PDA

View Full Version : Elon Musk, what is the catch?



Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 11:53 AM
In the stock markets , Tesla is the most valued (expensive) car company, and it just makes no logical sense. Currently Tesla makes 250 000 cars/year, and is loosing money.

To compare

https://focus2move.com/world-car-brands-ranking/

Little Subaru made million cars and nobody gives a fuck.

It seems people have pseudo-religious cult-like belief for the infinite growth potential of Tesla.

Again this makes no logical sense. Tesla operates like a IT Company, it really has not the infrastructure (large factories) to build ten million cars a year like the traditional operators do. If electric cars really become a thing, Old Boys should be able to react quickly and crush Tesla, like the insect it is. That is if they are not run by complete morons.


To the catch. Religion operates outside the realm of logic and reason. If snake-charmer Musk can charm enuff fools to his cult he can pull of a "Apple".


Personally I'm not a belieber, but who knows.

Universe
01-11-2019, 01:11 PM
Good point, I've noticed this as well. Like it was in Stephen Hawking's and Obama's case, to an extent Musk's reputation comes from media's sensationalism rather than thorough analization of facts. A while ago I read a report on Tesla and I was surprised how bad it was doing for how hyped it was.

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 01:43 PM
Yeah it is bizarre situation to say the least. It looks like folks have this mental image in their heads that Tesla is growing company. And growth is good right? What they don't realize, is that the markets have already valued Tesla like it actually is the biggest auto company in the world right here right now. It is like buying a 10 euro lottery ticket with 2% chance that it will one day be worth 15 euro. Of course if you want to bank on the possibility that the bubble will keep growing for some time and trust that you are clever enuff to sell it before the eventual burst, then yeah why not.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 01:56 PM
I haven't invested on Tesla yet because I do believe it to be overvalued at the moment and we are about to witness a possible market crash or at least a recession after nearly a decade of bullish markets (in my humble opinion, I am no financial advisor), but it is certainly not a company that is loosing money currently. Where did you get that idea from, have you read their latest third quarter 2018 update? They broke all types of records. Model 3 was the best-selling car in the US in terms of revenue and the 5th best-selling in terms of volume. That's pretty much what matters, not the number of cars produced. Subaru could be producing a million cars a year that it won't change much if the revenue does not translate into operating profit (and Subaru quarterly profit was down 50% last year on the third quarter, their lowest in over five years).

Volatility in Tesla stocks are mostly a consequence of the impact of President Donald Trump's tariffs (sales in China crashed 70% in October amid the ongoing trade war) but that will be solved sooner or later.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 02:10 PM
is that the markets have [B]already valued Tesla like it actually is the biggest auto company in the world right here right now.

No they did not. It is not even on top 10. Stock prices does not correlate with the value of the company. Do you think that because each Tesla's stock costs 300$ and Ford only 6$ or something that makes it the most valuable? The actual dollar price of a stock means very little unless you consider other factors, if company A has a $100 billion market capitalization and has 10 billion shares, while company B has a $1 billion market capitalization and 100 million shares, both companies will have a share price of $10, but Company A is worth 100 times more than Company B.

ixulescu
01-11-2019, 02:43 PM
No they did not. It is not even on top 10. Stock prices does not correlate with the value of the company. Do you think that because each Tesla's stock costs 300$ and Ford only 6$ or something that makes it the most valuable? The actual dollar price of a stock means very little unless you consider other factors, if company A has a $100 billion market capitalization and has 10 billion shares, while company B has a $1 billion market capitalization and 100 million shares, both companies will have a share price of $10, but Company A is worth 100 times more than Company B.

Currently GM has a total market capitalization of about $50 billion. Tesla is at $60 billion.
Tesla has the largest market capitalization among auto manufacturers traded in the US.
It's not the largest auto manufacturer market value in the world though. That goes to Toyota at $200 billion.

