Baltics Blond tier list

[Supercomputer]

I made a chart of Baltics (Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian) and also Belarusian blondness based on a Soviet study. Hair Color is categorized by Fisher Scale, Eye color by Bunak scale.


AVG higher = darker
Pure Blue & Light Gray = 9-12 Bunak Scale
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel = 5-8 Bunak Scale
Pure Brown = 1-4 Bunak Sale

1.) Estonians (n=1140 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 5,2%
Light Blond 5,5%
Blond 30,4%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 41,6%
Dark 17,2%
AVG Hair color: 2,526

Pure Blue & Light Gray 58%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 39,7%
Pure Brown 2,65%
AVG Eye color: 0,443

2.) Latvians (n=1133 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 1,3%
Light Blond 6,6%
Blond 16,8%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 45,9%
Dark 29,3%
AVG Hair color: 2,854

Pure Blue & Light Gray 58,7%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 38,4%
Pure Brown 3,3%
AVG Eye color: 0,441


3.) Lithuanians (n=1180 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 0,6%
Light Blond 7,1%
Blond 18%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 42,5%
Dark 31,1%
AVG Hair color: 2,851


Pure Blue & Light Gray 54,8%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 42,4%
Pure Brown 3,2%
AVG Eye color: 0,481

4.) Belarusians (n=186 over 2 locations)

Very Light Blond /
Light Blond 5,2%
Blond 24,65%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 53,8%
Dark 16,3%
AVG Hair color: 2,68

Pure Blue & Light Gray 63,4%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 32,2%
Pure Brown 4,4%
AVG Eye color: 0,41

It confirms what I've already believed - Estonians are the lightest, while Lithuanians darkest. Int seems that in hair color, Estonians stand out, while Latvians and Lithuanians are the same. In eye color it's the Lithuanians who stand out as darker, while Latvians and Estonians are about equal.

Source:
https://i.postimg.cc/JsZH4Gsh/Detail-pigmentation-of-Baltics-Belarus-and-part-of-Russia.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JsZH4Gsh)

[Roy]

How and when was this study carried out?

[Supercomputer]

How and when was this study carried out?

In the 1950s on live subjects

[Septentrion]

Estonians are what I call quite blond, comparable to the people of Finland, Sweden, Norway, etc...
Juhan found that 71.8% had blond/blondish hair and approximately 88% had light eyes (24% blue and 64% bluish-gray). In central parts, more than 80% were to be blond/blondish-haired. Nevertheless this doesn't include the well integrated Russian minorities which came during the Soviet era, who are generally much darker.
Latvians are lighter-haired than Lithuanians, but not lighter-eyed.

[Supercomputer]

Latvians are lighter-haired than Lithuanians, but not lighter-eyed.

This contradicts the numbers of this study. I suppose you don't have the source as usual?

[Septentrion]

This contradicts the numbers of this study. I suppose you don't have the source as usual?

Not really a contradiction, Lithuanians are overall the darkest, but in eye color they are pretty similar, in terms low numbers for brown eyes.

[Supercomputer]

Not really a contradiction, Lithuanians are overall the darkest, but in eye color they are pretty similar, in terms low numbers for brown eyes.

It is a contradiction. Look at averages in the study above. Higher number = darker

[Chelubey]

I saw the results of research of Soviet anthropologists. The lightest groups are Finnic groups. Scandinavians and Balts are inferior to the Finns, but quite a bit

[Supercomputer]

https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/statystyki-krajow-regionow-populacji/europa/ludy-ugrofinskie-antropologia-fizyczna

[Nurzat]

I've met four Latvians in my life, three girls and one boy, all Latvian, not Russian ethnic: three were brown haired (medium and dark), one was blond (pretty light shade), two had grey eyes (lighter than blue), two had brown eyes (not hazel). other than this, they all looked like a Slavic-Germanic mix, tendency towards Germanic, though probably this is what Baltic look is, neither Germanic nor Slavic.

neither was looking as to obviously stick out in northeast Romania (Moldova region), unlike Brits, who many times are very obvious, even when not blond, because of facial traits and head shape.

is there a difference between countryside and towns/cities there as well? countryside seems to have a higher percentage of lighter types across Eastern Europe than the urban area.

[Not a Cop]

https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/statystyki-krajow-regionow-populacji/europa/ludy-ugrofinskie-antropologia-fizyczna

Not shure, from which study the numbers are taken, but i have standalone book on estonians.

[Supercomputer]

Not shure, from which study the numbers are taken, but i have standalone book on estonians.

Could you post all part about pigmentation here or PM me?

[Not a Cop]

Could you post all part about pigmentation here or PM me?

Shure, do you understand russian or should i translate?

[Supercomputer]

Shure, do you understand russian or should i translate?

Don't understand. If you could translate it would be excellent.

[Lucas]

Not shure, from which study the numbers are taken, but i have standalone book on estonians.

For pigmentation, except Livs and Latvians from . Heapost L., Mark. K., Soome-ugri rahvaste fuusine antropoloogia, 2014.
Data collected between '50 and '70.

