R1a Z93 - Indo-Iranian or Turkic?

[Proto-Shaman]

MMMMmmmhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
https://i.imgur.com/bSuvYiI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5nNc1wN.jpg

[Leto]

Dude, please stop spamming the forum and bumping everything related to R1a and Iranians. You're really obsessed with that pseudoscience!

[Blondie]

of course r1a-z93 is iranic.

[Dorian]

I embrace my R1a turanid ancestors,one more great people in our family trees!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmI3vAIhbE

[Dorian]

I embrace my R1a turanid ancestors,one more great people in our family trees!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmI3vAIhbE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN_xl8Kv36Y

I have known you since my childhood, Genghis Khan(Ha-Hu-Ha)
I know you before we get the snow, Jenkes Khan.(Ha Hu Ha)

For love, you always drew a sword,
the girl you had was the most beautiful
And it was yours all the Earth...(Hu Ha)

Ge- Ge- Genghis Khan,
Life like your life
I would want to live

Ge- Ge- Genghis Khan,
from the wine you drink
let me be drunk

And Where To Go (Oo O O),
Always count (Aa Ha Ha Ha)
Let's be like you, Genghis Khan

Ge- Ge- Genghis Khan,
Life like your life
I would want to live

Ge- Ge- Genghis Khan,
from the wine you drink
let me be drunk

And Where To Go (Oo O O),
Always count (Aa Ha Ha Ha)
Let's be like you, Genghis Khan

I've known you for years, Genghis Khan. (Ha Ha Ha)

Every night they came to company, Genghis Khan.(Ha Ha Ha)

In your hand you held, you the fire
and you had a big heart in your chest
Which all children had (Hu Ha)

Ge-, Ge-, Genghis Han, like your own life I'd like to live...( x2 )

[Proto-Shaman]

Guys, please read Wikipedia!!!!!! R1a is linked to Iron Age and early Medieval Tüüürks, not late Medieval Mongols xD

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards from
Z93* Turanistan Homeland

https://i.imgur.com/Tth7Bv7.png

NOTE: @Leto please no anti-Turkic trolling in this thread. Thanks in advance.

[Proto-Shaman]

of course r1a-z93 is iranic.
Can you also show us these iranic on the map?

[Blondie]

Can you also show us these iranic on the map?

1. Turan is iranic word, the original turanians were iranic peoples not turks:

"Turan (Persian: توران Tūrān, "the land of the Tur") is a historical region in Central Asia. The term is of Iranian origin[1][2] and may refer to a particular prehistoric human settlement, a historic geographical region, or a culture. The original Turanians were an Iranian[3][4][5] tribe of the Avestan age. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan

2. r1a-z93 marker is iranic:

"Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.

The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.

Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.

The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.

The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.

Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1a_migration_map.jpg

Ancient Central Asia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Indo-Iranian_origins.png

"The Andronovo culture is a collection of similar local Bronze Age cultures that flourished c. 2000–900 BC in western Siberia and the central Eurasian Steppe.[1] Some researchers have preferred to term it an archaeological complex or archaeological horizon.[2] The older Sintashta culture (2100–1800 BC), formerly included within the Andronovo culture, is now considered separately, but regarded as its predecessor, and accepted as part of the wider Andronovo horizon.

Most researchers associate the Andronovo horizon with early Indo-Iranian languages, though it may have overlapped the early Uralic-speaking area at its northern fringe.[3] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/indo-european-indo-iranian-migrations-1100x481.jpg

[Dorian]

Guys, please read Wikipedia!!!!!! R1a is linked to Iron Age and early Medieval Tüüürks, not late Medieval Mongols xD

Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards from
Z93* Turanistan Homeland


It doesn't matter ,it's like they are a cousin tribe of ours...

[Dorian]

:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz:zzz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CIh_Lx8SY

[Arhat]

Dude, please stop spamming the forum and bumping everything related to R1a and Iranians. You're really obsessed with that pseudoscience!

Funnily he is not even R1a or R1b himself.

[Proto-Shaman]

:coffee:

1. Turan is iranic word, the original turanians were iranic peoples not turks:

"Turan (Persian: توران Tūrān, "the land of the Tur") is a historical region in Central Asia. The term is of Iranian origin[1][2] and may refer to a particular prehistoric human settlement, a historic geographical region, or a culture. The original Turanians were an Iranian[3][4][5] tribe of the Avestan age. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan
1. Turan is an iranicized word for non-Iranian Turanians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniran
"Anīrân (Modern Persian, انیران) or Anērān (Middle Persian, 𐭠𐭭𐭩𐭥𐭠𐭭) is an ethno-linguistic term that signifies "non-Iranian" or "non-Iran" (non-Aryan). Thus, in a general sense, 'Aniran' signifies lands where Iranian languages are not spoken."
"... Younger Avesta as anairya, where it denotes the "Turanians" ..."

"In the Shahnameh, the poet Ferdowsi draws on Zoroastrian scripture (with due attribution) and retains the association of Aneran with the Turanians. The poet, however, specifically places them beyond the Amu Darya and identifies the Turanians as "Turks". ..."


2. r1a-z93 marker is iranic:

"Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.

The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.

Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.

The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.

The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.

Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/R1a_migration_map.jpg

Ancient Central Asia:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Indo-Iranian_origins.png

"The Andronovo culture is a collection of similar local Bronze Age cultures that flourished c. 2000–900 BC in western Siberia and the central Eurasian Steppe.[1] Some researchers have preferred to term it an archaeological complex or archaeological horizon.[2] The older Sintashta culture (2100–1800 BC), formerly included within the Andronovo culture, is now considered separately, but regarded as its predecessor, and accepted as part of the wider Andronovo horizon.

