Why have children?

[Curtis24]

But seriously, why is our drive to have children so powerful? Now, you may say its because children can be enjoyed for their own sake. That may be true for some, but clearly at least some human men are prone to promiscuity and want children without having to raise them. So the desire for children exists apart from wanting to raise children.

I hate to bring a Sci-fi book into this, since it makes me look like an uber-nerd (which I am :P), but has anyone ever read the Dune sequels? Frank Herbert explores the idea that we may be able to somehow share the consciousness of our descendants after we are dead, continue experiencing life through them, etc. He sees this as having a biological basis, i.e. we actually perserve our consciousness and past memories in our DNA, and can once again become conscious, as long as our DNA lives on.

What do you all think?

[Wulfhere]

But seriously, why is our drive to have children so powerful? Now, you may say its because children can be enjoyed for their own sake. That may be true for some, but clearly at least some human men are prone to promiscuity want children without having to raise them. So the desire for children exists apart from wanting to raise children.

I hate to bring a Sci-fi book into this, since it makes me look like an uber-nerd (which I am :P), but has anyone ever read the Dune sequels? Frank Herbert explores the idea that we may be able to somehow share the consciousness of our descendants after we are dead, continue experiencing life through them, etc.

What do you all think?

It's a biological urge. Any species that didn't have it would die out very quickly, and therefore be de-selected in evolutionary terms.

[Rosenrot]

I want to have kids cause it sems that a life without then would be incomplete. I don't want to get older and becoming lonely old lady, without a family and stuff.

[Adalwolf]

Simple answer: To further one's family tree and blood line. Typically people want to see their legacy live on. Unless you're Hermann Goering's grandchildren, who all sterilized themselves out of utter shame. :D

[alexandra]

to carry on my legacy and bring another life into the world out of love. to experience the joys and character-building struggles of raising children. to watch them grow up and hopefully blossom into better people than i was and am. that is literally half you. it's pretty amazing.

[Troll's Puzzle]

part of my script tells me to eat an' stuff so I persist in being.
If it hadn't been written like that then I would have died, or someone 'before' me in my line would have died and I wouldn't have happened, so scripts which didn't have 'hunger = seek food' don't get passed on.
Similarly, scripts which don't code for 'make sweet, sweet lurrrrve and have kidz' wouldn't have got passed on.
For men, they can fuck around and have many kids and they may survive whether the man sees to it or not, so the script which says 'men, fuck around' increases in frequency because it gets passed on more often.
It's not quite the same for wimminz (although not as opposite as might be suspected) because the wimminz is vunerable when pregnant, vunerable during childbirth (v high risk before modern medicine!) and vunerable if she has to look after the baby after going through all that. So the 'breed' script has more cautious coding in our (superior) species ;)

my post is shitty. go read some biology especially sociobiology books,

[Wulfhere]

Simple answer: To further one's family tree and blood line. Typically people want to see their legacy live on. Unless you're Hermann Goering's grandchildren, who all sterilized themselves out of utter shame. :D

And Hitler's nephew's children, who have supposedly made a pact not to continue the bloodline (though have since denied it). And for those who don't know, Hitler's nephew was named William Patrick Hitler (born in Liverpool), but later changed his surname to Stuart-Houston after he moved to New York state. He died in 1987, but has three surviving sons, the eldest having the middle name of Adolf.

[Adalwolf]

And Hitler's nephew's children, who have supposedly made a pact not to continue the bloodline (though have since denied it). And for those who don't know, Hitler's nephew was named William Patrick Hitler (born in Liverpool), but later changed his surname to Stuart-Houston after he moved to New York state. He died in 1987, but has three surviving sons, the eldest having the middle name of Adolf.

I wonder what the Mossad thinks of all this...

[Wulfhere]

I wonder what the Mossad thinks of all this...

Not sure, but W.P. Hitler won a Purple Heart fighting for the Americans against Germany.

[Blossom]

Might sound selfish:

- Making love with your partner/husband without any...frontier and do not care about it, just doing it for love.
- Heritage and preserve your roots.
- Having someone to hold on difficult times you may get into.
- Another reason to show your partner how much love you feel, how secure you feel about the relationship/marriage, so you tranform all this love into a human being. Impressive, huh?
- Loving. If you'd be a sensitive one and you'd love to show your feelings..having kids would satisfy your needy feelings.
- Making kids its such a beautiful fact...having a kid, fruit of a love (past one/present one) its such a nice thing... :) IMO.

