Iron Age Balkan DNA

[Peterski]

I have uploaded to GEDmatch this ancient sample from the area near Lyaskovets:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#11/43.0796/26.0423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyaskovets

https://i.imgur.com/RTD6wVN.png

I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria (500-400 BC), GEDmatch Genesis kit number - JD6924634

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64
3 North_Sea 15.14
4 Atlantic 12.54
5 West_Asian 9.66
6 Red_Sea 3.72
7 Baltic 3.65

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 11.98
2 South_Italian 12.54
3 West_Sicilian 12.55
4 East_Sicilian 12.78
5 Central_Greek 13.11
6 Italian_Abruzzo 13.68
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.77
8 Italian_Jewish 14.15
9 Algerian_Jewish 15.17
10 Ashkenazi 15.36
11 North_Italian 15.49
12 Greek 15.57
13 Sephardic_Jewish 16.87
14 Libyan_Jewish 19.2
15 Tunisian_Jewish 20.2
16 Portuguese 21.5
17 Bulgarian 21.51
18 Spanish_Extremadura 21.65
19 Spanish_Galicia 21.91
20 Spanish_Andalucia 22.12

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.3% Central_Greek + 32.7% Sardinian @ 7.43
2 68.2% East_Sicilian + 31.8% Sardinian @ 7.5
3 68.9% South_Italian + 31.1% Sardinian @ 7.51
4 62.8% Ashkenazi + 37.2% Sardinian @ 8.1
5 65.5% Italian_Jewish + 34.5% Sardinian @ 8.13
6 66.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.24
7 66.8% Greek_Thessaly + 33.2% Sardinian @ 8.48
8 71.3% West_Sicilian + 28.7% Sardinian @ 9.01
9 56.2% Libyan_Jewish + 43.8% Sardinian @ 9.47
10 75.4% Tuscan + 24.6% Sardinian @ 9.75
11 60.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 39.2% Sardinian @ 9.78
12 64.8% Algerian_Jewish + 35.2% Sardinian @ 9.79
13 58.2% North_Italian + 41.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 10.12
14 54.3% Italian_Jewish + 45.7% North_Italian @ 10.2
15 54.4% Sardinian + 45.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 10.22
16 59.2% Sardinian + 40.8% Assyrian @ 10.29
17 51% Algerian_Jewish + 49% North_Italian @ 10.32
18 58.6% Sardinian + 41.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 10.32
19 73.2% South_Italian + 26.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.35
20 66.8% Italian_Jewish + 33.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 10.41

K15 PCA Coordinates:

Abscisse (x-axis): 446 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 393 pixel

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

https://i.imgur.com/PdtK15o.png

Eurogenes K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 31.11
2 East_Med 30.15
3 North_Atlantic 22.77
4 West_Asian 8.14
5 Baltic 4.36
6 Red_Sea 3.47

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_Sicilian 8.99
2 Tuscan 10.37
3 South_Italian 11.27
4 Italian_Abruzzo 12.35
5 East_Sicilian 12.66
6 Central_Greek 13.16
7 Italian_Jewish 13.93
8 Algerian_Jewish 14.11
9 North_Italian 14.54
10 Ashkenazi 15.08
11 Sephardic_Jewish 15.08
12 Greek_Thessaly 15.53
13 Tunisian_Jewish 19.04
14 Libyan_Jewish 19.47
15 Spanish_Andalucia 20.53
16 Spanish_Extremadura 20.9
17 Sardinian 21.53
18 Spanish_Murcia 21.8
19 Portuguese 21.84
20 Spanish_Valencia 21.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.3% West_Sicilian + 27.7% Sardinian @ 3.85
2 67.1% South_Italian + 32.9% Sardinian @ 4.54
3 64.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 35.2% Sardinian @ 4.7
4 59.6% Ashkenazi + 40.4% Sardinian @ 5.19
5 64.5% East_Sicilian + 35.5% Sardinian @ 5.34
6 59.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 40.3% Sardinian @ 5.5
7 62% Italian_Jewish + 38% Sardinian @ 5.55
8 63.6% Central_Greek + 36.4% Sardinian @ 5.68
9 73.3% Algerian_Jewish + 26.7% French_Basque @ 5.8
10 74.1% Italian_Jewish + 25.9% French_Basque @ 6.51
11 65.8% Algerian_Jewish + 34.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 6.51
12 60.9% Algerian_Jewish + 39.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.51
13 67.8% Algerian_Jewish + 32.2% Southwest_French @ 6.77
14 62.9% Algerian_Jewish + 37.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 6.91
15 64.2% Algerian_Jewish + 35.8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 6.96
16 72.7% Tuscan + 27.3% Sardinian @ 6.98
17 61.6% Italian_Jewish + 38.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 6.99
18 66.5% Algerian_Jewish + 33.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 7.01
19 61.2% Cyprian + 38.8% French_Basque @ 7.08
20 68.4% Italian_Jewish + 31.6% Southwest_French @ 7.09

Eurogenes K36:

100694 SNPs used in this evaluation

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 2.82 Pct
Armenian 6.06 Pct
Basque 1.58 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 0.67 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 3.39 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 0.66 Pct
East_Med 16.73 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 4.38 Pct
Iberian 8.36 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 36.99 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 1.28 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 3.63 Pct
West_Med 13.45 Pct

And also:

Similarity Map:

https://i.imgur.com/p91cO6w.png

Edit:

Interesting, modern Serbs plot halfway between Belgorod and ancient I5769:

https://i.imgur.com/6Nx9RwD.png

Belgorod is what I suggested before as probably a good proxy for Proto-Slavs:

https://i.imgur.com/l1pvUL0.png

Let's call this guy a Thra-Slav:

Abscisse (x-axis): 477 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 262 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/bsziOQy.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Is that Iron Age Thracian who was E1b ?

[xripkan]

Could this sample be ancient Thracian?

[Peterski]

Is that Iron Age Thracian who was E1b ?

No, it is a different sample, it was a woman (mtDNA haplogroup H):

Sample: I5769 (grave 8)*
Epoch: Iron Age
Latitude, Longitude: 43.16, 25.88
Sex: Female
Site: Dzhulyunitsa - near https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyaskovets
Date: 500-400 BCE

Not much context available:

"I5769 / No 8 (Iron Age, grave 9)*. Sub-adult female. This Iron Age burial was found in an oval pit in sq. 3611. The skeleton in flexed position and is turned to the east. Orientation of the body is SE-NW, with the head to SE. The grave inventory consists of ornamental beads and 21 metal (probably copper) ornaments smaller than 5 mm."

*One source says grave 8, one says grave 9 - must be a mistake.

[Mingle]

Could this sample be ancient Thracian?

Yes. The first Thracians are dated to 1000 B.C. and the first Thracian kingdom (Odrysian kingdom) is from the same period that this sample dates back to. So I'd say it's probably a Thracian.

[Sikeliot]

Seems similar to Mycenaeans.

[Bosniensis]

What is his YDNA

[Bosniensis]

Could this sample be ancient Thracian?

Hardly, Could be Greek or Roman.

[Peterski]

What is his YDNA

It is a woman, so no Y-DNA.


Hardly, Could be Greek or Roman.

Anything is possible, it is not described as Thracian in the study, just as "Balkans Iron Age".

Maybe you have more information about this particular archaeological site and time period?


Seems similar to Mycenaeans.

How she compares to Balkan Bronze Age samples:

https://i.imgur.com/5ueMxOK.png

[Bosniensis]

It has rather low Atlantic in comparison to older Italian samples, so I will assume its not related to Celts which bring us closer to J2 and E1 people.

This is Greco-Roman women, Thracian isn-t for it lacks Scythian influence that has been described among the Thracians.

[Ryuk]

So,Thracian not balto-slavic at all.I wonder Gedza(eh..Darth Bosniensis..eh) what argue know.

[Dick]

I got No shared DNA segments found

[catgeorge]

Big Deal - influence of Thessalian Neolithic

http://www.waa.ox.ac.uk/XDB/images/world/tours/europe-map1.jpg

[xripkan]

Hardly, Could be Greek or Roman.

He can't be Greek. Anciant Greeks din't have this genetic similarity with Tuscan population. I doubt if she is Roman as well. I find it difficult a roman woman to be in eastern Balkans on 500 BC.

[Bosniensis]

He can't be Greek. Anciant Greeks din't have this genetic similarity with Tuscan population. I doubt if she is Roman as well. I find it difficult a roman woman to be in eastern Balkans on 500 BC.

in 500 B.C Southern Italy was part of Greece.

[Kaspias]

I got No shared DNA segments found

Same here

[xripkan]

in 500 B.C Southern Italy was part of Greece.

Rome was never part of Greece. If you mean she was a woman from south Italy with mixed Greek South Italian ancestry I doubt Tuscan would be so high in genetic similarity. Tuscan is high to Albanians who are Paleo-Balkanic. It could be so for Thracians as well.

[Dick]

Puntdnal k10. If she’s Sicilian like then Mid East input is not recent in south europe

sorted):

# Population Percent
1 ENF 49.06
2 WHG 27.9
3 CHG 23.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 3.86
2 Italian_South 6.89
3 Tuscan 7.77
4 Ashkenazi_Jew 8.69
5 Albanian 10.41
6 Greek 10.77
7 Sephardic_Jew 11.1
8 Italian_North 13.11
9 Cypriot 16.25
10 Spanish_Southwest 17.04
11 Bulgarian 17.5
12 Spanish_Northeast 20.02
13 French 21.64
14 Sardinian 21.86
15 Lebanese 22.08
16 Turkish_Aydin 22.97
17 Jordanian 23.98
18 Syrian 24.06
19 Palestinian 24.51
20 Turkish_Kayseri 24.81

[Kaspias]

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 British_Roman + Karsdorf_LN + LBK_EN + LBK_EN @ 2.832578
2 British_Roman + Starcevo_EN + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 2.924117
3 British_Roman + LBK_EN + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 2.992563
4 British_Roman + Karsdorf_LN + LBK_EN + Starcevo_EN @ 3.077983
5 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Maros_BA @ 3.088291
6 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Maros_BA @ 3.088291
7 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Maros_BA @ 3.088291
8 Anatolia_Neolithic + British_Roman + Karsdorf_LN + LBK_EN @ 3.115996
9 British_Roman + Poltavka_MBA + Starcevo_EN + Starcevo_EN @ 3.127714
10 British_Roman + LBK_EN + Poltavka_MBA + Starcevo_EN @ 3.135688
11 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Vatya_MBA @ 3.149898
12 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Vatya_MBA @ 3.149898
13 GermanStuttgart_LBK + GermanStuttgart_LBK + Iran_Chalcolithic + Vatya_MBA @ 3.149898
14 British_Roman + LBK_EN + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA @ 3.166560
15 British_Roman + Starcevo_EN + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA @ 3.188056
16 Afanasievo_Eneolithic + British_Roman + LBK_EN + Starcevo_EN @ 3.249117
17 British_Roman + LBK_EN + LBK_EN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 3.274267
18 Afanasievo_Eneolithic + British_Roman + Starcevo_EN + Starcevo_EN @ 3.284135
19 Anatolia_Neolithic + British_Roman + Starcevo_EN + Yamnaya_Samara_EBA @ 3.296353
20 British_Roman + LBK_EN + LBK_EN + Poltavka_MBA @ 3.345851

[Peterski]

I got No shared DNA segments found

Too early, I just uploaded it. It will be available for comparisons probably tomorrow.

[Ylla]

Is it Thracian or what?

[Hulu]

I got No shared DNA segments found

Which one did you use? I tried it and it says JD6924634 not found

[Peterski]

Is it Thracian or what?

No idea. Who was living there at that time?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyaskovets#History


not found

You need to go on Genesis, not old GEDmatch.

[Dick]

Which one did you use? I tried it and it says JD6924634 not found

Gedmatch genesis

[Kaspias]

Not very different than EBA. I think this means she is not Thracian?

