Do Szekelys look closer to Hungarians or Romanians?

[ixulescu]

This question seems to pop-up quite often. But it seems to me that most people here haven't seen yet how Szekelys look like.

So before you vote in the poll take some time to watch this short vid:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uVierI8NR8

[Blondie]

Other székelys for helping:

http://erdelyben.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ezerszekelyl%C3%A1ny4.jpg

https://media.szekelyhon.ro/pictures/csik/aktualis/2017/07_junius/04/b_ezer-szekely-leany-talalkozo-csoportkep-gn_-12.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AU_K0LJqbX4/ThILRxYhY3I/AAAAAAAAA4A/j3xBOTBtuNE/s1600/DSC_3375.JPG

https://hirado.cms.mtv.hu/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2015/07/D_MTI20150704019-1024x681.jpg

http://szabadsag.ro/image/journal/article?img_id=3508881&t=1501086757313

https://www.maszol.ro/uploads/files/userfiles/images/kulfold/2017/J%C3%BAlius/01/DSC_9766.jpg

https://felvidek.ma/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/42445.JPG

https://bukovina.hu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Somberek2.jpg

https://media.szekelyhon.ro/pictures/csik/aktualis/2015/06_julius/b_1000szekelyleany-32.jpg

https://media.szekelyhon.ro/pictures/csik/aktualis/2013/06_julius/b_ezer-szekely-leany-napja-2013-vn-102.jpg

http://multikult.transindex.ro/images/__leo/cikkek/cikkek_43249.jpg

http://multikult.transindex.ro/images/__leo/cikkek/cikkek_43250.jpg

http://www.transindex.ro/images/__leo/galeriak/galeria_2216.jpg

[ixulescu]

^ The people in those pics are not Szekelys. You can see the buses behind them.
These people come every year to Romania for the pilgrimage at Șumuleu Ciuc.

Btw, you won't see that percentage of blondes not even among Swedes.
Clearly staged, cherry picked, photos.


Comment on the video.

[Blondie]

^ The people in those pics are not Szekelys. You can see the buses behind them.
These people come every year to Romania for the pilgrimage at Șumuleu Ciuc.

Btw, you won't see that percentage of blondes not even among Swedes.
Clearly staged, cherry picked, photos.


Comment on the video.

Okay you are troll for sure. These peoples are all székelys in székely national dress, and these "cherry picked" photos are all group photos but no problem.... :picard1:

You are just angry because your old claim "székelys are hungarized romanians" is not true.

[ixulescu]

Okay you are troll for sure. These peoples are all székelys, and these "cherry picked" photos are all group photos but no problem.... :picard1:

Then how come the people in the video look strikingly different?

[Blondie]

Then how come the people in the video look strikingly different?

This is a cherry picked video, you choosed it because their look closer to romanians.

[Blondie]

By the way, székely haplogroups:

20% r1b, 19% r1a, 17% I1, 11% J2, 10% J1, 8% e-v13, 5% i2a:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9kelys#Genetics

Romanian haplogroups:

28% I2a, 18% r1a, 15,5% r1b, 14% E-v13, 13,5% J2, 3,5% I1
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Totally different...

[ixulescu]

You are just angry because your old claim "székelys are hungarized romanians" is not true.

I don't claim this. As a population, they came from Hungary, and settled on the border of Transylvania on the request of the Hungarian king (12-13th century). However, they acquired a lifestyle similar to the Romanians living in vicinity, and historically mixed with Romanians a lot, despite the differences in religious denomination (in contrast to Hungarians).

To me, they look more Romanian than Hungarian.

[Impaler]

In my opinion the halfway between Hungarians and Romanians. I've seen recently some Szekelers, and if I didn't hear them speaking Hungarian I thought they are Romanian.

[ixulescu]

This is a cherry picked video, you choosed it because their look closer to romanians.

It's hard to cherry pick 14 minutes of video.

[Blondie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Zef-xflZg

[Blondie]

I don't claim this. As a population, they came from Hungary, and settled on the border of Transylvania on the request of the Hungarian king (12-13th century). However, they acquired a lifestyle similar to the Romanians living in vicinity, and historically mixed with Romanians a lot, despite the differences in religious denomination (in contrast to Hungarians).

