Has the Pontid phenotype been misappropriated by European TA Taxonomists?

[Dna8]

Contemplation inspired by taxonomical discussion in another thread by Shelati et NarLFC (2019).

[leonj]

-

can you please explain a bit more?

[Dna8]

Is Pontid overused/misused in the European aesthetic context?

[Dna8]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/bd6749c4c73a9f47be275a6fa39626f9/tenor.gif

[leonj]

Is Pontid overused/misused in the European aesthetic context?

I think Pontid or Pontic Mediterranean is typical Pontic Greek look but I am not sure

[Kaspias]

I think Pontid or Pontic Mediterranean is typical Pontic Greek look but I am not sure

Totally wrong

[Blondie]

I think Pontid or Pontic Mediterranean is typical Pontic Greek look but I am not sure

North Pontid is an east european steppe phenotype.

[Kaspias]

North Pontid is an east european steppe phenotype.North Pontid is not a true type.

[FinalFlash]

North Pontid is an east european steppe phenotype.

Maybe so, but we are talking about standard Pontids, which isnt a uniquely European phenotype.

[Blondie]

Maybe so, but we are talking about standard Pontids, which isnt a uniquely European phenotype.

East Mediterranean, can be balkanite, ukrainian, turkish, caucasian and middle eastern.

[Kaspias]

East Mediterranean, can be balkanite, ukrainian, turkish, caucasian and middle eastern.

N.Pontid is fake type and haven't been mentioned in anywhere except an USSR antropologist. Pontid is not east med but Steppe-Med type common in Balkans, Caucasia, Anatolia and Ukraine even in whole Eastern Europe. The type we call as North Pontid is just Pontid with light eyes. Because both are metrically same.

Levant Med (East med) is basically orientalid effected med and not same with Pontid although we use the term "Pontid" as East med it is not accurate..

[FinalFlash]

N.Pontid is fake type and haven't been mentioned in anywhere except an USSR antropologist. Pontid is not east med but Steppe-Med type common in Balkans, Caucasia, Anatolia and Ukraine even in whole Eastern Europe. The type we call as North Pontid is just Pontid with light eyes. Because both are metrically same.

Levant Med (East med) is basically orientalid effected med and not same with Pontid although we use the term "Pontid" as East med it is not accurate..

I agree with your assertions except the "East Med" part. Its not a thing because it's a bullshit made up fairytale type.

[madeinromania]

Pontids formed in subtropical climate in Turkey and than pontids migration to west caucasus & pontic steppe.

[Kaspias]

I agree with your assertions except the "East Med" part. Its not a thing because it's a bullshit made up fairytale type.Yeah i know it is bullshit and fairytale type. I would evaluate Levantine Meds as Orientalid but not Pontid. I just wanted to state it. Otherwise i agree with you.

[FinalFlash]

Yeah i know it is bullshit and fairytale type. I would evaluate Levantine Meds as Orientalid but not Pontid. I just wanted to state it. Otherwise i agree with you.

I think the "east med" in Levantines is simply Gracile Med laced with some other stuff like Iranid maybe or as you said Orientalid and possibly Anatolid.

[Papastratosels26]

Who cares it is an outdated science.

[Kaspias]

I think the "east med" in Levantines is simply Gracile Med laced with some other stuff like Iranid maybe or as you said Orientalid and possibly Anatolid.

Exactly. Changing region to region actually. Med phenotype in Kurds can be gracile+iranid while in Arabs it is gracile+orientalid.

[Dna8]

I like to imagine "East Med" as evoking, either, Mediterranid clay shaped by an Iranic aficionado-designer.. or a West Asian pillow, fluffed by a Mediterranean tending aesthetic direction.

[Kess]

Who cares it is an outdated science.

it is actually not even a science

[Dna8]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/2791a5f9b236b49a8a35df18a608031d/tenor.gif

[madeinromania]

East mediterranid group is

1. classic Pontid
2. Levant-Israel-Syria mediterannid (Orientalid influence)
3. North pontid (Baltid influence)
4. Steppe Pontid (Turanid influence)
+
5. Caspian race (iranid influence)

[madeinromania]

North Pontid is an east european steppe phenotype.

true in Pontic steppe is mixed Pontid + Baltid (North Pontid)

[Blondie]

true in Pontic steppe is mixed Pontid + Baltid (North Pontid)

Yes, North Pontid is a northern shifted Pontid type with minor nordid admixture.

[Blondie]

East mediterranid group is

1. classic Pontid
2. Levant-Israel-Syria mediterannid (Orientalid influence)
3. North pontid (Baltid influence)
4. Steppe Pontid (Turanid influence)
+
5. Caspian race (iranid influence)

Steppe Pontid = West Turanid

[leonj]

Yeah i know it is bullshit and fairytale type. I would evaluate Levantine Meds as Orientalid but not Pontid. I just wanted to state it. Otherwise i agree with you.


I think the "east med" in Levantines is simply Gracile Med laced with some other stuff like Iranid maybe or as you said Orientalid and possibly Anatolid.