--> https://amtdb.org/records/713

Bulgaria, Smyadovo. Bulgaria_EBA I2175

y-DNA: I2a2a1b1
mt-DNA: K1c1


Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 39.98
2 Atlantic 19.45
3 North_Sea 16.47
4 East_Med 15.79
5 Baltic 8.28
6 Red_Sea 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 13.15
2 North_Italian 18.54
3 Spanish_Andalucia 19.53
4 Portuguese 19.78
5 Spanish_Galicia 19.96
6 Spanish_Extremadura 20.34
7 Spanish_Cantabria 20.56
8 Spanish_Murcia 20.82
9 Spanish_Valencia 20.86
10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.15
11 Spanish_Cataluna 21.2
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 21.31
13 Tuscan 21.34
14 Spanish_Aragon 21.5
15 Southwest_French 21.57
16 Greek_Thessaly 25.32
17 West_Sicilian 25.52
18 Greek 26.25
19 French 27.03
20 Italian_Abruzzo 27.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Swedish @ 5.45
2 77.4% Sardinian + 22.6% West_Norwegian @ 5.49
3 77% Sardinian + 23% Norwegian @ 5.63
4 72.8% Sardinian + 27.2% West_German @ 5.73
5 76.6% Sardinian + 23.4% North_Dutch @ 6.06
6 78% Sardinian + 22% North_Swedish @ 6.08
7 77% Sardinian + 23% Danish @ 6.35
8 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Orcadian @ 6.36
9 74.8% Sardinian + 25.2% Southwest_English @ 6.43
10 75.8% Sardinian + 24.2% Southeast_English @ 6.53
11 76.9% Sardinian + 23.1% Irish @ 6.55
12 77.2% Sardinian + 22.8% West_Scottish @ 6.55
13 76.5% Sardinian + 23.5% North_German @ 6.59
14 69.9% Sardinian + 30.1% French @ 6.75
15 73.4% Sardinian + 26.6% South_Dutch @ 6.77
16 74.6% Sardinian + 25.4% East_German @ 6.85
17 74.5% Sardinian + 25.5% Hungarian @ 6.93
18 79.4% Sardinian + 20.6% Finnish @ 7.03
19 78.7% Sardinian + 21.3% Southwest_Finnish @ 7.03
20 62.7% Sardinian + 37.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 7.04



Eurogenes K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 42.83
2 North_Atlantic 29.25
3 East_Med 19.52
4 Baltic 8.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 12.05
2 Spanish_Andalucia 16.31
3 North_Italian 17.17
4 Spanish_Valencia 17.56
5 Spanish_Extremadura 18.01
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 18.05
7 Spanish_Aragon 18.62
8 Spanish_Cantabria 18.68
9 Spanish_Murcia 18.76
10 Southwest_French 19
11 Portuguese 19.18
12 Spanish_Galicia 19.22
13 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 19.65
14 Tuscan 19.87
15 Spanish_Cataluna 20
16 West_Sicilian 23.56
17 French_Basque 25.54
18 Greek_Thessaly 25.96
19 Italian_Abruzzo 26.19
20 French 27.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Sardinian + 24.1% Southeast_English @ 2.87
2 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% Danish @ 2.91
3 78.5% Sardinian + 21.5% Norwegian @ 2.96
4 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% North_Dutch @ 3.02
5 78.7% Sardinian + 21.3% Swedish @ 3.05
6 77.4% Sardinian + 22.6% North_German @ 3.13
7 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Orcadian @ 3.13
8 73.6% Sardinian + 26.4% South_Dutch @ 3.15
9 73.7% Sardinian + 26.3% West_German @ 3.21
10 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% West_Scottish @ 3.4
11 79.7% Sardinian + 20.3% North_Swedish @ 3.4
12 76.3% Sardinian + 23.7% Southwest_English @ 3.42
13 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% Irish @ 3.43
14 69.9% Sardinian + 30.1% French @ 3.45
15 63.1% Sardinian + 36.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.52
16 59.9% Sardinian + 40.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.54
17 62% Sardinian + 38% Southwest_French @ 3.8
18 75.1% Sardinian + 24.9% Austrian @ 3.85
19 75.9% Sardinian + 24.1% East_German @ 3.87
20 61.6% Sardinian + 38.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.07



Eurogenes K36

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 6.71 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.20 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 4.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 1.47 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 6.38 Pct
Iberian 11.84 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 45.28 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 1.00 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 21.24 Pct

[Bosniensis]

Not very different than EBA. I think this means she is not Thracian?

--> https://amtdb.org/records/713

Bulgaria, Smyadovo. Bulgaria_EBA I2175

y-DNA: I2a2a1b1
mt-DNA: K1c1




That one is Thracian.

Thracians were West Med.

I believe that West Med % went drastically down to everyone in Southern Europe after Slavic and Germanic invasions of Balkans and Italy

[Mingle]

In 400-500 B.C., the main inhabitants of Bulgaria were definitely Thracians. Greeks only lived on settlements along the Black Sea coast rather than interior Thrace. The chances of it being a non-Thracian are very low.

[Mingle]

That one is Thracian.

Thracians were West Med.

I believe that West Med % went drastically down to everyone in Southern Europe after Slavic and Germanic invasions of Balkans and Italy

Why would you expect them to have so much West Med? Considering their geography (Southeast Europe), it makes more sense for them to be more genetically Southeast European (Greek, South & Central Italian, etc) than for them to be genetically Southwest European (North Italian, Iberian, etc).

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

In 400-500 B.C., the main inhabitants of Bulgaria were definitely Thracians. Greeks only lived on settlements along the Black Sea coast rather than interior Thrace. The chances of it being a non-Thracian are very low.

Agree. It was most likely Thracian.

[Pausanias]

these results are very similar with mine

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?251003-IberoHellenic-GEDMatch-results

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Looks like Slavic invasions shifted Albanians and Greeks more eastern then their ancestors. Mycenean samples were western plotting also if I am not mistaken (Sardinian like) ?

[Sikeliot]

Looks like Slavic invasions shifted Albanians and Greeks more eastern then their ancestors. Mycenean samples were western plotting also if I am not mistaken (Sardinian like) ?

Correct. Mycenaeans can be modeled as Sicilians with an extra Sardinian ("West Med") shift and a reduction in the Levantine input.

Sicilians, since they have been used as an example, have since Mycenaean and Sicilian Bell Beaker times, been shifted both northward by Normans, Italics, etc. and again southward by Levantines, Berbers, and Arabs proper. So even if Mycenaeans and Thracians plotted near Sicilians, Sicilians have been pulled back and forth along the PCA plot including by genuine Near Eastern ancestry that Aegean islanders have also, but ancient Greeks, Mycenaeans, Thracians did not have.

So unlike what someone said, this person plotting similarly to Sicilians in some way doesn't negate later Levantine input in SE European fringe regions.

[IncelSlayer]

Looks like Slavic invasions shifted Albanians and Greeks more eastern then their ancestors. Mycenean samples were western plotting also if I am not mistaken (Sardinian like) ?

The Mycenean sample plotted with sicilians

[Sikeliot]

The Mycenean sample plotted with sicilians

It did, but Sicilians also have more northward shifted ancestry as well as an even greater, genuine MENA element shifting them back south. Plotting with Mycenaeans doesn't mean they got to that place due to identical ancestry as there are differences, ALTHOUGH the base of Sicilian ancestry is Mycenaean/Minoan-like, yes.

[Kaspias]

I still have doubts if these results are Thracian, i don't know the reason just seems weird to me. Whatever,

if anyone interested:


Bulgaria, Mednikarovo. Yamnaya_Bul4 3012-2900

--> https://amtdb.org/records/1031

y-DNA: I2a2a1b1b


Eurogenes K15


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.22
2 North_Sea 23.33
3 West_Asian 18.42
4 Baltic 16.77
5 Eastern_Euro 9.64
6 West_Med 4.85
7 East_Med 2.78

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 12.48
2 East_German 13.32
3 Hungarian 14.08
4 North_German 14.64
5 Croatian 15.29
6 Serbian 15.46
7 South_Dutch 15.61
8 Moldavian 16.1
9 Romanian 16.45
10 West_German 17.13
11 South_Polish 17.59
12 Danish 18.05
13 North_Dutch 18.24
14 French 18.27
15 Southwest_Finnish 18.3
16 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.52
17 Southeast_English 18.64
18 Irish 18.76
19 Southwest_English 18.81
20 Bulgarian 18.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.4% North_German + 26.6% North_Ossetian @ 5.84
2 71.8% North_German + 28.2% Kabardin @ 6.23
3 73.1% North_German + 26.9% Adygei @ 6.27
4 71.6% North_German + 28.4% Chechen @ 6.35
5 72.7% North_German + 27.3% Balkar @ 6.45
6 74.4% North_German + 25.6% Ossetian @ 6.96
7 78% North_German + 22% Abhkasian @ 6.97
8 76.9% North_German + 23.1% Georgian @ 7.2
9 68% Irish + 32% North_Ossetian @ 7.3
10 76.8% East_German + 23.2% North_Ossetian @ 7.35
11 69% Danish + 31% North_Ossetian @ 7.39
12 72.2% North_German + 27.8% Lezgin @ 7.39
13 66.1% Irish + 33.9% Kabardin @ 7.42
14 71.9% North_German + 28.1% Kumyk @ 7.46
15 68.8% North_Dutch + 31.2% North_Ossetian @ 7.54
16 67.6% Irish + 32.4% Adygei @ 7.55
17 75.2% East_German + 24.8% Chechen @ 7.63
18 65.9% Irish + 34.1% Chechen @ 7.64
19 67% North_Dutch + 33% Kabardin @ 7.75
20 67.3% Danish + 32.7% Kabardin @ 7.75


Eurogenes K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.1
2 Baltic 28.6
3 West_Asian 18.85
4 West_Med 10.68
5 East_Med 6.78

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 11.01
2 Hungarian 11.21
3 East_German 12.18
4 Moldavian 14.07
5 Croatian 14.16
6 Serbian 14.19
7 West_German 14.28
8 North_German 14.84
9 South_Dutch 15.7
10 South_Polish 16.45
11 Romanian 16.55
12 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.2
13 Swedish 17.46
14 Danish 17.6
15 North_Dutch 17.78
16 North_Swedish 18.45
17 Ukrainian 18.53
18 Norwegian 18.56
19 Bulgarian 19.04
20 French 19.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.7% Swedish + 30.3% Adygei @ 4.27
2 70.2% Swedish + 29.8% North_Ossetian @ 4.64
3 74.4% Swedish + 25.6% Abhkasian @ 4.7
4 67.6% Swedish + 32.4% Chechen @ 4.71
5 68.5% Swedish + 31.5% Kabardin @ 4.75
6 73.3% Swedish + 26.7% Georgian @ 4.75
7 72.2% North_Swedish + 27.8% Georgian @ 4.75
8 75.1% East_German + 24.9% Tabassaran @ 4.82
9 73.3% North_Swedish + 26.7% Abhkasian @ 4.89
10 68.2% Swedish + 31.8% Kumyk @ 5.03
11 69.5% Swedish + 30.5% Balkar @ 5.03
12 68% Swedish + 32% Lezgin @ 5.04
13 77.6% Austrian + 22.4% Tabassaran @ 5.09
14 76.3% East_German + 23.7% Lezgin @ 5.13
15 71.6% North_German + 28.4% Chechen @ 5.32
16 76.2% East_German + 23.8% Chechen @ 5.35
17 72.5% North_German + 27.5% Kabardin @ 5.46
18 78.8% Austrian + 21.2% Lezgin @ 5.47
19 70.9% Swedish + 29.1% Ossetian @ 5.48
20 73.7% North_German + 26.3% Adygei @ 5.5


Eurogenes K36



Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 0.30 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.51 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 9.88 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 3.22 Pct
French 2.36 Pct
Iberian 6.27 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 22.04 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 14.52 Pct
North_Caucasian 10.61 Pct
North_Sea 21.38 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 5.89 Pct
West_Med -

[IncelSlayer]

It did, but Sicilians also have more northward shifted ancestry as well as an even greater, genuine MENA element shifting them back south. Plotting with Mycenaeans doesn't mean they got to that place due to identical ancestry as there are differences, ALTHOUGH the base of Sicilian ancestry is Mycenaean/Minoan-like, yes.

How do you know that part of their MENA input is from arabs during middle ages?It might as well be from ancient phoenicians/jew or other levantine merchants.I'd say only the SSA is from Middle ages.

[Sikeliot]

How do you know that part of their MENA input is from arabs during middle ages?It might as well be from ancient phoenicians/jew or other levantine merchants.I'd say only the SSA is from Middle ages.

The Levantine input in Sicily is likely from Punic peoples (Phoenicians from Lebanon and their satellite states in North Africa). Some of the North African may have arrived then, too. Another possible source is Hellenized Levantines from Syria during the Byzantine conquest.

The Levantine input appears to have also made it to Calabria, but is more limited in other parts of South Italy.

[Bosniensis]

I still have doubts if these results are Thracian, i don't know the reason just seems weird to me. Whatever,

if anyone interested:


Bulgaria, Mednikarovo. Yamnaya_Bul4 3012-2900

--> https://amtdb.org/records/1031

y-DNA: I2a2a1b1b


Eurogenes K15


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.22
2 North_Sea 23.33
3 West_Asian 18.42
4 Baltic 16.77
5 Eastern_Euro 9.64
6 West_Med 4.85
7 East_Med 2.78



That could be Balkan admixture before Roman Conquest

Take a look at modern Western Balkan:

1 Baltic 17.93
2 North_Sea 16.37
3 Atlantic 15.64
4 Eastern_Euro 13.35
5 West_Med 12.62
6 East_Med 11.81
7 West_Asian 8.08

It only has increased Greco-Roman component

[Peterski]

Interesting, modern Serbs plot halfway between Belgorod and ancient I5769:

https://i.imgur.com/6Nx9RwD.png

Belgorod is what I suggested before as probably a good proxy for Proto-Slavs.

[Bosniensis]

Interesting, modern Serbs plot halfway between Belgorod and ancient I5769:

https://i.imgur.com/6Nx9RwD.png

Belgorod is what I suggested before as probably a good proxy for Proto-Slavs.

Is there any way to artificially add Slavic component to Paleo-Balkan to see what would happen?

[Pubiczar]

https://i.postimg.cc/B6ZC4r6m/good-age.png (https://postimg.cc/HJKMtPbM)

I've made a plot with the Mycenaeans, the two Avar samples that were Slavic or Polish like and the Bronze age Bulgaria and Iron age Bulgaria!

It seems that the shift that made the modern Balkan populations plot as they do is two dimensional.
It seems to me that the Slavic input is way overrated and the Chuvash like input way underrated...

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Pic is blurry. Can you fix it ?

