NW Euro in SW Slavs ancient ?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Dalmatian Bronze Age sample can be modeled as 3/4 North Italian 1/4 Northwestern European, on DNA Land he scores 21% NW Euro, same amount like me.
I always tought NW Euro admixture in us is medieval Celtic and Germanic, but could it be it's much older than that ? BA Dalmatian could have been partly Bell Beaker.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

BA Dalmatian mixed mode Oracle:

1 78.3% North_Italian + 21.7% Southwest_English @ 1.95
2 80.2% North_Italian + 19.8% West_Scottish @ 1.99
3 80.1% North_Italian + 19.9% Irish @ 2.02
4 61% North_Italian + 39% French @ 2.17
5 79.9% North_Italian + 20.1% Orcadian @ 2.31
6 78% North_Italian + 22% Southeast_English @ 2.37
7 80.6% North_Italian + 19.4% North_Dutch @ 2.52
8 72.6% North_Italian + 27.4% South_Dutch @ 2.56
10 82.3% North_Italian + 17.7% Norwegian @ 2.69
11 80.9% North_Italian + 19.1% Danish @ 2.69
17 72.5% North_Italian + 27.5% West_German @ 2.86

https://i.imgur.com/P40rUSY.png

compare with mine, everything is virtually identical (NW Euro, Balkan score) except his huge Italian (''South-Central Euro = Italian) is replaced with Northeast Euro in my case, obviously medieval Slav blood.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2hftco1.jpg

[Mingle]

Good point. I guess its some early IE admixed sample. Possibly related to Proto-Italic or Proto-Italo-Celtic people or something like that. Not sure. At first I thought it's northern plotting made sense but then I realized ancient North Italians were said to be like modern South Italians. It's northern plotting would have made sense if it was from the late Iron Age.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Good point. I guess its some early IE admixed sample. Possibly related to Proto-Italic or Proto-Italo-Celtic people or something like that. Not sure. At first I thought it's northern plotting made sense but then I realized ancient North Italians were said to be like modern South Italians. It's northern plotting would have made sense if it was from the late Iron Age.

So ancient Dalmatians were significantly more northern than ancient North Italians ? You sure about that, bro ?

[Mingle]

So ancient Dalmatians were significantly more northern than ancient North Italians ? You sure about that, bro ?

I haven't seen BA North Italian genetics results. I think it would make sense for IA Dalmatians to plot with North Italians but this sample is quite north plotting since its BA. That could be because it came from the Steppe relatively recently but I'm not exactly sure why its so northern plotting.

[xripkan]

Dalmatian Bronze Age sample can be modeled as 3/4 North Italian 1/4 Northwestern European, on DNA Land he scores 21% NW Euro, same amount like me.
I always tought NW Euro admixture in us is medieval Celtic and Germanic, but could it be it's much older than that ? BA Dalmatian could have been partly Bell Beaker.

I wrote it at the other thread as well:
I find very possible the fact that this individual was related with Late Bronze age Urnfield culture. It covered Central Europe, northwestern Balkans, North Italy and North Spain. It is considered Proto-Celtic. This explains why this result is close to North Italy and Spain.

[Peterski]

I haven't seen BA North Italian genetics results. I think it would make sense for IA Dalmatians to plot with North Italians but this sample is quite north plotting since its BA. That could be because it came from the Steppe relatively recently but I'm not exactly sure why its so northern plotting.

Polako thinks that North Italy experienced a steady influx of Levant Neolithic admix from the Iron Age to the Middle Ages.

He says that Roman Era samples had different levels of Levan Neolithic admix depending on sample (it did not even out).

He told me this based on the upcoming paper.

[Dick]

maybe just a coincidence.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

maybe just a coincidence.

Coincidence what ?

[Bosniensis]

I don't have italian component, but have a lot of Balkan component, don't know how much of Northern Slavic is Ancient even 1500 years is ancient imho xD

https://i.imgur.com/dgXYMlI.png

[Dick]

Coincidence what ?

gedmatch results, dnaland etc.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Can't be pure South Slav. ^^^^

Amazonian xD :D

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

gedmatch results, dnaland etc.

Than anyone results can be coincidence. You either have trust in genetics or not.

[Bosniensis]

Can't be pure South Slav. ^^^^

Amazonian xD :D

that's DNA Land language for "Unrecognized"

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

that's DNA Land language for "Unrecognized"

You wish.

[Bosniensis]

Amazonian are Pontic Steppe

In Greek mythology, the Amazons (Greek: Ἀμαζόνες, Amazónes, singular Ἀμαζών, Amazōn) were a tribe of women warriors related to Scythians and Sarmatians. (Slavic Women) xD

I was there banging them creating NEW Amazons

What's not to like ?

[Dick]

Than anyone results can be coincidence. You either have trust in genetics or not.

Idk just saying, I'll give you an example using Dodecad k12b. I've never seen a south Slav get these oracles on Dodecad k12b(usually more NE shifted) and the person isn't NW mixed. The components just give the person these oracles.

