Gedmatch from Dalmatia

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This dude is Croat who's fully native to Dalmatia in last 600 years. Haplogroup J2

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 34.39
2 North_Atlantic 26.92
3 West_Med 14.89
4 East_Med 12.56
5 West_Asian 5.67
6 Siberian 1.91
7 South_Asian 1.28
8 Red_Sea 1.22
9 Oceanian 0.51
10 Amerindian 0.47
11 Sub-Saharan 0.11
12 East_Asian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 4.06
2 Moldavian 4.68
3 Hungarian 6.31
4 Serbian 7.81
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.58
6 South_Polish 10.01
7 Ukrainian 10.49
8 Austrian 10.74
9 East_German 10.81
10 Romanian 11.55
11 Polish 13.5
12 Bulgarian 13.63
13 Southwest_Russian 14.01
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.73
15 Russian_Smolensk 15.64
16 Estonian_Polish 15.85
17 Belorussian 16.42
18 Kargopol_Russian 17.85
19 West_German 18.05
20 Southwest_Finnish 18.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.9% Estonian_Polish + 38.1% Tuscan @ 1.73
2 62.8% Southwest_Russian + 37.2% North_Italian @ 1.99
3 52.3% Estonian + 47.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.05
4 71.3% Ukrainian + 28.7% Tuscan @ 2.17
5 64.8% Southwest_Russian + 35.2% Tuscan @ 2.19
6 54.9% Lithuanian + 45.1% Tuscan @ 2.2
7 74.1% Ukrainian + 25.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.21
8 61.1% Belorussian + 38.9% Tuscan @ 2.43
9 65.2% Estonian_Polish + 34.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.45
10 79.7% South_Polish + 20.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.53
11 59.5% Estonian + 40.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.53
12 62.3% Russian_Smolensk + 37.7% Tuscan @ 2.54
13 78.9% Ukrainian + 21.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.56
14 68% Serbian + 32% Estonian_Polish @ 2.59
15 62.6% Estonian + 37.4% South_Italian @ 2.64
16 58% Serbian + 42% Ukrainian @ 2.68
17 69.4% South_Polish + 30.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.7
18 59.9% Bulgarian + 40.1% Estonian @ 2.74
19 79.8% South_Polish + 20.2% Italian_Jewish @ 2.74
20 58.4% Lithuanian + 41.6% West_Sicilian @ 2.77

MDLP K16 modern

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NorthEastEuropean 27.32
2 Caucasian 25.92
3 Neolithic 24.71
4 Steppe 19.38
5 Siberian 0.94
6 NearEast 0.55
7 NorthAfrican 0.48
8 Oceanic 0.3
9 SouthEastAsian 0.27
10 Indian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croat (Croatia) 2.6
2 Hungarian (Hungary) 3.1
3 Hungarian (Budapest) 3.48
4 Slovenian (Slovenia) 3.82
5 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 3.83
6 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 3.93
7 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 4.23
8 Slovak (Slovakia) 4.4
9 German_Lipsian ((Saxony)) 4.48
10 Pole (EastPoland) 4.86
11 Pole (Wroclaw) 4.98
12 Czech (Czechia) 5.05
13 Cossack (Zaporozhie) 5.16
14 Ukrainian (Ukraine) 5.67
15 Austrian (Austria) 5.73
16 Ukrainians_west (WestUkraine) 5.88
17 Dutch (Netherlands) 6.01
18 Sorb (Lusatia) 6.04
19 Pole (WestPoland) 6.06
20 German (Germany) 6.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.7% Pole (EastPoland) + 32.3% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 1.63
2 67.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 32.9% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 1.87
3 90.9% Pole (EastPoland) + 9.1% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.9
4 78.6% Pole (EastPoland) + 21.4% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 1.9
5 78.6% Pole (EastPoland) + 21.4% Albanian (Albania) @ 1.91
6 81.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 18.9% Greek (Macedonia) @ 1.95
7 51.2% Belarusian (Belarus) + 48.8% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 1.97
8 58.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 41.9% Serbian (Serbia) @ 2
9 58.6% Serbian (Serbia) + 41.4% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.01
10 54.4% Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) + 45.6% Pole (EastPoland) @ 2.05
11 66.7% Pole (Wroclaw) + 33.3% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.06
12 66.1% Belarusian (Belarus) + 33.9% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.07
13 73.7% Croat (Croatia) + 26.3% Pole (EastPoland) @ 2.08
14 84.8% Croat (Croatia) + 15.2% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.08
15 84.2% Croat (Croatia) + 15.8% Pole (Poland) @ 2.1
16 79.3% Pole (EastPoland) + 20.7% Greek (Greece) @ 2.11
17 76.2% Pole (EastPoland) + 23.8% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.11
18 54.3% Montenegrian (Montenegro) + 45.7% Belarusian (Belarus) @ 2.12
19 75% Croat (Croatia) + 25% Pole (Wroclaw) @ 2.13
20 89.1% Pole (EastPoland) + 10.9% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.14

Puntdnal K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 53.13
2 Mediterranean 28.4
3 Caucasian 10.41
4 SW_Asian 4.11
5 Horn_Of_Africa 0.96
6 Beringian 0.94
7 S_Indian 0.93
8 Siberian 0.87
9 Oceanian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 2.94
2 Croatian 3.11
3 Austrian 3.21
4 Slovenian 3.74
5 Irish 3.92
6 South_German 4.38
7 Utahn_White 4.41
8 Orcadian 4.45
9 English 4.67
10 North_German 5.67
11 Scottish 6.09
12 Serbian 6.57
13 Norwegian 6.99
14 French 7.29
15 Swedish 9.06
16 Bosnian 10.72
17 Polish 11.91
18 Macedonian 12.21
19 Romanian 13.53
20 Bulgarian 14.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.7% Norwegian + 11.3% Druze @ 0.94
2 50.6% Belarusian + 49.4% Italian @ 1.03
3 85.5% Swedish + 14.5% Samaritian @ 1.12
4 87.7% Norwegian + 12.3% Lebanese @ 1.14
5 54.4% Polish + 45.6% Bulgarian @ 1.15
6 87.9% Norwegian + 12.1% Palestinian @ 1.16
7 86.8% Hungarian + 13.2% Spaniard @ 1.2
8 88.2% Norwegian + 11.8% Jordanian @ 1.21
9 88.5% Norwegian + 11.5% Samaritian @ 1.22
10 60.8% Norwegian + 39.2% Bosnian @ 1.24
11 88.2% Norwegian + 11.8% Iraqi_Jew @ 1.27
12 84.7% Swedish + 15.3% Cypriot @ 1.27
13 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Syrian @ 1.28
14 83.4% Slovenian + 16.6% Spaniard @ 1.29
15 92.8% Slovenian + 7.2% Sardinian @ 1.32
16 66.7% Polish + 33.3% Albanian @ 1.33
17 53.2% Polish + 46.8% Romanian @ 1.33
18 57.4% Polish + 42.6% Montenegrin @ 1.35
19 78.9% Swedish + 21.1% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 1.38
20 90.5% Hungarian + 9.5% Basque @ 1.39

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 21.58
2 North_Sea 20.18
3 Eastern_Euro 14.94
4 Atlantic 14.62
5 West_Med 10.98
6 East_Med 8.69
7 West_Asian 5.03
8 Red_Sea 1.29
9 South_Asian 1.11
10 Siberian 0.97
11 Oceanian 0.43
12 Amerindian 0.16
13 Sub-Saharan 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.76
2 Croatian 4.2
3 Hungarian 5.2
4 Serbian 7.89
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.95
6 Austrian 8.43
7 Ukrainian 8.61
8 South_Polish 8.75
9 East_German 10.24
10 Romanian 10.5
11 Polish 11.38
12 Russian_Smolensk 12.49
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.79
14 Bulgarian 12.91
15 Southwest_Russian 13.01
16 Belorussian 14.37
17 Estonian_Polish 14.42
18 Southwest_Finnish 14.81
19 Finnish 14.89
20 Kargopol_Russian 15.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76% Ukrainian + 24% West_Sicilian @ 1.61
2 73.1% Ukrainian + 26.9% Tuscan @ 1.78
3 79.9% Ukrainian + 20.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.02
4 70.1% Ukrainian + 29.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.03
5 75.3% Ukrainian + 24.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.08
6 78.1% Ukrainian + 21.9% South_Italian @ 2.11
7 80.5% Ukrainian + 19.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.17
8 76.5% Ukrainian + 23.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.18
9 76% Ukrainian + 24% Central_Greek @ 2.27
10 52.4% Serbian + 47.6% Ukrainian @ 2.36
11 77.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.1% West_Sicilian @ 2.41
12 80.5% Ukrainian + 19.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.41
13 71.8% Ukrainian + 28.2% Greek @ 2.42
14 75.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 24.9% Tuscan @ 2.5
15 50.2% Serbian + 49.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.51
16 70% South_Polish + 30% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.55
17 63.8% Polish + 36.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.58
18 75.7% Ukrainian + 24.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.61
19 55.4% Ukrainian + 44.6% Romanian @ 2.63
20 55.7% Estonian + 44.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.76

K15 PCA (thanks to Jana)
https://i.imgur.com/PCUruXQ.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Another Croatian dude Anđelko plotted this guy on K13 PCA (never seen that type of map before though)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt4bk226vmjg7jz/K13Cybril.png?dl=0

K15 PCA

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5bcn6tnnujj7lje/K15Cybril.png?dl=0

He goes by name Cybril

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This kinda confirms what I tought, Dalmatians aren't very southern shifted they are in fact more eastern shifted compared to north Croats and Slovenes. This guy seem very Slavic with some Illyrian but lacks German type of admix north has. not suprised Dalmatia has more Slavic YDNA than north Croatia, seem to reflect in autosomal also. His haplogroup is some kind of native Balkan though

[Pribislav]

This kinda confirms what I tought, Dalmatians aren't very southern shifted they are in fact more eastern shifted compared to north Croats and Slovenes. This guy seem very Slavic with some Illyrian but lacks German type of admix north has. not suprised Dalmatia has more Slavic YDNA than north Croatia, seem to reflect in autosomal also. His haplogroup is some kind of native Balkan though

Jana was very angry when somebody connects Dalmatians with Italians, Romans, Vlachs, Albanians, paleo-Balkanites... https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235677-Dalmatians-aren-Romance-people!