[Not a Cop]

Juhan Aul, Антропология Эстонцев (Anthropologie estonica), Tartu, 1964.


Sample size 15 110 estonian soliders, 1932-1936 mostly within 21-23 years, which made up 18.72% of Estonian males in 20-30 age groups or 3.30% of all males.

Eye Colour.

Groups:

1. Blue or slightly grayish blue eyes. 51.6%
2. Gray and gray with other light nuances (mostly green) 26.8%
3. Light mixed, М7—М8 and M13—М22 in Saller (Zaller?) scale. 10.9%
4. Dark mixed, M1— М6 - and М9—M12 4.1%
5. Brown, both light and dark 6.6%

Hair Colour

1. Light Blonde A-E 2.5%
2. Medium and dark blonde F-O 46.9%
3. Light Brown P-T 22.6%
4. Medium Brown U-W 19.1%
5. Dark Brown and Black X-Y 7.9%.
6. Red I-VI 1%.


Light Eyes map

https://i.imgur.com/uNtan3e.png

Light Hair map

https://i.imgur.com/CfnUCAd.png

Correlation between Dark Hair and Eyes

https://i.imgur.com/1VL8wQJ.png

Hair colour with examples:

https://i.imgur.com/CYwkYU1.jpg

[Token]

Funny how Uralics, not Indo-Europeans, are the blondest people of the world.

[Joso]

Funny how Uralics, not Indo-Europeans, are the blondest people of the world.

Why that happens?

[Token]

Why that happens?

More ANE-related admixture.

[Not a Cop]

Why that happens?

Blondes like N dick much.

[Supercomputer]

Sample size 15 110 estonian soliders, 1932-1936 mostly within 21-23 years, which made up 18.72% of Estonian males in 20-30 age groups or 3.30% of all males.

Eye Colour.

Groups:

1. Blue or slightly grayish blue eyes. 51.6%
2. Gray and gray with other light nuances (mostly green) 26.8%
3. Light mixed, М7—М8 and M13—М22 in Saller (Zaller?) scale. 10.9%
4. Dark mixed, M1— М6 - and М9—M12 4.1%
5. Brown, both light and dark 6.6%

Hair Colour

1. Light Blonde A-E 2.5%
2. Medium and dark blonde F-O 46.9%
3. Light Brown P-T 22.6%
4. Medium Brown U-W 19.1%
5. Dark Brown and Black X-Y 7.9%.
6. Red I-VI 1%.


Light Eyes map

https://i.imgur.com/uNtan3e.png

Light Hair map

https://i.imgur.com/CfnUCAd.png

Correlation between Dark Hair and Eyes

https://i.imgur.com/1VL8wQJ.png

Hair colour with examples:

https://i.imgur.com/CYwkYU1.jpg

Excellent do you have anything similar for Latvia, Lithuania or Belarus?

[Lucas]

Bear in mind that for recruits (age 21-23) hair color could be darker in later years. It can't be repsresentative for whole adult population.
Better are surveys which test people between age 18-50.

[Supercomputer]

Bear in mind that for recruits (age 21-23) hair color could be darker in later years. It can't be repsresentative for whole adult population.
Better are surveys which test people between age 18-50.

They aren't necessarily better because in a study which uses a wide age range (like 18-50) you don't know exactly how frequent each age is represented and thus two of these studies can have twisted results because one study used more people that are closer to 18 that the other. The hair color that people reach in their early adulthood is what they are genetically programmed to have before hair darkens and later ultimately loses it's pigment. Plus many older people are bald and so on. So I take the early adulthood studies to be most natural. Interesting fact; Poles at 17-67 are about equally blond as Slovenians at age around 20 - at roughly 30%. Someone who doesn't pay attention to age might conclude they are equal, (that's what happened to me initially) that's why one should always keep age in mind when looking at hair color studies.

[Lucas]

They aren't necessarily better because in a study which uses a wide age range (like 18-50) you don't know exactly how frequent each age is represented and thus two of these studies can have twisted results because one study used more people that are closer to 18 that the other. The hair color that people reach in their early adulthood is what they are genetically programmed to have before hair darkens and later ultimately loses it's pigment. Plus many older people are bald and so on. So I take the early adulthood studies to be most natural. Interesting fact; Poles at 17-67 are about equally blond as Slovenians at age around 20 - at roughly 30%. Someone who doesn't pay attention to age might conclude they are equal, (that's what happened to me initially) that's why one should always keep age in mind when looking at hair color studies.

Yes, so to use them in wide European study someone has to choose if he uses only young people or those in young and medium age together. Hair color map for Europeans in "recruit" age would be different than for all adults. Mixing such data (recruit Estonian and Slovenians, Poles 17-67 and so on) would be non-scientific. I know you want to create such map, but be careful

BTW Karin Mark surveyed Estonians in age 18-50. The same for Cheboksarov's Baltic data which you posted in OP.

[Lucas]

Excellent do you have anything similar for Latvia, Lithuania or Belarus?

Why you ask? What is posted in OP was last extensive survey for Latvians and Lithuanians. And those data are legit.


