Bronze Age Balkan DNA

[Peterski]

I have uploaded to GEDmatch Genesis:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#10/43.8352/16.1831

Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia)

This one is more north-western than Iron Age Bulgarian:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279424-Iron-Age-Balkan-DNA

Similarity Map:

https://i.imgur.com/uUNh7mx.png

K15 PCA Graph:

Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:

https://i.imgur.com/l3vQ8Wu.png

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.73
2 West_Med 23.57
3 East_Med 15.67
4 Baltic 13.11
5 West_Asian 8.04
6 Red_Sea 2.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.07
2 Portuguese 6.25
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
11 French 9.14
12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
14 Southwest_French 11.53
15 Tuscan 11.71
16 West_German 14.36
17 South_Dutch 14.77
18 Romanian 16.27
19 Serbian 16.71
20 Bulgarian 17.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56
9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9

Edit:

DNA Land results: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279860-Bronze-Age-Balkan-DNA-Land-Ancestry-Report

[Thracian]

Can you share kit number as well?

[Bosniensis]

https://i.imgur.com/l3vQ8Wu.png

Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.73
2 West_Med 23.57
3 East_Med 15.67
4 Baltic 13.11
5 West_Asian 8.04
6 Red_Sea 2.87

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.07
2 Portuguese 6.25
3 Spanish_Extremadura 6.73
4 Spanish_Cataluna 6.9
5 Spanish_Galicia 7.37
6 Spanish_Murcia 7.51
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 7.79
8 Spanish_Valencia 7.9
9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.18
10 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 8.76
11 French 9.14
12 Spanish_Cantabria 10.07
13 Spanish_Aragon 11.5
14 Southwest_French 11.53
15 Tuscan 11.71
16 West_German 14.36
17 South_Dutch 14.77
18 Romanian 16.27
19 Serbian 16.71
20 Bulgarian 17.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56
9 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.57
10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
12 87.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.1% Kurdish @ 2.78
13 88.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 11.2% Georgian @ 2.81
14 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Kumyk @ 2.82
15 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Armenian @ 2.83
16 87.8% Spanish_Cataluna + 12.2% Adygei @ 2.85
17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86
18 85.5% Spanish_Cataluna + 14.5% Turkish @ 2.87
19 86.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 13.1% Azeri @ 2.89
20 86% Spanish_Valencia + 14% Lezgin @ 2.9


It seems that Byzantines KNEW who were Ancient Romans were related to all the Time:

https://i.imgur.com/jg1tRWB.png

[Peterski]

Can you share kit number as well?

Kit number - SZ6386770

[Morena]

Interesting. It seems that the bronze age was well..bronze.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Awesome work dude. Looks like modern Croats are 2/3 Belgorod and 1/3 Dalmatian BA.

[Peterski]

In this tool: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I3313 Bronze Age Dalmatia: Abscisse (x-axis): 338 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 271 pixel
I5769 Iron Age Bulgaria: Abscisse (x-axis): 446 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 393 pixel

So there was a west-east cline already in Pre-Slavic Balkans:

https://i.imgur.com/BvQlw0v.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This one is nothing like modern Albanians though, much more western shifted and more northern than modern Bulgarian average (or North Italian). So I was right Western Balkan natives were quite more northern than those in the east.

[Hulu]

It seems that Byzantines KNEW who were Ancient Romans were related to all the Time:

https://i.imgur.com/jg1tRWB.png



It's interesting as the Albanian folklore has a tale about a hero fighting the Catalan..

[Bosniensis]

It's interesting as the Albanian folklore has a tale about a hero fighting the Catalan..

Ask Peterski, have no idea.

[Leto]

This one is nothing like modern Albanians though, much more western shifted and more northern than modern Bulgarian average (or North Italian). So I was right Western Balkan natives were quite more northern than those in the east.
On punt he is a pure Italiano


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 44.07
2 NE_Europe 31.26
3 West_Asia 15.02
4 SW_Asia 8.33
5 Siberia 1.17
6 Americas 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Bergamo 1.45
2 Italian_Tuscan 5.97
3 Spaniard 7.14
4 Macedonian 7.92
5 Kosovar 8.48
6 Albanian 8.72
7 Bulgarian 9.08
8 Greek_Thessaly 9.54
9 Montenegrin 10.67
10 Serbian 11.3
11 Romanian 12.02
12 French 12.25
13 Italian_Abruzzo 13.37
14 Bosnian 14.65
15 Croatian 14.92
16 Greek_Central 14.99
17 German_South 15.67
18 French_Basque 15.83
19 Belgian 16.04
20 Moldavian 17.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.9% Italian_Bergamo + 2.1% Selkup @ 0.23
2 98.4% Italian_Bergamo + 1.6% Koryak @ 0.37
3 98.3% Italian_Bergamo + 1.7% Dolgan @ 0.4
4 98.7% Italian_Bergamo + 1.3% Nganasan @ 0.44
5 98.4% Italian_Bergamo + 1.6% Chukchi @ 0.45
6 98.5% Italian_Bergamo + 1.5% Yakut @ 0.49
7 98.5% Italian_Bergamo + 1.5% Eskimo @ 0.65
8 98.3% Italian_Bergamo + 1.7% Tuvinian @ 0.67
9 98.1% Italian_Bergamo + 1.9% Altaian @ 0.7
10 98.3% Italian_Bergamo + 1.7% Mongolian @ 0.82
11 97% Italian_Bergamo + 3% Chuvash @ 0.86
12 96.5% Italian_Bergamo + 3.5% Tatar @ 0.87
13 97.9% Italian_Bergamo + 2.1% Afghan_Hazara @ 0.91
14 98.6% Italian_Bergamo + 1.4% Oroqen @ 0.92
15 97.3% Italian_Bergamo + 2.7% Aluet @ 0.92
16 96.9% Italian_Bergamo + 3.1% Nogay @ 0.96
17 98.8% Italian_Bergamo + 1.2% Daur @ 1.04
18 97.8% Italian_Bergamo + 2.2% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 1.05
19 64.6% Albanian + 35.4% French_Basque @ 1.1
20 97.8% Italian_Bergamo + 2.2% Tadjik @ 1.11

[Bosniensis]

MDLP

1 European_Early_Farmers 32.71
2 Caucasian 31.86
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 23.14
4 Near_East 3.95
5 South_Central_Asian 3.72
6 North_African 2.78
7 East_Siberian 1.16
8 Arctic 0.69

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Piedmont ( ) 3.28
2 Italian_Tuscan ( ) 3.99
3 Italian_North ( ) 8.03
4 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 8.27
5 Italian_Bergamo ( ) 8.32
6 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 11.63
7 Kosovar ( ) 11.7
8 Greek_Northwest ( ) 12.27
9 Sicilian_West ( ) 12.89
10 Maltese ( ) 13.31
11 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 13.52
12 Serb_Serbia ( ) 14.59
13 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 14.69
14 Montenegrian ( ) 15.46
15 German-Volga ( ) 15.47
16 South_German ( ) 15.56
17 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 15.58
18 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 15.62
19 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 16
20 Bulgarian ( ) 16.06

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 41.2% Kosovar ( ) @ 1.93
2 67.7% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 32.3% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 2.11
3 73.2% Bulgarian ( ) + 26.8% Sardinian ( ) @ 2.12
4 72.7% Kosovar ( ) + 27.3% Spanish_Valencia_IBS ( ) @ 2.15
5 84.7% Kosovar ( ) + 15.3% Basque_Spanish ( ) @ 2.17
6 65.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 34.2% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 2.17
7 73.5% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 26.5% Gagauz ( ) @ 2.18
8 77.4% Kosovar ( ) + 22.6% French_South ( ) @ 2.19
9 65.9% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 34.1% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 2.2
10 85.2% Kosovar ( ) + 14.8% Basque_French ( ) @ 2.23
11 82.3% Kosovar ( ) + 17.7% Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS ( ) @ 2.23
12 74% Kosovar ( ) + 26% Spanish_Castilla_la_Mancha_IBS ( ) @ 2.28
13 75.1% Kosovar ( ) + 24.9% Spanish_Cantabria_IBS ( ) @ 2.31

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Damn, very northwestern for a ancient Balkanite, clustering with Piedmont and Lombardy (NW Italians).

