Proto-Scythian aDNA results + map (NEW)

[Proto-Shaman]

A Proto-Scythian sample ARS026 from Mongolia.

mtDNA: C4a1a + 195
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a2a (R-Z2123) -> Karachay-Balkar cluster!
GedMatch kit number: Z841501
dating: 1126-898 BCE

From this study: Jeong et al. 2018
"Bronze Age population dynamics and the rise of dairy pastoralism on the eastern Eurasian steppe" (https://www.pnas.org/content/115/48/E11248)
link: https://www.pnas.org/content/115/48/E11248
https://i.imgur.com/xv5zxQm.png

Creator of the map is Sergey Kozlov, found in this Russian forum: http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,11376.90.html

Closest modern matches:

Bashkir-South 72,91 ---// Samples:22
Kazakh 70,34 ---// Samples:25
Shor 70,16 ---// Samples:8
Udmurt 68,22 ---// Samples:19
Tatar-Kazan 67,84 ---// Samples:26
Altaian 67,6 ---// Samples:22
Hakas 65,82 ---// Samples:13
Tatar-Ural 65,78 ---// Samples:26
Ket 65,56 ---// Samples:6
Mansi 65,48 ---// Samples:9
Russian-Ural-Siberia 64,98 ---// Samples:23
Selkup 64,64 ---// Samples:16
Mari 64,59 ---// Samples:20
Kyrgyz 64,45 ---// Samples:21
Tuvinian 64,25 ---// Samples:22
Russian-Volga-Sukhona 64,25 ---// Samples:19
Kalmyk 63,84 ---// Samples:17
Komi 63,76 ---// Samples:19
Bashkir-North 63,57 ---// Samples:5
Moksha 63,27 ---// Samples:9
Russian-HGDP 63,04 ---// Samples:25
Russian-Vyatka-Arsk 62,53 ---// Samples:21
Dolgan 62,47 ---// Samples:11
Belarusian 62,39 ---// Samples:30
Tatar-Mishar 62,12 ---// Samples:20
Hazara 61,83 ---// Samples:26
Balt 61,29 ---// Samples:23
Tatar-Lithuanian 61,18 ---// Samples:10
Russian-Pomor 60,81 ---// Samples:13
Buryat 60,76 ---// Samples:23
Finnish-East 60,64 ---// Samples:20
Chuvash 60,19 ---// Samples:27
Mongol 60,13 ---// Samples:14
Evenk 59,85 ---// Samples:27
Estonian 59,79 ---// Samples:27
Russian-South 59,31 ---// Samples:28
Russian-Center 59,22 ---// Samples:19
Saami 59,17 ---// Samples:16
Tatar-Crimean-Steppe 58,95 ---// Samples:4
Pamiri 58,73 ---// Samples:29
Nogay 58,66 ---// Samples:17
German 58,65 ---// Samples:30
Karelian 58,38 ---// Samples:19
Uzbek 58,25 ---// Samples:23
Nenets 58,13 ---// Samples:17
Finnish-West 57,84 ---// Samples:20
Veps 57,73 ---// Samples:15
Ukrainian-West 57,69 ---// Samples:22
Xibo 57,02 ---// Samples:9
Ukrainian-Poltava 56,92 ---// Samples:24
Poleshtchuk 56,6 ---// Samples:8
English 56,35 ---// Samples:34
Slovak 56,17 ---// Samples:15
Ukrainian-East 56,09 ---// Samples:17
Turkmen 55,95 ---// Samples:29
Naxi 55,81 ---// Samples:8
Chechen 55,56 ---// Samples:26
Irish-and-Scottish 55,47 ---// Samples:18
Polish 55,33 ---// Samples:25
Tu 55,3 ---// Samples:10
Cornish 55,26 ---// Samples:31
Uttar-Pradesh-HC 54,86 ---// Samples:15
Tadjik 54,78 ---// Samples:20
Uygur 54,76 ---// Samples:14
Burusho 54,41 ---// Samples:25
Swedish 54,31 ---// Samples:20
Kosovar 54,27 ---// Samples:13
Chukchi 54,16 ---// Samples:12
Russian-West 54,06 ---// Samples:30
Norwegian 53,99 ---// Samples:17
Mongola 53,71 ---// Samples:12
Kumyk 53,59 ---// Samples:18
Yakut 53,59 ---// Samples:25
Bulgarian 53,08 ---// Samples:31
Oroqen 52,92 ---// Samples:9
Nivh 52,88 ---// Samples:6
Croatian 52,77 ---// Samples:23
Gujarati 52,38 ---// Samples:24
Slovenian 52,38 ---// Samples:15
Bosnian 52,12 ---// Samples:14
Koryak 51,88 ---// Samples:17
Russian-Meshtchora 51,84 ---// Samples:6
Hungarian 51,7 ---// Samples:22
Lezgin 51,4 ---// Samples:22
Macedonian 51,31 ---// Samples:14
Serbian 51,14 ---// Samples:18
Balkarian 51,03 ---// Samples:25
Tuscan 50,82 ---// Samples:30
Erzya 50,54 ---// Samples:11
Romanian 49,72 ---// Samples:13
Even 49,68 ---// Samples:20
Kanjar 49,47 ---// Samples:8
Spanish 49,42 ---// Samples:34
Adygei 49,24 ---// Samples:17
Daur 49,24 ---// Samples:10
Yi 48,88 ---// Samples:10
Han-North 48,83 ---// Samples:10
Ossetian 48,72 ---// Samples:20
Basque 48,32 ---// Samples:20
Montenegrian 48,32 ---// Samples:14
Azerbaijani 48,31 ---// Samples:21
Sicilian 47,52 ---// Samples:20
Pathan 47,36 ---// Samples:26
Greek_Azov 47,2 ---// Samples:5
Sindhi 47,1 ---// Samples:24
Turkish 47,08 ---// Samples:25
Italian-South 46,82 ---// Samples:18
French 46,21 ---// Samples:27
Ashkenazi 45,94 ---// Samples:19
Burmese 45,85 ---// Samples:25
Tujia 45,73 ---// Samples:10
UAE 45,3 ---// Samples:14
Cypriot 45,17 ---// Samples:12
Miao 45,01 ---// Samples:10
Iranian 44,61 ---// Samples:20
Brahui 44,51 ---// Samples:25
Hezhen 44,39 ---// Samples:7
Kalash 44,29 ---// Samples:23
Maya 43,79 ---// Samples:21
Tatar-Crimean-Coast 43,79 ---// Samples:4
Japanese 43,72 ---// Samples:27
Greek 43,33 ---// Samples:18
Armenian-West 42,86 ---// Samples:25
Abkhazian 42,69 ---// Samples:23
Dai 42,61 ---// Samples:10
Sardinian 41,89 ---// Samples:27
Balochi 41,79 ---// Samples:24
Gagauz 41,78 ---// Samples:12
Nganassan 41,75 ---// Samples:14
Andhra-Pradesh 41,44 ---// Samples:14
Uttar-Pradesh 41,36 ---// Samples:22
Cambodian 41,17 ---// Samples:9
Viet 41,07 ---// Samples:18
Armenian-East 40,69 ---// Samples:30
Georgian 40,34 ---// Samples:28
Han 40,24 ---// Samples:33
Kol 39,97 ---// Samples:17
She 39,96 ---// Samples:10
Sephard 38,1 ---// Samples:19
Druze 37,95 ---// Samples:42
Makrani 37,55 ---// Samples:25
Palestinian 37,54 ---// Samples:45
Lahu 37,51 ---// Samples:8
Karnataka 37,22 ---// Samples:13
Syrian 36,12 ---// Samples:16
Bedouin 36,11 ---// Samples:45
Jordanian 35,63 ---// Samples:20
Tamil-Nadu 34,63 ---// Samples:19
Kurd 33,39 ---// Samples:6
Yemenite 33,09 ---// Samples:10
Munda 32,95 ---// Samples:20
Saud 32,89 ---// Samples:20
Tunisian 32,37 ---// Samples:12
Kerala 32,31 ---// Samples:10
Moroccan 32,12 ---// Samples:25
Karitiana 31,54 ---// Samples:13
Egyptian 26,87 ---// Samples:12
Melanesian 21,88 ---// Samples:7
Ethiopian 17,3 ---// Samples:19
Papuan 9,75 ---// Samples:16
BantuKenia 4,59 ---// Samples:11
Yoruba 3,23 ---// Samples:20

К27, К7, К36 components:

0.00% Nilotic-Omotic
2.39% Ancestral-South-Ind.
21.21% North-European-Balt.
10.33% Uralic
0.00% Australo-Melanesian
14.46% East-Siberian
0.66% Ancestral-Yayoi
0.00% Caucasian-Near-East.
13.27% Tibeto-Burman
0.43% Austronesian
0.00% Central-African-Pygm
0.04% Central-African-HG
0.00% Nilo-Saharian
0.00% North-African
12.46% Gedrosia-Caucasian
0.00% Cushitic
0.00% Congo-Pygmean
0.00% Bushmen
3.61% South-Meso-Amerind.
5.95% South-West-European
3.49% North-Amerindian
0.00% Arabic
3.33% North-Circumpolar
2.52% Kalash
1.59% Papuan-Australian
4.26% Baltic-Finnic
0.00% Bantu

25.01% ANE
3.69% ASE
29.78% WHG-UHG
34.29% East_Eurasian
0.23% West_African
1.39% East_African
5.61% ENF

6.68% Amerindian
0.00% Arabian
0.00% Armenian
0.00% Basque
0.00% Central_African
1.54% Central_Euro
0.00% East_African
0.80% East_Asian
0.02% East_Balkan
8.56% East_Central_Asian
4.28% East_Central_Euro
0.00% East_Med
6.04% Eastern_Euro
10.63% Fennoscandian
0.04% French
0.00% Iberian
1.90% Indo-Chinese
0.00% Italian
0.00% Malayan
0.00% Near_Eastern
0.00% North_African
5.22% North_Atlantic
2.27% North_Caucasian
10.96% North_Sea
0.00% Northeast_African
0.51% Oceanian
0.00% Omotic
0.00% Pygmy
23.37% Siberian
0.00% South_Asian
14.02% South_Central_Asian
1.05% South_Chinese
2.10% Volga-Ural
0.00% West_African
0.00% West_Caucasian
0.00% West_Med

Closest ancient matches: (all rights reserved, by Danismend)

1) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA385 @ 8,107176
2) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA100 @ 10,030619
3) Saka_Central_DA13 @ 10,077415
4) Scythian_Aldy_Bel_A10 @ 10,528638
5) Bashkir @ 10,96053
6) Karasuk @ 11,011368
7) Scythian_Aldy_Bel_A17 @ 11,177253
8) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA74 @ 12,282976
9) Xiongnu_DA38 @ 12,37718
10) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA65 @ 12,678623
11) Scythian_Pazyryk_Be9 @ 13,077074
12) Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_Ze6 @ 14,347163
13) Saka_Tian_Shan_DA56 @ 14,765843
14) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA101 @ 16,087256
15) Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IS2 @ 17,271072
16) Hun_Tian_Shan_DA85 @ 17,942356
17) Xiongnu_DA41 @ 18,132184
18) Karluk_DA222 @ 18,241096
19) Saka_Tian_Shan_DA47 @ 18,748534
20) Gokturk_DA228 @ 19,167283

[Crimson Winds]

Which part of the stepp does sample is from ?