[Pubiczar]

Pic is blurry. Can you fix it ?

https://i.postimg.cc/VsKYFpCm/good-age1.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://i.postimg.cc/VsKYFpCm/good-age1.png (https://postimages.org/)

Looks like early Slavs were more western shifted than entire East Europe. What the heck happened there ?

[Peterski]

Is there any way to artificially add Slavic component to Paleo-Balkan to see what would happen?

Of coiurse, I just did it below:

https://i.imgur.com/l1pvUL0.png

Let's call this guy a Thra-Slav:

Abscisse (x-axis): 477 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 262 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/bsziOQy.png

^^^ "Balanced Mestizo" xD

[Coolguy1]

Thanks for uploading!

[Coolguy1]

Not very different than EBA. I think this means she is not Thracian?

--> https://amtdb.org/records/713

Bulgaria, Smyadovo. Bulgaria_EBA I2175

Can you provide the gedmatch number along with the yamnaya sample?

y-DNA: I2a2a1b1
mt-DNA: K1c1


Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 39.98
2 Atlantic 19.45
3 North_Sea 16.47
4 East_Med 15.79
5 Baltic 8.28
6 Red_Sea 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 13.15
2 North_Italian 18.54
3 Spanish_Andalucia 19.53
4 Portuguese 19.78
5 Spanish_Galicia 19.96
6 Spanish_Extremadura 20.34
7 Spanish_Cantabria 20.56
8 Spanish_Murcia 20.82
9 Spanish_Valencia 20.86
10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 21.15
11 Spanish_Cataluna 21.2
12 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 21.31
13 Tuscan 21.34
14 Spanish_Aragon 21.5
15 Southwest_French 21.57
16 Greek_Thessaly 25.32
17 West_Sicilian 25.52
18 Greek 26.25
19 French 27.03
20 Italian_Abruzzo 27.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Swedish @ 5.45
2 77.4% Sardinian + 22.6% West_Norwegian @ 5.49
3 77% Sardinian + 23% Norwegian @ 5.63
4 72.8% Sardinian + 27.2% West_German @ 5.73
5 76.6% Sardinian + 23.4% North_Dutch @ 6.06
6 78% Sardinian + 22% North_Swedish @ 6.08
7 77% Sardinian + 23% Danish @ 6.35
8 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Orcadian @ 6.36
9 74.8% Sardinian + 25.2% Southwest_English @ 6.43
10 75.8% Sardinian + 24.2% Southeast_English @ 6.53
11 76.9% Sardinian + 23.1% Irish @ 6.55
12 77.2% Sardinian + 22.8% West_Scottish @ 6.55
13 76.5% Sardinian + 23.5% North_German @ 6.59
14 69.9% Sardinian + 30.1% French @ 6.75
15 73.4% Sardinian + 26.6% South_Dutch @ 6.77
16 74.6% Sardinian + 25.4% East_German @ 6.85
17 74.5% Sardinian + 25.5% Hungarian @ 6.93
18 79.4% Sardinian + 20.6% Finnish @ 7.03
19 78.7% Sardinian + 21.3% Southwest_Finnish @ 7.03
20 62.7% Sardinian + 37.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 7.04



Eurogenes K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 42.83
2 North_Atlantic 29.25
3 East_Med 19.52
4 Baltic 8.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 12.05
2 Spanish_Andalucia 16.31
3 North_Italian 17.17
4 Spanish_Valencia 17.56
5 Spanish_Extremadura 18.01
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 18.05
7 Spanish_Aragon 18.62
8 Spanish_Cantabria 18.68
9 Spanish_Murcia 18.76
10 Southwest_French 19
11 Portuguese 19.18
12 Spanish_Galicia 19.22
13 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 19.65
14 Tuscan 19.87
15 Spanish_Cataluna 20
16 West_Sicilian 23.56
17 French_Basque 25.54
18 Greek_Thessaly 25.96
19 Italian_Abruzzo 26.19
20 French 27.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.9% Sardinian + 24.1% Southeast_English @ 2.87
2 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% Danish @ 2.91
3 78.5% Sardinian + 21.5% Norwegian @ 2.96
4 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% North_Dutch @ 3.02
5 78.7% Sardinian + 21.3% Swedish @ 3.05
6 77.4% Sardinian + 22.6% North_German @ 3.13
7 77.1% Sardinian + 22.9% Orcadian @ 3.13
8 73.6% Sardinian + 26.4% South_Dutch @ 3.15
9 73.7% Sardinian + 26.3% West_German @ 3.21
10 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% West_Scottish @ 3.4
11 79.7% Sardinian + 20.3% North_Swedish @ 3.4
12 76.3% Sardinian + 23.7% Southwest_English @ 3.42
13 77.6% Sardinian + 22.4% Irish @ 3.43
14 69.9% Sardinian + 30.1% French @ 3.45
15 63.1% Sardinian + 36.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.52
16 59.9% Sardinian + 40.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.54
17 62% Sardinian + 38% Southwest_French @ 3.8
18 75.1% Sardinian + 24.9% Austrian @ 3.85
19 75.9% Sardinian + 24.1% East_German @ 3.87
20 61.6% Sardinian + 38.4% Spanish_Cantabria @ 4.07



Eurogenes K36

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque 6.71 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.20 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 4.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 1.47 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French 6.38 Pct
Iberian 11.84 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 45.28 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 1.00 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 21.24 Pct

[Peterski]

Looks like early Slavs were more western shifted than entire East Europe. What the heck happened there ?

Those AV1 and AV2 samples were not early Slavs - they were from Hungary and were mixed with "Restgermanen" probably.

I think modern Belgorod is a better proxy for Early Slavs, but we will see when more of ancient DNA samples get published.

[Kaspias]

.

.

[Peterski]

the two Avar samples

What are their K15 scores?

[Bosniensis]

Of coiurse, I just did it below:

https://i.imgur.com/l1pvUL0.png

Let's call this guy a Thra-Slav:

Abscisse (x-axis): 477 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 262 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/bsziOQy.png

^^^ "Balanced Mestizo" xD

so this old Book wasn't wrong:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X8nLCwBrXNY/V09E3G8QgCI/AAAAAAAAMbI/74gmXiPQ1tg7cdxywMDmzVeb1f2NH2JOwCLcB/s1600/%25D0%25A1%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8 %2B%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B2%25D0%25B5%25D1%2 582%2B%25D1%2588%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BC%25D 0%25BF%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%2B%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0% 2B%25D0%25A1%25D0%25BB%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25 B5%25D0%25BD%25D1%2581%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE-%25D0%2598%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B8%25D1%2580%25D1%2581 %25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%2B%25D1%2598%25D0%2 5B5%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BA%25D1%2583%252C%2 5D0%25B8%25D0%25B7%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%2 5D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%2528%25D0%25B4%25D0%2 5B8%25D1%2598%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BB%25D0%25B5%25D0%2 5BA%25D1%2582%25D0%25B0%2529%25D0%25B1%25D0%25BE%2 5D1%2581%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D1%2581%25D0%25BA%2 5D0%25BE%25D0%25B3%252C1831.%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%2 5D0%25B4%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B0.jpg

[Karkurdu]

I bet this was a Greek migrant or slave. Results are very odd for a Thracian.

Do you have any Thracian kits?

[Pubiczar]

What are their K15 scores?

Ok, you've got the credit...
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?256351-Avars-mom-son-amp-dad-from-Szolad-(Hungary)-on-GEDmatch

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Those AV1 and AV2 samples were not early Slavs - they were from Hungary and were mixed with "Restgermanen" probably.

I think modern Belgorod is a better proxy for Early Slavs, but we will see when more of ancient DNA samples get published.

There are actual early Slav samples from Czech Republic, are they on gedmatch ?

[lonewolfcypriot]

judging by the autosomal dna, I bet this Thracian woman cold easily pass in one of Sikeliot's cousin's night club's.

[Peterski]

Do you have any Thracian kits?

Well, this is the only decent quality Iron Age Balkan sample I know.

Were there Thracians in the Balkans already during the Bronze Age?


Ok, you've got the credit

Right, I forgot about that. I'm surprised that in this tool it is not as close to Belarusians as in Oracle:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

[Karkurdu]

Well, this is the only decent quality Iron Age Balkan sample I know.

Were there Thracians in the Balkans already during the Bronze Age?

Yes, during the 6th-5th centuries Thracians must have been in the Northern Bulgaria region. In m opinion this sample is either some outlier/non-Thracian individual or belongs to a pre-Thracian Balkan population. Highly likely Greek.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Yes, during the 6th-5th centuries Thracians must have been in the Northern Bulgaria region. In m opinion this sample is either some outlier/non-Thracian individual or belongs to a pre-Thracian Balkan population. Highly likely Greek.

It's much more likely Thracian than Greek though. Greeks didn't live in Bulgaria at that time.

[Karkurdu]

It's much more likely Thracian than Greek though. Greeks didn't live in Bulgaria at that time.

It might have been easily a Greek slave or something. They just did not live in masses in the region. The sample is way too Southern, (close to Mycenaean and Minoan samples) for a regular Thracian.

[xripkan]

Yes, during the 6th-5th centuries Thracians must have been in the Northern Bulgaria region. In m opinion this sample is either some outlier/non-Thracian individual or belongs to a pre-Thracian Balkan population. Highly likely Greek.

It is much more north-western shifted than ancient Greeks. It could be only partly Greek. It could also be Illyrian in my opinion.

[Bosniensis]

Yes, during the 6th-5th centuries Thracians must have been in the Northern Bulgaria region. In m opinion this sample is either some outlier/non-Thracian individual or belongs to a pre-Thracian Balkan population. Highly likely Greek.

Thracians that lived on Borders with Greeks became Hellenized and mixed with Greeks.

We have inscriptions from the Southern Thracians writing their own language with Greek Alphabet.

Also Pre-Thracian Balkan populace are Neanderthals cause Thracians were came out of them according to ALL Ancient, Middle Age, Renessianse historians who were repeating like parrots: "There are no older people in Europe than Thracians"

[Dick]

Thracians that lived on Borders with Greeks became Hellenized and mixed with Greeks.

We have inscriptions from the Southern Thracians writing their own language with Greek Alphabet.

Also Pre-Thracian Balkan populace are Neanderthals cause Thracians were came out of them according to ALL Ancient, Middle Age, Renessianse historians who were repeating like parrots: "There are no older people in Europe than Thracians"
Thraciana were info-Europeans. This is proof that Southern Europeans taught the mute Northern Europeans how to speak and that indo-Europeans came via Anatolia

[Karkurdu]

Here is an oracle with ancient samples based on K23b:

1. Mycenaean_Bronze_Age @ 6,0097
2. Sicilian_Center @ 7,821426
3. Italian_Abruzzo @ 8,185401
4. Sicilian_Siracusa @ 8,682586
5. Sicilian_East @ 9,822958
6. Italian_South @ 10,074965
7. Ashkenazi_Jew @ 10,285729
8. Sicilian_Trapani @ 10,401274
9. Sicilian_Agrigento @ 11,264164
10. Italian_Tuscan @ 11,331756
11. Maltese @ 11,795771
12. French_Jew @ 12,137285
13. Sicilian_West @ 12,200869
14. Anatolia_Hellenic_Period @ 12,716297
15. Albanian_South @ 12,778366
16. Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 12,900368
17. Italian_Piedmont @ 13,008554
18. Anatolia_Hittite_Period @ 13,444321
19. Greek_Chios @ 13,657683
20. Italian_Jew @ 13,848246

2-Population Approximation List:

1. %81 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %19 Polish @ 2,31434
2. %68 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %32 Montenegrian @ 2,35206
3. %28 Bosnian + %72 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,352352
4. %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %20 Ukrainian_East @ 2,379525
5. %43 Albanian_North + %57 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,418219
6. %79 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %21 Ukrainian_Center @ 2,42307
7. %18 Belarusian + %82 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,427106
8. %18 Belarusian_South + %82 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,484801
9. %36 Macedonian + %64 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,48554
10. %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %20 Ukrainian @ 2,511401
11. %20 Belarusian_East + %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,532842
12. %17 Lithuanian + %83 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,53397
13. %20 Cossack_Don + %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,580886
14. %28 Croat + %72 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,595597
15. %78 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %22 Ukrainian_West @ 2,604444
16. %70 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %30 Serb @ 2,608479
17. %35 Bulgarian + %65 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,609776
18. %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %20 Sorb @ 2,617805
19. %82 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %18 Russian_Center @ 2,643587
20. %80 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %20 Russian_South @ 2,673089

3-Population Approximation List:

1. %11 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %74 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %15 Polish @ 2,122029
2. %11 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian + %74 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,205171
3. %9 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %74 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %17 Ukrainian_East @ 2,223275
4. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %73 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %17 Ukrainian_Center @ 2,239446
5. %11 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %73 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %16 Ukrainian @ 2,289316
6. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
7. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
8. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
9. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
10. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
11. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
12. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
13. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
14. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
15. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
16. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
17. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
18. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
19. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399
20. %10 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %15 Belarusian_South + %75 Minoan_Bronze_Age @ 2,30399

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It might have been easily a Greek slave or something. They just did not live in masses in the region. The sample is way too Southern, (close to Mycenaean and Minoan samples) for a regular Thracian.

Modern Bulgarians are most southern plotting Slavs so it is logical to assume Thracians were not very northern themself.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It is much more north-western shifted than ancient Greeks. It could be only partly Greek. It could also be Illyrian in my opinion.