Most researchers associate the Andronovo horizon with early Indo-Iranian languages, though it may have overlapped the early Uralic-speaking area at its northern fringe.[3] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
2. R1a is a typical Turkic marker:
"...haplogroup R1a and its subclade Z93. The pattern could be considered typically “Turkic”..."
http://file.scirp.org/Html/2-1590582_73563.htm

3. Andronovo is just a typical Turkic culture:
"Russian and Central Asian scholars working on the contemporary but very different Andronovo and Bactrian Margiana archaeological complexes of the 2nd millennium b.c. have identified both as Indo-Iranian, and particular sites so identified, are being used for nationalist purposes. There is, however, no compelling archaeological evidence that they had a common [Indo-European] ancestor or that either is Indo-Iranian. Ethnicity and language are not easily linked with an archaeological signature, and the identity of the Indo-Iranians remains elusive. [...]. There are serious problems in determining the chronology of the Common Altaic protolanguage. The question is not whether an Altaic protolanguage existed but how shared linguistic material due to early contacts can be distinguished from that inherited from the supposed Common Altaic. Whatever the answer to this question, it is very unlikely that in the chronological range of Andronovo and the Bactrian Margiana complex a Common Altaic (still) existed. This means that the possible languages of the bearers of these archaeological cultures can only be Turkic or Mongolian (for several reasons I would exclude Manchu-Tunguzian and other supposed Altaic languages such as Korean or Japanese).[...]. Both Proto-Turkic and Proto-Mongolian could, however, reflect a culture like the Andronovo. [.]. It is not surprising that the majority continue to hold the view that the bearers of the Andronovo culture spoke Indo-Iranian. Consensus is not, however, the hallmark of all responses. [...]. Renfrew favors an Indo-Iranian identity for the Andronovo, and he fully realizes that there is not a shred of evidence that identifies the Andronovo with the traditional homeland of the Indo-Iranian-speakers either on the Iranian Plateau or in South Asia. There is, however, clear evidence for a Bactrian Margiana presence on the Iranian Plateau (Amiet 1984, Hiebert and Lamberg-Karlovsky 1992) and in South Asia (Jarrige 1993, n.d.). [...]. Such diversity among the Andronovo appeals to me. Framing the question as what language the Andronovo spoke is, I believe, misdirected. The Andronovo was made up of many cultures subject to constant change; some may have spoken Indo-Iranian, others Proto-Turkic, and yet others Proto-Mongolian, and, pace Mallory, there may have been an occasional Finno-Ugric-speaker among the lot."
http://mapageweb.umontreal.ca/tuitekj/cours/IE/LambergKarlovsky.pdf

"Thus, there is an equally valid quest in searching for the homeland and subsequent migration of the Altaic languages (Turkish, Mongolian), Ugric (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian) - see Gamkrelidze and Ivanov for a full listings of these language families and Elamo-Dravidian. Each of these three language families have their roots on the Eurasiatic steppes and/or in Central Asia. The fact that these language families, compared to Indo-European, are of far less interest to the archaeologist with regard to the study of homeland(s) and/or subsequent spread, may have a great deal to do with the fact that it is primarily speakers of Indo-European who address this topic in search of their own roots. [...] Although there is a consensus among archaeologists working on the steppes that the Andronovo culture is in the right place at the right time, and thus is to be considered Indo-Iranian, there is neither textual, ethnohistoric, nor archaeological evidence, individually or in combination, that offers a clinching argument for this consensus."
https://books.google.com/books?id=NDRRNGj17EMC&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=Thus,+there+is+an+equally+valid+quest+in+search ing+for+the+homeland+and+subsequent+migration+of+t he+Altaic+languages+%28Turkish,+Mongolian%29,+Ugri c+%28Finnish,+Hungarian,+Estonian%29+-+see+Gamkrelidze+and+Ivanov+for+a+full+listings+of +these+language+families+and+Elamo-Dravidian.&source=bl&ots=wYmPNr89ml&sig=U5f0avr2XByI-83hF5Qje2unSAk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aJrUUofTHcbWswbu2oGYAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Thus%2C%20there%20is%20an%20equally%20valid%20qu est%20in%20searching%20for%20the%20homeland%20and% 20subsequent%20migration%20of%20the%20Altaic%20lan guages%20(Turkish%2C%20Mongolian)%2C%20Ugric%20(Fi nnish%2C%20Hungarian%2C%20Estonian)%20-%20see%20Gamkrelidze%20and%20Ivanov%20for%20a%20fu ll%20listings%20of%20these%20language%20families%2 0and%20Elamo-Dravidian.&f=false

"A migration-free theory that assumes the continuity of all European and Asiatic populations from Paleo-/Mesolithic times is gaining consensus not only among prehistorians (cf., e.g., Marcel Otte's and Alexander Hausler's work) but also, and especially, among linguists (Alinei 1996-2000 n.d.; Ballester n.d; Cavazza 2001; Costa 1998; Poghirc 1992). In this framework not only Andronovo but also the whole cultural sequence that precedes it, from Srednyi Stog to the Pit Grave, Catacomb Grave, and Timber Grave cultures (cf. Makkay's comment), can only be seen as expressions of an already developed Turkic branch of the Altaic population, originating in Central Asia in Paleolithic times. Among other advantages, this conclusion produces (1) a straightforward explanation of the numerous Turkic loanwords for horse terminology in Samoyed and other Uralic languages, as well as in Slavic, and (2) a convergence between a hippocentric geo-cultural scenario, on the one hand, and the continuity of the archaeological record, on the other ("The steppe tribes of horse-breeders and mobile pastoralists had already begun, in the Copper Age, to play the role which they were to continue to play for the next 5,000 to 5,500 years of human history" [Chernykh 1992:42-3]), pace Anthony and other scholars who continue to cultivate the myth of the hippocentrism of the Indo-Europeans and the Indo-Iranians. The origin of the Iranians, in turn, must be sought in Iran itself, and their role in the steppes should be seen as an aspect of a later expansion from the south (see Khlopin 1990:177). The Bactrian Margiana complex, in my opinion correctly interpreted by Lamberg-Karlovsky as opposed to Andronovo, may well be an important aspect of the Iranians' earliest northern expansion."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/345686
https://i.imgur.com/vPiZkTL.jpg