I will definetly have kids. Aye.

[Laubach]

because I love children! I believe it is the crowning achievement of a human being, can be a father. To continue his line, build a family, educate them. Know that you will love unconditionally

[Phil75231]

In the end, there’s no objective reason I can think of to have kids. If people have them to keep their family tree continuing n the long run, then humanity (or our descendant species, if any) will go extinct one day anyway – by the “heat death”/entropy of the universe, if by no other way. To me that cancels out the whole point of having kids. Why have a legacy if it's not going to last literally forever? Therefore, I can't see how “having a legacy” is a real reason to have kids - except on the unthinking, emotional, animalistic level.

It also makes no sense to say “I want kids because I want to give someone the gift of life”. To want to give life to someone implies they don’t have life YET, i.e. give something (life) to something that doesn’t exist (thei r children). Therefore, they won’t – no, can’t – miss out on living; for to “miss” something is to feel deprived. Because a non-existent person can’t feel at all, then the non-existent can’t miss anything. Therefore, the non-existent have no need for life.

So, I hate to say it, but the only reason to have children is simply because you want to. Selfish? Perhaps, depending on the motivation to have them (although a lot of child-free people refuse to have children for their own selfish reasons, too). Regardless of why you have them, whoever has them should have a strong spirit of self-sacrifice for their children.

In the end, you either believe there's a good reason to have children / continue the human species or you don't: It's as much a matter of faith as anything any religion asks us to believe.

[billErobreren]

no thank you I'll stick with a collie, maybe I'll give to sperm banks or something but I kid you not when I say I ain't the daddy type. maybe when the entire middle east suddenly spontaneously combusts or people quit this "no child left behind" bullcrap or something I may have one though not because I might want one

[Joe McCarthy]

I don't think the desire to have chldren is based solely in biology. I think there is a metaphysical element, and once a society loses confidence in itself and hope for the future the birthrate can be expected to tank, which naturally creates a need for more immigration to prop up our glorious welfare states.

[Efim45]

When I was little, I wanted to have at least 200 children. Then they would have 200 children each, and then, hopefully if they didn't race mix, I would do my part to contribute to the manpower of the white race.

[Oreka Bailoak]

When I was little, I wanted to have at least 200 children. Then they would have 200 children each, and then, hopefully if they didn't race mix, I would do my part to contribute to the manpower of the white race.

I like the way you think. You'd have....

40,000 Grandchildren!

8,000,000 Great-Grandchildren!

1,600,000,000 G-G-Grandchildren!!!!

So in 100 years like 10% of the world would be your kids!

[The Lawspeaker]

When I was little, I wanted to have at least 200 children. Then they would have 200 children each, and then, hopefully if they didn't race mix, I would do my part to contribute to the manpower of the white race.
So what happened to quality above quantity... ?

[Adalwolf]

When I was little, I wanted to have at least 200 children. Then they would have 200 children each, and then, hopefully if they didn't race mix, I would do my part to contribute to the manpower of the white race.

Genghis Khan wannabe! ;)

[Efim45]

So what happened to quality above quantity... ?
There's enough quality. Asians, Mexicans, and Africans are reproducing like cockroaches. Europeans should do the same. Although, after 200 kids, my penis would probably fall off.

[Jägerstaffel]

The world is overpopulated.

[Dario Argento]

There's enough quality. Asians, Mexicans, and Africans are reproducing like cockroaches. Europeans should do the same. Although, after 200 kids, my penis would probably fall off.

Most Africans are dying off AIDS or starving, as far as I know.

[Joe McCarthy]

The world is overpopulated.

Easy to say but with Europe and the West sporting a birthrate often no better than 2/3 of present population and the Third World continuing to grow in numbers and become more powerful economically, Europe and the West can expect to surrender its 500 year run of dominance and see its security imperiled, not to mention lack of bodies for infrastructure upkeep, pension upkeep, or even enough babies to avoid becoming nations of geriatrics with all of the security implications that implies.