Man, Illyrians never went more eastern than Serbia.

[Karkurdu]

Modern Bulgarians are most southern plotting Slavs so it is logical to assume Thracians were not very northern themself.

Well, that's a possiblity too. We need more samples to be sure.

[Bosniensis]

Thraciana were info-Europeans. This is proof that Southern Europeans taught the mute Northern Europeans how to speak and that indo-Europeans came via Anatolia

Trojan Anatolian Civilization 2000 B.C. + that colonized most of Europe were Western Mediterranean I2a2, I2a1, J2a, E1b and R1b people (those who came through Black Sea and Crimea) one part went
through Bosphorus later named as Thracians, other part mixed with Greeks and moved through Italy, Spain and France. This second group are Romans.

We did not participated in Roman Civilization, but Romans are our Cousins, then we mixed with Slavs (who came from Poland and Ukraine) and we are now known as Slavo-Illyrian Thraco-Slavic (Serbian, Croatian) people.

Later Romans were destroyed and mixed HEAVILY with Germanic world, East with Slavic and Turkic.

Romans do not exist anymore properly except in Sardinia.

[Kaspias]

She scores 50% ENF. This result is just an expansion of neolithic farmers by adding a bit Steppe and near east. With this West_Med score today Bulgarians would get more West_med than any population in Balkans. But they don't. So something is wrong imo.

[xripkan]

Man, Illyrians never went more eastern than Serbia.

Is there any sample? I find it strange because modern Albanians are between Tuscan and Thessaly. If we think that they accepted a north-eastern input like the other Paleo-Balkanic populations this place fits to Illyrians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Is there any sample? I find it strange because modern Albanians are between Tuscan and Thessaly. If we think that they accepted a north-eastern input like the other Paleo-Balkanic populations this place fits to Illyrians.

There are some bronze age samples from Croatia, don't know are they on gedmatch though. Iron Age Montenegrin sample got deleted for some weird reason.

[Bosniensis]

There are some bronze age samples from Croatia, don't know are they on gedmatch though. Iron Age Montenegrin sample got deleted for some weird reason.

That one plotted with Smolensk Russia 1.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

That one plotted with Smolensk Russia 1.

Yeah, I heard. Very IE.

[Ayetooey]

That one plotted with Smolensk Russia 1.

Sadly it was a female sample also, so no Y dna.

[Bosniensis]

Yeah, I heard. Very IE.

Doesn't have to mean that "Illyrians" were related to IE people.

I've read (by reading Byzantine/Roman sources) things like: "And Thracians fled with their friends Scythians" "Thracians mix with Scythians" "Illyrians trade with Scythians" etc...

I've came to conclusion that Thracians and Illyrians had inherited Scythian traits (Military Tactics, Traditions etc..) of which Romans were disgusted.

Also Scythia (traditionally) were first Neighbors of Illyrians and Thracians, those two were unable to have good relations with Rome so they had good relations with Scythians with whom Rome did not want to have contacts.

[Dick]

That one plotted with Smolensk Russia 1.

No with Czechs on k15 pca

[Ayetooey]

No with Czechs on k15 pca

I think he means the population list on k15. But yes on pca it was near Czechs.

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 42.02
2 Eastern_Euro 29.72
3 Baltic 21.76
4 North_Sea 3.22
5 Sub-Saharan 1.88
6 Northeast_African 1.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Russian_Smolensk 26.97
2 Estonian_Polish 27.04
3 Belorussian 27.9
4 Polish 28.09
5 Southwest_Russian 28.46
6 Kargopol_Russian 28.57
7 Austrian 28.63
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 28.8
9 South_Polish 29.84
10 Croatian 30.19
11 Southwest_Finnish 30.6
12 La_Brana-1 30.63
13 Lithuanian 30.72
14 Erzya 30.89
15 East_Finnish 30.91
16 Estonian 31.55
17 Ukrainian 31.89
18 East_German 32
19 Ukrainian_Lviv 32.63
20 Finnish 32.72

[War Chef]

With this West_Med score today Bulgarians would get more West_med than any population in Balkans. But they don't. So something is wrong imo.

They do. Bulgarians do pull west (towards Italy) on PCA plots. I've noticed it for years and always attributed it to Roman ancestry. For example Marcianopolis was the 3rd most densely populated Roman city, located in modern Bulgaria.

[Pubiczar]

Those AV1 and AV2 samples were not early Slavs - they were from Hungary and were mixed with "Restgermanen" probably.

I think modern Belgorod is a better proxy for Early Slavs, but we will see when more of ancient DNA samples get published.

I don't actually agree that the early Slavs were like Belgorod, that's way too eastern...
If that was the case, it means that the modern Poles are half way towards the Swedes just by looking on the map I've posted.
And I don't think that's the case but more realistic is that they were something in between the Poles, Belorussians and Ukrainians, plotting in the middle of that triangle.

[Kaspias]

They do. Bulgarians do pull west (towards Italy) on PCA plots. I've noticed it for years and always attributed to Roman ancestry. Marcianopolis was the 3rd most densely populated Roman city, located in Bulgaria, for example.

They don't. Every population gets Italy Bulgarians get more because of east med admixture. Bulgarian West Med average is 17-18 which is not different from other South Slavs.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

They do. Bulgarians do pull west (towards Italy) on PCA plots. I've noticed it for years and always attributed it to Roman ancestry. For example Marcianopolis was the 3rd most densely populated Roman city, located in modern Bulgaria.

Bulgarians are eastern as fuck on K15 PCA , probably due to high east med and west asian input.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

[Voskos]

Mdlp k16 anyone?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I don't actually agree that the early Slavs were like Belgorod, that's way too eastern...
If that was the case, it means that the modern Poles are half way towards the Swedes just by looking on the map I've posted.
And I don't think that's the case but more realistic is that they were something in between the Poles, Belorussians and Ukrainians, plotting in the middle of that triangle.

Why not though ? Poles have lot of NW ancestry today.

[War Chef]

Bulgarians are eastern as fuck on K15 PCA , probably due to high east med and west asian input.

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

Dude, they are sitting right on top of Italians, Tuscans. I didn't say they were western but they definitely have some Sardinian-like stuff going on. This woman's legacy continues in modern Bulgarians, but of course most of her genes got stomped out by invading Slavs and whoever from across the Danube.

[Bosniensis]

We will never know anything about Balkan people and Anatolian, because all Roman libraries are burned down, and Ottomans saved Nothing.

We are the most unfortunate people, we will never understand the complexity of Balkans, because there is no way.

Without proper historical notes of Alexandria, Constantinople (both burned till the last scroll) we will never be able to explain presence of various haplogroups on Balkans.

[Pubiczar]

Why not though ? Poles have lot of NW ancestry today.

Why not you ask?
Well, are Poles of today half Slavic half Norse population?
I don't think so...

[War Chef]

https://i.imgur.com/tT1Jc3u.png

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135820&type=printable

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Why not you ask?
Well, are Poles of today half Slavic half Norse population?
I don't think so...

Probably not. But some western Poles almost are, like Peterski and his family.

[Dick]

We will never know anything about Balkan people and Anatolian, because all Roman libraries are burned down, and Ottomans saved Nothing.

We are the most unfortunate people, we will never understand the complexity of Balkans, because there is no way.

Without proper historical notes of Alexandria, Constantinople (both burned till the last scroll) we will never be able to explain presence of various haplogroups on Balkans.

Yes we are able to explain now with DNA testing. Majority is from barbarians

[Kaspias]

Dude, they are sitting right on top of Italians, Tuscans. I didn't say they were western but they definitely have some Sardinian-like stuff going on. This woman's legacy continues in modern Bulgarians, but of course most of her genes got stomped out by invading Slavs and whoever from across the Danube.

The reason Bulgarians closer to Italians is East_med not west_med. They got more East med than West Med unlike she. That is simply not possible. I don't know how she were identifying herself but i think she is not Thracian but descendant of neolithic farmers who were already living in Balkans before Thracians came.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

We will never know anything about Balkan people and Anatolian, because all Roman libraries are burned down, and Ottomans saved Nothing.

We are the most unfortunate people, we will never understand the complexity of Balkans, because there is no way.

Without proper historical notes of Alexandria, Constantinople (both burned till the last scroll) we will never be able to explain presence of various haplogroups on Balkans.

Just shut the fuck up. Few ancient and modern dna studies are enough to make good picture on Balkan DNA. Don't mystify such clear things, it's very Gypsy and Oriental like.
Why are we still waiting on them is another pair of shoes.

[Dick]

A
The reason Bulgarians closer to Italians is East_med not west_med. They got more East med than West Med unlike she. That is simply not possible. I don't know how she were identifying herself but i think she is not Thracian but descendant of neolithic farmers who were already living in Balkans before Thracians came.

Yeh jokes aside most likely this is the case

[xripkan]

If we add the Slavic component to this sample it plots with Balkans. If we also add the Proto-Bulgars input the sample will go a little more eastern to the position of Bulgarians on PCA.

[Dick]

Just shut the fuck up. Few ancient and modern dna studies are enough to make good picture on Balkan DNA. Don't mystify such clear things, it's very Gypsy and Oriental like.
Why are we still waiting on them is another pair of shoes.

He ate too much bacon and rakija today

[Bosniensis]

Yes we are able to explain now with DNA testing. Majority is from barbarians

True. Italy is filled with Germanics, Balkan with Slavic, Anatolia with MENA-Turkic people.

Those whom we call Thracians, Illyrians, Romans were Western Mediterranean I2a2, I2a1a, J2a, and some IE presence.

They don't exist anymore.

"Romans have been defeated. Their Gods won't be able to help them, and because of their Gods they were disbelievers" - Islam

Italy is Germanic, Anatolia Mena, Balkan Slavic... even those whom claim to be Greeks... very shaky theory.... in fact there isn't an evidence that Greeks ever existed as unified ethnicity.

[War Chef]

My theory: Her ancestors died from the plagues and then Greek-Byzantines replaced her people genetically.

[Pubiczar]

https://i.postimg.cc/k5vsbxhY/dada.png (https://postimages.org/)suntrust bank locations near me (https://banks-nearme.com/suntrust-bank-near-me)

The Albanians are the closest thing autosomaly to this sample in the Balkans.
They also score more West Med than other Balkanites.
No matter what some say, I think this sample is a true Thracian.

[Dick]

True. Italy is filled with Germanics, Balkan with Slavic, Anatolia with MENA-Turkic people.

Those whom we call Thracians, Illyrians, Romans were Western Mediterranean I2a2, I2a1a, J2a, and some IE presence.

They don't exist anymore.

"Romans have been defeated. Their Gods won't be able to help them, and because of their Gods they were disbelievers" - Islam

Italy is Germanic, Anatolia Mena, Balkan Slavic... even those whom claim to be Greeks... very shaky theory.... in fact there isn't an evidence that Greeks ever existed as unified ethnicity.
Allah Akbar!

[War Chef]

So if modern Bulgarians aren't a mix of this woman + Slavs then they are what?

Byzantines (greeks) + Slavs?

[Dick]

https://i.postimg.cc/k5vsbxhY/dada.png (https://postimages.org/)suntrust bank locations near me (https://banks-nearme.com/suntrust-bank-near-me)

The Albanians are the closest thing autosomaly to this sample in the Balkans.
They also score more West Med than other Balkanites.
No matter what some say, I think this sample is a true Thracian.


It’s not that close and I doubt it’s a Thracian. Kaspias is probably right

[Bosniensis]

Is it safe to say that Romans, Illyrians and Thracians had strong Western Mediterranean admixture in 0 A.D like 30%+ like that Thracian Sample?

[Voskos]

Could someone with a gedmatch account post the thracian's mdlp k16+ oracle?

[War Chef]

https://i.imgur.com/4ANvwXG.jpg

[Kaspias]

If we add the Slavic component to this sample it plots with Balkans. If we also add the Proto-Bulgars input the sample will go a little more eastern to the position of Bulgarians on PCA.

Proto Bulgars were carrying mainly CHG, ANE, EE and EHG. CHG+ANE can shift them to the East but then they would get more West Asian than East med. I would say Proto-Bulgar DNA don't have remarkable effect to the Bulgarian genetic. Bulgar DNA more like Paleo-Balkan + Slavic + Thracian + Greek or Levant with very slight effect of proto-bulgars. In this sense Thracians should involve so much Steppe DNA expectedly, not ENF.

[Bosniensis]

If we add the Slavic component to this sample it plots with Balkans. If we also add the Proto-Bulgars input the sample will go a little more eastern to the position of Bulgarians on PCA.

If you add Tea into Water it's not Water but Tea. I doubt that modern Balkan people can claim anything of Illyrian and Thracian presence, also I2a1b isn't I2a2.

[Sikeliot]

The reason Bulgarians closer to Italians is East_med not west_med. They got more East med than West Med unlike she. That is simply not possible. I don't know how she were identifying herself but i think she is not Thracian but descendant of neolithic farmers who were already living in Balkans before Thracians came.

This. Bulgarians have less West Med than Greeks/Albanians.

[Livin]

She was mycenean.

[Dick]

Could someone with a gedmatch account post the thracian's mdlp k16+ oracle?