Ancient Central Asia:
https://i.imgur.com/8KVoe9W.gif


https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/indo-european-indo-iranian-migrations-1100x481.jpg
Nice fantasy map. Here is original reality version...
https://i.imgur.com/Pl3FXFV.jpg
:coffee:

[Proto-Shaman]

It doesn't matter ,it's like they are a cousin tribe of ours...
We are all brothers in arms, but dark powers don't want us to reunite. We have to show the world the truth about our kinship.

[Blondie]

Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by turkic nationalist.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235891838_Haplogroup_R1a_as_the_Proto_Indo-Europeans_and_the_Legendary_Aryans_as_Witnessed_by _the_DNA_of_Their_Current_Descendants

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235891857_Haplogroup_R1a_Its_Subclades_and_Branche s_in_Europe_During_the_Last_9000_Years

https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=21698

https://indo-european.eu/tag/r1a-z93/

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201450

https://fabpedigree.com/s038/f150963.htm

Ancestor of r1a-z93 originated from Europe, do you really think turks are from Europe???

[Proto-Shaman]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235891838_Haplogroup_R1a_as_the_Proto_Indo-Europeans_and_the_Legendary_Aryans_as_Witnessed_by _the_DNA_of_Their_Current_Descendants

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235891857_Haplogroup_R1a_Its_Subclades_and_Branche s_in_Europe_During_the_Last_9000_Years

https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=21698
Seriously? Isn't it that guy who claimed R1b as Proto-Turkic Kurgan L23 warriors? This world is so crazy, don't you think?


https://indo-european.eu/tag/r1a-z93/
Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by eurocentric nationalist. Whereas all my sources are from neutral European researchers. :coffee:


https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201450
This map is based on that study btw:
https://i.imgur.com/bSuvYiI.jpg


https://fabpedigree.com/s038/f150963.htm
Kipchak Netanyahu's confirmed?
https://i.imgur.com/1au0ZqZ.gif


Ancestor of r1a-z93 originated from Europe, do you really think turks are from Europe???
Ancestor of R-M207 originated from Siberia, do you really think europeans are from Siberia?

You are so awesome, I like you :kiss2:

[Arhat]

Seriously? Isn't it that guy who claimed R1b as Proto-Turkic Kurgan L23 warriors? This world is so crazy, don't you think?


Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by eurocentric nationalist. Whereas all my sources are from neutral European researchers. :coffee:


This map is based on that study btw:
https://i.imgur.com/bSuvYiI.jpg


Kipchak Netanyahu's confirmed?
https://i.imgur.com/1au0ZqZ.gif


Ancestor of R-M207 originated from Siberia, do you really think europeans are from Siberia?

You are so awesome, I like you :kiss2:


The map is dumb. According to the map there is very low R1a in southeastern Afghanistan among Pashtuns but actually R1a is around 60-70% among South Pashtuns and around 50% among North Pashtuns. R1a is low among Kyrgyz just one province shows a lot because of founder effects.

[Blondie]

For example this is a typical fake map:

https://i.imgur.com/Pl3FXFV.jpg

Proto Kipchaks, chuvasians, baskhirs, khazaks lived 5000 years ago??? Are you retard? 5000 years ago there were no turkic subgroups only proto-turkic.


You are so awesome, I like you :kiss2:

Stop sending love emojis (i mean your early similar reputations too) because this is sexual harassing and i will report you. Leave me alone

[Leto]

Funnily he is not even R1a or R1b himself.
Also, I don't even see other Turks on TA supporting him and his ideas. They mostly don't care about R1a.

[Proto-Shaman]

The map is dumb. According to the map there is very low R1a in southeastern Afghanistan among Pashtuns but actually R1a is around 60-70% among South Pashtuns and around 50% among North Pashtuns. R1a is low among Kyrgyz just one province shows a lot because of founder effects.
Kyrgyz from China also have 68% R1a, we can't see them on the map, because R1a hotspot is within Kyrgyz borders. If you want to know why it's so disturbing for most pan-IE'ists, visit anthrogenica: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3788-Frequency-heatmap-of-R1a-Z93&p=67485&viewfull=1#post67485

DMXX is a specialist.
Eupedia is not academic and produces underground hobby maps.
Underhill's paper was published in a renowned scientific paper.

[Blondie]

Btw personally i think turkic peoples have great and nice history that's why i don't understand why are you clam everything? Being turkic is linguistically and culturally thing not genetically. Turkic peoples have full different genetic, anatolians are mostly J, turkmens are mostly Q, khazaks are C, baskhirs are r1b, yakuts are N, but it does not mean that every single haplogroup is turkic.

[Proto-Shaman]

For example this is a typical fake map:

https://i.imgur.com/Pl3FXFV.jpg

Proto Kipchaks, chuvasians, baskhirs, khazaks lived 5000 years ago??? Are you retard? 5000 years ago there were no turkic subgroups only proto-turkic.

