Bronze Age Poland with R1a haplogroup: GEDmatch results

[Peterski]

Sample I6531, Bronze Age, 2286-2038 calBCE, Y-DNA R1a1a, mtDNA U5b2b1a1:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#9/50.3023/18.5367

https://i.imgur.com/w2FL4yO.png

The results surprised me, he is much more eastern than RISE150 (Unetice Culture):

Eurogenes K15 PCA:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

Abscisse (x-axis): 417 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 102 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/keVinQX.png

Eurogenes K15 results:

Population
North_Sea 36.41 Pct
Atlantic 18.90 Pct
Baltic 13.92 Pct
Eastern_Euro 20.64 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian 8.95 Pct
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.60 Pct
Oceanian 0.59 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

GEDmatch Genesis kit number - RK4990121

I will upload him to DNA Land.

Edit:

Here are his puntDNAL K15 Oracle Results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 64.92
2 Mediterranean 18.04
3 Caucasian 12.04
4 S_Indian 2.5
5 Beringian 1.02
6 S_African 0.61
7 Siberian 0.4
8 Amerindian 0.36
9 Oceanian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 7.32
2 Belarusian 7.51
3 Russian 8.28
4 Karelian 8.55
5 Mordovian 9.49
6 Swedish 9.52
7 Finnish 10.4
8 Lithuanian 10.46
9 North_German 11.36
10 Slovenian 11.45
11 Norwegian 11.54
12 Hungarian 12.47
13 Austrian 12.48
14 Irish 13.13
15 Scottish 13.14
16 Orcadian 13.38
17 Croatian 14.06
18 English 14.32
19 Utahn_White 17.18
20 South_German 17.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.1% Lithuanian + 11.9% Georgian @ 3.54
2 87.4% Lithuanian + 12.6% Abkhasian @ 3.71
3 85.5% Lithuanian + 14.5% North_Ossetian @ 3.8
4 89.1% Belarusian + 10.9% Lezgin @ 3.82
5 83.8% Lithuanian + 16.2% Chechen @ 3.87
6 84.5% Lithuanian + 15.5% Lezgin @ 3.92
7 85% Lithuanian + 15% Balkar @ 3.97
8 92% Belarusian + 8% Georgian @ 3.99
9 88.8% Belarusian + 11.2% Chechen @ 4.04
10 91.5% Belarusian + 8.5% Abkhasian @ 4.05
11 85% Lithuanian + 15% Kumyk @ 4.09
12 90.1% Belarusian + 9.9% North_Ossetian @ 4.11
13 86.2% Lithuanian + 13.8% Turk_Istanbul @ 4.12
14 89.8% Belarusian + 10.2% Balkar @ 4.19
15 89.8% Belarusian + 10.2% Kumyk @ 4.3
16 91.9% Belarusian + 8.1% Balochi @ 4.35
17 92% Belarusian + 8% Brahui @ 4.46
18 86.3% Lithuanian + 13.7% Kurdish @ 4.48
19 92.1% Belarusian + 7.9% Makrani @ 4.55
20 86.8% Lithuanian + 13.2% Azerbaijani @ 4.57

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Slovenian @ 6.273060

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Karelian +25% Bosnian @ 5.785186

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Bosnian @ 5.785186
2 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Serbian @ 5.891636
3 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Serbian @ 5.905157
4 Belarusian + Belarusian + Karelian + Croatian @ 5.974992
5 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Russian + Bosnian @ 6.000373
6 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Bosnian @ 6.005342
7 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Belarusian + Bosnian @ 6.010186
8 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.015483
9 Lithuanian + Karelian + Karelian + Serbian @ 6.056870
10 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Russian + Serbian @ 6.067600
11 Lithuanian + Karelian + Polish + Croatian @ 6.081112
12 Lithuanian + Karelian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.095787
13 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Serbian @ 6.100805
14 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Russian + Serbian @ 6.108354
15 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Bosnian @ 6.122387
16 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Bosnian @ 6.123160
17 Belarusian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Croatian @ 6.135135
18 Belarusian + Belarusian + Karelian + Serbian @ 6.148506
19 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Macedonian @ 6.155733
20 Belarusian + Karelian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.156730

Global25 coordinates:

Scaled:


Poland_BA:I6531,0.125205,0.114755,0.058454,0.08591 8,0.028005,0.025937,0.005405,0.005538,-0.022907,-0.030433,-0.004222,-0.002398,-0.003865,-0.014038,0.02633,0.009679,0.001173,-0.00038,-0.002765,0.006003,-0.003868,-0.002349,-0.002588,0.01217,0.001197