Overall market value (or capitalization) should not be confused with total assets or total equity. In the last two categories, Tesla has much smaller values, but it grows exponentially (!!). I would not sit on my ass if I was an auto executive right now. Tesla already ate premium car manufacturers market share in the US, and still grows at incredible pace.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 03:11 PM
Currently GM has a total market capitalization of about $50 billion. Tesla is at $60 billion.
Tesla has the largest market capitalization among auto manufacturers traded in the US.
It's not the largest auto manufacturer market value in the world though. That goes to Toyota at $200 billion.

Overall market value (or capitalization) should not be confused with total assets or total equity. In the last two categories, Tesla has much smaller values, but it grows exponentially (!!). I would not sit on my ass if I was an auto executive right now. Tesla already ate premium car manufacturers market share in the US, and it still grows at incredible pace.

Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.

ixulescu
01-11-2019, 03:49 PM
Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.

Definitely Tesla is gunning for the largest auto manufacturer cap, largest battery manufacturer, largest solar panel producer etc.
But Tesla stock is going to be volatile for a long time, because they'll rarely show profit. They put all their money in R&D and infrastructure, like SpaceX does.

Look at what happened with SpaceX. They started from scratch 15 years and now they have 65% of the global satellite launching market. Considering that satellite launching is filled with state actors, a much larger share might not even be possible. It's incredible what they achieved in such a short time.

ixulescu
01-11-2019, 03:59 PM
@Viriato,

I found the market capitalization for Daimler and Volkswagen, they're at roughly $60 billion and $85 billion respectively.

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 04:24 PM
Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.

I have understood that Panasonic makes the batteries for Tesla. If Panasonic wants it can sell the same batteries for other manufacturers. I also don't believe there is anything that revolutionary about those batteries that it can't be replicated or improved by other players.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 04:47 PM
I have understood that Panasonic makes the batteries for Tesla. If Panasonic wants it can sell the same batteries for other manufacturers. I also don't believe there is anything that revolutionary about those batteries that it can't be replicated or improved by other players.

They are produced in Tesla Gigafactory 1 with the aid of Panasonic’s battery division I believe. Tesla has open-source patent philosophy to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, so you can bet indeed that other big autos have an eye on everything that Tesla does considering that they even encourage them to do so. Tesla's brand name is however already associated with innovation and higher efficiency than their competitors on same market segment. That's their differentiator.

Think of Tesla as you think of Coca-Cola. Tesla is the Coca-Cola of electric cars and clean energy storage. And very few people pick or prefer some cheap Cola rip-off brand over the original Coca-Cola.

MiloshN
01-11-2019, 04:48 PM
I really like that guy...

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 04:56 PM
They are produced in Tesla Gigafactory 1 with the aid of Panasonic’s battery division I believe. Tesla has open-source patent philosophy to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport, so you can bet indeed that other big autos have an eye on everything that Tesla does considering that they even encourage them to do so. Tesla's brand name is however already associated with innovation and higher efficiency than their competitors on same market segment. That's their differentiator.

Think of Tesla as you think of Coca-Cola. Tesla is the Coca-Cola of electric cars and clean energy storage. And very few people pick or prefer some cheap Cola rip-off brand over the original Coca-Cola.

I think in car markets many do in fact pick the cheaper option. What's going to happen is the Chinese are going to put up some ultra cheap option to markets and then we are just going to see how many are willing to pay treble the price for same technology build in same factory just because brand.

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 05:03 PM
Panasonic uneasy about partner Elon Musk's bombshells
Tesla chief now seen as risk to Japanese company's battery business

TOKYO -- Panasonic is beginning to reassess its relationship with U.S. automaker Tesla and its freewheeling CEO, Elon Musk.
The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filed charges against Musk on Thursday, alleging he made "false and misleading statements" when he tweeted in August about plans to take his carmaker private.
Tesla's stock price fell by almost 12% in after-hours trading in New York on Thursday. Panasonic shares fell by close to 1% at one point during Friday morning trading on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

Panasonic's management is uneasy about having its vital car battery business hinge on a man widely regarded as a visionary, but who has also made a series of head-scratching moves of late. Panasonic has invested heavily in the business, which it views as the main driver of its future growth.
The Japanese company's perceptions of Musk started changing when the entrepreneur abruptly tweeted that he had funding for the privatization plan on Aug. 7.