[Jägerstaffel]

Easy to say but with Europe and the West sporting a birthrate often no better than 2/3 of present population and the Third World continuing to grow in numbers and become more powerful economically, Europe and the West can expect to surrender its 500 year run of dominance and see its security imperiled, not to mention lack of bodies for infrastructure upkeep, pension upkeep, or even enough babies to avoid becoming nations of geriatrics with all of the security implications that implies.

And a race to use up the natural resources the planet has to offer.

[Joe McCarthy]

And a race to use up the natural resources the planet has to offer.

I personally think overpopulation (or better stated in our case, underpopulation) has more of a security problem than ecological, though as we're not the ones overflowing the world with people I see little reason to feel a duty to roll over and die so the Third World can use resources.

[Jägerstaffel]

I just don't agree with the 'breed to equal the birthrate of the Third World' notion. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Phil75231]

So it's everyone should have fewer kids unless it's rich white thirdworlders.

Newsflash: The white "race" is not going to die off - any more than the "hearty Anglo-Saxon Stock" died of when lots of continental European immigrants came to the US between 170 and 100 years ago. In fact, a lot of those immigrants for whom English was not even their first language fit comfortably into the "White" paradigm today.

For those of you caught up in race, "mud people", and so forth, consider this: Even if Whites fall to only 5% of the world's population in the next 50 years, by that time there'll still be 450 million whites - assuming a population of 9 billion by that time, still more than the Middle East has today. Besides, I think a lower world population (given our overpopulation) is worth us sacrificing a bit of our percentages (as if i think that's relevant).

Give up a little (or even a fairly hefty amount) now -- you save yourself from losing everything in the long run.

[Joe McCarthy]

So it's everyone should have fewer kids unless it's rich white thirdworlders.

Newsflash: The white "race" is not going to die off - any more than the "hearty Anglo-Saxon Stock" died of when lots of continental European immigrants came to the US between 170 and 100 years ago. In fact, a lot of those immigrants for whom English was not even their first language fit comfortably into the "White" paradigm today.

I think the danger is very real, though now that you mention the Anglo population it has shrunk radically as a percentage of the US population and the cultural character of the country has changed from an essentially British culture to a European hodgepodge.

[Phil75231]

I think the danger is very real, though now that you mention the Anglo population it has shrunk radically as a percentage of the US population and the cultural character of the country has changed from an essentially British culture to a European hodgepodge.

Ultimately, who will dominate when is irrelevant. Thanks to the Second Law of Thermodynamics [1] the universe will eventually become uninhabitable anyway. So to quote John Maynard Keynes (albeit in a different context), "In the long run, we're all dead". All races, ethnicities, illegal immigrants and (if existing) extraterrestrials in their corner of the universe are all eventually doomed. So yes, Joe, non-whites will indeed all die off one day - as will all whites too.


[1] In simple language, it says the total amount of usable energy in the universe is declining.

The Universe - The Cosmic Apocalypse (from The History Channel). Yes, the presentation is sometimes cheesy - but the basics of the program do reflect essential scientific fact. The first 12:20 deals with other theories like "The Big Crunch", but after that deals with the prevailing favored theory, "The Big Freeze".

k2TnnXjTBNQ

[Joe McCarthy]

That we are all to die is no reason to commit suicide and as whites shrink in global population both our influence and safety will be lessened. Obviously no thinking white person welcomes such a thing unless he-she is ignorant a/o brainwashed.

[Phil75231]

That we are all to die is no reason to commit suicide and as whites shrink in global population both our influence and safety will be lessened. Obviously no thinking white person welcomes such a thing unless he-she is ignorant a/o brainwashed.

Who said anything about suicide? I'm not talking about putting guns to our head or (literally) drinking cyanide laced Kool-Aid. You want to reduce "third world" population - insist on them doing more to educate their women. That's consistently proved the best form of birth control there is. Besides, even the African birth rate is falling rapidly. Sounds like good news to me. Iran, Turkey, Latin America, and Asia is rapidly approaching European and North American birth rate levels. So it sounds like you're worries are a tempest in a teapot.

Still, Joe, in the very long run, what's the point?

[Joe McCarthy]

Third World birthrates will only fall to replacement levels after adding about two billion more people by 2050. Meanwhile, by that time countries like Germany will have a median age of about 50. How are all of these old Europeans going to defend themselves from the swarming masses of the Third World that insist on moving in, often in hordes of boat people from a burgeoning Africa across the Mediterranean? We face the end of Western Civilization itself and you call it a tempest in a teapot?!