[Proto-Shaman]

MDLP K16 Modern:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bashkir_Kildigulovo @ 10.254370
2 Bashkir_Muradymovo @ 10.606437
3 Bashkir_Ufa @ 11.037541
4 Bashkir_Ilbragimovo @ 11.879532
5 Bashkir_Akyar @ 11.932267
6 Bashkir_Bashkortostan @ 11.956866
7 Udmurd_Udmurtia @ 15.694634
8 Mari_Mari_El @ 16.409328
9 Forest_Yukaghir_Kolyma @ 17.113398
10 Shor_Kemerovo @ 18.297850
11 Hakas_Khakassia @ 18.766214
12 Lipka_Tatar_Belorus @ 19.761839
13 Tatars_Tatarstan @ 19.960342
14 Saami_Finnmark @ 20.369972
15 Chuvash_Chuvashia @ 20.841568
16 Turkmen_Shumanay @ 21.097605
17 Komi_Komi_Republic @ 21.430286
18 Karakalpak_Karakalpakstan @ 22.095615
19 Khanty_Khanty–Mansi @ 22.468637
20 Turkmen_Xojayli @ 22.535892

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Komi_Komi_Republic +50% Shor_Kemerovo @ 8.994561


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Bashkir_Kildigulovo +25% Tlingit_NA +25% Tubalar_(Altai) @ 4.584065

MDLP K23b:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bashkir_ @ 13.671241
2 Tatar-Siberian_ @ 14.948604
3 Turkmen_Afghan_ @ 20.315805
4 Uzbek_ @ 20.357229
5 Uygur-Han_ @ 20.750023
6 Tajik_Tajikistan_ @ 20.949202
7 Karakalpak_ @ 21.037107
8 Kazahs_ @ 22.154697
9 Chuvashs_ @ 22.446642
10 Crimean_Tatar_Step_ @ 22.738943
11 Uygur_ @ 22.880934
12 Udmurd_ @ 24.189981
13 Tatar_ @ 24.298927
14 Tatar_Lithuania_ @ 24.419533
15 Mari_ @ 24.910999
16 Turkmen_Uzbekistan_ @ 24.945440
17 Hazara_ @ 25.050236
18 Kazakh_ @ 25.446329
19 Chuvash_ @ 25.594006
20 Tatar-Kazan_ @ 26.162281

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Hazara_ +50% Saami_ @ 9.878033

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Hakas_ +25% Karelian_ +25% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan_ @ 8.627037

[Proto-Shaman]

Which part of the stepp does sample is from ?
Eastern steppe (Mongolia)

[Crimson Winds]

Turkic-Uralic mix.

[Leto]

Obviously not a 'proto-Scythian'. You are pushing your Turkic and Turanist agenda. This individual was like 40% mongoloid. About as white as the Gök Türük sample.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 33.23
2 Siberian 21.17
3 East_Asian 19.52
4 Gedrosia 15.14
5 Atlantic_Med 7.16
6 South_Asian 2.03
7 Southeast_Asian 1.24
8 Sub_Saharan 0.5

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Uzbeks (Behar) 22.22
2 Uygur (HGDP) 26.7
3 Hazara (HGDP) 27.34
4 Chuvashs (Behar) 27.49
5 Altai (Rasmussen) 33.51
6 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 34.19
7 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 37.41
8 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 40.74
9 Mongol (Rasmussen) 40.91
10 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 40.96
11 Russian (HGDP) 41.27
12 Hungarians (Behar) 41.62
13 German (Dodecad) 42.73
14 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 43.86
15 Romanians (Behar) 44.21
16 Russian (Dodecad) 44.43
17 Dutch (Dodecad) 44.55
18 Swedish (Dodecad) 44.61
19 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 44.71
20 Tuva (Rasmussen) 45.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.2% Hazara (HGDP) + 49.8% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 10.58
2 64.5% Hazara (HGDP) + 35.5% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 10.58
3 65.4% Hazara (HGDP) + 34.6% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 10.69
4 55.3% Altai (Rasmussen) + 44.7% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 10.78
5 57.7% Altai (Rasmussen) + 42.3% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 10.78
6 57.6% Altai (Rasmussen) + 42.4% Russian (Dodecad) @ 10.91
7 61.2% Altai (Rasmussen) + 38.8% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 11.04
8 62.2% Altai (Rasmussen) + 37.8% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 11.06
9 55.7% Altai (Rasmussen) + 44.3% Russian (HGDP) @ 11.21
10 58.7% Altai (Rasmussen) + 41.3% Polish (Dodecad) @ 11.23
11 58.1% Altai (Rasmussen) + 41.9% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 11.24
12 59.8% Altai (Rasmussen) + 40.2% Belorussian (Behar) @ 11.37
13 59.2% Altai (Rasmussen) + 40.8% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 11.47
14 60.1% Altai (Rasmussen) + 39.9% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 11.75
15 58.3% Altai (Rasmussen) + 41.7% Russian_B (Behar) @ 11.77
16 58.1% Altai (Rasmussen) + 41.9% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 11.79
17 58.3% Altai (Rasmussen) + 41.7% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 11.98
18 50.9% Uygur (HGDP) + 49.1% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 12.14
19 50.1% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 49.9% Mongol (Rasmussen) @ 12.37
20 61.8% Hazara (HGDP) + 38.2% Russian (HGDP) @ 12.51


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 30.84
2 Siberian 17.91
3 Baloch 15.8
4 NE-Asian 13.91
5 American 6.31
6 Beringian 5.78
7 Mediterranean 4.93
8 Caucasian 1.37
9 S-Indian 1.19
10 Papuan 1.11
11 W-African 0.48
12 SE-Asian 0.38

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 uzbek (behar) 22.88
2 chuvash (behar) 23.16
3 kazakh (harappa) 25.32
4 uyghur (hgdp) 26.45
5 hazara (hgdp) 27.61
6 kyrgyz (xing) 29.3
7 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 30.66
8 tajik (yunusbayev) 31.05
9 altaian (rasmussen) 31.76
10 nogai (yunusbayev) 34.91
11 mordovian (yunusbayev) 35.02
12 hungarian (behar) 36.38
13 turkmen (yunusbayev) 36.45
14 selkup (rasmussen) 36.56
15 slovenian (xing) 36.87
16 russian (hgdp) 36.95
17 romanian-a (behar) 37.31
18 ukranian (yunusbayev) 37.9
19 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 38.79
20 n-european (xing) 39.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.3% chuvash (behar) + 44.7% hazara (hgdp) @ 10.46
2 54.1% chuvash (behar) + 45.9% uyghur (hgdp) @ 10.83
3 52.9% chuvash (behar) + 47.1% kazakh (harappa) @ 11.33
4 58.7% chuvash (behar) + 41.3% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) @ 11.78
5 59.6% kazakh (harappa) + 40.4% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 12
6 61% kazakh (harappa) + 39% russian (hgdp) @ 12.01
7 52.8% altaian (rasmussen) + 47.2% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 12.08
8 50.4% uzbek (behar) + 49.6% chuvash (behar) @ 12.23
9 55.2% kyrgyz (xing) + 44.8% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 12.25
10 56.7% kyrgyz (xing) + 43.3% russian (hgdp) @ 12.34
11 66.5% kazakh (harappa) + 33.5% lithuanian (behar) @ 12.36
12 58.5% hazara (hgdp) + 41.5% russian (hgdp) @ 12.39
13 60% altaian (rasmussen) + 40% lithuanian (behar) @ 12.59
14 54.4% altaian (rasmussen) + 45.6% russian (hgdp) @ 12.66
15 55.1% altaian (rasmussen) + 44.9% ukranian (yunusbayev) @ 12.66
16 62.4% kyrgyz (xing) + 37.6% lithuanian (behar) @ 12.74
17 57.4% altaian (rasmussen) + 42.6% belorussian (behar) @ 12.76
18 53.9% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) + 46.1% mordovian (yunusbayev) @ 12.83
19 60.1% chuvash (behar) + 39.9% altaian (rasmussen) @ 12.85
20 55.5% kyrgyz (hodoglugil) + 44.5% russian (hgdp) @ 12.93

[Crimson Winds]

Scythian is not a clearly defined ethnonym but since this sample is located in ''Scythia'' so no problem using that word.

[Proto-Shaman]

Eurogenes K15:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Tatar @ 19.279459
2 Afghan_Turkmen @ 19.504276
3 Uzbeki @ 20.617527
4 Afghan_Hazara @ 23.029123
5 Uygur @ 23.616375
6 Shors @ 23.689121
7 Hazara @ 24.171581
8 Chuvash @ 25.133995
9 Hakas @ 26.537380
10 Mari @ 26.899902
11 Nogay @ 29.518576
12 East_Finnish @ 31.151104
13 Altaian @ 32.053253
14 Tadjik @ 32.801640
15 Afghan_Uzbeki @ 32.865181
16 Afghan_Tadjik @ 32.889328
17 Kargopol_Russian @ 32.959457
18 Finnish @ 33.269302
19 Erzya @ 33.804295
20 Moldavian @ 33.874161

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Finnish +50% Hakas @ 12.010271

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Shors +25% Swedish +25% Uzbeki @ 8.222796

Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Afghan_Hazara + Chukchi + Chuvash + Swedish @ 6.661330
2 Afghan_Hazara + Chukchi + Chuvash + North_Swedish @ 6.697355
3 Afghan_Hazara + Chukchi + Chuvash + Norwegian @ 6.802769
4 Chukchi + Chuvash + Hazara + Swedish @ 6.805154
5 Afghan_Hazara + Chukchi + Chuvash + West_Norwegian @ 6.818114
6 Chukchi + Chuvash + Hazara + West_Norwegian @ 6.856012
7 Chukchi + Chuvash + Hazara + Norwegian @ 6.918417
8 Afghan_Tadjik + Hakas + North_Swedish + West_Greenlander @ 6.999903
9 Chukchi + Chuvash + Swedish + Uygur @ 7.004512
10 Chukchi + Chuvash + Hazara + North_Swedish @ 7.005711
11 Afghan_Tadjik + North_Swedish + Shors + West_Greenlander @ 7.077232
12 Chukchi + Chuvash + North_Swedish + Uygur @ 7.081596
13 Hazara + Mari + Swedish + West_Greenlander @ 7.108346
14 Afghan_Uzbeki + Hakas + North_Swedish + West_Greenlander @ 7.113306
15 Afghan_Hazara + North_Swedish + Shors + West_Greenlander @ 7.120018
16 Chukchi + Chuvash + Norwegian + Uygur @ 7.120953
17 Hazara + Mari + West_Greenlander + West_Norwegian @ 7.124165
18 MA-1 + Nogay + North_Swedish + Oroqen @ 7.137330
19 Chukchi + Chuvash + Uygur + West_Norwegian @ 7.142199
20 Hakas + North_Swedish + Tadjik + West_Greenlander @ 7.144660

puntDNAL K12 Ancient:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Scythian_IA_I0247 @ 23.181112
2 Kostenki14_UP_SG @ 27.624016
3 MA1_SG @ 29.278578
4 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 @ 30.756672
5 Srubnaya_I0430 @ 33.353371
6 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 @ 33.361523
7 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104 @ 33.518703
8 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511 @ 33.834591
9 Yamnaya_Samara_I0231 @ 33.854820
10 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443 @ 33.885986
11 Potapovka_I0419 @ 34.225605
12 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 @ 34.334637
13 Srubnaya_I0232 @ 34.731747
14 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 @ 34.808762
15 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 @ 34.999512
16 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 @ 35.151451
17 Yamnaya_Kalmykia_SG_RISE552 @ 35.186169
18 Poltavka_I0440 @ 35.544952
19 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 @ 35.906315
20 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 @ 36.525673

