Classify Ethnic Persian & Azeri Iranian man

[Oghuz]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Mohammad_Reza_Golzar_13930130151811268.jpg/259px-Mohammad_Reza_Golzar_13930130151811268.jpg

http://en.ifilmtv.com/UploadedFiles/MultiImages/12-02-2017/16_golzar_212_53_30.jpg

http://mydailyfundose.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/320.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61KbAbSFgSL._SS500.jpg

[Satem]

Iranid+Alpine?

[Impaler]

Iranid+Alpine?

If you knew he was Spanish, would you say the same? Iranid? :)

[Oghuz]

If you knew he was Spanish, would you say the same? Iranid? :)

I do not think he would pass in Spain. His central Iranian features are getting more prominent with age.

[Satem]

If you knew he was Spanish, would you say the same? Iranid? :)

Yeah I wouldn't say that if he was Spanish.

[Oghuz]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BYThjNWRlOTgtYTkzMi00NmQ2LTliMjEtMDg1NmNiNzUyZm RkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjkxOTM4ODY@._V1_.jpg

[Oghuz]

bump

[Zroota]

I know a Greek guy that looks like this.

Pontid + Alpine

[Oghuz]

I know a Greek guy that looks like this.

Pontid + Alpine

I think it will be better to call him East Med + Alpine.

Alpinisation has softened his features so we do not know his elongated skull comes from Pontid or Iranid influence.

[chociprasa]

Robust Iranid + North Pontid.

[MS85]

Light skinned Western Iranian.

[Zroota]

I think it will be better to call him East Med + Alpine.

Alpinisation has softened his features so we do not know his elongated skull comes from Pontid or Iranid influence.
East Med is not a legitimate phenotype though. As you might know, it's an umbrella term for Armenoid, Anatolid, Syrid, Iranid and all other phenotypes to the east of the Mediterranean.

His look is more western, hence Pontid. And his skull or head shape is not that long enough for Iranid either way. I don't see any Orientalid elements, so that's why I didn't classify him as an Iranid. Of course, this is not to say that he cannot pass as an Iranian, as they are a diverse peoples. But I just can't see him as an Iranid per se.

[Negah]

Very handsome man

[MS85]

I think it will be better to call him East Med + Alpine.

Alpinisation has softened his features so we do not know his elongated skull comes from Pontid or Iranid influence.Does he look like this Kurdish PKK warrior (young man on the right) on the picture?

https://i.postimg.cc/LXQ0sBH2/ace.jpg

[Oghuz]

East Med is not a legitimate phenotype though. As you might know, it's an umbrella term for Armenoid, Anatolid, Syrid, Iranid and all other phenotypes to the east of the Mediterranean.

His look is more western, hence Pontid. And his skull or head shape is not that long enough for Iranid either way. I don't see any Orientalid elements, so that's why I didn't classify him as an Iranid. Of course, this is not to say that he cannot pass as an Iranian, as they are a diverse peoples. But I just can't see him as an Iranid per se.

I though east med means only Pontid, Iranid as both are sub med types... the brachycephalic caucasus types are not included in it.

Alpinisation may have softened his iranid chiseled facial features which is making him look more western shifted. in my observation Irano alpines look western shifted. Alpinisation just turn the orientalid Iranid into more western shifted looking like this girl.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsYs_QQ8zfmBPEO7JVThjEhGgSmYBDs WqRCexBp25Fh0puDrr_

Remove the alpine component and this man may become fully Iranid or Irano med.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BM2M2MzQ3ODEtY2NlYy00NWI0LWJlYzMtMTUyZWZmMDU0Mz BkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzc1ODc1MzM@._V1_.jpg

[Oghuz]

Does he look like this Kurdish PKK warrior (young man on the right) on the picture?



Kinda similar yes.

[21993]

Alpine-Pontid

[Kyp]

Does he look like this Kurdish PKK warrior (young man on the right) on the picture?

https://i.postimg.cc/LXQ0sBH2/ace.jpg

not really.

[MS85]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Mohammad_Reza_Golzar_13930130151811268.jpg/259px-Mohammad_Reza_Golzar_13930130151811268.jpgBy only seeing the first picture I thinkt there is a lot 'gedrosia' (ancient Neolithic Iranian farmer) auDNA in him.

[Oghuz]

By only seeing this picture I thinkt there is a lot 'gedrosia' (ancient Neolithic Iranian farmer) auDNA in him.