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.3% German (Dodecad) + 34.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 0.85
2 64.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.6% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.01
3 64.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.5% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.02
4 50.4% Swedish (Dodecad) + 49.6% Greek (Dodecad) @ 1.04
5 64.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.6% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.11
6 77.4% German (Dodecad) + 22.6% Cypriots (Behar) @ 1.11
7 61.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 38.9% English (Dodecad) @ 1.14
8 63.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.5% British (Dodecad) @ 1.17
9 60.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 39.1% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.18
10 60.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 39.4% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.19
11 63.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.2% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.25
12 62.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 37.4% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.3
13 58.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.34
14 55.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.1% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.34
15 63.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.9% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.45
16 67.1% Romanians (Behar) + 32.9% British (Dodecad) @ 1.47
17 67.9% Romanians (Behar) + 32.1% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.48
18 68.1% Romanians (Behar) + 31.9% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.51
19 67.4% Romanians (Behar) + 32.6% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.54
20 64.4% Romanians (Behar) + 35.6% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.57

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Dodecad +50% Swedish_Dodecad @ 1.086397


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Dodecad +25% O_Italian_Dodecad +25% Romanians_Behar @ 1.055125


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 0.875833
2 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad @ 0.988674
3 Belorussian_Behar + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 0.999566
4 German_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar @ 1.055125
5 Argyll_1000Genomes + Lithuanians_Behar + S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad + Tuscan_HGDP @ 1.085924
6 Greek_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad @ 1.086397

[Ford]

I tend to score pretty high on NW Euro with a few 3rd party calculators
https://i.imgur.com/Wauk13X.png

[Token]

Polako thinks that North Italy experienced a steady influx of Levant Neolithic admix from the Iron Age to the Middle Ages.

He says that Roman Era samples had different levels of Levan Neolithic admix depending on sample (it did not even out).

He told me this based on the upcoming paper.

Yes, mediated by the Romans. The Collegno trio fits very well as the source of East Mediterranean admixture in modern day North Italians.

[Bosniensis]

Idk just saying, I'll give you an example using Dodecad k12b. I've never seen a south Slav get these oracles on Dodecad k12b(usually more NE shifted) and the person isn't NW mixed. The components just give the person these oracles.

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.3% German (Dodecad) + 34.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 0.85
2 64.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.6% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.01
3 64.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.5% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.02
4 50.4% Swedish (Dodecad) + 49.6% Greek (Dodecad) @ 1.04
5 64.4% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 35.6% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 1.11
6 77.4% German (Dodecad) + 22.6% Cypriots (Behar) @ 1.11
7 61.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 38.9% English (Dodecad) @ 1.14
8 63.5% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.5% British (Dodecad) @ 1.17
9 60.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 39.1% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.18
10 60.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 39.4% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.19
11 63.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.2% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.25
12 62.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 37.4% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.3
13 58.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 41.8% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.34
14 55.9% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 44.1% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 1.34
15 63.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.9% Cornwall (1000Genomes) @ 1.45
16 67.1% Romanians (Behar) + 32.9% British (Dodecad) @ 1.47
17 67.9% Romanians (Behar) + 32.1% Irish (Dodecad) @ 1.48
18 68.1% Romanians (Behar) + 31.9% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 1.51
19 67.4% Romanians (Behar) + 32.6% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 1.54
20 64.4% Romanians (Behar) + 35.6% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.57

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Greek_Dodecad +50% Swedish_Dodecad @ 1.086397


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Dodecad +25% O_Italian_Dodecad +25% Romanians_Behar @ 1.055125


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 0.875833
2 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad @ 0.988674
3 Belorussian_Behar + Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad @ 0.999566
4 German_Dodecad + German_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar @ 1.055125
5 Argyll_1000Genomes + Lithuanians_Behar + S_Italian_Sicilian_Dodecad + Tuscan_HGDP @ 1.085924
6 Greek_Dodecad + Greek_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad + Swedish_Dodecad @ 1.086397

my dodecad, as you say .. more NE

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian_Dodecad +50% German_Dodecad @ 2.726167


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Polish_Dodecad +25% Spanish_Dodecad +25% Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.537342

[Dick]

my dodecad, as you say .. more NE

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Bulgarian_Dodecad +50% German_Dodecad @ 2.726167


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Polish_Dodecad +25% Spanish_Dodecad +25% Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.537342

Congrats you're 25% Turkish

[Bosniensis]

Congrats you're 25% Turkish

Awesome!

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I tend to score pretty high on NW Euro with a few 3rd party calculators
https://i.imgur.com/Wauk13X.png

Similar scores like me, only difference I get higher Balkan and you higher Italian.

[Ford]

Similar scores like me, only difference I get higher Balkan and you higher Italian.
Must be related to my haplogroup I think
http://www.hotelsienaborgogrondaie.com/sienahotelstuscany-2016/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/hand-LOTI-1.jpg