Friuli Italian Gedmatch result

[Haider]

From Udine, Friuli. The high distances are due to lack of Northeast Italian reference on gedmatch, but he is pretty typical for the region from what I've seen. And no, Northeast Italians are not part Slavic, they often score Serbian first due to similar composition ratio but on their oracles you can clearly see they are not. I also assume he should be close to the Romansh people of Switzerland.

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.89
2 North_Sea 19.81
3 East_Med 13.13
4 West_Med 11.89
5 Eastern_Euro 8.95
6 West_Asian 8.74
7 Baltic 7.39
8 Red_Sea 3.61
9 Oceanian 0.92
10 South_Asian 0.39
11 Northeast_African 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 10.13
2 French 10.58
3 North_Italian 10.6
4 Spanish_Cataluna 11.65
5 Romanian 11.72
6 Portuguese 11.93
7 Spanish_Extremadura 12
8 Spanish_Murcia 12.17
9 Austrian 12.29
10 Spanish_Galicia 12.42
11 South_Dutch 12.47
12 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.49
13 Tuscan 12.72
14 Bulgarian 13.27
15 Spanish_Valencia 13.62
16 Spanish_Andalucia 14.11
17 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 14.32
18 West_German 14.52
19 Hungarian 15.27
20 East_German 15.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% North_German + 49.3% West_Sicilian @ 3.8
2 68.4% South_Dutch + 31.6% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.89
3 58.8% South_Dutch + 41.2% West_Sicilian @ 3.94
4 57.2% South_Dutch + 42.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.97
5 52.9% West_Sicilian + 47.1% Danish @ 4.25
6 71.7% South_Dutch + 28.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 4.3
7 54% West_Sicilian + 46% West_Scottish @ 4.33
8 53.3% West_Sicilian + 46.7% Irish @ 4.34
9 74.2% South_Dutch + 25.8% Cyprian @ 4.34
10 50.9% West_Sicilian + 49.1% Southeast_English @ 4.48
11 51.1% Italian_Abruzzo + 48.9% North_German @ 4.51
12 52.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 47.4% Southeast_English @ 4.52
13 55.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 44.2% West_Scottish @ 4.55
14 55% Italian_Abruzzo + 45% Irish @ 4.56
15 69.6% South_Dutch + 30.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.61
16 75.2% South_Dutch + 24.8% Lebanese_Muslim @ 4.62
17 57.9% Tuscan + 42.1% North_German @ 4.64
18 54.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 45.4% Danish @ 4.66
19 68.3% South_Dutch + 31.7% Italian_Jewish @ 4.7
20 62.7% South_Dutch + 37.3% East_Sicilian @ 4.7

[Haider]

Puntdnal k13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 36.56
2 NE_Europe 34.27
3 West_Asia 16
4 SW_Asia 7.94
5 Oceania 1.44
6 South_Asia 1.17
7 Siberia 1.05
8 East_Africa 0.8
9 SE_Asia 0.41
10 West_Africa 0.26
11 NE_Asia 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Macedonian 3.48
2 Bulgarian 4.15
3 Montenegrin 4.76
4 Serbian 5.13
5 Romanian 5.42
6 Kosovar 7.92
7 Albanian 8.63
8 Italian_Tuscan 8.66
9 Italian_Bergamo 8.67
10 Bosnian 8.81
11 Greek_Thessaly 9.49
12 Croatian 10.01
13 Moldavian 10.91
14 French 10.94
15 Spaniard 11.95
16 German_South 12.49
17 Hungarian 12.59
18 Belgian 13.26
19 Slovene 13.32
20 English 14.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.7% French + 27.3% Turkish @ 2.3
2 74.6% French + 25.4% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.31
3 72.3% French + 27.7% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.45
4 67.1% Albanian + 32.9% Utahn_European @ 2.5
5 77.3% Italian_Tuscan + 22.7% Mordovian @ 2.57
6 76.9% French + 23.1% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 2.58
7 64% Albanian + 36% English @ 2.61
8 58.2% English + 41.8% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.62
9 55.2% Irish + 44.8% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.63
10 72.5% Albanian + 27.5% Norwegian @ 2.64
11 74.2% Albanian + 25.8% Swedish @ 2.66
12 55.8% Orcadian + 44.2% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.67
13 56.2% Italian_Tuscan + 43.8% Moldavian @ 2.69
14 51.5% Italian_Sicilian + 48.5% Norwegian @ 2.69
15 56.7% Scottish + 43.3% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.7
16 78.5% Italian_Tuscan + 21.5% Russian @ 2.7
17 66.9% Albanian + 33.1% Irish @ 2.7
18 54.9% Utahn_European + 45.1% Italian_Sicilian @ 2.71
19 57% English + 43% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 2.72
20 66.3% Albanian + 33.7% Orcadian @ 2.73

