Bronze Age Orkney Islanders

[Peterski]

Compare to Neolithic Orcadians:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279096-Neolithic-Orkney-Islanders

Here is a Bronze Age Orcadian:

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/huge-bronze-age-settlement-on-orkney-discovered/

I2981, Early Bronze Age Orkney Islands, years 2009-1497 calBCE, mtDNA T2a1b1a:

GEDmatch Genesis kit number - WZ1172764

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 35.56
2 Atlantic 29.63
3 Eastern_Euro 11.88
4 Baltic 10.51
5 West_Med 5.66
6 West_Asian 2.61
7 South_Asian 1.66
8 East_Med 1.16
9 Amerindian 0.72
10 Red_Sea 0.41
11 Oceanian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Danish 2.65
2 West_Scottish 3.39
3 Irish 3.83
4 North_Dutch 4.4
5 Southeast_English 4.47
6 North_German 4.96
7 Orcadian 5.48
8 Southwest_English 6.25
9 Norwegian 6.91
10 West_Norwegian 7.85
11 Swedish 8.27
12 South_Dutch 8.65
13 North_Swedish 9.79
14 West_German 10.28
15 East_German 13.24
16 French 13.62
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.19
18 Austrian 16.93
19 Finnish 17.79
20 Hungarian 17.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 95.3% West_Scottish + 4.7% MA-1 @ 2.02
2 91.3% West_Scottish + 8.7% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.17
3 92.5% West_Scottish + 7.5% Erzya @ 2.24
4 94% West_Scottish + 6% Chuvash @ 2.24
5 89.8% West_Scottish + 10.2% East_Finnish @ 2.28
6 94.9% West_Scottish + 5.1% Mari @ 2.34
7 85.3% West_Scottish + 14.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.39
8 96.3% Danish + 3.7% French_Basque @ 2.42
9 70.9% Danish + 29.1% West_Scottish @ 2.48
10 92.2% West_Scottish + 7.8% Southwest_Russian @ 2.5
11 98.5% Danish + 1.5% MA-1 @ 2.51
12 92.2% West_Scottish + 7.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.52
13 92.4% West_Scottish + 7.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.54
14 79.5% Danish + 20.5% Irish @ 2.55
15 88.7% West_Scottish + 11.3% Finnish @ 2.55
16 92.1% West_Scottish + 7.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.59
17 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Anzick-1 @ 2.59
18 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Karitiana @ 2.59
19 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Pima @ 2.6
20 97.7% Danish + 2.3% Southwest_French @ 2.6

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% West_Scottish @ 2.946774

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Danish +25% West_Scottish @ 2.831155

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Danish + Danish + West_Scottish @ 2.831155
2 Danish + Danish + Danish + Irish @ 2.923766
3 Danish + Danish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.946774
4 Danish + Danish + Danish + Danish @ 3.022775
5 Danish + Danish + Danish + Southeast_English @ 3.042341
6 Danish + Danish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 3.042700
7 Danish + Danish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.091383
8 Danish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.096778
9 Danish + Danish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 3.125803
10 North_Swedish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.162301
11 North_Swedish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.167057
12 Danish + Danish + Irish + Irish @ 3.183219
13 Irish + North_Swedish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.194643
14 Orcadian + Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.213235
15 Southwest_Finnish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.232417
16 Irish + North_Swedish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 3.232619
17 Danish + Danish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 3.262390
18 Irish + Irish + North_Swedish + West_Scottish @ 3.277406
19 Danish + Danish + Irish + North_German @ 3.289220
20 Danish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 3.301765

Eurogenes K36:

110149 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 4.05 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 5.25 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 2.48 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 3.79 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 8.19 Pct
Fennoscandian 11.79 Pct
French 5.05 Pct
Iberian 16.14 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 1.74 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 19.23 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 17.66 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 3.28 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 1.33 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

Similarity Map:

https://i.imgur.com/eWbAKbt.png

[Peterski]

Show this to autists on Skadi and they will probably claim that Bronze Age Scotland spoke a Germanic language, LOL.

