Albanians look more Greek or Montenegrin ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

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[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

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[Decius]

Greek.

[Ayetooey]

Greeks. Montenigs just Serbs with curly hair. Montenegrin gedmatches posted last few days also show that they are not "slavic speaking ghegs" like claimed, and are 100 times closer to Serbs.

[Dukagjini]

I think i look more Montenegrin, could be because I got some maternal montenegrin in me, down the line, but idk.

People think i look greek too.

[Pribislav]

Greeks, autosomal say that.

[Dukagjini]

As a whole, I would say Greeks.

[Ford]

Greeks. Montenigs just Serbs with curly hair. Montenegrin gedmatches posted last few days also show that they are not "slavic speaking ghegs" like claimed, and are 100 times closer to Serbs.

I think there are some of those too, although they're just a lot less numerous. I did manage to find a Montenegrin who is from a town close to Albania and he plots very south.

[Decius]

Montenegrins have no relations to siptars. They are noble serbs, genetic testing proves that.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think there are some of those too, although they're just a lot less numerous. I did manage to find a Montenegrin who is from a town close to Albania and he plots very south.

How south are we talking about ?

[Ayetooey]

I think there are some of those too, although they're just a lot less numerous. I did manage to find a Montenegrin who is from a town close to Albania and he plots very south.

A lot of the ones from the east have Albanian oral history and Albanian clan history, they are just Albanians who speak slavic tongue, so I can imagine some of them are close to Albos but they are minority overall.

[Decius]

I think there are some of those too, although they're just a lot less numerous. I did manage to find a Montenegrin who is from a town close to Albania and he plots very south.

Must be an outlier. The vast majority of montenegrins plot close to serbs from serbia.

[Dorian]

None,unless you start taking them apart individually,they have their own look.

[Pribislav]

Montegrins from Brda has some similarities with Malesor Albanians.

Other Montenegrins are quite far from any Albanian group.

[Ayetooey]

Montegrins from Brda has some similarities with Malesor Albanians.

Other Montenegrins are quite far any Albanian group.

I heard Plav is the most slavified part. Bosniaks and Montenegrins from that region are Albanians genetically.

[Dukagjini]

Montegrins from Brda has some similarities with Malesor Albanians.

Other Montenegrins are quite far from any Albanian group.

People say some malesor families mixed with montenegrins, but there still isn't enough genetic testing to prove this definitively.

[Ford]

How south are we talking about ?
Just below the Romanian dot on the k15 plot, although this may actually be normal? He's the most south plotting Montenegrin I've managed to find. I even managed to find one who has actual ancestry from Albania (although the ancestor was a Serb hajduk) and he's plotting north west of the Serbian dot.


A lot of the ones from the east have Albanian oral history and Albanian clan history, they are just Albanians who speak slavic tongue, so I can imagine some of them are close to Albos but they are minority overall.
Yes, makes sense. It’s normal to expect some assimilation from either part when living in close proximity.


Must be an outlier. The vast majority of montenegrins plot close to serbs from serbia.
Yes, probably.

[Pribislav]

I heard Plav is the most slavified part. Bosniaks and Montenegrins from that region are Albanians genetically.

In Plav and Gusinje municipalities E-V13 is almost 100% among Muslims. Plav and Gusinje are still not fully bosniakized as other parts of Sandžak (it's refers on Muslims). Smaller part of Gusinje and Plav Muslims still considers themselves for Albanians or they have double identity Albanian and Bosniak in same time.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Montenegrins in western balkan study were as north shifted as Belgrade Serbs, but significantly more Western. Kosovars were extremely western there, and lot closer to Montenegro than to Greeks

take a look
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure/image?size=inline&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g005

It's not that Montenegrins are south shifted, but Kosovars look radically more northern than Greeks.

[Ayetooey]

In Plav and Gusinje municipalities E-V13 is almost 100% among Muslims. Plav and Gusinje are still not fully bosniakized as other parts of Sandžak (it's refers on Muslims). Smaller part of Gusinje and Plav Muslims still considers themselves for Albanians or they have double identity Albanian and Bosniak in same time.