Stop sending love emojis (i mean your early similar reputations too) because this is sexual harassing and i will report you. Leave me alone
Telengits have 5000 years history. Russia Today says so. Watch documentary on youtube :kiss2:

[Proto-Shaman]

Btw personally i think turkic peoples have great and nice history that's why i don't understand why are you clam everything? Being turkic is linguistically and culturally thing not genetically. Turkic peoples have full different genetic, anatolians are mostly J, turkmens are mostly Q, khazaks are C, baskhirs are r1b, yakuts are N, but it does not mean that every single haplogroup is turkic.
a little tiny reality reminder:

It is already obvious that the Turkic subclades of z-93 come from the Scythians. Turks are real "patrilineal Scythians". Turks do not claim, they are real descendants of the Scythians.

... never mind, I am here to enlighten you..

[Blondie]

:kiss2:

Stop it you retard.

[Leto]

Kyrgyz from China also have 68% R1a, we can't see them on the map, because R1a hotspot is within Kyrgyz borders. If you want to know why it's so disturbing for most pan-IE'ists, visit anthrogenica: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3788-Frequency-heatmap-of-R1a-Z93&p=67485&viewfull=1#post67485

DMXX is a specialist.
Eupedia is not academic and produces underground hobby maps.
Underhill's paper was published in a renowned scientific paper.
The Kirghiz ethnos was founded by Indo-Europeans and yes, they were described as white in several chronicles.

[Proto-Shaman]

Also, I don't even see other Turks on TA supporting him and his ideas. They mostly don't care about R1a.
Mhhhh, maybe, may-be (just theory) there are pretty much approximately 0,000130ß4% Turks who have R1a? Did you ever checked R1a maps for Anatolia? Looks like a silent desert. I have enough non-Turkic supporters in this forum. Sorry dude, you have to face my avatar every morning in your TA settings.

[Mingle]

If R-Z93 is Turkic in origin, then why do some North Indian groups (such as Bengali Brahmins) have such a high rate of R-Z93?

[Leto]

Mhhhh, maybe, may-be (just theory) there are pretty much approximately 0,000130ß4% Turks who have R1a? Did you ever checked R1a maps for Anatolia? Looks like a silent desert. I have enough non-Turkic supporters in this forum. Sorry dude, you have to face my avatar name every morning in your TA settings.
I wish the admins would consider your removal. Probably temporary, so that people don't get tired of your constant trolling and spamming.

[Proto-Shaman]

Stop it you retard.
... but.. I like you :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

I wish the admins would consider your removal. Probably temporary, so that people don't get tired of your constant trolling and spamming.
Did you know there are existing serious academic papers giving attention to Indo-European R1a Forum-troll fetishes? You are one of them. This is all you can do: wish wish wish. Ask Aladdin and his magic lamp, so, may one day your Indo-European steppe becomes reality.

[Proto-Shaman]

The Kirghiz ethnos was founded by Indo-Europeans and yes, they were described as white in several chronicles.
Do you have problem with "white" Proto-Turks? Do you see your trollish behavioral attitude? Everybody who looks "white" is Indo-European n' sheet. What if I would tell you Indo-Europeans are just a result of a creolized language development?

[Proto-Shaman]

If R-Z93 is Turkic in origin, then why do some North Indian groups (such as Bengali Brahmins) have such a high rate of R-Z93?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengrism#Relationship_with_shamanism

"On a scale of complexity Tengrism lies somewhere between the Proto-Indo-European religion (a pre-state form of pastoral shamanism on the western steppe) and its later form the Vedic religion. The eastern steppe where Tengrism developed had more centralized, hierarchical polities than the western steppe. Tengrism has been noted as more centralized, less polytheistic, less myth-intensive and more historically focused than the paganism that grew out of the western Proto-Indo-European religion. Nonetheless, the chief god Tengri (Heaven) is considered strikingly similar to the Indo-European sky god *Dyeus and the structure of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion is closer to that of the early Turks than to the religion of any people of Near Eastern or Mediterranean antiquity."

[Blondie]

If R-Z93 is Turkic in origin, then why do some North Indian groups (such as Bengali Brahmins) have such a high rate of R-Z93?

Because the complete universe is turkic.

[Proto-Shaman]

Because the complete universe is turkic.

Because ancient Turks had an outstanding favour for mass orgies with non-Turkic females:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?280973-R1a-Z93-Indo-Iranian-or-Turkic&p=5856855&viewfull=1#post5856855

[Ülev]

nice thread, as usually

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Iranic.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

R1a,R1b & Q are turkic

rest is non-turkic

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

R1a,R1b & Q are turkic

rest is non-turkic

Turanist clowns are most cringe people around. R1 got nothing to do with you until you inveded previously white Central Asia and mixed with Aryans.

[Leto]

Do you have problem with "white" Proto-Turks? Do you see your trollish behavioral attitude? Everybody who looks "white" is Indo-European n' sheet. What if I would tell you Indo-Europeans are just a result of a creolized language development?
I do have because they simply weren't white just like modern East Asians or Siberians are not. As simple as that. Finns are not IE by the way but they are the whitest in terms of looks, even too much to my taste (I prefer more Central European (Germanic, West Slavic) looks).

[Proto-Shaman]

nice thread, as usually
Turan causes brain cancer in the enemies brains :bleedingeyes: and zombie-like reactions :vampire:
https://i.imgur.com/Ia5U8Wu.jpg

Doctor Kipchak Hakan tries his best to heal the world from this cancer:
https://i.imgur.com/a7ZcYOc.jpg

This meme war is so epic.. place Trump: this is so true..

[Leto]

Turanist clowns are most cringe people around. R1 got nothing to do with you until you inveded previously white Central Asia and mixed with Aryans.
Well, even Göktürks in Kazakhstan 500-600 AD were already like 50% European (a lot of EHG admixture). But let's say in 500 BC the proto-Turkics somewhere in modern Western China were most likely fully Asian.