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Scythian_IA_I0247 +50% Kostenki14_UP_SG @ 20.909929

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Scythian_IA_I0247 +25% Scythian_IA_I0247 +25% Ust_Ishim_DG @ 18.370047

puntDNAL K15:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bashkir @ 12.627924
2 Chuvash @ 25.662119
3 Uyghur @ 25.802563
4 Uzbek @ 26.402287
5 Hazara @ 27.451042
6 Nogai @ 34.902508
7 Turkmen @ 35.785240
8 Tadjik @ 36.415604
9 Bosnian @ 38.201988
10 Selkup @ 38.736141
11 Croatian @ 39.971554
12 Serbian @ 40.135342
13 Hungarian @ 40.198563
14 Macedonian @ 40.451061
15 Mexican @ 41.003990
16 Slovenian @ 41.252018
17 Karelian @ 41.690498
18 Mordovian @ 41.699238
19 Austrian @ 41.767155
20 Bulgarian @ 41.797066

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chuvash +50% Uyghur @ 9.091921

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Chuvash +25% Bashkir +25% Burmese @ 8.698667

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Chuvash + Bashkir + Bashkir + Burmese @ 8.696944
2 Chuvash + Chuvash + Bashkir + Burmese @ 8.698667
3 Lithuanian + Selkup + Tadjik + Cambodian @ 9.040080
4 Lithuanian + Bashkir + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.051076
5 Lithuanian + Bashkir + Uzbek + Mongolian @ 9.076528
6 Chuvash + Chuvash + Uyghur + Uyghur @ 9.091921
7 Lithuanian + Bashkir + Uyghur + Mongolian @ 9.102372
8 Belarusian + Chuvash + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.132809
9 Lithuanian + Chuvash + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.135606
10 Russian + Chuvash + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.160645
11 Karelian + Chuvash + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.189022
12 Russian + Chuvash + Uyghur + Mongolian @ 9.248740
13 Karelian + Chuvash + Uyghur + Mongolian @ 9.259892
14 Bashkir + Bashkir + Bashkir + Uyghur @ 9.269854
15 Belarusian + Chuvash + Uyghur + Mongolian @ 9.272172
16 Lithuanian + Chuvash + Uyghur + Mongolian @ 9.298481
17 Finnish + Chuvash + Hazara + Mongolian @ 9.309773
18 Lithuanian + Selkup + Tadjik + Filipino @ 9.323905
19 Chuvash + Chuvash + Uyghur + Hazara @ 9.336049
20 Lithuanian + Bashkir + Hazara + Koryak @ 9.341706

[Proto-Shaman]

Obviously not a 'proto-Scythian'. You are pushing your Turkic and Turanist agenda. This individual was like 40% mongoloid.
You have problem with reality.

[Cumansky]

These Mongol Pazyryks, not real Scythians from Ukraine

[Leto]

You have problem with reality.
To me it's you. Accept that they looked more like me than some Kazakhs. You deny the whiteness of the Indo-Iranians, so fuck you, son :cool: :p

[Proto-Shaman]

These Mongol Pazyryks, not real Scythians from Ukraine
Pazyryk in 1100 BCE. I am sure, this is a new finding of your propaganded brain?

[xripkan]

Proto-Scythians were Indo-Europeans with no mongolic or turkic admixture. This result is not Proto-Scythian.

[Cumansky]

Pazyryk in 1100 BCE. I am sure, this is a new finding of your propaganded brain?

Your not as much Scythian as me, deal with that

[Proto-Shaman]

To me it's you. Accept that they looked more like me than some Kazakhs. You deny the whiteness of the Indo-Iranians, so fuck you, son :cool: :p
Andronovo people were clearly Turkic. Indo-Iran propaganda doesn't work anymore. Go to another thread and annoy people there. You really have some reality problems with Scythians genetics.

[Crimson Winds]

Proto-Scythians were Indo-Europeans with no mongolic or turkic admixture. He is not Proto-Scythian.

So nobody in Eurasian Steppe is Scythian.

[Proto-Shaman]

Your not as much Scythian as me, deal with that
No problem. They still spoke Turkic.

[xripkan]

So nobody in Eurasian Steppe is Scythian.

They are not Proto-Scythian. They are mixed. The Scythians mixed with East Asian populations.

[Proto-Shaman]

They are not Proto-Scythian. They are mixed. The Scythians mixed with East Asian populations.
This sample is 100% Proto-Scythian. Why do you have problem with this?

[Arhat]

Proto-Scythians were Indo-Europeans with no mongolic or turkic admixture. This result is not Proto-Scythian.

The ancient ancestors of Scythians are ultimately from Sintashta and were 0% mongolid but Scythian culture envolved in Siberia and it seems that all scythian even most in Ukraine had some kind of Central Asian/Siberian admixture but this Pazyrk samples are extreme outliners. Most Scythians would cluster with Volga Finns because they were mostly europid with some Siberian influences. But most of their siberian/asian influences came from the maternal side and most of their y-dna was still R1a or R1b.

[Cumansky]

No problem. They still spoke Turkic.

Ok they speak Kipchak language, but Cumans are allied with them and they are barely Mongolic if at all Mongolic

[Proto-Shaman]

Proto-Scythians were Indo-Europeans with no mongolic or turkic admixture. This result is not Proto-Scythian.
Andronovans were Eastern Yamna Turkics with MLBA East component and WSHG. Western Yamna were Germanic. Look my signature for proof xD

This result is Proto-Scythian. There is a HUGE difference between Andronovo and Proto-Scythians.

[Proto-Shaman]

The ancient ancestors of Scythians which are ultimately from Sintashta and were 0% mongolid but Scythian culture envolved in Siberia and it seems that all scythian even most in Ukraine had some kind of Central Asian/Siberian admixture but this Pazyrk samples are extreme outliners. Most Scythians would cluster with Volga Finns because they were mostly europid with some Siberian influences. But most of their siberian/asian influences came from the maternal side and most of their y-dna was still R1a or R1b.
This doesn't change the fact they spoke Turkic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmF14fSHo6k

[Proto-Shaman]

Ok they speak Kipchak language, but Cumans are allied with them and they are barely Mongolic if at all Mongolic
Even part of Cimmerians came from Mongolia, if not all of them.

[Leto]

Then this guy Yaglakar is genetically Scythian
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?276493-Yaglakar-s-FTDNA-autosomal-results

[xripkan]

The ancient ancestors of Scythians are ultimately from Sintashta and were 0% mongolid but Scythian culture envolved in Siberia and it seems that all scythian even most in Ukraine had some kind of Central Asian/Siberian admixture but this Pazyrk samples are extreme outliners. Most Scythians would cluster with Volga Finns because they were mostly europid with some Siberian influences. But most of their siberian/asian influences came from the maternal side and most of their y-dna was still R1a or R1b.

I agree. This is what I am saying.

[xripkan]

This sample is 100% Proto-Scythian. Why do you have problem with this?

Because Proto-Scythians were Indo-Iranians. They mixed with Siberian populations since ancient times. Their haplogroups(Indo-Iranian paternal, Siberian maternal) prove that. This result is mixed.

[Proto-Shaman]

Because Proto-Scythians were Indo-Iranians. .... Their haplogroups(Indo-Iranian paternal, Siberian maternal) prove that.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:: rotfl::rotfl:

https://media.giphy.com/media/2Y8Iq3xe121Ba3hUAM/giphy.gif

[Proto-Shaman]

Then this guy Yaglakar is genetically Scythian
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?276493-Yaglakar-s-FTDNA-autosomal-results
You have to ask Sergey Kozlov for this. I am not a calculator specialist.

[xripkan]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:: rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::r otfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::ro tfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rot fl::rotfl:

Ok I just stop here. This is meaningless.

[Proto-Shaman]

---double-----

[Mingle]

Ok I just stop here. This is meaningless.

This guy also thinks that ancient Anatolians (Hittites, etc) and Etruscans were Turkic by the way.

[Mingle]

Ok they speak Kipchak language, but Cumans are allied with them and they are barely Mongolic if at all Mongolic

Nope, they didn't speak Kipchak/Turkic.

[Cumansky]

Nope, they didn't speak Kipchak/Turkic.

History of the Cumans

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVfZoglBHU

[Mingle]

History of the Cumans

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVfZoglBHU

Cumans were definitely Kipchak. I was talking about Scythians.

[Cumansky]

Cumans were definitely Kipchak. I was talking about Scythians.

Ok, all I said Cumans speak Kipchak

[Proto-Shaman]

This guy also thinks that ancient Anatolians (Hittites, etc) and Etruscans were Turkic by the way.
So you chose the most subhuman way of reacting to a „What can I do when I have no arguments“ scenario. Congratulations.

[Ryuk]

This gedmatch result probably belong an early Bulgaro-Turkic speaker.

But,Andronova culture(mostly) and Yamnaya culture were clearly IE.Both archeology and genetic prove that.

Origin of Bulgaro-Turkic people located in west siberian baraba steppe.They were probably members of Odinov,Krotov,Irmen and Sargat cultures.

[Proto-Shaman]

This gedmatch result probably belong an early Bulgaro-Turkic speaker.

But,Andronova culture(mostly) and Yamnaya culture were clearly IE.Both archeology and genetic prove that.
You are contradicting yourself. How can this sample belong to an early Bulgaro-Turkic speaker when the same Andronovo area was IE?
Your misinterpreted information comes from this page: The Proto-Turkic Urheimat & The Early Migrations of Turkic Peoples // Version 4.2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20131224111409/http://turkic-languages.scienceontheweb.net/Proto_Turkic_Urheimat.html)

I quote your own source:


“The theory of Indo-Iranian origins of Andronovians is poorly founded, and the arguments provided for it raise too many doubts. However, it may still hold a couple of appealing points, with some uncertainty still remaining. The main core of Andronovo corresponds to the Alakul culture in northern Kazakhstan, the location of the Alakul culture overlaps the calculated Proto-Bulgaro-Turkic area situated in the Tobol-Ishim-Irtysh demoregion by more than a half. [...] In any case, there is no reason to believe the Indo-Iranian hypothesis is in any way more appealing than the current proposal of the Bulgaro-Turkic identification. [...] the most western and most ancient parts of the early Andronovo, such as Sintashta-Petrovka, could still belong to the Indo-European stock, whereas the more eastern areas, such as Alakul, Fedorovo and possibly other settlements near the Irtysh could most likely be Bulgaro-Turkic in origin.”
https://i.imgur.com/nGjpiRc.jpg

Further below it says that Andronovans were clearly Bulgaro-Turkic speakers, indeed.

I love this video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLyNPpE_1uo)


Origin of Bulgaro-Turkic people located in west siberian baraba steppe.They were probably members of Odinov,Krotov,Irmen and Sargat cultures.
Finno-Ugric cultures. Nice try. There is overlapping with Sargatskis, that's all. Ask Hungarian anti-Turanist user blogen if you want. Only eastern exception is Karasuk, it was clearly Turkic of course.

