero not only in anthropology but in history.
Fuck off, idiot!
I told you and your friend Krivich: I have an actual master's degree in history from a university - a place you can only dream of being part of judging by the quality of your posts.
Also, you know nothing about anthropology, works of authors you quote and quote them only when it suits you ignoring facts they wrote you don't like.
The only zero here is you and I don't know why they haven't banned you yet.

[Harkonnen]

Fuck off Blade you disgusting Gyppo

[Joso]

Baltid

[The Blade]

Fuck off Blade you disgusting Gyppo
Suck my dick, Uralic cunt!
And I'm not a Gypo, unlike the original poster, by the way.

[Harkonnen]

You fucking piece of shit fag gyppo

[Harkonnen]

There are not many real Tatars in modern Russia.
People you erroneously (and intentionally) call "Tatars" call themselves "Bugari" and are descendants mainly of ancient Bulgars.
They are Volga Bulgarians.

Are you trying to claim there some fucking Bulgarians there, or whatthehell is your point.

[meiliren]

Fuck off, idiot!
I told you and your friend Krivich: I have an actual master's degree in history from a university - a place you can only dream of being part of judging by the quality of your posts.
Also, you know nothing about anthropology, works of authors you quote and quote them only when it suits you ignoring facts they wrote you don't like.
The only zero here is you and I don't know why they haven't banned you yet.

You are just zero in everything.


Go and learn real history not myths.

https://www.tataroved.ru

[meiliren]

English version.

https://www.tataroved.ru/en/

[Viridian1]

Guys stop it.

[The Blade]

You are just zero in everything.


Go and learn real history not myths.

https://www.tataroved.ru
These are not myths but facts, not your Lenin manipulation of history.

[meiliren]

Famous Tatar historian Rafael Hakimov(not Bulgarian pseudo historian The Blade) about "Bulgarians".

https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/77295

[The Blade]

Are you trying to claim there some fucking Bulgarians there, or whatthehell is your point.
I provided the original poster with information needed.
Ahmad ibn Fadlan also visited Volga Bulgaria:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan

[Harkonnen]

Just stay in your fucking Bulgaria, you fucking gyppo cunt. I'm just so fucking fed up with your bullshit.

[The Blade]

Just stay in your fucking Bulgaria, you fucking gyppo cunt. I'm just so fucking fed up with your bullshit.
Feeling is mutual.

[The Blade]

Famous Tatar historian Rafael Hakimov(not Bulgarian pseudo historian The Blade) about "Bulgarians".

https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/77295
I'm not interested in what a 21st century commie betrayer has to say.

[meiliren]

These are not myths but facts, not your Lenin manipulation of history.


There is book "Перепись 1897 года и татары Казанской губернии"

"The census 1897 y in Kazan Governorate".

You can find out what the Tatars really called themselves.

[Tellerin]

Isn't she textbook Coo's East Baltic?


Isn't her eye-eyebrows distance Alpine ?

[meiliren]

I provided the original poster with information needed.
Ahmad ibn Fadlan also visited Volga Bulgaria:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan

Do you know what the people of Bulgaria called themselves?

[meiliren]

Show me the source where we learn that the population of Bulgaria called themselves "Bulgars".

[meiliren]

We do not know what the people of Bulgaria really called themselves.

We have no such sources.

[The Blade]

Do you know what the people of Bulgaria called themselves?
They called themselves Bugari. Tatar is a term that was first used as a reference to a completely different tribe of Mongoloid stock.
Although used earlier it didn't become popular in its current and fake meaning Volga Bulgarians don't care about until Lenin and the communist revolution.

[Harkonnen]

I don't know what the hell you are on about. Those Bulgars who gave name to modern Bulgaria definitely were Turks/Tatars from Volga.

[The Blade]

I don't know what the hell you are on about. Those Bulgars who gave name to modern Bulgaria definitely were Turks/Tatars from Volga.
For once your logic tells you something.
Volga Bulgarians, ancient Bulgars and modern Danube Bulgarians have a lot in common.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/VolgaBulgaria.jpg

[Harkonnen]

For once your logic tells you something.
Volga Bulgarians, ancient Bulgars and modern Danube Bulgarians have a lot in common.