[Arhat]

Do you have problem with "white" Proto-Turks? Do you see your trollish behavioral attitude? Everybody who looks "white" is Indo-European n' sheet. What if I would tell you Indo-Europeans are just a result of a creolized language development?

Your Y-dna was enslaved by my R1a-Z93 ancestors/relatives. So i understand why you are so obsessed with my ancestors.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Well, even Göktürks in Kazakhstan 500-600 AD were already like 50% European (a lot of EHG admixture). But let's say in 500 BC the proto-Turkics somewhere in modern Western China were most likely fully Asian.

Yep

Original Turks were mongoloids.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Kipchak Hakan, if Cengiz was alive he would chop your head off for being an idiot. Haplogroup R is not Turkic. Stop wasting everyone's time please it's not funny anymore.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Turkic is C, Q, N and another one

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

Some subclades of N might be turkic.. finns have n too, they are not turkic tho.

[Leto]

Because ancient Turks had an outstanding favour for mass orgies with non-Turkic females:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?280973-R1a-Z93-Indo-Iranian-or-Turkic&p=5856855&viewfull=1#post5856855
Yes, and that's why it's fucking retarded to use modern Turkic-speaking nations as proof for the supposed Turkic origin of some hgs. And by the way, why so much attention to R1a? You aren't even R1a. I don't see you talking about J2 or G2 or C3 or whatever else that much. Turks of Turkey are less than 10% R1a.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

Real native europeans are I & G

[Proto-Shaman]

I do have because they simply weren't white just like modern East Asians or Siberians are not. As simple as that. Finns are not IE by the way but they are the whitest in terms of looks, even too much to my taste (I prefer more Central European (Germanic, West Slavic) looks).
originally POSTED (and again deleted for some reason) BY MACIAMO 15/09/2013

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?218018-Europe-WITHOUT-Indoeuropeans-(&p=4574548&viewfull=1#post4574548

Where the Indo-Europeans came from:

66456

In the past, everyone from K2 was considered mongoloid by academia, except for the Indo-Europeans. Then genetics finds Indo-Europeans are in the family of K2 with the Chinese, Koreans, Native Americans, Papuans and Finns. Then they find the evidence that Indo-Europeans were not European looking coming out of Asia and are just like their K2 family.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?181008-Was-Haplogroup-R-originally-mongoloid&p=4727021&viewfull=1#post4727021

The entire K2 and descendants haplogroups were all mongoloids (Chinese, Koreans, Malayan, Finns, Native Americans) and Negroids (the Papuans).

The pre-Proto-Europeans were mongoloids with Mongoloid features/looks. These Mongoloid features were lost by most during the Proto-Indo-European and Indo-European conquest of Europe. Although some aryan tribes today still exist with full mongoloid features/looks.


Just check the phylogeny. If a deep subclade, like Q1a2a1c, is found in Europe are the same as in Mongolia, then it means that the common ancestor for this subclade is too recent to be a Palaeolithic offshoot from Siberia to Europe. You have to look at the TMRCA otherwise it's impossible to determine the historical time frame for each subclade.

Obviously, if you found some Q*, Q1* or even Q1a* in Europe, then it could have come during the Ice Age.

It's case by case, as it depends on their subclade, but ultimately the patrilineal ancestor of haplogroup Q was Siberian and probably Mongoloid looking. That being said, it is not even sure that the Huns still looked Asian by the time they reached Central Europe, as they had been mixing with Europid/Caucasian people for many generations. What is certain is that the Vikings that brought Q1a to the British Isles did not look any more Asian than their I1, R1a and R1b comrades. Actually there is not much difference between Q, R1a and R1b in this regard. The original R1 ancestors also had Mongoloid features. This is sure from the testing of the 24,000 year-old Siberian Mal'ta boy, who belonged to R1* and was of the Mongoloid type. The main difference is that R1a and R1b people migrated west earlier and therefore mixed with Caucasoid people well before people of haplogroup Q. But anyway it only takes a few generations for Mongoloid features to be completely faded by intermarriage.

source: https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/

69069

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Real native europeans are I & G

G is Anatolian farmer, not native European. Thing is Europeans did not exist before Indo-European R1b and R1a conquered. They lived in Europe anyway, Pontic steppe is European land.

[Blondie]

Turkic is C, Q, N and another one

C is mongol, N is finno-ugric. 90% of haplogroup N population is finno-ugric speaker:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_%28ADN-Y%29.PNG

Or do you think finns are turks too?

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

G is Anatolian farmer, not native European. Thing is Europeans did not exist before Indo-European R1b and R1a conquered. They lived in Europe anyway, Pontic steppe is European land.

Borders of Roman Empire = Europe

Anyway g in europe is older than r1a/r1b...

[Arhat]

I embrace my R1a turanid ancestors,one more great people in our family trees!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmI3vAIhbE

Unironically i find mongol and non-muslim Turkic cultures quite fascinating. They were definitely great warriors and took many cultural elements from East Iranic Scythians/Saka. The early elite among Turks was often of East Iranic origin (Ashina) and already Proto-Turks had an important Tocharian and Iranic substrate. But all this does not change the fact that R1a-Z93 is Indo-European and that Central Asia and the western steppe became only recently non-Indo-European.

[Leto]

G is Anatolian farmer, not native European. Thing is Europeans did not exist before Indo-European R1b and R1a conquered. They lived in Europe anyway, Pontic steppe is European land.
Yes, the oldest R1a sample (pre-CW) posted by Peterski was from Kharkiv oblast, Eastern Ukraine.

[Arhat]

Borders of Roman Empire = Europe

Anyway g in europe is older than r1a/r1b...