About two weeks later, facing strong opposition from shareholders, Musk withdrew the plan to go private.
A senior Panasonic executive described Musk's announcement, which could have triggered a class-action lawsuit if the plan had been pursued, as "unimaginable."
In early September, the Panasonic executive was stunned to watch the CEO, appearing on a webcast, taking a deep drag on what was apparently marijuana.
In addition to supplying batteries manufactured in Japan to Tesla, Panasonic is also operating a huge battery manufacturing plant in the U.S. state of Nevada jointly with Musk's company. The plant started full-scale operation in 2017 and is expected to ramp up its annual production capacity by 30%. So by the end of March 2019, it will be able to make 35 gigawatt-hours of lithium-ion batteries.
Panasonic is shelling out some 200 billion yen ($1.78 billion) of the estimated total investment of 500 billion yen in the plant.
Sales to businesses account for about 70% of Panasonic's overall group revenue of around 8 trillion yen. Car batteries are the mainstay of its business-to-business operations.
Although it was dethroned from the top spot on the list of the world's leading makers of car batteries by Chinese rivals in 2017, Panasonic is still the No. 1 supplier for passenger vehicles, according to an executive in charge of the business. Japanese, European and American automakers make about 70 models powered by Panasonic batteries.
Tesla is by far the largest customer for Panasonic's car battery business, with each of its electric vehicles using thousands of cylindrical battery cells.
Less than two months before Musk's buyout bombshell, Panasonic felt reassured about its partnership with Tesla. The partner had pledged to raise the production rate of its new, more affordable Model 3 to 5,000 units per week by the end of June.
In mid-June, Panasonic President Kazuhiro Tsuga flew to the U.S. in a private jet and visited the plant in Nevada, known as the Gigafactory. Although many observers were skeptical about the Model 3 production hike, Musk asked Tsuga to make as many batteries as possible to meet strong demand.
Panasonic was considering new plans to boost its battery production capacity to supply Tesla, including expansion of the Gigafactory and a new plant in China, when Musk tweeted the privatization proposal. Then, Tesla's chief accounting officer suddenly resigned in early September after only a month on the job -- one of many recent departures of senior Tesla executives.
All these developments have fueled concerns about Musk's managerial fitness.
Tesla is still losing money and is suffering from negative free cash flow. Panasonic will decide on future investments in its business with Tesla after assessing whether the Model 3 will generate enough profits to allow the company to expand its operations, according to a senior executive.
The success of the Model 3 is crucial for Tesla, if it is to remain the leader in the electric vehicle race. Rivals such as Mercedes-Benz are beginning to bring multiple models into the luxury electric segment.
Panasonic, for its part, is on a solid financial footing. The company's own capital ratio is a healthy 30% or so, and it boasts over 200 billion yen in net profit every year.
The future of its car battery business seems to be bright, given tremendous potential demand as the auto industry goes electric. But Panasonic has spent an amount roughly equivalent to its annual net profit on its joint battery plant with Tesla. If the U.S. partner's business runs into trouble, that would spell trouble for Panasonic as well.
Panasonic has rebounded from the losses of over 750 billion yen it posted for each of the two consecutive years to the end of March 2013, due mainly to a slump in its TV business. The company made a huge but misguided bet on plasma display technology in the early 2000s, investing a total of 600 billion yen to build plants to manufacture plasma TVs at home and abroad.
The market for plasma TVs never took off, as consumers opted for LCD sets instead.
Tsuga, who took the helm in 2012, pushed through a radical overhaul to shift the group's strategic focus to businesses catering to corporate clients. Panasonic's cash reserves surged to 1.3 trillion yen at the end of March 2015, up from about 500 billion yen two years earlier.
The Japanese company struck a deal on the joint battery manufacturing venture with Tesla in 2014 as it regained financial health. Its partnership with Musk's electric vehicle scheme is symbolic of Tsuga's structural reform, and also of his vision for the company's future.
Tsuga, who has reinvented Panasonic's business portfolio without resistance from the old guard, may have seen a kindred spirit in Musk, a radically innovative entrepreneur pushing to revolutionize the auto industry.
But the eccentric Tesla CEO has also become a risk factor. The Justice Department, too, has reportedly launched an investigation into Musk's tweet about delisting Tesla.
Tesla's performance, and Musk's behavior, through the rest of the year will determine the future of the partnership, a senior Panasonic executive said.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Panasonic-uneasy-about-partner-Elon-Musk-s-bombshells