[Token]

Multiway f4 statistics testing the relationships between Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya, Cimmerians, and Scythians revealed that both Scythians and Cimmerians formed a clade together with Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya to the exclusion of the other population and that Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya was closer to Scythians among the two (Fig. 3C and table S17). The results point to the presence of a deep shared ancestry of all Iron Age nomadic groups associated with Bronze Age populations of the steppe...
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

Scythians were nomadic and semi-nomadic people that ruled the Eurasian steppe during much of the first millennium BCE. While having been extensively studied by archaeology, very little is known about their genetic identity. To fill this gap, we analyzed ancient mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) from Scythians of the North Pontic Region (NPR) and successfully retrieved 19 whole mtDNA genomes. We have identified three potential mtDNA lineage ancestries of the NPR Scythians tracing back to hunter-gatherer and nomadic populations of east and west Eurasia as well as the Neolithic farming expansion into Europe. One third of all mt lineages in our dataset belonged to subdivisions of mt haplogroup U5. A comparison of NPR Scythian mtDNA linages with other contemporaneous Scythian groups, the Saka and the Pazyryks, reveals a common mtDNA package comprised of haplogroups H/H5, U5a, A, D/D4, and F1/F2. Of these, west Eurasian lineages show a downward cline in the west-east direction while east Eurasian haplogroups display the opposite trajectory. An overall similarity in mtDNA lineages of the NPR Scythians was found with the late Bronze Age Srubnaya population of the Northern Black Sea region which supports the archaeological hypothesis suggesting Srubnaya people as ancestors of the NPR Scythians.

An actual Proto-Scythian, Alakulskaya culture:

1 North_Sea 29.79
2 Eastern_Euro 22.74
3 Baltic 20.38
4 Atlantic 14.16
5 West_Asian 10.53
6 Amerindian 1.75

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Finnish @ 12.445115
2 East_Finnish @ 13.381126
3 Southwest_Finnish @ 13.980928
4 Estonian @ 14.982894
5 South_Polish @ 15.127893
6 Ukrainian @ 15.338021
7 Polish @ 15.649709
8 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 15.681773
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 16.402493
10 Southwest_Russian @ 16.423841
11 Kargopol_Russian @ 16.436531
12 North_Swedish @ 16.647802
13 Hungarian @ 17.518587
14 East_German @ 17.587965
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 17.792892
16 Belorussian @ 18.499500
17 Estonian_Polish @ 18.875706
18 Erzya @ 18.992065
19 Croatian @ 19.085678
20 Moldavian @ 19.184607

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Erzya +50% Swedish @ 9.907005


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Estonian +25% North_Swedish +25% Tabassaran @ 7.591847


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Estonian + Estonian + North_Swedish + Tabassaran @ 7.591847
2 Estonian + Estonian + Tabassaran + West_Norwegian @ 8.014234
3 Estonian + Estonian + Norwegian + Tabassaran @ 8.117579

[Blondie]

Andronovo people were clearly Turkic. Indo-Iran propaganda doesn't work anymore. Go to another thread and annoy people there. You really have some reality problems with Scythians genetics.

Andronovo peoples were iranic not turkic:

"The Andronovo culture is a collection of similar local Bronze Age cultures that flourished c. 2000–900 BC in western Siberia and the central Eurasian Steppe.[1] Some researchers have preferred to term it an archaeological complex or archaeological horizon.[2] The older Sintashta culture (2100–1800 BC), formerly included within the Andronovo culture, is now considered separately, but regarded as its predecessor, and accepted as part of the wider Andronovo horizon.

Most researchers associate the Andronovo horizon with early Indo-Iranian languages, though it may have overlapped the early Uralic-speaking area at its northern fringe.[3] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

Scythians were also Iranic:

"The Scythians (/ˈsɪθiən, ˈsɪð-/; from Greek Σκύθης, Σκύθοι), also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were Eurasian nomads, probably mostly using Eastern Iranian languages, who were mentioned by the literate peoples to their south as inhabiting large areas of the western and central Eurasian Steppe from about the 9th century BC up until the 4th century AD.[2][3][4][5] The "classical Scythians" known to ancient Greek historians, agreed to be mainly Iranian in origin, were located in the northern Black Sea and fore-Caucasus region. Other Scythian groups documented by Assyrian, Achaemenid and Chinese sources show that they also existed in Central Asia, where they were referred to as the Iskuzai/Askuzai, Saka (Old Persian: Sakā; New Persian/Pashto: ساکا‎; Sanskrit: शक Śaka; Greek: Σάκαι; Latin: Sacae), and Sai (Chinese: 塞; Old Chinese: *sˤək), respectively.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Scythian language:

"The Scythian languages (/ˈsɪθiən/ or /ˈsɪðiən/) are a group of Eastern Iranian languages of the classical and late antique period (the Middle Iranian period), spoken in a vast region of Eurasia named Scythia. Except for modern Ossetian, which descends from the Alanian variety, these languages are all considered to be extinct. Modern Eastern Iranian languages such as Wakhi, however, are related to the eastern Scytho-Khotanese dialects attested from the kingdoms of Khotan and Tumshuq in the ancient Tarim Basin, in present-day southern Xinjiang, China.
The location and extent of Scythia varied by time, but generally it encompassed the part of Eastern Europe east of the Vistula river and much of Central Asia up to the Tarim Basin. The dominant ethnic groups among the Scythians were nomadic pastoralists of Central Asia and the Pontic-Caspian steppe. Fragments of their speech known from inscriptions and words quoted in ancient authors as well as analysis of their names indicate that it was an Indo-European language, more specifically from the Iranian group of Indo-Iranian languages. Alexander Lubotsky summarizes the known linguistic landscape as follows:[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages

R1a-z93 is iranic not turkic:

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/indo-iranian-sintashta-uralic-migrations-1100x469.jpg

Iranic expansion:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1a_migration_map.jpg

"Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.

The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.

Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.

The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.

The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.

Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian

Don't steal.

[Token]

Andronovo people were clearly Turkic. Indo-Iran propaganda doesn't work anymore. Go to another thread and annoy people there. You really have some reality problems with Scythians genetics.

Ok, so this Andronovo guy was a Turk right? :laugh:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.41
2 Baltic 38.28
3 West_Asian 15.04
4 South_Asian 1.59
5 Amerindian 0.59
6 West_Med 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 12.86
2 Swedish 14.06
3 Southwest_Finnish 15.54
4 North_German 15.66
5 Norwegian 16.01
6 Danish 17.1
7 North_Dutch 17.51
8 East_German 18.09
9 Finnish 18.27
10 South_Polish 18.31
11 Polish 18.86
12 Austrian 19.06
13 Estonian 19.65
14 Irish 19.69
15 La_Brana-1 19.85
16 Hungarian 19.88
17 Orcadian 19.93
18 Ukrainian_Lviv 20.42
19 Russian_Smolensk 20.45
20 West_Scottish 20.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.9% North_Swedish + 15.1% Tabassaran @ 10.34
2 86.1% North_Swedish + 13.9% Lezgin @ 10.58
3 86.8% North_Swedish + 13.2% Chechen @ 10.84
4 90.3% North_Swedish + 9.7% Balochi @ 10.98
5 90.7% North_Swedish + 9.3% Brahui @ 11.06
6 89.7% North_Swedish + 10.3% Kalash @ 11.18
7 89.2% North_Swedish + 10.8% North_Ossetian @ 11.29
8 91.1% North_Swedish + 8.9% Makrani @ 11.33
9 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Afghan_Pashtun @ 11.33
10 89.3% North_Swedish + 10.7% Adygei @ 11.37
11 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Kabardin @ 11.46
12 90% North_Swedish + 10% Ossetian @ 11.48
13 91.6% North_Swedish + 8.4% Abhkasian @ 11.55
14 91.2% North_Swedish + 8.8% Georgian @ 11.56
15 89.6% North_Swedish + 10.4% Kumyk @ 11.61
16 90.1% North_Swedish + 9.9% Balkar @ 11.64
17 68.6% Swedish + 31.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.68
18 89.4% North_Swedish + 10.6% Tadjik @ 11.72
19 91.5% North_Swedish + 8.5% Pathan @ 11.72
20 61% Norwegian + 39% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.73

[Proto-Shaman]

Multiway f4 statistics testing the relationships between Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya, Cimmerians, and Scythians revealed that both Scythians and Cimmerians formed a clade together with Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya to the exclusion of the other population and that Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya was closer to Scythians among the two (Fig. 3C and table S17). The results point to the presence of a deep shared ancestry of all Iron Age nomadic groups associated with Bronze Age populations of the steppe...
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

Wow, which kit number has this sample? I always thought Srubnayas are more close to modern day Germanics. I have 4 Srubnaya in my archive.

[Token]

Wow, which kit number has this sample? I always thought Srubnayas are more close to modern day Germanics. I have 4 Srubnaya in my archive.

T610576

[Proto-Shaman]

Ok, so this Andronovo guy was a Turk right? :laugh:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.41
2 Baltic 38.28
3 West_Asian 15.04
4 South_Asian 1.59
5 Amerindian 0.59
6 West_Med 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 12.86
2 Swedish 14.06
3 Southwest_Finnish 15.54
4 North_German 15.66
5 Norwegian 16.01
6 Danish 17.1
7 North_Dutch 17.51
8 East_German 18.09
9 Finnish 18.27
10 South_Polish 18.31
11 Polish 18.86
12 Austrian 19.06
13 Estonian 19.65
14 Irish 19.69
15 La_Brana-1 19.85
16 Hungarian 19.88
17 Orcadian 19.93
18 Ukrainian_Lviv 20.42
19 Russian_Smolensk 20.45
20 West_Scottish 20.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.9% North_Swedish + 15.1% Tabassaran @ 10.34
2 86.1% North_Swedish + 13.9% Lezgin @ 10.58
3 86.8% North_Swedish + 13.2% Chechen @ 10.84
4 90.3% North_Swedish + 9.7% Balochi @ 10.98
5 90.7% North_Swedish + 9.3% Brahui @ 11.06
6 89.7% North_Swedish + 10.3% Kalash @ 11.18
7 89.2% North_Swedish + 10.8% North_Ossetian @ 11.29
8 91.1% North_Swedish + 8.9% Makrani @ 11.33
9 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Afghan_Pashtun @ 11.33
10 89.3% North_Swedish + 10.7% Adygei @ 11.37
11 89.1% North_Swedish + 10.9% Kabardin @ 11.46
12 90% North_Swedish + 10% Ossetian @ 11.48
13 91.6% North_Swedish + 8.4% Abhkasian @ 11.55
14 91.2% North_Swedish + 8.8% Georgian @ 11.56
15 89.6% North_Swedish + 10.4% Kumyk @ 11.61
16 90.1% North_Swedish + 9.9% Balkar @ 11.64
17 68.6% Swedish + 31.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.68
18 89.4% North_Swedish + 10.6% Tadjik @ 11.72
19 91.5% North_Swedish + 8.5% Pathan @ 11.72
20 61% Norwegian + 39% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 11.73