Do you know which branch of R1b is Dalmatian guy noliđ from forum.hr?

[Ayetooey]

If this guy is true pre ottoman migrations native Dalmatian his results make sense; I would like to see results of a Croat from Dalmatian hinterland; many of them came from Herzegovina along with Serbs fleeing Ottomans during late middle ages, I would guess they would plot differently.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Jana was very angry when somebody connects Dalmatians with Italians, Romand, Vlachs, Albanians, paleo-Balkanites... https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?235677-Dalmatians-aren-Romance-people!

Do you know which branch of R1b is Dalmatian guy noliđ from forum.hr?

Yes i know. Dude is probably Balkanic branch or maybe Italian but not sure. Dalmatians look like mix of Slavs and Vlachs and not much more. But Slavic element is very strong, she's right about that.
they aren't central euros because they have no german dna at all. more like east slav with some balkan, what do you think ?

[Insuperable]

Yes i know. Dude is probably Balkanic branch or maybe Italian but not sure. Dalmatians look like mix of Slavs and Vlachs and not much more. But Slavic element is very strong, she's right about that.
they aren't central euros because they have no german dna at all. more like east slav with some balkan, what do you think ?

Same as northern Croats.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

If this guy is true pre ottoman migrations native Dalmatian his results make sense; I would like to see results of a Croat from Dalmatian hinterland; many of them came from Herzegovina along with Serbs fleeing Ottomans during late middle ages, I would guess they would plot differently.

Yeah looks like he is, if he is native to Dalmatia for 600 years it's pre-Ottoman period. I think some dude from hinterland posted his results, I'll go to see if I can find them.
don't know which part od dalmatia is this guy from though, Jana asked him but he hasn't answered yet.

[Leto]

This dude is Croat who's fully native to Dalmatia in last 600 years. Haplogroup J2

Add Dodecad K12 please.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Same as northern Croats.

That's not true man, north Croats are more like Slovenians, mix of Slavic, Germans and Vlachs and more western shifted. Dalmatians are just Slavs with Vlachs and no Germans, but probably more Slavic than north Croats overall.

[Ayetooey]

Yeah looks like he is, if he is native to Dalmatia for 600 years it's pre-Ottoman period. I think some dude from hinterland posted his results, I'll go to see if I can find them.
don't know which part od dalmatia is this guy from though, Jana asked him but he hasn't answered yet.

Since he is pre-ottoman I would guess the coast or an island, its more the inland which was cleared out of the original inhabitants and replaced with orthodox and catholic Herzegovinians. This guy plots like Islander Jana if I recall her results correctly.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Insuperable could you post your Eurogenes or something ? I recall you're pretty southern shifted but would be nice to take a look at your results. What's your haplogroup mate ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Add Dodecad K12 please.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 43.38
2 Atlantic_Med 26.56
3 Caucasus 16.44
4 Gedrosia 5.61
5 Southwest_Asian 4.31
6 Siberian 1.85
7 South_Asian 1.13
8 Northwest_African 0.73

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 5.25
2 German (Dodecad) 10.21
3 Romanians (Behar) 13.14
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 15.07
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 15.5
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 15.6
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 16.75
8 French (Dodecad) 19.1
9 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 19.27
10 Kent (1000Genomes) 19.33
11 English (Dodecad) 19.48
12 French (HGDP) 19.52
13 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.67
14 Polish (Dodecad) 20.1
15 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 20.33
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 20.48
17 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.48
18 Argyll (1000Genomes) 21.39
19 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 21.74
20 Orkney (1000Genomes) 21.82

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.4% N_Italian (Dodecad) + 48.6% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.19
2 56.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 43.2% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.51
3 51.5% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 48.5% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.51
4 90.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.9% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.53
5 52.7% N_Italian (Dodecad) + 47.3% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.55
6 60.2% Romanians (Behar) + 39.8% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.6
7 58.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 41.3% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.72
8 91.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.1% Iranians (Behar) @ 2.72
9 90.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.74
10 92.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.9% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.78
11 91.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.2% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.78
12 91% Hungarians (Behar) + 9% Turkmens (Yunusbayev) @ 2.85
13 91.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.3% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.85
14 92.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.6% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.88
15 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Iranian (Dodecad) @ 2.9
16 92% Hungarians (Behar) + 8% Kurd (Dodecad) @ 2.92
17 57.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 42.2% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.92
18 88.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.1% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.93
19 59.9% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 40.1% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.95
20 89% Hungarians (Behar) + 11% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.98

[Pribislav]

Yes i know. Dude is probably Balkanic branch or maybe Italian but not sure. Dalmatians look like mix of Slavs and Vlachs and not much more. But Slavic element is very strong, she's right about that.
they aren't central euros because they have no german dna at all. more like east slav with some balkan, what do you think ?

From current researches it's seems that Dalmatian paleo-Balkanic dna mostly came from female lines. I mean if I21b2a1 arrived with Slavs as we think that is according current knowledge.

Germanic y dna in Dalmatia is ancient, from Goths. I1 is about 5% in Dalmatia (Croatians).

Dalmatian Serbs have high I1, and their I1 is also long time present in Balkans and mostly came from Macure and Drobnjak clans from modern Montenegro
https://forum.krstarica.com/cache-img/3/a/3adb311e0ed5af81b18f03440c228f62.jpg

[Ayetooey]

From current researches it's seems that Dalmatian paleo-Balkanic dna mostly came from female lines. I mean if I21b2a1 arrived with Slavs as we think that is according current knowledge.

Germanic y dna in Dalmatia is ancient, from Goths. I1 is about 5% in Dalmatia (Croatians).

Dalmatian Serbs have high I1, and their I1 is also long time present in Balkans and mostly came from Macure and Drobnjak clans from modern Montenegro
[IMG]

Very high in Sandzak Serbs also, modern day Sandzak Serbs also came from Montenegro afaik, since native Serbs from Raska fled north to Vojovodina.

[IncelSlayer]

What's his J2 subclade and which region of Dalmatia?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Since he is pre-ottoman I would guess the coast or an island, its more the inland which was cleared out of the original inhabitants and replaced with orthodox and catholic Herzegovinians. This guy plots like Islander Jana if I recall her results correctly.

I found dude from Dalmatian hinterland (Noliđ who Pribislav mentioned with R1b haplogroup).


Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 6.700117
2 Croatian @ 7.640892
3 Moldavian @ 7.788265
4 Austrian @ 8.756178
5 Hungarian @ 9.449518
6 Romanian @ 10.342553
7 East_German @ 12.160614
8 Bulgarian @ 12.897143
9 South_Polish @ 14.825108
10 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 15.004551
11 Ukrainian @ 15.454978
12 Polish @ 17.280268
13 South_Dutch @ 18.397409
14 Russian_Smolensk @ 18.405205
15 French @ 18.520653
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 19.081572
17 Southwest_Russian @ 19.485125
18 North_Italian @ 19.518188
19 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.837717
20 West_German @ 19.970200

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Italian +50% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.062056


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Moldavian +25% Moldavian +25% Southwest_French @ 3.418795


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian + Erzya + Moldavian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.840427
2 Erzya + Moldavian + Romanian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.994516
3 Bulgarian + Kargopol_Russian + Moldavian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.014893
4 Erzya + Romanian + Serbian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.122534
5 Erzya + Romanian + Serbian + Southwest_French @ 3.123722
6 Erzya + Greek + Spanish_Cantabria + Ukrainian @ 3.126212
7 Croatian + Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.128805
8 Croatian + Erzya + Greek_Thessaly + Southwest_French @ 3.142101
9 Erzya + Moldavian + Romanian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.148498
10 Erzya + Moldavian + Serbian + Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.168639
11 Bulgarian + Erzya + Serbian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.174786
12 Erzya + Spanish_Cantabria + Tuscan + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.185903
13 Bulgarian + Croatian + Erzya + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.186391
14 Erzya + Moldavian + Romanian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.207438
15 Erzya + North_Italian + North_Italian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.208443
16 Bulgarian + Erzya + Moldavian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.223773
17 Bulgarian + Erzya + Moldavian + Southwest_French @ 3.224272
18 Erzya + Greek + Spanish_Cantabria + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.241484
19 Erzya + North_Italian + North_Italian + Ukrainian @ 3.252313
20 Erzya + Moldavian + Serbian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.253106