R1b was already found in Italy 14000 years ago but this clade died out is not directly related to modern day R1b in Europe.

[Proto-Shaman]

Your Y-dna was enslaved by my R1a-Z93 ancestors/relatives. So i understand why you are so obsessed with my ancestors.
My Y-dna took his revenge in Attila's ranks :rolleyes:
https://i.imgur.com/4nkKrj0.png

[Leto]

Borders of Roman Empire = Europe

Yes, exactly Syria, Egypt, Algeria, Libya are in Europe while Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, European Russia are not. :rolleyes:

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Borders of Roman Empire = Europe

Anyway g in europe is older than r1a/r1b...

LMAO

[Blondie]

Borders of Roman Empire = Europe

By that logic Germany is not in Europe but Egypt is european country.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

There is R1a sample in Karelia dated to mesolithic. :rolleyes:

[Ülev]

from Latin euro - east, pa(rt/s) - east part = conquered territories (with introduced new religion etc.)




eurus, euri
#13

noun

declension: 2nd declension
gender: masculine

Definitions:

east (or south east) wind
the east

Age: In use throughout the ages/unknown
Area: All or none
Geography: All or none
Frequency: For Dictionary, in top 20,000 words
Source: General, unknown or too common to say

http://latin-dictionary.net/search/english/east

so actually yes, not Roman Empire = Europe - lands conquered by Rome

[Leto]

Unironically i find mongol and non-muslim Turkic cultures quite fascinating. They were definitely great warriors and took many cultural elements from East Iranic Scythians/Saka. The early elite among Turks was often of East Iranic origin (Ashina) and already Proto-Turks had an important Tocharian and Iranic substrate. But all this does not change the fact that R1a-Z93 is Indo-European and that Central Asia and the western steppe became only recently non-Indo-European.
Actually I like Turkic languages. I am not fluent in any, not even on a basic level but I studied a bit of Azerbaijani Turkish. I like their grammar, very logical. I imagine the proto speakers to have been some high IQ mongoloids :D

[Dorian]

The divine truth shall be shared ,turns out most "europeans" are Eurasian hybrids,that's why other races think of "europeans" as evil and destructive imperialists and those from central to north europe as robotic-submissive(unless manipulated by a strong and smart pre-eurasian leader)-asian/souless- like ,the higher the turanid admixture,the higher these traits.
And that's also why we had democracy and large part of Southerners are attracted to anarchism while the rest have/had monarchies,kings,national "socialism" and communism.Two different worlds.
They always like to say "asians are copycats of "white"civilization" ,guess what now?

You can even see it in their psyche ,they don't care about real culture,only for some steppe psychopathic blood-thirsty warriorz who were depigmented,that's how shallow they are.They don't deserve to be called europeans.Their future islamization will bring their turkicness out.
Original Europeans Ev13/I/J2/J1/G shall regain these lands.

[Proto-Shaman]

Kipchak Hakan, if Cengiz was alive he would chop your head off for being an idiot. Haplogroup R is not Turkic. Stop wasting everyone's time please it's not funny anymore.
Mankurts like you would have been boiled alive in Genghis Khan's times.

[Mingle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengrism#Relationship_with_shamanism

"On a scale of complexity Tengrism lies somewhere between the Proto-Indo-European religion (a pre-state form of pastoral shamanism on the western steppe) and its later form the Vedic religion. The eastern steppe where Tengrism developed had more centralized, hierarchical polities than the western steppe. Tengrism has been noted as more centralized, less polytheistic, less myth-intensive and more historically focused than the paganism that grew out of the western Proto-Indo-European religion. Nonetheless, the chief god Tengri (Heaven) is considered strikingly similar to the Indo-European sky god *Dyeus and the structure of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion is closer to that of the early Turks than to the religion of any people of Near Eastern or Mediterranean antiquity."

So North Indians are also Turks, huh. Just when I thought I heard it all...

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Hunter Gatherers from Iron Gates (Serbia/Romania border) carried clade of R1b that is today most common in West Africa, also.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

The divine truth shall be shared ,turns out most "europeans" are Eurasian hybrids,that's why other races think of "europeans" as evil and destructive imperialists and those from central to north europe as robotic-submissive(unless manipulated by a strong and smart pre-eurasian leader)-asian/souless- like ,the higher the turanid admixture,the higher these traits.
And that's also why we had democracy and large part of Southerners are attracted to anarchism while the rest have/had monarchies,kings,national "socialism" and communism.Two different worlds.
They always like to say "asians are copycats of "white"civilization" ,guess what now?

You can even see it in their psyche ,they don't care about real culture,only for some steppe psychopathic blood-thirsty warriorz who were depigmented,that's how shallow they are.They don't deserve to be called europeans.Their future islamization will bring their turkicness out.
Original Europeans Ev13/I/J2/J1/G shall regain these lands.

Yes, E from Somalia and J from Iran are original European and White markers :laugh:
G is Anatolian. Only I is European from those you named, and R1a/R1b.

[Proto-Shaman]

Yes, and that's why it's fucking retarded to use modern Turkic-speaking nations as proof for the supposed Turkic origin of some hgs. And by the way, why so much attention to R1a? You aren't even R1a. I don't see you talking about J2 or G2 or C3 or whatever else that much. Turks of Turkey are less than 10% R1a.
I know something you do not know. But I won't reveal it yet. The truth should be perfectly timed.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

By that logic Germany is not in Europe but Egypt is european country.

From historic point of view: egypt is more european than germany indeed.

its just since the romans have won battles against germans/pagans, those regions became european. thank ceaser and later vatican for this.

