Post Prussian DNA results.

[Gründig]

I would like to see some Prussian (east, west) DNA results. Does anyone have any?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Yeah, I'm interested too. Asked Lucas about East Prussian dna results but he never answered back. :cry2

[Lucas]

Yeah, I'm interested too. Asked Lucas about East Prussian dna results but he never answered back. :cry2

From obvious reason I can't post their K36 but K15, no problem:) What calcs more?

This guy is from north eastern part of Ostpreussen. I have more results form this area but only their K36 as they were my clients and they don't have Gedmatch accounts.

His surname is German (and all his 4 grandparents) although his family are most likely Germanized Lithuanian as K15 is showing. Or maybe really old Prussians?

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 34.06
2 Eastern_Euro 22.18
3 North_Sea 20.55
4 Atlantic 17.15
5 West_Med 5.18
6 South_Asian 0.82
7 Amerindian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 3.85
2 Belorussian 3.92
3 Estonian_Polish 3.93
4 Russian_Smolensk 6.24
5 Polish 6.54
6 Southwest_Russian 6.78
7 Estonian 7.35
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 7.76
9 Ukrainian 8.73
10 South_Polish 8.75
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.89
12 Kargopol_Russian 11.01
13 Erzya 12.6
14 East_Finnish 14.16
15 Finnish 14.8
16 Croatian 14.83
17 Southwest_Finnish 15.64
18 La_Brana-1 16.96
19 Moldavian 17.31
20 Hungarian 17.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51% Lithuanian + 49% Estonian_Polish @ 2.73
2 94.1% Lithuanian + 5.9% French_Basque @ 2.77
3 93% Lithuanian + 7% Southwest_French @ 2.8
4 69.4% Lithuanian + 30.6% Polish @ 2.84
5 93.3% Lithuanian + 6.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.84
6 93.9% Lithuanian + 6.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.93
7 94% Lithuanian + 6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.99
8 95.8% Lithuanian + 4.2% Sardinian @ 3
9 93.9% Lithuanian + 6.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.01
10 93.5% Lithuanian + 6.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.01
11 93.5% Lithuanian + 6.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.03
12 93.7% Lithuanian + 6.3% Portuguese @ 3.04
13 94% Lithuanian + 6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.06
14 94.2% Lithuanian + 5.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.06
15 94.1% Lithuanian + 5.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.07
16 93.8% Lithuanian + 6.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.08
17 88.9% Lithuanian + 11.1% East_German @ 3.1
18 93.1% Lithuanian + 6.9% French @ 3.12
19 93% Lithuanian + 7% Southwest_English @ 3.13
20 92.4% Lithuanian + 7.6% South_Dutch @ 3.14

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Damn. Nearly fully Baltic. Do you think most East Prussians were like that ? I wonder is other's people K36 similar to this guy, and fully east European ?

[Lucas]

Damn. Nearly fully Baltic. Do you think most East Prussians were like that ? I wonder is other's people K36 similar to this guy, and fully east European ?

No, he is most extreme among my samples.

[Matxe92]

My grandmothers family were West Prussians. They were from around Tczew in Poland today and identified as germans. That makes me quarter prussian. The rest is danish.


Eurogenes K15:
1 82.5% Norwegian + 17.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.72
2 81.7% Norwegian + 18.3% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.76
3 78.2% Norwegian + 21.8% South_Polish @ 2.77
4 68.5% Swedish + 31.5% East_German @ 2.77
5 82.2% North_Dutch + 17.8% Erzya @ 2.8
6 69.9% West_Norwegian + 30.1% South_Polish @ 2.82
7 75.4% West_Norwegian + 24.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.84
8 74.3% West_Norwegian + 25.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.84
9 79.1% Norwegian + 20.9% Polish @ 2.89
10 65.2% Norwegian + 34.8% East_German @ 2.9
11 82.6% Norwegian + 17.4% Southwest_Russian @ 2.9
12 79.5% Norwegian + 20.5% Croatian @ 2.95
13 54.5% West_Norwegian + 45.5% East_German @ 3.02
14 83% Norwegian + 17% Estonian_Polish @ 3.02
15 80% North_Dutch + 20% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.03
16 71.2% West_Norwegian + 28.8% Croatian @ 3.03
17 70.8% West_Norwegian + 29.2% Polish @ 3.05
18 82.9% Norwegian + 17.1% Belorussian @ 3.07
19 75.7% North_Dutch + 24.3% Ukrainian @ 3.08
20 75.4% West_Norwegian + 24.6% Southwest_Russian @ 3.08