Interesting, I have also heard that Plav Sandzakians are still close to Albanians and not fully Bosniakized. Hopefully we will get gedmatch results eventually; will be interesting to compare to Pljevlja Muslim who plotted as Serb but slightly south-west shifted and r1b.

[Dukagjini]

I think Montenegrins are more southern shifted than Serbs.

[Ford]

I think Montenegrins are more southern shifted than Serbs.

You must have some Montenegrin dna relatives. Have you tried running any kits on gedmatch? Would be nice if you managed to find any.

[Sikeliot]

Greek.

Apart from Aegean islands which are closer to southern Italians, Albanians are the closest people to Greeks.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think Montenegrins are more southern shifted than Serbs.

Southern Serbs should be more southern shifted than Montenegrins I think. Those that speak Torlak dialects.

[CommonSense]

For the most part they have their own look, though of course many of them can lean closer to either of the two populations. There was an Albanian youth team posted here not too long ago and those guys definitely looked way more like us than like Greeks.

[Pribislav]

Interesting, I have also heard that Plav Sandzakians are still close to Albanians and not fully Bosniakized. Hopefully we will get gedmatch results eventually; will be interesting to compare to Pljevlja Muslim who plotted as Serb but slightly south-west shifted and r1b.

Novi Pazar Muslims
E-V13 - 65%
J2a - 10%
R1b - 10%
I2a1 10%
J2b -10%

Tutin Muslims
E-V13 - 38,1%
J2b - 28,57%
R1b - 19,05%
I2a1b - 4,76%
I1 - 4,76%
I2a2 - 4,76%

Sjenica Muslims
E-V13 - 40%
J2a - 20%
J2b - 20%
I2a1 - 20%

It's from Sandžakian dna project long time ago, but still show tendencies. I bealive situation is not much different now.

[Ayetooey]

Southern Serbs should be more southern shifted than Montenegrins I think. Those that speak Torlak dialects.

Torlakians as well as Vlach from Timok in East Serbia would likely be more south shifted; but results from these groups seem to be non-existant. Curious as to where "native" Kosovan Serbs plot; native meanings one who didn't come from recent Croatian migrations or Montenegrin colonialists.

[Ayetooey]

Novi Pazar Muslims
E-V13 - 65%
J2a - 10%
R1b - 10%
I2a1 10%
J2b -10%

Tutin Muslims
E-V13 - 38,1%
J2b - 28,57%
R1b - 19,05%
I2a1b - 4,76%
I1 - 4,76%
I2a2 - 4,76%

Sjenica Muslims
E-V13 - 40%
J2a - 20%
J2b - 20%
I2a1 - 20%

It's from Sandžakian dna project long time ago, but still show tendencies. I bealive situation is not much different now.

65% ev-13 is extreme. Results from western areas would likely be different though.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Torlakians as well as Vlach from Timok in East Serbia would likely be more south shifted; but results from these groups seem to be non-existant. Curious as to where "native" Kosovan Serbs plot; native meanings one who didn't come from recent Croatian migrations or Montenegrin colonialists.

I could ask Jana does she match some southeastern Serbs on 23andme, and to get their gedmatch. She appears to have ancestry from Pirot after all.

[CommonSense]

Novi Pazar Muslims
E-V13 - 65%
J2a - 10%
R1b - 10%
I2a1 10%
J2b -10%

Tutin Muslims
E-V13 - 38,1%
J2b - 28,57%
R1b - 19,05%
I2a1b - 4,76%
I1 - 4,76%
I2a2 - 4,76%

Sjenica Muslims
E-V13 - 40%
J2a - 20%
J2b - 20%
I2a1 - 20%

It's from Sandžakian dna project long time ago, but still show tendencies. I bealive situation is not much different now.

Y-DNA does not tell the whole story, that's what I was trying to tell Tschaikisten. That guy I posted has Albanian Y-DNA, even gets TheIllyrianWarrior as a close match, yet he's within the Serbian cluster on all calculators.

[Ayetooey]

I could ask Jana does she match some southeastern Serbs on 23andme, and to get their gedmatch. She appears to have ancestry from Pirot after all.

