Portugal vs Spain, who is the darker nation ( dark hair & eyes)?

[Septentrion]

I heard some Portuguese say that the Spaniards are the darker Iberians, while Spaniards saying it is the Portuguese who are swarthy. What do you say?

[Zuh]

Make a poll i would like to see.

https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif

[leonj]

Portugal

[Supercomputer]

I would say Portugal although Spain doesn't have many publicly available studies. Portuguese are 22% light eyed and Spaniards 20% "Light by Beddoe" referring to English ethnologist who considered green eyes as dark. So Spain is 20% blue and gray plus an unknown amount of green - likely a bit more than Portugal in total.

[Roy]

Portugal is darker.

[Blondie]

Portugal

[HechtFans]

Portugal...


In addition there are many heirs of slaves-African parents from the colonial era.

[Rouxinol]

Only ignorants who don't live here will say that Spain is lighter (due to its proximity to France - they forget Spain also borders MOROCCO). However, there's a massive difference and phenotypical distance between the Spanish and the French across the Pyrenees (a natural racial barrier).

The Spanish, in general, have more exotic types of the kind of Antonio Banderas or Anne Hidalgo or HechtFans up here.

I find that light-mixed and blue eyes are more FREQUENT in Portugal than in Spain too.

But I live here, have traveled extensively in both countries, and I'm no Hungarian or someone in the other end of Europe, so I know better than anyone else here that lives there or across the ocean in the New World.

[Vasconcelos]

Portugal...


In addition there are many heirs of slaves-African parents from the colonial era.

Yeah, countless. We're all half black

[HechtFans]

Only ignorants who don't live here will say that Spain is lighter (due to its proximity to France - they forget Spain also borders MOROCCO). However, there's a massive difference and phenotypical distance between the Spanish and the French across the Pyrenees (a natural racial barrier).

The Spanish, in general, have more exotic types of the kind of Antonio Banderas or Anne Hidalgo or HechtFans up here.

I find that light-mixed and blue eyes are more FREQUENT in Portugal than in Spain too.

But I live here, have traveled extensively in both countries, and I'm no Hungarian or someone in the other end of Europe, so I know better than anyone else here that lives there or across the ocean in the New World.

Portugal is (almost) one more province of Spain. Add to it that there is a lot of influence from the African slaves of the colonial era.

[Rouxinol]

Make a poll i would like to see.

https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif

Most ignorants here will say Spain because they think the border with France is somewhat magical and immediately gives the Spanish some sort of lightness over the others. But they forget about the Pyrenees, the biggest racial barrier in Europe. They also seem to omit the fact that Spain borders Morocco. So, no need for a poll. I'm giving you the result beforehand.

[Rouxinol]

Portugal is (almost) one more province of Spain. Add to it that there is a lot of influence from the African slaves of the colonial era.

What influence? SSA in the mainland Portuguese is just a bit higher than in the Spanish, to the point of irrelevance. If we have more blacks and mulattos in Portugal? Yes, we do, large portions of Africa were Portuguese territory up until 1975 and many people from those places migrated here after independence.

[HechtFans]

Most ignorants here will say Spain because they think the border with France is somewhat magical and immediately gives the Spanish some sort of lightness over the others. But they forget about the Pyrenees, the biggest racial barrier in Europe. They also seem to omit the fact that Spain borders Morocco. So, no need for a poll. I'm giving you the result beforehand.

Portugal is the whole of the Iberian Peninsula and has the same limits as Spain

[Rouxinol]

Portugal is the whole of the Iberian Peninsula and has the same limits as Spain

Portugal doesn't have cities in North Africa as Spain has (Ceuta and Melilla). And mainland Spain is closer to Morocco than Portugal, just about 13 km away across the Strait of Gibraltar.

[HechtFans]

What influence? SSA in the mainland Portuguese is just a bit higher than in the Spanish to the point of irrelevance. If we have more blacks and mulattos in Portugal? Yes, we do, large portions of Africa were Portuguese territory up until 1975 and many people from those places migrated here after independence.

https://i.ibb.co/XV5jKV8/5aa995a1b0042-r-191483-0-21-830-436.jpg (https://ibb.co/0Q9m6Qt)

https://i.ibb.co/NNyqVPf/espana.jpg (https://ibb.co/wQzq0X8)



And little interraciality if there is ...

And by the way, it gives me absolutely the same if the Spaniards are Nordic or African. I´m not a supremacist and the average Spanish is Mediterranean, typical of southern Europe, without more.


But let's not miss the truth, please ..

[Catarinense1998]

Both countries have been infected.

[Rouxinol]

And little interraciality if there is ...

And by the way, it gives me absolutely the same if the Spaniards are Nordic or African. I´m not a supremacist and the average Spanish is Mediterranean, typical of southern Europe, without more.


But let's not miss the truth, please ..

And the point of posting a Portuguese team that is mostly non-ethnic Portuguese with a Spanish team that is mostly ethnic Spanish is? You're comparing oranges with apples. It's the same as posting Spanish gypsies and passing them for ethnic Spanish.

This thread is meant to turn us against each other. We shouldn't feed it...

[PT Tagus]

Football players don't represent whole nation.

[HechtFans]

Football players don't represent whole nation.


It doesn´t represent an entire nation but if of 11 players, only 2 are "white" then ...

[HechtFans]

And the point of posting a Portuguese team that is mostly non-ethnic Portuguese with a Spanish team that is mostly ethnic Spanish is? You're comparing oranges with apples. It's the same as posting Spanish gypsies and passing them for ethnic Spanish.

This thread is meant to turn us against each other. We shouldn't feed it...


I agree with that last one. It seems that it is the main objective of this forum ...

[caviezel]

Only ignorants who don't live here will say that Spain is lighter (due to its proximity to France - they forget Spain also borders MOROCCO). However, there's a massive difference and phenotypical distance between the Spanish and the French across the Pyrenees (a natural racial barrier).
naa.

[HechtFans]

And the point of posting a Portuguese team that is mostly non-ethnic Portuguese with a Spanish team that is mostly ethnic Spanish is? You're comparing oranges with apples. It's the same as posting Spanish gypsies and passing them for ethnic Spanish.

This thread is meant to turn us against each other. We shouldn't feed it...


I agree with that last one. It seems that it is the main objective of this forum ...

[Bellbeaking]

Portugal seems a bit darker to me but only just

Most countries in W Europe have a NE to SW cline for lightness (UK) (germany) (France), I don't think Iberia is an exception. Yes Spain borders morocco, but Portugal has more non European admixture. Spain also received more BBC + Celtic admixture

[Supercomputer]

Not a very big sample size but Spanish WC team has much more light eyes than Portuguese (only ethnic Portuguese counted)

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team/43963/
https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team/43963/

Coon's map also shows Spain lighter. However Portugal is probably a bit lighter than Greece tho. It could be even lighter than Albania.

[HechtFans]

Not a very big sample size but Spanish WC team has much more light eyes than Portuguese (only ethnic Portuguese counted)

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team/43963/
https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/team/43963/

Coon's map also shows Spain lighter. However Portugal is probably a bit lighter than Greece tho. It could be even lighter than Albania.


He has twice put the Portuguese national team

[Cristiano viejo]

Portugal with no doubt. Everyone who had been in both countries will agree with this.

[Catarinense1998]

Perfect thread to make trouble and create hate.

[alnortedelsur]

Most ignorants here will say Spain because they think the border with France is somewhat magical and immediately gives the Spanish some sort of lightness over the others. But they forget about the Pyrenees, the biggest racial barrier in Europe. They also seem to omit the fact that Spain borders Morocco. So, no need for a poll. I'm giving you the result beforehand.

The Gibraltar strait has been much more a racial barrier than the Pyrenees. That's why Spaniards (and Portuguese, of course) are much more related to other Europeans than to Moroccans.

[Cristiano viejo]

The Gibraltar strait has been much more a barrier than the Pyrenees. That's why Spaniards (and Portuguese, of course) are much more related to other Europeans than to Moroccans.

The bordier between Spain and Portugal = a little Strait of Gibraltar too.

[Rouxinol]

The Gibraltar strait has been much more a barrier than the Pyrenees. That's why Spaniards (and Portuguese, of course) are much more related to other Europeans than to Moroccans.

Well, so be it. I'm not in the mood to feed this fight anymore. Visit both countries, different regions and so on and make your own conclusions. I don't care much if we're darker or lighter on average. I'd rather be Portuguese anyway.

[JMack]

The most important question is: who has the biggest cocks?

[Ice]

Spain

[Kess]

Portugal I think

[Finnish Swede]

Make a poll i would like to see.

https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif

Me too...
https://i.ibb.co/g7PyMvj/popcorn-kopio.jpg

[HechtFans]

The most important question is: who has the biggest cocks?

The Whatsapp Nigga

[JMack]

The Whatsapp Nigga

Believe it or not but I never saw this meme.

[Hyoga7]

It doesn´t represent an entire nation but if of 11 players, only 2 are "white" then ...

Only 2? At least you have to concede that Fonte, Patrício, Ronaldo, Silva, Soares are white.
Pepe is Brazilian like Diego Costa and Rodrigo. The other five are from former African colonies: William Carvalho (born in Angola), Nani (parents from Cabo Verde), Eliseu (Cabo Verde origins), Renato Sanches (parents from São Tomé e Príncipe and Cabo Verde), João Mário (origins in Angola).
History is what it is. Portugal has an old relationship with Africa.

Sports and entertainment are avenues for minorities. A football team isn't representative; it's not the same as choosing a group of 11 doctors.
We can cherry pick: Raul Meireles vs. Sergio Busquets, but Spain's team seems to be majority native. One has to give credit to the good formation work done at the youth level in Spain.
A while back some users had a thread on rink hockey (sport still very local and native) and how the Portuguese players were lighter and less exotic than the Spanish (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279875-Porto-team-VS-Galician-team-Main-phenotypes).

What about France? How many native Europeans? Even Griezmann is half Portuguese on his maternal side.

Portugal has 10 million inhabitants; Spain has 46 million.
Anyway, the trend (very low birth rates among the natives; high levels of immigration) is changing the picture. The videos of ships arriving in the beaches of Andalusia have given 11% to Vox.
How many years until your national team has a majority of players with foreign background?

Demographics is almost irreversible and the whole of Europe will change in the next decades.

[Hyoga7]

The most important question is: who has the biggest cocks?

It's a Russian guy named Viktor!

Where is Nigga? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZMQoscWRg4

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The most important question is: who has the biggest cocks?

https://thumbnails-visually.netdna-ssl.com/average-penis-length-in-europe_56c79e75151cd.jpg

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

North western areas seem to have more tanned and darker skinned occurances. Portugal seems a bit closer to that than the rest of spain
From what I see online about portugal, portugal has better traditional culture.

[The Blade]

Portugal has more blond hair and light eyes.
Also, more Atlantic and Upper Paleolithic influences.

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

Portugal has more blond hair and light eyes.
Also, more Atlantic and Upper Paleolithic influences.This is true, this seems to be the case when looking at them. They usually have tanned skin and blonde/ brown hair. Spaniards are typically dark haired or brown haired

[Bellbeaking]

This is true, this seems to be the case when looking at them. They usually have tanned skin and blonde/ brown hair. Spaniards are typically dark haired or brown haired

is there a cause of this you can think of?

[Mimi]

Portugal

[JMack]

Spain is darker.

[HechtFans]

Spain is darker.


Spain is a typical country of southern Mediterranean Europe, with Celtic and African mixture. The average Spaniard is like me more or less. Beard and dark hair, fair skin and generally dark eyes, medium-low stature, etc.

The difference between the average spaniard and me is that my body is more robust and my eyes a little clearer, but everything else would be typical spanish.

[Sebastianus Rex]

I dont know why the insistance in this ? I already posted the only credible and large pigmentation studies done on both countries several times.

According to prof. Hoyos Sainz and phd Eusébio Barbosa Tamagnini studies, indicated Portugal a higher incidence of blondism and light eyes.

Blond and light brown hair frequencies:

- 20% Portugal (higher among females - 23%)

- 14.5% Spain - national average (reaching higher frequencies in some northern regions with the exception of Catalonia), as high as 30% in the Aragonese Pyrinees and as low as as 4% in Tierra de Campos (Castilla-Leon..from where CV is from).

Coon points 17% (based on previous 3rd party sources, since he was never in the Iberian Peninsula), still lower than the Portuguese average in any case.

Red hair:
Portugal - 3%
Spain: 1%


Light eyes:
- Portugal : 22-25% (16% light eyes of several colors + 6-9% dark blue eyes)
- Spain : 18% - national average (reaching as much as 35% in the north of Navarra and as low as 12% in Canary islands, and for example 21% in Catalonia and Ebro valley wich is still slightly under the Portuguese average).

This is what the only large and reliable pigmentation studies indicate, the rest is pointless opinions of people who dont actually have a clue, based on unscientific internet maps and cherrypicked football players spammed on this forum.

As a whole, Spain is darker when we compare the studies made on ethnic populations of both countries. That's what studies done on native populations in the first half of the 20th century, a period that preceded mass migration of foreigners, indicated.

Now that Portugal has a higher number of people with some ex colonial background that have been assimilated over the past 5 decades it is another discussion, following that logic France will probably be darker than all European countries in a matter of a couple of decades.

[The Blade]

Blond and light brown hair frequencies:

Is the percent combined for both or a similar value for each?

[Sebastianus Rex]

Is the percent combined for both or a similar value for each?

Combined.

[The Blade]

Combined.
Thank you! Seems close to what I have seen both among tourists who visit my city and people posted on the net.

[Tooting Carmen]

How long is a piece of string?

[Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin]

How long is a piece of string?2 long?

[Latinus]

Don't really know, but the diferences are small.

[Faklon]

Coon's map also shows Spain lighter. However Portugal is probably a bit lighter than Greece tho. It could be even lighter than Albania.

Yes, Greece and Albania are darker than both Iberians and North-Caucasians when they cluster between the 2 without SSA nor Turanic admixture, and every renown anthropologist(Coon, Schiff, Deniker) claimed the reverse. Septentrion and his anthrotard clone spoke.

[JMack]

...

[Roi_Xordo]

In my opinion, the difference isn't clear and there isn't a "big divide" between the two countries.
Northern Spain, however, may have a bigger concentration of light features than what you could find in the average portuguese town (and southern spain) but as i said before, the difference isn't drastic.

Basques may have the bigger concentration of lighter/robust features in the whole peninsulae

[Kamal900]

Not sure, but the differences between them isn't really all that great. In fact, I think they're pretty similar regardless on what some Iberians claim otherwise.

[Carlito's Way]

To be honest, it is Portugal

[Supercomputer]

I dont know why the insistance in this ? I already posted the only credible and large pigmentation studies done on both countries several times.

According to prof. Hoyos Sainz and phd Eusébio Barbosa Tamagnini studies, indicated Portugal a higher incidence of blondism and light eyes.

Blond and light brown hair frequencies:

- 20% Portugal (higher among females - 23%)

- 14.5% Spain - national average (reaching higher frequencies in some northern regions with the exception of Catalonia), as high as 30% in the Aragonese Pyrinees and as low as as 4% in Tierra de Campos (Castilla-Leon..from where CV is from).

Coon points 17% (based on previous 3rd party sources, since he was never in the Iberian Peninsula), still lower than the Portuguese average in any case.

Red hair:
Portugal - 3%
Spain: 1%


Light eyes:
- Portugal : 22-25% (16% light eyes of several colors + 6-9% dark blue eyes)
- Spain : 18% - national average (reaching as much as 35% in the north of Navarra and as low as 12% in Canary islands, and for example 21% in Catalonia and Ebro valley wich is still slightly under the Portuguese average).

This is what the only large and reliable pigmentation studies indicate, the rest is pointless opinions of people who dont actually have a clue, based on unscientific internet maps and cherrypicked football players spammed on this forum.

As a whole, Spain is darker when we compare the studies made on ethnic populations of both countries. That's what studies done on native populations in the first half of the 20th century, a period that preceded mass migration of foreigners, indicated.

Now that Portugal has a higher number of people with some ex colonial background that have been assimilated over the past 5 decades it is another discussion, following that logic France will probably be darker than all European countries in a matter of a couple of decades.

I think you are wrong. Portugal is 22,3% light eyed according to Tamagnini, not 22-25%. 7,1% are pure blue.

According to Hoyos Sainz, Spain is 20% "light by Beddoe" referring to English anthropologist who considered green eyes as dark. Blue and Gray are 16,3% and 10,3% pure blue.

So Spain seems to be lighter in eye color.

Hair is more difficult to compare because one has to consider age of the subjects, plus I haven't seen any hair color studies o Spain across all regions.

[Megamind]

spain is woggier

[TheMaestro]

PT hands down.

[Visage pâle]

Only ignorants who don't live here will say that Spain is lighter (due to its proximity to France - they forget Spain also borders MOROCCO). However, there's a massive difference and phenotypical distance between the Spanish and the French across the Pyrenees (a natural racial barrier).

In Valencia Aragon Murcia Catalonia, there were extrapeninsular migrations during centuries, mostly from France, Italy and french catalonia. It's not surprising since they were part of the same dynasty for a very long time.

[Visage pâle]

I think you are wrong. Portugal is 22,3% light eyed according to Tamagnini, not 22-25%. 7,1% are pure blue.

According to Hoyos Sainz, Spain is 20% "light by Beddoe" referring to English anthropologist who considered green eyes as dark. Blue and Gray are 16,3% and 10,3% pure blue.

So Spain seems to be lighter in eye color.

Hair is more difficult to compare because one has to consider age of the subjects, plus I haven't seen any hair color studies o Spain across all regions.

According to studies i 've read, 20-25% of spanish are light eyed (including 15% blue eyes), 20-30 % have light mixed (hazel eyes, greenish etc). Dark eyes are arround 50% including 15-20% of dark brown.

[Rouxinol]

In Valencia Aragon Murcia Catalonia, there were extrapeninsular migrations during centuries, mostly from France, Italy and french catalonia. It's not surprising since they were part of the same dynasty for a very long time.

So many people there are not fully ethnic Spanish after all, since those "migrations" were relatively recent.

[Visage pâle]

So many people there not fully ethnically Spanish after all, since those "migrations" were relatively recent.

Many catalans/valencian surnames looks occitan or even french ( Boix, Piqué, Gilabert, Pujol, etc)

[Latinus]

To be honest, it is Portugal

Can you develop more? When it comes to Iberia you seem to be very impartial, and since you visited both countries...

[Supercomputer]

According to studies i 've read, 20-25% of spanish are light eyed (including 15% blue eyes), 20-30 % have light mixed (hazel eyes, greenish etc). Dark eyes are arround 50% including 15-20% of dark brown.

What studies did you read? Seem legit.

[Rouxinol]

My estimates, based on the observation of pupils from schools in my area (south of Lisbon, where there are people from all over the country) are:
- blue eyes: 12%
- light-mixed eyes (including blue eyes): about 25%
People who don't have access to this know next to nothing so their opinions are meaningless and based on pictures of football players and the national football team (which is as foreign as the French one - if not actually more so). Even tourists, if they come to any major urban center or the Algarve, will come across lots of dark-skinned immigrants from former Portuguese colonies, so what they have to say is not of much relevance to me - it's irrelevant.

[Visage pâle]

What studies did you read? Seem legit.

It's in french "la couleur des yeux à l'époque du premier empire" from Jacques Houdaille.

[Cristiano viejo]

Portugal has more blond hair and light eyes.
Also, more Atlantic and Upper Paleolithic influences.
The day that you visit both countries you will say the opposite.


Yes, Greece and Albania are darker than both Iberians and North-Caucasians when they cluster between the 2 without SSA nor Turanic admixture, and every renown anthropologist(Coon, Schiff, Deniker) claimed the reverse. Septentrion and his anthrotard clone spoke.
Happens that Iberians are not 40% Middle East like you.


In my opinion, the difference isn't clear and there isn't a "big divide" between the two countries.
Northern Spain, however, may have a bigger concentration of light features than what you could find in the average portuguese town (and southern spain) but as i said before, the difference isn't drastic.

Basques may have the bigger concentration of lighter/robust features in the whole peninsulae
No, Galicians do.


So many people there are not fully ethnic Spanish after all, since those "migrations" were relatively recent.

It is like saying there are not fully ethnic Portuguese, since they were Spaniards in origin :rolleyes:

[Supercomputer]

My estimates, based on the observation of pupils from schools in my area (south of Lisbon, where there are people from all over the country) are:
- blue eyes: 12%
- light-mixed eyes (including blue eyes): about 25%
People who don't have access to this know next to nothing so their opinions are meaningless and based on pictures of football players and the national football team (which is as foreign as the French one - if not actually more so). Even tourists, if they come to any major urban center or the Algarve, will come across lots of dark-skinned immigrants from former Portuguese colonies, so what they have to say is not of much relevance to me - it's irrelevant.

https://i.postimg.cc/gkNLb5vq/Eye-Color-Portugal-Provinces.png

https://i.postimg.cc/dVf7LyNh/Hair-color-Portugal.png

Light eyes

https://i.postimg.cc/fLCD04W8/Portugal-Light-eyes.png

[Supercomputer]

It's in french "la couleur des yeux à l'époque du premier empire" from Jacques Houdaille.

This is France not Spain.

[Rouxinol]

Light eyes

https://i.postimg.cc/fLCD04W8/Portugal-Light-eyes.png

The area on which I based my estimates is the one on the map showing 16% of light eyes, which at the time of those studies was mostly rural and sparsely inhabited. Since the 1960s people from all over the country settled there so that might have increased the %. My estimate seems to be more or less in line with the totals for the country.

[Cristiano viejo]

From my experience in North Portugal, blue eyes not even reach 10%.

29%... WTF...

[Visage pâle]

This is France not Spain.

This is mostly for France but there are also differents countries, including Spain.

[Sp_loa]

I dont know why the insistance in this ? I already posted the only credible and large pigmentation studies done on both countries several times.

According to prof. Hoyos Sainz and phd Eusébio Barbosa Tamagnini studies, indicated Portugal a higher incidence of blondism and light eyes.

Blond and light brown hair frequencies:

- 20% Portugal (higher among females - 23%)

- 14.5% Spain - national average (reaching higher frequencies in some northern regions with the exception of Catalonia), as high as 30% in the Aragonese Pyrinees and as low as as 4% in Tierra de Campos (Castilla-Leon..from where CV is from).

Coon points 17% (based on previous 3rd party sources, since he was never in the Iberian Peninsula), still lower than the Portuguese average in any case.

Red hair:
Portugal - 3%
Spain: 1%


Light eyes:
- Portugal : 22-25% (16% light eyes of several colors + 6-9% dark blue eyes)
- Spain : 18% - national average (reaching as much as 35% in the north of Navarra and as low as 12% in Canary islands, and for example 21% in Catalonia and Ebro valley wich is still slightly under the Portuguese average).

This is what the only large and reliable pigmentation studies indicate, the rest is pointless opinions of people who dont actually have a clue, based on unscientific internet maps and cherrypicked football players spammed on this forum.

As a whole, Spain is darker when we compare the studies made on ethnic populations of both countries. That's what studies done on native populations in the first half of the 20th century, a period that preceded mass migration of foreigners, indicated.

Now that Portugal has a higher number of people with some ex colonial background that have been assimilated over the past 5 decades it is another discussion, following that logic France will probably be darker than all European countries in a matter of a couple of decades.

So Northern Spain Pyrenees area is the lightest in Iberia... Interesting.

I saw In this Forum more light Portuguese compared to Spaniard but I can't judge from this. Regardless of pigmentation I find more similarity in facial features between my maternal family to Portuguese than to Spaniards. Portuguese have more Alpine and CM (Berid, Paleo-Atlantid) which is more what I have in my maternal family.

For example this Portuguese boy would pass easily in mom's family but I can't imagine him as Spaniard not because of coloring but because of facial features:

https://i.ibb.co/YRvPtq5/download.jpg

Making me think either I have Portuguese either Galician ancestry (Galicians are the only Spaniards similar to the Spanish looking people in my family, in facial features)

[Latinus]

^^^^^ The Portuguese boy looks like a high school American student, very generic Euro look in my opinion.

[Rouxinol]

From my experience in North Portugal, blue eyes not even reach 10%.

29%... WTF...

What part you don't understand that your experience means nothing? You didn't went to school with those people, you didn't interact with them all your life, etc. You can't judge from a few trips to Porto, Coimbra, etc. Sorry. Now, mind about Spain and leave Portugal for the Portuguese.

[Sp_loa]

^^^^^ The Portuguese boy looks like a high school American student, very generic Euro look in my opinion.

I have somewhat similar facial features. Berid or something. I have Different nose but similar vibe. Maybe my lost cousin haha.
My mom has Very Western Features too.

[alnortedelsur]

So Northern Spain Pyrenees area is the lightest in Iberia... Interesting.

I saw In this Forum more light Portuguese compared to Spaniard but I can't judge from this. Regardless of pigmentation I find more similarity in facial features between my maternal family to Portuguese than to Spaniards. Portuguese have more Alpine and CM (Berid, Paleo-Atlantid) which is more what I have in my maternal family.

For example this Portuguese boy would pass easily in mom's family but I can't imagine him as Spaniard not because of coloring but because of facial features:

https://i.ibb.co/YRvPtq5/download.jpg

Making me think either I have Portuguese either Galician ancestry (Galicians are the only Spaniards similar to the Spanish looking people in my family, in facial features)


^^^^^ The Portuguese boy looks like a high school American student, very generic Euro look in my opinion.

I'm mostly of Spanish stock, and I have a similar kind of look as that guy.

[Sp_loa]

I'm of mostly Spanish stock, and I have a similar kind of look as that boy.

Are you Galician?

[Latinus]

I'm of mostly Spanish stock, and I have a similar kind of look as that boy.

Yeah, I remember your face (you also posted your sister), your phenotype is very Pan-Euro. Funny how people think you look mulatto and CV mestizo, but you guys look completely diferent.
That boy, like you, doesn't give me a ubber Portuguese vibe, but generic/Pan-Euro.

[alnortedelsur]

Are you Galician?

No, my mom is a Spaniard from Mallorca, and it looks like I also have some distant ancestry from Castilla-Leon.

This is the map (from 23anme) of my Spanish ancestral locations:

https://i.imgur.com/qQHO2bw.png

[Catarinense1998]

Yeah, I remember your face (you also posted your sister), your phenotype is very Pan-Euro. Funny how people think you look mulatto and CV mestizo, but you guys look completely diferent.
That boy, like you, doesn't give me a ubber Portuguese vibe, but generic/Pan-Euro.

Do you think that exist iberians which look just portuguese/spanish? I mean, there is an unique portuguese look?

[Sp_loa]

Yeah, I remember your face (you also posted your sister), your phenotype is very Pan-Euro. Funny how people think you look mulatto and CV mestizo, but you guys look completely diferent.
That boy, like you, doesn't give me a ubber Portuguese vibe, but generic/Pan-Euro.