And you forgot Curonians (last line on this scan)

https://i.postimg.cc/k77TnNpY/Detail-pigmentation-of-Baltics-Belarus-and-part-of-Russia.jpg

[Not a Cop]

Why you ask? What is posted in OP was last extensive survey for Latvians and Lithuanians. And those data are legit.


And you forgot Curonians (last line on this scan)

https://i.postimg.cc/k77TnNpY/Detail-pigmentation-of-Baltics-Belarus-and-part-of-Russia.jpg

Are you shure that data from 50-es is the latest? I'll try to find something in runet.

[Not a Cop]

Excellent do you have anything similar for Latvia, Lithuania or Belarus?

Some additional data from the book:

Russians from eastern parts of Estonia:

86.2% Light Eyed

37.6% Light and Dark blonde

25.3% Light Brown

26.5% Brown

10.6% Dark Brown and Black.

Northern Latvians

84.3% Light eyes

5.5% Dark-mixed

10.2% Brown.

60.9% Light Haired (i guess Blonde to Light Brown)

24.4% Brown

14.7% Dark Brown to Black

[Lucas]

Are you shure that data from 50-es is the latest? I'll try to find something in runet.

Yes, for whole Lithuania and Latvia it was latest (Cheboksarov & Vitov & Mark). It was published in two papers (one 1954 and second 1959 if remember correctly).

Few years later Denisova published her data but I think only for some regions and it was also collected in '50 ( I don't have those papers). But if you could find her data for living would be great. I can only find those for Baltic craniology.
For Belarus Polesye you can find some data from '70? (Tegako).

[Septentrion]

Bear in mind that for recruits (age 21-23) hair color could be darker in later years. It can't be repsresentative for whole adult population.
Better are surveys which test people between age 18-50.

Nope! It is actually more representative to measure people in their 20's. After that many males usually go bald or gray, so the best time for a "perfect" representation is mostly the 20's. 18-50? That is way too wide, most of those of 40-50 years are bald or gray. Their "true" or natural hair colour has already underwent change.

[Septentrion]

Yes, for whole Lithuania and Latvia it was latest (Cheboksarov & Vitov & Mark). It was published in two papers (one 1954 and second 1959 if remember correctly).

Few years later Denisova published her data but I think only for some regions and it was also collected in '50 ( I don't have those papers). But if you could find her data for living would be great. I can only find those for Baltic craniology.
For Belarus Polesye you can find some data from '70? (Tegako).

Belarus is not a Baltic nation, why is it included here? It is a "purely" East Slavic country!

[Septentrion]

Some additional data from the book:

Russians from eastern parts of Estonia:

86.2% Light Eyed

37.6% Light and Dark blonde

25.3% Light Brown

26.5% Brown

10.6% Dark Brown and Black.

Northern Latvians

84.3% Light eyes

5.5% Dark-mixed

10.2% Brown.

60.9% Light Haired (i guess Blonde to Light Brown)

24.4% Brown

14.7% Dark Brown to Black

Both Estonians and Latvians are what can be called predominantly blond nations. They are comparable to Scandinavian populations.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Both Estonians and Latvians are what can be called predominantly blond nations. They are comparable to Scandinavian populations.
There is not a single predominantly blonde nation in the world(atleast among males anyway).

http://s005.radikal.ru/i212/1206/b0/a717261b77de.jpg

The 1975 Palsson and Schwidetsky study shown here is literally one of the only, if not the only pigmentation study using non- retarded definitions and correct definitions of hair colour, including not way overestimating red hair in Ireland/Scotland or calling brown hair with a tiny red hue in certain lighting "red".

I don't know if people who overestimate it are colourblind, are too dumb to tell the difference between sun reflection and hair colour, or if I'm colour blind, but this is my opinion.

Also disagree with the OP's source(the differences between the countries are likely correct, which is all what anyone really cares about, but there's no way Estonians are 50% blonde and not even including dark blonde). Quickly looked at the current Estonian football team, many pictures, individually, of all footballers with Estonian surnames, only 11 of 31 are blonde and that's including dirty/dark blonde, which is 35%. Latvian football team has 5 out of 24 blondes, which is 20%. Also did Sweden's football team, 12 out of 34, 35% and had Sweden's parliament from before, no extremely old people without a clear hair colour, no foreign surnames, males only, 40 out of 115 are blonde, again 35%, both of which are right around Palsson's number for Denmark/Norway.

[Lucas]

There is not a single predominantly blonde nation in the world(atleast among males anyway).

http://s005.radikal.ru/i212/1206/b0/a717261b77de.jpg

The 1975 Palsson and Schwidetsky study shown here is literally one of the only, if not the only pigmentation study using non- retarded definitions and correct definitions of hair colour, including not way overestimating red hair in Ireland/Scotland or calling brown hair with a tiny red hue in certain lighting "red".

I don't know if people who overestimate it are colourblind, are too dumb to tell the difference between sun reflection and hair colour, or if I'm colour blind, but this is my opinion.