K15



North_Sea 17.49
Atlantic 18.07
Baltic 16.83
Eastern_Euro 15.40
West_Med 14.52
West_Asian 6.54
East_Med 7.67
Red_Sea 2.07
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.15
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.59
Oceanian 0.66
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.2% Moldavian + 23.8% Southwest_French @ 2.96
2 78.5% Moldavian + 21.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.06
3 76.8% Moldavian + 23.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.07
4 77.4% Moldavian + 22.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.09
5 76.8% Moldavian + 23.2% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.18
6 77.1% Moldavian + 22.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.23
7 83.3% Moldavian + 16.7% French_Basque @ 3.24
8 76% Moldavian + 24% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.43
9 56.1% North_Italian + 43.9% Erzya @ 3.46
10 76.8% Moldavian + 23.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.51
11 75.2% Moldavian + 24.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.57
12 50.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.9% North_Italian @ 3.59
13 50.5% North_Italian + 49.5% Southwest_Russian @ 3.64
14 75.4% Moldavian + 24.6% Portuguese @ 3.68
15 76.3% Moldavian + 23.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.7
16 87% Croatian + 13% Sardinian @ 3.78
17 74.5% Croatian + 25.5% North_Italian @ 3.79
18 53% North_Italian + 47% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.89
19 75.2% Moldavian + 24.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.94
20 77.4% Croatian + 22.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 4.06


His position on K15 PCA (again thanks to Jana)
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2941ag0.jpg

[Insuperable]

If this guy is true pre ottoman migrations native Dalmatian his results make sense; I would like to see results of a Croat from Dalmatian hinterland; many of them came from Herzegovina along with Serbs fleeing Ottomans during late middle ages, I would guess they would plot differently.

Croats from Bosnia and southern Croatia are pretty much similar. Global Similarity maps of Croats (not sure about one guy but nvm) on my 23andme list before they were removed.


Dalmatia, I2a2a, U5b1
http://i59.tinypic.com/2vlmx35.png

Dalmatia and Croats of Boka Kotorska, HV (female, no father's Y-dna listed)
http://i61.tinypic.com/2duvx0.png

Bosnia, It says just H (female)
http://i57.tinypic.com/2m4wzdh.png

Bosnia, It says just I2 and T2 or mtdna
http://i62.tinypic.com/2yvkvp4.png

Dalmatia, I2a2a, U3a2
http://i61.tinypic.com/2r2ak3o.png

Dalmatia, H (female)
http://i62.tinypic.com/zoolx.png

Dalmatia, I2a2b, U5b1b
http://i57.tinypic.com/35k7abs.png

Slavonia, R1a1a*, H1
http://i57.tinypic.com/33keywz.png

Dalmatia (it says deep family ties in Dubrovnik), I2a2a, I1a1 (mtdna)
http://i59.tinypic.com/n47hqh.png

Several regions, I2a2b, H
http://i57.tinypic.com/1551n9d.png

Dalmatia, I1*, HV5
http://i61.tinypic.com/261110l.png

Places near Zagreb, R1a1a, U5a2c
http://i60.tinypic.com/25i5008.png

Dalmatia (Dubrovnik), E1b1b1a2, H1b
http://i60.tinypic.com/2dkh5xe.png

Dalmatia, I1*, Jc14
http://i61.tinypic.com/ja8hdv.png

Western Herzegovina (+ some from Dalmatia), father is I2a2b (she is female), U7
http://i60.tinypic.com/9ifn6a.png

[Insuperable]

American Croat, I don't know where he is from exactly, R1a1a*, U2e
http://i58.tinypic.com/25sr4tk.png

Western Herzegovina, I2a2b, U8b
http://i60.tinypic.com/108e16w.png

Around Zagreb, I2a2b, H3
http://i60.tinypic.com/2mzej4i.png

Western Herzegovina, I2a2, V1a
http://i62.tinypic.com/bip7hx.png

Australian Croat (I am guessing he is from Herzegovina or Bosnia), I2a2, U4a2c
http://i58.tinypic.com/2mr5j5d.png

Just 'below' Slovenia towards Istria, U5a2b (female)
http://i59.tinypic.com/20j5s9e.png

Dalmatia, I2a2b, H
http://i59.tinypic.com/14smd1x.png

Dalmatia/Herzegovina and Bosnia the other side, U8b
http://i59.tinypic.com/2nv7bqf.png

Says near Hungarian border, G2a, H5a1
http://i62.tinypic.com/34zbp04.png

NW Lika, it says just H (female)
http://i57.tinypic.com/2qxqidz.png

Dalmatia, V1a (female)
http://i59.tinypic.com/11kl7xx.png

Around Zagreb, R1a1a, HV
http://i58.tinypic.com/ezodpw.png

Western Herzegovina, Slavonia H10a (female)
http://i60.tinypic.com/28me6ur.png

Slavonia, R1a1a, H1
http://i58.tinypic.com/4s1t9t.png

Dalmatia and Bosnia, I1*, H1
http://i58.tinypic.com/30djz34.png

[Insuperable]

Dalmatia, I2a2a, U5b1
http://i59.tinypic.com/2hwnszn.png

Around Zagreb and Istra, I1*, N1b1
http://i60.tinypic.com/29vkjdu.png

Places around Zagreb, R1a1a, H5a
http://i62.tinypic.com/30k3r5u.png

[Pribislav]

Very high in Sandzak Serbs also, modern day Sandzak Serbs also came from Montenegro afaik, since native Serbs from Raska fled north to Vojovodina.

Yes.
Sandžak Serb I1 is 100% Drobnjak P109.
Dalmatian Serb I1 is Drobnjak P109 and Macura Z63, with some other in small %.
According to some researches I1 is over 20% among Dalmatian Serbs 42:30-42:40 https://youtu.be/rP9YuK8c50Q?t=2550
On statistic on Poreklo I1 is about 16% among Dalmatian Serbs on solid sample.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

What's his J2 subclade and which region of Dalmatia?

don't know yet. I guess islander or coastal probably

[Ayetooey]

Insuperable (or anyone else) do you know of any gedmatch results from Kijevo, or neighbouring (ethnic Croat) villages?

[IncelSlayer]

don't know yet. I guess islander or coastal probably

What's islander or coastal?Remind me if he gets J-M92 so I can laugh at this "croatian".

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

What's islander or coastal?Remind me if he gets J-M92 so I can laugh at this "croatian".

He is prolly not from inland Dalmatia (hinterland) if his family is native to the area for more than 600 years, in hinterland population replacement occured (Bosnian Croats moved in and Serbs). islanders and coastal Croats are those older than ottoman migrations, from Slavs who settled to Dalmatia from Poland or something lol. His haplogroup is native to the region though yes.

[Insuperable]

Insuperable could you post your Eurogenes or something ? I recall you're pretty southern shifted but would be nice to take a look at your results. What's your haplogroup mate ?

I could, but I'd rather not. I am not only pretty southern shifted, but the most southern shifted Croat out of all Croat samples I saw, including Croats from my very region who can be pretty northern shifted. Which puzzles me a lot. Here Bosniensis posted one guy from my region.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221122-Croatian-vs-Serbian-Eurogenes-K13
https://i.imgur.com/ckxgoVD.png

You and Ayetooey would like to see my results and as typical anthrotards you will take my results and project them on thousands of people. Which is the reason why I don't post my results.


Insuperable (or anyone else) do you know of any gedmatch results from Kijevo, or neighbouring (ethnic Croat) villages?

Sorry, I don't.

[Ayetooey]

He is prolly not from inland Dalmatia (hinterland) if his family is native to the area for more than 600 years, in hinterland population replacement occured (Bosnian Croats moved in and Serbs). islanders and coastal Croats are those older than ottoman migrations, from Slavs who settled to Dalmatia from Poland or something lol. His haplogroup is native to the region though yes.

His Y dna may actually be a native pre slavic dalmatian one even, I am sure native samples in Dalmatia have been found with that Y dna.

[Dalmatinac]

People often neglect the climate and its influence. Dalmatians which are native here for at least 500 years or so tend to be darker on average because of huge amount of sunshine hours, not because of genetics. My father is from Sumartin, a small fishing village in central Dalmatia, which was the sunniest town in Croatia for a few years in a row (it overtook sunny Hvar) and one of the most sunniest places in Europe easily comparable to some towns in Greece or Spain. If I continue to live here, my descendants will, in many generations, all have at least Fitzpatrick skin type 4 with dark olive complexion. It's just the way body adopts itself to outer influence, in this case very harmful UV rays. Otherwise, we would all get melanoma at some point of our lives.

[Ayetooey]

People often neglect the climate and its influence. Dalmatians which are native here for at least 500 years or so tend to be darker on average because of huge amount of sunshine hours, not because of genetics. My father is from Sumartin, a small fishing village in central Dalmatia, which was the sunniest town in Croatia for a few years in a row (it overtook sunny Hvar) and one of the most sunniest places in Europe easily comparable to some towns in Greece or Spain. If I continue to live here, my descendants will, in many generations, all have at least Fitzpatrick skin type 4 with dark olive complexion. It's just the way body adopts itself to outer influence, in this case very harmful UV rays. Otherwise, we would all get melanoma at some point of our lives.