The boy could have been the twin brother of my great-aunt
https://ibb.co/jbGoHU
Very familiar face in my family...

I think she looks more Portuguese than Spanish if any of those. What do you think?

[Sp_loa]

Do you think that exist iberians which look just portuguese/spanish? I mean, there is an unique portuguese look?

I think there is West Iberian vs East Iberian. Not necessarily the division between Spain and Portugal.

[Catarinense1998]

I think there is West Iberian vs East Iberian. Not necessarily the division between Spain and Portugal.

Interesting. Can you give me examples? I have no ideia.

[Latinus]

Do you think that exist iberians which look just portuguese/spanish? I mean, there is an unique portuguese look?

I do believe there is a kind of vibe that looks more Portuguese than Spanish, but I doubt these people would look off in Spain.
I think a distinctive Iberian look is more common than an unique Portuguese one.

[Sp_loa]

Interesting. Can you give me examples? I have no ideia.

The picture of my great-aunt I posted few comments ago, and that boy.. both look more West Iberians than East-Iberian IMO

[Latinus]

The boy could have been the twin brother of my great-aunt
https://ibb.co/jbGoHU
Very familiar face in my family...

I think she looks more Portuguese than Spanish if any of those. What do you think?

Not sure if she looks more Portuguese than Spanish, but the vibe is very Iberian to me.

[alnortedelsur]

Yeah, I remember your face (you also posted your sister), your phenotype is very Pan-Euro. Funny how people think you look mulatto and CV mestizo, but you guys look completely diferent.
That boy, like you, doesn't give me a ubber Portuguese vibe, but generic/Pan-Euro.

I remember that in the forum Italic roots they portrayed me and Tooting Carmen as very likely looking like two Latino mongrels, without having a fucking clue about how we look like.

Regarding me, you know how I look like, and Tooting Carmen has a very Northwestern Euro look (though he is half British).

CV also looks very Euro, and they portray him as looking as a typical panchito. Lol at them :lol:

[Kivan]

To be honest, who gives a fuck?

[Sp_loa]

Not sure if she looks more Portuguese than Spanish, but the vibe is very Iberian to me.

Yes I agree. I just think that in Western Iberia they have more noses like this (super snub) and they have more Grey-Blue eyes.

[Rouxinol]

Yeah, I remember your face (you also posted your sister), your phenotype is very Pan-Euro. Funny how people think you look mulatto and CV mestizo, but you guys look completely diferent.
That boy, like you, doesn't give me a ubber Portuguese vibe, but generic/Pan-Euro.

The über Portuguese vibe on anthrofora is the vibe people get from the TONS of pictures of football players, many of which are half-breds and not fully Portuguese (even Cristiano Ronaldo isn't 100% ethnic Portuguese).

As to the boy, he is a regular boy. The boy in the picture below, Ruben Cavaco, from the depths of Alentejo, and who was attacked by two Iraqis almost to death, is just another example of a Portuguese regular boy.

https://cdn1.newsplex.pt/fotos/2017/8/17/599494.png?type=Artigo

Does he look American to you?

[Ryuk]

Canarian islanders.

[Catarinense1998]

The über Portuguese vibe on anthrofora is the vibe people get from the TONS of pictures of football players, many of which are half-breds and not fully Portuguese (even Cristiano Ronaldo isn't 100% ethnic Portuguese).

As to the boy, he is a regular boy. The boy in the picture below, Ruben Cavaco, from the depths of Alentejo, and who was attacked by to Iraqis almost to death, is just another example of a Portuguese regular boy.

Does he look American to you?

Honestly, if you did not say that he is portuguese, my first guess would be Pardo/Brazilian.

[Sp_loa]

Honestly, if you did not say that he is portuguese, my first guess would be Pardo/Brazilian.

He can pass as Pan Southern Euro and in all latin America Not such a strong Western vibe like the first boy.

[Latinus]

The über Portuguese vibe on anthrofora is the vibe people get from the TONS of pictures of football players, many of which are half-breds and not fully Portuguese (even Cristiano Ronaldo isn't fully ethnic Portuguese).

As to the boy, is a regular boy. This boy below, Ruben Cavaco, from deep Alentejo, and who was attacked by to Iraqis almost to death, is just another example of a Portuguese regular boy.

https://cdn1.newsplex.pt/fotos/2017/8/17/599494.png?type=Artigo

Rossignol, I'm not talking about mongrels/exotic Portuguese, but average Portuguese. That boy looks Portuguese because he is one, but he is not ubber Portuguese, he looks white American/generic Euro. He could easily pass as an average American joe called John Smith Chambers. He doesn't have a distinctive Portuguese vibe. I'm not being fooled by footeball players, I know soccer teams have many mongrels/exotic individuals;
This is a type that looks ubber Portuguese to me:
https://static.otvfoco.com.br/2016/04/pedro-carvalho.jpg

[Rouxinol]

Honestly, if you did not say that he is portuguese, my first guess would be Pardo/Brazilian.

What a joke. I think you're too used to pardos around you.

http://images.impresa.pt/visao/2016-09-28-Ruben-Cavaco-2/fb/wm

You are the PARDO. :lol:

And a Castilian ass-licker as well.

[Latinus]

Honestly, if you did not say that he is portuguese, my first guess would be Pardo/Brazilian.

It's because many pardos look like him, more shifted to Euro (phenotype).
I can kind of understand your point, he is common here and many pardos look not very diferent from Portuguese fully phenotype.

[Rouxinol]

Rossignol, I'm not talking about mongrels/exotic Portuguese, but average Portuguese. That boy looks Portuguese because he is one, but he is not ubber Portuguese, he looks white American/generic Euro. He could easily pass as an average American joe called John Smith Chambers. He doesn't have a distinctive Portuguese vibe. I'm not being fooled by footeball players, I know soccer teams have many mongrels/exotic individuals;
This is a type that looks ubber Portuguese to me:
https://static.otvfoco.com.br/2016/04/pedro-carvalho.jpg

He looks uber Medish, not specifically Portuguese in my opinion. I don't think there's an uber Portuguese look to be honest. What is that supposed to mean, a phenotype that is more frequent here than anywhere else? Or one that is the majority? Because he definitely isn't what the majority looks like.

[Catarinense1998]

What a joke. I think you're too used to pardos around you.

You are the PARDO. :lol:

And a Castilian ass-licker as well.

I'm not pardo, and I'm not an iberian ass licker. I'm just stating my opinion you dumb cod.

[alnortedelsur]

Yes I agree. I just think that in Western Iberia they have more noses like this (super snub) and they have more Grey-Blue eyes.

Regarding grey-blue eyes, I'm not sure if you're right on it, but regarding the snub noses, it is true that it is a frequent trait among Portuguese and western Iberia in general (not only Portugal), though it doesn't prevent most of them from passing through all Iberia, including eastern Spain.

As somebody said earlier on this thread, there is a western Iberian vibe and an eastern Iberian vibe, but most of the differences between them are slight.

[Rouxinol]

I'm not pardo, and I'm not an iberian ass licker. I'm just stating my opinion you dumb cod.

You love to lick Castilian ass, I've noticed that.
Comparing a pardo to this boy has to be a trolling attempt.

http://images.impresa.pt/visao/2016-10-07-GRS-RUBEN-277.jpg/original/mw-860

[Sp_loa]

Regarding grey-blue eyes, I'm not sure if you're right on it, but regarding the snub noses, it is true that it is a frequent trait among Portuguese and western Iberia in general (not only Portugal), though it doesn't prevent most of them from passing through all Iberia, including eastern Spain.

As somebody said earlier on this thread, there is a western Iberian vibe and an eastern Iberian vibe, but most of the differences between them are slight.

I think most people in my family look more West Iberian. Can I send you some pictures in PM?

[alnortedelsur]

I think most people in my family look more West Iberian. Can I send you some pictures in PM?

sure

[Latinus]

He looks uber Medish, not specifically Portuguese in my opinion. I don't think there's an uber Portuguese look to be honest. What is that supposed to mean, a phenotype that is more frequent here than anywhere else? Or one that is the majority? Because he definitely isn't how the majority looks like.

Ok, Pedro Carvalho looks ubber Med, but still more distinctive Portuguese than that boy. I never said he is the majority in Portugal. I don't think there is an unique Portuguese type, but some vibes I can definitely perceive as very Portuguese.
This woman, common as fuck in Brazil, has a very Portuguese vibe to me:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/84/f7/e984f7d52f9a3e1271e47aadcd88b7e5.jpg

[Rouxinol]

Ok, Pedro Carvalho looks ubber Med, but still more distinctive Portuguese than that boy. I never said he is the majority in Portugal. I don't think there is an unique Portuguese type, but some vibes I can definitely perceive as very Portuguese.
This woman, common as fuck in Brazil, has a very Portuguese vibe to me:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/84/f7/e984f7d52f9a3e1271e47aadcd88b7e5.jpg

That woman that pops up every now and then on anthro fora as Portuguese (just because she's a fan of the Portuguese team, as if only Portuguese people were) actually has always looked Brazilian to me, the kind of mixture that occurs there. You know, when Brazil plays many Portuguese wear the Brazilian flag and vice-versa, at least that happens here in Portugal of course.

[Latinus]

That woman that pops up ever now and then on anthro fora as Portuguese (just because she's a fan of the Portuguese team, as if only Portuguese people were) actually has always looked Brazilian to me, the kind of mixture that occurs there. You know, when Brazil plays many Portuguese wear the Brazilian flag and vice-versa, at least that happens here in Portugal of course.

Of course, maybe she is not Portuguese, but can you prove it????
If not, she is Portuguese untill someone proves otherwise.
She looks Brazilian because many Brazilians have her phenotype, not because of race mixing.

[Rouxinol]

Of course, maybe she is not Portuguese, but can you prove it????
If not, she is Portuguese untill someone proves otherwise.
She looks Brazilian because many Brazilians have her phenotype, not because of race mixing.

It's her way of dressing, I don't see Portuguese women wearing those large earrings. The hairstyle is also not the most common around here. But ok, I can't prove it, however I still think she's not Portuguese.

[Catarinense1998]

You love to lick Castilian ass, I've noticed that.
Comparing a pardo to this boy has to be a trolling attempt.

http://images.impresa.pt/visao/2016-10-07-GRS-RUBEN-277.jpg/original/mw-860

"You Love tô lick castilian" - I support some Cristiano Viejo's views, only it. I'm a proud southerner. Stop saying dumb things, you cod.

[Tooting Carmen]

You love to lick Castilian ass, I've noticed that.
Comparing a pardo to this boy has to be a trolling attempt.

http://images.impresa.pt/visao/2016-10-07-GRS-RUBEN-277.jpg/original/mw-860

In that photo he looks Balkan Slav.

[Rouxinol]

In that photo he looks Balkan Slav.

My point is that this ideia that the Portuguese as a whole look uber Medish, the most Medish of them all, is an overstatement.

[Tooting Carmen]

My point is that this ideia that the Portuguese as a whole look uber Medish, the most Medish of them all, is an overstatement.

In my experience the most Med-looking Europeans (at least in the mainland) are the Greeks. (And if you are reading this Sikeliot, no I don't just means Pontians and Cypriots either).

[Faklon]

Happens that Iberians are 20% Beduins compared yo you.


Happy Beduin day Negro Viejo,

https://i.ibb.co/xL2qLkK/beduin.jpg

Source: Haak et al, 2015, peer-reviewed

Don't push it because I will start uploading pigmentation statistics.

Red-hair allele for a start,

https://blog.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Red_hair_map.jpg

Source:23andme, Celtonegros have the lowest in Urop

[Faklon]

Spanonergos de mierda are of course notably darker pigmented than Portuguese.

Here's Coon in Races of Europe,


The eye color in the total Spanish group is listed as: blue, 18 per cent;114 brown, 68 per cent; black, 14 per cent. Dark-mixed eyes must undoubt-edly fall, in many cases, into the brown class; still it is doubtful that in most parts of southern Spain, Catalonia, and Portugal much more than 23 per cent of incipient eye blondism is to be found.115 In Spain as a whole. 46 per cent of definitely dark skin, in the very brunet-white and light brown category, again marks the population of this peninsula off from most of Europe. The regional variation in this is great; the darkest skins are in the south, in the country of Moorish occupation.


https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XI15.htm

You can also look on other areas to really realize how pigmented Mexican-looking Christinas are, it's laughable that he compares himself with South Slavs when he should compare with Lebanon or Turkey.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/racesofeurope.htm

[alnortedelsur]

My point is that this ideia that the Portuguese as a whole look uber Medish, the most Medish of them all, is an overstatement.

I disagree about them being ubber Medish, based on my experience with Portuguese-Venezuelans back in Venezuela, who in many cases had brown or blondish hair tones and light eyes. And I also disagree with the idea about Spaniards as a whole looking uber Medish.

[Faklon]

Taco Bell mascot spoke, you have to respect the Taco Bell mascot.

[alnortedelsur]

Taco Bell mascot spoke, you have to respect the Taco Bell mascot.

I prefer authentic Mexican food. You can shove your Taco Bell up your ass.

[Faklon]

Midlife cholo spoke, you have to respect the midlife cholo.

[Latinus]

I prefer authentic Mexican food. You can shove your Taco Bell up your ass.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/image.php?u=7038&dateline=1517880488

[Rouxinol]

A few ethnic Portuguese who are students and staff at the University of Coimbra. They are so medish and pardo-looking that I don't know anymore whether that is Coimbra or Belém do Pará (irony mode on).


https://youtu.be/gRKchvhZZ78


https://youtu.be/lSkI19GHkWw


https://youtu.be/eQw-hw6LlaM


https://youtu.be/nILfaX5EYF0

And this crowd of Alumni and current students at the University of Porto looks like Marrakech on a busy day (irony mode on, again).


https://youtu.be/Ix5p1kcsjNs

Get lost... :lol:

I definitely should care less about the shit that some people vomit here on a daily basis.