Also disagree with the OP's source(the differences between the countries are likely correct, which is all what anyone really cares about, but there's no way Estonians are 50% blonde and not even including dark blonde). Quickly looked at the current Estonian football team, many pictures, individually, of all footballers with Estonian surnames, only 11 of 31 are blonde and that's including dirty/dark blonde, which is 35%. Latvian football team has 5 out of 24 blondes, which is 20%. Also did Sweden's football team, 12 out of 34, 35% and had Sweden's parliament from before, no extremely old people without a clear hair colour, no foreign surnames, males only, 40 out of 115 are blonde, again 35%, both of which are right around Palsson's number for Denmark/Norway.

I generaly agree. In this table Sweden is outlier because it is Lundman older study (based partly on older Lundborg).

But you must remember that Palsson and Schwidetzky blond range is very strict (A-L and N). In most other surveys as (dark)blond were counted M or M + O. Sometimes even P or Q. We can debate if it was good or not. But it's hard to find other studies with such strict scale.

[Supercomputer]

I generaly agree. In this table Sweden is outlier because it is Lundman older study (based partly on older Lundborg).

But you must remember that Palsson and Schwidetzky blond range is very strict (A-L and N). In most other surveys as (dark)blond were counted M or M + O. Sometimes even P or Q. We can debate if it was good or not. But it's hard to find other studies with such strict scale.

So are you saying Lundman used different criteria for blond? Sweden's number is twice as high as Denmark and Norway is it is very unlikely that the criteria is the same despite the chart showing A-L+N for all countries. Or was the study for Sweden done on younger people.

[Lucas]

So are you saying Lundman used different criteria for blond? Sweden's number is twice as high as Denmark and Norway is it is very unlikely that the criteria is the same despite the chart showing A-L+N for all countries. Or was the study for Sweden done on younger people.

In other Palsson paper it was added that for Sweden (in this table) was used besides Lundman 1945 also Lundborg 1926 data. Or Ludman used Lundborg, hard to say. I think you can find Lundborg paper on-line and check.

[Lucas]

So are you saying Lundman used different criteria for blond? Sweden's number is twice as high as Denmark and Norway is it is very unlikely that the criteria is the same despite the chart showing A-L+N for all countries. Or was the study for Sweden done on younger people.

There are Lundman criteria from Dala Allmogens Antropologi 1945... I don't understand it:)

https://i.postimg.cc/Mzqk5vZP/20150711-162546.png

[Lucas]

There are Lundman criteria from Dala Allmogens Antropologi 1945... I don't understand it:)

https://i.postimg.cc/Mzqk5vZP/20150711-162546.png

Anyway his data from this book. Mean values for Swedish men are reversed comparing to table (41 light /59 dark hair).

https://i.postimg.cc/yNYqNrx3/Bez-nazwy-9.png

[Supercomputer]

Anyway his data from this book. Mean values for Swedish men are reversed comparing to table (41 light /59 dark hair).

https://i.postimg.cc/yNYqNrx3/Bez-nazwy-9.png

I read somewhere Lundman's book has data for pigmentation of Swedes per region including maps. Do you have it?

[Supercomputer]

Anyway his data from this book. Mean values for Swedish men are reversed comparing to table (41 light /59 dark hair).

https://i.postimg.cc/yNYqNrx3/Bez-nazwy-9.png

Do you have one of those for eyes?

[Supercomputer]

Light Hair map

https://i.imgur.com/CfnUCAd.png



Looks very similar to this

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/rastyper-karta04.jpg

I like it when maps confirm each other.

[Roy]

I made a chart of Baltics (Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian) and also Belarusian blondness based on a Soviet study. Hair Color is categorized by Fisher Scale, Eye color by Bunak scale.


AVG higher = darker
Pure Blue & Light Gray = 9-12 Bunak Scale
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel = 5-8 Bunak Scale
Pure Brown = 1-4 Bunak Sale

1.) Estonians (n=1140 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 5,2%
Light Blond 5,5%
Blond 30,4%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 41,6%
Dark 17,2%
AVG Hair color: 2,526

Pure Blue & Light Gray 58%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 39,7%
Pure Brown 2,65%
AVG Eye color: 0,443

2.) Latvians (n=1133 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 1,3%
Light Blond 6,6%
Blond 16,8%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 45,9%
Dark 29,3%
AVG Hair color: 2,854

Pure Blue & Light Gray 58,7%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 38,4%
Pure Brown 3,3%
AVG Eye color: 0,441


3.) Lithuanians (n=1180 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 0,6%
Light Blond 7,1%
Blond 18%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 42,5%
Dark 31,1%
AVG Hair color: 2,851


Pure Blue & Light Gray 54,8%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 42,4%
Pure Brown 3,2%
AVG Eye color: 0,481

4.) Belarusians (n=186 over 2 locations)

Very Light Blond /
Light Blond 5,2%
Blond 24,65%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 53,8%
Dark 16,3%
AVG Hair color: 2,68

Pure Blue & Light Gray 63,4%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 32,2%
Pure Brown 4,4%
AVG Eye color: 0,41

It confirms what I've already believed - Estonians are the lightest, while Lithuanians darkest. Int seems that in hair color, Estonians stand out, while Latvians and Lithuanians are the same. In eye color it's the Lithuanians who stand out as darker, while Latvians and Estonians are about equal.