To me, they look more Romanian than Hungarian.

Székelys lived in Transylvania since 5. century you retard :D Thy are descedants of Huns.

[ixulescu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Zef-xflZg

Again, you're showing Hungarians.

Personally, I don't understand why revisionists from Hungary are allowed to enter Romania.
But damn, they are dark :D

Why are all Hungarian nationalists look like hardcore Balkanites?

[ixulescu]

Székelys lived in Transylvania since 5. century you retard :D Thy are descedants of Huns.

yeah sure

[Blondie]

Btw, you won't see that percentage of blondes not even among Swedes.

They look typical central european not scandinavian :D But i know this high % light hair is not common among romanians, but this is full normal in Hungary.

[Blondie]

Again, you're showing Hungarians.

Personally, I don't understand why revisionists from Hungary are allowed to enter Romania.
But damn, they are dark :D

Why are all Hungarian nationalists look like hardcore Balkanites?

I know what is your point with this troll thread, and now you are insulting hungarians, but don't worry you won't drag me down to your level.

[ixulescu]

They look typical central european not scandinavian :D this is full normal in Hungary.

so much bullshit, I feel like posting Hungarian garda pics so people can assess the right amount of blonds among Hungarians

[Blondie]

Again, you're showing Hungarians.

They are székelys you f*cking troll.

[Blondie]

so much bullshit, I feel like posting Hungarian garda pics so people can assess the right amount of blonds among Hungarians

Educate yourself you troll:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?279687-Pigmentation-of-Hungarians


It appears that Hungarians are very central European when it comes to pigmentation of hair and eyes

[ixulescu]

They are székelys you f*cking troll.

You're showing us G. Vona and his gypo circus travelling to Romania, then claim they're Szekelys. Fuck off.

[Blondie]

HUngarians:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282145-Members-of-the-quot-Bar%E1tok-K%F6zt-quot-most-popular-hungarian-TV-show-Can-they-pass-in-your-country&highlight=bar%E1tok+k%F6zt

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282487-Poll!!-Actors-of-hungarian-quot-Szeress-most!-quot-TV-show&highlight=szeress

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?275837-Rank-European-countries-for-these-Hungarian-scouts

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238036-Place-Hungary-women-s-national-handball-team-where-do-they-fit&highlight=hungary+handball

THey are absolutely not balkanites.

[ixulescu]

HUngarians:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282145-Members-of-the-quot-Bar%E1tok-K%F6zt-quot-most-popular-hungarian-TV-show-Can-they-pass-in-your-country&highlight=bar%E1tok+k%F6zt

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282487-Poll!!-Actors-of-hungarian-quot-Szeress-most!-quot-TV-show&highlight=szeress

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?275837-Rank-European-countries-for-these-Hungarian-scouts

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?238036-Place-Hungary-women-s-national-handball-team-where-do-they-fit&highlight=hungary+handball

THey are absolutely not balkanites.

I said magyar garda look hardcore balkanites, don't twist my words.

And by the way, 1/3 of Hungarians do look Balkanite, no matter how much you dislike this.

[Blondie]

You're showing us G. Vona and his gypo circus travelling to Romania, then claim they're Szekelys. Fuck off.

You just can't accept the fact, we are not balkanites unlike romanians, that really frustrates you.

Autosomal genetic maps, hungarians are typical central euros romanians are typical balkanites accept it:

https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/image5.png

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2011/05/sobpc.jpg

[ixulescu]

You just can't accept the fact, we are not balkanites unlike romanians, that really frustrates you.

Autosomal genetic maps, hungarians are typical central euros romanians are typical balkanites accept it:


None of that contradicts what I said before.
You're still in the 30% Balkanite looks.

[Blondie]

I said magyar garda look hardcore balkanites, don't twist my words.

And by the way, 1/3 of Hungarians do look Balkanite, no matter how much you dislike this.

Magyar Gárda:

http://m.atv.hu/thumbnail/772x514/8/c4/10000.jpg

Romanian nationalists:

https://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ce39f53ef01157009f073970b-pi

The first one is clearly lighter.