1 Caucasian 36.92
2 Neolithic 36.3
3 Steppe 11.54
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.76
5 NearEast 5.67
6 NorthAfrican 0.81

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian (Tuscany) 8.08
2 Sicilian (Sicily) 9.53
3 Italian (Abruzzo) 10.14
4 Italian (SouthItaly) 10.14
5 Greek (Thessaloniki) 10.41
6 Albanian (Albania) 10.46
7 Greek (Greece) 10.67
8 Greek (Athens) 10.81
9 Corsican (Corsica) 11.1
10 Kosovar (Kosovo) 11.15
11 Greek (Peloponnes) 11.3
12 Italian (NorthIitaly) 11.43
13 Maltese (Malta) 11.46
14 Italian (Bergamo) 11.65
15 Jew (Belmonte) 12.66
16 Jew (Ashkenazim) 12.7
17 Jew (Ashkenazi) 12.84
18 Greek (Greece) 13.14
19 Greek (Macedonia) 13.39
20 Jew (Italian) 13.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.7% Greek (Azov) + 44.3% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 4.99
2 53.7% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 46.3% Armenian (Vardnis) @ 5.11
3 57.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 42.1% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 5.15
4 74.1% Italian (SouthItaly) + 25.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.16
5 57.3% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 42.7% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 5.24
6 76% Sicilian (Sicily) + 24% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.37
7 58.4% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 41.6% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 5.38
8 56.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 43.9% Georgian (Georgia) @ 5.42
9 55.2% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 44.8% Adjar (Adjaria) @ 5.43
10 67.1% Greek (Macedonia) + 32.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.47
11 56.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 43.9% Armenian (Armenia) @ 5.55
12 56.4% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 43.6% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 5.59
13 50.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 49.2% Turk (Kayseri) @ 5.72
14 68.4% Jew (Ashkenazi) + 31.6% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.77
15 58.2% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 41.8% Adygei (Adygea) @ 5.81
16 53.8% Turk (Istanbul) + 46.2% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.82
17 56.7% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 43.3% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 6.1
18 53.4% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 46.6% Assyrian (Armenia) @ 6.13
19 55.1% Cypriot (Cyprus) + 44.9% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 6.15
20 57.5% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 42.5% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 6.1

[Ryuk]

What I understand from these results is that all the Balkans were Albanian in antiquity:p

[Dick]

50% Armenian_Armenia +50% Sardinian_Sardinia @ 5.840134


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Athens +25% Greek_Athens +25% Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.047312


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Cypriot_Cyprus + Greek_Greece + Italian_Bergamo + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 3.731552
2 Cypriot_Cyprus + Greek_Athens + Italian_Tuscany + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 3.772434
3 Cypriot_Cyprus + Greek_Athens + Italian_Bergamo + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 3.784398
4 Cypriot_Cyprus + Sardinian_Sardinia + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Turk_Trabzon @ 3.801663
5 Cypriot_Cyprus + French_SouthFrance + Sardinian_Sardinia + Turk_Trabzon @ 3.862573
6 Cypriot_Cyprus + Greek_Greece + Italian_Tuscany + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.006847
7 Basque_Spain + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Sardinian_Sardinia + Turk_Trabzon @ 4.025079
8 Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.047312
9 Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Macedonia + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.074688
10 Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.186703
11 Armenian_Armenia + Greek_Greece + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.223263
12 Basque_France + Druze_Mount_Carmel + Sardinian_Sardinia + Turk_Trabzon @ 4.228123
13 Armenian_Armenia + Greek_Macedonia + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.235365
14 Cypriot_Cyprus + Greek_Thessaloniki + Italian_Tuscany + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.236612
15 Druze_Mount_Carmel + Sardinian_Sardinia + Spanish_Pais_Vasco + Turk_Trabzon @ 4.253018
16 Georgian_Tbilisi + Greek_Peloponnes + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.301072
17 Greek_Greece + Greek_Athens + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sicilian_Sicily @ 4.307940
18 Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Italian_SouthItaly + Sardinian_Sardinia @ 4.313064
19 Italian_Bergamo + Italian_Tuscany + Sardinian_Sardinia + Turk_Trabzon @ 4.313074
20 Greek_Athens + Greek_Athens + Sardinian_Sardinia + Sicilian_Sicily @ 4

[Bosniensis]

1 Caucasian 36.92
2 Neolithic 36.3
3 Steppe 11.54
4 NorthEastEuropean 8.76
5 NearEast 5.67
6 NorthAfrican 0.81



Now we know we are:


https://youtu.be/EIXctSrNxWA

[Ryuk]

Proto Bulgars were carrying mainly CHG, ANE, EE and EHG. CHG+ANE can shift them to the East but then they would get more West Asian than East med. I would say Proto-Bulgar DNA don't have remarkable effect to the Bulgarian genetic. Bulgar DNA more like Paleo-Balkan + Slavic + Thracian + Greek or Levant with very slight effect of proto-bulgars. In this sense Thracians should involve so much Steppe DNA expectedly, not ENF.


When you say Proto Bulgarian, you mean the Oghurs?If so, then I'd like to see their genetic results

[Thracian]

Fascinating but it is too early to speak.

That woman may have some foreign admixture (like Romans), or could be a Greek ( moving to North by marriage or slavery etc...)

[Voskos]

Thanks for posting man.

[Pubiczar]

Some people are obviously clowns...
Bulgarians don't score way different results than Albanians or mainland Greeks apart that they are more Slavic on average., their West Med is usually 2-3 points less than Albanians.
It's worth saying also that all populations today score more East Med than West Med.
And while the Greeks might be closer to that Iron Age Thracian than Bulgarians, that doesn't mean that all of a sudden they have more Thracian ancestry but only that the've changed less then the Bulgarians who received more Slavic input...

[Kaspias]

When you say Proto Bulgarian, you mean the Oghurs?If so, then I'd like to see their genetic results

I mean Bolghars, Oghurs-Onoghurs were extremely Turkic. I think Bolghars were carrying a bit more West Eurasian. Unfortunately we dont have sample from them. These are just my predictions after the check similar era steppe sample's results.

[Bosniensis]

We can confirm that Slavic invasions and impact on Balkan is a real deal, a massive Baltic influence previously not present is now here.

[Voskos]

Gedza, how many sheep you have in your herd?

[Dick]

We can confirm that Slavic invasions and impact on Balkan is a real deal, a massive Baltic influence previously not present is now here.

Hell has frozen! I can’t Believe my eyes

[Bosniensis]

Gedza, how many sheep you have in your herd?

Well you will have to ask Loki about exact number of TA members.

[Pubiczar]

Plus this Iron Age woman score somehow equal amount of West Med - East Med:
1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64

That all modern Balkanites today have more of East Med than West Med but not by much.
In Eurogenes K13, this is my score:
1 East_Med 22.05
4 West_Med 18.47

The only people who score significantly more East Med than West Med are the Greeks, so perhaps there is some aditional Greek ancestry in the modern Balkanites!!!

[Bosniensis]

Hell has frozen! I can’t Believe my eyes

Can you imagine how I feel.

I was deluded.

[Bosniensis]

Plus this Iron Age woman score somehow equal amount of West Med - East Med:
1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64

That all modern Balkanites today have more of East Med than West Med but not by much.
In Eurogenes K13, this is my score:
1 East_Med 22.05
4 West_Med 18.47

The only people who score significantly more East Med than West Med are the Greeks, so perhaps there is some aditional Greek ancestry in the modern Balkanites!!!

No man.

Greeks have more East Med because of Anatolian Greeks they imported who were mostly Anatolian Orthodoxes.

We have 15% West Med/ East Med but 30%+ Baltic. We are the ones that destroyed Balkan people. huhuehue

[Papastratosels26]

Sub

[Kaspias]

Some people are obviously clowns...
Bulgarians don't score way different results than Albanians or mainland Greeks apart that they are more Slavic on average., their West Med is usually 2-3 points less than Albanians.
It's worth saying also that all populations today score more East Med than West Med.
And while the Greeks might be closer to that Iron Age Thracian than Bulgarians, that doesn't mean that all of a sudden they have more Thracian ancestry but only that the've changed less then the Bulgarians who received more Slavic input...

Western Balkans score west med as much as east med. Things are different in Bulgarians. There were living people in Balkans before Thracians, farmers. When i check their results i think it is clear as daylight this iron age sample is just descendant of them with some other mixes.

Western Balkans got more Slavic input but their results still parallel to her results. Why Bulgarian results are not? There is something lack. If proto-bulgars have that effect to the Bulgarians then they would score EE. Something is lack but it is not Proto-Bulgar. Guess what.

[Bosniensis]

Another reason why I think this is 100% Local Thracian Women is:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 11.98
2 South_Italian 12.54
3 West_Sicilian 12.55

Thracians were always identified as Romans, even Trajan (Trojan) the Emperor etc.. were often hailed coming from Troy
and that Thracians ruled the Troy etc...

Now we see that Thracians from that period Really resembled people close to modern Tuscans which appears that Thracians were in fact Romans.

[Sikeliot]

For comparison these are 2 modern Sicilian results on Eurogenes K15... they are from the Palermo area.. it is clearly different from the Thracian. Though as you see modern Sicilians aren't THAT far from Bulgarians either...


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 32.68
2 West_Med 18.37
3 North_Sea 14.83
4 West_Asian 11.79
5 Red_Sea 7.37
6 Atlantic 7.21
7 Eastern_Euro 2.56
8 Baltic 2.51
9 Sub-Saharan 1.54
10 Amerindian 0.9
11 Oceanian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Jewish 8.26
2 Ashkenazi 9.53
3 East_Sicilian 9.64
4 South_Italian 9.71
5 Algerian_Jewish 10.11
6 Central_Greek 10.19
7 Libyan_Jewish 10.75
8 Sephardic_Jewish 10.91
9 West_Sicilian 12.13
10 Italian_Abruzzo 12.17
11 Greek_Thessaly 13.22
12 Tunisian_Jewish 13.28
13 Cyprian 14.55
14 Greek 15.52
15 Tuscan 15.76
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.7
17 Syrian 17.85
18 Samaritan 18.92
19 Jordanian 19.86
20 Lebanese_Christian 20.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.3% Libyan_Jewish + 42.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 6.41
2 58.5% Lebanese_Christian + 41.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 6.71
3 79.8% Libyan_Jewish + 20.2% West_German @ 6.91
4 52.4% Central_Greek + 47.6% Libyan_Jewish @ 6.92
5 64.9% Samaritan + 35.1% West_German @ 7.16
6 63.7% Libyan_Jewish + 36.3% Tuscan @ 7.19
7 55.2% Libyan_Jewish + 44.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.19
8 84.2% Libyan_Jewish + 15.8% West_Norwegian @ 7.21
9 79.2% Libyan_Jewish + 20.8% French @ 7.22
10 83.8% Libyan_Jewish + 16.2% Norwegian @ 7.25
11 57.3% Lebanese_Druze + 42.7% Spanish_Galicia @ 7.27
12 73.9% Italian_Jewish + 26.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 7.28
13 58.4% Lebanese_Christian + 41.6% Portuguese @ 7.32
14 83% Libyan_Jewish + 17% Southwest_English @ 7.33
15 84% Libyan_Jewish + 16% Swedish @ 7.34
16 60.7% Samaritan + 39.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 7.35
17 81.2% Libyan_Jewish + 18.8% South_Dutch @ 7.35
18 91.9% Italian_Jewish + 8.1% West_Norwegian @ 7.38
19 72.2% Libyan_Jewish + 27.8% North_Italian @ 7.39
20 84.1% Libyan_Jewish + 15.9% Orcadian @ 7.39



This one is probably slightly closer:


# Population Percent
1 East_Med 30.08
2 West_Med 17.11
3 West_Asian 14.11
4 Atlantic 13.41
5 North_Sea 11.12
6 Red_Sea 7.27
7 Baltic 2.83
8 Northeast_African 1.33
9 Eastern_Euro 0.95
10 Sub-Saharan 0.73
11 Oceanian 0.59
12 Southeast_Asian 0.3
13 Siberian 0.18

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 4.4
2 East_Sicilian 4.53
3 Italian_Jewish 4.84
4 Central_Greek 5.96
5 Sephardic_Jewish 6.52
6 Italian_Abruzzo 6.76
7 West_Sicilian 6.78
8 Ashkenazi 6.88
9 Algerian_Jewish 7.45
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.49
11 Libyan_Jewish 11.58
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.83
13 Tuscan 11.85
14 Greek 12.11
15 Cyprian 13.66
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.58
17 Syrian 17.22
18 North_Italian 18.37
19 Turkish 18.87
20 Bulgarian 19.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 36.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.14
2 59.8% Italian_Jewish + 40.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.26
3 54.5% Lebanese_Christian + 45.5% Portuguese @ 2.5
4 64.3% Tuscan + 35.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.66
5 52.5% East_Sicilian + 47.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.72
6 53.3% North_Italian + 46.7% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.74
7 65.7% Cyprian + 34.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.79
8 56.1% Lebanese_Christian + 43.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.83
9 65% Cyprian + 35% Portuguese @ 2.86
10 57.2% Italian_Jewish + 42.8% Central_Greek @ 2.86
11 89.2% Italian_Jewish + 10.8% West_German @ 2.87
12 55.2% Lebanese_Christian + 44.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.87
13 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Orcadian @ 2.88
14 91.1% Italian_Jewish + 8.9% North_Dutch @ 2.93
15 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% North_German @ 2.95
16 90.6% Italian_Jewish + 9.4% Southwest_English @ 2.95
17 55.9% Lebanese_Christian + 44.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.97
18 91.7% Italian_Jewish + 8.3% West_Norwegian @ 2.98
19 91.2% Italian_Jewish + 8.8% Irish @ 2.99
20 89.5% Italian_Jewish + 10.5% South_Dutch @ 2.99

[Pubiczar]

Western Balkans score west med as much as east med. Things are different in Bulgarians. There were living people in Balkans before Thracians, farmers. When i check their results i think it is clear as daylight this iron age sample is just descendant of them with some other mixes.