BTW, this Bronze Age Orcadian in Eurogenes K13 is even closer to Denmark than in Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.81
2 Baltic 26.63
3 West_Med 10.08
4 West_Asian 5.93
5 East_Med 3.34
6 South_Asian 1.65
7 Amerindian 1
8 Oceanian 0.55
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.37
11 Northeast_African 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Danish 1.06
2 North_Dutch 1.63
3 Norwegian 2.85
4 North_German 2.89
5 Orcadian 3.64
6 Irish 4.2
7 Swedish 4.72
8 West_Scottish 4.87
9 Southeast_English 5.11
10 Southwest_English 6.57
11 South_Dutch 8.75
12 West_German 9.3
13 North_Swedish 10.89
14 East_German 12.87
15 Austrian 12.88
16 French 14.82
17 Hungarian 17.08
18 Southwest_Finnish 19.06
19 South_Polish 21.69
20 Spanish_Cataluna 22.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99.3% Danish + 0.7% Pima @ 0.74
2 99.4% Danish + 0.6% Karitiana @ 0.74
3 99.3% Danish + 0.7% North_Amerindian @ 0.75
4 99.3% Danish + 0.7% Mayan @ 0.76
5 99.1% Danish + 0.9% West_Greenlander @ 0.86
6 99.3% Danish + 0.7% East_Greenlander @ 0.86
7 99.1% Danish + 0.9% MA-1 @ 0.92
8 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Papuan @ 0.94
9 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Chukchi @ 0.96
10 99.6% Danish + 0.4% NAN_Melanesian @ 0.97
11 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Koryak @ 0.99
12 92.6% Danish + 7.4% Swedish @ 1
13 87.9% Danish + 12.1% Norwegian @ 1
14 99.1% Danish + 0.9% Chuvash @ 1
15 99.2% Danish + 0.8% Mari @ 1
16 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Ket @ 1.01
17 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Selkup @ 1.01
18 99% Danish + 1% Tatar @ 1.01
19 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Shors @ 1.01
20 80.6% Danish + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 1.02

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% Danish @ 0.854065

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Danish +25% Danish @ 0.854065

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Danish + Danish + Danish @ 0.854065
2 Danish + Danish + Danish + North_Dutch @ 0.900123
3 Danish + Danish + North_German + Norwegian @ 0.929855
4 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 0.941332
5 Danish + Danish + Danish + Norwegian @ 0.968359
6 Danish + Danish + Danish + North_German @ 1.009230
7 Danish + North_Dutch + North_German + Norwegian @ 1.054867
8 Danish + North_German + Norwegian + Orcadian @ 1.060898
9 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 1.064801
10 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + North_German @ 1.092657
11 Danish + North_German + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 1.112390
12 Danish + Danish + North_German + Orcadian @ 1.127512
13 Danish + Danish + Irish + North_German @ 1.132512
14 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 1.149699
15 North_German + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 1.178998
16 Danish + Irish + North_German + Norwegian @ 1.187617
17 Danish + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 1.211643
18 Danish + Danish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 1.222781
19 Danish + Irish + North_German + Swedish @ 1.269829
20 Danish + Danish + Irish + Swedish @ 1.271701

"Stenchme, Lop Ness, Sanday (Orkney, Scotland): A crouched human burial was excavated in 2000 from eroding coastal sand dunes on the island of Sanday, Orkney (Canmore ID 306622, https://canmore.org.uk/site/306622/sanday-stenchme)113. The Early Bronze Age burial lay in a stone cist measuring 1.3 m north-south by 0.9 m east-west, and was apparently associated with lithics and pottery (https://canmore.org.uk/site/306622/sandaystenchme). A human petrous bone was successfully analyzed for ancient DNA:

I2981/GENSCOT80: 2009–1497 calBCE [1741–1497 calBCE (3320±50 BP, AA51418); 2009–1696 calBCE (3520±40 BP, AA-43651)]"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL08EiB3Avc

[Matxe92]

Show this to autists on Skadi and they will probably claim that Bronze Age Scotland spoke a Germanic language, LOL.