[ixulescu]

Magyar Gárda:


:rotfl: more cherry picked pictures


let's see what Google thinks of Magyar Garda :rotfl:

https://www.google.com/search?q=magyar+garda&rlz=1C2GCEU_enUS824US824&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhppPm2JHhAhXk5IMKHRdmAmAQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1


look at these blond cuties:

https://i.postimg.cc/8c3krM6D/1.png

[Genovefa]

Btw, you won't see that percentage of blondes not even among Swedes.

Uh, they don't seem THAT blonde to me

[ixulescu]

Uh, they don't seem THAT blonde to me

not that blond but way lighter than in reality, especially for Szekelys.

[Nurzat]

let me tell you why I think the question is pointless: even if you take northeast Romanians versus southwest Romanians you will have slight differences, or north Germans versus south Germans. so putting Szeklers (extreme east Hungarians) versus Hungarians in Hungary doesn't prove anything, no matter the difference or the similarity in looks. the same in Ukraine - are Ruthenians in the Carpathians less Ukrainian because they have a slightly bigger percentage of Dinarid and Alpinid than lowlands Ukrainians?

[Joso]

I don't know how Hungarians and Romanians look like but i think Szekelys look Hungarian

[Blondie]

:rotfl: more cherry picked pictures


let's see what Google thinks of Magyar Garda :rotfl:

https://www.google.com/search?q=magyar+garda&rlz=1C2GCEU_enUS824US824&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhppPm2JHhAhXk5IMKHRdmAmAQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1


look at these blond cuties:

https://i.postimg.cc/8c3krM6D/1.png

I have never said they are blonde or something but they are not different race, they look pretty central european :D

Romanian nationalist:

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/GettyImages-542916078-1160x780.jpg

https://media.hotnews.ro/media_server1/image-2017-10-4-22036448-0-protest-cartel-alfa-4.jpg

https://alina_stefanescu.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ce39f53ef01157009f073970b-pi

https://hungarytoday.hu/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/noua_dreapta3_SA_5f5cda1e3b.jpg

The Magyar Gárda is clearly lighter.

[ixulescu]

The Magyar Gárda is clearly darker.

No doubt they are, it would be interesting to find out why.


These are Romanian nationalists as Google sees them:

https://www.google.com/search?q=intalnirea+tinerilor+ortodocsi&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxo8DO25HhAhWFx4MKHY1LD5UQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1#imgrc=B4NPrT44RI4zmM:

[Blondie]

No doubt they are, it would be interesting to find out why.


These are Romanian nationalists as Google sees them:

https://www.google.com/search?q=intalnirea+tinerilor+ortodocsi&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxo8DO25HhAhWFx4MKHY1LD5UQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1#imgrc=B4NPrT44RI4zmM:

Not darker you stupid balkanite troll, it was a mistake :D

[ixulescu]

Not darker you stupid balkanite troll, it was a mistake :D

:rotfl:

Google search solved that question.

Magyar garda are dark as fuck. Question is why?

[Blondie]

:rotfl:

Google search solved your question.
Magyar garda are dark as fuck. Question is why?

Yes google search proved my truth and you really think that hungarians are dark balkanites and romanians are lighter? :D :D

[ixulescu]

Yes google search proved my truth and you really think that hungarians are dark balkanites and romanians are lighter? :D :D

Google search showed Hungarian nationalists clearly darker than Romanian nationalists.
You can scream bias all you want, but this is how nationalists from both countries look on average.

[Blondie]

Google search showed Romanian nationalists clearly darker than Hungarian nationalists.

I agree!

[ixulescu]

I agree!

You're struggling with reality. I know it's sometimes a pain :D

[Blondie]

You're struggling with reality. I know it's sometimes a pain :D

And what is the reality? Romanians are blonde blue eyed pale euros and hungarians are dark skinned balkanites? :D Do you really belive in this? :D By the way reality, you live in USA you know nothing about hungarians or romanians... :D

[ixulescu]

And what is the reality? Romanians are blonde blue eyed pale euros and hungarians are dark skinned balkanites? :D Do you really belive in this? :D

More twists and turns.
I showed that Hungarian nationalists are darker than Romanian nationalists. Hungarians overall are somewhat lighter than Romanians (30% vs 20% light hair, in Hungary vs Romania). My question was, where is this discrepancy coming from? Do you have an answer?