[Duffmannn]

The bordier between Spain and Portugal = a little Strait of Gibraltar too.

I clearly notice huge racial differencies between Badajoz and Elvas, it´s like meeting extraterrestial people.

[Rouxinol]

I clearly notice huge racial differencies between Badajoz and Elvas, it´s like meeting extraterrestial people.

Definitely. A mountain as high as the Himalayas separate both towns.

[Latinus]

Dude, nobody said the Portuguese people look pardo.
Catarinense just thought one particular Portuguese look pardo.
Stop acting like an insegure faggot.

[Duffmannn]

Definitely. A mountain as high as the Himalayas separate both towns.

Of course, Portugal has the honour of being the single Western European country with development levels as eastern european ex-communist countries like Poland or Hungary (even has been surpassed by a south american country as Chile!!!) and more people living outside the country that inside.

It was not easy, but you got it ;)

http://eltoper.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Fronteras-del-mundo-19.jpg

[Rouxinol]

Of course, Portugal has the honour of being the single Western European country with development levels as eastern european ex-communist countries like Poland or Hungary (even has been surpassed by a south american country as Chile!!!) and more people living outside the country that inside.

And Spain, with its size and population, should be the UK or Germany of Southern Europe. Yet, your minimum wage is... 800 EUROS! Just 200 EUROS more than the Portuguese one. POOR, POOR boy.
Get lost flamenco dancer, you're late to the gypsy party. Olé!

https://www.esplanade.com/-/media/images/events/2017/t/tablao-sevilla-flamenco-03.jpg?mw=640

Even your culture is part Gypsy and Moorish. Oh, I hope you didn't forget the prayer at the MEZQUITA DE CÓRDOBA (which by the way is a UNESCO World Heritage Site).
I definitely don't envy you, cockroach.

Go pray, it's on your soil (Mosque of Cordoba, Spain):

https://cdn.civitatis.com/espana/cordoba/galeria/bosque-columnas-mezquita-cordoba.jpg

By the way, Portuguese roads and highways have a much higher quality than Spanish ones. I know it out of my own experience. That edited picture is just that... An edited picture.

Edit: as to being “surpassed by Chile”, what a blatant a lie. Portugal ranks at 41 and Chile at 44 on the HDI index. Spain ranks at 26, several positions behind Israel - not very impressive for one of the largest and most populous countries in the EU which, unlike Portugal, didn’t have to endure a 14 year-long war overseas and a communist coup followed by nationalization and dismantlement of the private sector of the economy. Maybe you’ve been having too much siesta and fiesta to care!

[Duffmannn]

Vaya llorón jajajjaj

[lisarb]

And Spain, with its size and population, should be the UK or Germany of Southern Europe. Yet, your minimum wage is... 800 EUROS! Just 200 EUROS more than the Portuguese one. POOR, POOR boy.
Get lost flamenco dancer, you're late to the gypsy party. Olé!

https://www.esplanade.com/-/media/images/events/2017/t/tablao-sevilla-flamenco-03.jpg?mw=640

Even your culture is part Gypsy and Moorish. Oh, I hope you didn't forget the prayer at the MEZQUITA DE CÓRDOBA (which by the way is a UNESCO World Heritage Site).
I definitely don't envy you, cockroach.

Go pray, it's on your soil (Mosque of Cordoba, Spain):

https://cdn.civitatis.com/espana/cordoba/galeria/bosque-columnas-mezquita-cordoba.jpg

By the way, Portuguese roads and highways have a much higher quality than Spanish ones. I know it out of my own experience. That edited picture is just that... An edited picture.

de onde vem essa rivalidade entre portugal e espanha?

[Rouxinol]

de onde vem essa rivalidade entre portugal e espanha?

Se calhar desde a fundação de Portugal? Mas eu só estou a responder às provocações.

[Tooting Carmen]

So what percentage of ethnic Portuguese do look like Andre Santos, Henrique Sereno, Custodio Castro etc? Because apparently such types are less common than I previously believed.

[Rouxinol]

So what percentage of ethnic Portuguese do look like Andre Santos, Henrique Sereno, Custodio Castro etc? Because apparently such types are less common than I previously believed.


Henrique Sereno looks exotic, sort of Asian-inspired.
André Santos and Custódio are Littorid, yet another uncommon type, but one that exists across Southern Europe.
Those people are a minority, I think the group video I posted is representative of what the bulk of society looks like.

[Tooting Carmen]

Henrique Sereno looks exotic, sort of Asian-inspired.
André Santos and Custódio are Littorid, yet another uncommon type, but one that exists across Southern Europe.
Those people are a minority, I think the group video I posted is representative of what the bulk of society looks like.

What about types like our forum members Cernunnos and PT Tagus?

[Rouxinol]

What about types like our forum members Cernunnos and PT Tagus?

They're probably a type which is more Portuguese-specific. They look nothing like those football players though. Still, my observation is that the bulk of the population is in the Atlanto-Mediterranid - Atlantid spectrum (with or without CM or Alpinid admixture).

[Tooting Carmen]

They're probably a type which is more Portuguese-specific. They look nothing like those football players though.

I'm not saying they do, but the point is that, if those group photos and videos are anything to go by, even Berid (?) types like them aren't as common as I thought either.

[Rouxinol]

I'm not saying they do, but the point is that, if those group photos and videos are anything to go by, even Berid (?) types like them aren't as common as I thought either.

Med (either Gracile or Atlanto)/Berid mixes are part of the spectrum and more common than Littorids. But no, those types are not as common as people make them to be on anthrofora.

[Tooting Carmen]

Med (either Gracile or Atlanto)/Berid mixes are part of the spectrum and more common than Littorids. But no, those types are not as common as people make them to be on anthrofora.

Earlier on you said that many people mistakenly think that Portuguese-Brazilian or Portuguese-African mixes are ethnic Portuguese. However, keep in mind that nowadays the percentage of immigrants in Portugal is lower than in many other Western countries. In particular, Lisbon is nowhere near as multi-ethnic as London, Paris or Amsterdam; nor does Porto remotely compare to e.g. Birmingham or Marseille.

[lisarb]

Se calhar desde a fundação de Portugal? Mas eu só estou a responder às provocações.

uma coisa que percebo na internet é essa discussão de quem é mais rico ou mais pobre em relação ao norte da europa principalmente a frança! de onde vem isso?

[Rouxinol]

Earlier on you said that many people mistakenly think that Portuguese-Brazilian or Portuguese-African mixes are ethnic Portuguese. However, keep in mind that nowadays the percentage of immigrants in Portugal is lower than in many other Western countries. In particular, Lisbon is nowhere near as multi-ethnic as London, Paris or Amsterdam; nor does Porto remotely compare to e.g. Birmingham or Marseille.

Before 1975 the so-called "assimilated" blacks of Africa were Portuguese citizens. Many of those, and their prole, came to Portugal after independence (only very stubborn or crazy people would want to stay in Africa ruled by black Africans themselves) and kept their nationality: Portuguese. In Portugal it's not legal to count and group people based on race/ethnicity in the census. The only people who are counted are the ones who are here as immigrants, so you don't get the real picture about how many blacks live here. But I can assure you that Lisbon and its environs have many of them to the point that in the early morning you can be the only European person on the bus to work in certain neighborhoods.

[Rouxinol]

uma coisa que percebo na internet é essa discussão de quem é mais rico ou mais pobre em relação ao norte da europa principalmente a frança! de onde vem isso?

Deve vir de complexos de inferioridade, digo eu.

[Tooting Carmen]

Before 1975 the so-called "assimilated" blacks of Africa were Portuguese citizens. Many of those, and their prole, came to Portugal after independence (only very stubborn or crazy people would want to stay in Africa ruled by black Africans themselves) and kept their nationality: Portuguese. In Portugal it's not legal to count and group people based on race/ethnicity in the census - as it is the UK. The only people who are counted are the ones who are here as immigrants, so you don't get the real picture about how many blacks live here. But I can assure you that Lisbon and its environs have many of them to the point that in the early morning you can be the only European person in the bus to work in certain neighborhoods.

Well I have visited Lisbon, and while there were a fair few Blacks and some Goans and Macanese too, I still don't think it really compares to London, Paris and Amsterdam, where the non-white population is around 40-50%.

[Arsen_]

Of course, Portugal has the honour of being the single Western European country with development levels as eastern european ex-communist countries like Poland or Hungary (even has been surpassed by a south american country as Chile!!!) and more people living outside the country that inside.



No offense but it's a biggest mystery for me how a country which did not see war for last eight centuries yet it is not among most developed ones.

[Rouxinol]

No offense but it's a biggest mystery for me how a country which did not see war for last eight centuries yet it is not among most developed ones.

The thing is, it is. Haven't you checked the HDI index lately? It's listed as VERY HIGH, unlike Armenia. Maybe you're just dumb. Why don't you ask why Spain has an 800 EUR minimum wage? Or isn't as nearly as developed (in terms of industry) as is Germany, France and the UK, which are similarly sized? Yes, you should go back to school. By the way, during the last century, the Portuguese spent it developing Africa (Angola and Mozambique). We all know how well that ended in 1975. And there was a fucking war between 1961-1975 in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea! Fucking ignorant. Learn before you spew shit out of your mouth. Most people here don't know a shit about Portugal but dare to speak as if they were PhDs in Portuguese History. Ridiculous. :lol:

[lisarb]

Deve vir de complexos de inferioridade, digo eu.

existe algum complexo dos ibéricos em relação a frança? porque?

[Rouxinol]

existe algum complexo dos ibéricos em relação a frança? porque?

Porque os espanhóis não compreendem porque são tão pobres em relação a França quando, no fundo, são países semelhantes em termos de tamanho.

[lisarb]

Porque os espanhóis não compreendem porque são tão pobres em relação a França quando, no fundo, são países semelhantes em termos de tamanho.

e os portugueses também não? o fato da frança ser mais desenvolvida e rica que os ibéricos causou um complexo de inferioridade na península?

[Rouxinol]

e os portugueses também não? o fato da frança ser mais desenvolvida e rica que os ibéricos causou um complexo de inferioridade na península?

Provavelmente. Mas creio que isso é mais notório nos espanhóis. Daí, alguns, gostarem de se gabar que o salário mínimo deles é 200 EUR superior ao português. BIG DEAL!

[Tooting Carmen]

e os portugueses também não? o fato da frança ser mais desenvolvida e rica que os ibéricos causou um complexo de inferioridade na península?

E a ironia e que a Franca sempre tem sido muito mais socialista do que a Espanha ou Portugal (seja com ditaduras ou seja com democracias). Isso vai em contra das teorias comuns entre os ideologos direitistas do que "o mais capitalista, o mais rico".

[Arsen_]

The thing is, it is. Haven't you checked the HDI index lately? It's listed as VERY HIGH, unlike Armenia. Maybe you're just dumb. Why don't you ask why Spain has a 800 EUR minimum wage? Or isn't nearly as developed (in terms of industry) as is Germany, France and the UK, which are similarly sized? Yes, you should go back to school. By the way, during the last century, the Portuguese spent it developing Africa (Angola and Mozambique). We all know how well that ended in 1975. And there was a fucking war between 1961-1975 in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea! Fucking ignorant. Learn before you spew shit out of your mouth. Most people here don't know a shit about Portugal but dare to speak as if they were PhDs in Portuguese History. Ridiculous. :lol:

You seem to be insanely dumb bitch insulting people for no reason, I repeat my question why your people have been in lethargy for eight centuries and is not among most developed ones???

[Damião de Góis]

No wars for Portugal since the 1200s? This might be useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Portugal

[Tooting Carmen]

No wars for Portugal since the 1200s? This might be useful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Portugal

Perhaps he meant civil wars (plus of course the fact that Portugal was neutral during both World Wars, to the point where both the Allies and Axis powers used it as a place to smuggle goods).

[Rouxinol]

Well I have visited Lisbon, and while there were a fair few Blacks and some Goans and Macanese too, I still don't think it really compares to London, Paris and Amsterdam, where the non-white population is around 40-50%.


In Lisbon proper it's not as bad as in the suburbs. Most of them only go to Lisbon due to work. But in cities such as Amadora, Reboleira, Cacém, Seixal, Almada, Barreiro, Loures, they're certainly about 30% to 50% of the population.

[Rouxinol]

You seem to be insanely dumb bitch insulting people for no reason, I repeat my question why your people have been in lethargy for eight centuries and is not among most developed ones???

Go back to school. Or use Wikipedia. See Damião de Góis post. It has a link, you seem to be LAZY.

[Rouxinol]

Perhaps he meant civil wars (plus of course the fact that Portugal was neutral during both World Wars, to the point where both the Allies and Axis powers used it as a place to smuggle goods).

Not neutral during WWI. And there were war fronts in Africa during WWI too, which the Portuguese fought. But the most devastating war - economically - was the Colonial War from 1961 to 1975.

[Tooting Carmen]

In Lisbon proper it's not as bad as in the suburbs. Most of them only go to Lisbon due to work. But in cities such as Amadora, Reboleira, Cacém, Seixal, Almada, Barreiro, Loures, they're certainly about 30% to 50% of the population.

Which is the opposite of London, where it gets considerably whiter in London Underground zones 5 and 6 compared to the more inner ones. (Although there are exceptions such as Hounslow, Harrow and Redbridge, which have lots and lots of Indians).