AncestryDNA
84991

DNALAND

84992

MyHeritage
84993

I think the general notion is that there is about a quarter eastern european in me. Which could suggest my grandmother is mainly eastern european.
Kinda weird i only get 2% on AncestryDNA though...

[Matxe92]

No, he is most extreme among my samples.

What does your samples say on West prussians? Were most mixed german/slavic?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Holy crap, this dude cluster more northern than SW Finns :icon_lol:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/vhai4m.jpg


No, he is most extreme among my samples.

What are the others like genetically , half-German half Baltic or something similar ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think the general notion is that there is about a quarter eastern european in me. Which could suggest my grandmother is mainly eastern european.
Kinda weird i only get 2% on AncestryDNA though...

Aren't you half Polish ?

[Matxe92]

Aren't you half Polish ?

No. Why did you think that?
75%Danish 25% Polish(Most likely)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

No. Why did you think that?
75%Danish 25% Polish(Most likely)

No idea bruh. But wait, are you quater Polish or quater Prussian (German) ? I'm kinda confused now.

[Matxe92]

No idea bruh. But wait, are you quater Polish or quater Prussian (German) ? I'm kinda confused now.

Well to be totally honest im kinda confused about it aswell. It has given me many sleepness nights haha lol. Nah im kiddin...

My grandmothers family had slavic surnames but german first names. They identified as Germans. The DNA suggests eastern european.

My conclusion is that it must be polish before the Germans took over.

There is a historical angle to this aswell that i wont mention cause it's kinda long.

[Gründig]

Bump

[Peterski]

I would like to see some Prussian (east, west) DNA results. Does anyone have any?

See my old thread Prussian German results (she is mixed from several regions, but all surnames are Germanic):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?204874-Prussian-German-GEDmatch-results

Ancestral surnames (16 g-g grandparents): Steinbach, Liebenau, Gnoss, Scheffler, Hass, Hasse, Voss, Zimmermann, Kopiske, Eichstädt, Feustel, Schmeisser, Hedke, Lück, Neumann, Schulz

^ Kopiske is probably a Germanized Slavic surname.

Regions of birth of her 16 great-great-grandparents:

West Prussia - 5 (Steinbach, Liebenau, Kopiske, Hedke, Lück)
Pomerania - 4 (Zimmermann, Voss, Hasse, Hass)
Provinz Posen - 3 (Eichstädt, Neumann, Schulz)
East Prussia - 2 (Scheffler, Gnoss)
Sachsen - 1 (Schmeisser)
Thüringen - 1 (Feustel)

http://i.imgur.com/oLnGoQk.png

^^^ Her Eurogenes K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.43
2 North_Atlantic 37.01
3 West_Med 12.1
4 West_Asian 4.1
5 East_Med 3.24
6 Red_Sea 1.43
7 Northeast_African 0.63
8 Oceanian 0.6
9 South_Asian 0.43
10 Amerindian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.86
2 Polish 7.61
3 Southwest_Finnish 8.08
4 East_German 8.42
5 Ukrainian 9.22
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.24
7 North_Swedish 9.5
8 Austrian 10.9
9 Hungarian 11.08
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.11
11 Belorussian 11.32
12 Croatian 11.49
13 Estonian_Polish 11.6
14 Estonian 11.88
15 Finnish 12.26
16 Southwest_Russian 12.63
17 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.04
18 Swedish 13.46
19 Lithuanian 14.72
20 North_German 14.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74% Polish + 26% Southwest_English @ 1.98
2 64.7% Estonian_Polish + 35.3% Southwest_English @ 2.04
3 72.1% Polish + 27.9% Orcadian @ 2.19
4 73.9% Polish + 26.1% West_Scottish @ 2.21
5 72.6% Polish + 27.4% Southeast_English @ 2.24
6 65.7% Russian_Smolensk + 34.3% Southwest_English @ 2.26
7 65.3% Belorussian + 34.7% Southwest_English @ 2.28
8 70.1% Polish + 29.9% North_Dutch @ 2.3
9 73.1% Polish + 26.9% Irish @ 2.31
10 55.4% Lithuanian + 44.6% South_Dutch @ 2.33
11 69.3% Polish + 30.7% Norwegian @ 2.45
12 69.9% Polish + 30.1% Danish @ 2.51
13 59% Lithuanian + 41% Southwest_English @ 2.55
14 64.8% Polish + 35.2% Swedish @ 2.56
15 63.5% Estonian_Polish + 36.5% Irish @ 2.56
16 63% Estonian_Polish + 37% Southeast_English @ 2.59
17 64% Russian_Smolensk + 36% Southeast_English @ 2.59
18 64.6% Estonian_Polish + 35.4% West_Scottish @ 2.61
19 57% Lithuanian + 43% Southeast_English @ 2.62
20 62.4% Estonian_Polish + 37.6% Orcadian @ 2.64

[Peterski]

Holy crap, this dude cluster more northern than SW Finns :icon_lol:

http://oi65.tinypic.com/vhai4m.jpg

He clusters very close to ethnic Poles from Suwałki that I posted before; especially close to Su1:

https://i.imgur.com/ZvMEbeu.png


My conclusion is that it must be polish before the Germans took over.

See my thread about West Prussia ethnic groups: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?271066-Kingdom-of-Prussia-ethnic-and-religious-structure-in-the-1800s

Ethnic groups in early 1800s West Prussia according to Georg Hassel:

https://i.imgur.com/5hcNzeO.png

Ethnic groups in early 1800s West Prussia according to Karl Andree:

https://i.imgur.com/zebF1QP.png

Were your ancestors Roman Catholics or Protestants? If Catholics then likely ethnically Polish.


They were from around Tczew

What type of citizenship did they have in 1918-1939, Polish or Free City's?

Tczew was right at the Inter-War Border (Vistula River bridge in Tczew is where WW2 started):

https://i.imgur.com/SmblfGR.png

[Matxe92]

Were your ancestors Roman Catholics or Protestants? If Catholics then likely ethnically Polish.

What type of citizenship did they have in 1918-1939, Polish or Free City's?

Tczew was right at the Inter-War Border (Vistula River bridge in Tczew is where WW2 started):

https://i.imgur.com/SmblfGR.png

1)
They were all roman catholics. And yes that is my view aswell, i think that leans them towards being polish more.

2)
They moved to Danzig after WW1 and changed Dombrowski to Eichler as surname. So they must have had german citizenship, but i believe they could have had that before aswell.

[Peterski]

2)
They moved to Danzig after WW1 and changed Dombrowski to Eichler as surname. So they must have had german citizenship, but i believe they could have had that before aswell.

Well before WW1 everyone had German citizenship in this region. In 1919 after Versailles there were so called optants - if you lived in area which became part of Poland you could opt for German citizenship and move to Germany. If you lived in area which remained German you could also opt for Polish citizenship and move to the territory of Poland. It looks like they opted to move out of Poland (Tczew was on the Polish side of the border). In 1919-1920 around 125,000 people in West Prussia opted to move from Poland to Germany or to Free City Danzig and at least 53,000 opted to move in the opposite direction (from Germany to Polish part of West Prussia).

[Matxe92]

Well before WW1 everyone had German citizenship in this region. In 1919 after Versailles there were so called optants - if you lived in area which became part of Poland you could opt for German citizenship and move to Germany. If you lived in area which remained German you could also opt for Polish citizenship and move to the territory of Poland. It looks like they opted to move out of Poland (Tczew was on the Polish side of the border). In 1919-1920 around 125,000 people in West Prussia opted to move from Poland to Germany or to Free City Danzig and at least 53,000 opted to move in the opposite direction (from Germany to Polish part of West Prussia).

Treason to their own people if you ask me, annoys me. But they had their reasons of course.