By the way reality, you live in USA you know nothing about hungarians or romanians... :D

I'm born and raised in Romania, and I travel to the region every year. I know roads in Hungary better than you do.

[Blondie]

I showed that Hungarian nationalists are darker than Romanian nationalists.

This is just your opinion and my opinion is different. By the way what about Krisztina Morvai ex Magyar Gárda member?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Morvai_Krisztina.jpg

Or Tamás Esze the "véderő" leader?

http://m.atv.hu/thumbnail/772x514/7/e9/40000.jpg

[ixulescu]

who cares about 2 or 3 individuals? overall magyar garda are dark af.

look at those guys in the background :rotfl: this pic is a keeper

http://m.atv.hu/thumbnail/772x514/7/e9/40000.jpg

[Blondie]

who cares about 2 or 3 individuals? overall magyar garda are dark af.

look at those guys in the background :rotfl: this pic is a keeper

http://m.atv.hu/thumbnail/772x514/7/e9/40000.jpg

They are 100 times more whiter than romanians :D If they are darks than romanians are negroids....

[ixulescu]

They are 100 times more whiter than romanians :D If they are darks than romanians are negroids....

Magyar garda are darker than most Balkanites.
Probably their whole nationalist cosplay is just overcompensation for dark skin. Pretty sad.

[Blondie]

Romanian nationalists are darker than most Balkanites.
Probably their whole nationalist cosplay is just overcompensation for dark skin. Pretty sad.

Another good comment!

[ixulescu]

Another good comment!

Indeed, deal with it :D


This woman by the way, looks typical Romanian

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Morvai_Krisztina.jpg

[Blondie]

Hungarian nationalists from all group which i know:

http://ujmagyargardamozgalom.com/sites/default/files/magyar_garda_1.jpg

https://pestisracok.hu/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/vona_garda.jpg

https://felvidek.ma/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/jobbik.hu_.jpg

http://www.atv.hu/thumbnail/772x514/8/c4/10000.jpg

http://ujmagyargardamozgalom.com/sites/default/files/feher1_0.JPG

https://kep.cdn.indexvas.hu/1/0/449/4493/44932/4493214_3da2b216e460343cda26d566279dc065_wm.jpg

http://galeria.hir24.hu/files/559/045/000/45559/45559_354111_750x450.jpg

http://galeria.hir24.hu/files/559/045/000/45559/45559_354116_750x450.jpg

https://kuruc.info/galeriaN/hir/Nemzeti_Orsereg-Kiralyhelmec1.jpg

http://www.magyarvagyok.hu/media/csoportok/1/1/Nemzeti-Orsereg-104-0-851x315.jpg

https://hungarynews.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/m-first-gc3a1rda-initiation-10.jpg

https://harcunk.info/images/domiszalasi.jpg

https://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/apetiatad01.JPG

http://m.atv.hu/thumbnail/400x600/4/b2/30000.jpg

https://i0.wp.com/csepel.info/wp-content/uploads/20150311vona-gabor-betyarsereg.jpg

https://kuruc.info/j/480/egyeb/gulyascigany04.jpg

http://politicalcapital.hu/pc-admin/source/bejegyzesek/szelsojobb%20monitor/201810/2018_10_img03.png?1543492265319

https://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/zshung56082.jpg

https://dw99kd9o82oas.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/paxhu.jpg?x11502

If you think they are balkanites than you are simple troll.

[Blondie]

Indeed, deal with it :D


This woman by the way, looks typical Romanian

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Morvai_Krisztina.jpg

Typical romanian is blonde blue eyed? :D Okay you are trolling, that's 100%. It seems to me few romanian user has absolutely no life.

[ixulescu]

If you think they are balkanites than you are simple troll.

90% of them pass as native Balkanites.

this is the regular stadium crowd anywhere in the Balkans:

http://politicalcapital.hu/pc-admin/source/bejegyzesek/szelsojobb%20monitor/201810/2018_10_img03.png?1543492265319

Judging by your statements here, I don't think you really know how Balkanites look like.