Source:
https://i.postimg.cc/JsZH4Gsh/Detail-pigmentation-of-Baltics-Belarus-and-part-of-Russia.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JsZH4Gsh)

It is interesting that Lithuanians seem to have more very light hair and dark hair than Latvians but at the same time Latvians have higher percentage of light hair.

[Komintasavalta]

Yes, for whole Lithuania and Latvia it was latest (Cheboksarov & Vitov & Mark). It was published in two papers (one 1954 and second 1959 if remember correctly).

Few years later Denisova published her data but I think only for some regions and it was also collected in '50 ( I don't have those papers). But if you could find her data for living would be great. I can only find those for Baltic craniology.
For Belarus Polesye you can find some data from '70? (Tegako).

So I guess the images posted by the OP are from the book "Этническая антропология Восточной Прибалтики (1959) by Vitov, Mark, and Cheboksarov (volume 2 of "Труды Прибалтийской объединенной комплексной экспедиции").

By searching for "таблица 5", I found the table posted by the OP on pages 60-61 (https://books.google.com/books?id=BC5xAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=таблица+5).

The book was cited like this: "Витов М. В., Mарк К. Ю., Чебоксаро в H. Н. Этническая антропология Восточной Прибалтики. «Труды прибалтийской комплексной экспедиции АН СССР». М, 1959.". It was cited in English like this: "Vitov, M.V., Mark, K. & Cheboksarov, N.N. (1959): Ethnic anthropology of the EasternBaltic. - Proceedings of the Baltic united complex expedition, Vol. 2. - Moscow, 237 p.(in Russian)."



Pure Blue & Light Gray = 9-12 Bunak Scale
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel = 5-8 Bunak Scale
Pure Brown = 1-4 Bunak Sale

1.) Estonians (n=1140 over 13 locations)

Very Light Blond 5,2%
Light Blond 5,5%
Blond 30,4%
Dark Blond/Light Brown 41,6%
Dark 17,2%
AVG Hair color: 2,526

Pure Blue & Light Gray 58%
Gray, Yellow-Gray, Green and Hazel 39,7%
Pure Brown 2,65%
AVG Eye color: 0,443

In Heapost 2008 (Pigmentation variation in Finno-Ugric peoples) (https://www.etis.ee/Portal/Publications/Display/1fd319c0-7408-4e31-9f18-b9b3010eabad), Estonians are also listed as having only 3.0% dark eyes, 31.0% "mottled" eyes, and 66.0% light eyes. The sample size was 1,282 men. They probably counted light brown eyes as "mottled" rather than dark, even though the paper says this:


Eye colour was fixed according to V. Bunak's scheme by 12 numbers, which were later summarized into a three-point system: 1. black, 2. dark brown, 3. light brown and 4. yellow - 2 points (dark); 5. dark mottled, 6. greenish, 7 light mottled 8. greenish, with yellow middle - 1 point (mottled); 9. grey, 10. bluish grey, 11. blue, 12. light blue - 0 points (light).

[Roy]

Do you think there was in the past some secluded tribe that was 90% blonde as adults?

[Sandis]

In Latvia we also have regional differences in hair and eye color distribution:

Samples with ethnic Latvian female morphs.
From left:

1. Eastern Semigallia (N=107)
2. Northwestern Courland (n=127)
3. Northwestern Vidzeme (n=123)

https://i.ibb.co/HH0vr38/avg-AZemgale-107.png https://i.ibb.co/0cB8r9N/avg-ZRKurzeme-127.png https://i.ibb.co/BZFmstz/avg-ZRVidzeme123.png

Livonians on average have darker hair color than Latvians, and Northwestern Vidzeme has greater Livonian ancestry.
Some parts of Southern Courland also have darker hair color because of Curonian descent. Dark hair color was also common among Curonians.

[Komintasavalta]

Here's Latvian pigmentation numbers from the image in the first post of this thread (which is from Vitov, Mark, and Cheboksarov 1959 (https://books.google.fi/books?id=BC5xAAAAMAAJ&q=таблица+5)):

(percentage of blonde and light brown hair;percentage of pure blue and gray eyes;sample size;Russian name;Latvian name;region)
81.1;62.2;90;вентспилсские;Ventspils;Kurzeme
65.9;57.8;88;алсунгские;Alsunga;Kurzeme
70.7;58.8;92;айзпутские;Aizpute;Kurzeme
58.6;55.1;99;лиепайские;Liepāja;Kurzeme
55.1;58.2;89;добельские;Dobele;Zemgale
72.6;67.0;73;элейские;Eleja;Zemgale
75.8;55.3;95;лимбажские;Limbaži;Vidzeme
74.4;53.4;78;цасисские;Cēsis;Vidzeme
85.9;51.0;85;мадонские;Madona;Vidzeme
70.4;58.8;71;алуксненские;Alūksne;Vidzeme
82.1;57.4;95;вилянские;Viļāni;Latgale
61.3;59.1;93;наретские;Nereta;Zemgale
64.7;69.6;85;даугавпилсские;Daugavpils;Latgale

(Edit: Fixed наретские.)