[Hulu]

Damn, very northwestern for a ancient Balkanite, clustering with Piedmont and Lombardy (NW Italians)

Not surprising. North Italians bordered Albanians in today's Croatia before slav arrivals.

1 58.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 41.2% Kosovar ( ) @ 1.93

[Bosniensis]

Damn, very northwestern for a ancient Balkanite, clustering with Piedmont and Lombardy (NW Italians)

Well .. Etruscan Civilization which is Anadolian lived in Northern Italy in 1000 B.C so it can't be Northern. IMHO.

[Bosniensis]

Not surprising. North Italians bordered Albanians in today's Croatia before slav arrivals.

1 58.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 41.2% Kosovar ( ) @ 1.93

That's why you have Albanian and Italian % among Serbs and Croats in 33% admxiture, meaning Slavs were vast majority after conquest.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Well .. Etruscan Civilization which is Anadolian lived in Northern Italy in 1000 B.C so it can't be Northern. IMHO.

He cluster with modern NW Italians, not ancient.

[Bosniensis]

He cluster with modern NW Italians, not ancient.

Well It seems that Italy hasn't changed a lot.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Not surprising. North Italians bordered Albanians in today's Croatia before slav arrivals.

1 58.8% Italian_Bergamo ( ) + 41.2% Kosovar ( ) @ 1.93

This dude was obviously ancestral to Albanians since he was J2b2 Balkan branch, looks like Albanians got eastern shifted since than, probably moderate (like 20%) Slav admixture or mixing with Greeks ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Well It seems that Italy hasn't changed a lot.

Well, ancient Dalmatians were nothing like southern Italians and Greeks, pretty interesting imo.

[Hulu]

This dude was obviously ancestral to Albanians since he was J2b2 Balkan branch, looks like Albanians got eastern shifted since than, probably moderate (like 20%) Slav admixture or mixing with Greeks ?

Could be. What's his mtdna?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Could be. What's his mtdna?

The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1 and W3a).

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml#J2b2a1

My mtdna is some type of I interestingly.

[Pribislav]

Peterski crash Albanian wet dreams about Illyrian origin with this thread! :)

[Bosniensis]

Peterski crash Albanian wet dreams about Illyrian origin with this thread! :)

Well Balkan was Italian+Albanian Mix it seems

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Peterski crash Albanian wet dreams about Illyrian origin with this thread! :)

Not really dude. It just shows they changed too since Bronze Age (if BA Albania was same like BA Dalmatia, it's not certain).

[Bosniensis]

Also Excharate of Ravenna included Western Balkans and Western Balkan people were part of Latin group of peoples.

Romano-Illyrian means Italo-Kosovar practically.

According to this Gedmatch in OP.

[Pribislav]

Not really dude. It just shows they changed too since Bronze Age (if BA Albania was same like BA Dalmatia, it's not certain).

This sample is not so close to Alabanians. Ancient woman from Bulgaria is closer to Albanians.

[Bosniensis]

Bronze and Iron Age people : Daljmatijans and Buljgarijans


https://youtu.be/r01iApZKxO4

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This sample is not so close to Alabanians. Ancient woman from Bulgaria is closer to Albanians.

Yeah but this sample has typical Albanian ydna. Albania is as southern as Bulgaria geographically, maybe BA Albania was more south-eastern than BA Dalmatia ?
Could be Northern and southern Illyrian tribes weren't genetically identical.

[Mingle]

I don't know why anyone would expect them to be the same as Albanians. They're from Dalmatia so based on geography, they should be like Albo-shifted North Italians (i.e. East Med-shifted North Italians). Prior to the arrival of Slavs, all of Southern Europe was a single genetic continuum. If you notice, areas from Portugal to Friulia follow a smooth genetic continuum, then there's a radical northwards shift in genetics once Slovenia appears. If you remove Slavs from the equation, then this guy completes the gap between North Italy and Albania in a region currently inhabited by Slavs.

Also, IIRC there was a user (Ajeje Brazorf) who posted some Iron Age Dalmatia results and they were basically the same as this more or less.

[Pribislav]

Yeah but this sample has typical Albanian ydna. Albania is as southern as Bulgaria geographically, maybe BA Albania was more south-eastern than BA Dalmatia ?
Could be Northern and southern Illyrian tribes weren't genetically identical.

It would be interesting to see here results of ancient sample from Monrenegro who is the closest to modern Russians and Ukrainians.

[Hulu]

Yeah but this sample has typical Albanian ydna. Albania is as southern as Bulgaria geographically, maybe BA Albania was more south-eastern than BA Dalmatia ?
Could be Northern and southern Illyrian tribes weren't genetically identical.

We aren't identical not even today. We have a north to south cline. I am south.

[Bosniensis]

It would be interesting to see here results of ancient sample from Monrenegro who is the closest to modern Russians and Ukrainians.

it was a female I think, probably a slave. They had a lot of slavic slaves.

[Pribislav]

it was a female I think, probably a slave. They had a lot of slavic slaves.

Lol, Sinan.

Sample is over 3000 years old. There was no Slavs in that time.

[Bosniensis]

Lol, Sinan.

Sample is over 3000 years old.

So what do you wanna say: That people of Smolensk emerged in Dalmatia?

[Hulu]

It would be interesting to see here results of ancient sample from Monrenegro who is the closest to modern Russians and Ukrainians.

I'm sure you heard this many times already but it was a sample of low quality.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

If you remove Slavs from the equation, then this guy completes the gap between North Italy and Albania in a region currently inhabited by Slavs.

Brilliant observation mate.

[Bosniensis]

Brilliant observation mate.

That's what Peterski said as well and I agree as well.

[Pribislav]

I'm sure you heard this many times already but it was a sample of low quality.

Same we can say for Bronze Age sample from Dalmatia and ancient woman from Bulgaria.

Russian/Ukrainian genetically alike sample from Montenegro was proto-Illyrian.
Proto-Illyrians came from Pontic stepe and it's normal that Russians and Ukrainians are closest to them of modern populations.

[Bosniensis]

Same we can say for Bronze Age sample from Dalmatia and ancient woman from Bulgaria.

Russian/Ukrainian genetically alike sample from Montenegro was proto-Illyrian.
Proto-Illyrians came from Pontic stepe and it's normal that Russians and Ukrainians are closest to them of modern populations.

I disagree Illyrians came from Greece and Anatolia, that's what I've read. FFS you have entire mythology about Illyrians (Pithian Games, Thessaly etc..) they participated in Pan-Hellenic games.
Illyrians MUST have been close to Greeks or some other paleo-balkan people.

Modern Pontic Steppe people are from Far East where original R1a has been located, Pontic Steppe used to be Cimmerian (those fled in Anatolia)

[Peterski]

That sample from Montenegro was VERY low quality.

[Hulu]

Same we can say for Bronze Age sample from Dalmatia and ancient woman from Bulgaria.

Russian/Ukrainian genetically alike sample from Montenegro was proto-Illyrian.
Proto-Illyrians came from Pontic stepe and it's normal that Russians and Ukrainians are closest to them of modern populations.