[lisarb]

Provavelmente. Mas creio que isso é mais notório nos espanhóis. Daí, alguns, gostarem de se gabar que o salário mínimo deles é 200 EUR superior ao português. BIG DEAL!

eu falo isso porque percebi esse complexo de inferioridade de muitos ibéricos em relação a frança na internet!

[Tooting Carmen]

Not neutral during WWI. And there were war fronts in Africa during WWI too, which the Portuguese fought. But the most devastating war - economically - was the Colonial War from 1961 to 1975.

Definitely one of the less prominent participants in WWI even so.

[lisarb]

E a ironia e que a Franca sempre tem sido muito mais socialista do que a Espanha ou Portugal (seja com ditaduras ou seja com democracias). Isso vai em contra das teorias comuns entre os ideologos direitistas do que "o mais capitalista, o mais rico".

a frança sofreu uma industrialização muito cedo do que a península sem falar no seu império colonial no seculo 19 e 20 que era muito maior do que a dos ibéricos!

[Damião de Góis]

Perhaps he meant civil wars (plus of course the fact that Portugal was neutral during both World Wars, to the point where both the Allies and Axis powers used it as a place to smuggle goods).

Chapter 9 is about civil wars. And it's a good thing we remained neutral during the two world wars. Even so, 12 thousand portuguese died during WWI:


Approximately 12,000 Portuguese troops died during the course of World War I, including Africans who served in its armed forces in the colonial front.[1][2] Civilian deaths in Portugal exceeded 220,000: 82,000 caused by food shortages and 138,000 by the Spanish flu.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_during_World_War_I

[Roi_Xordo]

The thing is, it is. Haven't you checked the HDI index lately? It's listed as VERY HIGH, unlike Armenia. Maybe you're just dumb. Why don't you ask why Spain has an 800 EUR minimum wage? Or isn't as nearly as developed (in terms of industry) as is Germany, France and the UK, which are similarly sized? Yes, you should go back to school. By the way, during the last century, the Portuguese spent it developing Africa (Angola and Mozambique). We all know how well that ended in 1975. And there was a fucking war between 1961-1975 in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea! Fucking ignorant. Learn before you spew shit out of your mouth. Most people here don't know a shit about Portugal but dare to speak as if they were PhDs in Portuguese History. Ridiculous. :lol:

Plenty of people wonder how Spain isn't as developed as France even tough the two countries have the same size... Well, France fields are EXTREMELLY fertile, they have plenty of natural resources and France is located in the center of europe, wich is perfect for commerce and influx of information (before the internet, this played a really big role).
Most of Spain is a desert with few resources and the humid/temperate parts of it are too hilly/mountainous for industrial agriculture. Spain is fairly isolated from the rest of Europe as well (except the easternmost parts of it).
In conclusion, France is rich in resources while Spain isn't.
Also, christian obscurantism and incompetent leaders doesn't help as well.

[Rouxinol]

Definitely one of the less prominent participants in WWI even so.

I agree. But the war in Africa and the nationalizations that followed the fall of Estado Novo after the communist coup left the country economically ruined.

[Tooting Carmen]

In Lisbon proper it's not as bad as in the suburbs. Most of them only go to Lisbon due to work. But in cities such as Amadora, Reboleira, Cacém, Seixal, Almada, Barreiro, Loures, they're certainly about 30% to 50% of the population.

And what about Porto? When I was there it was easily 90%+ White, although there did seem to be more Black people in the poor Ribeirao neighbourhood than elsewhere.

[Robocop]

I would say Portugese (BUT TRUE TRUE TRUE PORTUGESE PEOPLE, not some colonial scum or immigrants or some mixed scums there, but TRUE PORTUGESE people) are lighter in general than Spaniards, and I've seen both many times across Europe when I was traveling with college.

I love Spain, but in my opinion Portugese people are lighter overall. I cannot even explain it, but I saw so many of them so pale you wouldn't believe, pale as vampires lol, if someone would ask me to show them TRUE ANCIENT IBERIANS, it wouldn't be Basques of today, but TRUE Portugese people.

Cheers

[Rouxinol]

And what about Porto? When I was there it was easily 90%+ White, although there did seem to be more Black people in the poor Ribeirao neighbourhood than elsewhere.

It's been a while since the last time I was in Porto. From what I hear and see on the news, blacks and mainly Brazilians (of the poor, non-European kind) have been increasing there. It also has gypsy-only neighborhoods, known nationwide for being problematic. I don't know when have you been in Ribeira, but now, from what I gather, it is mostly a neighborhood geared towards tourism.

[Autrigón]

Porque os espanhóis não compreendem porque são tão pobres em relação a França quando, no fundo, são países semelhantes em termos de tamanho.Creo que el que tiene que volver a la escuela eres tú, Francia y España similares de tamaño? España tiene 46 millones de habitantes, Francia tiene 67. En términos de población en Europa puedes comparar España como mucho con Polonia (38) o con Ucrania (42).

Estás obsesionado con los españoles, de los portugueses que hay en este foro eres el único que me pareces bastante bobo, el resto de portugueses son gente agradable.

[Tooting Carmen]

It's been some time since the last time I was in Porto. For what I ear and see on the news, blacks and mainly Brazilians (of the poor, non-European kind) have been increasing there. It also has gypsy-only neighborhoods, known nationwide for being problematic. I don't know when have you been in Ribeira, but now, from what I gather, it is mostly a neighborhood geared towards tourism.

I was there in 2010. The area where the seafront itself is was a bit dodgy, but the surrounding areas including the Cathedral and the Customs Museum are indeed more touristy.

[alnortedelsur]

I would say Portugese (BUT TRUE TRUE TRUE PORTUGESE PEOPLE, not some colonial scum or immigrants or some mixed scums there, but TRUE PORTUGESE people) are lighter in general than Spaniards, and I've seen both many times across Europe when I was traveling with college.

I love Spain, but in my opinion Portugese people are lighter overall. I cannot even explain it, but I saw so many of them so pale you wouldn't believe, pale as vampires lol, if someone would ask me to show them TRUE ANCIENT IBERIANS, it wouldn't be Basques of today, but TRUE Portugese people.

Cheers

I respect your opinion, but I disagree! They're more or less on par.

[Rouxinol]

I was there in 2010. The area where the seafront itself is was a bit dodgy, but the surrounding areas including the Cathedral and the Customs Museum are indeed more touristy.

I see. A lot has changed during the debt crisis and after it. It might be very different now and definitely a lot more touristy from what I see and hear. Many airlines started operating to Porto in the last few years and the tourism industry has grown a lot there and all the Douro Valley region.

[Rouxinol]

Creo que el que tiene que volver a la escuela eres tú, Francia y España similares de tamaño? España tiene 46 millones de habitantes, Francia tiene 67. En términos de población en Europa puedes comparar España como mucho con Polonia (38) o con Ucrania (42).

Estás obsesionado con los españoles, de los portugueses que hay en este foro eres el único que me pareces bastante bobo, el resto de portugueses son gente agradable.

Diz isso ao Cristão Novo, ele também está obcecado com os portugueses e foi ele que começou. Era suposto eu ficar calado e deixá-lo espalhar mentiras? Não.

[Tooting Carmen]

I see. A lot has changed during the debt crisis and after it. It might be very different now and definitely a lot more touristy from what I see and hear. Many airlines started operating to Porto in the last few years and the tourism industry has grown a lot there and all the Douro Valley region.

Well TAP Portugal seems to have shrunk its base at Porto Airport. Closer to topic: which nationalities/ethnic groups do you think 50%+ of the time easily pass as Portuguese?

[KingOf]

Norway vs Sweden, who is the lighter nation...

[Rouxinol]

Well TAP Portugal seems to have shrunk its base at Porto Airport. Closer to topic: which nationalities/ethnic groups do you think 50%+ of the time easily pass as Portuguese?

Yes, the European one, due to the massive influx of low-cost airlines from everywhere else in Europe. It is currently expanding the intercontinental network from Porto though.
Well, as to you question, it's needless to say, you know what those nationalities are, everyone who isn't mentally ill knows, and honestly I don't want to feed this thread and the trolls from Armenia and other dodgy places that it is beginning to attract.

[Tooting Carmen]

Norway vs Sweden, who is the lighter nation...

Yes, in all seriousness we have too few threads about Scandinavians.

[Tooting Carmen]

Yes, the European one, due to the influx of low-cost airlines from everywhere else in Europe. It is currently expanding the intercontinental network from Porto though.
Well, as to you question, it's needless to say, you know what those nationalities are, everyone who isn't mentally ill knows, I honestly I don't want to feed this thread and the trolls from Armenia and other dodgy places that it is beginning to attract.

Well common sense would say so, but since you yourself insist that so many Spaniards look very foreign for Portugal, I'd like you to spell them out.

[Autrigón]

Diz isso ao Cristão Novo, ele também está obcecado com os portugueses e foi ele que começou. Era suposto eu ficar calado e deixá-lo espalhar mentiras? Não.Sois los dos igual de tontos por seguirle el juego al gilipollas belga que ha abierto este hilo.

[KingOf]

Yes, in all seriousness we have too few threads about Scandinavians.

let's see North Europe fight for once lol

[Latinus]

Yes, in all seriousness we have too few threads about Scandinavians.

Because the Germanics have less OWD members.

[Rouxinol]

Well common sense would say so, but since you yourself insist that so many Spaniards look very foreign for Portugal, I'd like you to spell them out.

Well, there are these phenotypes that I think are very specific to Spain, the likes of people like Pedro Almodovar or Rafael Nadal. I presume that the Portuguese Littorids and so forth aren't common in Spain either. That's mostly it. No one in their right mind can deny the overlapping though - both phenotypically and genetically.

[JMack]

Because the Germanics have less OWD members.

Yeah, because Celto-Germanic peoples are the true whites and don't need to prove/fight for whiteness on the internet.

Nations with a big quantity of darkies are always fighting about who's less dark.

[Gallop]

I have not yet traveled to Portugal but I want to do it some day and enjoy that wonderful gastronomy and pastry included among many other things.

[Cernunnos]

I have not yet traveled to Portugal but I want to do it some day and enjoy that wonderful gastronomy and pastry included among many other things.

I've been to Granada, Cordoba and Sevilla, nice cities. I spent more time in Granada tho. It's a stunning city filled with beauty. It has the beautiful Allambra which is one of the wonders of the world IMO, and also the nice contrast of being an extremely warm city but with the Sierra Nevada just nearby, always snowy....

Spanish food however at least in Castille, Andalucia, Galicia, Leon, Asturias seems to be pretty much the same thing, except for soups in Andalucia, sea food in Galicia which are regional variances.

But each time I visited Spain I always found the same type of plates (Paella, Bread/Pan, Pollo and Cerdo based meals with the exception of sea food in Galicia).

[Carlito's Way]

Can you develop more? When it comes to Iberia you seem to be very impartial, and since you visited both countries...

Portugal seemed to me more darker than Spain and I spend most of my time in Andalusia, but I also got the chance to travel to Cuenca, to me that area was def more lighter than Portugal
atlantid types in Cuenca are very common, while in Portugal less common
also Portuguese seemed a bit shorter than Spaniards and this basing it off my height

Portugal also seems to have a lot of females who are alpine or alpine med
in Spain, a lot of the females have long faces, im not a fan of long faces in females at all, which is why I have said that I found Portuguese women to be more beautiful
a female with a long face makes her look a bit manly and rough

but the differences werent so huge though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3PU4RF80Wc

[Visage pâle]

In my experience the most Med-looking Europeans (at least in the mainland) are the Greeks. (And if you are reading this Sikeliot, no I don't just means Pontians and Cypriots either).

I would say Calabreses are more Med-looking than Greeks.

[Tooting Carmen]

I would say Calabreses are more Med-looking than Greeks.

Possibly, but the point is Calabria is one small region of a country, whereas Greece is an entire country.

[Catarinense1998]

Dude, nobody said the Portuguese people look pardo.
Catarinense just thought one particular Portuguese look pardo.
Stop acting like an insegure faggot.

This stupid portuguese cod lacks of skills to understand simple things. The guy who was posted by him is not the best example out there about "pan euro" portuguese.

[Supercomputer]

From my experience in North Portugal, blue eyes not even reach 10%.

29%... WTF...

Where have I said that blue??

[Duffmannn]

The thing is, it is. Haven't you checked the HDI index lately? It's listed as VERY HIGH, unlike Armenia. Maybe you're just dumb. Why don't you ask why Spain has an 800 EUR minimum wage? Or isn't as nearly as developed (in terms of industry) as is Germany, France and the UK, which are similarly sized? Yes, you should go back to school. By the way, during the last century, the Portuguese spent it developing Africa (Angola and Mozambique). We all know how well that ended in 1975. And there was a fucking war between 1961-1975 in Angola, Mozambique and Guinea! Fucking ignorant. Learn before you spew shit out of your mouth. Most people here don't know a shit about Portugal but dare to speak as if they were PhDs in Portuguese History. Ridiculous. :lol:

Spain minimun wage has been rised recently to 1000 euros.

In fact nowadays the minimum sallary almost doubles portuguese one. The medium sallary exceeds the double.

[Duffmannn]

e os portugueses também não? o fato da frança ser mais desenvolvida e rica que os ibéricos causou um complexo de inferioridade na península?

Ese complejo es más propio de los portugeses, medio Portugal está literalmente en Francia.

De hecho el fenómeno de los que retornan a vacaciones a Portugal y solo hablan francés es común.