Here's averages for each region weighted by sample size:

(percentage of blonde and light brown hair;percentage of pure blue and gray eyes;sample size;region)
76.9;54.5;329;Vidzeme
68.8;58.4;369;Kurzeme (Courland)
73.9;63.2;180;Latgale (Latgallia)
62.4;61.0;255;Zemgale (Semigallia)

Based on the table above, Vidzeme had the lightest hair but darkest eyes. Contrary to the morphs by Sandis, Zemgale actually had the darkest hair.

I don't know if the measurements at different locations were performed by different people who used different criteria.

Compared to the Latvian average, Livs had around the same percentage of light hair but about 8 percentage points more light eyes. However the sample size for Livs was only 43.

(percentage of blonde and light brown hair;percentage of pure blue and gray eyes;sample size;population)
70.5;58.6;1133;Latvians (all)
69.8;66.3;43;Livs (Dundaga)

[Sandis]

About Semigallia. Semigallia also is different. I divide it in the northern, western, central and eastern part.

Northern Semigallia anthropologically cluster better with Northeastern Courland.
According to my research Eastern Semigallia has lightest hair and eye color on avarge from all 4 parts, but there can be some darker areas around Bauska where the Votic ancestry is found.
Northern Semigallia has the darkest eye color, and Western Semigallia has the darkest hair color.
Basically the more to the east you go, the pigmentation is lighter.

In the data shown above we have Dobele from Western Semigallia, Eleja from Central Semigallia, and Eleja is lighter.

наретские looks like Nereta. Then it is Selonia, not Kurzeme.

Ventspils has the darkest hair color. My sample N2 is mostly from Ventspils and Ventspils area, but not only, there are also from Kuldiga and Dundaga area. My samples have a quite evenly regional distribution.

According to my data Vidzeme is above Courland by eye color lightness. It could depend on which places are included in the samples. Some parts of Courland are quite light by hair or eye color.
Also many people from Southern Courland have Semigallian and Latgalian descent from previous centuries. Latgalians and Semigallians (at least Semigallians from Eastern Semigallia and Vidzeme) were lighter than Curonians.

[Sandis]

It is interesting how that sample above shows that Ventspils has the lightest hair. Maybe my area was too wide. I included also some areas from Central Courland (Kuldiga) where hair color is the darkest (related to Curonians). There is a great regional variation in Courland.
Maybe hair color darkening could be related also with later migrations after the war.
Or there was some noise in the data.
This brown hair color distribution map is made by Swedish antropolog Gaston Backman. Published in 1950s, but made earlier.

https://i.ibb.co/hf6Nfnr/sample.png

[Lucas]

For comparison book on Latvian anthropology from pre-war period.

8 in Fischer scale in some classifications is also "medium" not blond.

https://i.imgur.com/m09MRyH.png

https://i.imgur.com/uq9mN3v.png

https://i.imgur.com/vkNdiUC.png

[Sandis]

I just run shell commands for Ventspils City only (n=54).
Result looks a bit lighter compared to the right:

https://i.ibb.co/4Pd9cmc/avg-Ventspils-54.png https://i.ibb.co/0cB8r9N/avg-ZRKurzeme-127.png

Those pre-war sample sizes for Courland and Latgale are small.

[Sandis]

If we compare data from 1950s with my morphs, average value is more important.
Higher index means darker hair color.
Average values from the same table:

3.18;лиепайские;Liepāja;Kurzeme
2.89;вентспилсские;Ventspils;Kurzeme
2.85;алсунгские;Alsunga;Kurzeme
2.74;айзпутские;Aizpute;Kurzeme

2.92;добельские;Dobele;Zemgale
2.85;элейские;Eleja;Zemgale

2.87;наретские;Nereta;Sēlija

2.84;цасисские;Cēsis;Vidzeme
2.79;мадонские;Madona;Vidzeme
2.78;лимбажские;Limbaži;Vidzeme
2.73;алуксненские;Alūksne;Vidzeme

3.05;даугавпилсские;Daugavpils;Latgale
2.62;вилянские;Viļāni;Latgale

Ventspils has low light-blonde hair color incidence, that's why index is high.

[Supercomputer]

For comparison book on Latvian anthropology from pre-war period.

8 in Fischer scale in some classifications is also "medium" not blond.

https://i.imgur.com/m09MRyH.png

https://i.imgur.com/uq9mN3v.png

https://i.imgur.com/vkNdiUC.png
Is this study anywhere online? I'd like to have it as a source for my light eyes map of Europe.

[Lucas]

Is this study anywhere online? I'd like to have it as a source for my light eyes map of Europe.

Check under this title. It was on-line on some Latvian university library.

