Who are serbs indeed.

[Labeat]

The original Serboi were probably Sarmatian (Iranian) tribe, who lived in Eastern Europe (Sarmatia Asiatica), to the north of the Caucasus. The earliest historical records about these Sarmatian Serbs dates from the 1st century, in the works of the historian Tacitus (ca. 50 AD) and geographer Pliny (Plinius) (69-75 AD).

In the fourth century, these Sarmatian Serbs, together with Huns and Alans, moved to Central Europe, and were found dwelling near the Elbe, in a region designated as White Serbia, in what is now Sachsen (eastern Germany) and western Poland. The Sarmatian Serbs, it is argued, intermarried with the indigenous Slavs of the region, adopted their language, and transferred their name to the Slavs. Since the white colour was designation for the west, name 'White Serbia' actually could mean 'Western Serbia'.

Byzantine sources report that part of the Serbs (already a Slavic people by that time) then migrated southward in the seventh century and eventually settled in the lands that now make up southern Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Herzegovina. In this region, Serbs mixed with other Slavic tribes (which settled there in the sixth century) and with descendants of indigenous peoples of the Balkans.

The Serbs were mentioned as Serboi by Pliny the Younger in his Geographica in the first century AD (69-75) as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. In the 2nd century, Herodotus writes in his Persian Wars that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea. In the fourth century the Carpathians are mentioned as Montes Serrorum (Serb mountains?) by the Roman emperor Licinius.

In the Caucasus, the homeland of the Sarmatian Serbs, they left their traces around the river Volga (Araxes in Greek). In modern Georgian, that river is called "Rashki". This name was used by Balkan Serbs as a name for their first state and is found wherever the name Serb is found in clusters indicating settlements. It is often used to designate hydronyms and likely meant 'river' or 'water' in Old Serb.

The Serbs possibly migrated in two directions from the Caucasus, northwest and northeast. Those who went northwest became overlords of the Slavs. There they established a mighty empire and became slavicized. Konstantine Porfirogenitus called this "White Serbia". Their descendants are known as Lusatian Serbs today and despite Germanization, a few thousand still remain on the territory of former East Germany. These we can also call 'White Serbs'.

There is a theory that the other branch of Sarmatian Serbs maybe moved northeast to the southern base of the Urals, and settled there for a time. We can call them 'Volga Serbs'. They possibly moved eastwards, deep into Siberia, leaving traces in the names towns along the coast of the Sea of Japan. They faded out with the onslaught from the Mongols. These we can call 'Siberian Serbs'. It is even possible that Siberia was named after this Old Serb tribe.

The White Serbs were probably completely Slavicized by the 6th century. Their Slavicized descendants are today's Lusatian Sorbs. One branch of these White Serbs have left White Serbia, and according to Porfirogenitus, came to the Balkans (7th century), invited by Heracleus, defeated the Avars and were given Macedonia to inhabit. There they took the already settled Slavs (who began arriving in the 5th and 6th centuries) under their control and mixed with them to form the modern Serb nation.

These Slavs who came before the Serbs had already assimilated the Illyrians, who were an Indo-European people. Many historians agree that the old Serbs were not Slavs, but a non-Slavic caste that ruled over the Slavs, though the Serbs who entered the Balkans in the 7th century, were mainly Slavs who had adopted the Serbian name.

[Labeat]

http://www.savekosova.org/forum/images/Migration_of_Serbs.png

Sarbans are a tribal group of Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The Sarbans include several Pashtun tribes, among whom the most numerous are the Tareen, Miani and Durrani tribe.

According to legend, the Sarbans are descendants of Sarban, who was one of the sons of Qais Abdur Rashid, the common ancestor of the Pashtun people.

The name itself has been linked to another Iranic group called the Serboi, who have been related theorized as ancestors of Serbs. Pashtun people have also been linked with the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel , with comparison between Ashkenazi Jewish and Pashtun DNA. Ashkenazis have been linked with the Khazars, a Turkic group from the Pontic steppes and the Caucausus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbans

[Mordid]

http://www.funnypictures.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/oh..god_.jpg

[poiuytrewq0987]

By your logic, the Albanians came from the Caucasus.

http://www.travel-images.com/az-caucasus-ancient.gif

[Labeat]

By this your logic also we came from Scotland , read how was Scotland called ,and Spaniards came from Iberia too so dont ridicule yourself.

[poiuytrewq0987]

By this your logic also we came from Scotland , read how was Scotland called ,and Spaniards came from Iberia too so dont ridicule yourself.

