Fst Distance tables for Europeans: England is much closer to Dernmark than to Wales. (wtf?)

[Bellbeaking]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=83953&d=1547518116

http://i64.tinypic.com/24q33tx.jpg

Distance from England in the first source: Irish Traveller study 2017 https://www.nature.com/articles/srep42187#supplementary-information


Scotland: 0.0004
Germany: 0.0007
France: 0.0008
Wales: 0.0009
Norway: 0.0010
Ireland: 0.0014
Spain: 0.0025 (Germany a little closer to Spain at 0.0024, And Ireland is very far from Spain(the Spain-Ireland myth just doesn't die)

Genetic distance from whole UK samples from the 2009 study, the only one I can find that isn't ancient and contains UK, Denmark and the Netherlands https://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2009/03/05/gr.083394.108.full.pdf

Netherlands: 0.00034
Denmark: 0.00045 (Uk belgium is about 0.0004-0.0005 In other tables: so these values could be correct)
Ireland: 0.00055 (seems much closer than the other study)
Sweden: 0.00091

UK-Denmark = 0.00045 vs England Wales at 0.0009? Whole UK sample was literally twice as close to Denmark as England is to Wales. I know mixing studies data isn't a great thing to do, but this still seems rather odd. Saxon ancestry was obviously a minority, though Scandi-UK connection dates back to the bell beakers.

Perhaps Wales was genetically isolated and suffered drift over time? Or more likely this just demonstrates that you cannot combine data from different studies very well!

Anyone got any other Fst Distance tables to compare to. Just skimming over random ones these studies appear very closely in line with other studies of FST distance for similarity between various European populations. such as this one
http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/camelsloop/fst.png Uk-Belgium 0.0005

[Bellbeaking]

I just think these tables are rather odd. England closer to Denmark than Wales is just a bizzare thing

[Bellbeaking]

https://i.imgur.com/MnniL9T.png

here is some k65 map of some brits

[Bellbeaking]

ill post more when I get them

[Bellbeaking]

hi

[Grace O'Malley]

Not a Brit but being Irish it is interesting to compare. Here's my map and my mothers. Some of your k36 maps numbers don't align correctly.

Mine

http://i65.tinypic.com/2gw5e12.jpg

Mother

http://i66.tinypic.com/10x9fkl.jpg

[Bellbeaking]

grace those are some absolutely good maps right there.

[Grace O'Malley]

grace those are some absolutely good maps right there.

These maps are interesting if you can get to see a good amount of them. There have been a few posted on here and other forums. You can see the trends in populations.

[Bellbeaking]

These maps are interesting if you can get to see a good amount of them. There have been a few posted on here and other forums. You can see the trends in populations.

what does one search to find them? ;)

[Bellbeaking]

k36 i assume, still dont find many on google.

[Russki]

Looks like Australia got overrun by the Irish.

[Lemminkäinen]

Fst-distances using 1000g and study datas. Run by Smartpca. You can do it.

https://i.ibb.co/C1BpQvL/Screenshot-20220118-151847.png

[Rafe]

I know of two studies comparing England's genetic distance to Denmark with its genetic distance to Wales, and both tell the same story: England is closer to Denmark.

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And it's not just Denmark. Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium also seem closer to England than Wales. So, the Germanic immigration must have had more of an impact on English DNA than we've been used to think. But even that is probably not the full story. England also seems closer to Ireland than to Wales, depending on the study; so Wales might have been through some genetic isolation or genetic drift, which will make FST distances longer.

[J. Ketch]

I know of two studies comparing England's genetic distance to Denmark with its genetic distance to Wales, and both tell the same story: England is closer to Denmark.

116402

116401

And it's not just Denmark. Germany, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium also seem closer. Seems like the Germanic immigration had much more of an impact on English DNA than we've been used to think. But even that is probably not the full story. England also seems closer to Ireland than to Wales, depending on the study, so it's also possible that Wales might have undergone genetic isolation or genetic drift, which tends to elongate FST measures.
That first table is interesting, is it from the recent Anglo-Saxon paper?

I believe it's true that English have more shared recent ancestry with Danes than with Welsh, and I guess that's what FST emphasises, but in a broader overall genetic sense England is closer to Wales, as seen in PCAs. So they're both true in a way.