[Ülev]

from Latin euro - east, pa(rt/s) - east part = conquered territories (with introduced new religion etc.)



eurus, euri
#13

noun

declension: 2nd declension
gender: masculine

Definitions:

east (or south east) wind
the east

Age: In use throughout the ages/unknown
Area: All or none
Geography: All or none
Frequency: For Dictionary, in top 20,000 words

http://latin-dictionary.net/search/english/east

so actually yes, not Roman Empire = Europe - lands conquered by Rome

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

From historic point of view: egypt is more european than germany indeed.

its just since the romans have won battles against germans/pagans, those regions became european. thank ceaser and later vatican for this.

Roman Empire was never called Europe or European. It was Med Empire streching from Europe to Middle East and Africa. Original term Europa was coined by Greeks.

Europe as modern term was born with Germans/Franks lulz.

[Blondie]

The divine truth shall be shared ,turns out most "europeans" are Eurasian hybrids,that's why other races think of "europeans" as evil and destructive imperialists and those from central to north europe as robotic-submissive(unless manipulated by a strong and smart pre-eurasian leader)-asian/souless- like ,the higher the turanid admixture,the higher these traits.
And that's also why we had democracy and large part of Southerners are attracted to anarchism while the rest have/had monarchies,kings,national "socialism" and communism.Two different worlds.
They always like to say "asians are copycats of "white"civilization" ,guess what now?

You can even see it in their psyche ,they don't care about real culture,only for some steppe psychopathic blood-thirsty warriorz who were depigmented,that's how shallow they are.They don't deserve to be called europeans.Their future islamization will bring their turkicness out.
Original Europeans Ev13/I/J2/J1/G shall regain these lands.

Only haplogroup I is native european. J2, J1, G Ev13 is not native.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

R1b was already found in Italy 14000 years ago but this clade died out is not directly related to modern day R1b in Europe.

I mean descendants of m269 and m417..

[Proto-Shaman]

Unironically i find mongol and non-muslim Turkic cultures quite fascinating. They were definitely great warriors and took many cultural elements from East Iranic Scythians/Saka. The early elite among Turks was often of East Iranic origin (Ashina) and already Proto-Turks had an important Tocharian and Iranic substrate. But all this does not change the fact that R1a-Z93 is Indo-European and that Central Asia and the western steppe became only recently non-Indo-European.
The only hope for your argumentation is a pseudo-linguistic approach in order to keep the Indo-European comfort zone clean from non-dogmatic science?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashide

what happened to the "n"? :rolleyes:

[Leto]

From historic point of view: egypt is more european than germany indeed.

its just since the romans have won battles against germans/pagans, those regions became european. thank ceaser and later vatican for this.
Yes, you should thank them too because you ain't white even in fucking Belarus :lol:

[Blondie]

egypt is more european than germany indeed.

Are you mentaly retarded?

[Dorian]

Yes, E from Somalia and J from Iran are original European and White markers :laugh:
G is Anatolian. Only I is European from those you named, and R1a/R1b.

It was them who created the name so they're its godfathers.
No problem then Europe became what it is because of these afro-levantines and was invaded by asians,kick those asians out.

[Proto-Shaman]

Yes, the oldest R1a sample (pre-CW) posted by Peterski was from Kharkiv oblast, Eastern Ukraine.
Yes, and I have run all autosomal calculators ;)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It was them who created the name so they're its godfathers.
No problem then Europe became what it is because of these afro-levantines and was invaded by asians,kick those asians out.

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[Dorian]

From historic point of view: egypt is more european than germany indeed.

its just since the romans have won battles against germans/pagans, those regions became european. thank ceaser and later vatican for this.

Original hamitics without arabic-ssa admixture are indeed more european that those depigmented europeanized turkic people.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

R1a's r1b's should unite against the rest

i don't care under which umbrella this happens (turanism, eurocentrism etc)

[Leto]

Yes, and I have run all autosomal calculators ;)
You haven't reached my level of GED-masturbation. I run myself through Eurogenes every night in order to not forget how much Baltic, North Atlantic and Siberian I am.

[Blondie]

The divine truth shall be shared ,turns out most "europeans" are Eurasian hybrids,that's why other races think of "europeans" as evil and destructive imperialists and those from central to north europe as robotic-submissive(unless manipulated by a strong and smart pre-eurasian leader)-asian/souless- like ,the higher the turanid admixture,the higher these traits.
And that's also why we had democracy and large part of Southerners are attracted to anarchism while the rest have/had monarchies,kings,national "socialism" and communism.Two different worlds.
They always like to say "asians are copycats of "white"civilization" ,guess what now?

You can even see it in their psyche ,they don't care about real culture,only for some steppe psychopathic blood-thirsty warriorz who were depigmented,that's how shallow they are.They don't deserve to be called europeans.Their future islamization will bring their turkicness out.
Original Europeans Ev13/I/J2/J1/G shall regain these lands.

So majority of germans or anglos are asian hybrids?

[lonewolfcypriot]

Mankurts like you would have been boiled alive in Genghis Khan's times.

omg are you still talking? please go to bed it's past your bed time.

[Dorian]

Only haplogroup I is native european. J2, J1, G Ev13 is not native.

Yes but I's are the brother tribe of the J's ubermenschs before they splitted,they waited for their brothers to come and tell them that "these lands we'll name them Europe"

[Leto]

Dorian would accept a bunch of Somalis as Greeks if they agreed to learn Greek and adopt Orthodox Christianity and Hellenic culture.

[Proto-Shaman]

So North Indians are also Turks, huh. Just when I thought I heard it all...
You have to study Nuristani and Kalash languages to understand this. There is something called a substrate language among these tribes.

[Dorian]

So majority of germans or anglos are asian hybrids?

I don't remember their percentages,just replace r1a/r1b with turanid admixture.Even we Greeks have it unfortunately.