[Supercomputer]

For comparison book on Latvian anthropology from pre-war period.

https://i.imgur.com/uq9mN3v.png



Strange. It shows only around 67% light eyes (8-16). That would make Latvians darker eyed than the Poles who have 72% by the same standards (also using the exact same Martin scale). There are a lot of eyes number 7. Perhaps they classified all eyes with any small yellowish parts under the colour 7 and put dark hazel ones under number 6. With this criteria (7-16) they have 82% light eyes, which is almost exactly as other studies show. It just shows you how eye colour classification is subjective and no an actual scientific process.

[Lucas]

Strange. It shows only around 67% light eyes (8-16). That would make Latvians darker eyed than the Poles who have 72% by the same standards (also using the exact same Martin scale). There are a lot of eyes number 7. Perhaps they classified all eyes with any small yellowish parts under the colour 7 and put dark hazel ones under number 6. With this criteria (7-16) they have 82% light eyes, which is almost exactly as other studies show. It just shows you how eye colour classification is subjective and no an actual scientific process.


Strange. It shows only around 67% light eyes (8-16). That would make Latvians darker eyed than the Poles who have 72% by the same standards (also using the exact same Martin scale). There are a lot of eyes number 7. Perhaps they classified all eyes with any small yellowish parts under the colour 7 and put dark hazel ones under number 6. With this criteria (7-16) they have 82% light eyes, which is almost exactly as other studies show. It just shows you how eye colour classification is subjective and no an actual scientific process.

But looks also how they mixed range is strange. 8 is light but 9 and 10 not.
I really agree with you, we can treat as light both mixed and light ranges here.

[Septentrion]

Strange. It shows only around 67% light eyes (8-16). That would make Latvians darker eyed than the Poles who have 72% by the same standards (also using the exact same Martin scale). There are a lot of eyes number 7. Perhaps they classified all eyes with any small yellowish parts under the colour 7 and put dark hazel ones under number 6. With this criteria (7-16) they have 82% light eyes, which is almost exactly as other studies show. It just shows you how eye colour classification is subjective and no an actual scientific process.

Yes, in my sources Latvians are about 80% light - eyed. They are obviously lighter - eyed than Poles, Russians, Germans, Dutch, etc…. The dark eyes are not all pure dark either.

[Sandis]

Yes, in my sources Latvians are about 80% light - eyed. They are obviously lighter - eyed than Poles, Russians, Germans, Dutch, etc…. The dark eyes are not all pure dark either.

If green and gray-green are counted as light, then it can be close to 80 pct. in most of regions, otherwise closer to 70 pct. as i remember, but i will check my studies.

[Sandis]

I tried to connect the Bunak's scale to my studies, but it is incompatible. I got too low Eye color index, because i counted No. 8 (light with brown-yellow spots) in the light category, but in Bunak's scale it is mixed:

https://i0.u-mama.ru/e94/5bf/a2d/d5d1220f29cebf7f562dda65619218e6.jpg

I introduced my own scale with 4 categories: light, light mixed. dark mixed and dark (values 1-4). Here are the results by district of Latvia (colors assigned by average value and doesn't match the real color, sample sizes are different, colors mostly in the range from 30 to 100, and there could be some noise, for example, suspicious light district on the east):

https://i.ibb.co/ns9rzCt/indexes3.jpg

[Septentrion]

If green and gray-green are counted as light, then it can be close to 80 pct. in most of regions, otherwise closer to 70 pct. as i remember, but i will check my studies.

Obviously green, gray, green - gray eyes are light eyes. What, you thought they were dark eyes? Some gray eyes are even lighter than blue eyes. Whoever counts green or gray eyes has no sense or needs glasses. The most common eye color among Latvians according to my most recent source is a bluish - gray. If we combine all light colors where there is no brown, it adds up to 80%. So Latvians in eye color are similar to the British, but are more blonde-headed.

[Sandis]

Obviously green, gray, green - gray eyes are light eyes. What, you thought they were dark eyes? Some gray eyes are even lighter than blue eyes. Whoever counts green or gray eyes has no sense or needs glasses. The most common eye color among Latvians according to my most recent source is a bluish - gray. If we combine all light colors where there is no brown, it adds up to 80%. So Latvians in eye color are similar to the British, but are more blonde-headed.

I got even more: 85 pct. light when green, gray, green-gray are included. It varied from 73 to 95 depending on the district.

[Septentrion]

I got even more: 85 pct. light when green, gray, green-gray are included. It varied from 73 to 95 depending on the district.

Sure. This would not be surprising as it is a Baltic country.

[Septentrion]

I've met four Latvians in my life, three girls and one boy, all Latvian, not Russian ethnic: three were brown haired (medium and dark), one was blond (pretty light shade), two had grey eyes (lighter than blue), two had brown eyes (not hazel). other than this, they all looked like a Slavic-Germanic mix, tendency towards Germanic, though probably this is what Baltic look is, neither Germanic nor Slavic.

neither was looking as to obviously stick out in northeast Romania (Moldova region), unlike Brits, who many times are very obvious, even when not blond, because of facial traits and head shape.

is there a difference between countryside and towns/cities there as well? countryside seems to have a higher percentage of lighter types across Eastern Europe than the urban area.