Western Balkans got more Slavic input but their results still parallel to her results. Why Bulgarian results are not? There is something lack. If proto-bulgars have that effect to the Bulgarians then they would score EE. Something is lack but it is not Proto-Bulgar. Guess what.

Are you sure?
Because this Albanian don't agree with you:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.7
2 West_Med 20.96
3 North_Atlantic 18.76
4 Baltic 17.57
5 West_Asian 9.98
6 Red_Sea 2.67
7 Siberian 0.85
8 Oceanian 0.49
9 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.97
2 Central_Greek 8.47
3 East_Sicilian 9.4
4 West_Sicilian 9.69
5 Ashkenazi 9.8
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.83
7 Bulgarian 10.25
8 Tuscan 10.99
9 South_Italian 12.06
10 Romanian 12.6
11 North_Italian 15.42
12 Italian_Jewish 16.44
13 Algerian_Jewish 16.47
14 Serbian 16.54
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.2
16 Tunisian_Jewish 20.59
17 Libyan_Jewish 21.09
18 Moldavian 22.38
19 Cyprian 22.78
20 Portuguese 23.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.4% Bulgarian + 37.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.38
2 62.5% Bulgarian + 37.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.44
3 51.3% Ashkenazi + 48.7% Bulgarian @ 3.44
4 84.9% Greek_Thessaly + 15.1% Ashkenazi @ 3.63
5 93.5% Greek_Thessaly + 6.5% Italian_Jewish @ 3.82
6 94.1% Greek_Thessaly + 5.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.85
7 57.1% Ashkenazi + 42.9% Romanian @ 3.89
8 97.3% Greek_Thessaly + 2.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.89
9 98.2% Greek_Thessaly + 1.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.9
10 96.6% Greek_Thessaly + 3.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.91
11 97.9% Greek_Thessaly + 2.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.92
12 98% Greek_Thessaly + 2% Samaritan @ 3.93
13 97.5% Greek_Thessaly + 2.5% Cyprian @ 3.93
14 97.3% Greek_Thessaly + 2.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.93
15 97% Greek_Thessaly + 3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.94
16 99% Greek_Thessaly + 1% Egyptian @ 3.96
17 98.9% Greek_Thessaly + 1.1% Palestinian @ 3.96
18 99.3% Greek_Thessaly + 0.7% Tunisian @ 3.97
19 98.8% Greek_Thessaly + 1.2% South_Italian @ 3.97
20 99.6% Greek_Thessaly + 0.4% Sardinian @ 3.97

[Voskos]

The anatolian theory intensifies : 53.7% Sardinian (Sardinia) + 46.3% Armenian (Vardnis) @ 5.11

[Kaspias]

Are you sure?
Because this Albanian don't agree with you:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 28.7
2 West_Med 20.96
3 North_Atlantic 18.76
4 Baltic 17.57
5 West_Asian 9.98
6 Red_Sea 2.67
7 Siberian 0.85
8 Oceanian 0.49
9 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 3.97
2 Central_Greek 8.47
3 East_Sicilian 9.4
4 West_Sicilian 9.69
5 Ashkenazi 9.8
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.83
7 Bulgarian 10.25
8 Tuscan 10.99
9 South_Italian 12.06
10 Romanian 12.6
11 North_Italian 15.42
12 Italian_Jewish 16.44
13 Algerian_Jewish 16.47
14 Serbian 16.54
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.2
16 Tunisian_Jewish 20.59
17 Libyan_Jewish 21.09
18 Moldavian 22.38
19 Cyprian 22.78
20 Portuguese 23.38

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.4% Bulgarian + 37.6% Italian_Jewish @ 3.38
2 62.5% Bulgarian + 37.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.44
3 51.3% Ashkenazi + 48.7% Bulgarian @ 3.44
4 84.9% Greek_Thessaly + 15.1% Ashkenazi @ 3.63
5 93.5% Greek_Thessaly + 6.5% Italian_Jewish @ 3.82
6 94.1% Greek_Thessaly + 5.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.85
7 57.1% Ashkenazi + 42.9% Romanian @ 3.89
8 97.3% Greek_Thessaly + 2.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.89
9 98.2% Greek_Thessaly + 1.8% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.9
10 96.6% Greek_Thessaly + 3.4% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.91
11 97.9% Greek_Thessaly + 2.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.92
12 98% Greek_Thessaly + 2% Samaritan @ 3.93
13 97.5% Greek_Thessaly + 2.5% Cyprian @ 3.93
14 97.3% Greek_Thessaly + 2.7% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.93
15 97% Greek_Thessaly + 3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.94
16 99% Greek_Thessaly + 1% Egyptian @ 3.96
17 98.9% Greek_Thessaly + 1.1% Palestinian @ 3.96
18 99.3% Greek_Thessaly + 0.7% Tunisian @ 3.97
19 98.8% Greek_Thessaly + 1.2% South_Italian @ 3.97
20 99.6% Greek_Thessaly + 0.4% Sardinian @ 3.97

I haven't said anything about Albanians. What is the relevance?

[Livin]

Plus this Iron Age woman score somehow equal amount of West Med - East Med:
1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64

That all modern Balkanites today have more of East Med than West Med but not by much.
In Eurogenes K13, this is my score:
1 East_Med 22.05
4 West_Med 18.47

The only people who score significantly more East Med than West Med are the Greeks, so perhaps there is some aditional Greek ancestry in the modern Balkanites!!!

Greeks don't score high east med.Only people from Pontus and Cyprus!

Their east med is normal.

[Pubiczar]

Well who than are Western Balkans if not Albanians?
Croats, Bosnians??

[Sikeliot]

Greeks don't score high east med.Only people from Pontus and Cyprus!

Their east med is normal.


There are mainland Greeks scoring only 20% East Med if not less. The range is usually 18-22% on average but it can go higher up to like, 26% in Maniots.

[Kaspias]

Well who than are Western Balkans if not Albanians?
Croats, Bosnians??

I would prefer Serbs.

[Livin]

There are mainland Greeks scoring only 20% East Med if not less. The range is usually 18-22% on average but it can go higher up to like, 26% in Maniots.

20% among mainlanders?I don't remember to see one.

Maniots and Cretans yes but not even close to what Pontic or Cypriots score.

[Bosniensis]

Well who than are Western Balkans if not Albanians?
Croats, Bosnians??

Apparently Western Balkan populace mostly died out of Justinian plague, we killed resto.. minority survived in coastal cities.

It may be that Albanians had more presence on Western Balkans, but people who lived here were always locked with Italians (like Excharate of Ravenna) etc..

That people is gone...

[Sikeliot]

20% among mainlanders?I don't remember to see one.

Maniots and Cretans yes but not even close to what Pontic or Cypriots score.

Mani is usually 26% or so, while Crete is usually in the 28-32% range, similar to Sicilians.

[War Chef]

Something is lack but it is not Proto-Bulgar. Guess what.

What!? come on man tell me, this is too suspenseful :icon_eek:

[xripkan]

20% among mainlanders?I don't remember to see one.

Maniots and Cretans yes but not even close to what Pontic or Cypriots score.

You mean 20% is high or low?

[Livin]

Mani is usually 26% or so, while Crete is usually in the 28-32% range, similar to Sicilians.

Yes,south greeks can score by far more east med than mainlanders.But still don't reach the level of cypriots and Pontians xddd :cool:

[Pubiczar]

I would prefer Serbs.

I think that you are wrong here, seriously, there is no point to mention Serbs when the Albanians and the Bulgarians are better candidates for that...
However, let's be fair with you, here is a Southern Albanian with equal West and East Med, although such cases are not so often than the other variant:

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 22.57
2 East_Med 22.13
3 Baltic 20.47
4 North_Atlantic 19.01
5 West_Asian 10.42
6 Red_Sea 2
7 South_Asian 1.41
8 Sub-Saharan 0.89
9 Amerindian 0.76
10 Oceanian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.47
2 Bulgarian 6.37
3 Romanian 8.6
4 Central_Greek 12.28
5 Tuscan 12.29
6 Serbian 12.58
7 Italian_Abruzzo 12.96
8 West_Sicilian 13.25
9 East_Sicilian 13.45
10 North_Italian 14.24
11 Ashkenazi 15.45
12 South_Italian 16.24
13 Moldavian 17.5
14 Croatian 20.45
15 Hungarian 20.64
16 Algerian_Jewish 21.35
17 Portuguese 21.42
18 Italian_Jewish 21.89
19 Spanish_Extremadura 21.92
20 Spanish_Galicia 22.08

[War Chef]

Actually on a second thought there is nothing "mysterious" about these results. Modern Bulgarians are this woman + incoming Slavs

[Livin]

You mean 20% is high or low?

20% is normal IMO if you think that Maniots,Cretans and islanders can score 20+ when Pontians and Cypriots scoring even moree...

[Bosniensis]

Actually on a second thought there is nothing "mysterious" about these results. Modern Bulgarians are this woman + incoming Slavs

that's enough for cultural apocalypse and total destruction of so called Thracians.

[xripkan]

20% is normal IMO if you think that Maniots,Cretans and islanders can score 20+ and Pontians and Cypriots scoring even moree...

The average Greek is 23.5 actually.

[Livin]

The average Greek is 23.5 actually.

Yes somewhere 20,21,22,23.

I have seen a maniot gedmatch scoring 30 east med.Cretans have also high east med.

[Kaspias]

I think that you are wrong here, seriously, there is no point to mention Serbs when the Albanians and the Bulgarians are better candidates for that...
However, let's be fair with you, here is a Southern Albanian with equal West and East Med, although such cases are not so often than the other variant:

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 22.57
2 East_Med 22.13
3 Baltic 20.47
4 North_Atlantic 19.01
5 West_Asian 10.42
6 Red_Sea 2
7 South_Asian 1.41
8 Sub-Saharan 0.89
9 Amerindian 0.76
10 Oceanian 0.34

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.47
2 Bulgarian 6.37
3 Romanian 8.6
4 Central_Greek 12.28
5 Tuscan 12.29
6 Serbian 12.58
7 Italian_Abruzzo 12.96
8 West_Sicilian 13.25
9 East_Sicilian 13.45
10 North_Italian 14.24
11 Ashkenazi 15.45
12 South_Italian 16.24
13 Moldavian 17.5
14 Croatian 20.45
15 Hungarian 20.64
16 Algerian_Jewish 21.35
17 Portuguese 21.42
18 Italian_Jewish 21.89
19 Spanish_Extremadura 21.92
20 Spanish_Galicia 22.08

Believe me i checked more than 2k Balkan results and i don't need a course for who score what. The reason i said Serbs; You said me Bulgarians took Slav migration. Greeks and Albanians took less. Then i said okay yes, Serbs also took it but their results still in same line with iron age balkan dna. Why Bulgarians are not? Then something is lacking. Which means we need a true Thracian sample.

[Bosniensis]

SERBIA IST KOSOVO xD


OP KIT MDLP

MDLP K23b Oracle results:
MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16

Kit JD6924634

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 41.71
2 European_Early_Farmers 30.94
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.65
4 Near_East 10.81
5 North_African 3.82
6 Ancestral_Altaic 0.68
7 South_Central_Asian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_Center ( ) 8.14
2 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 10.23
3 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 10.63
4 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 10.71
5 Italian_South ( ) 10.85
6 Central_Greek ( ) 10.91
7 Sicilian_East ( ) 10.96
8 Ashkenazi ( ) 11.08
9 Greek_Athens ( ) 11.42
10 Kosovar ( ) 11.48
11 Romanian_Jew ( ) 11.72
12 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 11.78
13 Greek_Phokaia ( ) 11.81
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 11.84
15 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 11.92
16 Greek_Islands ( ) 12.22
17 Greek ( ) 12.5
18 French_Jew ( ) 12.71
19 Greek_Northwest ( ) 13.07
20 Greek_Smyrna ( ) 13.13

[Livin]

The average Greek is 23.5 actually.

But keep in mind that Cretans and Maniots are by far closer to myceneans/minoans than any other greek group when it comes to genetics.So their east med admixture is normal.If we think that mycenaeans were sicilian like people!

[Pubiczar]

Believe me i checked more than 2k Balkan results and i don't need a course for who score what. The reason i said Serbs; You said me Bulgarians took Slav migration. Greeks and Albanians took less. Then i said okay yes, Serbs also took it but their results still in same line with iron age balkan dna. Why Bulgarians are not? Then something is lacking. Which means we need a true Thracian sample.

I already said why dude, couple of pages before, the only people who score more East than West Med are the Greeks or more specifically the Aegean Greeks, the Anatolians and so on...
Who do you think the Bulgarians got their East Med from?
The Slavs or the Proto-Bulgars?!?
But no way the Bulgarians are Greek-Slav mix, but more Thracian-Slav plus additional Greek!
And good for you that you've seen 2k gedmatch results!

