@Peterski: Ancestor of R1a men turned out Z93 xD

[Proto-Shaman]

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read this thread today.: Ancestor of R1a men on GEDmatch (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?277289-Ancestor-of-R1a-men-on-GEDmatch/page4)

A Sredny Stog II guy (~3000 BC) was ancestral to all R1a men?

Ok let's get this straight, the oldest R1a samples so far were discovered in north Europe. And of them was the Yuzni Oleni Ostrov man (7500 ybp) from Karelia:
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003296

And here is the true bollywood story behind the Sredny Stog II guy:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16475-Ancestor-of-R1a-men-on-GEDmatch
https://i.imgur.com/N2zUTw5.png

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3433-Waves-of-migration-into-South-Asia&p=360581&viewfull=1#post360581
https://i.imgur.com/2RNP1nz.png

[Blondie]

Said the guy who think every european and asian people are descedants of turks... :D

[Proto-Shaman]

Said the guy who think every european and asian people are descedants of turks... :D
I think you are in the wrong thread. The troll section is here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?76-Off-topic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimek_tribe

[Peterski]

So you are saying he was not R1a-M417 but further downstream?

=====

Karelian R1a is not the oldest anyway.

The oldest R1a is from Mesolithic Ukraine, 10643 years ago:

Check this map from Eurogenes blog:

https://i.imgur.com/AtZLd1i.png

But the oldest R1a was not M417+ of course.

[Proto-Shaman]

So you are saying he was not R1a-M417 but further downstream?
Ask the specialists on anthrogenetica and forum.molgen, I just migrated this debate to TA. The Russian guy Semargl is the one who put this claim.

[Proto-Shaman]

The oldest R1a is from Mesolithic Ukraine, 10643 years ago:
Do we have autosomal data for this sample? Any kit number? It would be interesting to know, since R1a populations were not homogeneous.

[Peterski]

Do we have autosomal data for this sample? Any kit number?

Yes, I just uploaded it: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279959-Oldest-sample-with-R1a-on-GEDmatch

[Proto-Shaman]

Yes, I just uploaded it: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279959-Oldest-sample-with-R1a-on-GEDmatch
Great!

__

Btw, for some reason a llot of kits were deleted. Do you know somebody who can reupload these Kazakhstan_BA kits?

Kit No.: Z092581
Y-DNA: R1a1
mtDNA: U2e1
Date: 1611-1503 BCE
SNP count: 270,236

Kit No.: Z303460
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b
mtDNA: H1
Date: 1610-1454 BCE
SNP count: 376,263

Kit No.: Z740946
Y-DNA: -
mtDNA: J1c2
Date: 1640-1527 BCE
SNP count: 392,006

Kit No.: Z523705
Y-DNA: -
mtDNA: U5b2b
Date: 1736-1621 BCE
SNP count: 410,359

They are taken from this study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2018/03/31/292581.DC1/292581-1.pdf

And what about Mal'ta-1? Does anybody have the kit no of this guy?

[Proto-Shaman]

Yes, I just uploaded it: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279959-Oldest-sample-with-R1a-on-GEDmatch
Would be nice if you could also upload these kits if you can:

Gonur_outlier I1783 Z620055
I4901 Dzarkhutan2_BA 2100-1800 BC (Z126798)

[Imperator Biff]

Oldest confirmed R1a-Z93 calls are from srubnaya samples whom cluster closest with modern northern and eastern euros.

I0423_Srubnaya
Gedmatch ID:M328175
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 53.00
2 Baltic 38.25
3 West_Asian 8.76


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Swedish @ 13.195595
2 North_Swedish @ 13.262599
3 Norwegian @ 14.463000
4 Danish @ 16.709755
5 North_German @ 16.816431
6 North_Dutch @ 16.970190
7 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.988657
8 Irish @ 19.168659
9 Orcadian @ 19.438295
10 West_Scottish @ 19.745005
11 Southeast_English @ 21.730829
12 La_Brana-1 @ 22.214294
13 Southwest_English @ 22.670372
14 East_German @ 23.351215
15 Finnish @ 23.489092
16 Austrian @ 24.592615
17 South_Dutch @ 25.320602
18 West_German @ 25.390938
19 Estonian @ 25.606043
20 South_Polish @ 26.107815

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Swedish +50% Swedish @ 12.679420


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Swedish +25% Norwegian +25% Swedish @ 12.662170


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.266216
2 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.291661
3 La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Swedish + Swedish @ 12.316931
4 La_Brana-1 + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.346106
5 La_Brana-1 + Swedish + Swedish + Swedish @ 12.438925
6 La_Brana-1 + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.523800
7 Finnish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.564759
8 Finnish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.599916
9 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.662170
10 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Swedish + Swedish @ 12.679420
11 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian @ 12.693755
12 Finnish + Norwegian + Swedish + Swedish @ 12.705572
13 North_Swedish + North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.718507
14 Danish + La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.730349
15 Estonian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.746006
16 La_Brana-1 + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Swedish @ 12.754502
17 Danish + La_Brana-1 + Swedish + Swedish @ 12.766194
18 Danish + La_Brana-1 + North_Swedish + Norwegian @ 12.767887
19 Danish + La_Brana-1 + Norwegian + Norwegian @ 12.767943
20 La_Brana-1 + North_Dutch + North_Swedish + Norwegian @ 12.770913

Done.

[Proto-Shaman]

Oldest confirmed R1a-Z93 calls are from srubnaya samples whom cluster closest with modern northern and eastern euros.

I0423_Srubnaya
Gedmatch ID:M328175
This is Srubnaya I0423, dated to 1850-1200 BC. The oldest Srubnaya (kit: M235073) is I0354, dated to 2016-1692 BC.

K36 mapping:
https://i.imgur.com/IGOzAoa.png
https://i.imgur.com/NAuy63r.png

PCA plot:
https://i.imgur.com/tHBtmf9.png