Herzegovinian Serbs Y DNA

[Pribislav]

I got today from source on "Serbian DNA project" statistic of 440 tested Serbs from Herzegovina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzegovina

I2a-YP196 (199) - 45.23% (I2-PH908 32.5%)

R1a (68) - 15.45% (Z280 10.98% / M458 4.47%)

E-V13 (55) - 12.5%

I1 (29) - 6.59%

R1b (22) - 5% (western 3.18% / eastern 1.82%)

N2-P189.2 (20) - 4.55%

J2a (18) - 4.09%

G2a-L497 (10) - 2.27%

J1 (6) - 1.36%

L-M349 (6) - 1.36%

J2b-M205 (4) - 0.9%

I2-M223 (1) - 0.23%

J2b-M241 (1) 0.23%

Q (1) - 0.23%

[Pribislav]

52% I master race! :)

[Cumansky]

12.7% are non -PH908

Interesting..

There used be a lot of propaganda I read online that everyone in Yugoslavia is -PH908

[Vožd]

I was expecting more E hg.

[Pribislav]

12.7% are non -PH908

Interesting..

There used be a lot of propaganda I read online that everyone in Yugoslavia is -PH908

CTS10228 is more dominant towards the PH908 in southern and eastern Balkans.
In western Balkans there is more PH908, but still there is CTS10228.
There is a theory that CTS10228 came to Dinaric Alps in late middle age from Kosovo, Macedonia and northern Greece as refugees of Ottomans. Serbian clan Mirilović from Herzegovina is I2-CTS10228 and they have a matches in northern Greece.

[Pribislav]

I was expecting more E hg.

Herzegovina is not Montenegro.

Herzegovinian Serbs have for 15% more I2a than Montenegrins, 2X more R1a than Montenegrins, and for 15% less E-V13 than Montenegrins.
In Montenegro I2a is 30%, E-V13 is 27%, and R1a is 7,5%.

[Ayetooey]

Herzegovina is not Montenegro.

Herzegovinoan Serbs have for 15% more I2a than Montenegrins, 2X more R1a than Mobtenegrins, and for 15% less E-V13 than Monzenegrins.
In Montenegro I2a is 30%, E-V13 is 27%, and R1a is 7,5%.
How is this spread across the nation in terms of regions? I've heard most E-V13 is in the east of the country, including Podgorica, likely due to clan migrations during ottoman era.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Very nice. I am curious about 6 L-M439 samples. Any chance there was some Jančić among them ? I presume this would be my haplogroup if non-paternal event in my lineage occured most probably.
(due to already tested Jančić in Montenegro who is L haplogroup)

What are origins of this marker and how it came to Balkans ?

[Vožd]

Herzegovina is not Montenegro.

Herzegovinoan Serbs have for 15% more I2a than Montenegrins, 2X more R1a than Mobtenegrins, and for 15% less E-V13 than Montenegrins.
In Montenegro I2a is 30%, E-V13 is 27%, and R1a is 7,5%.

But this Montenegrin results is old, and probably mostly from Podgorica?

[Pribislav]

Very nice. I am curious about 6 L-M439 samples. Any chance there was some Jančić among them ? I presume this would be my haplogroup if non-peternal event in my lineage occured most probably.
(due to already tested Jančić in Montenegro who is L haplogroup)

What are origins of this marker and how it came to Balkans ?

L in Herzegovina is still of unknown origin. It's probably present there for long time.

Jančič who is L is from Herzeg Novi.
Herzeg Novi was part of Hezrgovina and it was populated from Trebinje area in 17th and 18th century. Jančić belong to this Herzegovinian L.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

L in Herzegovina is still of unknown origin. It's probably present there for long time.

Jančič who is L is from Herzeg Novi.
Herzeg Novi was part of Hezrgovina and it was populated from Trebinje area in 17th and 18th century. Jančić belong to this Herzegovinian L.

Yes, and it's very likely my ancestor was from same Jančić lineage because he came to Slovenia from exact same area. Ayetooney mentioned it might be west asian marker, but it's rare haplogroup anywhere.
If more information about it is discovered, I would be interested to know.

[Pribislav]

But this Montenegrin results is old, and probably mostly from Podgorica?

On sample 404 from Podgorica there are some minorities such as Muslims/Bosniaks, Albanians and Gypsies.

Orthodox Mohtenegrins have for few % (probably 2-4%) higher I2a, lower E-V13 and higher R1a than on this statistic up which I mentioned.

[Pribislav]

How is this spread across the nation in terms of regions? I've heard most E-V13 is in the east of the country, including Podgorica, likely due to clan migrations during ottoman era.