Poles were viewed so extremely poorly by germans at that time, so obviously that played into it. Also they were indoctrinated over many many years before these events by the germans.

I imagine only the hardcore polish nationalist that were left chose Poland instead of Germany.

Cheers for the comment though.

[Peterski]

Treason to their own people if you ask me, annoys me. But they had their reasons of course.

Have you considered testing your grandmother's DNA?

Well it looks like you have a similar family history as Angela Merkel. Her grandfather was ethnically Polish and Roman Catholic and his surname was Kazmierczak. But after WW1 he also opted for Germany, moved to Berlin and Germanized his surname to Kasner. And then after WW2 he became, AFAIK, a Communist activist / supporter / politician in East Germany (that's why Angela Merkel was a member of some Communist youth organization as a teenager). They were "changing their colors" few times, lol.

You could argue that with her "Refugees Welcome" policies Angela Merkel is continuing the family's tradition of treason to their own people, lol. Well at least that is how German nationalists see it. If you ask me then I personally think that multiculturalism is very good for Germany.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Prussian is like British - it was not an ethnicity.

Prussia was a multiethnic kingdom.

Yeah, true. When somebody mention Prussian, I immediately think of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz

Clausewitz xD

[Peterski]

No idea bruh. But wait, are you quater Polish or quater Prussian (German)? I'm kinda confused now.

Prussian is a lot like British - it was not an ethnicity.

Prussia was a multiethnic kingdom. Prussian Poles can be compared to e.g. Scots in the UK.

He is a quarter Prussian Polish apparently.

But just like some Scots are pro-Union and anti-separatist, his ancestors were apparently also against Polish separatism within Prussia and quite pro-German.


I imagine only the hardcore polish nationalist that were left

Prussian Poles had the strongest Polish national consciousness of all 3 partitions (stronger than Austrian Poles and Russian Poles). With some exceptions of course.


Yeah, true. When somebody mention Prussian, I immediately think of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz

Clausewitz xD

Yeah he was from Brandenburg and his surname is of Slavic origin.

[Leto]

No. Why did you think that?
75%Danish 25% Polish(Most likely)
Are you actually Danish, not Danish American?

[celticdragongod]

No, he is most extreme among my samples.

Which group or groups do your Prussian samples cluster with? Germans or non-Germans?

[Peterski]

Prussian Jew (Provinz Posen), ancestral surnames - Tannenbaum & Knobloch:

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.7
2 West_Med 17.48
3 West_Asian 15.5
4 Atlantic 11.46
5 North_Sea 8.68
6 Red_Sea 7.63
7 Baltic 5.32
8 Eastern_Euro 2.9
9 South_Asian 1.56
10 Northeast_African 1.5
11 Siberian 0.96
12 Southeast_Asian 0.67
13 Sub-Saharan 0.64

How she plots here:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

Prussian Jewish: Abscisse (x-axis): 651 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 464 pixel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfjzzuSg9o


Which group or groups do your Prussian samples cluster with? Germans or non-Germans?

Prussian Jews plot close to Sicilians. :) Like most of the rest of Ashkenazi Jews.

[Matxe92]

Are you actually Danish, not Danish American?

Yeah i am actual danish NOT american.

[celticdragongod]

Prussian Jew (Provinz Posen), ancestral surnames - Tannenbaum & Knobloch:

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 25.7
2 West_Med 17.48
3 West_Asian 15.5
4 Atlantic 11.46
5 North_Sea 8.68
6 Red_Sea 7.63
7 Baltic 5.32
8 Eastern_Euro 2.9
9 South_Asian 1.56
10 Northeast_African 1.5
11 Siberian 0.96
12 Southeast_Asian 0.67
13 Sub-Saharan 0.64

How she plots here:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

Prussian Jewish: Abscisse (x-axis): 651 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 464 pixel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfjzzuSg9o



Prussian Jews plot close to Sicilians. :) Like most of the rest of Ashkenazi Jews.

What about Prussian gentiles?

[Slavic Italian]

Yeah, true. When somebody mention Prussian, I immediately think of this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz

Clausewitz xD

I am a good bit Prussian.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13nFDtn0bKjFYQBNczK_pw7Wg-vMTNnfM/view