Normal:


Poland_BA:I6531,0.011,0.0113,0.0155,0.0266,0.0091, 0.0093,0.0023,0.0024,-0.0112,-0.0167,-0.0026,-0.0016,-0.0026,-0.0102,0.0194,0.0073,0.0009,-0.0003,-0.0022,0.0048,-0.0031,-0.0019,-0.0021,0.0101,0.001

He was outside of the range of modern variation, but kind of between Finns, Poles and Swedes indeed:

https://i.imgur.com/EWV31Ii.png

His DNA Land Ancestry Report is also ready:

https://i.imgur.com/7cmlfd6.png

Edit:

Kuyavian Corded Ware N49 looks like it could be close to modern Poles, if I'm not mistaken (but there are no labels for modern pops):

From "A genomic Neolithic time transect of hunter-farmer admixture in central Poland":

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w.pdf

These samples are not in Global25, probably because they are only available in FASTQ format (and it is pain in the ass to process it).

https://i.imgur.com/bE1sWi5.png

https://i.imgur.com/53bmkzp.png

https://i.imgur.com/sA1poVj.png

I will probably process some of them and upload to GEDmatch but it takes a long time to process one sample in this format.

[War Chef]

Genetic continuity in Poland since 2000 B.C.

[Peterski]

This shows that there was a big genetic diversity throughout Southern Poland during the Bronze Age.

RISE150 (also Bronze Age Silesia, but different part of it and Unetice culture) plots with modern Irish.


Genetic continuity in Poland since 2000 B.C.

Bronze Age people!: https://archive.org/details/polesunderprussi00kozi/page/2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD1fyoZI7Xw

https://i.imgur.com/FsGw8x7.png

https://i.imgur.com/GfhiaQX.png

[Lucas]

But K36 for BA "Silesian" isn't so Eastern Euro:) Lol you always choose such results to prove your opinions...

Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.16 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 11.46 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 12.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.78 Pct
French 5.50 Pct
Iberian 0.42 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 20.58 Pct
North_Caucasian 7.78 Pct
North_Sea 18.92 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 3.31 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 2.69 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/5137e1ca-e484-46e7-a29a-d3a27cae9a2c.png

[Lucas]

Genetic continuity in Poland since 2000 B.C.

Nope, no continouity:) Only in K15 PCA.

Peterski provided only this, not oracle.

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Swedish 9.38
2 Swedish 11.81
3 Norwegian 12.29
4 Southwest_Finnish 12.36
5 Finnish 13.19
6 West_Norwegian 13.58
7 Danish 13.75
8 North_German 13.8
9 North_Dutch 14.38
10 East_German 15.26
11 East_Finnish 16.33
12 West_Scottish 16.46
13 West_German 16.62
14 Orcadian 16.84
15 Irish 16.86
16 Southeast_English 17.31
17 Hungarian 17.44
18 South_Dutch 17.89
19 Southwest_English 18.15
20 Estonian 18.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% North_Swedish + 13.8% Tabassaran @ 6.97
2 87.5% North_Swedish + 12.5% Lezgin @ 7.23
3 88.4% North_Swedish + 11.6% Chechen @ 7.43
4 90.1% North_Swedish + 9.9% Adygei @ 7.81
5 89.9% North_Swedish + 10.1% Kabardin @ 7.9
6 90.6% North_Swedish + 9.4% Ossetian @ 7.9
7 90.6% North_Swedish + 9.4% North_Ossetian @ 7.92
8 92% North_Swedish + 8% Abhkasian @ 7.94
9 90.4% North_Swedish + 9.6% Balkar @ 8
10 91.7% North_Swedish + 8.3% Georgian @ 8.01
11 89.8% North_Swedish + 10.2% Kumyk @ 8.02
12 91.3% North_Swedish + 8.7% Afghan_Pashtun @ 8.37
13 92.3% North_Swedish + 7.7% Kalash @ 8.39
14 92.9% North_Swedish + 7.1% Balochi @ 8.53
15 93.2% North_Swedish + 6.8% Brahui @ 8.58
16 91.2% North_Swedish + 8.8% Tadjik @ 8.58
17 93.6% North_Swedish + 6.4% Makrani @ 8.67
18 93.6% North_Swedish + 6.4% Kurdish @ 8.71
19 93.6% North_Swedish + 6.4% Iranian @ 8.71
20 92.1% North_Swedish + 7.9% Nogay @ 8.76