[xripkan]

But keep in mind that Cretans and Maniots are by far closer to myceneans/minoans than any other greek group when it comes to genetics.So their east med admixture is normal.If we think that mycenaeans were sicilian like people!

Yes, I know that! I have found the average number at spreadsheet of k15. It's 22.2 for Greek Thessaly and for Central Greek(which includes Mani and Crete) the average is almost 27! I am mostly Peloponnesian and I score 24.5 slightly more than Greek average but less than Maniot/Cretan etc.

[Sikeliot]

But keep in mind that Cretans and Maniots are by far closer to myceneans/minoans than any other greek group when it comes to genetics.So their east med admixture is normal.If we think that mycenaeans were sicilian like people!

Mani is not quite like Sicily or Crete but compared to the rest of the mainland they are well on their way.

[War Chef]

SO CAN MODERN BULGARIANS BE MODELED AS THIS IRON AGE THRACIAN LADY + SLAVS?
OR WHAT!?

[Sikeliot]

SO CAN MODERN BULGARIANS BE MODELED AS THIS IRON AGE THRACIAN LADY + SLAVS?
OR WHAT!?

Yes. As can Greeks to some extent probably.

[Livin]

Mani is not quite like Sicily or Crete but compared to the rest of the mainland they are well on their way.

No1s is actually 100% mycenaean or minoan like.But if i have to pick some groups i would say Crete,Mani and Islands.But what i am saying is that mainland greeks is northern shifted even if you put out the slavic admixture.IMO regions like epirus,macedonia,thessalia and some parts of peloponneus are closer to albania than to Sicily.Its hard to say where mainland greece plots if you put out the slavic and medieval admixtures.I don't think a person from epirus or macedonia is a siclian or south italian like even if you
delete his slavic or balkan(whatever) admixture.

[Kaspias]

I already said why dude, couple of pages before, the only people who score more East than West Med are the Greeks or more specifically the Aegean Greeks, the Anatolians and so on...
Who do you think the Bulgarians got their East Med from?
The Slavs or the Proto-Bulgars?!?
But no way the Bulgarians are Greek-Slav mix, but more Thracian-Slav plus additional Greek!
And good for you that you've seen 2k gedmatch results!

Greek admixture most likely came from Hellenized Thracians. When Bulgarians settle in Thrace there were no clear Thracian identity but Thracian DNA. They mixed with Thracians who speak Greek and live like Greek. Expectedly Thracians mixed with Greeks before Bulgarians come. Then this mixture mixed again with Bulgarians. I definitely agree about Thracian-Slav + additional Greek. So their w_med reduced, got steppe and additional e_med. That is what i'm trying to say.

[Kaspias]

SO CAN MODERN BULGARIANS BE MODELED AS THIS IRON AGE THRACIAN LADY + SLAVS?
OR WHAT!?

I'm going to model Bulgarians tomorrow

[xripkan]

Proto Bulgars were carrying mainly CHG, ANE, EE and EHG. CHG+ANE can shift them to the East but then they would get more West Asian than East med. I would say Proto-Bulgar DNA don't have remarkable effect to the Bulgarian genetic. Bulgar DNA more like Paleo-Balkan + Slavic + Thracian + Greek or Levant with very slight effect of proto-bulgars. In this sense Thracians should involve so much Steppe DNA expectedly, not ENF.

If we add the small input of Proto-Bulgarians to this sample we have the average west asian component for Bulgarians. The matter is the west med and east med component. What else she could be except Thracian?

[Sikeliot]

No1s is actually 100% mycenaean or minoan like.But if i have to pick some groups i would say Crete,Mani and Islands.But what i am saying is that mainland greeks is northern shifted even if you put out the slavic admixture.IMO regions like epirus,macedonia,thessalia and some parts of peloponneus are closer to albania than to Sicily.Its hard to say where mainland greece plots if you put out the slavic and medieval admixtures.I don't think a person from epirus or macedonia is a siclian or south italian like even if you
delete his slavic or balkan(whatever) admixture.


Right, and the reason is because those regions of Greece have no Levantine input.

[Kaspias]

If we add the small input of Proto-Bulgarians to this sample we have the average west asian component for Bulgarians. The matter is the west med and east med component. What else she could be except Thracian?

Anatolia-Balkan_N a.k.a ENF. I don't know her ethnicity. She is predominantly ENF.

[Pubiczar]

Greek admixture most likely came from Hellenized Thracians. When Bulgarians settle in Thrace there were no clear Thracian identity but Thracian DNA. They mixed with Thracians who speak Greek and live like Greek. Expectedly Thracians mixed with Greeks before Bulgarians come. Then this mixture mixed again with Bulgarians. I definitely agree about Thracian-Slav + additional Greek. So their w_med reduced, got steppe and additional e_med. That is what i'm trying to say.

Nevertheless, that the Thracian were fully Hellenised is a myth...
There are no proves for that.
The line of divide between Greek and Latin influence in Balkans is just that, an influence, that the used written language was either Greek or Latin, which were also used for administration, trade and so on.
That certainly doesn't tell us that the Thracians were fully assimilated but on contrary, we have an account of a Thracian tribe called Bessi and Bessian monks who spoke on their native tongue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessi

[Bosniensis]

Well now we can confirm that this statement about Bulgarians is correct that they are not Thracians but Slavs:


John Skilitsa and George Kedrin announcing the defeat of Byzantines at the River Aheloy in 917 A.D by Tsar Simeon angrily wrote the following:

"The Moesian Simeon has defeated the Army of Romans with his inherent Scythian foolishness"

[Livin]

Right, and the reason is because those regions of Greece have no Levantine input.

I am always categorize Greece in 2 lines.

Strong Levantine Input=witch is obvious from phenotypes like Crete,Laconia(Mani more specific),Islands.
Mainland Greece=More close to Albania with less levantine input.Phenomically also the people(even those who doesn't look slavic or vlach) don't really have the look of Cretans,Maniots or Islanders.

For example an Epirot looks almost Albanian when a Cretan can be closer phonemically to a Cypriot,Pontian Cappadocian etc.

[Kaspias]

Nevertheless, that the Thracian were fully Hellenised is a myth...
There are no proves for that.
The line of divide between Greek and Latin influence in Balkans is just that, an influence, that the used written language was either Greek or Latin, which were also used for administration, trade and so on.
That certainly doesn't tell us that the Thracians were fully assimilated but on contrary, we have an account of a Thracian tribe called Bessi and Bessian monks who spoke on their native tongue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessi

Yeah can be.

[dosas]

Nevertheless, that the Thracian were fully Hellenised is a myth...
There are no proves for that.
The line of divide between Greek and Latin influence in Balkans is just that, an influence, that the used written language was either Greek or Latin, which were also used for administration, trade and so on.
That certainly doesn't tell us that the Thracians were fully assimilated but on contrary, we have an account of a Thracian tribe called Bessi and Bessian monks who spoke on their native tongue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessi

The Thracians were a very large population, spanning across the Balkans. The seaside Thracians, so to speak, were Hellenized, in the sense that they were absorbed in the Hellenic cultural sphere. For example, I suggest Thracian aficionados to read up on the Bergaios kingdom around the Pangaeon mountains.


Coin of Bergaios, Silver drachma depicting satyr carrying a nymph. Reverse: inscription in common Greek ΒΕΡΓΑΙΟΥ round quadripartite square, 400 - 350 BC.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Bergaios_thracian_king.jpg

Another coin, depicting the head of bearded Seilenos or satyr. Reverse: inscription ΒΕΡΓ beneath the fish.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Bergaios_05.jpg

[Ylla]

Plus this Iron Age woman score somehow equal amount of West Med - East Med:
1 West_Med 28.65
2 East_Med 26.64

That all modern Balkanites today have more of East Med than West Med but not by much.
In Eurogenes K13, this is my score:
1 East_Med 22.05
4 West_Med 18.47

The only people who score significantly more East Med than West Med are the Greeks, so perhaps there is some aditional Greek ancestry in the modern Balkanites!!!
I score more east med than west med (27 vs. 23)
But only on eurogenes which is probably not that reliable lol

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I score more east med than west med (27 vs. 23)
But only on eurogenes which is probably not that reliable lol

Eurogenes is by far most reliable for Europeans IMHO.

[Faklon]

It will probably take this forum more than 10 years to understand that West_Med is predominately a proxy for Neolithic populations. Even in the debatable diy map, once you mix the specimen with a Belarussian you get a Serb. Why should it be such a big deal?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It will probably take this forum more than 10 years to understand that West_Med is predominately a proxy for Neolithic populations. Even in the debatable diy map, once you mix the specimen with a Belarussian you get a Serb. Why should it be such a big deal?

Neolithic farmers score almost equal amount of West Med and East Med, check them out: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190254-Gedmatch-results-of-an-Early-Farmer-from-Anatolia!

[Faklon]

Neolithic farmers score almost equal amount of West Med and East Med, check them out: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?190254-Gedmatch-results-of-an-Early-Farmer-from-Anatolia!

Slightly more West_Med like the specimen in question, the point is that these components are irrelevant to population movements.

[Kaspias]

It will probably take this forum more than 10 years to understand that West_Med is predominately a proxy for Neolithic populations. Even in the debatable diy map, once you mix the specimen with a Belarussian you get a Serb. Why should it be such a big deal?

Problem is people thinking this result belong a Thracian while she is just a neolithic farmer.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Problem is people thinking this result belong a Thracian while she is just a neolithic farmer.

Man, we have Mycenean Greeks who were southern as fuck, people didn't expect that either. I think this was a Thracian. Probably bronze and iron age Balkan was just indoeuropeanised neolithic population by small elite, that's why even today Balkan is med as fuck. Don't expect much northerness there, look how damn wog Roman samples are, also IE speaking.

In southern Europe all early IE populations seem to be heavily neolithic, why would Thracians be exception ? Iron Age is too late to find pure neolithic farmer, Thracian much more likely.

[Kaspias]

Man, we have Mycenean Greeks who were southern as fuck, people didn't expect that either. I think this was a Thracian. Probably bronze and iron age Balkan was just indoeuropeasised neolithic population by small elite, that's why even today Balkan is med as fuck.
Don't expect much northerness there, look how damn wog Roman samples are, also IE speaking.

Thracians came from Steppe. 50% ENF is impossible for unmixed Thracian. I know they mixed with Greeks afterwards but not in Iron age or Bronze Age.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Thracians came from Steppe. 50% ENF is impossible for unmixed Thracian. I know they mixed with Greeks afterwards but not in Iron age or Bronze Age.

Lol, Greeks and Romans came from steppe too and they barely score any.

[Kaspias]

Lol, Greeks and Romans came from steppe too and they barely score any.

Not same thing with Thracians. There were no Greeks in Thrace except coastal sides, so they carried their genetic heritage without mixing with them. After they culturally assimilated by Greeks, then they began to mixing and it was at the end of the Iron age. Maybe even after the IA.

[Ylla]

Eurogenes is by far most reliable for Europeans IMHO.

I think in this case the calc that that breaks down everything into simple enf, whg is most accurate, because these components such as west med don't really exist

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I think in this case the calc that that breaks down everything into simple enf, whg is most accurate, because these components such as west med don't really exist

True lol, didn't even know these were made up components until yesterday

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Related thread, if somebody could explain it go ahead:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279669-Why-are-all-early-IE-southern-European-samples-heavily-neolithic-southern

[JQP4545]

How many SNP's were used in this sample? We have a pretty wide range of samples from Bulgaria so how do we know which one is the most representative of the Thracians.

[xripkan]

Thracians came from Steppe. 50% ENF is impossible for unmixed Thracian. I know they mixed with Greeks afterwards but not in Iron age or Bronze Age.

Do we know if Thracians had more steppe admixture than Myceneans? Myceneans had low steppe admixture since their ancestors mixed with neolithic populations before and after arriving Balkans. If the same happened with Thracians it makes sense to find this result.

[Livin]

Do we know if Thracians had more steppe admixture than Myceneans? Myceneans had low steppe admixture since their ancestors mixed with neolithic populations before and after arriving Balkans. If the same happened with Thracians it makes sense to find this result.

All the indoeuropean baleobalkaners were weak in steppe admixture. Thracians, Illyrians, Greeks, Armenians etc were just some kind of millitary elite who forced their languanges and cultures to native neolithics. Thracians were pretty much Like Myceneans.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

All the indoeuropean baleobalkaners were weak in steppe admixture. Thracians, Illyrians, Greeks, Armenians etc were just some kind of millitary elite who forced their languanges and cultures to native neolithics. Thracians were pretty much Like Myceneans.

+1

[Pubiczar]

All the indoeuropean baleobalkaners were weak in steppe admixture. Thracians, Illyrians, Greeks, Armenians etc were just some kind of millitary elite who forced their languanges and cultures to native neolithics. Thracians were pretty much Like Myceneans.

https://i.postimg.cc/QCdKK4R6/egtlch-jpg.png (https://postimages.org/)

If we make comparison between this map and the previous I've posted, we can see that Iron age Bulgaria was something like 30% Yamnaya Bulgaria and 70% Anatolian Farmers.
Modern Tuscans can be modeled with the same populations but with a bit more Yamnaya Bulgaria ancestry.

[Livin]

https://i.postimg.cc/QCdKK4R6/egtlch-jpg.png (https://postimages.org/)

If we make comparison between this map and the previous I've posted, we can see that Iron age Bulgaria was something like 30% Yamnaya Bulgaria and 70% Anatolian Farmers.
Modern Tuscans can be modeled with the same populations but with a bit more Yamnaya Bulgaria ancestry.