[lonewolfcypriot]

You have to study Nuristani and Kalash languages to understand this. There is something called a substrate language among these tribes.

:picard1:

[Dorian]

Dorian would accept a bunch of Somalis as Greeks if they agreed to learn Greek and adopt Orthodox Christianity and Hellenic culture.

Skip to 2:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCVrFOaWLOU

[Ryuk]

Same bullshits, with old stale argumants.:coffee::bored:

[Blondie]

I don't remember their percentages,just replace r1a/r1b with turanid admixture.Even we Greeks have it unfortunately.

Haplogroup map of Europe:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Percentage_of_major_Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Europe.png/1200px-Percentage_of_major_Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_Europe.png

You said r1a and r1b population is not european but eurasian hybrids. So according to you germans, anglos, french, spaniards, poles, russians and 90% of Europe is not european, right?

[Dorian]

Haplogroup map of Europe:

You said r1a and r1b population is not european but eurasian hybrids. So according to you germans, anglos, french, spaniards, poles, russians and 90% of Europe is not european, right?

Unfortunately yes but some of them are saved due to different autosomal admixtures so we can make some exceptions.In the case of a Greater Serbia(paleobalkan I admixture) and Russia the power of their culture is so strong that it supresses any asianess.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Dorian would accept a bunch of Somalis as Greeks if they agreed to learn Greek and adopt Orthodox Christianity and Hellenic culture.

if he can except pontians he can accept Somalis no problem.

[Leto]

if he can except pontians he can accept Somalis no problem.
Pontians don't have black blood. Somalis are considered black.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Pontians don't have black blood. Somalis are considered black.

that comment was autistic and racist at the same time.

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

R1a's r1b's should unite against the rest

i don't care under which umbrella this happens (turanism, eurocentrism etc)

autosomal dna is overrated because it's unreliabe and changeable. y-dna is the real deal here because they never lie...

[Proto-Shaman]

You haven't reached my level of GED-masturbation. I run myself through Eurogenes every night in order to not forget how much Baltic, North Atlantic and Siberian I am.

never forget 42 is the limit :laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/F1i122H.png

[Leto]

that comment was actually racist.
Yours or mine? I enjoy this politically incorrect place. It's not fucking Anthrogenica where they cringe because of words like black, white, race or Mongoloid. I don't call 'em out on that because if they ban me, I won't be able to browse the forum anymore.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Your or mine? I enjoy this politically incorrect place. It's not fucking Anthrogenica where they cringe because of words like black, white, race or Mongoloid. I don't call 'em out on that because if they ban me, I won't be able to browse the forum anymore.

I think many people on here need to focus on real life rather than browsing these forums 24-7

[dosas]

Skip to 2:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCVrFOaWLOU

This is genuinely the coolest and funniest thing I've seen in a while :thumb001:.

[Proto-Shaman]

be honoured... nobody has ever done this before
https://i.imgur.com/kLxPTo4.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCNrK-n68CM

[Dorian]

This is genuinely the coolest and funniest thing I've seen in a while :thumb001:.

In case you didn't know check this guy's channel ,he has hundreds of similar videos.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQuMEejVcSDg8rtOlWmEqJw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcJQ9LyyXnw

[Chelubey]

It is noteworthy that the common ancestor of the Finno-Ugric people(N) lived 10,000 years ago.
But the Finno-Ugric peoples were divided linguistically about 5,000 years ago.
It seems normal. But the time of divergence of subclades of the haplogroup R1a coincides with the time of separation of ie languages: 5.5-6 years ago.
An epic picture appears: 5.5-6 years ago an IE man lived who had 10 sons: Greek, Slav, Celt, Armenian, Aryan, and so on, who went their separate ways.

[Ülev]

Zhumazhan Baijumin (historian, author of many books)
only in Russian language


https://youtu.be/5RkQf93ep1Q


https://youtu.be/vgktByl_vrU

[Ayetooey]

Poor R1a.

[Proto-Shaman]

Poor R1a.
They have the biggest identity crisis in human history. Very sad.

[Tanais]

Proto Kipchaks, chuvasians, baskhirs, khazaks lived 5000 years ago??? Are you retard? 5000 years ago there were no turkic subgroups only proto-turkic.
https://i.imgur.com/i61qxjM.png

[Chelubey]

This proves that Turkistan = Turan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turan_(Sasanian_province)


Turan (also spelled Turgistan and Turestan) was a province of the Sasanian Empire located in present-day Pakistan.[1] The province was mainly populated by Indians,[2] and bordered Paradan in the west, Hind in the east, Sakastan in the north, and Makuran in the south.[3] The main city and bastion of the province was Bauterna (Khuzdar/Quzdar).
The province was mainly populated by Indians,[2] and bordered Paradan in the west, Hind in the east, Sakastan in the north, and Makuran in the south.[3] The main city and bastion of the province was Bauterna (Khuzdar/Quzdar).[2] The province was originally a kingdom, before submitting to the first Sasanian monarch Ardashir I (r. 224–242).[4] It was governed by the Sakanshah, the first notable one being Ardashir I's grandson, Narseh.[5][6] The province is mentioned in Shapur I's inscription at the Ka'ba-ye Zartosht.[

The 19th-century historian Wilhelm Tomaschek suggested that the name of Turan possibly derived from the Iranian word tura(n), meaning "hostile, non-Iranian land".[4] The name was also used in the Iranian national epic Shahnameh ("The Book of Kings") to denote the lands above Khorasan and the Oxus River, later viewed as the land of the Turks and other non-Iranians.

Very curious, Turkic people in Pakistan during the Sassanian Empire.
Pashtun R1a-z2124 probably from them.