These samples lack steppe, they are western shifted. They would have retained some if your theory was true.

[Hulu]

That sample from Montenegro was VERY low quality.

Thank you.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Same we can say for Bronze Age sample from Dalmatia and ancient woman from Bulgaria.

Russian/Ukrainian genetically alike sample from Montenegro was proto-Illyrian.
Proto-Illyrians came from Pontic stepe and it's normal that Russians and Ukrainians are closest to them of modern populations.

No, man you're trolling now. These samples are much higher quality than Montenegro, it's not comparable.
It's obvious that Montenegrin had nonsensical results that don't fit with any other IE southern euro results, these look legit on the other hand.

Try to supress your hatred towards Albanians once in your life and be objective.

[Pribislav]

These samples lack steppe, they are western shifted. They would have retained some if your theory was true.

Ancient sample from Montenegro is the closest to Russians and Ukrainians.
Are Russians and Ukrainians western shifted?

[lonewolfcypriot]

it seems like pre Slavic balkanites were similar to modern day italics

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

These samples lack steppe, they are western shifted. They would have retained some if your theory was true.

They have steppe girl, but western Euro kind of steppe. Study clearly said that. Not every steppe is eastern shifted. If they didn't have it they would cluster with Sardinians.

[Pribislav]

No, man you're trolling now. These samples are much higher quality than Montenegro, it's not comparable.

Interesting how older sample has higher quality than younger one.

To Albanian ears fact that proto-Illyrians were genetically like Ruskie is painfully, but what is with you? Ancient sample from Montenegro is more northern shifted than you, deal with it!

[Bosniensis]

Interesting how older sample has higher quality than younger one.

To Albanian ears fact that proto-Illyrians were genetically like Ruskie is painfully, but what is with you? Ancient sample from Montenegro is more northern shifted than you, deal with it!

Oh come on man leave it out... we are foreigners so what, we murdered those with OP samples, it's our territory for 1500 years.. they will never get it back!

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Interesting how older sample has higher quality than younger one.

To Albanian ears fact that proto-Illyrians were genetically like Ruskie is painfully, but what is with you? Ancient sample from Montenegro is more northern shifted than you, deal with it!

Go trolling with conspiracy theories elsewhere. I don't care about Montenegrin sample because it's not reliable due to low quality.

Thread is about Bronze Age Dalmatian. Open thread about Montenegrin if you want, I am not interested.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

And fuck whoever allowed Bosniensis subhumanity and ape like IQ back to pollute TA. Fucking Balkan degenerates, it's not strange why are you so poor and primitive even today.
even genetic discussion can't be free of politics and propaganda for you.

[Bosniensis]

And fuck whoever allowed Bosniensis subhumanity and ape like IQ back to pollute TA. Fucking Balkan degenerates, it's not strange why are you so poor and primitive even today.
even genetic discussion can't be free of politics and propaganda for you.

You have problems man..

Have you found yourself a pussy?

Enjoy the life...

[Dick]

:popcorn:

[Hulu]

And fuck whoever allowed Bosniensis subhumanity and ape like IQ back to pollute TA. Fucking Balkan degenerates, it's not strange why are you so poor and primitive even today.
even genetic discussion can't be free of politics and propaganda for you.

Leave Bosniensis alone.

Anyway, what went wrong with Serbs? I see all slavs are red pilled (including Poles, thank you Peterski) except for them.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Leave Bosniensis alone.

Anyway, what went wrong with Serbs? I see all slavs are red pilled except for them.

I don't want to see him and Pribislav ruin every decent genetic thread with conspiracy theories and propaganda. It's just too much and extremely annoying. Don't have problem with any other Serb otherwise.
Looking forward to see DNA Land results of this sample, Peterski probably uploaded him.

[Bosniensis]

I don't want to see him and Pribislav ruin every decent genetic thread with conspiracy theories and propaganda. It's just too much. Don't have problem with any other Serb otherwise.
Looking forward to see DNA Land results of this sample, Peterski probably uploaded him.

I am here 5+ years and I have ruined thousands of threads, why do you think yours are special?

[Hulu]

I am here 5+ years and I have ruined thousands of threads, why do you think yours are special?

I wouldn't say ruined, enriched it's the right word :)

[Dick]

Leave Bosniensis alone.

Anyway, what went wrong with Serbs? I see all slavs are red pilled (including Poles, thank you Peterski) except for them.
What do you mean?

[Kaspias]

I am here 5+ years and I have ruined thousands of threads, why do you think yours are special?

LMAO

[Ayetooey]

Very different to the "Thracian" sample. This one is as northern as Romanians lmao; that one is as southern as Abruzzo.

[Ayetooey]

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 4.5 cM (0.126 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

283459 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.718 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Bosniensis]

Peterski is hiding all those Slavic Bronze Age Balkan samples and showing us only non-slavic cause he want to make us all feel Polish!!!!!

[Ayetooey]

Peterski is hiding all those Slavic Bronze Age Balkan samples and showing us only non-slavic cause he want to make us all feel Polish!!!!!

I don't see whats wrong with this sample exactly. It's north as fuck and I'm surprised it's not being mentioned more, it's as north as Romanians; it's almost as Northern as you bro. :L

Miles apart between the "Thracian" sample from Bulgaria and this one; shows the region wasn't all the same.

Do you match with it? I don't want to be the only ancient Dalmatian here.

[Bosniensis]

I don't see whats wrong with this sample exactly. It's north as fuck and I'm surprised it's not being mentioned more, it's as north as Romanians; it's almost as Northern as you bro. :L

Miles apart between the "Thracian" sample from Bulgaria and this one; shows the region wasn't all the same.

Do you match with it? I don't want to be the only ancient Dalmatian here.

Nope no segments here.

I don't think that 16.00 is "close" as far as Romanians are concerned... my distance to OP sample would be .... hmm 19.00

I still think that some Slavic migrations really boosted Baltic admixture a lot... but we need more samples :P

[Ayetooey]

Nope no segments here.

I don't think that 10.00 is "close" as far as Romanians are concerned... my distance to OP sample would be .... hmm 13.00

I still think that some Slavic migrations really boosted Baltic admixture a lot... but we need more samples :P

It's obviously no where near Romanians. I mean it's as Northern as Romania is on the PCA, it isn't down by Abruzzo or Tuscany.

And yes, more samples.

[Bosniensis]

It's obviously no where near Romanians. I mean it's as Northern as Romania is on the PCA, it isn't down by Abruzzo or Tuscany.

And yes, more samples.

I would like to see Iron Age samples from Timisoara, Belgrade and Romanian territories.

10 of those would be enough to Judge Thracian identity.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Do you match with it? I don't want to be the only ancient Dalmatian here.

I match him too.

Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 11.3 cM (0.316 Pct)

3 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Ayetooey]

I match him too.

Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 11.3 cM (0.316 Pct)

3 shared segments found for this comparison.

https://media.giphy.com/media/FjeGBljESVAzu/200.gif

[Dick]

I'm not matching this one or the Bulgarian woman

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I got many kits some including TA members (guess who gave them to me) but I can't disclose this information without their approval.

There is Romanian Apricity member brutally matching this Dalmatian, shares enourmous segments with him. That's all you can know until now.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It would be useful if Albanians check do they match this dude or not also.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Lol Ayetooney say Romanian has EXTREME MATCH with BA Dalmatian.

Here is it:


Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 101.3 cM (2.832 Pct)

26 shared segments found for this comparison.

84697 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.036 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This can fuel theory about West Balkan origin of Romanians I would say. His match is much stronger than any South Slav, not even comparable.