[Boudica]

But seriously, why is our drive to have children so powerful?

Because it is one of the reasons why we are here. In my opinion "our" drive to have children could be a bit more powerful since we are minorities and "our" fertility rate is low.


but clearly at least some human men are prone to promiscuity and want children without having to raise them. So the desire for children exists apart from wanting to raise children.

Ah yes, men with the exact characteristics of a male lion, very charming. However in this world these king's of the jungle better be making a damn good income to pay child support for their many, many bastard cubs.


What do you all think?

If some men would rather act like male lions then evolved human beings, they ought to make damn sure to wrap it up before they mate.

[Brynhild]

My underlying urge could've been for keeping the family line and traditions alive but I knew I wanted children ever since I was a child. A house is not a home without them.

[Bloodeagle]

Although, after 200 kids, my penis would probably fall off.

If you mean that 200 tries will wear it out? I am living proof that this is not true. :p

[Blossom]

Holding that cute little thing on your arms...and watching how he/she'd move like a worm during first days...pft, I dont even see the question, just the answer.

How cant you just love those lovely things? Babies are angels. And if you raise them up with plenty of love and involving feelings, they'll still be angels, forever..at least to parents.

Having kids its a must. For Mother Europe.

*having a love-attack*

[Lucretius]

I think that the need of children in some people is due to some kind of immortality of lineage and blood,men know that the only thing that makes them eternal is a family with children,who,one day,will make the same thing as the forefathers and so on..however,nature give the possibility to be a mother to a woman but is not hers (nature) purpose.

[Debaser11]

Biological imperative. The closest we come to some form of immortality.

[Phil75231]

Because it is one of the reasons why we are here. In my opinion "our" drive to have children could be a bit more powerful since we are minorities and "our" fertility rate is low.

Ah yes, men with the exact characteristics of a male lion, very charming. However in this world these king's of the jungle better be making a damn good income to pay child support for their many, many bastard cubs.

If some men would rather act like male lions then evolved human beings, they ought to make damn sure to wrap it up before they mate.

What about woman's responsibility to use birth control? Leaving rape and incest aside, it's BOTH the man's and the woman's act that creates the child. Therefore, women have as much obligation to exercise self-restraint and proper precautions as men do.

[Black Sun Dimension]

(didnt read the thread)

If you dont have children you are a failure and a load that your mother should have swallowed.

The only way you could be saved is that if you managed to have an impact on this world, like finding the cure for cancer or something.

[Dario Argento]

Biological imperative. The closest we come to some form of immortality.

This.

[Curtis24]

Who said anything about suicide? I'm not talking about putting guns to our head or (literally) drinking cyanide laced Kool-Aid. You want to reduce "third world" population - insist on them doing more to educate their women. That's consistently proved the best form of birth control there is. Besides, even the African birth rate is falling rapidly. Sounds like good news to me. Iran, Turkey, Latin America, and Asia is rapidly approaching European and North American birth rate levels. So it sounds like you're worries are a tempest in a teapot.

Still, Joe, in the very long run, what's the point?

Educating women doesn't prevent birth control, rather, economic prosperity does - because it creates women's rights(not possible without economic prosperity), which in turn lowers birthrates. As it is, as long as the Third World remains poor, men have the power, and will force their women to do without birth control and have children.

Your list of countries also proves this - they are all rising economic powers(excepting Iran).

[Boudica]

What about woman's responsibility to use birth control? Leaving rape and incest aside, it's BOTH the man's and the woman's act that creates the child. Therefore, women have as much obligation to exercise self-restraint and proper precautions as men do.

Uh, wtf are you talking about? I agree, I never said anything about sexual restraint..? My point was, If a man is not ready to be a father, then don't help bring a child into this world. :confused:

[Curtis24]

Biological imperative. The closest we come to some form of immortality.

But why wish for immortality, if we won't be around to experience it?

[Curtis24]

Uh, wtf are you talking about? I agree, I never said anything about sexual restraint..? My point was, If a man is not ready to be a father, then don't help bring a child into this world. :confused:

But this misunderstands the problem. Women have no rights in Third World countries - therefore, men demand that they *don't* use birth control.