BTW, this Bronze Age Orcadian in Eurogenes K13 is even closer to Denmark than in Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.81
2 Baltic 26.63
3 West_Med 10.08
4 West_Asian 5.93
5 East_Med 3.34
6 South_Asian 1.65
7 Amerindian 1
8 Oceanian 0.55
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.37
11 Northeast_African 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Danish 1.06
2 North_Dutch 1.63
3 Norwegian 2.85
4 North_German 2.89
5 Orcadian 3.64
6 Irish 4.2
7 Swedish 4.72
8 West_Scottish 4.87
9 Southeast_English 5.11
10 Southwest_English 6.57
11 South_Dutch 8.75
12 West_German 9.3
13 North_Swedish 10.89
14 East_German 12.87
15 Austrian 12.88
16 French 14.82
17 Hungarian 17.08
18 Southwest_Finnish 19.06
19 South_Polish 21.69
20 Spanish_Cataluna 22.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99.3% Danish + 0.7% Pima @ 0.74
2 99.4% Danish + 0.6% Karitiana @ 0.74
3 99.3% Danish + 0.7% North_Amerindian @ 0.75
4 99.3% Danish + 0.7% Mayan @ 0.76
5 99.1% Danish + 0.9% West_Greenlander @ 0.86
6 99.3% Danish + 0.7% East_Greenlander @ 0.86
7 99.1% Danish + 0.9% MA-1 @ 0.92
8 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Papuan @ 0.94
9 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Chukchi @ 0.96
10 99.6% Danish + 0.4% NAN_Melanesian @ 0.97
11 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Koryak @ 0.99
12 92.6% Danish + 7.4% Swedish @ 1
13 87.9% Danish + 12.1% Norwegian @ 1
14 99.1% Danish + 0.9% Chuvash @ 1
15 99.2% Danish + 0.8% Mari @ 1
16 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Ket @ 1.01
17 99.6% Danish + 0.4% Selkup @ 1.01
18 99% Danish + 1% Tatar @ 1.01
19 99.5% Danish + 0.5% Shors @ 1.01
20 80.6% Danish + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 1.02

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +50% Danish @ 0.854065

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Danish +25% Danish +25% Danish @ 0.854065

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Danish + Danish + Danish + Danish @ 0.854065
2 Danish + Danish + Danish + North_Dutch @ 0.900123
3 Danish + Danish + North_German + Norwegian @ 0.929855
4 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + North_German @ 0.941332
5 Danish + Danish + Danish + Norwegian @ 0.968359
6 Danish + Danish + Danish + North_German @ 1.009230
7 Danish + North_Dutch + North_German + Norwegian @ 1.054867
8 Danish + North_German + Norwegian + Orcadian @ 1.060898
9 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch @ 1.064801
10 Danish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + North_German @ 1.092657
11 Danish + North_German + Swedish + West_Scottish @ 1.112390
12 Danish + Danish + North_German + Orcadian @ 1.127512
13 Danish + Danish + Irish + North_German @ 1.132512
14 Danish + Danish + North_Dutch + Norwegian @ 1.149699
15 North_German + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 1.178998
16 Danish + Irish + North_German + Norwegian @ 1.187617
17 Danish + North_German + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 1.211643
18 Danish + Danish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 1.222781
19 Danish + Irish + North_German + Swedish @ 1.269829
20 Danish + Danish + Irish + Swedish @ 1.271701

"Stenchme, Lop Ness, Sanday (Orkney, Scotland): A crouched human burial was excavated in 2000 from eroding coastal sand dunes on the island of Sanday, Orkney (Canmore ID 306622, https://canmore.org.uk/site/306622/sanday-stenchme)113. The Early Bronze Age burial lay in a stone cist measuring 1.3 m north-south by 0.9 m east-west, and was apparently associated with lithics and pottery (https://canmore.org.uk/site/306622/sandaystenchme). A human petrous bone was successfully analyzed for ancient DNA:

I2981/GENSCOT80: 2009–1497 calBCE [1741–1497 calBCE (3320±50 BP, AA51418); 2009–1696 calBCE (3520±40 BP, AA-43651)]"



He is more danish than me. And im danish. Haha.

[Peterski]

He is more danish than me. And im danish. Haha.

In K13 yes, but in K36 you have higher similarity to Denmark than just 80, if I remember correctly?

BTW here Late Bronze Age Caledonians:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279182-Late-Bronze-Age-Caledonians

[Bellbeaking]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279182-Late-Bronze-Age-Caledonians

very cool thread, very northern shifted also compared to your caledonians

[Grace O'Malley]

There doesn't appear to be much differences with Insular Celts like myself even today. My North Atlantic is a little bit higher and my Baltic is a smidgen lower. Does anyone see any great differences?