[Peterski]

K36 shows highest similarity to Scotland at 77% - another confirmation of the Celtic Lugii Polish-Scottish-Iberian connection:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?199299-Map-of-R-L617&p=4303698&viewfull=1#post4303698

http://i.imgur.com/91eYtUe.png

^^^ Celtic Lugii in Southern Poland (my haplogroup comes from them), Scotland and Iberia:

1) Poland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugii

"The Lugii (or Legii, Lugi, Lygii, Ligii, Lugiones, Lygians, Ligians, Lugians, or Lougoi) were a large tribal confederation mentioned by Roman authors living in ca. 100 BC–300 AD in Central Europe, north of the Sudetes mountains in the basin of upper Oder and Vistula rivers, covering most of modern south and middle Poland (regions of Silesia, Greater Poland, Mazovia and Little Poland)."

2) Scotland:

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/_Texts/Ptolemy/2/2*.html

"from the Lemannonis bay as far as the Varar estuary are the Caledoni, and above these is the Caledonian forest, from which toward the east are the Decantae, and next to these the Lugi extending to the Cornavi boundary, and above the Lugi are the Smertae; below Caledonia are the Vacomagi, among whom are the following towns"

3) Iberia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astures#Origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_peoples_of_the_Iberian_Peninsula#Celtic

"The Transmontani, placed between the Navia River and the central massif of the Picos de Europa, comprised the Cabarci, Iburri, Luggones, Paesici, Paenii, Saelini, Vinciani, Viromenici, Brigaentini and Baedunienses; the Cismontani comprised the Amaci, Cabruagenigi, Lancienses, Lougei, Tiburi, Orniaci, Superatii, Gigurri, Zoelae and Susarri (which dwelled around Asturica Augusta, in the Astura river valley, and was the main Astur town in Roman times). Prior to the Roman conquest in the late 1st century BC, they were united into a tribal federation with the mountain-top citadel of Asturica (Astorga) as their capital."

Lugii in Southern Poland, 1st-2nd centuries AD:

https://i.imgur.com/86sT5R1.png

[Peterski]

But K36 for BA "Silesian" isn't so Eastern Euro

Still much more Eastern than Samborzec Beaker (not to mention RISE150 Unetice):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?277285-Polish-Bell-Beaker-on-GEDmatch

https://i.imgur.com/jF4pFSy.png

[Lucas]

I uploaded from PLINK for comparison JG6169451
Little more snps (113 000 in K36 comparing to 107 000).

Not much differences, but little less Eastern.

K36

Amerindian 0.19 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 8.71 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 9.99 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 9.25 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.12 Pct
French 5.85 Pct
Iberian 0.91 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 19.83 Pct
North_Caucasian 6.46 Pct
North_Sea 19.89 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.31 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 6.52 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 3.99 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -


K15

1 North_Sea 37.11
2 Atlantic 18.97
3 Eastern_Euro 17.78
4 Baltic 12.7
5 West_Asian 9.42
6 Amerindian 1.51
7 Oceanian 1.25
8 South_Asian 1.06
9 Sub-Saharan 0.2

[Peterski]

He actually had a lot of Eastern K36 admixtures, whether you like it or not:

Central_Euro 8.16 Pct
East_Central_Euro 11.46 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.78 Pct
Volga-Ural 2.69 Pct

In addition he had a lot of Caucasian admixtures:

North_Caucasian 7.78 Pct
South_Central_Asian 3.31 Pct

And he had more of Celtic than Germanic admix:

North_Atlantic 20.58 Pct
French 5.50 Pct

He was closer to modern Poles than Pre-Slavic Balkans to modern Balkans:

https://i.imgur.com/BvQlw0v.png

K36 Similarity Maps for ancient Balkan samples:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279424-Iron-Age-Balkan-DNA

https://i.imgur.com/p91cO6w.png

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279823-Bronze-Age-Balkan-DNA

https://i.imgur.com/uUNh7mx.png

[Peterski]

Not much differences

Your upload has more noise ("exotic" SSA, Indian, Amerind, Oceanian), but overall very similar:

Population
North_Sea 37.11 Pct
Atlantic 18.97 Pct
Baltic 12.70 Pct
Eastern_Euro 17.78 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian 9.42 Pct
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 1.06 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.51 Pct
Oceanian 1.25 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.20 Pct