I'm pretty confident Volga Bulgarians were similar to Volga Tatars and don't have much to do with modern Bulgarians.

[meiliren]

They called themselves Bugari. Tatar is a term that was first used as a reference to a completely different tribe of Mongoloid stock.
Although used earlier it didn't become popular in its current and fake meaning Volga Bulgarians don't care about until Lenin and the communist revolution.

Source?

When the Russians in 1552 conquered the Khanate of Kazan they found Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and Muslim population which was the ruling class in Khanate of Kazan.

Chuvash, Mari and Udmurts were the main population of the the Khanate of Kazan.

Source

Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов

Where did the "Bulgars" go?

[Rumata]

Bring up her lineage or she's not a Tatar :)

[meiliren]

Just learn it and find me "Bulgars".

Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов

http://сувары.рф/en/book/export/html/354

[meiliren]

Bring up her lineage or she's not a Tatar :)

Yes she is Tatar.

[The Blade]

Source?

When the Russians in 1552 conquered the Khanate of Kazan they found Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and Muslim population which was the ruling class in Khanate of Kazan.

Chuvash, Mari and Udmurts were the main population of the the Khanate of Kazan.

Source

Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов

Where did the "Bulgars" go?
Just how dumb you must be to ask this after quote I posted on page 1?
Anyway, Ahmad ibn Fadlan:
"One noteworthy aspect of the Volga Bulgars that Ibn Fadlan focused on was their religion and the institution of Islam in these territories. The Bulgar king had invited religious instruction as a gesture of homage to the Abbasids in exchange for financial and military support, and Ibn Fadlan's mission as a faqih was one of proselytization as well as diplomacy.

For example, Ibn Fadlan details in his encounter that the Volga Bulgar Khan commits an error in his prayer exhortations by repeating the prayer twice. One scholar calls it an “illuminating episode” in the text where Ibn Fadlan expresses his great anger and disgust over the fact that the Khan and the Volga Bulgars in general are practicing some form of imperfect and doctrinally unsound Islam. In general, Ibn Fadlan recognized and judged the peoples of central Eurasia he encountered by the possession and practice of Islam, along with their efforts put forth to utilize, implement, and foster Islamic faith and social practice in their respective society. Consequently, many of the peoples and societies to Ibn Fadlan were "like asses gone astray. They have no religious bonds with God, nor do they have recourse to reason.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Source?

When the Russians in 1552 conquered the Khanate of Kazan they found Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and Muslim population which was the ruling class in Khanate of Kazan.

Chuvash, Mari and Udmurts were the main population of the the Khanate of Kazan.

Source

Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов

Where did the "Bulgars" go?

chuvash are volga bugars

One is that they originated from a mixing between the Turkic Sabir tribes of Volga Bulgaria and also according to some researches with local Finno-Ugric populations.[15]
According to another theory, the Chuvash may be descended from the Volga Bulgars.[16]

Chuvash is classified, alongside the extinct Bulgar language, as the only remaining member of the Oghuric branch of the Turkic language family.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_people
man, you can find anything on wikipedia in less than 5 minutes

[meiliren]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/VolgaBulgaria.jpg

And so?

They were called Bulgars by other nations.

We don't know what they called themselves.

But we know one thing.

When the Russians conquered the Khanate of Kazan they found no "Bulgars" there.

[Harkonnen]

You mean it was exoethnomym.

[Rumata]

Yes she is Tatar.

If you wish to think so... but there's no evidence so far :)

[meiliren]

chuvash are volga bugars

One is that they originated from a mixing between the Turkic Sabir tribes of Volga Bulgaria and also according to some researches with local Finno-Ugric populations.[15]
According to another theory, the Chuvash may be descended from the Volga Bulgars.[16]

Chuvash is classified, alongside the extinct Bulgar language, as the only remaining member of the Oghuric branch of the Turkic language family.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_people
man, you can find anything on wikipedia in less than 5 minutes

Chuvash lived in Volga Bulgaria it is a fact.