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 51.79
2 Baltic 25.5
3 West_Med 10.04
4 West_Asian 7.38
5 East_Med 1.64
6 Red_Sea 1.41
7 Amerindian 1.14
8 Siberian 0.89
9 Oceanian 0.16
10 South_Asian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Dutch 2.85
2 Irish 3.05
3 Norwegian 3.39
4 West_Scottish 3.65
5 Danish 3.68
6 Orcadian 3.71
7 North_German 5.21
8 Southeast_English 6.05
9 Southwest_English 6.21
10 Swedish 6.25
11 South_Dutch 10.07
12 West_German 10.91
13 North_Swedish 12.59
14 Austrian 15.02
15 East_German 15.15
16 French 15.82
17 Hungarian 19.32
18 Southwest_Finnish 20.83
19 Spanish_Cataluna 23.19
20 South_Polish 23.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.6% Irish + 45.4% Norwegian @ 2.09
2 53% Norwegian + 47% West_Scottish @ 2.2
3 74.8% Irish + 25.2% Swedish @ 2.34
4 86.8% Irish + 13.2% North_Swedish @ 2.41
5 55.3% North_Dutch + 44.7% Irish @ 2.42
6 67.8% West_Scottish + 32.2% Swedish @ 2.43
7 93.6% Irish + 6.4% Finnish @ 2.46
8 65.9% North_Dutch + 34.1% West_Scottish @ 2.49
9 94.5% Irish + 5.5% East_Finnish @ 2.51
10 92.3% Irish + 7.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.52
11 96.1% Irish + 3.9% Chuvash @ 2.54
12 94.1% Irish + 5.9% La_Brana-1 @ 2.56
13 73.2% Irish + 26.8% North_German @ 2.56
14 96.6% Irish + 3.4% Mari @ 2.59
15 95.7% Irish + 4.3% Erzya @ 2.6
16 94.6% Irish + 5.4% Estonian @ 2.6
17 63.8% West_Scottish + 36.2% North_German @ 2.61
18 82.8% West_Scottish + 17.2% North_Swedish @ 2.61
19 91.2% West_Scottish + 8.8% Finnish @ 2.62
20 62.3% Irish + 37.7% Danish @ 2.62

Likewise my North Sea is a smidgen higher.

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 37.04
2 Atlantic 29.88
3 Baltic 11.89
4 Eastern_Euro 8.75
5 West_Asian 5.16
6 West_Med 4.95
7 Amerindian 1.15
8 Red_Sea 1.1
9 Siberian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Irish 3.03
2 West_Scottish 3.18
3 North_Dutch 3.71
4 Danish 3.92
5 Orcadian 4.92
6 Southeast_English 5.05
7 North_German 5.1
8 Southwest_English 6.72
9 Norwegian 7.23
10 West_Norwegian 7.49
11 Swedish 8.02
12 South_Dutch 9.76
13 West_German 10.83
14 North_Swedish 10.95
15 East_German 14.23
16 French 14.47
17 Southwest_Finnish 15.54
18 Austrian 18.1
19 Hungarian 18.79
20 Finnish 18.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.3% Irish + 14.7% Swedish @ 2.74
2 96.9% West_Scottish + 3.1% Chechen @ 2.76
3 97.1% West_Scottish + 2.9% North_Ossetian @ 2.77
4 97.4% Irish + 2.6% Tabassaran @ 2.78
5 89.9% Irish + 10.1% North_Swedish @ 2.79
6 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Chechen @ 2.8
7 67.9% Irish + 32.1% North_Dutch @ 2.81
8 74.3% West_Scottish + 25.7% North_German @ 2.82
9 97.7% Irish + 2.3% Lezgin @ 2.82
10 97.2% West_Scottish + 2.8% Kabardin @ 2.82
11 86.3% Irish + 13.7% West_Norwegian @ 2.83
12 97.3% West_Scottish + 2.7% Adygei @ 2.83
13 97% West_Scottish + 3% Tabassaran @ 2.83
14 98% Irish + 2% North_Ossetian @ 2.84
15 97.1% West_Scottish + 2.9% Lezgin @ 2.84
16 86.3% Irish + 13.7% Norwegian @ 2.84
17 97.3% West_Scottish + 2.7% Balkar @ 2.85
18 94.8% Irish + 5.2% Finnish @ 2.85
19 96% Irish + 4% Estonian @ 2.86
20 98% Irish + 2% Kabardin @ 2.86

Anyone notice anything that stands out as very different?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Those were Bell Beakers, right ?

[Bellbeaking]

There doesn't appear to be much differences with Insular Celts like myself even today. My North Atlantic is a little bit higher and my Baltic is a smidgen lower. Does anyone see any great differences?

Your profile is similar to the orcadian in the OP, but you are atypically northern shifted for some reason


Those were Bell Beakers, right ?

Yup

[Imperator Biff]

Those were Bell Beakers, right ?

The bell beaker cultural package had fallen out of fashion at this point in the Bronze Age but yeah more or less the same.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Starting to believe British Islanders were just Celticised by elite dominance like some other members implied.