How much steppe modern bulgars have? And How much is coming from Slavs or paleobalkaners?

[War Chef]

All the indoeuropean baleobalkaners were weak in steppe admixture. Thracians, Illyrians, Greeks, Armenians etc were just some kind of millitary elite who forced their languanges and cultures to native neolithics. Thracians were pretty much Like Myceneans.

So why didn't this happen to pre-Corded Ware people of central and northern Europe? Underpopulation allowed for complete replacement? Versus in the Balkans overpopulation allowed for elite dominance to take effect?

[War Chef]

^Nope. The answer is Poles, Germans, Scotts, Norwegians and etc. do not descend from Yamnaya, rahter are just of similar genetic stock (WHG-EHG Hunter gatherer).

[Pubiczar]

How much steppe modern bulgars have? And How much is coming from Slavs or paleobalkaners?

https://i.postimg.cc/V6Qj5PBm/Haaketal2015-Figure-3-zpsf94c99b9.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Most of the steppe is coming from the Slavs and most of ENF coming from the native Balkan populations

[Livin]

So why didn't this happen to pre-Corded Ware people of central and northern Europe? Underpopulation allowed for complete replacement? Versus in the Balkans overpopulation allowed for elite dominance to take effect?

Farmers in northern europe have suffered from geonocide.

[Livin]

https://i.postimg.cc/V6Qj5PBm/Haaketal2015-Figure-3-zpsf94c99b9.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Most of the steppe is coming from the Slavs and most of ENF coming from the native Balkan populations


I am wondering what happened this 30% iron age steppe in bulgaria.It must be assilimated into Arival slavs or disappeared for good.

[War Chef]

Farmers in northern europe have suffered from geonocide.


Central and northern Euros don't descend from Yamnaya. Rather their pre-Yamna DNA was already similar to Yamna so it's hard to distinguish the two.

I bet Bulgarians/Romanians have more Yamna proper genetics. North/central Euros are only Yamna-like.... Not the real deal.

[Peterski]

Problem is people thinking this result belong a Thracian while she is just a neolithic farmer.

What do you mean? This is Iron Age genome. You mean "Neolithic survivor" ???

[Livin]

Central and northern Euros don't descend from Yamnaya. Rather their pre-Yamna DNA was already similar to Yamna so it's hard to distinguish the two.

I bet Bulgarians/Romanians have more Yamna proper genetics. North/central Euros are only Yamna-like.... Not the real deal.

Aren’t northern euros a mix of battle-axe people+bell beakers and those to northeast corded+WHG????

[Kaspias]

What do you mean? This is Iron Age genome. You mean "Neolithic survivor" ???

I would prefer BA survivor, with referance of our current BA results.

[tipirneni]

I have uploaded to GEDmatch this ancient sample from the area near Lyaskovets:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#11/43.0796/26.0423

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyaskovets

https://i.imgur.com/RTD6wVN.png

I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria (500-400 BC), GEDmatch Genesis kit number - JD6924634

Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

Interesting, modern Serbs plot halfway between Belgorod and ancient I5769:

https://i.imgur.com/6Nx9RwD.png

Belgorod is what I suggested before as probably a good proxy for Proto-Slavs:

https://i.imgur.com/l1pvUL0.png

Let's call this guy a Thra-Slav:

Abscisse (x-axis): 477 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 262 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/bsziOQy.png
AT 100/1cM on my FTDNA kit

Largest segment = 3.2 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 42.3 cM (1.182 Pct)
25 shared segments found for this comparison.
258795 SNPs used for this comparison.
52.280 Pct SNPs are full identical

goes up to when Q match with 10 Q
Total cM: 200.23
Largest segment cM: 3.24
Total segments: 136


for comparision, I get following on the Z241486 (Tuscan HGDP01168). Some Indians & Pakistanis get similar hits on these Tuscan HGDP smples.

Largest segment = 8.3 cM
Total of segments > 1 cM = 564.6 cM
334 matching segments

[Voskos]

Around 11% anatolian, 74% paleobalkanite med and 15% north euro.(from the oracle posted by karkurdu):
1. %11 Anatolia_Hellenic_Period + %74 Minoan_Bronze_Age + %15 Polish @ 2,122029

[Peterski]

Compare to Bronze Age Balkan DNA from Dalmatia:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279823-Bronze-Age-Balkan-DNA

[Pubiczar]

Largest segment = 9.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 238.7 cM (6.669 Pct)

68 shared segments found for this comparison.

77125 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.660 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Stears match both Bulgarian and Croatian samples, it this normal for Magyar or not ? For this particular sample:

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 24.3 cM (0.679 Pct)

7 shared segments found for this comparison.

222392 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.673 Pct SNPs are full identical

[War Chef]

Stears match both Bulgarian and Croatian samples, it this normal for Magyar or not ? For this particular sample:

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 24.3 cM (0.679 Pct)

7 shared segments found for this comparison.

222392 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.673 Pct SNPs are full identical

Hahaha Stears is a Sardinian Balkan "cow eye" wog....

another reason to bully and tease him, pull his underwear up and give wedgies

https://i.imgur.com/9Y6gccM.jpg

[Mingle]

Stears match both Bulgarian and Croatian samples, it this normal for Magyar or not ? For this particular sample:

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 24.3 cM (0.679 Pct)

7 shared segments found for this comparison.

222392 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.673 Pct SNPs are full identicalProbably cause of his Szekler side. Szeklers are genetically similar to Romanians and Romanians match those samples.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Probably cause of his Szekler side. Szeklers are genetically similar to Romanians and Romanians match those samples.

He comes out genetically half Magyar half Moldavian at mixed Oracle sharing xD

[dosas]

My comparison results, using myheritage raw dna file:



Largest segment = 3.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 25.2 cM (0.703 Pct)

9 shared segments found for this comparison.

253920 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.246 Pct SNPs are full identical.

[paradox]

Same hereNo matches for my father and I either.

[dosas]

A friend's results compared with the Iron Age Bulgaria. Morley predicts him as R1a-F3650:



Largest segment = 3.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 25.1 cM (0.702 Pct)

10 shared segments found for this comparison.

254407 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.821 Pct SNPs are full identical.

[Pubiczar]

All of you who don't share cM with the sample

Set the minimum segment threshold size to be included = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

And try again...

[Kaspias]

All of you who don't share cM with the sample

Set the minimum segment threshold size to be included = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

And try again...Wow, genius..

[Pubiczar]

Wow, genius..

What are your results?

[Kaspias]

What are your results?No shared segments

[xripkan]

All of you who don't share cM with the sample

Set the minimum segment threshold size to be included = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

And try again...

In this case these are my comparison results:

Largest segment = 10.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 254.9 cM (7.121 Pct)

85 shared segments found for this comparison.

77471 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.729 Pct SNPs are full identical

[xripkan]

What do common segments indicate? Ancestry?

[Pubiczar]

What do common segments indicate? Ancestry?

Well just shared cM which indicates that you share ancestry with that sample.
So yes, it means ancestry!
No wonder you match it, I match this sample on the 19th chromosome with 9,7 cM long segment and also match Greeks on that same segment!

[xripkan]

Well just shared cM which indicates that you share ancestry with that sample.
So yes, it means ancestry!
No wonder you match it, I match this sample on the 19th chromosome with 9,7 cM long segment and also match Greeks on that same segment!

So she is either my ancestor or we share a common ancestor?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

All of you who don't share cM with the sample

Set the minimum segment threshold size to be included = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM

And try again...

I match this one

Largest segment = 3.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 403.8 cM (11.269 Pct)

257 shared segments found for this comparison.

227608 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.741 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Pubiczar]

So far xripkan is matching this sample with a longest segment of 10.2 cM!
I am the second with the longest, 9.7 cM, but I match also the Bronze age Dalmatia with a 11.2 cm long segment!

[dosas]

Using *****'s instructions, I get:


Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 489.6 cM (13.663 Pct)

331 shared segments found for this comparison.

253920 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.246 Pct SNPs are full identical.

Dalmatian:


Largest segment = 3.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 412.8 cM (11.524 Pct)

290 shared segments found for this comparison.

279100 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.258 Pct SNPs are full identical.

[xripkan]

So far xripkan is matching this sample with a longest segment of 10.2 cM!
I am the second with the longest, 9.7 cM, but I match also the Bronze age Dalmatia with a 11.2 cm long segment!

These are my results for Bronze Age Dalmatia:
Largest segment = 9.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 288.6 cM (8.066 Pct)

105 shared segments found for this comparison.

84702 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.972 Pct SNPs are full identical

[xripkan]

I used k36 tool for comparison with ancient genomes and the ancient Bulgarian sample has the highest similarity with one mycenean (87%)!

[Pubiczar]

I used k36 tool for comparison with ancient genomes and the ancient Bulgarian sample has the highest similarity with one mycenean (87%)!

I hope someone will upload those Mycenaeans again on Gedmatch genesis as well as that Greek like Bavarian sample STR300 and those Greek like Colegno samples!

[Pubiczar]

Basically is getting more and more clear that the ancient inhabitants of the Balkans were Italian like and had the same cline as in the Italian peninsula as you go from North to South, with the Mycenaeans plotting close to Sicilians, Thracians and Illyrians plotting close to central Italians and more Northern ancient Balkan groups plotting with Northern Italians!

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Basically is getting more and more clear that the ancient inhabitants of the Balkans were Italian like and had the same cline as in the Italian peninsula as you go from North to South, with the Mycenaeans plotting close to Sicilians, Thracians and Illyrians plotting close to central Italians and more Northern ancient Balkan groups plotting with Northern Italians!

I agree but Illyrians look to be North Italian like not Central. Dalmatia was inhabited by Illyrians. But again maybe Illyrians weren't genetically homogenous, they streched from southern Austria to Albania.

[xripkan]

I hope someone will upload those Mycenaeans again on Gedmatch genesis as well as that Greek like Bavarian sample STR300 and those Greek like Colegno samples!

STR300 is deleted but there are some Mycenean samples on Gedmatch. I don't know if they are the same.

[Thracian]

Largest segment = 4.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 480.6 cM (13.414 Pct)

311 shared segments found for this comparison.

260806 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.910 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Thracian]

I also added her results into some Oracles such as K13 and K15. I modelled as half Iron Age Balkan.

[Vojnik]

No Eastern Euro at all.

[Peterski]

I also added her results into some Oracles such as K13 and K15. I modelled as half Iron Age Balkan.

Add also Bronze Age Dalmatian (see my other thread).

[Thracian]

Add also Bronze Age Dalmatian (see my other thread).

I used both in same spread sheet this time. It models me half Iron Age Balkan in 3 populations approximation again. I see both in 4 populations, you can see below some of them.

1 Erzya+Iranian+IronAgeBalkan+BronzAgeBalkan @ 4,640382
2 Erzya+Kurdish+IronAgeBalkan+BronzAgeBalkan @ 4,712085

3 Pop apr. are similar with 4 pops. Half Iron Age+ Erzya (or Kargopol Russian)+ Iran (or Kurdish).

[Bosniensis]

Comparing Kit JD6924634 (I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria) [-] and XXXXXXX (*Bosniensis) [Migration - F2 - T]

Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically between 200 and 400 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.


Largest segment = 1.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 1.8 cM (0.049 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

252733 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.586 Pct SNPs are full identical

[War Chef]

OK so west-Balkaners don't match well with this guy.

This guy is ancestor of Greeks and East Balkaners (Bulgarians, Macedonians, Romanians)

[Coastal Elite]

Some people call this guy Thracian or Illyrian or whatever....I call him very great grandpa

[North Sea]

Largest segment = 3.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 357.8 cM (9.985 Pct)

249 shared segments found for this comparison.

261358 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.497 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Bosniensis]

The thing that intrigues me the most is:

Western Mediterranean admixture.

So called Western "Ancient Roman" people were obviously Sardinian-like people

I've seen 1200 B.C. Italian from Brescia again strong Western Mediterranean admixture and I2a1a haplogroup (like Sardinian)

[North Sea]

Comparing Kit JD6924634 (I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria) [-] and XXXXXXX (*Bosniensis) [Migration - F2 - T]

Segment threshold size will be adjusted dynamically between 200 and 400 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 1.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.


Largest segment = 1.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 1.8 cM (0.049 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

252733 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.586 Pct SNPs are full identical

you need to add SNP to 50 and cm to 1 then everyone will match I assume

[MagnusDark]

Me:

Largest segment = 5.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 372.0 cM (10.384 Pct)

248 shared segments found for this comparison.

256703 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.512 Pct SNPs are full identical


Mother:

Largest segment = 3.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 345.6 cM (9.646 Pct)

239 shared segments found for this comparison.

256380 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.182 Pct SNPs are full identical

Father:

Largest segment = 5.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 345.4 cM (9.641 Pct)

228 shared segments found for this comparison.

253297 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.268 Pct SNPs are full identical

[MagnusDark]

I actually share more with this sample(I assume Thracian?) than I do with a couple of the West Balkan ones I checked. I never knew why me and my father would have a pull towards Sardinia and my mom towards southwest Europe. Now seeing how these samples have a pull to Sardinia and or southwest Europe I wonder if it makes more sense to assume similar admixtures were preserved as opposed to having any actual ancestry from either region.