This guy was an Maykop German. Try another Andronovo guy:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Steppe 33.61
2 NorthEastEuropean 28.46
3 Neolithic 19.34
4 Caucasian 10.12
5 Indian 6.56
6 Arctic 0.91
7 Subsaharian 0.46
8 Amerindian 0.29
9 Siberian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 11.66
2 Icelandic (Iceland) 11.9
3 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 12.13
4 Norwegian (Norwegia) 12.52
5 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 13.86
6 English (Cornwall) 14.04
7 Irish (Munster) 14.07
8 Finn (EastFinland) 14.08
9 Finn (WestFinland) 14.19
10 Irish (Ireland) 14.22
11 Irish (Ulster) 14.25
12 Swede (Sweden) 14.26
13 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 14.48
14 Irish (Leinster) 14.57
15 Irish (Connacht) 14.69
16 Finn (Kuusamo) 14.69
17 Scottish (Highlands) 14.75
18 Ingrians (Ingermanland) 14.77
19 English (England) 14.8
20 Russian (CentralRussia) 14.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10.7% Tubalar ((Altai)) @ 10.4
2 90.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.4% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 10.66
3 91.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 8.8% Tubalar ((Altai)) @ 10.69
4 92.4% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 7.6% Brahmin (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.75
5 91.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 8.1% Burusho (Pakistan) @ 10.76
6 92.4% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 7.6% Vaish (Odisha) @ 10.78
7 91.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.4% Brahmin (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.79
8 89.8% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 10.2% Tubalar ((Altai)) @ 10.8
9 93.3% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6.7% GujaratiB (Gujarat) @ 10.8
10 90% Icelandic (Iceland) + 10% Jatt (Haryana) @ 10.8
11 93.7% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6.3% Scheduled_Caste (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.81
12 94% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6% Chamar (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.81
13 93.5% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6.5% Tharu (Nepal) @ 10.82
14 92.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 7.1% GujaratiA (Gujarat) @ 10.82
15 93.8% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6.2% Kol (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.82
16 91.7% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.3% Vaish (Odisha) @ 10.82
17 94.1% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 5.9% GujaratiC (Gujarat) @ 10.84
18 94.1% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 5.9% Hakkipikki (Karnataka) @ 10.85
19 94.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 5.8% Punjabi (Lahore) @ 10.85
20 93.6% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 6.4% Dharkar (Uttar_Pradesh) @ 10.85

[Token]

This guy was an Maykop German. Try another Andronovo guy:

Do you know the strange thing? I have run the same results just 5 min ago, and Tubalars suddenly vanished :)

Maykop German lmao, Maykop were basically Georgians.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278750-Maykop-the-arch-enemies-of-the-Proto-Indo-Europeans

[Proto-Shaman]

Maykop German lmao, Maykop were basically Georgians.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278750-Maykop-the-arch-enemies-of-the-Proto-Indo-Europeans

Tabassarans, Lezgins and Chechens belong to the Dagestani-Nakh language group, not Kartvelian.

[Ryuk]

You are contradicting yourself. How can this sample belong to an early Bulgaro-Turkic speaker when the same Andronovo area was IE?
Your misinterpreted information comes from this page: The Proto-Turkic Urheimat & The Early Migrations of Turkic Peoples // Version 4.2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20131224111409/http://turkic-languages.scienceontheweb.net/Proto_Turkic_Urheimat.html)

I quote your own source:


https://i.imgur.com/nGjpiRc.jpg

Further below it says that Andronovans were clearly Bulgaro-Turkic speakers, indeed.

I love this video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLyNPpE_1uo)


Finno-Ugric cultures. Nice try. There is overlapping with Sargatskis, that's all. Ask Hungarian anti-Turanist user blogen if you want. Only eastern exception is Karasuk, it was clearly Turkic of course.


My source doesn't say that all Andronovo cultures were "turkic."It only opposes the acceptance of cultures in western Siberia as Indo-Iranian because of its similar lifestyle and refuse the interpretation of all steppe cultures derived from a single origin.

Also,my shared articles were last updated in 2012.Most of the archaeological and genetic information about Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures in the Baraba steppes was published later this year.So this article focuses on andronova cultures rather than on Baraba cultures.

BTW,there is no evidence that Baraba cultures were Finno-ugric,on the contrary, Khanti and Mansi were still hunter gatherers before the Russians arrived, and many of the Hungarian terms related to agriculture and animal husbandry are borrowed from the Proto Oghuric language.Finno-Ugric peoples have no indigenous term for agriculture,animal husbandry and metal use.

On the other hand, the technical and geographical terms in the PBT language are fully compatible with Western Siberia.

You can check this https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?263326-Urheimat-and-migrations-of-turkic-people(against-both-turanist-and-steppist-theory)

[Ryuk]

Maykop German lmao, Maykop were basically Georgians.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278750-Maykop-the-arch-enemies-of-the-Proto-Indo-Europeans

No,Urheimat of kartvelian peoples were kolhis plain in West Georgia.They expanded from there to other parts of Caucasia at late bronze and early iron age.Proto kartvelian language shown a neolithic lifestyle,no metal,only known dog,cattle and goat,primitive agriculture and mostly swampy and water rich zone than mountainous.

Maykop clearly ancestral of Circassian peoples.Maykop seem more close to Georgians than Circassians in gedmatch because North Caucasian people mingled turkic and IE peoples more than kartvelians.

[Proto-Shaman]

On the other hand, the technical and geographical terms in the PBT language are fully compatible with Western Siberia.
Good point. Did you read Reich 2018 (preprint) already? Western_Siberian_Hunter_Gatherers (20% East Asian) were part of Steppe_EMBA and Steppe_MLBA populations in Eastern Europe, and penetrated far into Turkmenistan during Bronze Age.

Bronze Age Kazakhstan: 25% East Asian + 75% Steppe MLBA (1700-1500 BC) = R1a Z93

Steppe EMBA was R1b L23

direct Srubnaya Z93 lineages according to Damgaard 2018 btw:

4 Altaians, 2 Kirgizes, 2 Baschkirs, 2 Pamiris, 1 Teleut und 1 Uigur.

East Asian Cimmerian Q1 should also be keep in mind.

[Chelubey]

My source doesn't say that all Andronovo cultures were "turkic.
You are perhaps better acquainted with Turkic languages than Russian scholars-turkologists.
Evaluate the Turkic and Iranian etymologies of the Scithian word.
Saperdis (Σαπερδης) - a name for a type of fish in Scythia (Hesychius ).
Turkic etymology:
"Sapyrtys" literally means "something yellow, with yellow spots " , "Rutilus rutilus lacustris" - in some turkic languages.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rutilus+rutilus+lacustris&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp1t6yoM_gAhWiqIsKHbUBD3wQsAR6BAgBEAE&cshid=1550835746270063&biw=1280&bih=864
Iranian etymology:
The hypothetical construction "kapa + erd" ("fish +shining" ) (such fish is absent in Iranian languages, besides the grammatical construction "fish +shining" is also not correct in Iranian languages)

[Ryuk]

You are perhaps better acquainted with Turkic languages than Russian scholars-turkologists.
Evaluate the Turkic and Iranian etymologies of the Scithian word.
Saperdis (Σαπερδης) - a name for a type of fish in Scythia (Hesychius ).
Turkic etymology:
"Sapyrtys" literally means "something yellow, with yellow spots " , "Rutilus rutilus lacustris" - in some turkic languages.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Rutilus+rutilus+lacustris&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp1t6yoM_gAhWiqIsKHbUBD3wQsAR6BAgBEAE&cshid=1550835746270063&biw=1280&bih=864
Iranian etymology:
The hypothetical construction "kapa + erd" ("fish +shining" ) (such fish is absent in Iranian languages, besides the grammatical construction "fish +shining" is also not correct in Iranian languages)

I am unfamiliar such a word sapyrtys in any turkic language,and I couldn't find a suitable etimology for that word.

But you are right,this is impossible that the word sapirdis evolved from a kapa+erd derivetion.

There is no words like erd(to shining) or kapa(a kind of fish) in PIE,PII,or Proto iranian language,and satemization of k>s happened at pre or early proto indo -iranian era,not at proto iranian Era.

Both turkic and IE etymologies seem incorrect.

[Proto-Shaman]

Iranian etymology:
The hypothetical construction "kapa + erd" ("fish +shining" ) (such fish is absent in Iranian languages, besides the grammatical construction "fish +shining" is also not correct in Iranian languages)
These Iranians must have had many shining things: shiny horses, shiny shields, shiny fishes, shiny eggs. EVERY fucking shit is shining xD Otherwise I can't explain why Indo-European pseudo-etymologists want to make shiny every Scythian word :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

in PIE,PII,or Proto iranian language,and satemization of k>s happened at pre or early proto indo -iranian era,not at proto iranian Era.
In Turkic there is k>s and s>k, too. An s>k example: süt > höt.

[Ryuk]

In Turkic there is k>s and s>k, too. An s>k example: süt > höt.

İt is in baskhir language and a recent sound change

[Proto-Shaman]

İt is in baskhir language and a recent sound change
lol suck my balls

Dolgan huoq and Yakut suox

[Voskos]

Turns out Greeks are the least turkic of europeans, as i always claimed.

[Ryuk]

lol suck my balls

Dolgan huoq and Yakut suox

I explained süt>höt change.Yes,in yakut word initial s dropped and word medial s,z,š,č change to h,dolgan also has these changes plus S>h change.

(S is different from PBT s,in Oghuz this consonant evolved to word initial y other locations č,and other branches it evolved to ž,ś,č etc)

Also some northern Azeri dialects show k>s changes but this is marginal and recently.

[Antimatter]

Scythians are Iranian tribes, not Turkic..

[Proto-Shaman]

Scythians are Iranian tribes, not Turkic..
https://media-services.digital-rb.com/s3/live-productcatalogue/sys-master/images/hfb/h0d/8812405424158/015690.png

[Proto-Shaman]

I explained süt>höt change.Yes,in yakut word initial s dropped and word medial s,z,š,č change to h,dolgan also has these changes plus S>h change.

(S is different from PBT s,in Oghuz this consonant evolved to word initial y other locations č,and other branches it evolved to ž,ś,č etc)

Also some northern Azeri dialects show k>s changes but this is marginal and recently.
You've surpassed your limits. Why don't you start a career as a hobby linguist. I bet you'll get job immediately :picard1:

[Yaglakar]

Cumans were definitely Kipchak. I was talking about Scythians.


Ok, all I said Cumans speak Kipchak

Quman identity is subject of considerable debate. They could even have been Mongolic speaking or a large portion of them. Mongolic loanwords were making their way into Russian around the same period, that is in the pre-Mongol Empire era. Al-Marwazi says that Cumans were professing nestorian Christianity, which essentially means they used to live close to medieval Qocho Uighurs somewhere in western Mongolia or adjacent areas, and migrated west into Qipchaq and Qangli lands. It is funny when one says that Cumans spoke Qipchaq when there is no data whatsoever on either of these languages during that time period, and we don't even know what is a Qipchaq language (the real one not the modern family).

[Chelubey]

I am unfamiliar such a word sapyrtys in any turkic language.
This archaic word is not represented in dictionaries.

[Ryuk]

Quman identity is subject of considerable debate. They could even have been Mongolic speaking or a large portion of them. Mongolic loanwords were making their way into Russian around the same period, that is in the pre-Mongol Empire era. Al-Marwazi says that Cumans were professing nestorian Christianity, which essentially means they used to live close to medieval Qocho Uighurs somewhere in western Mongolia or adjacent areas, and migrated west into Qipchaq and Qangli lands. It is funny when one says that Cumans spoke Qipchaq when there is no data whatsoever on either of these languages during that time period, and we don't even know what is a Qipchaq language (the real one not the modern family).