Large part of E-V13 probably arrived to Montenegro from south in the late middle age.

First mention of Vasojevići (E-V13) is in mid of 15th century. Vasojevići have a match in y dna in northern Greece.
Kuči (E-V13) arrived from Albania. Old Serbian population of Kuči area was R1a.

[Pribislav]

Among Herzegovinian Serbs I2a has a peak in Ljubinje municipalty about 70% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubinje

R1a has a peak in Trebinje municipality about 20% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebinje

[Ayetooey]

Do one on Dalmatian-Serbs next. :D

[Pribislav]

Do one on Dalmatian-Serbs next. :D

Still is small sample, less than 100 people. This samle for Herzegovinian Serbs is very good.

Dalmatian Serbs are roughly 42-43% I2a for now. On sample 300 or 400 maybe we will be stronger in I2a than Herzegovinians...

[Ayetooey]

Still is small sample, less than 100 people. This samle for Herzegovinian Serbs is very good.

Dalmatian Serbs are roughly 42-43% I2a for now. When sample be 300 or 400 maybe we will be stronger in I2a than Herzegovinians...

Seems to be a lot of I1, on the dna project at least when scrolling through it, matches well with the map you posted.

[Pribislav]

Seems to be a lot of I1, on the dna project at least when scrolling through it, matches well with the map you posted.

Yes, I1 is around 16% for now among Dalmatian Serbs. We are the strongest in total I (I2a+I1) of all Serbs. :)

[Vožd]

On sample 404 from Podgorica there are some minorities such as Muslims/Bosniaks, Albanians and Gypsies.

Orthodox Mohtenegrins have for few % (probably 2-4%) higher I2a, lower E-V13 and higher R1a than on this statistic up which I mentioned.

But also Podgorica is located on east, which mean that probably have more E than Montenegrin average.

[Pribislav]

But also Podgorica is located on east, which mean that probably have more E than Montenegrin average.

In Podgorica live people from whole Montenegro, not only most closer tribes as Kuči and Bjelopavlići.

Same is in Belgrade where live people from whole Serbia. In Belgrade case even from whole former Yugoslavia, because Belgrade is metropolis.

[Robocop]

52% I master race! :)

Yeah we all came from Atlantis durin Paleolithic :D

[Pribislav]

Y DNA of some famous Herzegovinian Serbs

- Bogdan Zimonjić R1b-U152 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Zimonjić

- Jovan Deretić R1a-Z280 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić

- Vojislav Šešelj I2-CTS10228 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojislav_Šešelj

- Zdravko Šotra R1a-M458 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Šotra

- Bogdan Žerajić R1a-Z280 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Žerajić

- Zdravko Čolić J1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Čolić

- Milan Gurović R1a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Gurović

- Ratko Mladić R1a-M458 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladić

- Mićo Ljubibratić I1-Z63 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mićo_Ljubibratić

[Robocop]

Y DNA of some famous Herzegovinian Serbs

- Bogdan Zimonjić R1b-U152 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Zimonjić

- Jovan Deretić R1a-Z280 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić

- Vojislav Šešelj I2-CTS10228 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojislav_Šešelj

- Zdravko Šotra R1a-M458 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Šotra

- Bogdan Žerajić R1a-Z280 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Žerajić

- Zdravko Čolić J1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zdravko_Čolić

- Milan Gurović R1a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Gurović

- Ratko Mladić R1a-M458 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladić

- Mićo Ljubibratić I1-Z63 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mićo_Ljubibratić

Deretic? Hahaha, as you know thats not something to be proud of, but I should have known he belongs to that crazy R1a as he is crazy.

[Leto]

I wanna know Zlatan Ibrahimović's Y DNA :p

[Pribislav]

Deretic? Hahaha, as you know thats not something to be proud of, but I should have known he belongs to that crazy R1a as he is crazy.

He claim origin from Illyrian tribe Deretini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria#Deretini

[Pribislav]

I wanna know Zlatan Ibrahimović's Y DNA :p

I don't know, but I would say J2.

[Ayetooey]

I wanna know Zlatan Ibrahimović's Y DNA :p

There's an Ibrahimovic on the dna project tested R1a> R-L1029, from Prizen/gora in Kosovo, likely Gorani.

[Dna8]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QSDg7C17zS4/maxresdefault.jpg

[Pribislav]

There's an Ibrahimovic on the dna project tested R1a> R-L1029, from Prizen/gora in Kosovo, likely Gorani.

Ibrahimović from Prizren is Gorani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorani_people

Zlatan Ibrahimović is Bosnian Muslim, and probably not related with Gorani Ibrahimovići.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I wanna know Zlatan Ibrahimović's Y DNA :p

H

[Leto]

I don't know, but I would say J2.
Robocop has been calling him non European for years but his sons look way more Nordic than Robocop himself. Zlatan has a lot of white blood himself, his dad even has blue eyes.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/sport-preview-zlatan-ibrahimovic.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=1200&h=800&crop=1

[Leto]

Zlatan is genetically no more Southern than Bosniensis. Probably even less so, 'cause he's half Croat.

[Ayetooey]

Zlatan gets his dark looks from his mother, who is an Arbanarsi (Albanian from Croatia). Zlatans father is probably R1a or I2a based on the city he comes from in BIH.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/f6/b7/2ef6b7c3fbc318f81b567427ac96a12d.jpg

[Leto]

Zlatan gets his dark looks from his mother, who is an Arbanarsi (Albanian from Croatia). Zlatans father is probably R1a or I2a based on the city he comes from in BIH.

I didn't know he was half Albanian. I always thought he was Bosniak/Croat. He is kind of swarthy but people like him are not that rare in the Balkans. He's not Swedish or Polish after all.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/G3HWJK/zlatan-ibrahimovic-swedish-football-player-G3HWJK.jpg
His wife is Swedish though and sons are fully assimilated in Sweden too.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

how is his mother Arbanasi ? I think this isn't true.

[Pribislav]

I didn't know he was half Albanian. I always thought he was Bosniak/Croat. He is kind of swarthy but people like him are not that rare in the Balkans. He's not Swedish or Polish after all.

Arbanasi people near Zadar are croatized Albanians.

They arrived near Zadar from Albania in 1730s.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Arbanasi people near Zadar are croatized Albanians.

They settled near Zadar from Albania in 1730s.

She isn't Albanian, her name is Jurka Gravić and she is from purely Croatian village.

[Ayetooey]

I didn't know he was half Albanian. I always thought he was Bosniak/Croat. He is kind of swarthy but people like him are not that rare in the Balkans. He's not Swedish or Polish after all.

According to what I've read his mother is "part Albanian" from Croatia, shes comes from Zadar which is Arbanasi homeland, so Zlatan is probably about a quarter. I agree he is not that rare, people exaggerate about him a lot. His father is also very White.

[Pribislav]

She isn't Albanian, her name is Jurka Gravić and she is from purely Croatian village.

Maybe she has Albanian admixture, from Zadar Arbanasi.

[Ayetooey]

She isn't Albanian, her name is Jurka Gravić and she is from purely Croatian village.

She is probably half, every source I read say she has part Albanian ancestry. She definitely looks dark for a Croat.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

She is probably half, every source I read say she has part Albanian ancestry. She definitely looks dark for a Croat.

Which source do you mean ? Never heard about that before. People from Zadar are dark in general. Dalmatia isn't exactly Poland.

[Dna8]

https://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IMG_3414.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

His father looks like a Serb though.

[Ayetooey]

Which source do you mean ? Never heard about that before. People from Zadar are dark in general. Dalmatia isn't exactly Poland.

It's on multiple different websites including Wikipedia, that his mother is part Arbanasi. I don't see why editors of these sources would get it wrong, Arbanasi aren't exactly well known, even a lot of Albanians don't know about them.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It's on multiple different websites including Wikipedia, that his mother is part Arbanasi. I don't see why editors of these sources would get it wrong, Arbanasi aren't exactly well known, even a lot of Albanians don't know about them.

I'm just curious where is it mentioned, I can't see it in wikipedia article about him.

Ibrahimović was born in Malmö, Sweden on 3 October 1981.[20] He was born to a Muslim Bosniak father, Šefik Ibrahimović, who emigrated to Sweden in 1977,[21] and a Catholic Croat mother of partial Albanian descent, Jurka Gravić, who also emigrated to Sweden where the couple first met.[22] His father was born in Bijeljina (in modern-day Bosnia and Herzegovina), and his mother in the village of Prkos in Škabrnja, in the SFR Yugoslavia (modern-day Croatia).[23]

Religious and social background
Ibrahimović was born to a Bosniak Muslim father, Šefik Ibrahimović, and a Croat Catholic mother, Jurka Gravić; his parents were immigrants to Sweden from the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and met for the first time in Sweden. Ibrahimović's parents divorced when he was a child, and although his upbringing was divided between them, he spent more time with his father: "I had time with my mother but I really lived with my father."[324][325] He has said in a 2012 interview with PSG that: "My father is Muslim, my mother is Catholic, but none of that has anything to do with football. I received a special education. I'm me and football is a religion in its own right, and everyone is welcome..."[326] In an interview with CNN on 24 November 2015, he stressed that his Muslim background was "not a factor" in fans' perception of him: "For me, it didn't change (anything) because my father is Muslim and my mother is Catholic... For me it is all about respect. That's how I grew up and the way I learned to be. This is what I am."[327] Nevertheless he later described himself as a "deeply faithful Catholic".[328]

Edit: I see it.

[Ayetooey]

His father looks like a Serb though.

AFAIK ancestors of Muslims in Bijeljina and other parts of East BIH were Muslims from Serbia who were expulsed and settled there a few 100 years ago. So his father is likely Serb genetically.

[Jackson78]

Y DNA of some famous Herzegovinian Serbs

- Milan Gurović R1a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Gurović


Na 23andme ima i Gurovića I2a, tako da ovo nije sigurno. Moraće očito sam Milan da se testira.

I kakav ti je ovo spisak bez jednog Alekse Šantića (I2-PH908), Nićifora Dučića (I2-PH908), Jovana Dučića (I2-M223), Jevta Dedijera (I2-PH908), Božidara Ekmečića (I2-PH908), Dražena Petrovića (N2-P189.2), Dejana Bodiroge (R1b), Saše Danilovića (I2-PH908), Mome Kapora (I2-Z17855), Luke Ćelovića (R1a), Luke Vukalovića (L1b) itd...

[Pribislav]

Na 23andme ima i Gurovića I2a, tako da ovo nije sigurno. Moraće očito sam Milan da se testira.

I kakav ti je ovo spisak bez jednog Alekse Šantića (I2-PH908), Nićifora Dučića (I2-PH908), Jovana Dučića (I2-M223), Jevta Dedijera (I2-PH908), Božidara Ekmečića (I2-PH908), Dražena Petrovića (N2-P189.2), Dejana Bodiroge (R1b), Saše Danilovića (I2-PH908), Mome Kapora (I2-Z17855), Luke Ćelovića (R1a), Luke Vukalovića (L1b) itd...

Dobio sam takvu informaciju za Gurovića, alu nema veze...

Za ostale nisam znao. Nisam već neko vreme u toku.

[Pribislav]

Dobio sam takvu informaciju za Gurovića, alu nema veze...

Za ostale nisam znao. Nisam već neko vreme u toku.

Ispravka - znao sam Bodirogu, ali zaboravih da ga stavim.

[Jackson78]

Dobio sam takvu informaciju za Gurovića, alu nema veze...

Za ostale nisam znao. Nisam već neko vreme u toku.

Joj Pribislave, opet ništa ne kontaš. Nisi dobio pogrešnu informaciju, ima Gurovića testiranih medju Hercegovcima kao R1a, ali ih na 23andme ima testiranih i kao I2a.

Eto, sad i za njih znaš.

I ovom prilikom ti se izvinjavam za uvrede ranije upućene sa moje strane prema tebi. Kakav god da si, nisi zaslužio tako nešto.

[Pribislav]

Joj Pribislave, opet ništa ne kontaš. Nisi dobio pogrešnu informaciju, ima Gurovića testiranih medju Hercegovcima kao R1a, ali ih na 23andme ima testiranih i kao I2a.

Eto, sad i za njih znaš.

I ovom prilikom ti se izvinjavam za uvrede ranije upućene sa moje strane prema tebi. Kakav god da si, nisi zaslužio tako nešto.

Znaš zašto sam mislio da Milan Gurović R1a. Zato što mi je Aksa rekao da je to proverena stvar.

Ma u redu je, šta je bilo, bilo je... Bilo pa prošlo.

[Jackson78]

Znaš zašto sam mislio da Milan Gurović R1a. Zato što mi je Aksa rekao da je to proverena stvar.

Ma u redu je, šta je bilo, bilo je... Bilo pa prošlo.

Bilo je još slučajeva kod Hercegovaca takvih, isto prezime, mesto i slava, a dve različite haplogrupe.

:thumb001:

[Jackson78]

I wanna know Zlatan Ibrahimović's Y DNA :p

There is some tested Ibrahimovic from Bosnia on 23andme (his haplogroup is I2-Z17855). But it is not sure if he is related to Zlatan or not.

[Cumansky]

There is some tested Ibrahimovic from Bosnia on 23andme (his haplogroup is I2-Z17855). But it is not sure if he is related to Zlatan or not.

Yes!!