Eurogenes K15 PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/jpUdJik.png

^^^ Even more similar to modern Southern Poles here, LOL: :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY3K7NYGpQ

Edit:

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Kit RK4990121

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 44.04
2 Caucasian 17.67
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.47
4 South_Central_Asian 11.48
5 Ancestral_Altaic 11.06
6 Australoid 1.43
7 Khoisan 0.75
8 African_Pygmy 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Finn_West ( ) 10.78
2 Swede_Saami ( ) 10.93
3 Finn_East ( ) 13.05
4 Finnish-East ( ) 13.17
5 Finnish_FIN ( ) 13.57
6 Finn ( ) 13.58
7 Dane ( ) 14.31
8 Russian-Ural ( ) 14.56
9 Swede ( ) 14.83
10 Erzya ( ) 15.18
11 Tatar-Mishar ( ) 15.32
12 Tatar ( ) 15.94
13 German ( ) 16.02
14 Karelian ( ) 16.03
15 Dutch ( ) 16.09
16 Norwegian_East ( ) 16.18
17 North_German ( ) 16.29
18 Tatar-Kazan ( ) 16.4
19 Icelandic ( ) 16.8
20 Tatar-Lithuanian ( ) 17.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.5% Finn_West ( ) + 12.5% Kalash ( ) @ 6.06
2 87.7% Swede_Saami ( ) + 12.3% Kalash ( ) @ 6.51
3 87% Finn_West ( ) + 13% Brahui ( ) @ 6.71
4 75.7% Finn_West ( ) + 24.3% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 6.83
5 86.2% Finn_West ( ) + 13.8% Balochi ( ) @ 6.98
6 75.5% Swede_Saami ( ) + 24.5% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 7
7 85.4% Finn_West ( ) + 14.6% Makrani ( ) @ 7.01
8 66.4% Swede ( ) + 33.6% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 7.02
9 77.9% Swede_Saami ( ) + 22.1% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 7.1
10 87.1% Swede_Saami ( ) + 12.9% Brahui ( ) @ 7.11
11 78.4% Finn_West ( ) + 21.6% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 7.16
12 75.4% Finn_West ( ) + 24.6% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 7.17
13 85.5% Swede_Saami ( ) + 14.5% Makrani ( ) @ 7.3
14 86.4% Swede_Saami ( ) + 13.6% Balochi ( ) @ 7.32
15 84.1% Swede_Saami ( ) + 15.9% Burusho ( ) @ 7.39
16 67.8% Dane ( ) + 32.2% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 7.43
17 75.5% Swede_Saami ( ) + 24.5% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 7.48
18 65.7% Swede ( ) + 34.3% Tajik_Pomiri_Rushan ( ) @ 7.49
19 69.6% Swede ( ) + 30.4% Tajik_Pomiri_Ishkashim ( ) @ 7.55
20 81.2% Finn_West ( ) + 18.8% Pashtun_Afghani ( ) @ 7.81

MDLP K16 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Steppe 30.66
2 NorthEastEuropean 29.9
3 Neolithic 19.94
4 Caucasian 14.33
5 Indian 2.96
6 Subsaharian 1.33
7 Australian 0.61
8 EastAfrican 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 8.46
2 Icelandic (Iceland) 8.47
3 Norwegian (Norwegia) 8.86
4 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 8.95
5 Swede (Sweden) 10.15
6 Belarusian (Kobryn_Brest) 10.25
7 Finn (WestFinland) 10.47
8 Russian (CentralRussia) 10.71
9 Irish (Munster) 10.72
10 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 10.9
11 Finn (EastFinland) 11.01
12 Ingrians (Ingermanland) 11.02
13 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 11.08
14 English (Cornwall) 11.14
15 Irish (Ireland) 11.24
16 Cossack (Kuban) 11.29
17 Irish (Ulster) 11.32
18 Dutch (Netherlands) 11.36
19 Irish (Connacht) 11.43
20 Hungarian (WestUkraine) 11.44