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 05:20 PM
I think in car markets many do in fact pick the cheaper option. What's going to happen is the Chinese are going to put up some ultra cheap option to markets and then we are just going to see how many are willing to pay treble the price for same technology build in same factory just because brand.

Well, a single Tesla battery itself is not that expensive already, they have invested heavily to decrease its production costs. You can buy a few on Ebay for 3$ each or something, made in the US.A. They very likely will build a overseas car-assembly plants and gather new battery suppliers, probably in China. Why wouldn't other manufacturers buy from Tesla through agreements though? My Mitsubishi runs on a Mercedes engine.

If you don't buy into the hype around Tesla you might want to consider looking after lithium-mining companies. There's a lot of hype around them, along with weed stocks they are some of the hottest speculative stocks.

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 05:30 PM
This news from today


Jaguar I-PACE outsells Tesla on debut


Tesla has had a straight head-to-head fight with the first full exclusively electric offering from a legacy carmaker and lost. Badly.
Long the lead (and mostly the only) player in the dedicated premium EV market, Tesla was unseated from its throne in The Netherlands, Norway and even Sweden by Jaguar’s I-PACE in December.

Even more telling, Jaguar’s first electric car dominated in The Netherlands, selling more than any other car the country in December as buyers raced to get out in front of January 2019’s higher taxes on EVs.

With Audi’s e-tron and e-tron GT, Porsche’s Taycan, Mercedes-Benz’s EQ C and a horde of Volkswagen-branded EVs launching this year, the heavily subsidized EV markets of Norway and Sweden will be the countries to watch this year.
But, at the very least, Tesla’s comfortable dominance of the premium EV world is starting to look shaky, with the I-PACE’s sales exploding in Europe’s most critical electric-car markets.
While the volumes weren’t enormous, at 2621 cars in December, it showed Jaguar diverting its I-PACE production to The Netherlands before the country bumped its tax on EVs up from four percent to 22 percent on New Year’s Eve.


https://www.motoring.com.au/jaguar-i-pace-outsells-tesla-on-debut-116428/

Other operators are waking up and I think the market is going to melt under Tesla and they gonna loose their headstart. In the long run Musks frantic leading style is not going to work. This whole Panasonic drama is good example. Panasonic wants to work with stable partners/people. This same issue is gonna come up with other potential partnering companies and Mr Musk.

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas
01-11-2019, 05:33 PM
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Panasonic-uneasy-about-partner-Elon-Musk-s-bombshells

Lol, Elon Musk is an unique and highly controversial CEO. Anything he tweets has the potential to volatile drastically Tesla's stocks.

Hulu
01-11-2019, 07:38 PM
Again this makes no logical sense. Tesla operates like a IT Company, it really has not the infrastructure (large factories) to build ten million cars a year like the traditional operators do.

They're going there.