No one said Dalmatians are dark, the topic isn't even about that. You've been drinking too much of the good stuff in your avatar mate.

What you say is correct though, Australian outback farmers have the same thing even though they are 100% NW Euro usually.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

No one said Dalmatians are dark, the topic isn't even about that. You've been drinking too much of the good stuff in your avatar mate.

What you say is correct though, Australian outback farmers have the same thing even though they are 100% NW Euro usually.

they are though. must admit i am suprised how much slavic shifted they are, guess climate plays a big factor when it comes to pigmentation. they're mostly tanned, light features are common enough but less than in north croatia. facial features are biggest difference imo

[Insuperable]

He is prolly not from inland Dalmatia (hinterland) if his family is native to the area for more than 600 years, in hinterland population replacement occured (Bosnian Croats moved in and Serbs). islanders and coastal Croats are those older than ottoman migrations, from Slavs who settled to Dalmatia from Poland or something lol. His haplogroup is native to the region though yes.

This guy that I posted is almost fully islander (with ancestry from several islands. I forgot by now, but maybe some are southern islands) with some ancestry from coastal area.
Dalmatia, I1*, HV5
http://i61.tinypic.com/261110l.png

Meanwhile one of those more northern shifted southern Croats is from the more northern Dalmatian islands. It is not like islanders and coastal ones have entirely similar plotting.

[Ayetooey]

they are though. must admit i am suprised how much slavic shifted they are, guess climate plays a big factor when it comes to pigmentation. they're mostly tanned, light features are common enough but less than in north croatia

They're dark to my eyes but I've only been in the region in the heart of the summer so I guess everyone's kinda dark then.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I could, but I'd rather not.

Tell us at least your haplogroup man. Thanks for contribution also.

[Insuperable]

Tell us at least your haplogroup man. Thanks for contribution also.

R1b (don't know which clade), probably some Balkan one and T2b5.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

They're dark to my eyes but I've only been in the region in the heart of the summer so I guess everyone's kinda dark then.

Blond hair is rare in Dalmatia I'm pretty sure, but it's relatively common in north Croatia. Even red hair isn't hard to find. In Dalmatia everyone's mostly dark haired except tiny minority. But blue eyes are common everywhere in Croatia.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

R1b (don't know which clade), probably some Balkan one and T2b5.

Aryan brother :thumb001:

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You should try Wegene bro, it told me my subclade same as Morley did.

[Dalmatinac]

No one said Dalmatians are dark, the topic isn't even about that. You've been drinking too much of the good stuff in your avatar mate.

What you say is correct though, Australian outback farmers have the same thing even though they are 100% NW Euro usually.

I wrote it because people are surprised about dalmatian genetic results even though dalmatians are much tanner than central or northern europeans

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Dalmatian dude K36 similarity map

https://i.imgur.com/Cg3xKe9.png

[Alenka]

That's not true man, north Croats are more like Slovenians, mix of Slavic, Germans and Vlachs and more western shifted. Dalmatians are just Slavs with Vlachs and no Germans, but probably more Slavic than north Croats overall.
Something interesting I've thought about is also the possibility of the pre-Slavic population of N.Croatia/Slovenia being more western shifted to begin with. Maybe it was more Italo-Celtic compared to the admix Dalmatians absorbed? Here's some maps that would support this theory:
https://i.imgur.com/crmDtTV.gif
https://i.imgur.com/HTafS9L.png
https://i.imgur.com/9mqbNAj.gif
https://i.imgur.com/mA6QAIc.gif
Dalmatians and some other South Slavs could have absorbed more of a Thracian/Greek-like component?

[Aspirin]

Jana was very angry when somebody connects Dalmatians with Italians, Romans, Vlachs, Albanians, paleo-Balkanites...


Dalmatians look like mix of Slavs and Vlachs and not much more.


That's not true man, north Croats are more like Slovenians, mix of Slavic, Germans and Vlachs and more western shifted.

https://pp.userapi.com/c847123/v847123694/181d29/VWwF99_fcVA.jpg

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Something interesting I've thought about is also the possibility of the pre-Slavic population of N.Croatia/Slovenia being more western shifted to begin with. Maybe it was more Italo-Celtic compared to the admix Dalmatians absorbed? Here's some maps that would support this theory:
https://i.imgur.com/crmDtTV.gif
https://i.imgur.com/HTafS9L.png
https://i.imgur.com/9mqbNAj.gif
https://i.imgur.com/mA6QAIc.gif
Dalmatians and some other South Slavs could have absorbed more of a Thracian/Greek-like component?

I saw Jana mentioned similar view in some of her earlier posts and have to say it does make sense. There were Keltic tribes in Slovenia and North Croatia Dalmatia never had.
they could bring this western shift and some Italic influence also, what do you think ? Illyrians in Dalmatia were probably close to Greeks and very southeastern shifted imo

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Slovenia and North Croatia have more than 20% R1b and most of it is western branches. Dalmatia has like few percent of R1b only and most of it is eastern Balkan branch.
There's a big difference when it comes to that.

[Insuperable]

they are though. must admit i am suprised how much slavic shifted they are, guess climate plays a big factor when it comes to pigmentation. they're mostly tanned, light features are common enough but less than in north croatia. facial features are biggest difference imo

No, they are not really. Tan is a stupid factor in determining how dark someone is. Are people really not able to look pass tan? I was in Varaždin some time ago and nothing light about people from there compared to southern Croats. Maybe I had high expectations. Otoh hand people from Herzegovina are darker.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i19ZgxBYPnY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kKmjSLal1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZk6xGsg7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11a4FXh9nAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6-8iqJ3nAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDsg_SrKm4&t=219s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlGQRUm1SUE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0eeCtkd9HM

[Lucas]

I saw Jana mentioned similar view in some of her earlier posts and have to say it does make sense. There were Keltic tribes in Slovenia and North Croatia Dalmatia never had.
they could bring this western shift and some Italic influence also, what do you think ? Illyrians in Dalmatia were probably close to Greeks and very southeastern shifted imo

Also Goths stayed for some time in NW Balkans and later it was part of their Italian kingdom.

[Insuperable]

I saw Jana mentioned similar view in some of her earlier posts and have to say it does make sense. There were Keltic tribes in Slovenia and North Croatia Dalmatia never had.
they could bring this western shift and some Italic influence also, what do you think ? Illyrians in Dalmatia were probably close to Greeks and very southeastern shifted imo

Most of southern cities not founded by Croats were founded by Greek colonists. That is true.

[Dick]

Also Goths stayed for some time in NW Balkans and later it was part of their Italian kingdom.

I think that’s over rated

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

No, they are not really. Tan is a stupid factor in determining how dark someone is. Are people really not able to look pass tan? I was in Varaždin some time ago and nothing light about people from there compared to southern Croats. Maybe I had high expectations. Otoh hand people from Herzegovina are darker.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i19ZgxBYPnY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kKmjSLal1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZk6xGsg7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11a4FXh9nAs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6-8iqJ3nAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDsg_SrKm4&t=219s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlGQRUm1SUE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0eeCtkd9HM

how is Herzegovina darker, they look close to Dalmatians in my view. Maybe I exeggarated their darkness, but north Croats are for sure lighter. Or you are sending us only dark ones xD

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

People in these videos aren't dark, but they have different facial features from north Croats and it's pretty visible.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think that’s over rated

NW Croats and Slovenians have lot of Germanic. Slovenes are most German shifted Slavs, more than Czechs.

[Insuperable]

how is Herzegovina darker, they look close to Dalmatians in my view. Maybe I exeggarated their darkness, but north Croats are for sure lighter. Or you are sending us only dark ones xD

Or maybe you are full of shit and want every darkie in Croatia ascribe to southern Croats and preserve the view of Germanic Central European North Croatia to the outside world. Jk. Like I said I haven't seen any noticeable difference. Maybe I haven't enter the full anthrotard mode. I don't know how, they just look darker. With rougher faces, balkanic vibe and darker skin tone (even during winter). More prominent among older generations compared to older generations of southern Croatia. Though they are getting different from generation to generation.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Or maybe you are full of shit and want every darkie in Croatia ascribe to southern Croats and preserve the view of Germanic Central European North Croatia to the outside world. Jk. Like I said I haven't seen any noticeable difference. Maybe I haven't enter the full anthrotard mode. I don't know how, they just look darker. With rougher faces, balkanic vibe and darker skin tone (even during winter). More prominent among older generations compared to older generations of southern Croatia. Though they are getting different from generation to generation.

Dinarics are more in Herzegovina than anywhere else, probably you mean that.

[Lucas]

Some NW Croats appear as Slovenes on Gedmatch.

[Dick]

NW Croats and Slovenians have lot of Germanic. Slovenes are most German shifted Slavs, more than Czechs.

It's probably more recent like from the Middle ages.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It's probably more recent like from the Middle ages.

Agree with you man. I'm thinking to make new thread about my close cousin who I found on gedmatch. He's fully Slovene.

[Pribislav]

R1b (don't know which clade), probably some Balkan one and T2b5.