Also in this 2 pictures he can also pass as avery light skinned Northern Indian or something.


But I am very bad at classifying people.

Northern Indian elongated skull is Nord Indid which itself is the legacy of Indo Iranian or Indo Sychtian, Afghan migrations into the area.

.........

Iranian Neolithic farmers were CHG and Anatolian WHG ? yesterday a member was calling me anatolian WHG carrier.

[Kyp]

Iranian Neolithic farmers were CHG and Anatolian WHG ? yesterday a member was calling me anatolian WHG carrier.

That was me. First you need to understand that Neolithic Iran differs from Chalcolithic Iran. Especially the Northwest.

[MS85]

Northern Indian elongated skull is Nord Indid which itself is the legacy of Indo Iranian or Indo Sychtian, Afghan migrations into the area.

.........

Iranian Neolithic farmers were CHG and Anatolian WHG ? yesterday a member was calling me anatolian WHG carrier.Yeah, I made a mistake with that remark. I just googled so called 'white' northern Indian Bollywood actors and they actually don't look like him. There is still a lot Indic/Dravidian in those Indians.

I think that Iran_N is actually more 'pure' than CHG. Since CHG had some ancient geneflow from the Steppes since the dawn of time.

Maybe this can help.

https://i.postimg.cc/SNRyQkhp/1.jpg

[Oghuz]

That was me. First you need to understand that Neolithic Iran differs from Chalcolithic Iran. Especially the Northwest.

How much difference ?

https://i.imgur.com/GJOZYEd.png

[Rgvgjhvv]

I do not think he would pass in Spain. His central Iranian features are getting more prominent with age.

I simply can not believe that, even for a second.

[Oghuz]

I simply can not believe that, even for a second.

Markos I have been to Spain man. They are Europeans. They look different.

[Kyp]

How much difference ?

https://i.imgur.com/GJOZYEd.png

probably like a 40% difference, varying in certain regions.
Brahui people and Balochs are the most neolithic Iranian people and they don't resemble the guy at all.
As you can see modern Iranians are almost intermediate between Neolithic Iran and Neolithic Anatolia.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Markos I have been to Spain man. They are Europeans. They look different.

Ethnicity and geography mean nothing to my eyeballs, haha.

[Oghuz]

As you can see modern Iranians are almost intermediate between Neolithic Iran and Neolithic Anatolia.

And also inflow from Andronovo, Sintashta.

[Negah]

Markos I have been to Spain man. They are Europeans. They look different.

I have been to Portugal and I concur

[Oghuz]

Ethnicity and geography mean nothing to my eyeballs, haha.

which makes you probably the rational most member of TA. hehe

[Rgvgjhvv]

This man is 100% Spanish and looks way more "Eastern" than the man in the OP.

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https://valleyofthesuns.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1144343274-850x560.jpeg&c=sc&w=590&h=389

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ricky_Rubio_feels_he_s_just_hitting_his_prime.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5c4zwyFCuSGNUlqReo4b_fmutCs=/0x0:4256x2837/352x235/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64706055/1157562124.jpg.0.jpg

[Oghuz]

This man is 100% Spanish and looks way more "Eastern" than the man in the OP.

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https://valleyofthesuns.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2017/07/1144343274-850x560.jpeg&c=sc&w=590&h=389

https://clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ricky_Rubio_feels_he_s_just_hitting_his_prime.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5c4zwyFCuSGNUlqReo4b_fmutCs=/0x0:4256x2837/352x235/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/64706055/1157562124.jpg.0.jpg


Yes you are right but I found another of his pic

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https://thejnotes.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2018/03/927685062-utah-jazz-v-sacramento-kings.jpg.jpg&c=sc&w=850&h=560

[Kyp]

And also inflow from Andronovo, Sintashta.

Yes this migration would explain the increase of steppe DNA and an additional Neolithic Iranian increase from BMAC. MS85 will probably deny all eastern iranian influence tho. Zoroastrian Iranians btw have the highest amount of steppe ancestry among Iranians.

Btw the guy in the Op can pass as southern european easily imo.

[Oghuz]

Yes this migration would explain the increase of steppe DNA and an additional Neolithic Iranian increase from BMAC. MS85 will probably deny all eastern iranian influence tho. Zoroastrian Iranians btw have the highest amount of steppe ancestry.