Portugal siempre ha sido un país miserable y una colonia británica de facto, ya en el XVIII hubo emigraciones masivas a Brasil. De hecho las ciudades con más luso-descendientes (luso-descendientes puros o casi me refiero) del mundo son Sao Paulo y Rio de Janeiro con gran diferencia; pero es que aparte de Lisboa y Oporto, las siguientes ciudades con más portugueses del mundo son Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, París, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahía, Recife, Fortaleza y Johannesburgo (no necesariamente en ese orden).

Es decir, la tercera ciudad más habitada de Portugal, Coimbra, es la 18º ciudad con más portugueses en todo el mundo, eso te da una idea de cuan grande es el éxodo de portugueses de su país.


---------------------------------------------------------------

That complex is more common between portuguese, half Portugal is literally in France.

In fact the phenomenon of the peple that returns on holidadys to Portugal and only speaks french is common.

Portugal has always been a miserable country and a factual british colony, yet in the XVIII century there were massive migrations to Brazil. In fact the cities with more luso-descendants (pure or almost pure luso-descendants I refer) are Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro by a big difference; but apart of Lisbon and Oporto, the next following cities with more portuguese people in the world are Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Paris, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahia, Recife, Fortaleza and Johannesburg (not just in this order)

In fact, the third most inhabited city of Portugal, Coimbra, is the 18º city with more portuguese people all around the world, this gives you an idea of how big is the portuguese exodus from their country.

[Catarinense1998]

A few ethnic Portuguese who are students and staff at the University of Coimbra. They are so medish and pardo-looking that I don't know anymore whether that is Coimbra or Belém do Pará (irony mode on).

Get lost... :lol:

I definitely should care less about the shit that some people vomit here on a daily basis.

You inapt cod, you could have posted a better example there about "pan euro looking people". I find very pathetic your reaction.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ese complejo es más propio de los portugeses, medio Portugal está literalmente en Francia.

De hecho el fenómeno de los que retornan a vacaciones a Portugal y solo hablan francés es común.

Portugal siempre ha sido un país miserable y una colonia británica de facto, ya en el XVIII hubo emigraciones masivas a Brasil. De hecho las ciudades con más luso-descendientes (luso-descendientes puros o casi me refiero) del mundo son Sao Paulo y Rio de Janeiro con gran diferencia; pero es que aparte de Lisboa y Oporto, las siguientes ciudades con más portugueses del mundo son Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, París, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahía, Recife, Fortaleza y Johannesburgo (no necesariamente en ese orden).

Es decir, la tercera ciudad más habitada de Portugal, Coimbra, es la 18º ciudad con más portugueses en todo el mundo, eso te da una idea de cuan grande es el éxodo de portugueses de su país.


---------------------------------------------------------------

That complex is more common between portuguese, half Portugal is literally in France.

In fact the phenomenon of the peple that returns on holidadys to Portugal and only speaks french is common.

Portugal has always been a miserable country and a factual british colony, yet in the XVIII century there were massive migrations to Brazil. In fact the cities with more luso-descendants (pure or almost pure luso-descendants I refer) are Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro by a big difference; but apart of Lisbon and Oporto, the next following cities with more portuguese people in the world are Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Paris, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahia, Recife, Fortaleza and Johannesburg (not just in this order)

In fact, the third most inhabited city of Portugal, Coimbra, is the 18º city with more portuguese people all around the world, this gives you an idea of how big is the portuguese exodus from their country.

Well OK, but then how many Spanish descendants are there in Mexico City, Havana, Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Santiago de Chile, Montevideo, Caracas, Geneva and Paris? How many British and Irish descendants are there in Toronto, Vancouver, Boston, New York, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, Johannesburg and more recently Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai and Doha?

(Btw, for the Portuguese you missed out Geneva and Luxembourg, which also have lots).

[Duffmannn]

Well OK, but then how many Spanish descendants are there in Mexico City, Havana, Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Santiago de Chile, Montevideo, Caracas, Geneva and Paris? How many British and Irish descendants are there in Toronto, Vancouver, Boston, New York, Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, Johannesburg and more recently Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai and Doha?

(Btw, for the Portuguese you missed out Geneva and Luxembourg, which also have lots).

But Spaniards are the elite in those places (and any latin american city is near in spanish population to Madrid or Barcelona)

[Tooting Carmen]

But Spaniards are the elite in those places (and any latin american city is near in spanish population to Madrid or Barcelona)

They aren't especially elite-represented in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil or needless to say France and Switzerland. As you did with the Portuguese, I am referring to pure/quasi-pure Spanish descendants here, not mixed-race people of various types.

[Rouxinol]

You inapt cod, you could have posted a better example there about "pan euro looking people". I find very pathetic your reaction.

I don't give a fuck about that pan-Euro shit you're talking about.

[Catarinense1998]

I don't give a fuck about that pan-Euro shit you're talking about.

Ok so. Go to sleep and take some soothing you lusitanian dumbass.

[Rouxinol]

Spain minimun wage has been rised recently to 1000 euros.

In fact nowadays the minimum sallary almost doubles portuguese one. The medium sallary exceeds the double.

Let's see how well that socialist measure will do. Raising minimum wages by decree without a strong economy is stupid. Given Spain's unemployment rate (one of the highest in Europe and way higher than the Portuguese one) I doubt that socialist measure will be of any help. Looks like the UK will have to feed a few more hundreds of thousands of Spanish immigrants. Actually, they're on par with Portuguese ones in England. So much for Spanish grandeur...

[Duffmannn]

They aren't especially elite-represented in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil or needless to say France and Switzerland. As you did with the Portuguese, I am referring to pure/quasi-pure Spanish descendants here, not mixed-race people of various types.

In France there are many top politicians of full spanish descent. The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, the ex-first minister Manuel Valls, or the leader of the Left Party, Jean-Luc Melenchón, are 100% spaniards, for example.

Even the nationalist leader Marine Le Pen speaks a very good spanish (has come to spanish television sometimes). The spanish lenguage is spreading fastly in the country, most of young students learn spanish and are exposed to spanish culture.

One of the biggest companies in France, Danone, is of spanish origin. Portugal is not even near these sucesses in France, even being so much more people in number.

-----------------------------------

Uruguay or Argentina has not a spanish elite... fuck lol, the biggest businesses in Argentina were owned (before the arrival of the kirchnerism and their expropiations) by spanish companies: YPF, Aerolineas Argentina.

Have you seen the names of most of uruguayan presidents?

[Duffmannn]

Let's see how well that socialist measure will do. Raising minimum wages by decree without a strong economy is stupid. Given Spain's unemployment rate (one of the highest in Europe and way higher than the Portuguese one) I doubt that socialist measure will be of any help. Looks like the UK will have to feed a few more hundreds of thousands of Spanish immigrants. Actually, they're on par with Portuguese ones in England. So much for Spanish grandeur...

You know that most of those "spaniards" are in fact latin american immigrants with spanish nationality right?

If Spain had 30% of their nationals (and not counting their descendants, that could reach to 50%) would have too a loo unemployment.

[Rouxinol]

In France there are many top politicians of full spanish descent. The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, the ex-first minister Manuel Valls, or the leader of the Left Party, Jean-Luc Melenchón, are 100% spaniards, for example.

Even the nationalist leader Marine Le Pen speaks a very good spanish (has come to spanish television sometimes). The spanish lenguage is spreading fastly in the country, most of young students learn spanish and are exposed to spanish culture.

One of the biggest companies in France, Danone, is of spanish origin. Portugal is not even near these sucesses in France, even being so much more people in number.

-----------------------------------

Uruguay or Argentina has not a spanish elite... fuck lol, the biggest businesses in Argentina were owned (before the arrival of the kirchnerism and their expropiations) by spanish companies: YPF, Aerolineas Argentina.

Have you seen the names of most of uruguayan presidents?

CARLOS TAVARES, Portuguese, CEO of PSA Group (Peugeot Citroen)

https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ng3103123.jpg

That's enough for me.

As to Marine Le Pen, it's not that I need her approval, but she's always shown sympathy towards the Portuguese. Bruno Gollnisch speaks perfect Portuguese. It's funny that you need her approval to feel good about yourself though. That shows how far that inferiority complex goes. Make an appointment at the doctor's office, they might have a medicine for you.

[Tooting Carmen]

In France there are many top politicians of full spanish descent. The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, the ex-first minister Manuel Valls, or the leader of the Left Party, Jean-Luc Melenchón, are 100% spaniards, for example.

Even the nationalist leader Marine Le Pen speaks a very good spanish (has come to spanish television sometimes). The spanish lenguage is spreading fastly in the country, most of young students learn spanish and are exposed to spanish culture.

One of the biggest companies in France, Danone, is of spanish origin. Portugal is not even near these sucesses in France, even being so much more people in number.

-----------------------------------

Uruguay or Argentina has not a spanish elite... fuck lol, the biggest businesses in Argentina were owned (before the arrival of the kirchnerism and their expropiations) by spanish companies: YPF, Aerolineas Argentina.

Have you seen the names of most of uruguayan presidents?

I think you seriously misunderstood my point. What I meant was that in France, Switzerland, Uruguay, Brazil and Argentina, Spaniards and Spanish-descendants are spread out throughout the social spectrum. Now, of course in countries like Peru and Bolivia it is a different matter, but I wasn't so much referring to them.

[Hyoga7]

You seem to be insanely dumb bitch insulting people for no reason, I repeat my question why your people have been in lethargy for eight centuries and is not among most developed ones???

"lethargy for eight centuries".....my friend, just take 5 minutes of your time and do the following: make a quick 30 second research in Google about the size and population of Portugal.
Then check the size, population and number of countries where Portuguese is an official language.
Then check how many hundreds of millions of people speak Portuguese as a mother tongue.

I think that in less than 5 minutes you'll be elucidated about the lethargy of the Portuguese....

- Do you know that Portugal and Spain have the oldest boundaries in Europe? Do you think that maintaining those borders was easy when you have a neighbour who is 4-5 times bigger than you?
Portugal proclaimed its sovereignity in 1139, at a time when the Kingdom of Spain didn't even exist. We have only lost that sovereignity during 1580-1640, in a succession crisis because there were no direct heirs to the throne. Filipe II was the grandson of King Manuel I and the strongest candidate. The other strongest candidate was another grandson of King Manuel I named António, Prior do Crato, but he was an illegitimate/bastard child so...Filipe II was named King of Portugal and established the Iberian Union.
The other occurence is a couple of years (1807-10) derived from the Napoleonic Invasions, but these were 3 invasions and not occupation of the territory.


As for not "is not among most developed ones" that will depend on your definition of "developed ones"...
I'll concede that Portugal lags behind the more developed states in Europe, but by all modern official standards, we're still in that group.
We're 41st in the last HDI of UNDP, although the debt crisis of the last decade has had severe consequences. We were 34th in the 2009 HDI.


Lethargy...check the dictionary....

[Hyoga7]

Spain minimun wage has been rised recently to 1000 euros.

In fact nowadays the minimum sallary almost doubles portuguese one. The medium sallary exceeds the double.

Not double! It's still low for European standards, but not double.

Portugal: 600 euros
Spain: 900 euros


Spain has the 2nd highest unemployment rate in the EU after Greece: 14,5%.
Portugal is 6,7%.

[Autrigón]

Yeah, because Celto-Germanic peoples are the true whites and don't need to prove/fight for whiteness on the internet.

Nations with a big quantity of darkies are always fighting about who's less dark.No Portuguese and no Spanish have opened this thread and no southern European usually opens this type of threads. Don't forget that.

[Rouxinol]

One thing I notice is that some Spanish have this need to attack the Portuguese to feel good about themselves because, you see, after Portugal, they're the poorest country in Western Europe. Which is intriguing from a historical perspective. Portugal had a devastating war in its African territories from 1961 to 1975 and in 1974 underwent a communist coup followed by nationalization and dismantlement of its economy's private sector. Spain had a dicatorship until about the same time as Portugal but didn't undergo any of that. They should be much more developed than they are. Actually, they should be in the top 10 countries in terms of Human Development, yet they lag behind all of Western Europe and even behind ISRAEL! Actually, Slovenia has a higher HDI and they're almost tied with the Czech Republic! I'm really sad for Spain. Such a grand nation, with a population over 40 million, and a history of world domination in the 15th-16th centuries (well, Portugal did the same with fewer resources to be fair), has had for the last decade one of the highest unemployment rates in the whole of the EU (at its peak, it was over 20%!). It's saddening that Spanish people have to ask for economic asylum in the UK so that they can find an actual job. As I said, so much for Spanish grandeur...

[Latinus]

No Portuguese and no Spanish have opened this thread and no southern European usually opens this type of threads. Don't forget that.

That doesn't change the fact that OWD is very common among your people. Rossignol, for example, is one of the Iberians that is always promoting this crap.

[Duffmannn]

That doesn't change the fact that OWD is very common among your people. Rossignol, for example, is one of the Iberians that is always promoting this crap.

In fact we spanish and portuguese are very friendly people between us. There´s no confrontation between us at all. I consider Portugal a brother country.

But if a troll like Rossignol begins to blame us in that way, I just remember him who´s up and who´s down.

[Autrigón]

That doesn't change the fact that OWD is very common among your people. Rossignol, for example, is one of the Iberians that is always promoting this crap.Absolutely agree with your last words. All Portuguese members here are nice people, except Rossignol who is a traitor to his own fucking peninsula.

[Hyoga7]

Ese complejo es más propio de los portugeses, medio Portugal está literalmente en Francia.

De hecho el fenómeno de los que retornan a vacaciones a Portugal y solo hablan francés es común.