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 29.8% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 7.11
2 66.3% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 33.7% Finn (EastFinland) @ 7.37
3 68.6% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 31.4% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 7.56
4 90.2% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) @ 7.59
5 72.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 27.8% Latvian_Dobele (Dobele) @ 7.65
6 90.9% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.1% Tabasaran (Dagestan) @ 7.66
7 63.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 36.8% Finn (EastFinland) @ 7.68
8 90.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9.2% Shugnan (Badachshan) @ 7.69
9 92.6% Icelandic (Iceland) + 7.4% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 7.7
10 91.3% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.7% Lak (Dagestan) @ 7.7
11 74.3% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 25.7% Estonian (Estonia) @ 7.72
12 91% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9% Dargin (Urkarah) @ 7.72
13 91% Icelandic (Iceland) + 9% Tajik (Pomiri_Tajikistan) @ 7.72
14 80.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 19.8% Russian (Russia) @ 7.72
15 91.1% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.9% Rushanvanch (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 7.74
16 91.5% Icelandic (Iceland) + 8.5% Ishkasim (Gorno-Badakhshan) @ 7.75
17 76.4% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 23.6% Russians-West (WestRussian) @ 7.76
18 69.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 30.1% Ingrians (Ingermanland) @ 7.76
19 77.8% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 22.2% Erzya_Moksha (Mordovia) @ 7.76
20 93.8% Icelandic (Iceland) + 6.2% Tubalar ((Altai)) @ 7.79

[War Chef]

Lugii in Southern Poland, 1st-2nd centuries AD:

https://i.imgur.com/86sT5R1.png

This guy certainly cannot be a Lugii/Vandal. Jastorf culture had yet to expand into Poland.

[Peterski]

This guy certainly cannot be a Lugii/Vandal. Jastorf culture had yet to expand into Poland.

Lugii predate Jastorf expansion and Vandals were not Lugii of course.

How did you even come up with such idea that Vandals = Lugii despite completely different ethnonyms?

[Dick]

"distance%=4.682"



Poland_BA,64.6
Barcin_N,35.4

[Peterski]

"distance%=4.682"

Poland_BA,64.6
Barcin_N,35.4

Don't use average of all Poland_BA but just this sample.

Poland_BA (average) was extremely genetically diverse.

[Dick]

Don't use average of all Poland_BA but just this sample.

Poland_BA (average) was extremely genetically diverse.

I used the co-ordinates you posted to some spreadsheet i already had on R.


"1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Poland_BA:I6531 Barcin_N EHG WHG Iberomaurusian
10.56700 17.96510 27.33372 36.09148 47.23214
Biaka
82.32696

"distance%=4.682"



Poland_BA,64.6
Barcin_N,35.4

[Peterski]

Kuyavian Corded Ware N49 looks like it could be close to modern Poles, if I'm not mistaken (but there are no labels for modern pops):

From "A genomic Neolithic time transect of hunter-farmer admixture in central Poland":

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w.pdf

These samples are not in Global25, probably because they are only available in FASTQ format (and it is pain in the ass to process it).

https://i.imgur.com/bE1sWi5.png

https://i.imgur.com/53bmkzp.png

https://i.imgur.com/sA1poVj.png

I will probably process some of them and upload to GEDmatch but it takes a long time to process one sample in this format.


(...)

Askaukalis (Greek: Ἀσκαυκαλίς, Latin: Ascaucalis) was in Kuyavia, it was modern Inowrocław:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRDbE4DeoAs

[Lucas]

He actually had a lot of Eastern K36 admixtures, whether you like it or not:

Central_Euro 8.16 Pct
East_Central_Euro 11.46 Pct
Eastern_Euro 12.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 8.78 Pct
Volga-Ural 2.69 Pct

In addition he had a lot of Caucasian admixtures:

North_Caucasian 7.78 Pct
South_Central_Asian 3.31 Pct

And he had more of Celtic than Germanic admix:

North_Atlantic 20.58 Pct
French 5.50 Pct



Are you joking? Every modern NW Euro has such few percent of "Eastern" admixtures. Do you know someone who doesn't have?:)

[Lucas]

Your upload has more noise ("exotic" SSA, Indian, Amerind, Oceanian), but overall very similar:


Eurogenes K15 PCA:

https://i.imgur.com/jpUdJik.png

^^^ Even more similar to modern Southern Poles here, LOL: :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY3K7NYGpQ

Edit:

MDLP K23b Oracle results:


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Finn_West ( ) 10.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.5% Finn_West ( ) + 12.5% Kalash ( ) @ 6.06


MDLP K16 Oracle results:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 8.46
11.44

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 29.8% Latvian_Cesis (Cesis) @ 7.11



Being similar to Scottland, Finland and Poland in the same time tells us that modern calcs aren't prepared for this ancient sample.

[Leto]

What I find fascinating is that Bronze Age samples from Kazakhstan and the Volga-Ural region are almost the same as that Polish sample. I would assume the Fatyanovo (European Russia) were also similar.