Called themselves Chuvash ever Bulgars?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Chuvash lived in Volga Bulgaria it is a fact.

Called themselves Chuvash ever Bulgars?

lol like i know
article mention chuvash might descend from volga bulgars and similarity of languages, nothing more

[meiliren]

You mean it was exoethnomym.

"Bulgar" like "Russian".

Foreigners call the entire population of Russia "Russian" but in fact in Russia there are many different peoples.

In Volga Bulgaria lived Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and Muslim population (the ancestors of modern ) Tatars.

But we have no facts to say that there was people who called themselves Bulgars.

[meiliren]

Just how dumb you must be to ask this after quote I posted on page 1?
Anyway, Ahmad ibn Fadlan:
"One noteworthy aspect of the Volga Bulgars that Ibn Fadlan focused on was their religion and the institution of Islam in these territories. The Bulgar king had invited religious instruction as a gesture of homage to the Abbasids in exchange for financial and military support, and Ibn Fadlan's mission as a faqih was one of proselytization as well as diplomacy.

For example, Ibn Fadlan details in his encounter that the Volga Bulgar Khan commits an error in his prayer exhortations by repeating the prayer twice. One scholar calls it an “illuminating episode” in the text where Ibn Fadlan expresses his great anger and disgust over the fact that the Khan and the Volga Bulgars in general are practicing some form of imperfect and doctrinally unsound Islam. In general, Ibn Fadlan recognized and judged the peoples of central Eurasia he encountered by the possession and practice of Islam, along with their efforts put forth to utilize, implement, and foster Islamic faith and social practice in their respective society. Consequently, many of the peoples and societies to Ibn Fadlan were "like asses gone astray. They have no religious bonds with God, nor do they have recourse to reason.""
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan

We have

"Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов"

"Писцовая книга" is like census.

We have

"Перепись 1897 года и татары Казанской губернии"

"The census 1897 y in Kazan Governorate".

Just show me "Bulgars" in these books and I will say you're right.

[The Blade]

And so?

They were called Bulgars by other nations.

We don't know what they called themselves.

But we know one thing.

When the Russians conquered the Khanate of Kazan they found no "Bulgars" there.
You are an unsavable case.
"Bulgars" is a name they used for themselves. Foreigners started using it as a reference to them after learning it from actual Bulgars.
And how do you think there were no Bulgars when still many of them use the term, as my quote on page 1 shows? Others differentiate themselves from Russians using Islam as a determinator.

"The present territory of Tatarstan was inhabited by the Volga Bulgars, who settled on the Volga river in the 7th century AD and converted to Islam in 922 during the missionary work of Ahmad ibn Fadlan. After the Mongol invasion, Volga Bulgaria was annexed by the Golden Horde. Most of the population survived, and there may have been a certain degree of mixing between it and the Kipchaks of the Horde during the ensuing period. The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century.

Some Volga Tatars speak different dialects of Tatar language. Therefore, they form distinct groups such as the Mişär group and the Qasim group. Mişär-Tatars (or Mishars) are a group of Tatars speaking a dialect of the Tatar language. They live in Chelyabinsk, Tambov, Penza, Ryazan, Nizhegorodskaya oblasts of Russia and in Bashkortostan and Mordovia. They lived near and along the Volga River, in Tatarstan. The Western Tatars have their capital in the town of Qasím (Kasimov in Russian transcription) in Ryazan Oblast, with a Tatar population of 1100. A minority of Christianized Volga Tatars are known as Keräşens.

The Volga Tatars used the Turkic Old Tatar language for their literature between the 15th and 19th centuries. It was written in the İske imlâ variant of the Arabic script, but actual spelling varied regionally. The older literary language included a large number of Arabic and Persian loanwords. The modern literary language, however, often uses Russian and other European-derived words instead.

Outside of Tatarstan, urban Tatars usually speak Russian as their first language (in cities such as Moscow, Saint-Petersburg, Nizhniy Novgorod, Tashkent, Almaty, and cities of the Ural and western Siberia) and other languages in a worldwide diaspora.