Musk was in Shanghai on Monday for the ground-breaking of Tesla's first overseas factory - a $2 billion Gigafactory - which will allow it to sell vehicles directly in the world's largest market for electric vehicles.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6581311/Elon-Musk-ex-girlfriend-Grimes-spotted-enjoying-meal-traditional-lamb-hot-pot-Beijing.html

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 07:44 PM
One of the Tesla bosses Linda Johnson Rice, just sold her options, for shits and giggles

https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1083196441026269184

Harkonnen
01-11-2019, 08:01 PM
They're going there.

Musk was in Shanghai on Monday for the ground-breaking of Tesla's first overseas factory - a $2 billion Gigafactory - which will allow it to sell vehicles directly in the world's largest market for electric vehicles.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6581311/Elon-Musk-ex-girlfriend-Grimes-spotted-enjoying-meal-traditional-lamb-hot-pot-Beijing.html

A factory that is going to take at least 2 years minimum to build. I know Musk was talking less than 1 year, but that was surely just one of his patented overly optimistic advertising speeches -- just like the undestructuble brakes etc.

Harkonnen
01-19-2019, 12:31 PM
https://www.breakingthenews.net/tesla-to-lay-off-7-of-employees-stock-sinks-4-5/news/details/46425384

Tesla Inc. is cutting its workforce by 7% as part of its cost-cutting efforts aimed at selling Model 3 sedan at a lower price, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday citing a memo written by CEO Elon Musk to his employees. Meanwhile, the company's shares were down almost 4.5% during premarket trading and following the news report.
"Tesla will need to make these cuts while increasing the Model 3 production rate and making many manufacturing engineering improvements in the coming months," Musk stated in the memo. "Higher volume and manufacturing design improvements are crucial for Tesla to achieve the economies of scale required to manufacture the standard range (220 mile), standard interior Model 3 at $35k and still be a viable company," he pointed out.


Sorry for all these numbers, but I want to make sure that you know all the facts and figures and understand that the road ahead is very difficult

Harkonnen
01-20-2019, 08:48 AM
Toyota is developing hydrogen fuel cells

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydrogen-boss-explains-how-fuel-cells-can-achieve-corolla-costs

Harkonnen
01-20-2019, 09:51 AM
One more option for propulsion. Soletair is making fuel from carbon and hydrogen

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170808182423.htm

Jamie Hyneman opened the first test factory in Lappeenranta, so this must be good :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOWQh9T_W64

Kazimiera
01-20-2019, 05:39 PM
Elon Musk's cult of personality.......

People are fooled by him as well as the name 'Tesla'. If it says 'Tesla' then it must be good and valuable, right? Because Elon Musk is a good guy and Nikola Tesla was a well-known innovator. What Musk is good at is publicity and that is where the buck stops.

Whatever Tesla manufactures and will manufacture is overpriced, whether it's a car or nail clipper.

Harkonnen
01-20-2019, 05:40 PM
That's how business works. You are taking loans and have loses at the beginning, but the potential value which you bring to the world is valued higher comparing to the actual value. I am pretty much sure that his company taking cash loans (https://cashflashloans.com/) in order to cover all the expenses. These loans are taking from financial institutions or from the board.

It looks like I'm answering to bloody bot :D but anyway :D

In recent weeks, Tesla's communications style seem to have changed considerably. In the course of weeks, we have been moving from really high flying to well-behaved and official style. The measures are what would be expected when the cash situation begins to be critical.

The situation can be anything and anything can happen, but likely scenario is:

- Musk has lost Tesla's control to a significant extent. Decisions are practically dictated by another party, such as the largest creditors or law firm.

- Some sort of reorganization is going to happen, probably Chapter 11 or Chapter 7. Fastest this could happend is whithin month, slowest before midsummer.

- In a positive scenario, Ch 11 or Ch 7 is going to be avoided with help of a group of investors who are going to give a large loan package under strict conditions.

Arsen_
01-20-2019, 06:23 PM
In the stock markets , Tesla is the most valued (expensive) car company, and it just makes no logical sense.