[Grace O'Malley]

Your profile is similar to the orcadian in the OP, but you are atypically northern shifted for some reason



Yup

I'm don't think I am. There's a few threads on here with Irish Gedmatch results.

[Grace O'Malley]

Starting to believe British Islanders were just Celticised by elite dominance like some other members implied.

It's a bit complicated as Celtic language in Ireland and other places appears to be quite old. Definitely older than Hallstatt and La Tene for example. Genetically though the Insular Celts were always a northern population at least since the Beaker times. We will no doubt find out over the next few years. My view is that they are mostly a Northern Beaker population.

[Peterski]

Starting to believe British Islanders were just Celticised by elite dominance like some other members implied.

Bronze Age Outer Hebrides guy is much more Celtic, and similarity to Scandinavia in the map is only 70-something:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279197-Bronze-Age-Outer-Hebrides-with-Megalithic-Y-DNA-haplogroup-I2a2a1

Bronze Age Caledonians also different than this Orcadian: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279182-Late-Bronze-Age-Caledonians

[J. Ketch]

Bronze Age Outer Hebrides guy is much more Celtic, and similarity to Scandinavia in the map is only 70-something:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279197-Bronze-Age-Outer-Hebrides-with-Megalithic-Y-DNA-haplogroup-I2a2a1

Bronze Age Caledonians also different than this Orcadian: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279182-Late-Bronze-Age-Caledonians
Some Neolithic holdout in those individuals I guess.

[Peterski]

Some Neolithic holdout in those individuals I guess.

His Y-DNA haplogroup still exists in Britain and Ireland to this day:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

"I2a2a1 (M284+)
I2-M284 occurs almost exclusively in Britain and Ireland (...)"

These people are paternally descended from Stonehenge builders:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/06/20/stonehenge-builders-used-pythagoras-theorem-2000-years-greek/

[J. Ketch]

Starting to believe British Islanders were just Celticised by elite dominance like some other members implied.
Yeah, but they did noticeably change the genetics. All of Britain and Ireland is Southern shifted since the Bronze Age because of them, but Ireland would have had the least Celtic input.

[J. Ketch]

His Y-DNA haplogroup still exists in Britain and Ireland to this day:

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml

"I2a2a1 (M284+)
I2-M284 occurs almost exclusively in Britain and Ireland (...)"

These people are paternally descended from Stonehenge builders:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/06/20/stonehenge-builders-used-pythagoras-theorem-2000-years-greek/
Cool, I didn't know there was any existing y-dna from Neolithic Britain. Would that have originally been from Mesolithic Britain then?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Yeah, but they did noticeably change the genetics. All of Britain and Ireland is Southern shifted since the Bronze Age because of them, but Ireland would have had the least Celtic input.

Proto-Celts were close to Central European genetically ? Like Swiss, west Austrian or something ? Just guessing.

[Peterski]

Would that have originally been from Mesolithic Britain then?

I2a2 is Megalithic (Neolithic) British, I2a1 is Mesolithic British:

https://i.imgur.com/RXH12Of.png

Some of G2a, E1b, etc. can also be from Neolithic Brits perhaps.

[J. Ketch]

Proto-Celts were close to Central European genetically ? Like Swiss, west Austrian or something ? Just guessing.
I'm not sure, you'd have to come to a conclusion about who exactly the proto-Celts were, but you're probably not far off. Belgian/South German/East French/Austrian etc

[Grace O'Malley]

Yeah, but they did noticeably change the genetics. All of Britain and Ireland is Southern shifted since the Bronze Age because of them, but Ireland would have had the least Celtic input.

Sacrilege:action-smiley-043: That's not going to be a popular opinion. :) I'm really hoping these questions will be cleared up in the next few years. A lot of people here might be surprised to learn that a lot of Irish don't think they are Celts now anyway with some of the articles that have come out over the last 10 years.

[J. Ketch]

Sacrilege:action-smiley-043: That's not going to be a popular opinion. :) I'm really hoping these questions will be cleared up in the next few years. A lot of people here might be surprised to learn that a lot of Irish don't think they are Celts now anyway with some of the articles that have come out over the last 10 years.
Personally I think being the most pure original Bell Beaker people (at least in the British Isles) is something to be proud of.

[Grace O'Malley]

Personally I think being the most pure original Bell Beaker people (at least in the British Isles) is something to be proud of.

I've seen so many twists and turns over the last few years I'm up for anything. Not sure what we are anymore. :)

[Peterski]

I think Proto-Celts were Northern Eutopean genetically.