Does she actually have ancestry from Pirot or are you referring to 23andme? If I were to take 23andme regional analysis literally my father would be from Split and Primorje-Gorski Kotar. Jana also matches Sandzak funnily enough.

[CommonSense]

Torlakians as well as Vlach from Timok in East Serbia would likely be more south shifted; but results from these groups seem to be non-existant. Curious as to where "native" Kosovan Serbs plot; native meanings one who didn't come from recent Croatian migrations or Montenegrin colonialists.

I posted a guy whose paternal side is from the 'Torlakian area' and he has very Slavic-leaning results:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?268509-Origin-and-identity-of-the-Macedonian-people&p=5799991&viewfull=1#post5799991

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Does she actually have ancestry from Pirot or are you referring to 23andme? If I were to take 23andme regional analysis literally my father would be from Split and Primorje-Gorski Kotar. Jana also matches Sandzak funnily enough.

Idk but she wrote she gets Pirot followed by Raška. Looks like random matches, so it's prolly true. Many west Serbs didn't even get Serbia as match....I would say it's real in her case xD

[Pribislav]

...

[Pribislav]

Y-DNA does not tell the whole story, that's what I was trying to tell Tschaikisten. That guy I posted has Albanian Y-DNA, even gets TheIllyrianWarrior as a close match, yet he's within the Serbian cluster on all calculators.

I am pretty sure that in parts of Sandžak with high amount of Albanian paternal lines such as Tutin, Novi Pazar, Plav and Rožaje people are quite different from Serbs autosomally.
It's hard to me to bealive that Albanian settlers to Sandžak when arrived all took Serbian Muslim women and later their descendandts married only Serbian Muslim women until now.
Malesors which came to Sandžak arrived masively with families and livestock, and founded own villages in which Albanian language was spoken until 100 years ago or less.

[kleenex]

I would say Greeks since Albanians look more like Italians than Slavs.

[Dukagjini]

You must have some Montenegrin dna relatives. Have you tried running any kits on gedmatch? Would be nice if you managed to find any.

No mostly Albanians. My GEDmatch is not good anyway. I am on 23andme and there latest V5 chip is bad.

I match with some Serbs and Montenegrins on 23andme. But I think this is common, I've seen Albo's match with South slavs too.

[Ford]

No mostly Albanians. My GEDmatch is not good anyway. I am on 23andme and there latest V5 chip is bad.

I match with some Serbs and Montenegrins on 23andme. But I think this is common, I've seen Albo's match with South slavs too.

Yeah, I match with surprisingly many Kosovo (and some from Montenegro) Albanians for some reason on 23andme.

[Ayetooey]

Yeah, I match with surprisingly many Kosovo (and some from Montenegro) Albanians for some reason on 23andme.

All my ethnic Albanian matches are from Montenegro, apart from one guy from Medveđa.

[Dukagjini]

Yeah, I match with surprisingly many Kosovo (and some from Montenegro) Albanians for some reason on 23andme.

Same for me but opposite, in particular I match with a Serb from Bosnia, Bijeljina.

[Dukagjini]

All my ethnic Albanian matches are from Montenegro, apart from one guy from Medveđa.

I'm a Monte Alb. You know the tribal names eh?

[Ford]

Same for me but opposite, in particular I match with a Serb from Bosnia, Bijeljina.

Interesting, I'm originally from a village relatively close to Bijeljina. I've even got a relatively close match from Kosovo (predicted 3rd cousin, although the segments are pretty short so I don't know how real that is).

[Ayetooey]

I'm a Monte Alb. You know the tribal names eh?

I don't know their tribes but surnames include Djeka, Dedivanaj, Nicaj, there's one guy with surname Nikprelevic but is Albanian.

[Dukagjini]

I don't know their tribes but surnames include Djeka, Dedivanaj, Nicaj, there's one guy with surname Nikprelevic but is Albanian.

Thats what I meant by tribal names. Lots of Monte Albs have vic too.

[Dukagjini]

Interesting, I'm originally from a village relatively close to Bijeljina. I've even got a relatively close match from Kosovo (predicted 3rd cousin, although the segments are pretty short so I don't know how real that is).

The guy that I match is from Dvorovi. But same, not sure how true the distant cousin matches are.