East Meds are Armenoid because they are usually brachy
https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/reeh/maps/mapxiii.jpg

[leonj]

East mediterranid group is

1. classic Pontid
2. Levant-Israel-Syria mediterannid (Orientalid influence)
3. North pontid (Baltid influence)
4. Steppe Pontid (Turanid influence)
+
5. Caspian race (iranid influence)

isn't Armenoid also East Med?

[madeinromania]

Steppe Pontid = West Turanid

https://scontent.fiev21-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25442898_177113032875293_6664842503030648344_n.png ?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev21-2.fna&oh=c5eb49793b0888170a44b0bfcc57283f&oe=5D229745

[FinalFlash]

East Meds are Armenoid because they are usually brachy
https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/reeh/maps/mapxiii.jpg

They dont exist and I'm no anthropologist but I'm certain Armenoids aren't the only brachy type that exists. Besides, a GM and Armenoid blend create the Anatolid type, no? Are Levantines predominantly Anatolid?

[Kaspias]

East Meds are Armenoid because they are usually brachy
https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/reeh/maps/mapxiii.jpg

Can be any phenotype. The context is it is gracile + x. There is no such a phenotype called as east med. Also cephalic index not always enough while identifying phenotype. I'm hyperbrachy but pontid.

[leonj]

They dont exist and I'm no anthropologist but I'm certain Armenoids aren't the only brachy type that exists. Besides, a GM and Armenoid blend create the Anatolid type, no? Are Levantines predominantly Anatolid?

I think coastal Levantines look like Anatolians. I think most of them are mixed with neither North Africans nor gulf Arabians

[leonj]

Can be any phenotype. The context is it is gracile + x. There is no such a phenotype called as east med. Also cephalic index not always enough while identifying phenotype. I'm hyperbrachy but pontid.

what cephalic index range is considered hyperbrachy?

[Kaspias]

I think coastal Levantines look like Anatolians. I think most of them are mixed with neither North Africans nor gulf Arabians

Because Anatolians have Levant influence

[madeinromania]

isn't Armenoid also East Med?

armenoids is not mediterranid group is Balkan-Caucasian race group (Mtebit, Alpine, Dinarids, Armenoids)

[Kaspias]

what cephalic index range is considered hyperbrachy?

85+. I'm 86

[FinalFlash]

I think coastal Levantines look like Anatolians. I think most of them are mixed with neither North Africans nor gulf Arabians

Then I guess the Anatolid type(when ascribed to Levantines) is incorrectly classified as "East Med" simply because of geographical proximity of the denizens of the Levant to the Mediterranean.

[Nurzat]

East mediterranid group is

1. classic Pontid
2. Levant-Israel-Syria mediterannid (Orientalid influence)
3. North pontid (Baltid influence)
4. Steppe Pontid (Turanid influence)
+
5. Caspian race

most people in the region do seem to look Pontid in the eastern Balkans (south Romania, Bulgaria, Istanbul, Turkish movies) and Northpontid in southern Ukraine for example:

Pontid & North Pontid
http://humanphenotypes.net/pontidm.jpghttp://humanphenotypes.net/northpontidm.jpg


do you think I am a good example of Pontid? (do you see other influence?):

https://scontent.fsbz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52592451_10211395134553933_7344261791167283200_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-1.fna&oh=a88016aa4fc5d9f4d5db527740463b70&oe=5D1F3361https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52637304_10211402898068016_6344341130611523584_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-2.fna&oh=6c59a5cdb6ee333a191eb3e6adbf16c8&oe=5D2682BChttps://scontent.fotp1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41878342_10210489874002985_6499268761416105984_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fotp1-2.fna&oh=7eaec4fc3b045a9d329f65716d4fb479&oe=5D1C9B47

[FinalFlash]

Because Anatolians have Levant influence

I'd argue that any Levantine influence that they may or may not have is absolutely trumped by Anatolian influences in Levantines(namely Druze)

[madeinromania]

most people in the region do seem to look Pontid in the eastern Balkans (south Romania, Bulgaria, Istanbul, Turkish movies) and Northpontid in southern Ukraine for example:

Pontid & North Pontid
http://humanphenotypes.net/pontidm.jpghttp://humanphenotypes.net/northpontidm.jpg


do you think I am a good example of Pontid? (do you see other influence?):


in east Balkans live more Dinarids and Alpinids (Pontids >%10).
In Ukraine steppe live more Pontid + Baltid.
Turkish mostly Pontid live in Black sea Region

Your phenotype is dinarid + alpinid + mediteranid

[Dna8]

I would love for Kozak to opine with an indepth and heartfelt and above all, raw, contribution to this thread.

[madeinromania]

I would love for Kozak to opine with an indepth and heartfelt and above all, raw, contribution to this thread.

:wink

[Nurzat]

in east Balkans live more Dinarids and Alpinids (Pontids >%10).
In Ukraine steppe live more Pontid + Baltid.
Turkish mostly Pontid live in Black sea Region

Your phenotype is dinarid + alpinid + mediteranid


sorry I rarely see Dinarids and Alpinids in northeast Romania (Moldova) except for Bucovina region (northwest Moldova), while they are abundant in southwest and west Romania (Banat + Transylvania).

also, Pontid really is very common in south Romania (Wallachia) and south Moldova, while Northpontid fairly common in central Moldova - although not dolicho (dolicho heads are very rare in Romania - Romanians are mostly very roundheaded/flat occiput/potato heads).