[North Sea]

Largest segment = 4.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 243.3 cM (6.793 Pct)

171 shared segments found for this comparison.

270438 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.887 Pct SNPs are full identical

[MagnusDark]

Sample I6531, Bronze Age, 2286-2038 calBCE, Y-DNA R1a1a, mtDNA U5b2b1a1:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#9/50.3023/18.5367

https://i.imgur.com/w2FL4yO.png

The results surprised me, he is much more eastern than RISE150 (Unetice Culture):

Eurogenes K15 PCA:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

Abscisse (x-axis): 417 pixel, Ordonnée (y-axis): 102 pixel

https://i.imgur.com/keVinQX.png

Eurogenes K15 results:

Population
North_Sea 36.41 Pct
Atlantic 18.90 Pct
Baltic 13.92 Pct
Eastern_Euro 20.64 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian 8.95 Pct
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.60 Pct
Oceanian 0.59 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

GEDmatch Genesis kit number - RK4990121

I will upload him to DNA Land.

Edit:

Here are his puntDNAL K15 Oracle Results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 64.92
2 Mediterranean 18.04
3 Caucasian 12.04
4 S_Indian 2.5
5 Beringian 1.02
6 S_African 0.61
7 Siberian 0.4
8 Amerindian 0.36
9 Oceanian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Polish 7.32
2 Belarusian 7.51
3 Russian 8.28
4 Karelian 8.55
5 Mordovian 9.49
6 Swedish 9.52
7 Finnish 10.4
8 Lithuanian 10.46
9 North_German 11.36
10 Slovenian 11.45
11 Norwegian 11.54
12 Hungarian 12.47
13 Austrian 12.48
14 Irish 13.13
15 Scottish 13.14
16 Orcadian 13.38
17 Croatian 14.06
18 English 14.32
19 Utahn_White 17.18
20 South_German 17.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.1% Lithuanian + 11.9% Georgian @ 3.54
2 87.4% Lithuanian + 12.6% Abkhasian @ 3.71
3 85.5% Lithuanian + 14.5% North_Ossetian @ 3.8
4 89.1% Belarusian + 10.9% Lezgin @ 3.82
5 83.8% Lithuanian + 16.2% Chechen @ 3.87
6 84.5% Lithuanian + 15.5% Lezgin @ 3.92
7 85% Lithuanian + 15% Balkar @ 3.97
8 92% Belarusian + 8% Georgian @ 3.99
9 88.8% Belarusian + 11.2% Chechen @ 4.04
10 91.5% Belarusian + 8.5% Abkhasian @ 4.05
11 85% Lithuanian + 15% Kumyk @ 4.09
12 90.1% Belarusian + 9.9% North_Ossetian @ 4.11
13 86.2% Lithuanian + 13.8% Turk_Istanbul @ 4.12
14 89.8% Belarusian + 10.2% Balkar @ 4.19
15 89.8% Belarusian + 10.2% Kumyk @ 4.3
16 91.9% Belarusian + 8.1% Balochi @ 4.35
17 92% Belarusian + 8% Brahui @ 4.46
18 86.3% Lithuanian + 13.7% Kurdish @ 4.48
19 92.1% Belarusian + 7.9% Makrani @ 4.55
20 86.8% Lithuanian + 13.2% Azerbaijani @ 4.57

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Slovenian @ 6.273060

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Karelian +25% Bosnian @ 5.785186

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Bosnian @ 5.785186
2 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Serbian @ 5.891636
3 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Serbian @ 5.905157
4 Belarusian + Belarusian + Karelian + Croatian @ 5.974992
5 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Russian + Bosnian @ 6.000373
6 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Bosnian @ 6.005342
7 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Belarusian + Bosnian @ 6.010186
8 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.015483
9 Lithuanian + Karelian + Karelian + Serbian @ 6.056870
10 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Russian + Serbian @ 6.067600
11 Lithuanian + Karelian + Polish + Croatian @ 6.081112
12 Lithuanian + Karelian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.095787
13 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Serbian @ 6.100805
14 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Russian + Serbian @ 6.108354
15 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Bosnian @ 6.122387
16 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Bosnian @ 6.123160
17 Belarusian + Belarusian + Belarusian + Croatian @ 6.135135
18 Belarusian + Belarusian + Karelian + Serbian @ 6.148506
19 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Karelian + Macedonian @ 6.155733
20 Belarusian + Karelian + Karelian + Croatian @ 6.156730