[Ayetooey]

This can fuel theory about West Balkan origin of Romanians I would say. His match is much stronger than any South Slav, not even comparable.

Bruv, has this dude/dudette altered the minimum SNP, or is this with default just with lowered CM like us. If I alter the SNP numbers I get this, but it doesn't mean much at that point.

Largest segment = 5.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 414.9 cM (11.582 Pct)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Bruv, has this dude/dudette altered the minimum SNP, or is this with default just with lowered CM like us. If I alter the SNP numbers I get this, but it doesn't mean much at that point.

Largest segment = 5.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 414.9 cM (11.582 Pct)

I ran him just like I ran myself. Didn't alter SNP number at all.

[Ford]

I ran him just like I ran myself. Didn't alter SNP number at all.

How large are the matching segments?

[Ayetooey]

I ran him just like I ran myself. Didn't alter SNP number at all.

Interesting.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

How large are the matching segments?

How to see that ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Btw I was in war with that motherfucka :laugh:

Anyway, most South Slavs match this dude at least Croat kits I got , but not nearly as much as him.

[Dick]

Btw I was in war with that motherfucka :laugh:

You're in war with mostly everyone xD

[Ford]

How to see that ?

You should be able to see how large each matching segment is and the number of SNPs for each chromosome is if you do the one-to-one autosomal comparison on gedmatch.

[Pribislav]

This can fuel theory about West Balkan origin of Romanians I would say. His match is much stronger than any South Slav, not even comparable.

Vlach ancestors of Romanians arrived from Thrace 12-14th century. When they came to modern Romania they mixed with Slavs and Cumans.
Western Balkan Latin speakers were speakers of different branch of Romance languages than Romanians, Aromanians and Megleno-Vlachs. Western Balkan Latin speakers were speakers Italo-Dalmatian branch, and Romanian belong to Eastern Romance branch.
Proto Eastern Romance (ancestor of Romanian, Aromanian and Meglenitic) was formed in Shopluk (western Bulgaria, southeastern Serbia and northeastern N. Macedonia).

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You should be able to see how large each matching segment is and the number of SNPs for each chromosome is if you do the one-to-one autosomal comparison on gedmatch.

I see lot of shit man, but don't know how to read it. Images look like fucking rainbow, how the hell am I suposed to read it ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You're in war with mostly everyone xD

Man, don't give a fuck, I'll name him he should be honored anyway. It's that nigga Impaler.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Vlach ancestors of Romanians arrived from Thrace 12-14th century. When they came to modern Romania they mixed with Slavs and Cumans.
Western Balkan Latin speakers were speakers of different branch of Romance languages than Romanians, Aromanians and Megleno-Vlachs. Western Balkan Latin speakers were speakers Italo-Dalmatian branch, and Romanian belong to Eastern Romance branch.
Proto Eastern Romance (ancestor of Romanian, Aromanian and Meglenitic) was formed in Shopluk (western Bulgaria, southeastern Serbia and northeastern N. Macedonia).

Whatever you say man, dude got strong match with Bronze Age Dalmatian and he's from Wallachia.

[Ford]

I see lot of shit man, but don't know how to read it. Images look like fucking rainbow, how the hell am I suposed to read it ?
This is me matching with myself. Above each chromosome pair you can see the amount of matched data.
https://i.imgur.com/LhebYzp.png

[Kaspias]

No shared DNA segments found

[CommonSense]

I set the minimum threshold to 1 cM and still got:

No shared DNA segments found

278998 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.306 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.038 cpu seconds.

[Hulu]

Lol Ayetooney say Romanian has EXTREME MATCH with BA Dalmatian.

Here is it:


Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 101.3 cM (2.832 Pct)

26 shared segments found for this comparison.

84697 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.036 Pct SNPs are full identical


Did you adjust any of the tabs for this? Lowest segment etc

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This is me matching with myself. Above each chromosome pair you can see the amount of matched data.

Will screenshot it.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Did you adjust any of the tabs for this? Lowest segment etc

I adjusted to 3 CM just like for myself and other kits I ran he still score much more genetic similarity. What about you ?

[Voskos]

I wish i had a gedmatch id to check if I match this ancient Šiptar.

[Bosniensis]

Post modern K15 of that Romanian we never heard of.... we know all TA Romanians ffs

[Hulu]

I got this. Some north Albanians should try this.

Largest segment = 2.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 3.9 cM (0.109 Pct)

2 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Dick]

I set the minimum threshold to 1 cM and still got:

No shared DNA segments found

278998 SNPs used for this comparison.

Comparison took 0.306 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.038 cpu seconds.

I tried 50 Snps x 1cm=


Largest segment = 4.4 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 435.4 cM (12.156 Pct)

298 shared segments found for this comparison.

281712 SNPs used for this comparison.

[Ayetooey]

https://i0.wp.com/about-history.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Emperor-Diocletian-and-the-Period-of-Dominate.jpg?fit=900%2C500&ssl=1

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Post modern K15 of that Romanian we never heard of.... we know all TA Romanians ffs

He's TA member ask him yourself. I'm not posting anything, got a beef with that dude.

[Pribislav]

Whatever you say man, dude got strong match with Bronze Age Dalmatian and he's from Wallachia.

So what? He is only one indivudual.

Migration of people who spoke language as in this video from Dalmatia towards the Romania was not recorded in history.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJSk12qgZM&t=1s

Genes of Latin Dalmatians live in Western Balkan Slavs, mostly in coastal and islander Dalmatians.
Far paternal ancestors of Croatian user Max Soldo were most likely speakers of Dalmatian language.

[Bosniensis]

He's TA member ask him yourself. I'm not posting anything, got a beef with that dude.

What is his name...

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This is me matching with myself. Above each chromosome pair you can see the amount of matched data.

Looks like this I'm lazy to do it for all cromosomes

https://i.imgur.com/q1CM0Ee.png

[Bosniensis]

https://i0.wp.com/about-history.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Emperor-Diocletian-and-the-Period-of-Dominate.jpg?fit=900%2C500&ssl=1

Great man, people have no idea how much he contributed to modern history... reinvented economy, politics, military organisation... everything.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

What is his name...

Impaler.

[Hulu]

I tried 50 Snps x 1cm=


Largest segment = 4.4 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 435.4 cM (12.156 Pct)

298 shared segments found for this comparison.

281712 SNPs used for this comparison.

50 snps 1 cm

Largest segment = 4.2 cM

Total segments = 29.2 cM (15.452 Pct)

13 shared segments found for this comparison.

6970 SNPs used for this comparison.

That was the X version :D

This is what I get

Largest segment = 7.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.3 cM (12.317 Pct)

294 shared segments found for this comparison.

286184 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.576 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Moje ime]

Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 5.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.

Largest segment = 6.0 cM

Total segments = 6.0 cM (3.140 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

6090 SNPs used for this comparison.



This is what I get for SZ6386770 (I3313 Dalmatia Bronze Age). Works only with 50 SNPs.

[Bosniensis]

Impaler.

He has more Eastern results than Serbs, even some Turkic DNA... interesting.

[Ayetooey]

I think lowering the SNP amount is meaningless really. With default.

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 4.5 cM (0.126 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

With 50 SNP.

Largest segment = 5.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.2 cM (12.317 Pct)

298 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Bosniensis]

50 snps 1 cm

Largest segment = 4.2 cM

Total segments = 29.2 cM (15.452 Pct)

13 shared segments found for this comparison.

6970 SNPs used for this comparison.

That was the X version :D

This is what I get

Largest segment = 7.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.3 cM (12.317 Pct)

294 shared segments found for this comparison.