There is codec cumanicus for cuman language examples


The Codex Cumanicus is a linguistic manual of the Middle Ages, designed to help Catholic missionaries communicate with the Cumans, a nomadic Turkic people. It is currently housed in the Library of St. Mark, in Venice (Cod. Mar. Lat. DXLIX).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Cumanicus&ved=2ahUKEwi_vZrf3s_gAhUH3xoKHcrsDxEQFjAQegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1ToKfUToH0KHYtnmp-LEMF&cshid=1550852331538


https://youtu.be/Qo_XXoLbg-8

[Yaglakar]

There is codec cumanicus for cuman language examples



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Cumanicus&ved=2ahUKEwi_vZrf3s_gAhUH3xoKHcrsDxEQFjAQegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1ToKfUToH0KHYtnmp-LEMF&cshid=1550852331538


https://youtu.be/Qo_XXoLbg-8

Did you read the Codex? The language depicted there is closer to Turkish than to Kazakh or Kyrgyz. Codex is a Mongol era document with numerous Mongolic loanwords. That language is an Oghuzo-Qipchaq (?) - Mongol creole. Not surprising, it was not written by Qipchaqs or Cumans, but by Venetians who just wrote and included anything and anyone they came in contact with and all the tribal configurations changed, molded and evolved with the Mongol conquests. Cuman or Qipchaq in that period is like Scythian, just an overarching term designating a whole lots of different people. The early Cumans that came from the east could have been Mongolic speaking, and adopted a "Qipchaq" language in Turkic majority areas to the west. They could also have been Turkic speaking, but they came from the east, and therefore original ones were not related to Qipchaqs.

[Chelubey]

You've surpassed your limits. Why don't you start a career as a hobby linguist. I bet you'll get job immediately :picard1:

He has clearly good language skills.
To Reuk:
I would recommend that you find scholarly works on the etymology of Scythian words. They are difficult to find in public domain. You will be absolutely shocked by their methodology. You are qualified enough to rate them.It is the apogee of antiscientific linguistics.

[Ryuk]

Did you read the Codex? The language depicted there is closer to Turkish than to Kazakh or Kyrgyz. Codex is a Mongol era document with numerous Mongolic loanwords. That language is an Oghuzo-Qipchaq (?) - Mongol creole. Not surprising, it was not written by Qipchaqs or Cumans, but by Venetians who just wrote and included anything and anyone they came in contact with and all the tribal configurations changed, molded and evolved with the Mongol conquests. Cuman or Qipchaq in that period is like Scythian, just an overarching term designating a whole lots of different people. The early Cumans that came from the east could have been Mongolic speaking, and adopted a "Qipchaq" language in Turkic majority areas to the west. They could also have been Turkic speaking, but they came from the east, and therefore original ones were not related to Qipchaqs.

The codec cumanicus was written between 1292-1295 century AD during early golden horde era,in crimean peninsula.

Also cuman language clearly a Kypchak language like Kazakh,Bashkir,Tatar.It spoken around Ukraine and crimea peninsula.It more related to Western kypchak languages.It was not a creole,its lemmas clearly from kypchak.


Cuman (Kuman) was a Kipchak Turkic language spoken by the Cumans (Polovtsy, Folban, Vallany, Kun) and Kipchaks; the language was similar to today's various languages of the Kipchak-Cuman branch. Cuman is documented in medieval works, including the Codex Cumanicus, and it was a literary language in the Central and Eastern Europe that left a rich literary inheritance. The language became the main language (lingua franca) of the Golden Horde.[1]

Also,most loanwords in the cuman language from persian,arabic(via persian),ındian(via pers),greek(via pers or slav),east slavic,some Latin/italian.Few mongolian loanwords exist and most of these are cultural terms.Also some Oghuz loanwords exist,mostly cultural or royal lemmas.

http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/paksoy-2/cam2.html

There is a good book about codex.You can translate it easily to uyghur.

https://www.academia.edu/1789480/Kodeks_Kumanikus_1a-55a_Giriş-Metin-Dizin_Codex_Cumanicus_1r-55r_Introduction-Text-Index_

[Proto-Shaman]

He has clearly good language skills.
Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakut_language#Phonology

[Leto]

I don't believe Cumans that lived in Southern Russia and Ukraine were racially like Mongolians and Altaians. I'd guess half East Eurasian at most.

[Antimatter]

Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakut_language#Phonology

Oh come on, you are L1b, one of us. You have no relation to the Turkics who came from the steppe some 1000 years ago. ;)

[Ryuk]

Not really: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakut_language#Phonology

What I said:


in yakut word initial s dropped and word medial s,z,š,č change to h,dolgan also has these changes plus S>h change dolgan also has these changes plus S>h change.

(S is different from PBT s,in Oghuz this consonant evolved to word initial y other locations č,and other branches it evolved to ž,ś,č etc)

What Wiki said:

Turkish Yakut Dolgan

uzun uhun

bïčak bïhax

kiši kihi

süt üüt

yürek sürek

yok suox huoq

So,where is my mistake?

[Yaglakar]

The codec cumanicus was written between 1292-1295 century AD during early golden horde era,in crimean peninsula.

Also cuman language clearly a Kypchak language like Kazakh,Bashkir,Tatar.It spoken around Ukraine and crimea peninsula.It more related to Western kypchak languages.It was not a creole,its lemmas clearly from kypchak.



Also,most loanwords in the cuman language from persian,arabic(via persian),ındian(via pers),greek(via pers or slav),east slavic,some Latin/italian.Few mongolian loanwords exist and most of these are cultural terms.Also some Oghuz loanwords exist,mostly cultural or royal lemmas.

http://vlib.iue.it/carrie/texts/carrie_books/paksoy-2/cam2.html

There is a good book about codex.You can translate it easily to uyghur.

https://www.academia.edu/1789480/Kodeks_Kumanikus_1a-55a_Giriş-Metin-Dizin_Codex_Cumanicus_1r-55r_Introduction-Text-Index_

No it is not "clearly" a Qipchaq language. First of all we do not know what is a Qipchaq language. All we have is data compiled by foreigners (Armenians, Arabo-Qipchaq dictionaries etc) who dubbed people living to the north as "Qipchaqs", many centuries earlier they dubbed everyone in the same area as "Scythian". The language in Codex is clearly mixed, it is not what Qipchaqs or Cumans spoke centuries earlier. It is a late document.

This is not a "Qipchaq" language:

Uzun аγаč bašïnda
urγuvul atlï quš olturur;
anï atma är kerek,
eki učuna > yüreginä taš kerek.

Yazda yavlï toqmaq yatïr.

Burunsïz buz tešer.

Altun ayïrγan tura tüšer,
al torχam yayïlï tüšer.

Teŋridän tüškän toqmačïq –
dört ayaqlï maymačïq.

Looks like some form of old Turkic and old Turkic is not related to modern "Qipchaq" languages.

[Chelubey]

I don't believe Cumans that lived in Southern Russia and Ukraine were racially like Mongolians and Altaians. I'd guess half East Eurasian at most.
It is interesting to me why Kazakhs and Uigurs have so much Western Eurasian ancestry (50-60%) if they were originally Mongoloids.
Here are the Jews after about 2,000 years of living in China.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/chinese-authorities-crack-down-on-tiny-jewish-community/
As i understand it, they are not fake jews, they really have far jew ancestors.
They were originally Caucasoid, and now they perhaps have less Western-Eurasian ancestry than Uighurs.

[Bornoz]

No it is not "clearly" a Qipchaq language. First of all we do not know what is a Qipchaq language. All we have is data compiled by foreigners (Armenians, Arabo-Qipchaq dictionaries etc) who dubbed people living to the north as "Qipchaqs", many centuries earlier they dubbed everyone in the same area as "Scythian". The language in Codex is clearly mixed, it is not what Qipchaqs or Cumans spoke centuries earlier. It is a late document.

This is not a "Qipchaq" language:

Uzun аγаč bašïnda
urγuvul atlï quš olturur;
anï atma är kerek,
eki učuna > yüreginä taš kerek.

Yazda yavlï toqmaq yatïr.

Burunsïz buz tešer.

Altun ayïrγan tura tüšer,
al torχam yayïlï tüšer.

Teŋridän tüškän toqmačïq –
dört ayaqlï maymačïq.

Looks like some form of old Turkic and old Turkic is not related to modern "Qipchaq" languages.

Bu yazılanları anlayabiliyor olmam garip mi?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

How people just can't realize that Scythians were Proto-Iranic people?

See the hydronyms in Ukraine steppe: Dnieper (slavicized from Iranic "Don-epr"), Dniester (slavicized from Iranic "Don-estr").... etc.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Scythians were mostly R1b, not R1a. Didn't expect that tbh but it's awesome.

[Yaglakar]

Bu yazılanları anlayabiliyor olmam garip mi?

çünkü kodeks kumanikus Old Turkic>Middle Turkic/Qocho Uighur/Turkmen>Oghuzo-Karluk

[Chelubey]

How people just can't realize that Scythians were Proto-Iranic people?

See the hydronyms in Ukraine steppe: Dnieper (slavicized from Iranic "Don-epr"), Dniester (slavicized from Iranic "Don-estr").... etc.
This contradicts the grammar of all living and dead Iranian languages (as well as Indo-Arian and Ossetian ones).
It must be "Epr-don" and "Estr-don". This hypothetical non-standard construction is based just on etymologies of Scythian words (сircular reference).

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Scythians were mostly R1b, not R1a. Didn't expect that tbh but it's awesome.

Scythians were R1a-Z93.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

This contradicts the grammar of all living and dead Iranian languages (as well as Indo-Iranian and Ossetian ones).
It must be "Epr-don" and "Estr-don".

Maybe, my bad. Essential point is that those hydronyms (where Scythians lived) are of Iranian origin.

[Leto]

It is interesting to me why Kazakhs and Uigurs have so much Western Eurasian ancestry (50-60%) if they were originally Mongoloids.
Here are the Jews after about 2,000 years of living in China.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/chinese-authorities-crack-down-on-tiny-jewish-community/
As i understand it, they are not fake jews, they really have far jew ancestors.
They were originally Caucasoid, and now they perhaps have less Western-Eurasian ancestry than Uighurs.
I don't know about the Chinese Jews but Kazakhs are not 50-60% West Eurasian. Around 35-40% only.

[Ryuk]

No it is not "clearly" a Qipchaq language. First of all we do not know what is a Qipchaq language. All we have is data compiled by foreigners (Armenians, Arabo-Qipchaq dictionaries etc) who dubbed people living to the north as "Qipchaqs", many centuries earlier they dubbed everyone in the same area as "Scythian". The language in Codex is clearly mixed, it is not what Qipchaqs or Cumans spoke centuries earlier. It is a late document.

This is not a "Qipchaq" language:

Uzun аγаč bašïnda
urγuvul atlï quš olturur;
anï atma är kerek,
eki učuna > yüreginä taš kerek.

Yazda yavlï toqmaq yatïr.

Burunsïz buz tešer.

Altun ayïrγan tura tüšer,
al torχam yayïlï tüšer.

Teŋridän tüškän toqmačïq –
dört ayaqlï maymačïq.

Looks like some form of old Turkic and old Turkic is not related to modern "Qipchaq" languages.

Old Turkic(actually old Oghuz) very conservative languuage,so it has original terms and grammatical feathures.Because of that old turkic tongues looks old Turkic.Also qypchak branch and later Oghuz languages share some sound changes but not all changes.

D to y

word initial and medial b to v

word final G to none

Also Western kypcak languages has ž>y evolution on word begining like oghuz.

These reasons looks like cuman a Oghuz language,but in fact isoglosses and vocabulary show clear qypchak origin.