[JMack]

His results are more or less similar to mine. I have distant Friulan ancestry, but I'm also part South Italian. I think what shifted me north was the Tyrolean + Venetian + Portuguese combined (mainly the first since it's more or less recent). I was expecting to plot with Tuscans but I plot between North Italians, French, Romanians and Serbians in most calculators.

Can you plot him in a PCA?

[Haider]

His results are more or less similar to mine. I have distant Friulan ancestry, but I'm also part South Italian. I think what shifted me north was the Tyrolean + Venetian + Portuguese combined (mainly the first since it's more or less recent). I was expecting to plot with Tuscans but I plot between North Italians, French, Romanians and Serbians in most calculators.

Can you plot him in a PCA?

I'm on my mobile and don't have acess to a PC right now. Maybe you or someone else can do it?

[Token]

Of course this individual is part Slavic. You can't show Balto-Slavic drift without having actual Balto-Slavic admixture. Udine borders Slovenia, and in such bordering areas the rule is extensive bidirectional geneflow.

[Haider]

Of course this individual is part Slavic. You can't show Balto-Slavic drift without having actual Balto-Slavic admixture. Udine borders Slovenia, and in such bordering areas the rule is extensive bidirectional geneflow.

I don't see a Balto-Slavic shift, he's actually very Western shifted and closest to Venetians, Romansh and Occitans.

[Haider]

MDLP K16

Population Percent
1 Neolithic 28.53
2 Caucasian 26.18
3 NorthEastEuropean 18.86
4 Steppe 18.06
5 NearEast 3.58
6 NorthAfrican 2.78
7 Australian 1.18
8 Arctic 0.58
9 Oceanic 0.2
10 Siberian 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Provencal (Provence) 4.49
2 Swiss (Switzerland) 4.57
3 Romanian (Gorj) 4.58
4 Italian (Friul) 4.71
5 Romanian (Apuseni) 4.81
6 Montenegrian (Montenegro) 4.88
7 Macedonian (Macedonia) 5.55
8 Serbian (Serbia) 5.6
9 Moldavian (Molodva) 5.7
10 Bulgarian (Bulgaria) 6.61
11 French (EastFrance) 6.67
12 Italian (NorthIitaly) 6.91
13 French (NorthwestFrance) 6.98
14 Corsican (Corsica) 7.39
15 Bosnian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 7.44
16 Croat (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 7.46
17 Austrian (Austria) 7.54
18 Serbian (Bosnia-Herzegovina) 7.54
19 Romanian (Romania) 7.61
20 Italian (Bergamo) 7.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.6% Italian (Abruzzo) + 48.4% English (Kent) @ 1.68
2 65.4% French (EastFrance) + 34.6% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 1.68
3 72% French (EastFrance) + 28% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 1.84
4 54% English (Kent) + 46% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 1.9
5 53.4% English (Kent) + 46.6% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 1.91
6 55.9% English (Kent) + 44.1% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 1.92
7 52.6% Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) + 47.4% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 1.97
8 51.8% Italian (Abruzzo) + 48.2% English (Cornwall) @ 2
9 60% German (Germany) + 40% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 2.03
10 67.1% German (Germany) + 32.9% Jew (Ashkenazi) @ 2.07
11 70.6% French (EastFrance) + 29.4% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 2.07
12 57.6% Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) + 42.4% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.08
13 55.1% Irish (Connacht) + 44.9% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.09
14 53.2% English (Cornwall) + 46.8% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 2.1
15 50.1% Irish (Connacht) + 49.9% Italian (Abruzzo) @ 2.11
16 55.6% Greek (Greece) + 44.4% English (Kent) @ 2.11
17 76.9% French (France) + 23.1% Druze (Mount_Carmel) @ 2.11
18 82.6% French (EastFrance) + 17.4% Cypriot (Cyprus) @ 2.13
19 78% French (EastFrance) + 22% Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) @ 2.15
20 50.4% Italian (Abruzzo) + 49.6% Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) @ 2.15