What do you expect, Brits are Celtic - Germanic mix. So obviously they do look different from you guys!!!!

[Übermensch]

There are no ethnic latvians with dark eyes! Dark eyed latvians are just antonio banderas offshoots.

[Sandis]

There are no ethnic latvians with dark eyes! Dark eyed latvians are just antonio banderas offshoots.

By my observations ethnic Latvians have 15 pct. brown and hazel eyes. It could be partly from foreign origin, probably some of them have foreign grandparent, but not in the majority, because neighbour countries are not dark either.
I have another cousin with a brown eyes, who doesn't have foreign ancestors in the last 4 generations. Her siblings and parents have light eyes - lightblue, green, gray-green.

[Lucas]

By my observations ethnic Latvians have 15 pct. brown and hazel eyes. It could be partly from foreign origin, probably some of them have foreign grandparent, but not in the majority, because neighbour countries are not dark either.
I have another cousin with a brown eyes, who doesn't have foreign ancestors in the last 4 generations. Her siblings and parents have light eyes - lightblue, green, gray-green.


Could be very old admix rather. Connected maybe to guys who brings Ugrofinnic ancestry to eastern Baltic.

[Peterski]

In Latvia we also have regional differences in hair and eye color distribution:

Samples with ethnic Latvian female morphs.
From left:

1. Eastern Semigallia (N=107)
2. Northwestern Courland (n=127)
3. Northwestern Vidzeme (n=123)

https://i.ibb.co/HH0vr38/avg-AZemgale-107.png https://i.ibb.co/0cB8r9N/avg-ZRKurzeme-127.png https://i.ibb.co/BZFmstz/avg-ZRVidzeme123.png

Livonians on average have darker hair color than Latvians, and Northwestern Vidzeme has greater Livonian ancestry.
Some parts of Southern Courland also have darker hair color because of Curonian descent. Dark hair color was also common among Curonians.

Do you also have some regional Latvian GEDmatch kits, perhaps? From these regions mentioned above (and others).

[Sandis]

Could be very old admix rather. Connected maybe to guys who brings Ugrofinnic ancestry to eastern Baltic.

It could be related to partial Livonian ancestry, seems that they were a bit darker than average Latvian.
If you know pigmentation of ancestors descendants, then you can draw probabilities from which side it comes.

[Sandis]

Do you also have some regional Latvian GEDmatch kits, perhaps? From these regions mentioned above (and others).

I don't have kits. Looks like tey are very rare available.
I remember that in Gedmatch single population sharing data figured Latvian_Cesis and Latvian_Dobele
Latvian_Cesis was closer to Finnic results, especially Mari.
Latvians from Cesis could have significiant Livonian ancestry, but less than Latvians near the sea who are less mixed.

[Sandis]

is there a difference between countryside and towns/cities there as well? countryside seems to have a higher percentage of lighter types across Eastern Europe than the urban area.

I tried to find out if there is a difference between countryside and towns/cities. I divided my Latvian samples into 3 parts: Urban, Rural and Riga. Both Urban and Rural areas had 86 pct light eyes, and Riga was not much different with 85 pct. 9 largest cities (excluding Riga) had 84 pct light eyes.
So difference between countryside and towns/cities is minimal if it can be said that such exists at all.
Among Slavic population both Urban and Rural areas had 80 pct, 9 largest cities (excluding Riga) 79 pct and Riga 67 pct light eyes. Probably sample size for Riga is too small.

Average Latvian (left, n=422) and Slavic (right, n=41) female from Riga.

https://i.ibb.co/qFtkBW1/Latvian-vs-Slavic2.png

[Septentrion]

If green and gray-green are counted as light, then it can be close to 80 pct. in most of regions, otherwise closer to 70 pct. as i remember, but i will check my studies.

Are you OK? Gray, green or a mix of both are light eyes. Why wouldn’t they?

[Dandelion]

https://youtu.be/QxCjuil-h-I?si=DP_SyKC-eEy94wZp

[Septentrion]

There are no ethnic latvians with dark eyes! Dark eyed latvians are just antonio banderas offshoots.

Pure dark eyes are a small minority in all Northern European countries.

[aherne]

neither was looking as to obviously stick out in northeast Romania (Moldova region), unlike Brits, who many times are very obvious, even when not blond, because of facial traits and head shape.

You cannot compare the two: in N parts of republic of Moldova people are mostly East Slavic in look, thus by definition close to other Balto-Slavs. Germanic looks don't exist here: even though I'm only half, I've never seen a single person here that looks remotely like me and he was same mix as mine.

[Nurzat]

You cannot compare the two: in N parts of republic of Moldova people are mostly East Slavic in look, thus by definition close to other Balto-Slavs. Germanic looks don't exist here: even though I'm only half, I've never seen a single person here that looks remotely like me and he was same mix as mine.

the slight overlap in looks with the Eastern Baltic countries is indeed through the Balto-Slavic common looks, not the Germanic extra looks that the Baltics sometimes have (which must also be a relic of when they were part of the Teutonic order and, later, of Sweden)