[madeinromania]

sorry I rarely see Dinarids and Alpinids in northeast Romania (Moldova) except for Bucovina region (northwest Moldova), while they are abundant in southwest and west Romania (Banat + Transylvania).

also, Pontid really is very common in south Romania (Wallachia) and south Moldova, while Northpontid fairly common in central Moldova - although not dolicho (dolicho heads are very rare in Romania - Romanians are mostly very roundheaded/flat occiput/potato heads).

this is not a Pontid! This is a classic and gracial mediterranids that came from romance tribes

[Nurzat]

this is not a Pontid! This is a classic and gracial mediterranids that came from romance tribes

but they don't look Italian or Greek, this is what I'm saying. they still look Balkanic. if you look at the photo of the Pontid example - do you think he looks Romance (Italian)? Romanian 'Meds' rarely look Italo-Greek (i.e. properly Med)

[madeinromania]

but they don't look Italian or Greek, this is what I'm saying. they still look Balkanic. if you look at the photo of the Pontid example - do you think he looks Romance (Italian)? Romanian 'Meds' rarely look Italo-Greek (i.e. properly Med)

Pontids look like more Turkish

[Nurzat]

Pontids like more Turkish

I understand - anytime I see Turkish movies I am amazed how similar to Romanians they look. but then when I see Turks in real life they look totally different, never do they look like the Turks in the movies. those in the movies are the Pontids (Istanbul)?

like Cansu Dere:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/49/13/aa4913e8e72ed55d6fbe971f1b5a20f2.jpg

[madeinromania]

I understand - anytime I see Turkish movies I am amazed how similar to Romanians they look. but then when I see Turks in real life they look totally different, never do they look like the Turks in the movies. those in the movies are the Pontids (Istanbul)?

like Cansu Dere:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/49/13/aa4913e8e72ed55d6fbe971f1b5a20f2.jpg

East med + little turanid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/49/13/aa4913e8e72ed55d6fbe971f1b5a20f2.jpg


She is better. This is True Pontid female from Turkey

https://pp.userapi.com/c851128/v851128727/d1fae/AlMCMtkvY6I.jpg

[Nurzat]

East med + little turanid

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/49/13/aa4913e8e72ed55d6fbe971f1b5a20f2.jpg


She is better. This is True Pontid female from Turkey

https://pp.userapi.com/c851128/v851128727/d1fae/AlMCMtkvY6I.jpg

can you give us examples of Pontid men too? it seems this type looks so good - please accept me as Pontid xD

[Ice]

I find pontid women the most beautiful women on earth

[Tommie]

Yes, very much so, actually. Many times when someone happens to be a Med type and is not from Western Europe, tends to get classifed as Pontid even if it's not the case. People are just biased with ethnicity/nationality.

[Tommie]

can you give us examples of Pontid men too? it seems this type looks so good - please accept me as Pontid xD
You're not Pontid, man :) Pontids have high, broad foreheads, softer features and are in meso-dolicho range.
Examples of Pontids

https://i.imgur.com/2rAUgLA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yNUpCVK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rwfN0yv.png


The second woman posted above by madeinromania is also a good example.

[madeinromania]

You're not Pontid, man :) Pontids have high, broad foreheads, softer features and are in meso-dolicho range.
Examples of Pontids

https://i.imgur.com/2rAUgLA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/yNUpCVK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rwfN0yv.png


The second woman posted above by madeinromania is also a good example.

girl some alpine influence with small nose basicaly she is Pontid

[Speedy Freedy]

Pontid:
http://i67.tinypic.com/w0nw5e.jpg

North Pontid:
http://i63.tinypic.com/6iwdjr.jpg

[andrzej]

most people in the region do seem to look Pontid in the eastern Balkans (south Romania, Bulgaria, Istanbul, Turkish movies) and Northpontid in southern Ukraine for example:

Pontid & North Pontid
http://humanphenotypes.net/pontidm.jpghttp://humanphenotypes.net/northpontidm.jpg


do you think I am a good example of Pontid? (do you see other influence?):

https://scontent.fsbz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52592451_10211395134553933_7344261791167283200_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-1.fna&oh=a88016aa4fc5d9f4d5db527740463b70&oe=5D1F3361https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52637304_10211402898068016_6344341130611523584_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-2.fna&oh=6c59a5cdb6ee333a191eb3e6adbf16c8&oe=5D2682BChttps://scontent.fotp1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41878342_10210489874002985_6499268761416105984_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fotp1-2.fna&oh=7eaec4fc3b045a9d329f65716d4fb479&oe=5D1C9B47
North Pontids are common through out Ukraine, southern Ukraine has way more actual Pontids (former Taurida, New Serbia, and parts of Donetsk) in specific regions but migration from the North and Russia has obscure that to different extents. Ukrainian descendants in the Kuban are also largely Southern Ukrainian and you can see their phenotypes among Kuban Cossacks.