Modern day Iranians are mixtures of CHG, WHG and Steppe.

Most fascinating is the fact that despite invasions and occupations, there is no significant Arab or Mongol influence in Iran.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Yes you are right but I found another of his pic

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https://thejnotes.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-images/2018/03/927685062-utah-jazz-v-sacramento-kings.jpg.jpg&c=sc&w=850&h=560

Though funnily enough, I've seen other Spanish people with a very similar look. So it must exist, even if it's a small percentage.

There's this one YouTuber people post on here a lot to troll TA Spaniards on 'whiteness' who looks the same. I can't seem to find the video though right now haha

[Oghuz]

Though funnily enough, I've seen other Spanish people with a very similar look. So it must exist, even if it's a small percentage.

There's this one YouTuber people post on here a lot to troll TA Spaniards on 'whiteness' who looks the same. I can't seem to find the video though right now haha

Spanish may be yes but Italians, Greeks are often darkwashed here on TA. Any fair west asian is termed as Greek looking and darkest most Italians are posted here. I have been to both countries and they are both as European as it can be. Greeks are just more robust looking.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Spanish may be yes but Italians, Greeks are often darkwashed here on TA. Any fair west asian is termed as Greek looking and darkest most Italians are posted here. I have been to both countries and they are both as European as it can be. Greeks are just more robust looking.

I don't think you were here before Sikeliot was active but he's the master of dark-washing the hell out of Italians, and white-washing the hell out of Greeks (All Greeks are Slavs, looks like Poles, etc).

It's a strange forum haha.

[MS85]

Yes this migration would explain the increase of steppe DNA and an additional Neolithic Iranian increase from BMAC. MS85 will probably deny all eastern iranian influence tho. Zoroastrian Iranians btw have the highest amount of steppe ancestry among Iranians.Of course I do not agree with you at all. Most of the steppes ancestry as geneflow in Iran is from the very ancient times. Neolithic people in Armenia, Anatolia and Caucasus already had some Steppes ancestry.

Later on Steppes increased a little bit because of the contacts with the Scythians.

Zoroastrians have nothing to do with the Steppes at all. Zoroastrians (ancient and modern) have even more of the Iran_N ancestry than modern West Iranians.


The Genetic Legacy of Zoroastrianism in Iran and India: Insights into Population Structure, Gene Flow, and Selection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28844488

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30291-4

[Oghuz]

I don't think you were here before Sikeliot was active but he's the master of dark-washing the hell out of Italians, and white-washing the hell out of Greeks (All Greeks are Slavs, looks like Poles, etc).

It's a strange forum haha.

yes TA is full of nationalists, trolls and people with agendas. I just come here because this place makes me feel like a citizen of the world if that makes sense. There are cross border friendships etc here and it makes me feel like in the end we are all just people.

[MS85]

Furthermore, a recent study using genome-wide autosomal DNA found that haplotype patterns in Iranian Zoroastrians matched more than other modern Iranian groups to a high-coverage early Neolithic farmer genome from Iran.

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30291-4

[Kyp]

Of course I do not agree with you at all. Most of the steppes ancestry as geneflow in Iran is from the very ancient times. Neolithic people in Armenia, Anatolia and Caucasus already had some Steppes ancestry.

Later on Steppes increased a little bit because of the contacts with the Scythians.

Zoroastrians have nothing to do with the Steppes at all. Zoroastrians (ancient and modern) have even more of the Iran_N ancestry than modern West Iranians.


The Genetic Legacy of Zoroastrianism in Iran and India: Insights into Population Structure, Gene Flow, and Selection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28844488

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30291-4

They do have the highest amount of steppe ancestry according to genetics. That's a fact. Yes they are heavy Iran_Neolithic also. But BMAC people were also heavy neolithic so that doesn't tell us anything. I'm not here to talk origins of certain cultures as I myself don't have a strong opinion on this, you can believe what you want at the end of the day.

[MS85]

Furthermore, a recent study using genome-wide autosomal DNA found that haplotype patterns in Iranian Zoroastrians matched more than other modern Iranian groups to a high-coverage early Neolithic farmer genome from Iran.

https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30291-4With other words ancient Zoroastrians in Iran were much 'more' native Iranian Plateau people than modern Iranians.