286184 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.576 Pct SNPs are full identical


Told you, in Bronze Age Dalmatia was called Daljmatija. xD

[Dick]

Impaler.

Lol why him? he seems like a nice guy. You're too funny dude.

[Moje ime]

50 snps 1 cm

Largest segment = 4.2 cM

Total segments = 29.2 cM (15.452 Pct)

13 shared segments found for this comparison.

6970 SNPs used for this comparison.

That was the X version :D

This is what I get

Largest segment = 7.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.3 cM (12.317 Pct)

294 shared segments found for this comparison.

286184 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.576 Pct SNPs are full identical


Screenshot or didn't happen.

[Dick]

shots fired.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Lol why him? he seems like a nice guy. You're too funny dude.

He attacked me for something, don't remember what. Actually I do, said I look sissy or something along these lines xD

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Screenshot or didn't happen.

wtf ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 5.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.

Largest segment = 6.0 cM

Total segments = 6.0 cM (3.140 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

6090 SNPs used for this comparison.



This is what I get for SZ6386770 (I3313 Dalmatia Bronze Age). Works only with 50 SNPs.

You broke Serboi dreams of Kavkazian slave descent, congrats.

[Ayetooey]

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.3 cM (12.317 Pct)


[/B]
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.2 cM (12.317 Pct)

Creepy.

[Impaler]

Whatever you say man, dude got strong match with Bronze Age Dalmatian and he's from Wallachia.

Are you fucking serious? Hahah

[Bosniensis]

Are you fucking serious? Hahah

26 segments is too much, he must have been your distant ancestor.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Are you fucking serious? Hahah

Yeah, I got your kit dude because Jana uploaded you to gedmatch genesis just like she did with my kit.

[Impaler]

Yeah, I got your kit dude because Jana uploaded you to gedmatch genesis just like she did with my kit.

Yeah, I know it. She was a nice girl and she always helped me with GEDmatch.

[Voskos]

So was he Gheg or Tosk?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Yeah, I know it. She was a nice girl and she always helped me with GEDmatch.

You share a lot with this Illyrian mate. Paleo Balkan stronk.

[Bosniensis]

Well we can confirm that nobody sang "Srpska mi truba zatrubi iz toga sela Drenova" 1000 B.C. in Dalmatia.

[Hulu]

Screenshot or didn't happen.

lol :rolleyes:

https://imgur.com/a/8c9xzKs

[Dick]

Well we can confirm that nobody sang "Srpska mi truba zatrubi iz toga sela Drenova" 1000 B.C. in Dalmatia.

Drenovo is in ancient Macedonia though

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drenovo_(%C4%8Ca%C5%A1ka)



Selo Drenovo ušlo je u istoriju srpskog naroda po bici, tzv. Bici kod Drenova, koja se vodila na Spasovdan 1907. između srpskih četa vojvode Vasilija Trbića, Jovana Babunskog, seoskih četnika iz sela Bogomila i Tehovo protiv bugaraškog sela Drenova, u kojem su bile nastanjeni bugarski komiti vojvode Dača iz Bistrice i Stevana Dimitrovskog-Vardarca iz sela Gradsko. Stevan Dimitrov je bio poznat po zločinima i maltretiranju Srba u lokalnim selima.[1] Porazom i uništavanjem bugarske čete, bugarski komiti su proterani iz zapadnog Povardarja.

[Ayetooey]

lol :rolleyes:

https://imgur.com/a/8c9xzKs

I also like Armin Van Buuren.

[Bosniensis]

Drenovo is in ancient Macedonia though

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drenovo_(%C4%8Ca%C5%A1ka)

Yeah Serbo - Bulgarian wars were tough. So much lives wasted.

[Freeroostah]

Ancient Thracians/Illyrians were closer to Greeks,Albanians, and Italians than Modern day Bulgarians/Romanians/Serbs

[Bosniensis]

Ancient Thracians/Illyrians were closer to Greeks,Albanians, and Italians than Modern day Bulgarians/Romanians/Serbs

Even Turks are more Paleo-Anadolian than we are Paleo-Balkan. 16.00 Romanian is very distant. I was expecting Romania in top 5.

[Max Soldo]

I'm not getting anything when comparing my kit to this one on GEDMATCH.

[Bosniensis]

I'm not getting anything when comparing my kit to this one on GEDMATCH.

Toni has 100505 segments:


https://youtu.be/P4B4SvOtI0g

[Aspirin]

Migration of people who spoke language as in this video from Dalmatia towards the Romania was not recorded in history.


Migration of Vlachs to today Romania was not recorded too. :rolleyes:

[Impaler]

Some guy has requested my K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.45
2 North_Sea 15.36
3 Atlantic 14.46
4 Baltic 11.56
5 West_Asian 11.07
6 West_Med 9.46
7 Eastern_Euro 7.23
8 South_Asian 5.98
9 Red_Sea 1.39
10 Siberian 1.15
11 Sub-Saharan 1.06
12 Southeast_Asian 0.84

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.23
2 Romanian 9.37
3 Greek_Thessaly 9.72
4 Greek 10.93
5 Serbian 11.6
6 Italian_Abruzzo 12.71
7 Ashkenazi 12.99
8 Tuscan 13.64
9 Central_Greek 13.68
10 East_Sicilian 14.39
11 West_Sicilian 14.42
12 North_Italian 16.34
13 Moldavian 16.51
14 South_Italian 16.54
15 Austrian 17.44
16 Hungarian 17.64
17 Croatian 18.41
18 Italian_Jewish 19.98
19 Sephardic_Jewish 20.51
20 French 21.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60% East_German + 40% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.65
2 65.4% Austrian + 34.6% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.85
3 65.2% Hungarian + 34.8% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.98
4 66.2% Austrian + 33.8% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.03
5 75.9% Serbian + 24.1% Iranian_Jewish @ 6.06
6 60.4% East_German + 39.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.06
7 60.9% East_German + 39.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.2
8 65.9% Austrian + 34.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.23
9 61.4% Hungarian + 38.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.24
10 66.1% Hungarian + 33.9% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.3
11 51.3% Cyprian + 48.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 6.31
12 56.1% East_German + 43.9% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.34
13 65.7% Hungarian + 34.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.36
14 61.8% Austrian + 38.2% Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.4
15 76.5% Serbian + 23.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.41
16 64% South_Italian + 36% Finnish @ 6.42
17 76.9% Serbian + 23.1% Kurdish_Jewish @ 6.44
18 64.7% Austrian + 35.3% Assyrian @ 6.46
19 60.6% Hungarian + 39.4% Cyprian @ 6.53
20 82.4% Romanian + 17.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 6.56


4-Ancestors

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Bulgarian @ 10.410006
2 Romanian @ 10.678302
3 Greek_Thessaly @ 10.752439
4 Greek @ 12.297381
5 Serbian @ 13.412076
6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 14.348274
7 Ashkenazi @ 14.596566
8 Tuscan @ 15.260939
9 Central_Greek @ 15.507915
10 East_Sicilian @ 16.244673
11 West_Sicilian @ 16.326775
12 North_Italian @ 18.496702
13 South_Italian @ 18.940866
14 Moldavian @ 19.218868
15 Austrian @ 20.373644
16 Hungarian @ 20.574768
17 Croatian @ 21.418619
18 Italian_Jewish @ 22.810547
19 Sephardic_Jewish @ 23.491188
20 Algerian_Jewish @ 24.403238

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Southwest_Finnish @ 6.950079


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Hungarian +25% Iranian_Jewish +25% West_Sicilian @ 5.669558


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++
1 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cataluna + Turkmen @ 4.937072
2 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Valencia + Turkmen @ 5.113543
3 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + Turkmen @ 5.115147
4 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cantabria + Turkmen @ 5.142955
5 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon + Turkmen @ 5.170144
6 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Southwest_French + Turkmen @ 5.185722
7 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian + Iranian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.280100
8 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Murcia + Turkmen @ 5.281090
9 Afghan_Uzbeki + Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Valencia @ 5.281140
10 Afghan_Uzbeki + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.298117
11 Afghan_Tadjik + Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Valencia @ 5.324351
12 Estonian + Iranian + Italian_Jewish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.334054
13 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian + French + Kurdish @ 5.346928
14 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian + French + Iranian @ 5.364188
15 Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Spanish_Cataluna + Turkmen @ 5.364834
16 Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Portuguese + Turkmen @ 5.369460
17 Afghan_Uzbeki + Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.387780
18 Afghan_Uzbeki + Lebanese_Druze + South_Polish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.392883
19 Afghan_Uzbeki + Estonian + Lebanese_Druze + Spanish_Aragon @ 5.408109
20 Afghan_Tadjik + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 5.412361

[Bosniensis]

Some guy has requested my K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 20.45
2 North_Sea 15.36
3 Atlantic 14.46
4 Baltic 11.56
5 West_Asian 11.07
6 West_Med 9.46
7 Eastern_Euro 7.23
8 South_Asian 5.98
9 Red_Sea 1.39
10 Siberian 1.15
11 Sub-Saharan 1.06
12 Southeast_Asian 0.84

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 9.23
2 Romanian 9.37
3 Greek_Thessaly 9.72
4 Greek 10.93


We are not that Different: This is mine: It makes no sense that you are Related to that Dalmatian sample, and I .. or any other Serb / Croat to be completely unrelated, look at Admixture it's very similar.

It's just that you HIT your probable ancestor xD



1 Baltic 17.96
2 North_Sea 16.35
3 Atlantic 15.67
4 Eastern_Euro 13.32
5 West_Med 12.61
6 East_Med 11.78
7 West_Asian 8.06
8 Red_Sea 1.75
9 South_Asian 1.63
10 Northeast_African 0.56
11 Southeast_Asian 0.18
12 Oceanian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 3.96
2 Romanian 4.98
3 Moldavian 5.94
4 Bulgarian 7.08
5 Croatian 7.42

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

We are not that Different: This is mine: It makes no sense that you are Related to that Dalmatian sample, and I .. or any other Serb / Croat to be completely unrelated, look at Admixture it's very similar.

Speak in your name dumbass, only you aren't matching this sample I am matching him like all other Croats I tested but much less than Impaler.

[Pubiczar]

Largest segment = 11.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 230.7 cM (6.448 Pct)

72 shared segments found for this comparison.

84319 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.648 Pct SNPs are full identical

[War Chef]

Some guy has requested my K15:

Admix Results (sorted):



I'm also similar to you, with Bulgarian/Romanian as my top.

Population
North_Sea 14.30
Atlantic 10.57
Baltic 16.62
Eastern_Euro 12.05
West_Med 5.83
West_Asian 26.57
East_Med 10.34
Red_Sea 0.58
South_Asian 0.63
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 1.74
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.49
Northeast_African 0.20
Sub-Saharan 0.07


1 Romanian 15.68
2 Bulgarian 16.32
3 Moldavian 17.54
4 Serbian 18.08
5 Kumyk 19.23
6 Croatian 20.06
7 Lezgin 20.33
8 Tabassaran 20.58
9 Greek_Thessaly 20.85
10 Nogay 21
11 Hungarian 21.11
12 Kabardin 21.17
13 Greek 21.25
14 Austrian 21.66
15 Chechen 21.68
16 Balkar 22.46
17 Ukrainian_Lviv 23.27
18 Tatar 23.33
19 Adygei 23.35
20 Italian_Abruzzo 23.39

But way more eastern-shifted, probably similar to Byzantines.

[Impaler]

Largest segment = 11.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 230.7 cM (6.448 Pct)

72 shared segments found for this comparison.

84319 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.648 Pct SNPs are full identical

You have more than me? :)

[Pubiczar]

Ancient Thracians/Illyrians were closer to Greeks,Albanians, and Italians than Modern day Bulgarians/Romanians/Serbs

That's bulshit Greco.
Go compare yourself with your Mycenaeans instead...

[Pubiczar]

You have more than me? :)

Well that's what it shows to me.
How much did you get?

[Impaler]

Well that's what it shows to me.
How much did you get?

Ask Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić. He did it for me. I just seen around 101 cM segments. You have more than double.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Stears match this sample also:

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 28.1 cM (0.783 Pct)

8 shared segments found for this comparison.

245468 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.214 Pct SNPs are full identical

We wuz Magyars in Dalmatia xD

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Ask Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić. He did it for me. I just seen around 101 cM segments. You have more than double.

Yeah ***** has most I think. Make sense, he is genetically very Balkan.

[Pubiczar]

It might be that Macedonians and Romanians have Illyrian ancestry and the Albanians Thracian.
That would be funny :rolleyes:

[Peterski]

DNA Land results: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279860-Bronze-Age-Balkan-DNA-Land-Ancestry-Report

[dosas]

Using *****'s instructions, I get:

Dalmatian:


Largest segment = 3.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 412.8 cM (11.524 Pct)

290 shared segments found for this comparison.

279100 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.258 Pct SNPs are full identical.

[xripkan]

My comparison results:
Largest segment = 9.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 288.6 cM (8.066 Pct)

105 shared segments found for this comparison.

84702 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.972 Pct SNPs are full identical

[xripkan]

I find very possible the fact that this individual was related with Late Bronze age Urnfield culture. It covered Central Europe, northwestern Balkans, North Italy and North Spain. It is considered Proto-Celtic. This explains why this result is close to North Italy and Spain.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Distances:

Balkans_BA, I3313 @ 0
Italian_Bergamo_Averaged, Averaged @ 2.691
Italian_Bergamo, HGDP01153 @ 2.787
Italian_Bergamo, S_Bergamo-1 @ 3.096
Italian_Bergamo, HGDP01151 @ 3.149
Maros_Averaged, Averaged @ 3.179
Italian_Bergamo, HGDP01155 @ 3.241
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL36 @ 3.333
Balkans_BA, I4331 @ 3.342
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ28 @ 3.398
Italian_Bergamo, HGDP01147 @ 3.558
Balkans_BA_Averaged, Averaged @ 3.599
Hungary_BA, I7041 @ 3.623
Scythian_Hungary, DA198 @ 3.626
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL23 @ 3.712
Italian_Bergamo, HGDP01152 @ 3.779
French, French33 @ 3.863
Italian_Tuscan, NA20505 @ 3.87
Italian_Tuscan, NA20502 @ 3.881
Beaker_Italy_North_Averaged, Averaged @ 3.882
Italian_Tuscan_Averaged, Averaged @ 3.915
Beaker_Bavaria, I5524 @ 3.936
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ43 @ 3.975
Italian_Tuscan, NA20508 @ 4.009
Hungary_BA, I7043 @ 4.01
Albanian, S_Albanian-1 @ 4.12
Maros, RISE374 @ 4.143
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP11 @ 4.177
Albanian, ALB212 @ 4.19
Beaker_Bavaria, E09538 @ 4.205
Spanish_Baleares_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.217
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ37 @ 4.236
Romanian, G421 @ 4.237
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP8 @ 4.26
Albanian_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.272
Spanish_Valencia, HG01607 @ 4.277
Germany_Medieval_ACD, NW_54 @ 4.312
Greek, NA17373 @ 4.326
Macedonian, Macedonian8 @ 4.339
Albanian, ALB230 @ 4.364
Vucedol_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.372
Vucedol, I3499 @ 4.372
Spanish_Baleares, HG01625 @ 4.387
Spanish_Baleares, HG01613 @ 4.417
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL94 @ 4.448
Spanish_Andalucia, HG01619 @ 4.451
Bulgarian, BulgarianD6 @ 4.48
Greek, S_Greek-1 @ 4.497
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ36 @ 4.499
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP13 @ 4.531
Balkans_BA, I4332 @ 4.535
Spanish_Valencia_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.595
Spanish_Andalucia_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.596
Spanish_Baleares, HG01615 @ 4.607
Italian_Tuscan, NA20506 @ 4.628
Spanish_Valencia, HG01605 @ 4.633
Greek_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.637
Greek, NA17377 @ 4.654
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.666
Maros, RISE373 @ 4.719
Beaker_Czech, I4885 @ 4.762
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP14 @ 4.765
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ32 @ 4.784
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP18 @ 4.802
French, French67 @ 4.828
Turkish_Istanbul, Istanbul25098 @ 4.854
Spanish_Cataluna, HG01537 @ 4.888
Hungary_BA_Averaged, Averaged @ 4.902
Spanish_Andalucia, HG01620 @ 4.918
Spanish_Murcia, HG01699 @ 4.929
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, HG01746 @ 4.947
Albanian, ALB213 @ 4.955
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo16 @ 4.961
Albanian, ALB202 @ 4.963
Custom, AGUser_MassamToulouse @ 4.979
French, French36 @ 4.994
Custom, AGUser_Rabai @ 5.008
Spanish_Aragon_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.023
Custom, AGUser_flscolari @ 5.023
French, French20 @ 5.031
Romanian, A343 @ 5.036
Beaker_Bavaria, I3594 @ 5.053
French_East, French24124 @ 5.069
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, HG01503 @ 5.079
Custom, AGUser_Fabiola @ 5.105
Beaker_Italy_North, I2478 @ 5.106
Italian_South, ITS7 @ 5.11
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP4 @ 5.117
Italian_Abruzzo_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.131
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP15 @ 5.134
French, French46 @ 5.14
Spanish_Murcia_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.144
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP9 @ 5.147
Spanish_Cantabria, HG01679 @ 5.148
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL57 @ 5.164
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo15 @ 5.169
Balkans_BA, I2165 @ 5.196
Spanish_Aragon, HG01673 @ 5.196
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, HG02238 @ 5.2
Custom, AGUser_TeneTana @ 5.214
French, French4 @ 5.216
Spanish_Cantabria_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.223
Spanish_Cataluna_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.225
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP16 @ 5.226
Spanish_Aragon, HG01678 @ 5.243
Italian_Tuscan, NA20504 @ 5.252
Portuguese, Portugal9 @ 5.255
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo19 @ 5.279
Custom, AGUser_Dibran @ 5.28
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL47 @ 5.281
Spanish_Cantabria, HG01513 @ 5.282
Spanish_Andalucia, HG01623 @ 5.285
Custom, AGUser_Ferreira @ 5.294
French, French22 @ 5.296
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo14 @ 5.314
Bulgarian_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.314
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha, HG01504 @ 5.317
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP3 @ 5.324
Portuguese_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.336
Albanian, ALB220 @ 5.359
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo23 @ 5.371
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.38
Beaker_Hungary, I2364 @ 5.384
Spanish_Aragon, HG01676 @ 5.386
Beaker_Bavaria, I5520 @ 5.398
Bulgarian, BulgarianH2 @ 5.404
Spanish_Extremadura_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.404
Romanian_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.407
Sicilian_West, WestSicilian10H @ 5.411
Beaker_Bavaria, I5017 @ 5.424
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP5 @ 5.428
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo21 @ 5.436
Scythian_Moldova, scy197 @ 5.452
German, German66 @ 5.458
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_o1, SZ19 @ 5.466
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_o1_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.466
Spanish_Extremadura, HG01510 @ 5.467
Spanish_Valencia, HG01606 @ 5.48
Germany_Roman, FN_2 @ 5.483
Germany_Roman_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.483
Germany_Medieval_ACD, STR_310 @ 5.492
Italy_Medieval_Collegno, CL121 @ 5.495
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon, HG01500 @ 5.498
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ45 @ 5.499
Portuguese, Portugal12 @ 5.504
French, French7 @ 5.508
French_East, French24148 @ 5.509
Macedonian_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.529
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ18 @ 5.533
Spanish_Extremadura, HG01509 @ 5.553
French, French13 @ 5.573
French, French9 @ 5.58
Montenegrin, Montenegro6 @ 5.584
Spanish_Galicia, HG01704 @ 5.587
Romanian, G428 @ 5.596
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo22 @ 5.603
Romanian, G429 @ 5.605
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad, SZ27 @ 5.614
French, French40 @ 5.624
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon, HG01506 @ 5.627
Serbian, Serbian_Serbia4 @ 5.627
Custom, AGUser_Massam_father @ 5.648
French, French48 @ 5.66
Romanian, A325 @ 5.679
Spanish_Cantabria, HG01512 @ 5.686
Custom, AGUser_bigl @ 5.687
Portuguese, Portugal1 @ 5.694
Austrian, Austria10 @ 5.716
Portuguese, Portugal7 @ 5.719
Albanian, ALB191 @ 5.728
French_South, SouthFrench3947 @ 5.735
Custom, AGUser_Alstrohma_Wright @ 5.756
Portuguese, Portugal8 @ 5.757
Custom, AGUser_Massam @ 5.759
French, French59 @ 5.775
Portuguese, Portugal15 @ 5.777
Spanish_Pais_Vasco, HG01518 @ 5.78
Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon, HG01501 @ 5.784
Macedonian, Macedonian6 @ 5.793
Spanish_Murcia, HG01617 @ 5.794
Spanish_Cataluna, HG01761 @ 5.796
Custom, AGUser_Eihwaz @ 5.809
French_South, SouthFrench1112 @ 5.815
Spanish_Extremadura, HG01527 @ 5.815
Beaker_Bavaria, I3590 @ 5.826
Portuguese, Portugal13 @ 5.827
French, French35 @ 5.835
French_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.838
Custom, AGUser_Koolmets @ 5.839
German, German2 @ 5.84
French, French55 @ 5.842
Custom, AGUser_conqueror_dad @ 5.843
Romanian, G408 @ 5.844
Balkans_IA_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.849
Balkans_IA, I5769 @ 5.849
Macedonian, Macedonian2 @ 5.85
Custom, AGUser_Ruderico @ 5.853
Portuguese, Portugal2 @ 5.857
Spanish_Murcia, HG01618 @ 5.861
Austrian, Austria4 @ 5.867
Portuguese, Portugal6 @ 5.873
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo20 @ 5.877
Scythian_Moldova_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.885
Bulgarian, Bulgaria1 @ 5.887
Belgian, Belgium25 @ 5.909
Serbian_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.91
Spanish_Aragon, HG01675 @ 5.914
Serbian, Serbian_Serbia2 @ 5.931
Anatolia_IA_low_res_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.933
Anatolia_IA_low_res, MA2197 @ 5.933
French_South, SouthFrench3326 @ 5.939
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP17 @ 5.946
French, French25 @ 5.963
Custom, AGUser_MatAust @ 5.97
French_East, French23919 @ 5.971
Hungary_BA, SZ1 @ 5.977
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo17 @ 5.982
Custom, AGUser_conqueror @ 5.985
Sicilian_West_Averaged, Averaged @ 5.997
Sicilian_West, WestSicilian7H @ 5.999
French_South_Averaged, Averaged @ 6.007
German, German48 @ 6.01
Montenegrin, Montenegro5 @ 6.011
Custom, AGUser_ChrisDNA @ 6.012
Montenegrin_Averaged, Averaged @ 6.03
French, French3 @ 6.038
Beaker_Italy_North, I1979 @ 6.039
Custom, AGUser_MassamNEFrench @ 6.045
Spanish_Murcia, HG01697 @ 6.067
German, German72 @ 6.068
Sicilian_East, EastSicilian2H @ 6.09
Basque_French, HGDP01364 @ 6.096
German, German53 @ 6.102
Portuguese, Portugal5 @ 6.108
Greek, NA17372 @ 6.11
Beaker_Switzerland_Averaged, Averaged @ 6.117
Italian_South_Averaged, Averaged @ 6.122
French, French1 @ 6.126
French, French62 @ 6.126
German, German5 @ 6.129
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP12 @ 6.134
Spanish_Galicia_Averaged, Averaged @ 6.144
Portuguese, Portugal14 @ 6.149
Scythian_Hungary, DA195 @ 6.158
French, French17 @ 6.16
French, French32 @ 6.18
French, French27 @ 6.181
Portuguese, Portugal10 @ 6.183
Italian_Abruzzo, ItalyAbruzzo13 @ 6.19
Romanian, A362 @ 6.194
Greek, GREEKGRALPOP10 @ 6.2

[Hulu]

Yeah ***** has most I think. Make sense, he is genetically very Balkan.


It might be that Macedonians and Romanians have Illyrian ancestry and the Albanians Thracian.
That would be funny :rolleyes:

***** gets less than me.

Me:
Largest segment = 7.0 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 441.3 cM (12.317 Pct)
294 shared segments found for this comparison.
286184 SNPs used for this comparison.
53.576 Pct SNPs are full identical

*****
Largest segment = 11.2 cM
Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 230.7 cM (6.448 Pct)
72 shared segments found for this comparison.
84319 SNPs used for this comparison.
51.648 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Peterski]

Distances: (...)

That is based on Global25?

[Thracian]

Largest segment = 3.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 445.1 cM (12.428 Pct)

298 shared segments found for this comparison.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

That is based on Global25?

Yes

[Peterski]

Here is another Bronze Age Dalmatian:

I4332 Ancient Dalmatia - kit TX8387837

It seems that Ancient Western Balkans had people similar to modern North Italians.

While Eastern Balkans had people more similar to Albanians/Greeks/South Italians.

[HungryLion]

Ancient Thracians/Illyrians were closer to Greeks,Albanians, and Italians than Modern day Bulgarians/Romanians/Serbs

Where did you find Iliryan? :eek:

Btw Bulgarians and Serbs are quite different..

[Freeroostah]

Where did you find Iliryan? :eek:

Btw Bulgarians and Serbs are quite different..

Well since ancient Thracians were Greek/Italian like I would say the same for other Paleo-Balkan peoples (more Neolithic, less HG)
Modern day Bulgarians are genetically close to Serbs and Romanians. In terms of phenotypes they are different, I agree.

[Peterski]

It seems that Ancient Western Balkans had people similar to modern North Italians.

While Eastern Balkans had people more similar to Albanians/Greeks/South Italians.

Actually I take that back - Albanians are also very similar to ancient Western Balkans. Just look at similarity maps I posted.

[HungryLion]

This one is nothing like modern Albanians though, much more western shifted and more northern than modern Bulgarian average (or North Italian). So I was right Western Balkan natives were quite more northern than those in the east.

Agree whit this...

[HungryLion]

Well since ancient Thracians were Greek/Italian like I would say the same for other Paleo-Balkan peoples (more Neolithic, less HG)
Modern day Bulgarians are genetically close to Serbs and Romanians. In terms of phenotypes they are different, I agree.

well it's also very questionable

[Adam Janossy]

:victory0:


Sample I3313, Bronze Age, 1500-900 BC (from Dalmatia)

Croatians can be modeled as a mix of this sample and modern Belgorod:

https://i.imgur.com/l3vQ8Wu.png



58.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.2% North_Italian @ 3.88

[North Sea]

Female Dalmatian mdlp world results









# Population (source) Distance
1Italian-North 3.09
2 Italian_North 5.35
3 Kosovar 6
4 Corsican 6.22
5 Provancal 7.13
6Romania 7.99
7 Swiss 8.93
8 Portugese 9.11
9Bulgarian 9.23
10Montenegrin 10.04
11 Gagauz 10.09
12 Iberian 10.36
13Macedonian 10.74
14 Spaniard 11.06
15Greek_North 11.44
16 Greek_South 11.89
17 French 12.41
18 Greek_Center 12.61
19Serbian 12.76
20 Italian-Center 13.38


Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.7% Spaniard + 18.3% Georgian_Imereti @ 1.36
2 61%Kosovar+ 39%Bulgarian@ 1.37
3 79.8% Spaniard + 20.2% Georgian_Laz @ 1.58
4 64.8%Kosovar+ 35.2%Macedonian@ 1.7
5 63.4%Kosovar+ 36.6% Gagauz @ 1.8
6 78.8% Spaniard + 21.2% Georgian @ 1.8
7 81.8% Spaniard + 18.2% Abhkasian @ 1.83
8 54% Basque + 46% Greek_Azov @ 1.92
9 65% Greek_North + 35% Basque @ 2.02
10 82.8% Iberian + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 2.2
11 63.7%Kosovar+ 36.3%Montenegrin@ 2.24
12 90.8% Italian-North + 9.2% British @ 2.31
13 85.7% Italian-North + 14.3% French @ 2.32
14 80.1% Iberian + 19.9% Georgian @ 2.33
15 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% Orcadian @ 2.33
16 91.3% Italian-North + 8.7% CEU @ 2.38
17 87.9% Italian-North + 12.1% German-South @ 2.4
18 91.9% Italian-North + 8.1% Welsh @ 2.41
19 77.9% Italian-North + 22.1% Provancal @ 2.43
20 93.1% Italian-North + 6.9% Norwegian_V @ 2.47

[North Sea]

That sample from Slavonia was way more South than this and the J2b2 but looks like I match this one pretty high

Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 302.1 cM (8.433 Pct)

214 shared segments found for this comparison.

287141 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.528 Pct SNPs are full identical



Anyone who doesnt match, I advice to put 50 snp and cm size at 1, see if you match then

[MagnusDark]

Actually I take that back - Albanians are also very similar to ancient Western Balkans. Just look at similarity maps I posted.

For an Albanian I share more segments with the Thracian sample but admixture on average with calcs is closer to the Illyrian samples.

[MagnusDark]

That sample from Slavonia was way more South than this and the J2b2 but looks like I match this one pretty high

Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 302.1 cM (8.433 Pct)

214 shared segments found for this comparison.

287141 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.528 Pct SNPs are full identical



Anyone who doesnt match, I advice to put 50 snp and cm size at 1, see if you match then

Me and my father match the Thracian segments more. Mine for comparison:
Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 282.2 cM (7.878 Pct)

195 shared segments found for this comparison.

261248 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.314 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Coastal Elite]

Old Balkan brahs from the period plot further north than most think. I bet even Dacians dudes were similar to this brah.

[MagnusDark]

Old Balkan brahs from the period plot further north than most think. I bet even Dacians dudes were similar to this brah.

Proto-Thracian and Proto-Illyrian(new arrivals) were very north shifted its true. A later Thracian and Illyrian sample however were mostly EEF and not northern shifted. Suggesting the proto groups assimilated Early European Farmers, creating the classical illyrian and thracians in historical record.

Dacians are another case. They probably are a mix of northern and southern(EEF),