Portugal siempre ha sido un país miserable y una colonia británica de facto, ya en el XVIII hubo emigraciones masivas a Brasil. De hecho las ciudades con más luso-descendientes (luso-descendientes puros o casi me refiero) del mundo son Sao Paulo y Rio de Janeiro con gran diferencia; pero es que aparte de Lisboa y Oporto, las siguientes ciudades con más portugueses del mundo son Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, París, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahía, Recife, Fortaleza y Johannesburgo (no necesariamente en ese orden).

Es decir, la tercera ciudad más habitada de Portugal, Coimbra, es la 18º ciudad con más portugueses en todo el mundo, eso te da una idea de cuan grande es el éxodo de portugueses de su país.


---------------------------------------------------------------

That complex is more common between portuguese, half Portugal is literally in France.

In fact the phenomenon of the peple that returns on holidadys to Portugal and only speaks french is common.

Portugal has always been a miserable country and a factual british colony, yet in the XVIII century there were massive migrations to Brazil. In fact the cities with more luso-descendants (pure or almost pure luso-descendants I refer) are Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro by a big difference; but apart of Lisbon and Oporto, the next following cities with more portuguese people in the world are Boston, Caracas, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Paris, Toronto, Luanda, Salvador de Bahia, Recife, Fortaleza and Johannesburg (not just in this order)

In fact, the third most inhabited city of Portugal, Coimbra, is the 18º city with more portuguese people all around the world, this gives you an idea of how big is the portuguese exodus from their country.



A Spanish guy talking about massive migration to a Portuguese...
Well as if Spain never had episodes of massive migration...

Do you think that Portugal and Spain were really that different during Salazar and Franco's dictatorship?
I do concede that Spain benefited more from EU membership, but taking into account it's size and population that would be expectable.
Spain's unemployment rate is still very worrying.
And you guys had massive migrations/legalization in the early 2000s and Sanchez opened the doors to massive migration after Salvini closed Italy's doors.


* "the third most inhabited city of Portugal, Coimbra".
O quê????????

No way! (https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_munic%C3%ADpios_de_Portugal_por_popula%C3 %A7%C3%A3o).

But what we should be extremely worried about is with horrendous crimes such as the one of Azuqueca de Henares (La niña de 12 años es española mientras que los agresores investigados son cinco marroquíes y un nigeriano) and why the mass media, the left, and the feminists covered this up since March 2018.

[Hyoga7]

In fact we spanish and portuguese are very friendly people between us. There´s no confrontation between us at all. I consider Portugal a brother country.




That is true!
This bla bla bla is like a football rivalry!
I've always found very normal to see Portuguese and Spanish people drinking together abroad.
It is much more common than French, German, Dutch, English, etc. maybe scars and resentement from the II World Wars.

[Autrigón]

One thing I notice is that some Spanish have this need to attack the Portuguese to feel good about themselves because, you see, after Portugal, they're the poorest country in Western Europe. Which is intriguing from a historical perspective. Portugal had a devastating war in its African territories from 1961 to 1975 and and in 1974 underwent a communist coup followed by nationalization and dismantlement of its economy's private sector. Spain had a dicatorship until about the same time as Portugal but didn't underwent any of that. They should be much more developed than they are. Actually, they should be in the top 10 countries in terms of Human Development, yet they lag behind all of Western Europe and even behind ISRAEL! Actually, Slovenia has a higher HDI and they're almost tied with the Czech Republic! I'm really sad for Spain. Such a grand nation, with a population over 40 million, and a history of world domination in the 15th-16th centuries (well, Portugal did the same with much less resources to be fair), has had for the last decade one of highest unemployment rates in the whole of the EU (at its peak, it was over 20%!). It's saddening that Spanish people have to ask for economic asylum in the UK so that they can find an actual job. As I said, so much for Spanish grandeur...Rossi my friend you are a completely ignorant. Spain with only 46 millions of inhabitants is the 13th world economical power. It was the 8th in 2007 before the economical crisis. My country is not perfect but your information is ridiculous.

About the young who go to UK, in most of the cases is just a some kind of "adventure" when you are young to go for example to London to learn english while having some kind of shitty job. Its almost a "tradition" for young spanish, go for a summer or for two or three years and come back to Spain.
Have you ever seen spanish living in ghettos in London or stealing wallets in the streets? All the spanish who travel to some english speaking countries are universitaries.

About the Spanish Empire, well if you know a country who is able to conquer territories all over the world with only 5 millions of inhabitants (that was the population of Spain in XVI-XVII centuries) so then call me.

[Supercomputer]

edit: error

[Rouxinol]

Rossi my friend you are a completely ignorant. Spain with only 46 millions of inhabitants is the 13th world economical power. It was the 8th in 2007 before the economical crisis. My country is not perfect but your information is ridiculous.

About the young who go to UK, in most of the cases is just a some kind of "adventure" when you are young to go for example to London to learn english while having some kind of shitty job. Its almost a "tradition" for young spanish, go for a summer or for two or three years and come back to Spain.
Have you ever seen spanish living in ghettos in London or stealing wallets in the streets? All the spanish who travel to some english speaking countries are universitaries.

About the Spanish Empire, well if you know a country who is able to conquer territories all over the world with only 5 millions of inhabitants (that was the population of Spain in XVI-XVII centuries) so then call me.

China is all set to become the world's largest economy and yet they rank at 86 on the HDI index. Brazil and India are top 10 economies and yet they're not classified as developed nations. Of course that's not the case with Spain, which is a highly developed nation, but in my opinion, something went wrong, they should be in the top 10, or at least in the top 20, in terms of HDI, however even Israel or former Yugoslavian Slovenia are ahead of Spain. Anyway, I'm done with this conversation.

BTW: yes, Portugal had 1 million inhabitants and conquered territories from South America to East Asia about the same time as Spain did.

[Not a Cop]

Plenty of people wonder how Spain isn't as developed as France even tough the two countries have the same size... Well, France fields are EXTREMELLY fertile, they have plenty of natural resources and France is located in the center of europe, wich is perfect for commerce and influx of information (before the internet, this played a really big role).
Most of Spain is a desert with few resources and the humid/temperate parts of it are too hilly/mountainous for industrial agriculture. Spain is fairly isolated from the rest of Europe as well (except the easternmost parts of it).
In conclusion, France is rich in resources while Spain isn't.
Also, christian obscurantism and incompetent leaders doesn't help as well.

Truth is that France has always been a great country in EU and world context, there were better times and worse times, but France was always a major player since it's formation.

While Spain had all the resourses in the world by XVI-XVII but failed to do something valueable with it.

[Cernunnos]

Spain minimun wage has been rised recently to 1000 euros.

In fact nowadays the minimum sallary almost doubles portuguese one. The medium sallary exceeds the double.

You might have a minimum sallary of 1000 euros, but what about the higher prices for basicaly everything?

An average package with 1kg of Rice costs 0,89 euros while in Spain it costs 1,20. Also the same quantity of beans may be under the 1,79 euros mark while in Spain is around 2,69....

[Supercomputer]

How did the subject change from Spain vs Portugal in pigmentation to economy and history?

[Rouxinol]

You might have a minimum sallary of 1000 euros, but what about the higher prices for basicaly everything?

An average package with 1kg of Rice costs 0,89 euros while in Spain it costs 1,20. Also the same quantity of beans may be under the 1,79 euros mark while in Spain is around 2,69....

Sanchez and his socialist government raised their minimum wage in 200 EUR only this year but that's going to be a failure because their economy is broken. It will only cause more unemployment. The future will tell.

[Papastratosels26]

Don't know

[Cernunnos]

That doesn't change the fact that OWD is very common among your people. Rossignol, for example, is one of the Iberians that is always promoting this crap.

Why don't you go post your Nordic/Atlantic "Colonial Whites" and tell all the other autists around here that Southern Europeans are more exotic on average than Brazilian whites?

Sounds like you are full of crap.

[Tooting Carmen]

How did the subject change from Spain vs Portugal in pigmentation to economy and history?

Because all three topics are causes of fights between the two groups.

[Cernunnos]

Sanchez and his socialist government raised their minimum wage in 200 EUR only this year but that's going to be a failure because their economy is broken. It will only cause more unemployment. The future will tell.

Dunno, the only thing they have for cheaper prices is Gasoline and oil derived products. Also they almost don't have any tolls on the road. I remember going all the way from Alentejo to Madrid and I don't remember a single time where we had to stop to pay a tax to enter another road.

[Latinus]

Why don't you go post your Nordic/Atlantic "Colonial Whites" and tell all the other autists around here that Southern Europeans are more exotic on average than Brazilian whites?

Sounds like you are full of crap.

Funny as fuck post, I just stated a fact: these forums tend to atract many Southern Euro OWD people, did you identify with my posts? If not, there is no reason to attack me.
These Spanish vs Portuguese wars or the former Iberian VS Italian were, as far as I know, flamed by Southern Euros 99% of the time.

[Cernunnos]

Funny as fuck post, I just stated a fact: these forums tend to atract many Southern Euro OWD people, did you identify with my posts? If not, there is no reason to attack me.
These Spanish vs Portuguese wars or the former Iberian VS Italian were, as far as I know, flamed by Southern Euros 99% of the time.

The most "OWD" users are some delusional users who think that Brazilian whites are less "exotic" or whatever than Southern Europeans, when you only post the types that are more convinient to your own agenda. xD

In a country where even some obvious mixed people or east asians were considered "white".

[Voskos]

Wherever the sun shines, it is light and bright. But then the skin tans, and you get dark enough to be trolled about it. Karma is a bitch.

[Latinus]

The most "OWD" users are some delusional users who think that Brazilian whites are less "exotic" or whatever than Southern Europeans, when you only post the types that are more convinient to your own agenda. xD

In a country where even some obvious mixed people or east asians were considered "white".

But this thread is not about colonial Brazilians...
"Muh, Latinus has an agenda, be careful with that sudaca..."
I won't even sleep tonight because of that, lol. Meanwhile your compatriot Rosignol keeps posting standard Portuguese (or lighter than average) while doing the opposite with Spaniards: darkwashing them.

[Cernunnos]

But this thread is not about colonial Brazilians...
"Muh, Latinus has an agenda, be careful with that sudaca..."
I won't even sleep tonight because of that, lol. Meanwhile your compatriot Rosignol keeps posting standard Portuguese (or lighter than average) while doing the opposite with Spaniards: darkwashing them.

Am I his father or his babysitter? He does whatever he wants, I'm not going to tell him who to do, unless he does some awful action like doxxing or something similar.
I'm not accountable of others actions, but I'm accountable for my own, the same applies for you, did you see me here posting Lighter Portuguese or brown Spaniards? .... xD

In this regard (anthrotard matters) what I've seen from you (and many other Lat.Am users) is to try to pass as many Brazilians/Latinos in Europe by trying to whiteash them, just to be perceived as White (the Holy Grail for latin americans) people.

And talking about people from countries you never went to is the Cherry on the top of the cake like we say here. :lol:

[Rouxinol]

Funny as fuck post, I just stated a fact: these forums tend to atract many Southern Euro OWD people, did you identify with my posts? If not, there is no reason to attack me.
These Spanish vs Portuguese wars or the former Iberian VS Italian were, as far as I know, flamed by Southern Euros 99% of the time.

Funny you mention that Spanish-Italian "war" on this forum. It seems to me that since the Italians left this forum for the most part and created their own (where they troll the Spanish and Portuguese hard) a certain Cristão Novo felt like he had to find a new target.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Of course, Portugal has the honour of being the single Western European country with development levels as eastern european ex-communist countries like Poland or Hungary (even has been surpassed by a south american country as Chile!!!) and more people living outside the country that inside.

It was not easy, but you got it ;)

http://eltoper.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Fronteras-del-mundo-19.jpg

I don't wish to take part on join in this thread's discussion but ironically this news got released (literally) yesterday:

Portugal’s roads among the best

Portugal is the European Union Member State with the second best roads of all 28 countries, according to a report released earlier this week by the European Commission.

The annual ‘Transport Scoreboard’ published in Brussels, shows that, in terms of road quality, Portugal ranks second among the 28 Member States, behind only the Netherlands and ahead of France, who is placed third.

The data in question used to compile the report, refers to a period up until 2017.
But despite having some of the best roads, Portugal remains among the worst for road fatalities.
In terms of road accidents, the report notes that “Portugal has seen a decrease in the number of road deaths since 2010 and is now close to the EU average”, but still only ranks 19th among the 28 Member States.

The study uses a rating system of 1 to 7 to assess the quality of a nation’s roads, with Portugal finishing with 6.05 points, while the Netherlands were handed the top score of 6.18 points.
The worst roads in Europe can meanwhile be found in Romania (2.96 points) and Malta (3.24 points). The overall EU average was set at 4.78 points.

Source: http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/portugals-roads-among-the-best/48792

[Latinus]

Am I his father or his babysitter? He does whatever he wants, I'm not going to tell him who to do, unless he does some awful action like doxxing or something similar.
I'm not accountable of others actions, but I'm accountable for my own, the same applies for you, did you see me here posting Lighter Portuguese or brown Spaniards? .... xD

In this regard (anthrotard matters) what I've seen from you (and many other Lat.Am users) is to try to pass as many Brazilians/Latinos in Europe by trying to whiteash them, just to be perceived as White (the Holy Grail for latin americans) people.

And talking about people from countries you never went to is the Cherry on the top of the cake like we say here. :lol:

No, you're not his babysitter, but if you want to critisize something in this thread, critisize your fellow compatriot and his weird obcession.
No, when I talk about Latinos passing in Southern Europe it means two things:
-They look fully caucasoid (like the guy in my avatar, Mexican with a mestiza grandma, but looks fully Spanish).
-They have mixed features, but are majority caucasoid in phenotype, so they would pass as atypical. You will never see me trying to pass Neymar, Bruna Marquezine, Ronaldo Fenômeno, etc., as whites.
It's not about being perceived as white. It's just showing that we have many whites here, duh.