In the 1910s the Volga Tatars numbered about half a million in the Kazan Governorate in Tatarstan, their historical homeland, about 400,000 in each of the governments of Ufa, 100,000 in Samara and Simbirsk, and about 30,000 in Vyatka, Saratov, Tambov, Penza, Nizhny Novgorod, Perm and Orenburg. An additional 15,000 had migrated to Ryazan or were settled as prisoners in the 16th and 17th centuries in Lithuania (Vilnius, Grodno and Podolia). An additional 2000 resided in St. Petersburg.

Most Kazan Tatars practice Sunni Islam. The Kazan Tatars speak the Tatar language, a Turkic language with a substantial amount of Russian and Arabic loanwords.

Before 1917, polygamy was practiced only by the wealthier classes and was a waning institution.

There is an ethnic nationalist movement among Kazan Tatars that stresses descent from the Bulgars and is known as Bulgarism – there have been graffiti on the walls in the streets of Kazan with phrases such as "Bulgaria is alive" (Булгария жива)

A significant number of Volga Tatars emigrated during the Russian Civil War, mostly to Turkey and Harbin, China. According to the Chinese government, there are still 5,100 Tatars living in Xinjiang province."

[meiliren]

Before 1917, polygamy was practiced only by the wealthier classes and was a waning institution.

There is an ethnic nationalist movement among Kazan Tatars that stresses descent from the Bulgars and is known as Bulgarism – there have been graffiti on the walls in the streets of Kazan with phrases such as "Bulgaria is alive" (Булгария жива)

A significant number of Volga Tatars emigrated during the Russian Civil War, mostly to Turkey and Harbin, China. According to the Chinese government, there are still 5,100 Tatars living in Xinjiang province."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wäisi_movement

[The Blade]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wäisi_movement
I see nothing but communists oppressing national identity, as usual.
The whole concept of the USSR was like that.

[meiliren]

If you're a historian you have to work with documentary sources.

There are many sources in Russian.

[Harkonnen]

I see nothing but communists oppressing national identity, as usual.
The whole concept of the USSR was like that.

Dude you are the little shithead here who does nothing else than oppress national identity.

[Harkonnen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_Paganism

[The Blade]

"Bulgar" like "Russian".

Foreigners call the entire population of Russia "Russian" but in fact in Russia there are many different peoples.

In Volga Bulgaria lived Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and Muslim population (the ancestors of modern ) Tatars.

But we have no facts to say that there was people who called themselves Bulgars.
And why are real Russians (not the minorities which are just Russian citizens) called like that?
Because their ancestors were Rus people.
"Bulgars'' and "Rus" are actual names, not like "Albanians" who in fact call themselves "Shqiptarë".

[meiliren]

I see nothing but communists oppressing national identity, as usual.
The whole concept of the USSR was like that.

Go to any Tatar forum and tell them that they are "Bulgars".

I promise you you'll be banned in five seconds.

[meiliren]

And why are real Russians (not the minorities which are just Russian citizens) called like that?
Because their ancestors were Rus people.
"Bulgars'' and "Rus" are actual names, not like "Albanians" who in fact call themselves "Shqiptarë".

Again.

Do you have any sources where we learn how to actually call themselves the inhabitants of Bulgaria?

[The Blade]

It's impossible to convince a dickhead in anything.

[meiliren]

Tatars never called themselves Bulgars.

[meiliren]

I see nothing but communists oppressing national identity, as usual.
The whole concept of the USSR was like that.

"The census 1897 y in Kazan Governorate".

https://www.tataroved.ru/publication/tprobl/10

There was still no Lenin and Communists.

Just show me "Bulgars" in these books and I will say you're right.

[meiliren]

Isn't her eye-eyebrows distance Alpine ?


She is 100% Coon's textbook East Baltic.

Alpine is very rare among East Slavs.