[Dick]

His results are more or less similar to mine. I have distant Friulan ancestry, but I'm also part South Italian. I think what shifted me north was the Tyrolean + Venetian + Portuguese combined (mainly the first since it's more or less recent). I was expecting to plot with Tuscans but I plot between North Italians, French, Romanians and Serbians in most calculators.

Can you plot him in a PCA?

https://i.imgur.com/ak16N69.png

[JMack]

https://i.imgur.com/ak16N69.png

Thanks man. :thumb001:

He seems to be much more shifted towards Serbians than me (I'm more west shifted). I wonder what's his yDNA.

[Pribislav]

Why many Italians from Veneto/Friuli got Serbian on the first, second or third place?

[Mingle]

He's not as distant to Slovenes as I would have expected.

[Pribislav]

He's not as distant to Slovenes as I would have expected.

Italians from Friuli and Veneto are only Italians with Slavic influence.

- Some Slavs in the early middle age settled in those regions
- Some South Slavs arrived there in the time of Venetian Republic and Austria (for example one my cousin lived in Trieste in 18th century, he was merchant)
- Some Slovenians in Trieste and around are italianized in the last 100 years

[Mingle]

Italians from Friuli and Veneto are only Italians with Slavic influence.

- Some Slavs in the early middle age settled in those regions
- Some South Slavs arrived there in the time of Venetian Republic and Austria (for example one my cousin lived in Trieste in 18th century, he was merchant)
- Some Slovenians in Trieste and around are italianized in the last 100 years

I'm aware they have Slavic influence but I didn't think it was enough to bring them so close to Slovenes. They're a bit closer to Slovenes than even Bulgars are. Here's a GEDmatch of someone from Bulgaria. This is a puntDNAL K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 35.52
2 NE_Europe 32.56
3 West_Asia 18.99
4 SW_Asia 8.01
5 NE_Asia 1.52
6 Siberia 1.19
7 South_Africa 1.05
8 Americas 0.83
9 Oceania 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 3.33
2 Macedonian 3.48
3 Montenegrin 4.83
4 Romanian 5.27
5 Kosovar 5.93
6 Serbian 6.72
7 Albanian 6.79
8 Greek_Thessaly 7.46
9 Italian_Tuscan 7.91
10 Italian_Bergamo 9.92
11 Bosnian 10.38
12 Croatian 12.14
13 Greek_Central 12.45
14 Moldavian 12.54
15 Italian_Abruzzo 13.44
16 French 13.91
17 Spaniard 14.47
18 Hungarian 14.73
19 German_South 15.03
20 Slovene 15.42