[Latinus]

Funny you mention that Spanish-Italian "war" on this forum. It seems to me that since the Italians left this forum for the most part and created their own (where they troll the Spanish and Portuguese hard) a certain Cristão Novo felt like he had to find a new target.

It stopped because two of the most active Italians in this fight were banned. Untill some weeks ago we were having lot's of Iberian vs Italian wars.

[Tooting Carmen]

No, you're not his babysitter, but if you want to critisize something in this thread, critisize your fellow compatriot and his weird obcession.
No, when I talk about Latinos passing in Southern Europe it means two things:
-They look fully caucasoid (like the guy in my avatar, Mexican with a mestiza grandma, but looks fully Spanish).
-They have mixed features, but are majority caucasoid in phenotype, so they would pass as atypical. You will never see me trying to pass Neymar, Bruna Marquezine, Ronaldo Fenômeno, etc., as whites.
It's not about being perceived as white. It's just showing that we have many whites here, duh.

I remember years ago posting a thread about the cast of a Chilean film called Mujeres infieles, which included a Spanish actress called Lucia Jimenez, who alnortedelsur classified as Castiza/Harniza. xD
https://iv1.lisimg.com/image/15371129/740full-luc%C3%ADa-jim%C3%A9nez.jpg

[Latinus]

I remember years ago posting a thread about the cast of a Chilean film called Mujeres infieles, which included a Spanish actress called Lucia Jimenez, who alnortedelsur classified as Castiza/Harniza. xD
https://iv1.lisimg.com/image/15371129/740full-luc%C3%ADa-jim%C3%A9nez.jpg

It happens, sometimes people tend to have a more strict view on whiteness when it comes to Latin America.
She is beautiful and doesn't look exotic.

[Tooting Carmen]

It happens, sometimes people tend to have a more strict view on whiteness when it comes to Latin America.
She is beautiful and doesn't look exotic.

I've said before that there is a widespread false assumption that unless a Latin American looks like Tilda Swinton or Nicole Kidman, then he/she must be mixed-race.

[PT Tagus]

Congratulations Iberians!

The main goal of this topic was achieved.

:picard1:

[Latinus]

I've said before that there is a widespread false assumption that unless a Latin American looks like Tilda Swinton or Nicole Kidman, then he/she must be mixed-race.

I even think people like Catherine Zeta Jones would be classified by many users as some kind of mestiza if she was Latina.

[Tooting Carmen]

I even think people like Catherine Zeta Jones would be classified by many users as some kind of mestiza if she was Latina.

Check this old thread of mine out: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?182607-Post-examples-of-Europeans-Asians-or-Africans-with-pseudo-New-World-phenotypes

[Cernunnos]

No, you're not his babysitter, but if you want to critisize something in this thread, critisize your fellow compatriot and his weird obcession.
No, when I talk about Latinos passing in Southern Europe it means two things:
-They look fully caucasoid (like the guy in my avatar, Mexican with a mestiza grandma, but looks fully Spanish).
-They have mixed features, but are majority caucasoid in phenotype, so they would pass as atypical. You will never see me trying to pass Neymar, Bruna Marquezine, Ronaldo Fenômeno, etc., as whites.
It's not about being perceived as white. It's just showing that we have many whites here, duh.

:lol:

In this forum everyone has to be criticized. It's not about showing you have "many whites", it's about oversizing the amount of Whites in Brazil or wtv country it might be, it's so obvious that you forget to mention so many persons just to fit your own agenda. Like I've said, your only goal is to be perceived as much white as possible, and the fact that you and others said that "Brazilian whites looked less exotic than many southern euros" proves that.

[Latinus]

:lol:

In this forum everyone has to be criticized. It's not about showing you have "many whites", it's about oversizing the amount of Whites in Brazil or wtv country it might be, it's so obvious that you forget to mention so many persons just to fit your own agenda. Like I've said, your only goal is to be perceived as much white as possible, and the fact that you and others said that "Brazilian whites looked less exotic than many southern euros" proves that.

Two points:
-I always said Brazil is white minority and I think, phenotypically speaking, whites are 25% of the population, pure ones are even less, I think.
-My problem with white perception in Brazil is when people think they are all rich and live segregated from non-whites, also when many users (even Portuguese ones) think only the Southern region has a sizable white population, which is not true. An average Portuguese fits in Rio/São Paulo (Southeast) just as fine as in the Southern region.

[Latinus]

Check this old thread of mine out: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?182607-Post-examples-of-Europeans-Asians-or-Africans-with-pseudo-New-World-phenotypes

I'm taking a look at it. I have seen a Basque family that I thought were Latinos, but the users said they fit their spectrum.

[Latinus]

Cernnuros is now at the Portuguese forum saying Brazilians think they are European, lol. I'm not Euro and I don't want to be one nor think I'm one.
7 years old argument.

[Cernunnos]

Cernnuros is now at the Portuguese forum saying Brazilians think they are European, lol. I'm not Euro and I don't want to be one nor think I'm one.
7 years old argument.

xD

Are you Illiterate?

[Latinus]

xD

Are you Illiterate?

Many are pred-Euro and even the pure ones don't really think they are Europeans.

[Cernunnos]

Many are pred-Euro and even the pure ones don't really think they are Europeans.

I didn't talk about Brazilians as the general population, the average joe, can you understand a text ffs?

[Latinus]

I didn't talk about Brazilians as the general population, the average joe, can you understand a text ffs?

Whatever, the average joe here or the average joe non-anthrotard don't identify as Euro.

[Arsen_]

"lethargy for eight centuries".....my friend, just take 5 minutes of your time and do the following: make a quick 30 second research in Google about the size and population of Portugal.
Then check the size, population and number of countries where Portuguese is an official language.
Then check how many hundreds of millions of people speak Portuguese as a mother tongue.

I think that in less than 5 minutes you'll be elucidated about the lethargy of the Portuguese....

- Do you know that Portugal and Spain have the oldest boundaries in Europe? Do you think that maintaining those borders was easy when you have a neighbour who is 4-5 times bigger than you?
Portugal proclaimed its sovereignity in 1139, at a time when the Kingdom of Spain didn't even exist. We have only lost that sovereignity during 1580-1640, in a succession crisis because there were no direct heirs to the throne. Filipe II was the grandson of King Manuel I and the strongest candidate. The other strongest candidate was another grandson of King Manuel I named António, Prior do Crato, but he was an illegitimate/bastard child so...Filipe II was named King of Portugal and established the Iberian Union.
The other occurence is a couple of years (1807-10) derived from the Napoleonic Invasions, but these were 3 invasions and not occupation of the territory.


As for not "is not among most developed ones" that will depend on your definition of "developed ones"...
I'll concede that Portugal lags behind the more developed states in Europe, but by all modern official standards, we're still in that group.
We're 41st in the last HDI of UNDP, although the debt crisis of the last decade has had severe consequences. We were 34th in the 2009 HDI.


Lethargy...check the dictionary....

Lethargy was a wrong word used because of your intolerable compatriot and I agree that until certain times Portuguese doing pretty well, but then something went wrong and despite having the best cards in their hands they lost the game to other European nations! And that is a mystery for me why it went that way!

Also I kind of envy you in a good way, you guys a lucky bunch, you live eight centuries without war on your homeland (overseas war is not a real war!), you should have been a lighthouse for everyone and not trail somewhere behind!

[Tooting Carmen]

Lethargy was a wrong word used because of your intolerable compatriot and I agree that until certain times Portuguese doing pretty well, but then something went wrong and despite having the best cards in their hands they lost the game to other European nations! And that is a mystery for me why it went that way!

Also I kind of envy you in a good way, you guys a lucky bunch, you live eight centuries without war on your homeland (overseas war is not a real war!), you should have been a lighthouse for everyone and not trail somewhere behind!

During World War II, both the Allies and Axis powers used Portugal a lot to trade and smuggle goods.

[Hyoga7]

Lethargy was a wrong word used because of your intolerable compatriot and I agree that until certain times Portuguese doing pretty well, but then something went wrong and despite having the best cards in their hands they lost the game to other European nations! And that is a mystery for me why it went that way!

Also I kind of envy you in a good way, you guys a lucky bunch, you live eight centuries without war on your homeland (overseas war is not a real war!), you should have been a lighthouse for everyone and not trail somewhere behind!


Externally, we lost it in 2002 and 2004! Internally, we lost it because of having a very ineficient public/political system, particularly justice, corrupt politicians and suffering the consequences of the longest dictatorship in Western Europe in what concerns people's qualifications, civic attitude, etc.

2002 - Euro currency. A straighjacket for the Southern countries, the so called PIGS. They lost control of currency exchange and interest rates. No capability of adjusting the currency to address external shocks and conjuncture. Easy money pouring in from rich Europe at very low rates: spend, spend, spend and of course when it's easy money...control is lax and money is squandered and "given" to the "wrong" people no matter what: corruption, bribery, embezzlement, inflated business "deals"...
One just has to see the economic performance of the 4 PIGS since 2002: debt, economic growth, unemployment...
A genius plan of Germany to control Europe without a single shot. All that was needed was the printing presses of the ECB in Frankfurt!

2004: huge enlargement of the EU to the East. 10 countries with more that 70 million people joining. Cheaper Labour and more Consumers. Perfect for the companies of France, Germany and Northern Europe. Add 2007 with the 27 million Romanians and Bulgarians.
More jobs being shifted from the PIGS to these cheaper countries.

Then comes the 2008 crisis. It's time to pay the piper. Debt is out of control. The economy freezes. Unemployment skyrockets. Banks and companies are saved by the States. The rich countries come to "save" the PIGS. They lend more money with harsh conditions. The PIGS collapse, bend over and lose sovereignity. Their young people leave for rich Europe. They have to sell public companies to foreigners.


A recent study by a German(!) think-tank: https://www.dw.com/en/cep-study-germany-gains-most-from-euro-introduction/a-47675856.

[Rouxinol]

Lethargy was a wrong word used because of your intolerable compatriot and I agree that until certain times Portuguese doing pretty well, but then something went wrong and despite having the best cards in their hands they lost the game to other European nations! And that is a mystery for me why it went that way!

Also I kind of envy you in a good way, you guys a lucky bunch, you live eight centuries without war on your homeland (overseas war is not a real war!), you should have been a lighthouse for everyone and not trail somewhere behind!

Again, there were wars on Portuguese mainland throughout those eight centuries - even a civil war! - but I agree that those were minor. Other than the Reconquista wars, which led to the foundation of Portugal as an independent nation, the biggest war the Portuguese have ever experienced was the Portuguese Colonial War from 1961 to 1975 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Colonial_War) with three war fronts: Angola, Mozambique and Guinea. 14 years of uninterrupted war against Soviet-backed armed guerrillas in Africa were very consuming financially. Add to that the fact that - again - a Soviet-backed communist coup ousted the right-wing Portuguese regime in 1974 and the guys who followed were communists and socialists who ruined the country with nationalizations (even agriculture was nationalized!) and dismantling of the private sector of the economy. As a matter of fact, some of the biggest Portuguese businessmen had to flee the country and only came back to Portugal in the 1980s! And only in the 1990s did the government begin to re-privatize the Portuguese economy. Besides, the Portuguese government during Estado Novo (1933-1974, or 1926-1974 if we count in the Military Dictatorship period) had a very clear policy for Africa:

1) Before WWII: develop Portuguese Southern Africa and settle it with Portuguese people so that other European powers of the time (mainly the United Kingdom) wouldn't claim those large swathes of uninhabited land to themselves.

2) After WWII: further develop and settle Angola and Mozambique so the Soviet-backed guerrillas wouldn't take them from the Portuguese. Portugal actually spent the IMMENSE RICHES of Angola and Mozambique (diamonds, minerals, oil) on those territories, not on the mainland back in Europe. It's sad to see what blacks have done to everything Portugal built after they got their "independence".

Had Portugal exploited Angola and Mozambique and invested the money here (as France did with its African colonies), and hadn't the Soviet-backed communists carried a military coup in 1974 (with all the havoc that followed) and we'd be much better, probably on par with NW European countries in terms of wealth.

[Cristiano viejo]

I clearly notice huge racial differencies between Badajoz and Elvas, it´s like meeting extraterrestial people.

Go to Oporto, then to Pucela and we talk.

[Rouxinol]

https://youtu.be/67h6lQp1o9w

Letra/Lyrics:

Quem me dera que tu fosses pó caralho.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Lethargy was a wrong word used because of your intolerable compatriot and I agree that until certain times Portuguese doing pretty well, but then something went wrong and despite having the best cards in their hands they lost the game to other European nations! And that is a mystery for me why it went that way!

Also I kind of envy you in a good way, you guys a lucky bunch, you live eight centuries without war on your homeland (overseas war is not a real war!), you should have been a lighthouse for everyone and not trail somewhere behind!

What went wrong was late industrialization, we fell behind in that period.

It is not true that we had 8 centuries without wars in our territory, there were several against Castille-Spain, also the Peninsular war vs Napoleon, civil war...overseas many many wars, most recently the colonial war in Africa (1961-75).

[Sebastianus Rex]

In fact we spanish and portuguese are very friendly people between us. There´s no confrontation between us at all. I consider Portugal a brother country.

But if a troll like Rossignol begins to blame us in that way, I just remember him who´s up and who´s down.


Absolutely agree with your last words. All Portuguese members here are nice people, except Rossignol who is a traitor to his own fucking peninsula.

Rossignol is our CV. xD