[The Blade]

Tatars never called themselves Bulgars.
What further evidence do you want?
"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims)."
"Tatars" is an exonym, a name they were called by others.
The name they kept using is their actual one - Bulgars. Point.
In Russia there wasn't until recently a possibility to mark yourself as Bulgarian in a census even nowadays.
Do you think I don't know that?
And yet, people want a republic of their own:
https://frognews.bg/novini/treta-republika-rusiia-poiska-kazva-balgariia.html
"Чувашите определят себе си като потомци на древните Българи и като част от една от Българските държави, имала статут на империя. Република Чувашия е част oт Руската федерация и граничи с друга държава, в която също жителите искат да бъдат официално признати за Българи. Чувашия е част от древната империя, съществувала под името Велика България, която днес познаваме като Волжко-Камска България или Волжка България, пишат руски медии."
Basically, Chuvash people consider themselves descendants of ancient Bulgars and want to be recognized as such.
"Република Татарстан също е част от тази бивша империя. Тамошните Българи, които са били подложени на изтребление и разселване са били насилствено преименувани на “татари”. През XX век републиката е просъществувала за две години под името Булгарлък."
It's clearly said "Tatars" was a name Volga Bulgarians were violently forced to accept. For 2 years there was even a country named Bulgarlak.

[meiliren]

What further evidence do you want?
"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims)."
"Tatars" is an exonym, a name they were called by others.
The name they kept using is their actual one - Bulgars. Point.
In Russia there wasn't until recently a possibility to mark yourself as Bulgarian in a census even nowadays.
Do you think I don't know that?
And yet, people want a republic of their own:
https://frognews.bg/novini/treta-republika-rusiia-poiska-kazva-balgariia.html
"Чувашите определят себе си като потомци на древните Българи и като част от една от Българските държави, имала статут на империя. Република Чувашия е част oт Руската федерация и граничи с друга държава, в която също жителите искат да бъдат официално признати за Българи. Чувашия е част от древната империя, съществувала под името Велика България, която днес познаваме като Волжко-Камска България или Волжка България, пишат руски медии."
Basically, Chuvash people consider themselves descendants of ancient Bulgars and want to be recognized as such.
"Република Татарстан също е част от тази бивша империя. Тамошните Българи, които са били подложени на изтребление и разселване са били насилствено преименувани на “татари”. През XX век републиката е просъществувала за две години под името Булгарлък."
It's clearly said "Tatars" was a name Volga Bulgarians were violently forced to accept. For 2 years there was even a country named Bulgarlak.

And again.

"The census 1897 y in Kazan Governorate".

https://www.tataroved.ru/publication/tprobl/10

There was still no Lenin and Communists.

Just show me "Bulgars" in these books and I will say you're right.

[meiliren]

"Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов"

1602-1603 years.

Just show me "Bulgars" and I will say you're right.

[meiliren]

The "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" contains information about the Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and the ruling Muslim class who called themselves Muslims.

But in "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" there is no information about the "Bulgars".

[The Blade]

The "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" contains information about the Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and the ruling Muslim class who called themselves Muslims.

But in "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" there is no information about the "Bulgars".

"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century."
Already clarified that on previous page.

[meiliren]

"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century."
Already clarified that on previous page.

"Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов"

1602-1603 years.

Just show me "Bulgars" and I will say you're right.

The "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" contains information about the Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and the ruling Muslim class who called themselves Muslims.

But in "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" there is no information about the "Bulgars".

[meiliren]

We have no documentary sources to claim that the Tatars ever called themselves Bulgars.

[meiliren]

"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century."
Already clarified that on previous page.

I can't understand.

You claimed that the Tatars called themselves Bulgars and only the Communists imposed them their present name.

Now you give a completely different information.

They called themselves Muslims, not Bulgars, right?

Why do the majority of Tatars called themselves Muslims?

Why didn't they call themselves Bulgars?

In the 19th century there were no Communists.

[Mingle]

There are not many real Tatars in modern Russia.
People you erroneously (and intentionally) call "Tatars" call themselves "Bugari" and are descendants mainly of ancient Bulgars.
They are Volga Bulgarians.

True. Tatars were originally a Mongol tribe and this word was applied later to Mongols as a whole. Nowadays the term is loosely applied to refer to a variety of different peoples. Even some Altai Turks call themselves Tatar now and the Azeris were called Mountain Tatars by the Soviets. The word Tatar is an alien word to the Volga region. The direct descendants of the Old Bulgars are the Volga Tatars, but they got Kipchakified after converting to Islam. The Chuvash speak the original Old Bulgar language but they are said to have Mari origins. Their Mari neighbors call the Chuvash Suasenmari which means "Chuvashified Mari".