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.3% Macedonian + 5.7% Afghan_Hazara @ 2.11
2 70.2% French + 29.8% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 2.17
3 91.1% Macedonian + 8.9% Nogay @ 2.21
4 95.7% Macedonian + 4.3% Altaian @ 2.23
5 96.1% Macedonian + 3.9% Mongolian @ 2.25
6 96.7% Macedonian + 3.3% Oroqen @ 2.3
7 96.7% Macedonian + 3.3% Daur @ 2.3
8 96.4% Macedonian + 3.6% Tuvinian @ 2.32
9 67.5% French + 32.5% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.34
10 96.9% Macedonian + 3.1% Xibo @ 2.37
11 64.4% French + 35.6% Turkish_Aydin @ 2.39
12 65% French + 35% Turkish @ 2.4
13 93.6% Macedonian + 6.4% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 2.44
14 97.2% Bulgarian + 2.8% Oroqen @ 2.5
15 97.3% Macedonian + 2.7% Japanese @ 2.51
16 97.2% Macedonian + 2.8% Korean @ 2.51
17 96.8% Bulgarian + 3.2% Mongolian @ 2.52
18 97.2% Bulgarian + 2.8% Daur @ 2.52
19 64.2% Belgian + 35.8% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.53
20 97.2% Macedonian + 2.8% Han_North_China @ 2.53

I guess the main components that would pull Venetians and Friulians towards South Slavs would be their shared Germanic and Celtic ancestry (in addition to Southern European). I don't think the Slavic DNA is in very high quantities among Friulians and Venetians really even if it does exist there.

[Token]

Northeastern Italians shows a notable tilt towards Eastern Europe in the recent paper on Italy. This Balto-Slavic drift is most certainly caused by actual Slavic admixture, not 'shared ancient components' as op suggests.

https://i.ibb.co/m91RhwH/pca.png

[Licantropo]

Italians from Friuli and Veneto are only Italians with Slavic influence.

- Some Slavs in the early middle age settled in those regions
- Some South Slavs arrived there in the time of Venetian Republic and Austria (for example one my cousin lived in Trieste in 18th century, he was merchant)
- Some Slovenians in Trieste and around are italianized in the last 100 years

There have been more Venetians crossing the border then the other way around during centuries for obvious reasons and in the borders it isn't unidirectional in any case btw, deal with that.

[Pribislav]

There have been more Venetians crossing the border then the other way around during centuries for obvious reasons and in the borders it isn't unidirectional in any case btw, deal with that.

Slovenians were quite numerous in Trieste.

Even Serbian comunity existed in Trieste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_in_Italy#Triestine_Serbs

[Kouros]

Of course this individual is part Slavic. You can't show Balto-Slavic drift without having actual Balto-Slavic admixture.

What do you mean by that? Their are ancient Europeans that show 'Balto-Slavic drift' towards modern Slavic nations in GEDmatch calculators but they still predate the arrival of Slavs to Europe... So isn't it wrong to say that they are 'part Slavic'?

[Licantropo]

Slovenians were quite numerous in Trieste.

Even Serbian comunity existed in Trieste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs_in_Italy#Triestine_Serbs
Come on man, you perfectly now that there have been Italian and Venetian communities for centuries on the other side of the border too, so claiming that Venetians and Friulians are only Italians with Slavic influence makes no sense.

[Token]

What do you mean by that? Their are ancient Europeans that show 'Balto-Slavic drift' towards modern Slavic nations in GEDmatch calculators but they still predate the arrival of Slavs to Europe... So isn't it wrong to say that they are 'part Slavic'?
Of course i'm talking in a modern context, there was no distinctive Balto-Slavic drift before the Bronze Age. Comparing Upper Paleolithic samples with modern populations is just dumb, samples like the Norwegian Hunter-Gatherer posted by Peterski will be comparatively closer to Balto-Slavs due to lower Basal Eurasian combined with a comparatively higher WHG level (HG admixture actually peaks in Eastern Europe), and not necessarily because they are ancestral or even related to Balto-Slavic pops.

[Pribislav]

Come on man, you perfectly now that there have been Italian and Venetian communities for centuries on the other side of the border too, so claiming that Venetians and Friulians are only Italians with Slavic influence makes no sense.

Which other Italians have Slavic inflience? Lombardians, Emilians, Abruzzians, Napolitans, Sicilians?
Except Veneto and Friuli in other parts of Italy Slavic influence is 0 or close to 0.

Italians in Istria and Dalmatia were not all settlers from Italy. Some of them came from Italy in the time if Venetian Republic, but some were italianized South Slavs, Vlachs (Istro-Romanians) and Latin Dalmatians and Istriots (aka romanized Illyrians).