Also the name "kypchak" just a classification term.The thing we know is Kazakh,kyrgyz,bashkirs,tatar and caucasus turkic languages share a common ancestor.
It is believed that this ancestral tongue is the language of the Qypchaks,so if you do not accept the term "Kipchak", you can choose another name

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Old Turkic(actually old Oghuz) very conservative languuage,so it has original terms and grammatical feathures.Because of that old turkic tongues looks old Turkic.Also qypchak branch and later Oghuz languages share some sound changes but not all changes.

D to y

word initial and medial b to v

word final G to none

Also Western kypcak languages has ž>y evolution on word begining like oghuz.

These reasons looks like cuman a Oghuz language,but in fact isoglosses and vocabulary show clear qypchak origin.


Also the name "kypchak" just a classification term.The thing we know is Kazakh,kyrgyz,bashkirs,tatar and caucasus turkic languages share a common ancestor.
It is believed that this ancestral tongue is the language of the Qypchaks,so if you do not accept the term "Kipchak", you can choose another name

Why "Old Oghuz", it's the same way classifying languages as Old Church Slavonic = Old Bulgarian. And it was not like that.

[Chelubey]

Maybe, my bad. Essential point is that those hydronyms (where Scythians lived) are of Iranian origin.
??? I have already explained that they cannot be explained normally through the Iranian language. Perhaps they are of Celtic origin

[Vlatko Vukovic]

??? I have already explained that they cannot be explained normally through the Iranian language. Perhaps they are of Celtic origin

Why then every linguist of world classify these hydronyms as Iranic? Celts didn't live on the area of Ukrainian steppe.

[Ryuk]

çünkü kodeks kumanikus Old Turkic>Middle Turkic/Qocho Uighur/Turkmen>Oghuzo-Karluk


No turkologist is defending this kind of bullshit,don't make it up your ass.

Your ignorance about Turkic languages annoys me,You don't even know the basic knowladge and you don't read the articles I sent you.

https://www.academia.edu/1789480/Kodeks_Kumanikus_1a-55a_Giri%C5%9F-Metin-Dizin_Codex_Cumanicus_1r-55r_Introduction-Text-Index_

Read this and then argue with me

[Ryuk]

Why "Old Oghuz", it's the same way classifying languages as Old Church Slavonic = Old Bulgarian. And it was not like that.

Old Oghuz like lithunainan.Conservative but not same as Proto language and do not ancestor of other branches.

[Yaglakar]

Old Turkic(actually old Oghuz) very conservative languuage,so it has original terms and grammatical feathures.Because of that old turkic tongues looks old Turkic.Also qypchak branch and later Oghuz languages share some sound changes but not all changes.

D to y

word initial and medial b to v

word final G to none

Also Western kypcak languages has ž>y evolution on word begining like oghuz.

These reasons looks like cuman a Oghuz language,but in fact isoglosses and vocabulary show clear qypchak origin.


Also the name "kypchak" just a classification term.The thing we know is Kazakh,kyrgyz,bashkirs,tatar and caucasus turkic languages share a common ancestor.
It is believed that this ancestral tongue is the language of the Qypchaks,so if you do not accept the term "Kipchak", you can choose another name

It depends on what kind of "Qipchaqs" you are talking about, the time frame is important, they evolved and changed. The original Qipchaqs that is the actual volk/el lived in Mongolia or its vicinity. Qipchaps were historically connected to "misfortune", that some sort of calamity constantly strikes them, and phrases like "az Qipchaq" came to be. Then they were kicked out by the Oghuz tribes (not to be confused with modern Oghuz language family denomination) and Kokturks. They migrated west and mixed with Indo-Europeans in the Kazakh steppes and beyond, hence we find blond Qipchaps in documents later on.

I guess one could say that Old Turkic is an Oghuz tongue, but essentially a dead language with no modern direct descendants. But yet again confusion settles in just like with Qipchaps where you mix modern scientific constructs with old ethnonyms and languages.

[Yaglakar]

No turkologist is defending this kind of bullshit,don't make it up your ass.

Your ignorance about Turkic languages annoys me,You don't even know the basic knowladge and you don't read the articles I sent you.

https://www.academia.edu/1789480/Kodeks_Kumanikus_1a-55a_Giri%C5%9F-Metin-Dizin_Codex_Cumanicus_1r-55r_Introduction-Text-Index_

Read this and then argue with me

Are you Bori? Nah, I think too gentle for Bori.

[Chelubey]

Why then every linguist of world classify these hydronyms as Iranic? Celts didn't live on the area of Ukrainian steppe.
This is a big topic : why Humanitarian sciences are often wrong.
One Russian publicist, an apologist of exact sciences, described this phenomenon as follows: “ You know, if physicists and chemists start to make mistakes, then airplanes and missiles would not fly, nuclear power plants would not work, and phones would not ring.
But if historians and linguists or archaeologists are wrong, then ... planes and rockets still fly, nuclear power plants still work, and phones still ring."
Humanitarian scientists just do not have large incentives for correct answers, since their mistakes or correct answer do not affect real life.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Old Oghuz like lithunainan.Conservative but not same as Proto language and do not ancestor of other branches.

Proto-Balto-Slavic can't be compared with Turkic in this sense, since proto-Balto-Slavic was not monolithic languge in any stage of it development.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Scythians were R1a-Z93.

No, almost all of them were R1b.

https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/iranian-nomadic-tribes-also-show-steppe-nomadic-pastoralist-y-dna-bottlenecks-and-r1b-l23/

[Proto-Shaman]

Oh come on, you are L1b, one of us. You have no relation to the Turkics who came from the steppe some 1000 years ago. ;)
Lol, I am a Hunnic warlord according to Wikipedia ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#Central_Asia
https://i.imgur.com/VWhEJxY.png
https://i.imgur.com/TBG71vR.png

[Proto-Shaman]

https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/iranian-nomadic-tribes-also-show-steppe-nomadic-pastoralist-y-dna-bottlenecks-and-r1b-l23/

this website suffers from OWD, definitely, where the fuk are early Iranians here? xD

https://i.imgur.com/m3AymzX.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

this website suffers from OWD, definitely, where the fuk are early Iranians here? xD

https://i.imgur.com/m3AymzX.png

They are just Turkicized, but blood remained.

[Proto-Shaman]

So,where is my mistake?
That there is no recent change.

[Proto-Shaman]

How people just can't realize that Scythians were Proto-Iranic people?

See the hydronyms in Ukraine steppe: Dnieper (slavicized from Iranic "Don-epr"), Dniester (slavicized from Iranic "Don-estr").... etc.
Turkic: DENiz (sea)
Turkic: DON (frozen water)-> like in Ukraine.
Turkic: TENri (blue heaven, God)

nice try.

[Proto-Shaman]

This contradicts the grammar of all living and dead Iranian languages (as well as Indo-Arian and Ossetian ones).
It must be "Epr-don" and "Estr-don". This hypothetical non-standard construction is based just on etymologies of Scythian words (сircular reference).
Thats why there must have been these original Turkic forms:

Danu-astur. Danu-apar. Mark Hubey, American computational linguist said this.

[Proto-Shaman]

Scythians were R1a-Z93.
Not only, but also N, R1b, J2a, J1, Q1. Perhaps I even forgot some.

[Proto-Shaman]

They are just Turkicized, but blood remained.
Nice opinion. But where are the Iranians?

[Token]

I decided to test some models on Iron Age nomads and i'm blaffed. Scythians from Samara and Sarmatians as far east as the Urals are as much steppe/Yamnaya as the Bronze Age Corded Ware culture, LOL.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

No, almost all of them were R1b.

https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/iranian-nomadic-tribes-also-show-steppe-nomadic-pastoralist-y-dna-bottlenecks-and-r1b-l23/

Iranian peoples (speakers) were obviously R1a-Z93. R1b is alient to Indo-Iranians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Iranian peoples (speakers) were obviously R1a-Z93. R1b is alient to Indo-Iranians.

Are you trolling me dude ? All Schyntian samples were R1b and most of Sarmatians. Yamnanya was R1b, looks like R1a was just secondary PIE marker.
You have it black on white, I posted samples from latest research. No your beloved R1a among these sampled Schyntians.

Deal with facts.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/scythian-cimmerian-sarmatian-y-dna-mtdna.png

:cry2:cry2:cry2

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Are you trolling me dude ? All Schyntian samples were R1b and most of Sarmatians. Yamnanya was R1b, looks like R1a was just secondary PIE marker.
You have it black on white, I posted samples from latest research. No your beloved R1a among these sampled Schyntians.

Deal with facts.

Ancient Y-DNA data was finally provided by Keyser et al in 2009. They studied the haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area in Siberia dated from between the middle of the 2nd millennium BC and the 4th century AD (Scythian and Sarmatian timeframe). Nearly all subjects belonged to haplogroup R-M17. The authors suggest that their data shows that between the Bronze and the Iron Ages the constellation of populations known variously as Scythians, Andronovians, etc. were blue- (or green-) eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people who might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilisation. Moreover, this study found that they were genetically more closely related to modern populations in eastern Europe than those of central and southern Asia.[133] The ubiquity and dominance of the R1a Y-DNA lineage contrasted markedly with the diversity seen in the mtDNA profiles.

I have no interests for R1a Scythians, but that's how it is. Indo-Iranian primar marker was R1a, and that is the fact.

[Proto-Shaman]

I decided to test some models on Iron Age nomads and i'm blaffed. Scythians from Samara and Sarmatians as far east as the Urals are as much steppe/Yamnaya as the Bronze Age Corded Ware culture, LOL.
Yes, I was shocked when I run the samples today. Never thought of that much far east.

[Proto-Shaman]

Iranian peoples (speakers) were obviously R1a-Z93. R1b is alient to Indo-Iranians.
The only Iranian population popping up in Gedmatch calculations for R1a cultures are the Pamiri Tajik, they are racialy Turanid and culturally Turkic, very different from other Iranians.

[Proto-Shaman]

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/scythian-cimmerian-sarmatian-y-dna-mtdna.png

:cry2:cry2:cry2
Bro, these are wstern Scythian groups. Scythians and Sakas from the central and eastern steppes are mostly R1a and many others are even Q1.

[Proto-Shaman]

Ancient Y-DNA data was finally provided by Keyser et al in 2009. They studied the haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area in Siberia dated from between the middle of the 2nd millennium BC and the 4th century AD (Scythian and Sarmatian timeframe). Nearly all subjects belonged to haplogroup R-M17. The authors suggest that their data shows that between the Bronze and the Iron Ages the constellation of populations known variously as Scythians, Andronovians, etc. were blue- (or green-) eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people who might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilisation. Moreover, this study found that they were genetically more closely related to modern populations in eastern Europe than those of central and southern Asia.[133] The ubiquity and dominance of the R1a Y-DNA lineage contrasted markedly with the diversity seen in the mtDNA profiles.

I have no interests for R1a Scythians, but that's how it is. Indo-Iranian primar marker was R1a, and that is the fact.
No offense but, everytime you call R1a Indo-Iranian I have to break out laughing:

https://i.imgur.com/bOoz3qG.png

[Vlatko Vukovic]

The only Iranian population popping up in Gedmatch calculations for R1a cultures are the Pamiri Tajik, they are racialy Turanid and culturally Turkic, very different from other Iranians.

You have R1a even among Persians...