Global25 coordinates:

Scaled:


Poland_BA:I6531,0.125205,0.114755,0.058454,0.08591 8,0.028005,0.025937,0.005405,0.005538,-0.022907,-0.030433,-0.004222,-0.002398,-0.003865,-0.014038,0.02633,0.009679,0.001173,-0.00038,-0.002765,0.006003,-0.003868,-0.002349,-0.002588,0.01217,0.001197

Normal:


Poland_BA:I6531,0.011,0.0113,0.0155,0.0266,0.0091, 0.0093,0.0023,0.0024,-0.0112,-0.0167,-0.0026,-0.0016,-0.0026,-0.0102,0.0194,0.0073,0.0009,-0.0003,-0.0022,0.0048,-0.0031,-0.0019,-0.0021,0.0101,0.001

He was outside of the range of modern variation, but kind of between Finns, Poles and Swedes indeed:

https://i.imgur.com/EWV31Ii.png

His DNA Land Ancestry Report is also ready:

https://i.imgur.com/7cmlfd6.png

Edit:

Kuyavian Corded Ware N49 looks like it could be close to modern Poles, if I'm not mistaken (but there are no labels for modern pops):

From "A genomic Neolithic time transect of hunter-farmer admixture in central Poland":

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w.pdf

These samples are not in Global25, probably because they are only available in FASTQ format (and it is pain in the ass to process it).

https://i.imgur.com/bE1sWi5.png

https://i.imgur.com/53bmkzp.png

https://i.imgur.com/sA1poVj.png

I will probably process some of them and upload to GEDmatch but it takes a long time to process one sample in this format.

Wow. That single pop distance with Poland is not too far. Especially considering the passage of time. Seems like there’s some genetic continuity which seems problematic considering the claim Poland was a waste land before Slavs arrived. Yet they’re autosomally really close to ancient R1a sample when they’re predominantly R1a? Me thinks there’s more to this than we will ever know. Fragmented histories will not fill in all the blanks.

[MagnusDark]

Largest segment = 4.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 243.3 cM (6.793 Pct)

171 shared segments found for this comparison.

270438 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.887 Pct SNPs are full identical


For being R1a I share practically nothing with this guy lmao.

Largest segment = 2.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 23.2 cM (0.649 Pct)

16 shared segments found for this comparison.

278150 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.715 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Dick]

50 snp-1cm

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 351.4 cM (9.809 Pct)

238 shared segments found for this comparison.

284953 SNPs used for this comparison.

57.102 Pct SNPs are full identical


100 snp-3cm

Largest segment = 3.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 3.1 cM (0.086 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

284953 SNPs used for this comparison.

57.102 Pct SNPs are full identical

[North Sea]

For being R1a I share practically nothing with this guy lmao.

Largest segment = 2.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 23.2 cM (0.649 Pct)

16 shared segments found for this comparison.

278150 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.715 Pct SNPs are full identical

Lol. You did 50 snp and 1 cm ?



50 snp-1cm

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 351.4 cM (9.809 Pct)

238 shared segments found for this comparison.

284953 SNPs used for this comparison.

57.102 Pct SNPs are full identical


100 snp-3cm

Largest segment = 3.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 3.1 cM (0.086 Pct)

1 shared segments found for this comparison.

284953 SNPs used for this comparison.

57.102 Pct SNPs are full identical

According to Moje Ime logic I am closer to this Polak than you are. Cuz I have a total segment that is larger than yours lel ... But you actually have a total cM that is larger and more shared segments which makes sense that you are closer.

[MagnusDark]

Lol. You did 50 snp and 1 cm ?




According to Moje Ime logic I am closer to this Polak than you are. Cuz I have a total segment that is larger than yours lel ... But you actually have a total cM that is larger and more shared segments which makes sense that you are closer.


Yea. I have no match at 200-400. The Thracian Bronze Age samples I do get some matching at smaller segments with 200-400. . Then it increase to hundreds totals when at 50 for Thracian. At cm matching I’m closer to the Bronze Age Thracians but it seems autosomally overall closer to the Illyrian sample going by admixture. That one Iron Age Illyrian was nearly identical in admixture for puntdnalK15

[North Sea]

Yea. I have no match at 200-400. The Thracian Bronze Age samples I do get some matching at smaller segments with 200-400. . Then it increase to hundreds totals when at 50 for Thracian. At cm matching I’m closer to the Bronze Age Thracians but it seems autosomally overall closer to the Illyrian sample going by admixture. That one Iron Age Illyrian was nearly identical in admixture for puntdnalK15

Yeah, I think these matching are a bunch of bullshit. I ran the results of a Serb with surname Petrovic who I match on gedmatch , he matches other Albanians also but he is still more Slavic shifted / North and plots with Serbs yet I matched this sample closer


I would take most of this shit with a grain of salt.