[Kouros]

Of course i'm talking in a modern context, there was no distinctive Balto-Slavic drift before the Bronze Age. Comparing Upper Paleolithic samples with modern populations is just dumb, samples like the Norwegian Hunter-Gatherer posted by Peterski will be comparatively closer to Balto-Slavs due to lower Basal Eurasian combined with a comparatively higher WHG level (HG admixture actually peaks in Eastern Europe), and not necessarily because they are ancestral or even related to Balto-Slavic pops.

So then this guy can still show 'Balto-Slavic drift' without having actual Slavic invader ancestry? Maybe I'm just confused by your definition of Slavic/Balto-Slavic?

[JMack]

So then this guy can still show 'Balto-Slavic drift' without having actual Slavic invader ancestry? Maybe I'm just confused by your definition of Slavic/Balto-Slavic?

There's no ''Slavic'' in Friuli/Veneto and any other part of Italy if by Slavic you mean people related to modern Slavs after Balto-Slavic ethnogenesis. The admixture which shifts these populations to the North is something that predates the formation of any ''BaltoSlavic'' ethnic group. If some people with Northeastern Italian DNA get Serbs or any other Slavs on some calculators it's by coincidence and not because they have actual Slavic ancestry in recent times like Greeks or Albanians.

It's a kind of admixture related to Indo-European tribes, not actual Slavic groups. I'd say it's the same admixture that shifts Austrians slightly to the east of their Bavarian ancestors. But in the case of Italians it's present in a reduced quantity when compared to Austrians (the same is obviously valid for Germanic admix).

[Tauromachos]

There's no ''Slavic'' in Friuli/Veneto and any other part of Italy if by Slavic you mean people related to modern Slavs after Balto-Slavic ethnogenesis. The admixture which shifts these populations to the North is something that predates the formation of any ''BaltoSlavic'' ethnic group. If some people with Northeastern Italian DNA get Serbs or any other Slavs on some calculators it's by coincidence and not because they have actual Slavic ancestry in recent times like Greeks or Albanians.

It's a kind of admixture related to Indo-European tribes, not actual Slavic groups. I'd say it's the same admixture that shifts Austrians slightly to the east of their Bavarian ancestors. But in the case of Italians it's present in a reduced quantity when compared to Austrians (the same is obviously valid for Germanic admix).

Yes but also in Greeks at least a part if not even the majority of this type of ancestry is for the same
or very similar reason as mentioned here for Italians and not from actual Slavs of the Middle Ages.

[Token]

So then this guy can still show 'Balto-Slavic drift' without having actual Slavic invader ancestry? Maybe I'm just confused by your definition of Slavic/Balto-Slavic?

No, you are confused by my definition of 'drift'.

[Peterski]

Northeastern Italians shows a notable tilt towards Eastern Europe in the recent paper on Italy. This Balto-Slavic drift is most certainly caused by actual Slavic admixture, not 'shared ancient components' as op suggests.

https://i.ibb.co/m91RhwH/pca.png

Piero Favero could pass as Slavic:

http://venetianambassadors.org/projects/your-venetic-origins/

http://venetianambassadors.org/uploads/images/project-images/venetic-origins-dr-piero-favero.jpg

[Licantropo]

Which other Italians have Slavic inflience? Lombardians, Emilians, Abruzzians, Napolitans, Sicilians?
Except Veneto and Friuli in other parts of Italy Slavic influence is 0 or close to 0.

Italians in Istria and Dalmatia were not all settlers from Italy. Some of them came from Italy in the time if Venetian Republic, but some were italianized South Slavs, Vlachs (Istro-Romanians) and Latin Dalmatians and Istriots (aka romanized Illyrians).

Oh okay then, i understood a different thing. I thought you were saying they were just Italianized slavs, while even going by genetic there is just some admixture like it happens in all the borders.
Btw Mussolini moved many Italians from all the regions there and of course with Venice you had dealers from all the peninsula. Geonese dealers, florentine bankers etc.