[Voskos]

It's getting clearer day after day that the so called pseudoeuropeans are actually , and have been so since some millenia back, a mix of Turkic tribes from the steppe and paleoeuropids. The so called europe as ancient Greeks defined it had no sense whatsoever from a genetic perspective, especially after the steppe incursions of R1b/R1a Turks into Europe.

[Voskos]

And, of course, modern Turks got trapped into their siberian pseudobullshit, which is a mere result of them remaining in their ancestral eurasian homeland and mixing later on with east asians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

--

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Bro, these are wstern Scythian groups. Scythians and Sakas from the central and eastern steppes are mostly R1a and many others are even Q1.

Western interest us the most bruv.

[Token]

[1] "distance%=1.8284"
Sarmatian_Pokrovka

Yamnaya_Samara,69
Barcin_N,13.8
Mongola,9
Ganj_Dareh_N,5.2
WHG,3

[1] "distance%=2.8257"
Sarmatian_Urals

Yamnaya_Samara,69.4
Barcin_N,15.8
Mongola,11.2
Ganj_Dareh_N,2.8
WHG,0.8

[1] "distance%=2.9318"
Scythian_Samara

Srubnaya-Alakulskaya_MLBA,74
Ganj_Dareh_N,12.8
Mongola,10.8
WHG,2.4

:1127:

[Norka]

Why does anyone care about Scytho-Cucks? Oh wait Turks are cucked by nature...explains a lot.

[rajputprincess]

Seriously Turkish are amazing.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

[Norka]

Seriously Turkish are amazing.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

Mystical idiots

[rajputprincess]

Mystical idiotsWhatever they had such a big Ottoman empire haters gonna hate turks don't care.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

[Norka]

Whatever they had such a big Ottoman empire haters gonna hate turks don't care.

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

Hahah Turks don't care!?! Watch the butthurt. They definitely care. Very insecure people.

[rajputprincess]

Hahah Turks don't care!?! Watch the butthurt. They definitely care. Very insecure people.Not insecure at al turks know that many people are jealous of their success

This is how they ignored it imao like this Turkish girl they smile and leave and jealous people still stay jealous.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/914652a8268855d63b9dc7f1b0adc9e3.gif

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

[Proto-Shaman]

Western interest us the most bruv.
Western Scythians?

... are those who stayed there and had sex orgies with paleoeuropeans.

[Chelubey]

These Mongol Pazyryks, not real Scythians from Ukraine


They are not Proto-Scythian. They are mixed. The Scythians mixed with East Asian populations.

This is an "archaeological Scythian". A Scythian in archeology is a material culture, not a real ethnicity.

[Bosniensis]

....

"Wouuuuuuuwwoouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu wooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu wowwouuuuuuuuuuuu"

What does that mean? You descended from a Wolf right... you must speak their language.

[Proto-Shaman]

"Wouuuuuuuwwoouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu wooouuuuuuuuuuuuuu wowwouuuuuuuuuuuu"

What does that mean? You descended from a Wolf right... you must speak their language.
Yes. Do you like wolves?

[Cumansky]

This is an "archaeological Scythian". A Scythian in archeology is a material culture, not a real ethnicity.

My condolence for your loss cousin but there was already study of western Scythian samples excavated from Scythian culture in Ukraine. Here is populations that overlap with the Ukraine samples and how much percentage. From Anthrogenica:

Scythians (Ukraine) %

37.6 Serbian 5
34.4 Avar 1 Hungary Szolad
34.2 (Romanian)
32.2 Cumansky (South Polish)
30 Croatian 198
28.4 Belarusian 13
25.2 (Bosnian)
24.4 (Bulgarian)
23.2 (Albanian)
23.2 Russian Smolensk 312
22.6 Cossack Kuban
22 (Polish East)
21.6 Polish 13
20.8 (Croatian)
20.8 Cossack Ukrainian
19.2 (Polish,German,Italian)
19 (Polish,German,Italian)
18.6 (Polish)
18.4 (Polish East)
17.2 Hungarian D1
14.2 Hungarian S1
13.4 (German,Italian)
13.2 Roma GS15870
11.6 (Ashkenazi Jew,German,Romani)
11.4 (German,Romani)
10.8 Turkish Istanbul 19185
10.2 Roma GS14352
7.6 North Russian Pinega 1
7.6 Belarusian 1
7.4 (German,British,Belgian,Ashkenazi Jew)
5.8 (Irish,British)
5 (Friso Saxon)
5 (Friso Saxon)
5 (Friso Saxon)
4.8 (Italian North)
4.2 (Northwest European Mixed)
4.2 (Dutch)
3.4 (Ashkenazi Jew)
3.4 (Sephardic Jew Israeli)
2.2 (Lebanese Christian)
0.8 (American)
0.8 (Scottish)

[Chelubey]

My condolence for your loss cousin but there was already study of western Scythian samples excavated from Scythian culture in Ukraine. Here is populations that overlap with the Ukraine samples and how much percentage. From Anthrogenica:

Scythians (Ukraine) %

37.6 Serbian 5
34.4 Avar 1 Hungary Szolad
34.2 (Romanian)
32.2 Cumansky (South Polish)
30 Croatian 198
28.4 Belarusian 13
25.2 (Bosnian)
24.4 (Bulgarian)
23.2 (Albanian)
23.2 Russian Smolensk 312
22.6 Cossack Kuban
22 (Polish East)
21.6 Polish 13
20.8 (Croatian)
20.8 Cossack Ukrainian
19.2 (Polish,German,Italian)
19 (Polish,German,Italian)
18.6 (Polish)
18.4 (Polish East)
17.2 Hungarian D1
14.2 Hungarian S1
13.4 (German,Italian)
13.2 Roma GS15870
11.6 (Ashkenazi Jew,German,Romani)
11.4 (German,Romani)
10.8 Turkish Istanbul 19185
10.2 Roma GS14352
7.6 North Russian Pinega 1
7.6 Belarusian 1
7.4 (German,British,Belgian,Ashkenazi Jew)
5.8 (Irish,British)
5 (Friso Saxon)
5 (Friso Saxon)
5 (Friso Saxon)
4.8 (Italian North)
4.2 (Northwest European Mixed)
4.2 (Dutch)
3.4 (Ashkenazi Jew)
3.4 (Sephardic Jew Israeli)
2.2 (Lebanese Christian)
0.8 (American)
0.8 (Scottish)
Assimilated Indo-Europeans.
Tatars have many haplogroups E, J perhaps from the Black Sea region (possibly even of Greek / Balkan origin).

[Cumansky]

Assimilated Indo-Europeans.
Tatars have many haplogroups E, J perhaps from the Black Sea region (possibly even of Greek / Balkan origin).

Broadly speaking Scythian west culture is (Steppe + Balkan) the genetic result indicate that. They are Scythians due to burial practice same as Central Asia. Listen, I will go with Davidski word that they Scythians over Russian bragging about stealing few Haplogroups from Crimea

[DarknessWin]

Scythians were not a race but geographic term .

Its like modern day Americans , you can take the dna of afroamerican man and say that Americans were Africans ????
Also you modern Turks have nothing to do with Scythians or even Mongols,you are Anatolians deal with it muslim midget

[Chelubey]

Broadly speaking Scythian west culture is (Steppe + Balkan) the genetic result indicate that. They are Scythians due to burial practice same as Central Asia. Listen, I will go with Davidski word that they Scythians over Russian bragging about stealing few Haplogroups from Crimea
I don't understand your idea.
Some peoples say that Scythians are descendants of Sintashta people, Sintashta people are close to Norse. What does this mean? Norse are descendants of Scythians? No. Descendants of Sintashta people? No.
You show Balkan-Scythians mix. What does this mean? Scythians are descendants of Balkan people? No. Balkan people are descendants of Scythian people?No.
Some European peoples are closer to Scythians than some Turkic people? Yes. But also some medivial and present turks are closer to European people than to rest turkic people. What does this mean? Nothing.

[Bosniensis]

Scythians were not a race but geographic term .

Its like modern day Americans , you can take the dna of afroamerican man and say that Americans were Africans ????
Also you modern Turks have nothing to do with Scythians or even Mongols,you are Anatolians deal with it muslim midget

You are right, but Scythian was also about Lifestyle.

They lived in steppes and in order to protect themselves they would cut a large circle in dense wood they called Sich (Sych), Sych is a weapon
for cutting things so basically Scythians are people who lived in Syches in steppes. Sych was their stronghold not a city, they still acted like a Horde.

[Proto-Shaman]

Scythians were not a race but geographic term .

Its like modern day Americans , you can take the dna of Afroamerican man and say that Americans were Africans ????
Also you modern Turks have nothing to do with Scythians or even Mongols,you are Anatolians deal with it muslim midget
YOU CREOLIC PIECE OF INDO-EUROPEAN

.......https://i.imgur.com/ayrKfUW.gif

[Proto-Shaman]

I don't understand your idea.
HIS IDEA
.....https://i.imgur.com/qM9DqVV.gif

[Cumansky]

HIS IDEA

New calculator in development, here is BETA preview:

Turkish Istanbul 19185 @ 3.9845

CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 54.8
ALTAI-STEPPE 20
PAZYRYK 11.2
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 10.8
ILLYRIAN 3.2

Serbian 5 @ 2.6177

SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 37.6
ILLYRIAN 18.2
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 16.6
BALTO-SLAVIC 12.6
ALTAI-STEPPE 12.2
REDNECK-EURO 2.8

Finnish East 00282 @ 3.3696

BALTO-SLAVIC 39.2
REDNECK-EURO 38.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 11.8
PAZYRYK 10.8

Cumansky @ 2.1421

BALTO-SLAVIC 42.6
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 32.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 7.8
ILLYRIAN 6.8
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 3.8
REDNECK-EURO 3.4
MAGHREBI 2.6
PAZYRYK 0.8

Albanian @ 3.7698

ILLYRIAN 38.6
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 23.6
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 23.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 11.2
BALTO-SLAVIC 3.6

North Russian Pinega 1 @ 2.7961

BALTO-SLAVIC 51.0
REDNECK-EURO 21.2
PAZYRYK 13.4
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 7.6
ALTAI-STEPPE 6.8

[Proto-Shaman]

New calculator in development, here is BETA preview:

Turkish Istanbul 19185 @ 3.9845

CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 54.8
ALTAI-STEPPE 20
PAZYRYK 11.2
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 10.8
ILLYRIAN 3.2

Serbian 5 @ 2.6177

SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 37.6
ILLYRIAN 18.2
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 16.6
BALTO-SLAVIC 12.6
ALTAI-STEPPE 12.2
REDNECK-EURO 2.8

Finnish East 00282 @ 3.3696

BALTO-SLAVIC 39.2
REDNECK-EURO 38.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 11.8
PAZYRYK 10.8

Cumansky @ 2.1421

BALTO-SLAVIC 42.6
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 32.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 7.8
ILLYRIAN 6.8
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 3.8
REDNECK-EURO 3.4
MAGHREBI 2.6
PAZYRYK 0.8

Albanian @ 3.7698

ILLYRIAN 38.6
CAUCASUS-LEVANT-ABYSSINIA 23.6
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 23.2
ALTAI-STEPPE 11.2
BALTO-SLAVIC 3.6

North Russian Pinega 1 @ 2.7961

BALTO-SLAVIC 51.0
REDNECK-EURO 21.2
PAZYRYK 13.4
SCYTHIAN-THRACIAN 7.6
ALTAI-STEPPE 6.8
So, at the end everybody got a drop of Skithian in his veins :thumb001: