R1b poll. Vote

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

which subclade you are predicted or confirmed ?

[frankhammer]

U106

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

R1b-L21 Atlantic-Celtic

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

U106

brother

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

R1b-L21 Atlantic-Celtic

interesting bro. it's pretty rare in portugal i reckon ?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

interesting bro. it's pretty rare in portugal i reckon ?

Not really, there's like five or six active members in here from Portugal and one of them is L21 as well. On 23andMe I have seen many Portugueses with the same haplogroup too.
DF27 is by far the most common R1b subclade in Portugal nonetheless.

[Ayetooey]

brother

Don't get too excited about your clade yet...I don't want you to be disappointed if you get tested and you're R1b-BY611 from some Albanian clan. :D

[Kaspias]

Morley predicted me as DF27.
Deniz's grandfather is DF27.
Peterski is DF27.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Don't get too excited about your clade yet...I don't want you to be disappointed if you get tested and you're R1b-BY611 from some Albanian clan. :D

that would suckz man xD
but than i couuld say my ancestor was vlach not serb haha

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Morley predicted me as DF27.
Deniz's grandfather is DF27.
Peterski is DF27.

confused, aren't you Q ?

[Kaspias]

confused, aren't you Q ?

Yeah, prediction was wrong :D

But Peterski and Deniz's grandfather is DF27.

[Ayetooey]

Yeah, prediction was wrong :D

But Peterski and Deniz's grandfather is DF27.

Wait what? Morley predicted you as R1b, but ftdna gave you Q?

[Ayetooey]

that would suckz man xD
but than i couuld say my ancestor was vlach not serb haha

By the way, your y-37 is only a str test, so you'll get matches and a Y dna, but for a subclade, you'll need to buy an snp pack after u get your results, or if you join a R1b group on FTDNA, they can trace your subclade based on your matches maybe.

[Kaspias]

Wait what? Morley predicted you as R1b, but ftdna gave you Q?

https://i.ibb.co/12dM2sM/Ads-z.png

[Ayetooey]

Oh, I thought you were predicted most likely as R1b, then you did ftdna and found out you were Q, that would of been crazy lol.

[frankhammer]

I did the big Y500 and came back R-Z7. A fair bit of money spent yet I know little more than the first two results from ADNA and 23&me...

[Thorns]

U152, I don't know any more than that, or much about it.

[dosas]

Z2103

[Grace O'Malley]

It would help to have an R1b tree in this thread.

http://www.jmhartley.com/HBlog/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/R-_R1b-ALL-Subclades-Overview-_-Family-Tree-DNA.png

[Grace O'Malley]

R1b-L21 Atlantic-Celtic

Did you ever get tested further? It would be interesting to find out what subclade under L21 you are.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Did you ever get tested further? It would be interesting to find out what subclade under L21 you are.

I haven't yet but planning on doing so in the future. I would have done a Yseq superclade panel by now but people tend to recommend me FTDNA.

[Artek]

To complicate things by a bit - V88 was also found in the Balkan mesolithic and some clades of L21, DF27, U152, Z2103 etc. never heard of any Celts or Gallo-Iberians but were just Bell Beaker and their story was sometimes completely different over time.

Of course, a good portion was included later into the Celtic sphere with expansion of this folk and recognised themselves as part of their culture but...what about these L21s from the eastern bank of Rhine who became Germanic? What about these Bell Beakers from the easternmost groups who became asimilated by the cousins of Balto-Slavs? What Copper Age "German" or "Czech" DF27s have to do with Iberia? Was Z2103 Bell Beaker Bronze-Age Southern "Pole" from Samborzec west asian or balkan? Can be V88 considered levant/african or just some certain subclades have the right?

I mean I understand that we all need some simplifications to grasp the general idea and learn the details later but some people never learn the details. Someone has to say: maybe yes but be aware that you may be totally wrong on how you think about your origins.

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

My R1b is : R-P311

which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?

[celticdragongod]

I'm FGC41932 which is downstream from R1b-L21.

[Artek]

My R1b is : R-P311

which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?

Are you tested with 23andMe V4 chip or older? P311 is equivalent to L52 so it may be everything. Possible subclade of R1b depends on your negatives.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

My R1b is : R-P311

which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?

R-P311 can be any of these:

https://i.postimg.cc/7Zvgg2xf/Opera-Instant-neo-2019-01-11-094333-en-wikipedia-org.png

[Mopi The Dire Wolf]

Are you tested with 23andMe V4 chip or older? P311 is equivalent to L52 so it may be everything. Possible subclade of R1b depends on your negatives.

my 23andme data is still using version 3

[Artek]

my 23andme data is still using version 3

So you should use this: https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

and check the main negatives.

[Grace O'Malley]

To complicate things by a bit - V88 was also found in the Balkan mesolithic and some clades of L21, DF27, U152, Z2103 etc. never heard of any Celts or Gallo-Iberians but were just Bell Beaker and their story was sometimes completely different over time.

Of course, a good portion was included later into the Celtic sphere with expansion of this folk and recognised themselves as part of their culture but...what about these L21s from the eastern bank of Rhine who became Germanic? What about these Bell Beakers from the easternmost groups who became asimilated by the cousins of Balto-Slavs? What Copper Age "German" or "Czech" DF27s have to do with Iberia? Was Z2103 Bell Beaker Bronze-Age Southern "Pole" from Samborzec west asian or balkan? Can be V88 considered levant/african or just some certain subclades have the right?

I mean I understand that we all need some simplifications to grasp the general idea and learn the details later but some people never learn the details. Someone has to say: maybe yes but be aware that you may be totally wrong on how you think about your origins.

The oldest L21 appears to be British Bell Beakers I don't think it has even been found yet in Central European Bell Beakers. Never heard of L21 been found in the Balkan mesolithic. That would be news to me if you have info on it. From what I've read L21 is most likely to have originated somewhere in Central Europe around the Rhine and Danube Rivers. I know that U106 split off first. P312 and U106 are sort of brother clades. Under P312 there is Z290 then L21. DF27 and U152 are the most closely related as they are both under ZZ11. (See tree I posted). I'm also not aware of DF27 and U152 being around in the Balkan mesolithic.

L21, DF27, U152 and U106 weren't around in the Neolithic let alone the Mesolithic so I'm a bit baffled. :confused3:

[Grace O'Malley]

I haven't yet but planning on doing so in the future. I would have done a Yseq superclade panel by now but people tend to recommend me FTDNA.

Yes you should have it done if possible. I think no continental L21 men have close STR matches to Isles L21s.

[PT Tagus]

Probably DF27

[dosas]

R1b Z2103 is connected to the 'Descent of the Dorians' in Greece/Balkans, according to eupedia. (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml)

So, my r1b ancestors were the original Macedonians/Spartans/etc. :cool:

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Z2103

isn't that L23 yamnanya branch

[dosas]

isn't that L23 yamnanya branch

Yes, afaik.

[Artek]

The oldest L21 appears to be British Bell Beakers I don't think it has even been found yet in Central European Bell Beakers. Never heard of L21 been found in the Balkan mesolithic. That would be news to me if you have info on it. From what I've read L21 is most likely to have originated somewhere in Central Europe around the Rhine and Danube Rivers. I know that U106 split off first. P312 and U106 are sort of brother clades. Under P312 there is Z290 then L21. DF27 and U152 are the most closely related as they are both under ZZ11. (See tree I posted). I'm also not aware of DF27 and U152 being around in the Balkan mesolithic.

L21, DF27, U152 and U106 weren't around in the Neolithic let alone the Mesolithic so I'm a bit baffled. :confused3:

I've clearly said it about V88. Other clades under L51 are not near enough age to be from Mesolithic Balkans.

[Annie999]

I voted for my paternal linage though obviously I didn’t inherit the Y gen.

My children will be R1-L21 though (because that’s the Y-DNA of my husband).

[Grace O'Malley]

I've clearly said it about V88. Other clades under L51 are not near enough age to be from Mesolithic Balkans.


To complicate things by a bit - V88 was also found in the Balkan mesolithic and some clades of L21, DF27, U152, Z2103 etc. never heard of any Celts or Gallo-Iberians but were just Bell Beaker and their story was sometimes completely different over time.



It did sound like you meant those later clades from your post but thanks for clarifying.

[Imperator Biff]

The oldest L21 appears to be British Bell Beakers I don't think it has even been found yet in Central European Bell Beakers.
If I’m not mistaken the amesbury archer guy buried near Stonehenge was from the continent according to oxygen isotope analysis done on his teeth.
He was R1b-L21.

[amXman]

well did big y 500 on ftdna got R-PF6653
so should be :
R1b
R-L754
R-L389
R-P297
R-M269
R-L23
R-L51
R-L52
R-L151
R-P312
R-U152
R-Z192
R-PF6656 --> R-PF6653

[Erronkari]

U152.
(Italo-celtic).

[J. Ketch]

I'm Atlantic Celtic, my maternal Grandfather seems to have been Germanic R-U106.

[Peterski]

Funny that I'm the only DF27 so far.

[Turul Karom]

The proud and happy R1 steppe family.

Interestingly, R1b-L23 in incredibly high in Bashkirs, making the majority of their population:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/Klyosov/Klyosov2011R1bDNAHistoryEn.htm

Here is a study about the amount of R1a and R1b in the Altaic mountains. R1 are the most prevalent haplogroups:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17633562

R1b-U106 discoveries in the graves of Hungarian conquering elites:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00438-016-1267-z

https://i.imgur.com/9ZEjOyS.png

https://i.imgur.com/WdUd647.jpg

[Ryuk]

The proud and happy R1 steppe family.

Interestingly, R1b-L23 in incredibly high in Bashkirs, making the majority of their population:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/Klyosov/Klyosov2011R1bDNAHistoryEn.htm

Here is a study about the amount of R1a and R1b in the Altaic mountains. R1 are the most prevalent haplogroups:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17633562

R1b-U106 discoveries in the graves of Hungarian conquering elites:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00438-016-1267-z

https://i.imgur.com/9ZEjOyS.png

https://i.imgur.com/WdUd647.jpg

All of altai-sayan,majority of uiyghur and significant of bashkirs R1b is R1b-M73(native siberian branch),so they very far away from European.

[Ülev]

^^
http://xn--c1acc6aafa1c.xn--p1ai/wp-content/uploads/2.10-500x495.jpg
http://генофонд.рф/?page_id=5629

[Turul Karom]

All of altai-sayan,majority of uiyghur and significant of bashkirs R1b is R1b-M73(native siberian branch),so they very far away from European.

Majority are not the same throughout Eurasia, and I wasn't referencing genetic clusters at all.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Assigned subclade (Nato) - FTDNA Y37 test

R1b (U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z381>Z301>L48>Z9>Z331>>Z330>Z326)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z326/

[the3dogwalker]

R-S846

From what I can gather, this is a Celtic Irish marker from around 900AD. Could be wrong, as I am green as grass when it comes to researching this stuff.

Anyone know anything about this Y Haplogroup? Seems like it might be a rare one........?

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't agree with L21 being called Atlantic/Celtic. It is much older than Celts and no Celtic groups yet are L21. This might change in the future but maybe not. My paternal side is M222 specifically S588 (so far). M222 is definitely British Isles though although not exclusively there because it has spread to some European countries from Ireland/Britain.

Some subclades under L21 are Irish though but L21 is too old to label other than Bell Beaker.

[Rius]

86913
https://i.hizliresim.com/9aO2Er.jpg (https://hizliresim.com/9aO2Er)

[dosas]

Reposting from the Mygrations thread, Z2103 branch:

https://i.ibb.co/rQGH7pf/Y155609migration.png