Says the guy who is trolling with this Iranian fairy tale. :D

[Labeat]

Serbs
Now, we turn to the connection with the Serbs. Several historians maintain that the Serbian ruling caste shared the same origin as the Croats. Prof. Malcolm recently wrote a book "Bosnia" (Malcolm 1996), in which he clearly elucidates the Iranic origin of both Serbs and Croats. For instance, Prof. Salzman notes while reviewing Malcolm's first chapter:
"The Croats and Serbs (who were either Slavic tribes with Iranian ruling castes or Iranian tribes with Slavic subjects) arrived in the Balkans in the 620s, a land already occupied by the Slavs." (Salzman 1999)
The view of Prof. Malcolm is thus that the Croats and Serbs were originally Iranic speakers who adopted a Slavic language (Malcolm 1996). Examples of a conquering immigrant group adopting the language of its surrounding subjects abound in history. For example, the Scandinavian Normans adopted the Romance French language in Normandy, while their ruling kinsmen in England adopted Anglo-Saxon; the Germanic Franks, Merovingians and Carolingians adopted the Romance French language; the Nordic Visigoths adopted the Romance Spanish language; the Germanic Lombards adopted the Romance Italian language, and the Tungus Manchu adopted the Chinese language of their subjects. Likewise, the Jats were originally speakers of Scythian or East Iranic languages, who subsequently adopted an Indo-Aryan language. Hence, that the Iranic Croats and Serbs should adopt a Slavic language would not be unusual in any way.

The Croats were also commonly named by the medieval chroniclers as "Goths":
"The old Croatian chronicle 'The Kingdom of the Croats' and the 'Chronicle of Pop Dukljanin', based on Croatian national tradition and on the ancient records, states that the Croats whom they misnamed the Goths arrived for the north through Pannonia and Templana (6) in Dalmatia, which they conquered and settled. (7)" (Mandic 1970, ch.3)
This is important because the ethnonym "Jat" is widely considered a variant of "Goth" and its Greco-Latin variant "Getae". In this connection, Prof. Lozinski notes: (Lozinski 1964, Vernadsky 1952)
"Professor Vernadsky [25. Vernadsky, G., Ancient Russia (New Haven, 1951), pp. 50-55; an older, less scholarly attempt in this direction: Cuno, J. G., Forschungen im Gebiete der alten Voelkerkunde. Die Skythen (Berlin, 1870), pp. 225-286] was the first, in modern times, to suggest that the Slavs had direct Iranian antecedents. The derivation of both names from religious designations, as suggested above, may be considered as additional evidence, especially as most of the Slavic gods bear purely Iranian, or Indian, names. [26. Vernadsky, G., Kievan Russia (New Haven, 1951), pp. 50-55; Krappe, A. N., "La chute du paganisme a Kiev," Revue des eludes slaves, XVII (1937), 208. Rozwadowski, J., "Stosunki leksykalne miedzy jazykami slowianskimi a iranskiemi," Rocznik orientalistyczny, I (1914/15), 95-110, esp. 110] One of the Slavic groups, the Poles, called themselves Sarmatians; this name was recorded very early in Western Medieval chronicles [27. Ulewicz, T., "Okolo genealogii sarmatyzmu," Pamietnik slowianski, I, (1949), 105-107], which lends credence to the traditions recorded in Polish chronicles edited at the waning of the Middle Ages, according to which they were in touch with the Iranians. [28. Bohomolec, F., Zbior dziejow polskich (Warszawa, 1767-68), III, Cromer M., Kronika, 5, 17, 19, 28; IV, Guagnino, A., Kronika Sarmucyey europeyskiey, 1 f., 7, 13, 16, 513.; Magistri Vincenti ep. Cracoviensis, Chronica Polonorum, ed. A. Przeidziecki (Krakow, 1862), 76 (cf. Paszkiewicz, op. cit., 360); Bielski, M., Kronika Polska (N. ed., Krakow, 1597), Introduction, passim., cf. Chrzanowski, I., Marcin Bielski (Lwow, 1926), 101-108, 504. ] In Antiquity the Sarmatians, as is well known, were the Alans. [29. Vernadsky 1952] The meaning of the name "Sarmata" in Iranian is the "council." [30. Vernadsky, G., and Dzanty, Dzambulant, "The Ossetian Tale of Iry Dada and Mstislav," Journal of American Folklore, LXIX (1956), 234, n. 39.] It refers not to the nationality or language, but to the social organization of the Alans, ruled by a supreme council, appointing the king. [31. Strabo, XI, ix, 3.] The role of the council in early Slavic history is well known, especially among the Western Slavs. Thus the social, or political, organization of the Iranian Alans and Polish Slavs offers evidence of their affiliation." (Lozinski 1964)

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php

[Monolith]

Says the guy who is trolling with this Iranian fairy tale. :D
It's not a fairy tale. Well, at least not completely. I think there's some kind of consensus in the academic circles that both Serbian and Croatian ethnonyms are derived from some Iranian word. So they were originaly either exonyms, given to certain Slavic populations by their Iranian neighbors, or these Slavs were ruled by Iranian elites and eventually assimilated them. The latter would make them similar to Russians (Varangians - Rus').

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://imageshack.us/m/4/4313/shiptar.png

[The Journeyman]

The Serbs were your masters since the beginning of time.

[Labeat]

Says the guy who is trolling with this Iranian fairy tale. :D


You think that because you (organised serbian propaganda) make fairy tales then obviously all make fairy tales and are all liars like serbs, no idiot we dont need to lie, history show who are you,you Iranian tribe.

[Radojica]

By this your logic also we came from Scotland , read how was Scotland called ,and Spaniards came from Iberia too so dont ridicule yourself.

It's the legacy of Celts and as you well know, Celts were inhabitants of the Balkans... by this logic of yours, we have had amoebas in the beginning and then Siptars came :rolleyes:

[poiuytrewq0987]

You think that because you (organised serbian propaganda) make fairy tales then obviously all make fairy tales, and are all liars like serbs, no idiot we dont need to lie history show who are you,you Iranian tribe.

http://imageshack.us/m/4/4313/shiptar.png

[Ushtari]

http://imageshack.us/m/4/4313/shiptar.png
Why are you taking a text out of context, from the Book "Albanian identities: myth and history". There is no scholar who support that theory

Albanian is a indo-european language, simple as that.

[Labeat]

Why are you taking a text out of context, from the Book "Albanian identities: myth and history". There is no scholar who support that theory

Albanian is a indo-european language, simple as that.
Ahahah idiotism brother, idiotism:thumb001:, he is ridicule himself, and dont know how to lie.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Why are you taking a text out of context, from the Book "Albanian identities: myth and history". There is no scholar who support that theory

Albanian is a indo-european language, simple as that.


Ahahah idiotism brother, idiotism:thumb001:, he is ridicule himself, and dont know how to lie.

The theory is just as ridiculous as your Iranian theory. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time with trolls like Labeat. This is going to be my last post in thread.

[Monolith]

It's the legacy of Celts and as you well know, Celts were inhabitants of the Balkans... by this logic of yours, we have had amoebas in the beginning and then Siptars came :rolleyes:
Not necessarily. albho- is an IE root.

[bluesky]

even if the serbs were iranian like the theory that the croatians are iranian we are still white! the proto iranians like sarmatians and scythians were white the iranians and kurds were white once a long time ago they were of another iranian tribe but especially the kurds were mixed between the scythian,median and parthian tribes thats why we share some genetic similarities with iranians and kurds... u can still find white looking kurds and iranians in the middle east today but i doubt they are white the point is that we dont care of that f*cking theory. a theory is just a theory and we are still whites no mather if we are slavic iranian or illyrian...and it will remain that way!

[Labeat]

even if the serbs were iranian like the theory that the croatians are iranian we are still white! the proto iranians like sarmatians and scythians were white the iranians and kurds were white once a long time ago they were of another iranian tribe but especially the kurds were mixed between the scythian,median and parthian tribes thats why we share some genetic similarities with iranians and kurds... u can still find white looking kurds and iranians in the middle east today but i doubt they are white the point is that we dont care of that f*cking theory. a theory is just a theory and we are still whites no mather if we are slavic iranian or illyrian...and it will remain that way!

[Efim45]

Before we discuss who the Serbs are and if they are truly European, we must discuss who the muslims of Albania really are.

[Monolith]

even if the serbs were iranian like the theory that the croatians are iranian we are still white!
Chill out, this is not Stormfront. :D

[bluesky]

lol by white i mean europid

[Labeat]

Serbs are asiatic subhumans

[Efim45]

Serbs are asiatic subhumans
Serbs are culturally more European than you're ever gonna be.

[Labeat]

GTFO from our subforum.

[bluesky]

no serbs arent asiatic dont get started we know who the turks in europe are! and why did you make the letters fat and darker just because i said we shared some genetic similarities between kurds and iranians nothing new and nothing strange because they have also been europid once and everybody knows that the scythians and sarmatians were europid Herodotus
Herodotus wrote about an enormous city, Gelonus, in the northern part of Scythia[50]
The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and light hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs [Polytonic
Herodotus and other classical historians listed quite a number of tribes who lived near the Scythians, and presumably shared the same general milieu and nomadic steppe culture, often called "Scythian culture", even though scholars may have difficulties in determining their exact relationship to the "linguistic Scythians". A partial list of these tribes includes the Agathyrsi, Geloni, Budini, and Neuri.

[Panopticon]

http://imageshack.us/m/4/4313/shiptar.png

Indian speaking Scythians? Sounds a bit far away from reality, as for the word Shqip, it's most likely derived from "Shqiponje" meaning Eagle, or what I think is most likely the word "Shipoj" meaning understanding, which means that Shqiptar is a term used to describe people that speak a language that is intelligible which is similar to "Slav" which is supposed to come from "Slovo" meaning something similar.

As for the Serb-Sarmatian connection, there does seem to be connections between Iranian people and Slavs, linguistically and also genetically, both Iranian peoples and Slavs being similar genetically. The Scythians and Sarmatians were quite strongly R1a- it seems and it's actually quite strong in the people who now inhabit the former Scythian/Sarmatian areas who are mostly Turkic peoples. The Tocharians were also similar genetically according to what I've read.

[Efim45]

You are jew GTFO from our subforum you vermin.
Coming from the person who called Spaniards arabs when they are Christian, and Serbs sub-humans, when they are culturally more European than your ilk. :coffee:

[Mordid]

no serbs arent asiatic dont get started we know who the turks in europe are! and why did you make the letters fat and darker just because i said we shared some genetic similarities between kurds and iranians nothing new and nothing strange because they have also been europid once and everybody knows that the scythians and sarmatians were europid Herodotus
Herodotus wrote about an enormous city, Gelonus, in the northern part of Scythia[50]
The Budini are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and light hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs [Polytonic
Herodotus and other classical historians listed quite a number of tribes who lived near the Scythians, and presumably shared the same general milieu and nomadic steppe culture, often called "Scythian culture", even though scholars may have difficulties in determining their exact relationship to the "linguistic Scythians". A partial list of these tribes includes the Agathyrsi, Geloni, Budini, and Neuri.

Lol.

[Labeat]

Coming from the person who called Spaniards arabs when they are Christian, and Serbs sub-humans, when they are culturally more European than your ilk. :coffee:
Christianity does not make you white you bastard ? ooooooooooo an ordinary ignorant go in your church , in your synagogue and your mosque i dont care.

[Efim45]

Silly clown, being Christian doesn't make them European, their genetics do. But either way, being Christian makes them more European than you turklovers. You can sit there all you want saying you are Aryan, but remember that soon it'll be time to get on your knees and pray to Allah.

[bluesky]

Christianity does not make you white you bastard ? ooooooooooo an ordinary ignorant go in your church , in your synagogue and your mosque i dont care.

so? we serbs and croats are whiter than you will ever be period.

[Labeat]

so? we serbs and croats are whiter than you will ever be period.

Be proud of your Iraniano- Kurdo ancestry.

[Ushtari]

Indian speaking Scythians? Sounds a bit far away from reality, as for the word Shqip, it's most likely derived from "Shqiponje" meaning Eagle, or what I think is most likely the word "Shipoj" meaning understanding, which means that Shqiptar is a term used to describe people that speak a language that is intelligible which is similar to "Slav" which is supposed to come from "Slovo" meaning something similar.
He took that text completely out of context.

Here is the full text
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2825/fmnfail.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/fmnfail.jpg/)
http://books.google.com/books?id=oRASDq3rc-YC&lpg=PA5&dq=Albanians%20myths%20history&pg=PA74#v=onepage&q=caucasus&f=false

As for Tajinis little attempt, its really laughable.

[Monolith]

so? we serbs and croats are whiter than you will ever be period.
You want me to quote what I wrote earlier?

[Panopticon]

Labeat, pse e postove kta? Ma e mira asht mos me pas ket Rusi i invalid, s'muj me duru kta budallt. S'kan tru edhe s'asht mire me nguc ata qe jan mbrapanbetun me mend.