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 103.9 cM (2.903 Pct)

44 shared segments found for this comparison.

82386 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.460 Pct SNPs are full identical

Very low shared segments and total cM compared.


He did not match that Vucedol very close though , even on 50 snp he barely matched it from what I remember.


He seems related to Serbian national hero , Djorde Petrovic ? Same surname.

[Dick]

Yeah, I think these matching are a bunch of bullshit. I ran the results of a Serb with surname Petrovic who I match on gedmatch , he matches other Albanians also but he is still more Slavic shifted / North and plots with Serbs yet I matched this sample closer


I would take most of this shit with a grain of salt.

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 103.9 cM (2.903 Pct)

44 shared segments found for this comparison.

82386 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.460 Pct SNPs are full identical

Very low shared segments and total cM compared.


He did not match that Vucedol very close though , even on 50 snp he barely matched it from what I remember.


He seems related to Serbian national hero , Djorde Petrovic ? Same surname.

If he's I2-CTS10228 then yeah but Petrovic is a common surname.

[North Sea]

If he's I2-CTS10228 then yeah but Petrovic is a common surname.

I havent checked but he probably is ... There was a Raznatovic who also matched Skerdilaid here on autosomal and was I2a1b .

[Dick]

I havent checked but he probably is ... There was a Raznatovic who also matched Skerdilaid here on autosomal and was I2a1b .

they're both from Montenegrin clans but don't ask me which ones because I have no idea.

[North Sea]

they're both from Montenegrin clans but don't ask me which ones because I have no idea.

Yeah I know ;)

[MagnusDark]

Yeah, I think these matching are a bunch of bullshit. I ran the results of a Serb with surname Petrovic who I match on gedmatch , he matches other Albanians also but he is still more Slavic shifted / North and plots with Serbs yet I matched this sample closer


I would take most of this shit with a grain of salt.

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 103.9 cM (2.903 Pct)

44 shared segments found for this comparison.

82386 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.460 Pct SNPs are full identical

Very low shared segments and total cM compared.


He did not match that Vucedol very close though , even on 50 snp he barely matched it from what I remember.


He seems related to Serbian national hero , Djorde Petrovic ? Same surname.

Yea it’s all ancient SNPs and recombination is constantly changing and evolving us. No modern people are exactly like the old. Unless you put if Africa group landed on an island and never had contact with the outside world for 50k years than that’s a different story lmao. For the rest of the world we’re mostly a combination of many ancient groups with some being more dominantly involved in shaping the ethnogenesis of modern nations than others.

[North Sea]

Yea it’s all ancient SNPs and recombination is constantly changing and evolving us. No modern people are exactly like the old. Unless you put if Africa group landed on an island and never had contact with the outside world for 50k years than that’s a different story lmao. For the rest of the world we’re mostly a combination of many ancient groups with some being more dominantly involved in shaping the ethnogenesis of modern nations than others.

Yeah, nobody can be related closely to an ancient sample. I think these calculators work mostly for distant cousins and close relatives and not ancient samples although its obvious we carry similar autosomal admix as that Vucedol and similar ydna's etc which is logical based on that who should be closer. Its getting the same top 5 countries as I do on calcs. So I assume we inherited such DNA from such samples.


Those people matching these samples on default barely even match it , a total cM below 5 is like nothing .


Anyway, I ran the kit of that Serb to compare with mine and looks like we are 4th or 3rd cousins lel

On default



Largest segment = 12.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 38.5 cM (1.073 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 4.3

4 shared segments found for this comparison.

158145 SNPs used for this comparison.



on 50 snp and 1 cm

Largest segment = 12.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 1114.4 cM (31.099 Pct)

535 shared segments found for this comparison.

158145 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.736 Pct SNPs are full identical




Notice how the largest segment remains the same , total cm and segment above 10 is a good sign of relatedness. 50 snp is more broadly and puts it even closer. It ups the total cM and total matched segments evn further

[Ayetooey]

No match on default.

On 50 snp.

Largest segment = 4.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 257.5 cM (7.186 Pct)