Wanting insights into a particular line of thinking..

[Dna8]

Not being contrarian.. just trying to understand another point of view better..

ne pravim se pametan.. probam da razumem..

***

For those in favor of associating Slavicism with the development of the Serbian ethnos (at the expense of associating Illyrians/Thracians/Dacians etc) on account of genetics.. how do you reconcile the bolded parts below, with your point of view/ line of thinking?

I'm not trying to catch people out.. just wanting some insight..

Thanks

Hvala



I-L621 is typical of the South Slavic populations of south-eastern Europe, being highest in Bosnia-Herzegovina (>50%) in Bosniaks and Croats.[3] There is also a high concentration of I-L621 in north-east Romania and Moldova. Several groups have determined the common occurrence of this subclade in the South Slavic-speaking populations to be the result of "pre-Slavic" paleolithic settlement in the region. Peričić et al. for instance place its expansion to have occurred "not earlier than the YD to Holocene transition and not later than the early Neolithic".[2][16][17] The Slavic population can be divided into two genetically distinct groups: one encompassing all West Slavic (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, etc.) and the non-Slavic Hungarians, East Slavic (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, etc.) and a few South Slavic populations (north-western Croats and Slovenes), characterized by Haplogroup R1a, and one encompassing all remaining Southern Slavs (Serbs, Bosniaks, southern Croats, Montenegrins, Macedonians and Bulgarians) but also the non-Slavic Romanians, characterized by Haplogroup I2a1b2 (I-L621). According to Rebała et al., this phenomenon is explained by "contribution to the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the Balkan region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs".[18] It is attributed to the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture in what is now Ukraine, Romania and Moldova. L69/S163 was removed from I in 2011 and IJK in 2012.[19]

[Dna8]

Bump.

[Voskos]

I'll tell you a story, one day I was helping in a shop here in Greece and a woman walks in and starts talking with the owner in fluent Greek. I joined the discussion and asked her which village she's from, and she replied: ''I'm not Greek, I'm an immigrant from Republika Srpska, Bosnia''.

[CommonSense]

That's an outdated interpretation. It wouldn't make sense that I-L621 is 'paleo-Balkanic', because if that were the case it would be sparse outside of this region, but it's not. Over 15% of males in Ukraine and Belarus have it and it's found everywhere where it's historically noted that Slavic populations settled down (even if they were assimilated later). The fact that it's more common in the Dinaric Alps than in Belarus and Ukraine is a result of a bottleneck effect that occurred after the Ottoman conquest when many people were expulsed and killed. During the Middle Ages we can assume there was a much greater Y-DNA diversity and that R1a was the most common one.

If you want to hear more, you should ask Pribislav. This is basically his opinion too, but he's done more research and could explain it with greater detail.

[Cumansky]

Lets not go back so far in time yet, who lead fight against against Ottoman Empire, from my research the general is usually Y-DNA I2. Now you can argue fact is irrelevant, I would argue that they are native to the region and most likely from a noble family or else why they have urgency to fight? I2 is obvious who they are phenotypical, we distinct look that 8 or 9/ 10 Turks can identify right away..

Another example "Dorde Petrovic 1768-1817 Serbian revolutionary leader against Ottoman Empire I2a1b-CTS10228 (Dinaric North)"

When did Dinaric South cluster formed?

[Dna8]

That's an outdated interpretation. It wouldn't make sense that I-L621 is 'paleo-Balkanic', because if that were the case it would be sparse outside of this region, but it's not. Over 15% of males in Ukraine and Belarus have it and it's found everywhere where it's historically noted that Slavic populations settled down (even if they were assimilated later). The fact that it's more common in the Dinaric Alps than in Belarus and Ukraine is a result of a bottleneck effect that occurred after the Ottoman conquest when many people were expulsed and killed. During the Middle Ages we can assume there was a much greater Y-DNA diversity and that R1a was the most common one.

If you want to hear more, you should ask Pribislav. This is basically his opinion too, but he's done more research and could explain it with greater detail.

Thanks for replying..

I don't understand how these scientists could confuse neolithic/paleolithic themes with notions you say are more relevant to the Ottoman period?

^Seems an extreme discord in interpretation (How is this possible in the context of seemingly hard science like genetics?)..

[Dna8]

Lets not go back so far in time yet, who lead fight against against Ottoman Empire, from my research the general is usually Y-DNA I2. Now you can argue fact is irrelevant, I would argue that they are native to the region and most likely from a noble family or else why they have urgency to fight? I2 is obvious who they are phenotypical, we distinct look that 8 or 9/ 10 Turks can identify right away..

Another example "Dorde Petrovic 1768-1817 Serbian revolutionary leader against Ottoman Empire I2a1b-CTS10228 (Dinaric North)"

When did Dinaric South cluster formed?

Still, it seems very odd that genetic data some scientists interpreted as relevant to the paleolithic/neolithic, can be interpreted by others as actually having to do with consequences of the Ottoman empire in the Balkans..

How is such an extreme difference in interpretation possible?

[Dna8]

I'll tell you a story, one day I was helping in a shop here in Greece and a woman walks in and starts talking with the owner in fluent Greek. I joined the discussion and asked her which village she's from, and she replied: ''I'm not Greek, I'm an immigrant from Republika Srpska, Bosnia''.

Your story indicates disbelief in the association of Slavs at the expense of Thracians et al, in the context of Serbian ethnos' development?

[Dna8]

le bump.