[Mingle]

I can't understand.

You claimed that the Tatars called themselves Bulgars and only the Communists imposed them their present name.

Now you give a completely different information.

They called themselves Muslims, not Bulgars, right?

Why do the majority of Tatars called themselves Muslims?

Why didn't they call themselves Bulgars?

In the 19th century there were no Communists.

They originally identified as Bulgars and then later as Muslims. During the period that the majority of them identified as Muslims, a minority of them still continued to identify as Bulgar.

Then the Soviets came and they magically became Tatars.

[meiliren]

They originally identified as Bulgars and then later as Muslims. During the period that the majority of them identified as Muslims, a minority of them still continued to identify as Bulgar.

Then the Soviets came and they magically became Tatars.

Source?

[meiliren]

They originally identified as Bulgars and then later as Muslims. During the period that the majority of them identified as Muslims, a minority of them still continued to identify as Bulgar.

Then the Soviets came and they magically became Tatars.


The "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" contains information about the Chuvash, Mari, Udmurts and the ruling Muslim class who called themselves Muslims.

But in "Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" there is no information about the "Bulgars".


More information.

http://сувары.рф/en/book/export/html/354


Show me "Bulgars".

[Mingle]

Source?

"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century."

The word "persists" implies that it was used first before they started self-identifying as generic Muslims.

[meiliren]

"The group as a whole accepted the exonym "Tatars" (finally in the end of the 19th century; although the name Bulgars persisted in some places; the majority identified themselves simply as the Muslims) and the language of the Kipchaks; on the other hand, the invaders eventually converted to Islam. As the Horde disintegrated in the 15th century, the area became the territory of the Kazan khanate, which was ultimately conquered by Russia in the 16th century."

The word "persists" implies that it was used first before they started self-identifying as generic Muslims.

It is not the source.

We can only rely on documentary sources.

Documentary sources do not give any information that anyone in the Volga Bulgaria and later in the Kazan khanate called himself Bulgars.

"Писцовая книга Казанского уезда 1602—1603 годов" does not contain any information about the "Bulgars".

"The census 1897 y in Kazan Governorate" does not contain any information about the "Bulgars".

[Tellerin]

She is 100% Coon's textbook East Baltic.

Alpine is very rare among East Slavs.

I made compare .. she is Turanid

Borreby,East Baltid,Alpine,Turanid

http://media.snimka.bg/s1/6312/038867494.jpg

[Papastratosels26]

Baltid

[Harkonnen]

This girl looks mongoloid. People have just have very narrow idea what a mongoloid is. Mongoloids come in many shapes and forms. Essentially she's mongoloid yes.

[archangel]

Baltid

[The Blade]

I can't understand.

You claimed that the Tatars called themselves Bulgars and only the Communists imposed them their present name.

Now you give a completely different information.

They called themselves Muslims, not Bulgars, right?

Why do the majority of Tatars called themselves Muslims?

Why didn't they call themselves Bulgars?

In the 19th century there were no Communists.
Just how unwilling to accept the truth are you and how long do you intend to twist my words?
Text is pretty clear. They differentiate themselves from the term "Tatars" and from Russians, too, based on two things:
- their actual ancient name - Bugari/Bulgars. They still know their origins and use their name.
- religion - since Russians are Christians, Islam is another major point for differentiation between Volga Bulgarians and them. Islam is a part of Volga Bulgarians' culture but not of Russian one.

I am not interested in Russian propaganda of any century. That's just imperialism. Of course, I won't support Russian bullshit about Volga Bulgarians.

[Harkonnen]

Blade - just stop.

Nobody gives a fuck about your opinion.

[The Blade]

Blade - just stop.

Nobody gives a fuck about your opinion.
Don't tell me what to do. This thread has 30 X more to do with me than with you.

[Valwar]

Baltid.

[Harkonnen]

Don't tell me what to do. This thread has 30 X more to do with me than with you.

Now you are flipping bad mate.