Also, and I don't want to go on a racist diatribe, but those with lower I.Q. seem to have serious problems using birth control, even when the option is available and there is intense education to do so. I point to the abortion rate of black women in America...

[askra]

because when i will be old and not more self-sufficient i will confide to the support of my sons, and i will not go to live in a squalid rest home

this is my (selfish) reason to procreate :p

[Curtis24]

because when i will be old and not more self-sufficient i will confide to the support of my sons, and i will not go to live in a squalid rest home

this is my (selfish) reason to procreate :p

Yeah, this is one practical reason. Old people without children get screwed by everybody.

[Gaztelu]

*What the fuck am I doing a presevationist site?*

It's simple: our homelands should not be populated by foreigners.

Do want our homelands populated by non-Europeans?

[Curtis24]

Oh no, I don't oppose having children. Since the impulse is so strong, it must be good. I'm just saying, why is it good? People say because babies are lovely little critters, etc., but why then do asocial, brutal men still want to go have sex with lots of women and make lots of babies, but not raise the babies?

There must be some intrinsic quality to having your bloodline continue, unrelated to the experience of raising children, which makes people want it so bad...

[Jägerstaffel]

Because raising children is more difficult than people initially imagine and people are fickle and lazy.

[Boudica]

But this misunderstands the problem. Women have no rights in Third World countries - therefore, men demand that they *don't* use birth control.

Also, and I don't want to go on a racist diatribe, but those with lower I.Q. seem to have serious problems using birth control, even when the option is available and there is intense education to do so. I point to the abortion rate of black women in America...

I still don't understand. I never said that using birth control was bad. I think that people, no matter which sex, should use protection if they are not ready to have a child, this has nothing to do with what I wrote.

edit: I don't really care about how arabs treat their women, this is beyond irrelevant as well..?

[Curtis24]

I still don't understand. I never said that using birth control was bad. I think that people, no matter which sex, should use protection if they are not ready to have a child, this has nothing to do with what I wrote.

edit: I don't really care about how arabs treat their women, this is beyond irrelevant as well..?

haha I meant to quote a different post other than yours :p I meant to quote the post that you were also quoting. this one:


Originally Posted by Phil75231
What about woman's responsibility to use birth control? Leaving rape and incest aside, it's BOTH the man's and the woman's act that creates the child. Therefore, women have as much obligation to exercise self-restraint and proper precautions as men do.

[Boudica]

haha I meant to quote a different post other than yours :p I meant to quote the post that you were also quoting. this one:

Lool o'h okay, I was like huh? :D

[Phil75231]

(didnt read the thread)

If you dont have children you are a failure and a load that your mother should have swallowed.

The only way you could be saved is that if you managed to have an impact on this world, like finding the cure for cancer or something.

So you're saying that self-supporting, honest people who simply do not want to have children are less deserving of respect (or perhaps even life) than freeloaders with six kids, one or two of whom will end up committing violent felonies?

:rolleyes: If You Say So :rolleyes:

Besides, why should people adhere to mainstream society's checklist of "things to do to get our respect"?

[Debaser11]

But why wish for immortality, if we won't be around to experience it?

What is more life-affirming, "yay-saying" than wishing for one's actions within their own life to transcend beyond it? Does such transcendence not add a more grounded, real and palpable value over something frivilous and relative along the lines of only living just "to be happy"?

The opposite of such life-affirming aims is nihilism. There is no in between whether we are consciously of aware of this or not.

[Boudica]

So you're saying that self-supporting, honest people who simply do not want to have children are less deserving of respect (or perhaps even life) than freeloaders with six kids, one or two of whom will end up committing violent felonies?

:rolleyes: If You Say So :rolleyes:

Besides, why should people adhere to mainstream society's checklist of "things to do to get our respect"?
:puke::bullet puke

Sounds like this is a very personal topic for you. Exactly who is talking about "freeloaders with six kids", and where do you get the idea that "one or two of whom will end up committing violent felonies"? People that decide to do one of the things that we are put here to do (reproduce/have a family) are freeloaders? And one or two of their children WILL end up committing violent felonies? Very interesting :coffee:

[Curtis24]

Any other ideas?