[MS85]

They do have the highest amount of steppe ancestry according to genetics. That's a fact. Yes they are heavy Iran_Neolithic also. But BMAC people were also heavy neolithic so that doesn't tell us anything. I'm not here to talk origins of certain cultures as I myself don't have a strong opinion on this, you can believe what you want at the end of the day.That tells us actually a lot!

That tells us that ancient Zoroastrians were even more NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau than modern people. In the academic papers they didn't find any significant Steppes ancestry in the Zoroastrians at all. And even if there was some it was most likely from a geneflow from ANCIENT Armenia or South Central Asia.

There was no invasion, there was no big migration. We can only detect the continuation of native population.

[Kyp]

That tells us actually a lot!

That tells us that ancient Zoroastrians were even more NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau than modern people. In the academic papers they didn't find any significant Steppes ancestry in Zoroastrians at all. And even if there was some it was most likely from a geneflow from ANCIENT Armenia or South Central Asia.

There was no invasion, there was no big migration. We can only detect the continuation of native population.

Since the Iron Age, not since the Neolithic. No one denies that modern Iranians are mostly native. YOU are the one who doesnt consider old eastern Iranians as native. Old BMAC clusters with Neolithic Iran. Iron Age Turkmenistan is BMAC+Steppe hybrid. That tells us a lot also.

[MS85]

Since the Iron Age, not since the Neolithic. No one denies that modern Iranians are mostly native. YOU are the one who doesnt consider old eastern Iranians as native. Old BMAC clusters with Neolithic Iran. Iron Age Turkmenistan is BMAC+Steppe hybrid. That tells us a lot also.Eastern Iranics are too much mixed with the Dravidians and Mongoloid people from the Steppes.

Dude, Iron Age Turkmenistan has been populated by the West Iranic (Aryan) people. ARYAN BMAC was found West Iranic people. Later on Aryans from the BMAC mixed with the Mongoloid Steppes people who had a lot of EHG in them.

You are talking about the Iron Age. Iron Age is very recent. Iron Age is the AGE of the Scythians. And Scythians were very mixed. It is known that that region was populated by the Scytians. And Scytians were just 'Iranized' eastern Iranic speakers.


And I was talking about the ancient Zoroastrians who were more native to the Iranian Plateau than modern Iranic people.

[Kyp]

Eastern Iranics are too much mixed with the Dravidians and Mongoloid people from the Steppes.

Dude, Iron Age Turkmenistan has been populated by the West Iranic (Aryan) people. ARYAN BMAC was found West Iranic people. Later on Aryans from the BMAC mixed with the Mongoloid Steppes people who had a lot of EHG in them.

You are talking about the Iron Age. Iron Age is very recent. Iron Age is the AGE of the Scythians. And Scythians were very mixed. It is known that that region was populated by the Scytians. And Scytians were just 'Iranized' eastern Iranic speakers.


And I was talking about the ancient Zoroastrians who were more native to the Iranian Plateau than modern Iranic people.

We seem to differ only in the assumption that I think there was a backwards migration to the west from the BMAC (steppe admixed) which you deny. Fair enough. Bye

[MS85]

YOU are the one who doesnt consider old eastern Iranians as native. Old BMAC clusters with Neolithic Iran.Old Eastern Iranians (from the Aryan Bronze Age BMAC/Oxus culture) were from the Zagros Mountains and were actually western Iranian people. It were the Western Iranians who achieved many things and were very influential in the human history. Western Iranians invented agriculture, irrigation canals etc. build empires. While Eastern Iranic people achieved NOTHING after they were mixed with the Dravidians and Mongoloid Steppes people.

Old Eastern Iranics mixed too much with the Dravidians and Mongoloid Central Asians full of EHG. Nowadays, Eastern Iranic people are only distantly related to the Western Iranic people. Their 'Iranic' culture is from the Western Iranics from Western Asia.

The only Central Asian Iranian people who are still relatively close to Western Iranians (Aryans) are Tajiks (Farsi of Central Asia). Although Tajiks are also very mixed with Mongoloid Steppes people full of EHG and Dravidians there is still some Western Iranic left in those people.

[MS85]

We seem to differ only in the assumption that I think there was a backwards migration to the west from the BMAC (steppe admixed) which you deny. Fair enough. ByeI don't deny that there was some minor migration from South Central Asia in the Iron Age. It is obvious that Parthians brought some South Central Asian elements to Western Iran.