Once upon a time, dinosaurs were masters of the whole Earth, and mammals dragged out a miserable existence, but now the world is not as used to be! You can see Tesla as mammals in the age of dinosaurs.

https://d.radikal.ru/d03/1901/54/1536830268f9.jpg

Harkonnen
01-21-2019, 08:53 PM
Once upon a time, dinosaurs were masters of the whole Earth, and mammals dragged out a miserable existence, but now the world is not as used to be! You can see Tesla as mammals in the age of dinosaurs.



We shall be spotting for that meteorite.

Harkonnen
01-23-2019, 07:11 PM
Lots happend in just few days. First Tesla spiked up the electricity bill:


Tesla increases Supercharging prices to the point that gas might be cheaper

For 100kWh battery packs, a full charge costs $32 to $36 based on the new rates. Refueling with 12 gallons of gas at Tesla's claimed $2.85 per gallon costs $34.20. At the current national average, 15 gallons of gas is slightly cheaper than charging a Model S or Model X.


BUT just a day later:


Tesla reverses charging prices hike

Electric-car maker Tesla has reversed a decision to drastically increase prices for its charging stations, following a backlash from customers.



You could not write this gong show.

Harkonnen
01-29-2019, 02:24 PM
Sweden is considering banning Tesla because safety concern over the sketchy autopilot system

Sverige överväger förbjuda försäljning av Teslabilar
Teslas system "kan inte godkännas med nuvarande lagstiftning". Med de orden arbetar svenska Transportstyrelsen för att stoppa försäljning av Tesla i sex månader i Sverige. Orsaken: att Tesla uppdaterar bilarnas säkerhetssystem trådlöst via nätet, utom myndigheternas kontroll.

https://www.svd.se/sverige-overvager-forbjuda-forsaljning-av-teslabilar

Harkonnen
02-28-2019, 10:35 PM
"Tesla shares drop after Elon Musk says he does not expect to turn a profit in the first quarter"

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/28/elon-musk-tesla-not-profitable-in-q1.html?__source=newsletter%7Cbreakingnews

"Tesla To Shut Most Of Its Stores Worldwide"

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/03/tesla-to-shut-most-of-its-stores/

Ford
02-28-2019, 10:38 PM
Elon Musk is on the same level as a Bond villain.

ixulescu
02-28-2019, 10:46 PM
"Tesla To Shut Most Of Its Stores Worldwide"

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/03/tesla-to-shut-most-of-its-stores/

Yes, but the reason is because they generated little traffic and sales. Tesla sells through word of mouth, they do no traditional advertising, and showrooms can be considered part of advertising.

From what I understand, the way sales is going to work from now on is like this: you order the car online, the car is dropped at the door, and you have 7 days and 1000 miles to make your mind if you want to keep it.

Tesla is saying that money from the stores it's going to be invested in more service centers (which seems to be more important for the customers atm).

Harkonnen
03-01-2019, 05:20 PM
Problem right now is that the expensive models are not selling and they are not making profit with the cheaper ones.

Óttar
03-01-2019, 05:34 PM
TSLA stock price will come down eventually. After any pull-back in the economy, car companies sell luxuries that people can't afford.

ixulescu
03-01-2019, 05:34 PM
Problem right now is that the expensive models are not selling and they are not making profit with the cheaper ones.

I'm not sure what you mean. In the US, Tesla sells more than the entire premium segment (of similarly priced cars).

In other markets (Europe and China) they are just starting selling the Model 3.
The same holds true for lower priced Tesla. Just yesterday they launched the $35k model. We'll see how that sells.

Harkonnen
03-01-2019, 06:04 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. In the US, Tesla sells more than the entire premium segment (of similarly priced cars).

In other markets (Europe and China) they are just starting selling the Model 3.
The same holds true for lower priced Tesla. Just yesterday they launched the $35k model. We'll see how that sells.

Yeah but the sails for premium segment are going down.