Probably Albanian BY611. :)

Man, if you are BY611 that is link between your Škutori and Shkoder in Albania. I mean of theory that some Herzegovinian Croatians know as Škutori are descendants of Albanian Catholic settlers to western Herzegovina from Shkoder in 17th century.

[Peterski]

Dalmatia has like few percent of R1b only and most of it is eastern Balkan branch.

So there is virtually no Italian ancestry in Dalmatia? Or only Italian maternal lineages?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Probably Albanian BY611. :)

Man, if you are BY611 that is link between your Škutori and Shkoder in Albania. I mean of theory that some Herzegovinian Croatians know as Škutori are descendants of Albanian Catholic settlers to western Herzegovina from Shkoder in 17th century.

Lmao just quit trolling dude. His marker is probably just local Illyrian, you don't need Albanians to explain it. And quit with skutori bullshit man its ridiculous

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

So there is virtually no Italian ancestry in Dalmatia? Or only Italian maternal lineages?

You have Robocop man.

[Peterski]

You have Robocop man.

But you mentioned that R1b is almost non-existent there. And it is the main haplogroup of Italians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

But you mentioned that R1b is almost non-existent there. And it is the main haplogroup of Italians.

Average Dalmatians have no Italian ancestry. They have never been numerous there to begin with

[Pribislav]

So there is virtually no Italian ancestry in Dalmatia? Or only Italian maternal lineages?

R1b is 5% in Dalmatia.
http://i.imgur.com/GZOmjrP.gif

My grandmother (father's mother) was Serb from Dalmatian Hinterland. Her family is R1b-U152, but have further origin from Herzegovina. They arrived to Dalmatia in 16th or 17th century. Haplogroup of paternal line of my grandmother came to Balkans with Romans most likely.

[Pribislav]

Lmao just quit trolling dude. His marker is probably just local Illyrian, you don't need Albanians to explain it. And quit with skutori bullshit man its ridiculous

According to hrvat22 from forum.hr all haplogroups in Croatia except I2a and R1a are from Vlachs which came from Albania in Ottoman time and from Albanians.

[Cumansky]

According to hrvat22 from forum.hr all haplogroups in Croatia except I2a and R1a are from Vlachs which came from Albania in Ottoman time and from Albanians.

Do you have any statistics I2 Dinaric South compared to I2 Dinaric North? For Croatia..

[Insuperable]

Probably Albanian BY611. :)

Man, if you are BY611 that is link between your Škutori and Shkoder in Albania. I mean of theory that some Herzegovinian Croatians know as Škutori are descendants of Albanian Catholic settlers to western Herzegovina from Shkoder in 17th century.

I wouldn't know annoying snake because I doubt someone would be that isolated by now. R1b here is not non-existent (3-5%) and I don't see why it has to be called Albanian. Though it is interesting I belong to a minority of haplogroups and plot atypically despite me having some ancestry from Montenegro (Croats, maybe they were mixed with catholic albanians, that I don't know) through my mother. Interestingly on 23andme top people on my so called 23andme cousin list happen to be Serbs and Albanians from Montenegro and R1b. I remember when I had my 23andme done 7 years ago all this made me very confused.


What is behind big plotting difference of some Serbs? Can I call you Šiptars and Bulgars?

[Pribislav]

I wouldn't know annoying snake because I doubt someone would be that isolated by now. R1b here is not non-existent (3-5%) and I don't see why it has to be called Albanian. Though it is interesting I belong to a minority of haplogroups and plot atypically despite me having some ancestry from Montenegro (Croats, maybe they were mixed with catholic albanians, that I don't know) though my mother. Interestingly on 23andme top people on my so called 23andme cousin list happen to be Serbs and Albanians from Montenegro and R1b. I remember when I had my 23andme done 7 years ago all this made me very confused.


What is behind big plotting difference of some Serbs? Can I call you Šiptars and Bulgars?

R1b-BY611 and some E-V13 people in Montenegro have Albanian paternal origin.

Piperi which are BY611 are of Albanian origin.
Some Piperi are I2a, but R1b-BY611 is more dominant in that clan.

[Ayetooey]

R1b-BY611 and some E-V13 people in Montenegro have Albanian origin.

Piperi which are BY611 are of Albanian origin.
Some Piperi are I2a, but R1b-BY611 is more dominant in that clan.

How common are I2a branches of Piperi? Someone wrote on Poreklo a few weeks ago that my surname (which you know the name of, and isn't very common) is found in Piperi and Drobnjaci tribes, since I am not I1 it cannot be Drobnjaci so my prediction is that its I2a line from Piperi.

[Insuperable]

R1b-BY611 and some E-V13 people in Montenegro have Albanian paternal origin.

Piperi which are BY611 are of Albanian origin.
Some Piperi are I2a, but R1b-BY611 is more dominant in that clan.

It goes far from Montenegro.
http://imghst.co/66/e.png

[Pribislav]

How common are I2a branches of Piperi? Someone wrote on Poreklo a few weeks ago that my surname (which you know the name of, and isn't very common) is found in Piperi and Drobnjaci tribes, since I am not I1 it cannot be Drobnjaci so my prediction is that its I2a line from Piperi.

From what I know Piperi are mix of R1b-BY611 and I2a. R1b-BY611 is more dominant.

I2a Piperi are native Serbs in Piperi clan, and BY611 are Albanian Malesor settlers which were accepted in clan by I2a.
BY611 became more dominant in Piperi due to genetic drift.

[Ayetooey]

R1b can just be from assimilation with natives during the early slavic invasions, it doesn't have to always be from a medieval Albanian clan, one would have to take a Y dna test to actually check this.

[Cumansky]

R1b can just be from assimilation with natives during the early slavic invasions, it doesn't have to always be from a medieval Albanian clan, one would have to take a Y dna test to actually check this.

Slavs are R1A-M458, R1B can be from migrant Germanic or migrant Mediterranean

[Pribislav]

R1b can just be from assimilation with natives during the early slavic invasions, it doesn't have to always be from a medieval Albanian clan, one would have to take a Y dna test to actually check this.

Ask Kelmendasi or The Devil's Advocate about R1b-BY611 in Piperi. They know much more about that than me.

Montenegrin Brda clans were in good relations with Catholic Albanians from northetn Albania (Malesors) in Ottoman time, and there was mixing between them.
Legend about Albanian (Malesor) brothers Pipo, Vaso, Hoto and Ozro as founders of Montenegrin clans Piperi, Vasojevići, Ozrinići, and Albanian clan Hoti was created in Ottoman time with goal of strengthening of the alliance between Montenegrins and Malesors against the Ottomans. Genetic debunked this legend.

According to legend Bogić founder of Moračani-Bogićevci was Albanian/Malesor. Genetic debunked this legend as well. Moračani-Bogićevci are R1b-U152, and this branch is 0% among Malesors.

[Dick]

According to hrvat22 from forum.hr all haplogroups in Croatia except I2a and R1a are from Vlachs which came from Albania in Ottoman time and from Albanians.

What about I1

[Pribislav]

What about I1

Once he said that I1 is from Vlachs (he probably think Normans/Germanics fucked Vlach women or so). :picard1:

His hysteria about Vlacho-Albanian dna mostly refers on E-V13, J2 and R1b. Guy is total idiot with little knowledge and to much wishes about genetic. According to him every person on world which carry I2-PH908 has proto-Croatian paternal line. :picard1:

[Insuperable]

...

Results posted are from a guy max_soldo from forum.hr. Stearsolina thinks he is from the hinterland, but his surname Soldo is almost exclusively from Herzegovina and he has a profile on hercegbosna.org. I think he implied in one of the posts he is from Livno, but I am not sure. Results look similar.


K-15

Population
North_Sea 19.36
Atlantic 15.67
Baltic 23.06
Eastern_Euro 16.23
West_Med 9.22
West_Asian 5.39
East_Med 8.22
Red_Sea 2.10
South_Asian 0.34
Southeast_Asian 0.13
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.28
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Oracle

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.11
2 Moldavian 4.47
3 Hungarian 6.03
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.68
5 South_Polish 6.95
6 Ukrainian 7.34
7 Austrian 8.26
8 Serbian 9.07
9 Polish 9.43
10 Russian_Smolensk 10.19
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.51
12 East_German 10.66
13 Southwest_Russian 10.82
14 Romanian 11.58
15 Belorussian 12.14
16 Estonian_Polish 12.25
17 Bulgarian 13.88
18 Kargopol_Russian 14.19
19 Estonian 14.39
20 Southwest_Finnish 14.4

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian +50% Estonian @ 2.648991


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian_Polish +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Hungarian @ 1.337558

[Dick]

Once he said that I1 is from Vlachs (he probably think Normans/Germanics fucked Vlach women or so). :picard1:

His hysteria about Vlacho-Albanian dna mostly refers on E-V13, J2 and R1b. Guy is total idiot with little knowledge and to much wishes about genetic. According to him every person on world which carry I2-PH908 has proto-Croatian paternal line. :picard1:

Didn't Robocop claim I2-PH908 is from Goths

[Pribislav]

Didn't Robocop claim I2-PH908 is from Goths

I didn't see that.

Interesting if he claim that, because he is not nordist. He promote Med power.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Results posted are from a guy max_soldo from forum.hr. Stearsolina thinks he is from the hinterland, but his surname Soldo is almost exclusively from Herzegovina and he has a profile on hercegbosna.org. I think he implied in one of the posts he is from Livno, but I am not sure.

Dude is very Slavic just like OP. I guess Herzegovina can be as much Slavic shifted as Dalmatia. In your case its probably ancestry from Montenegro shifted you south. Montenegro Croats gedmatch anywhere ?

[Pribislav]

Max_soldo is J2, I think.

[Ayetooey]

Didn't Robocop claim I2-PH908 is from Goths

He believes it comes from Samaritan tribes Serboi and Hrvat (I have had discussions with him on this).

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

We could say that Croats can range from Czech like to Montenegrin like but average it is closest to Hungary. If Insuperbale is most south shifted Croat Anđelko is the opposite.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Max_soldo is J2, I think.

Just like OP lol very similar autosomal and same haplogroup

[Insuperable]

Dude is very Slavic just like OP. I guess Herzegovina can be as much Slavic shifted as Dalmatia. In your case its probably ancestry from Montenegro shifted you south. Montenegro Croats gedmatch anywhere ?

I posted one global similary plot of girl who is partially Croat from Boka Kotorska, but it is impossible to extrapolate anything. I would also like to see their gedmatch results. I don't have any.

[Dick]

He believes it comes from Samaritan tribes Serboi and Hrvat (I have had discussions with him on this).

Ah ok maybe it was someone else.

[Pribislav]

Ah ok maybe it was someone else.

Gothic origin of I2-PH908 promote Montenegrin user cosmoo.

[Ayetooey]

Gothic origin of I2-PH908 promote Montenegrin user cosmoo.

L147.2 which is ancestral to CTS10228 was found in Motala Sweden, Östergötland (Ostergot translates simularly to Ostrogoth), this is also roughly the region where Ostrogoths originate. It's possible it was Ostrogothic of some sorts originally before being slavicised.

[Pribislav]

L147.2 which is ancestral to CTS10228 was found in Motala Sweden, Östergötland (Ostergot translates simularly to Ostrogoth), this is also roughly the region where Ostrogoths originate. It's possible it was Ostrogothic of some sorts originally before being slavicised.

Montenegrin user think that I2-PH908 came with Ostrogoths which had state in western Balkans and Italy from 493 to 553 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Kingdom
According to him I2-PH908 came Balkans 100 years before Slavs and Slavs had 0% I2-PH908 when they arrived to Balkans. He think that I2-PH908 was slavized durring the middle age in Dinaric Alps.

There is no I2-PH908 in Italy and Spain where Goths were present for longer period than in western Balkans. I2-PH908 does not existed among Germanic nations.

[Ayetooey]

Montenegrin user think that I2-PH908 came with Ostrogoths which had state in western Balkans and Italy from 493 to 553 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Kingdom
According to him I2-PH908 came Balkans 100 years before Slavs and Slavs had 0% I2-PH908 when they arrived to Balkans. He think that I2-PH908 was slavized durring the middle age in Dinaric Alps.

There is no I2-PH908 in Italy and Spain where Goths were present for longer period than in western Balkans. I2-PH908 does not existed among Germanic nations.

Which culture do you think it came from before it was slavicised by R1a? I agree it came to the Balkans with the slavic invasions, but it would of belonged to a non slavic culture at some point.

[Dick]

Which culture do you think it came from before it was slavicised by R1a? I agree it came to the Balkans with the slavic invasions, but it would of belonged to a non slavic culture at some point.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?214540-I2a-Din-in-900s-AD-Poland&p=4494331&viewfull=1#post4494331

[Pribislav]

Which culture do you think it came from before it was slavicised by R1a? I agree it came to the Balkans with the slavic invasions, but it would of belonged to a non slavic culture at some point.

I don't know exactly.
I2a1b2a1 is most diverse in triangle of Poland, Ukraine and Belarus.
Interesting is presence of I2-PH908 in western Czechia where Serbian tribe lived before Slavic migration. In western Czechia until late middle age lived Nabsky Serbs (Nabsky Srbove). They were assimilatted by Czechs in the late middle age. In part of Czechia where Nabsky Serbs lived is the highest concentration of I2-PH908 of all west Slavs.

[Pribislav]

https://pp.userapi.com/c847123/v847123694/181d29/VWwF99_fcVA.jpg

Vlachs are worst nightmare of South Slavs, especially of Croatians. :)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Since he is pre-ottoman I would guess the coast or an island, its more the inland which was cleared out of the original inhabitants and replaced with orthodox and catholic Herzegovinians. This guy plots like Islander Jana if I recall her results correctly.


What's his J2 subclade and which region of Dalmatia?

Dude is from the coast near Split. This place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka%C5%A1tela

[Jana]

This guy tested as J2b1-M205, he posted his result recently of forum.hr

https://i.imgur.com/rFBuH1n.jpg
https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J2b1.png

[Ayetooey]

This guy tested as J2b1-M205, he posted his result recently of forum.hr

https://i.imgur.com/rFBuH1n.jpg

J2b1-M205 is strange haplogroup, which peaks for some reason in Serbia (and in Republika Srpska almost perfectly, as seen on the map). Hardly exists in Albos.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPZtxAHUQAAn7Qr.jpg

[Jana]

Just like OP lol very similar autosomal and same haplogroup

Not the same. Max Soldo is J2b2 L283, which is native Illyrian marker. This guy has east med Roman haplogroup.

[Pribislav]

This guy tested as J2b1-M205, he posted his result recently of forum.hr

https://i.imgur.com/rFBuH1n.jpg
https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-J2b1.png

He originated from Serbo-Vlach tribe Kriči https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči

One Serbian member on forum. hr said to him to contact Nebojša (Nes from Anthroscape) and speak with him as Krič with Krič. :)

[Jana]

J2b1-M205 is strange haplogroup, which peaks for some reason in Serbia (and in Republika Srpska almost perfectly, as seen on the map). Hardly exists in Albos.

It is common in Montenegrin Kriči tribe of Vlach origin, but it arrived to Balkan from Levant during Roman Empire.
There was only one Albanian who had it on TA, and he had some Serb (actually slavicized Vlach) origin.

This marker is very rare outside of South Slavs in Europe from what I gather.

[Jana]

He originated from Serbo-Vlach tribe Kriči https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči

One Serbian member on forum. hr said to him to contact Nebojša (Nes from Anthroscape) and speak with him as Krič with Krič. :)

I don't know is he Krič, he maybe has different markers. As you see he is native of Adriatic coast for centuries.
This is very interesting haplogroup!

[Dick]

It is common in Montenegrin Kriči tribe of Vlach origin, but it arrived to Balkan from Levant during Roman Empire.
There was only one Albanian who had it on TA, and he had some Serb (actually slavicized Vlach) origin.

This marker is very rare outside of South Slavs in Europe from what I gather.
Dema

[Jana]

Dema

Yes. He had autosomally some Slavic admixture though, more than typical Albanian.

[Pribislav]

I don't know is he Krič, he maybe has different markers. As you see he is native of Adriatic coast for centuries.
This is very interesting haplogroup!

Kriči were slavized/serbified probably in 14th century. In 15th century Slavic names such as Jaroslav and Radovan are recorded among Kriči. In 13th century it seems they still were Latin speakers. One Kriči duke from 13th century had name Kaloka.

[Jana]

Sometimes I envy people with such cool haplogroups like this. My father is I2-din south, can it get more boring that that lol ?
And still nobody is certain about it's origin.

On the other hand I am proud because it is so typical for us SW Slavs.

[Dick]

Kriči were slavized/serbified probably in 14th century. In 15th century Slavic names such as Jaroslav and Radovan are recorded among Kriči. In 13th century it seems they still were Latin speakers. One Kriči duke from 13th century had name Kaloka.

They probbly took Slavic wives you learn to speak from your mother

[Pribislav]

They probbly took Slavic wives you learn to speak from your mother

Might be.

They lived isolated on Durmitor mountain and because of that they preserved Latin language until late middle age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durmitor

[Jana]

If I am not wrong, this is most common type of J2 among Serbs. It's different in Croats, from data I have J2a should be most common followed by J2b2 and J2b1 in equal percentage.
Overall J2 in Croatia should be around 10%.

[Pribislav]

Yes. He had autosomally some Slavic admixture though, more than typical Albanian.

Dema's ancestors were recorded in 19th century in Kosovo as "Arnautaši" (albanized Serbs). His ancestors had Serbian identity and they were Serbian speakers for centuries before albanization, this fact is painfull for Dema.

[Jana]

There was Zagorje Croat who was J2a M67 (Chechen branch :lol:) btw. He used to post under name Philip Latinowitz.

[Pribislav]

If I am not wrong, this is most common type of J2 among Serbs. It's different in Croats, from data I have J2a should be most common followed by J2b2 and J2b1 in equal percentage.
Overall J2 in Croatia should be around 10%.

Yes

[Jana]

Yes

I think J2 is little higher in Croats than in Serbs, and E-V13 is little higher in Serbs than in Croats.

[Pribislav]

I think J2 is little higher in Croats than in Serbs, and E-V13 is little higher in Serbs than in Croats.

What is most common J2 branch in Croatians?

Btw Frano Čirko is J2b1-M205.

[Jana]

What is most common J2 branch in Croatians?

Btw Frano Čirko is J2b1-M205.

Should be J2a, but J2a has many branches. Probably some local mediterranean one.
Frano Čirko is sexy :o

https://100posto.hr/datastore/imagestore/original/1543066232cirko9-201118.jpg?v=1543066232

[Dick]

What is most common J2 branch in Croatians?

Btw Frano Čirko is J2b1-M205.

That specific ydna branch is from one male from 900 years ago?

[Jana]

Out of Croats who post on TA, we had many haplos, but not a single R1a :o

Duke, Robocop, Ljubic, Ph2ter = I2a
Insuperable, Hrvoje, Viribus Unitis = R1b
Philip Latinowitz, Max Soldo = J2a

Maybe I forgot someone...

[Pribislav]

Should be J2a, but J2a has many branches. Probably some local mediterranean one.
Frano Čirko is sexy :o

https://100posto.hr/datastore/imagestore/original/1543066232cirko9-201118.jpg?v=1543066232

He can pass equally as Serb and Croatian, I would say.

I think Croatians has more J2b2 than J2b1. Among Serbs J2b1 is most common J2 branch, and J2b2 exist in very small %.

[Jana]

He can pass equally as Serb and Croatian, I would say.

I think Croatians has more J2b2 than J2b1. Among Serbs J2b1 is most common J2 branch, and J2b2 exist in very small %.

I think so, J2b2 more common among Croats. We have more J2 variety, I think. Serbs are more homogenous J2b1.

[Carpatz]

Out of Croats who post on TA, we had many haplos, but not a single R1a :o

Duke, Robocop, Ljubic, Ph2ter = I2a
Insuperable, Hrvoje, Viribus Unitis = R1b
Philip Latinowitz, Max Soldo = J2a

Maybe I forgot someone...

Are there any R1a Serbs or Bosniaks on TA? Funny how there's more Romanians (me and Aherne, as well as Zmey with Moldovans included).

[Dick]

Are there any R1a Serbs or Bosniaks on TA? Funny how there's more Romanians (me and Aherne, as well as Zmey with Moldovans included).

There was a Bosnian Serb forgot his name

[Jana]

There was a Bosnian Serb forgot his name

Stormbringer is R1a Z280

[Ayetooey]

Are there any R1a Serbs or Bosniaks on TA? Funny how there's more Romanians (me and Aherne, as well as Zmey with Moldovans included).

Dusan/Pribislav/Hungrylion/Devils advocate/me(paternal)/Nikša=I2a

Tschaikisten/Decius/Commonsense=G2a

Dick=I1.

Ford=R1b-U152

Mortimer (paternal)/MiloshN/Morlak=E-V13

[Jana]

Are there any R1a Serbs or Bosniaks on TA? Funny how there's more Romanians (me and Aherne, as well as Zmey with Moldovans included).

Only one Bosnian Serb, no R1a Bosniaks. There is even R1a Albanian and Bulgarian haha !
I noticed on anthrogenica thread literally many of Romanian 23andme results have R1a, even almost half of Wallachians are R1a, most of Tranyslvanians seem R1a too.

On 23andme I have almost no R1a relatives, almost all of them are I2a.

[Jana]

Dusan/Pribislav/Hungrylion/Devils advocate/me(paternal)/Nikša=I2a

Tschaikisten/Decius/Commonsense=G2a

Dick=I1.

Ford=R1b-U152

Mortimer (paternal)/MiloshN/Morlak=E-V13

Cosmoo from Montenegro was I2a PH908 too.

[Ayetooey]

Cosmoo from Montenegro was I2a PH908 too.

True; but I don't know if he identifies as Serb or not so didn't include him, you never know with Montenegrins. :p.

[Jana]

True; but I don't know if he identifies as Serb or not so didn't include him, you never know with Montenegrins. :p.

I think he said people of his area have Montenegrin identity mostly, but since he wrote: ''nobleserb'' in ethnicity, I think he is aware of what he is :D

[Jana]

How do we explain fact much more Wallachians and other Romanians score R1a than we dinaric SW Slavs ?
Pure coincidence or ?

I feel dinaric Slavs have very low R1a, even lower than reported.

[Ayetooey]

Dalmatian Serbs tested from the project are between 8% R1a at the moment only. Herzegovinian Serbs are higher at around 15%.

Considering the geographical distance between Romania, Ukraine and the areas where the proto slavs were born, their higher rates of R1a is unsurprising to me.

[Dick]

How do we explain fact much more Wallachians and other Romanians score R1a than we dinaric SW Slavs ?
Pure coincidence or ?

I feel dinaric Slavs have very low R1a, even lower than reported.they are closer to Eastern Europe

[Pribislav]

True; but I don't know if he identifies as Serb or not so didn't include him, you never know with Montenegrins. :p.

Cosmoo promote Montenegrin supremacy towards the others Serbs. Montenegrin super-serbism and supremacy towards the others Serbs is mother of Montenegrin anti-Serbian identity.

[Jana]

Dalmatian Serbs tested from the project are between 8% R1a at the moment only. Herzegovinian Serbs are higher at around 15%.

Considering the geographical distance between Romania, Ukraine and the areas where the proto slavs were born, their higher rates of R1a is unsurprising to me.


they are closer to Eastern Europe

I feel the reverse, that R1a represents earlier Indo-European or Slavic wawe into Balkan.
I2a must have been last and youngest wawe.

R1a in Romania is very diverse (which implies it isn't recent), why wouldn't Dacians be R1a too ?

In Balkans areas with strongest slavic autosomal input (dalmatia and bosnia) are strongly I2a, and that's telling.

[Ayetooey]

they are closer to Eastern Europe

The Romanian dna project has a very high rate of ethnic minorities, around 25% of their project, possibly higher are Jewish diaspora from America. Would be interesting to see how much higher their R1a would be without such members.

[Pribislav]

Dalmatian Serbs tested from the project are between 8% R1a at the moment only.

Abnormally high I1 stole % from R1a and I2a, due to very branched Macura and Drobnjak origin families under the various surnames.

[Ayetooey]

I feel the reverse, that R1a represents earlier Indo-European or Slavic wawe into Balkan.
I2a must have been last and youngest wawe.

R1a in Romania is very diverse (which implies it isn't recent), why wouldn't Dacians be R1a too ?

In Balkans areas with strongest slavic autosomal input (dalmatia and bosnia) are strongly I2a, and that's telling.

I don't know enough about R1a subclades in Romania to comment, but only paleo Balkan r1a sample found so far from the iron age, was the fresh off the steppe one in Bulgaria which was iranic R1a; rest seem to of been R1b so far.

[Carpatz]

The Romanian dna project has a very high rate of ethnic minorities, around 25% of their project, possibly higher are Jewish diaspora from America. Would be interesting to see how much higher their R1a would be without such members.

At least half, if you look at the project surnames. Among the most common are Cohen, Goldstein, Schwartz etc.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/romania/surnames

It's a very badly run project.

[Jana]

Dusan/Pribislav/Hungrylion/Devils advocate/me(paternal)/Nikša=I2a

Tschaikisten/Decius/Commonsense=G2a

Dick=I1.

Ford=R1b-U152

Mortimer (paternal)/MiloshN/Morlak=E-V13

You can add Vukodav as E-V13, he is Vasojević.

Compared to Croats you have no J2 but we have no E1b, you also have G and I1 which our members don't, and we have more R1b ( and none of 3 R1b Croats are Ford's clade, two are U106 and Insuperable is probably L23)

[Jana]

Dalmatian Serbs tested from the project are between 8% R1a at the moment only. Herzegovinian Serbs are higher at around 15%.

R1a in Dalmatian Croats is around 20%, higher than in Dalmatian Serbs because we have much lower I1.

[Ayetooey]

R1a in Dalmatian Croats is around 20%, higher than in Dalmatian Serbs because we have much lower I1.

True; as Pribislav said, the I1, which is from founder effects in two clans, probably affected amount of R1a.

[Jana]

I don't know enough about R1a subclades in Romania to comment, but only paleo Balkan r1a sample found so far from the iron age, was the fresh off the steppe one in Bulgaria which was iranic R1a; rest seem to of been R1b so far.

Yes, but Dacians cremated their dead and they lived in Transylvania which isn't even Balkan no more, despite they were ethnically related with Thracians and Illyrians.
There must have been lot of steppe interaction with Dacians, which can mean lot of R1a.

From eupedia:

Romanians have an even greater diversity of R1a clades than Bulgarians, despite not being speakers of a Slavic language. In fact, not all Romanian R1a is of Slavic origin. It includes Germanic clades (L664>S2894>YP285>YP282 and Z283), Iranian ones (Z93) and Jewish ones (CTS6). The Slavic clades represented include L1029 (under M458>CTS11962) and YP951 (under CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>).

SW Slavs R1a lacks such diversity on the other hand.

[Ayetooey]

You can add Vukodav as E-V13, he is Vasojević.

Compared to Croats you have no J2 but we have no E1b, you also have G and I1 which our members don't, and we have more R1b ( and none of 3 R1b Croats are Ford's clade, two are U106 and Insuperable is probably L23)

R1b-L23 is British/Irish "celtic" clade; Insuperable is likely Z2103 which is the balkan/anatolian branch.

[Jana]

R1b-L23 is British/Irish "celtic" clade; Insuperable is likely Z2103 which is the balkan/anatolian branch.

L21 is insular Celtic! L23 is Z2103 , but it is actually ancestral to western euro clades.....Yamnanya had ''Balkan'' R1b.

[Ayetooey]

Yes, but Dacians cremated their dead and they lived in Transylvania which isn't even Balkan no more, despite they were ethnically related with Thracians and Illyrians.
There must have been lot of steppe interaction with Dacians, which can mean lot of R1a.

From eupedia:

Romanians have an even greater diversity of R1a clades than Bulgarians, despite not being speakers of a Slavic language. In fact, not all Romanian R1a is of Slavic origin. It includes Germanic clades (L664>S2894>YP285>YP282 and Z283), Iranian ones (Z93) and Jewish ones (CTS6). The Slavic clades represented include L1029 (under M458>CTS11962) and YP951 (under CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>).

SW Slavs R1a lacks such diversity on the other hand.

It's a possibility, but nothing can be said for sure until samples are found; regardless of the cremation tradition I'm sure some dead exist buried somewhere, I find it difficult to believe every corpse possible ever was cremated. Perhaps Carpatz is proto Dacian by Y dna.

[Pribislav]

True; as Pribislav said, the I1, which is from founder effects in two clans, probably affected amount of R1a.

Among Podrinje and Mačva Serbs with R1a happened similar as among Dalmatian Serbs with I1. Due to founder effect R1a has much higher % than average in Podrinje and Mačva Serbs.

[Dick]

L21 is insular Celtic! L23 is Z2103 , but it is actually ancestral to western euro clades.....Yamnanya had ''Balkan'' R1b.

Funny how r1b mutated after leaving the balkans

[Jana]

My little boy is I1 :pinklove:

[Ayetooey]

L21 is insular Celtic! L23 is Z2103 , but it is actually ancestral to western euro clades.....Yamnanya had ''Balkan'' R1b.

You're right; forgot Z2103 is also called L23.

[Jana]

Among Podrinje and Mačva Serbs with R1a happened similar as among Dalmatian Serbs with I1. Due to founder effect R1a has much higher % than average in Podrinje and Mačva Serbs.

What are origins of Mačva Serbs ?

[Dick]

Among Podrinje and Mačva Serbs with R1a happened similar as among Dalmatian Serbs with I1. Due to founder effect R1a has much higher % than average in Podrinje and Mačva Serbs.

R1a likes the river valleys I2 likes the mountains xD

[Jana]

R1a likes the river valleys I2 likes the mountains xD

Except in Slovenia :D

[Pribislav]

What are origins of Mačva Serbs ?

They mostly originated from eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Mačva Serbs - sample 109 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mačva

R1a (38) - 34.9%
I2a (29) - 26.6%
E1b (14) - 12.8%
G2 (8) - 7.3%
J2 (6) - 5.5%
I1 (5) - 4.6%
N2 (4) - 3.7%
R1b (3) - 2.8%
J1 (1) - 0.9%
T (1) - 0.9%

[Jana]

Here are haplos of Croats who posted on various forums

https://i.imgur.com/ZM0g2mk.png

There are 2 R1a from Dalmatia, one from Banija (I don't know these people) and another one from member Basta, who is Dalmatian but his direct paternal line isn't, it is in fact Hungarian/German mixed from area between Hungary, Romania and Serbia.
He is YP371 branch.

[Jana]

They mostly originated from eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Mačva Serbs - sample 109 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mačva

R1a (38) - 34.9%
I2a (29) - 26.6%
E1b (14) - 12.8%
G2 (8) - 7.3%
J2 (6) - 5.5%
I1 (5) - 4.6%
N2 (4) - 3.7%
R1b (3) - 2.8%
J1 (1) - 0.9%
T (1) - 0.9%

High R1a could be Hungarian influence if their subclades differ from dinaric Serbs. That area was in Hungarian control for long time and it's a plain, Slavs living there could have received Hungarian admixture.
(which is again from magyarized slavs)
Osijek for example is big city with highest R1a in Croatia, and some of it must have been from Magyars.

[Dick]

Except in Slovenia :D

Bosnians loved Slovenian women

[Jana]

There are two R1a results from Gorski kotar (ethnic Croats) I am interested about.
Because I know these people, they have same surname and one of them is from same town.

Tomac and Crnković. I don't know cyrillic, could somebody post their subclades here ? Thanks.

[Jana]

Bosnians loved Slovenian women

Slovenia is alpine, but they have high R1a :)

[Dick]

Slovenia is alpine, but they have high R1a :)

R1a is high in Austria too

[Jana]

R1a is high in Austria too

From Caranthanians mostly :p

[Pribislav]

High R1a could be Hungarian influence if their subclades differ from dinaric Serbs. That area was in Hungarian control for long time and it's a plain, Slavs living there could have received Hungarian admixture.
(which is again from magyarized slavs)
Osijek for example is big city with highest R1a in Croatia, and some of it must have been from Magyars.

Most of people wich carry R1a in Podrinje and Mačva are R1a>R-YP3987 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3987/

They celebrate same Slava (Avramijevdan), but they have different surnames. They are probably medieval population of Podrinje/eastern Bosnia, maybe related with mining in the middle age and earlier Ottoman period.

[Dick]

From Caranthanians mostly :p

Yes From karanje obviously

[Ayetooey]

I really hope they find some very early Serb/Croat samples eventually; lack of medieval samples so far is very sad. Damn, oldest I2a1b-Din found is only from 900 AD as far as I know, which is pretty late compared to what we have for other Y dnas.

[Jana]

R1a in Osijek is 39%, very high because in Slavonia R1a is overall 19%, identical amount to Dalmatia.

[Jana]

I really hope they find some very early Serb/Croat samples eventually; lack of medieval samples so far is very sad. Damn, oldest I2a1b-Din found is only from 900 AD as far as I know, which is pretty late compared to what we have for other Y dnas.

They say Prince from Bojna is under DNA sampling. We have tested some elite medieval burial from north Dalmatia and man turned out autosomally Cypriot, not Slavic at all.
But this is all shamefully low.

My island is full with Illyrian necropolas btw, people often find them while working in fields and ofcourse nobody cares for dna sampling.

[Pribislav]

R1a in Osijek is 39%, very high because in Slavonia R1a is overall 19%, identical amount to Dalmatia.

According to same source J2 is 10.2% in Osijek, and that is highest in continental Croatia.

It seems in Osijek many things are atypical in terms of y dna.

[Insuperable]

L21 is insular Celtic! L23 is Z2103 , but it is actually ancestral to western euro clades.....Yamnanya had ''Balkan'' R1b.

Z2103 is a subclade of L23, just like L21 or you name it.
https://i.postimg.cc/HsZqNz15/Screenshot-20190706-013512-Free-Adblocker-Browser.jpg

[Jana]

Ok I found

Tomac Z280 CTS3402
Crnković R1a CTS8816 (deeper clade under CTS3402 and Y33)

found this online:

R1a-Z280 is associated with the Balto-Slavic-speaking people and its descendant subclade CTS3402 is mainly found in the Dinaric Alps spanning from Albania to Serbia, especially among the Croats. R1a-CTS3402 has high frequencies in Croatia and Southern Poland and CTS3402 may be linked to the Slavic expansion to the Balkans. Your ancestors (Z280>CTS3402) are more likely to have migrated from the Baltic region or Southern Poland to the Balkans.

This looks like proto-Croat R1a. Is this famous ''Carpatho-Dalmatian'' branch ?

[Pribislav]

....

[Pribislav]

They mostly originated from eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Mačva Serbs - sample 109 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mačva

R1a (38) - 34.9%
I2a (29) - 26.6%
E1b (14) - 12.8%
G2 (8) - 7.3%
J2 (6) - 5.5%
I1 (5) - 4.6%
N2 (4) - 3.7%
R1b (3) - 2.8%
J1 (1) - 0.9%
T (1) - 0.9%

Some Mačva Serbs originated from southern Dalmatia.

Metković in Mačva was founded by settlers from Metković in southern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metković_(Bogatić)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metković

Glušci in Mačva was founded by settlers from Glušci in southern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glušci,_Serbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glušci,_Croatia

[Jana]

Some Mačva Serbs originated from southern Dalmatia.

Metković in Mačva was founded by settlers from Metković in southern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metković_(Bogatić)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metković

Glušci in Mačva was founded by settlers from Glušci in southern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glušci,_Serbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glušci,_Croatia

Very interesting :)

[Pribislav]

Very interesting :)

Present day population of western Serbia mostly originated from various Dinaric regions from 17th to the 19th century. Herzegovinian migration current is the strongest.
In Azbukovica and Rađevina in western Serbia part of population originated from Livno and Sinj areas. They arrived in first half of 17th century and they are longer there than settlers from Herzegovina who ariived in 18th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azbukovica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rađevina
Husband of my cousin is from Rađevina. He say that his ancestors came there from Velebit 300 years ago.

Village Krajišnici near Loznica was founded by Serbs from Bosanska Krajina in the time of Miloš Obrenović https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krajišnici_(Loznica)

Village Skadar in near Osečina was founded by Serbian setllers from Skadar in modern Albania in 1720s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadar,_Osečina