These are Tesla's official numbers
ir.tesla.com/static-files/0b913415-467d-4c0d-be4c-9225c2cb0ae0

Tesla Q3 last year:

Model 3 average prize: $60 800
Model 3 production cost: $48 000
S and X models average prize: $108 000
S and X models production cost: $75 000

In addition to these numbers every car made cost Tesla $13 700 in other expenses (marketing etc). This means they were losing money every model 3 sold.


Numbers for Q4:

Model 3 average prize $53 000
Model 3 production cost: $42 400
S and X models prize: $107 500
S and X models cost: $74 700

Other expenses: $12 800

This year production cost is still likely going down (but so is prize) so Tesla is likely making profit by end of the year with model 3 - but not much.


So you can see Tesla would much rather sell Premium models, but like said there are signs that demand for those is going down.

ixulescu
03-01-2019, 07:51 PM
Yeah but the sails for premium segment are going down.


These are Tesla's official numbers
ir.tesla.com/static-files/0b913415-467d-4c0d-be4c-9225c2cb0ae0

Tesla Q3 last year:

Model 3 average prize: $60 800
Model 3 production cost: $48 000
S and X models average prize: $108 000
S and X models production cost: $75 000

In addition to these numbers every car made cost Tesla $13 700 in other expenses (marketing etc). This means they were losing money every model 3 sold.


Numbers for Q4:

Model 3 average prize $53 000
Model 3 production cost: $42 400
S and X models prize: $107 500
S and X models cost: $74 700

Other expenses: $12 800

This year production cost is still likely going down (but so is prize) so Tesla is likely making profit by end of the year with model 3 - but not much.



Still, Tesla made a profit in both Q3 and Q4.
Regardless, Tesla is not out for profit but growth. They want to capture the market. This means Tesla is aggressively pushing the prices down to get the volume of cars moving.

Harkonnen
04-27-2019, 10:04 AM
https://evsalestracker.com/#/Tesla

Sales looks to be down.

Harkonnen
04-27-2019, 04:38 PM
https://www.gurufocus.com/news/863215/the-tesla-growth-story-is-dead/?utm_source=cnn&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=cnn&r=21637c73084e87d770a98f867757282f


Tesla cannot sell its current vehicle lineup profitably on a sustainable basis. As tax credits expire and new competitors enter the electric vehicle market, Tesla will face increasing pressure to cut prices again, further diminishing its margins.Meanwhile, it is rapidly burning through cash just to keep the lights on.

Tesla’s $45 billion valuation is based on the belief that it can rapidly and profitably scale production of its current and planned products. In other words, Tesla is valued for its growth story. That story came to an end on April 24. The market has not yet fully come to terms with this fact, but it will soon enough. Mounting losses and disappointing sales will inevitably trigger a severe downward price correction.

Marmara
04-27-2019, 04:41 PM
Elon Musk is a phony.

Cernunnos
04-27-2019, 04:58 PM
TSLA stock price will come down eventually. After any pull-back in the economy, car companies sell luxuries that people can't afford.

Car industry is always one of the most afected after any financial crisis, look what happened to many Automobile corporations after the crash of 2008.

The Lawspeaker
05-16-2019, 01:15 AM
And now there are some competitors as well:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po80nVKg6uw

Start-up Thor wants to beat Tesla to the market with electric semi-trucks. Thor's custom models are due in 2019 and meant for short hauls.

RenaRyuguu
07-27-2019, 07:49 PM
Dk he's a genius

Harkonnen
07-28-2019, 02:26 PM
Yes, but the reason is because they generated little traffic and sales. Tesla sells through word of mouth, they do no traditional advertising, and showrooms can be considered part of advertising.

From what I understand, the way sales is going to work from now on is like this: you order the car online, the car is dropped at the door, and you have 7 days and 1000 miles to make your mind if you want to keep it.

Tesla is saying that money from the stores it's going to be invested in more service centers (which seems to be more important for the customers atm).

Yeah well Musk backed down from this idea within a week or so.