[ixulescu]

Typical romanian is blonde blue eyed? :D Okay you are trolling, that's 100%. It seems to me few romanian user has absolutely no life.

She's not blonde, dim fuck.

[Blondie]

90% of them pass as native Balkanites.

this is the regular stadium crowd anywhere in the Balkans:

http://politicalcapital.hu/pc-admin/source/bejegyzesek/szelsojobb%20monitor/201810/2018_10_img03.png?1543492265319

Judging by your statements here, I don't think you really know how Balkanites look like.

And 90% romanian nationalist pass as native turkish, middle eastern.

[Blondie]

She's not blonde, dim fuck.

She is blonde you middle eastern :D

[ixulescu]

She is blonde you middle eastern :D

You can't even tell a bottle blonde from an actual blonde.


Alright, I'll let you enjoy your fav pics for the rest of the evening, nighty night:

Blonde garda (https://www.google.com/search?q=magyar+garda&rlz=1C2GCEU_enUS824US824&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhppPm2JHhAhXk5IMKHRdmAmAQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1)

https://i.postimg.cc/8c3krM6D/1.png

[Blondie]

You can't even tell a bottle blonde from an actual blonde.


Alright, I'll let you enjoy your fav pics for the rest of the evening, nighty night:

Blonde garda (https://www.google.com/search?q=magyar+garda&rlz=1C2GCEU_enUS824US824&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=isz:l&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhppPm2JHhAhXk5IMKHRdmAmAQpwUIHw&biw=1280&bih=891&dpr=1)

https://i.postimg.cc/8c3krM6D/1.png

Yes they are euros but dear gypsiescu these nationalist are typical midle eastern:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWFQ2oiElos


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9unN74ej70


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c73uIWF6PyU

:lol00002::lol00002:

[Blondie]

https://piticigratis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/61962926.jpg

http://media.hotnews.ro/media_server1/image-2018-12-14-22867907-70-liviu-dragnea.jpg

http://www.itthon.ma/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/traian-basescu-prima-reactie-dupa-suspendarea-prim-adjunctului-sri-florian-coldea-428325.jpg

[IrisSelene]

To me some look romanian some look hungarian idk

[Pribislav]

By the way, székely haplogroups:

20% r1b, 19% r1a, 17% I1, 11% J2, 10% J1, 8% e-v13, 5% i2a:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9kelys#Genetics

17% I1 among Szekelys is Saxon input I would say.

I2a is only 5%, interesting...

Total J is 21%, how this happened? :confused:
Looks like Szekelys are European group with the highest J1.

[Joso]

17% I1 among Szekelys is Saxon input I would say.

I2a is only 5%, interesting...

Total J is 21%, how this happened? :confused:
Looks like Szekelys are European group with the highest J1.

I apreciate your knowledge, so i would like to do two questions: Were Szekelys come from and which are their ancestry?

[Pribislav]

I apreciate your knowledge, so i would like to do two questions: Were Szekelys come from and which are their ancestry?

This is debatable question.
Some historians think they are Hunic leftoevers, some they are Avar leftovers. And some think they are Hungarians who moved from Pannonia to Carpathians in 11th century to be border guards towards the Cumans and Pechenegs.
Their ethno-genesis is for sure more complex than anything what I mentioned in previous sentence.

[Blondie]

I apreciate your knowledge, so i would like to do two questions: Were Szekelys come from and which are their ancestry?

Székelys are descedants of huns, they have the highest % Q haplogroup (hun marker) in the complete East, Central, West and South Europe:

"In Central- Eastern Europe, Q-M242 comprises about 1.7% of males. Q-M242 is found in about 2% of Russians,[95] 1.5% of Belarusians,[96] 1.3% of Ukrainians[97] 0.5 [98] 1.3% of Poles (Poland),[99] 2% of Czechs,[100] 1.5% of Slovaks,[101] about 2.2% of Hungarians,[102][103] 1.2% of Romanians,[104] 0.8% of Moldovans,[105] and 0.5% (4/808: 2 Q-M378, 1 Q-M346, 1 Q-M25) of Bulgarians[106] On the other hand, 3.1% of Székelys from Transylvania (who have claimed to be descendants of Attila’s Huns) turned out to be P* (xR1-M173),[107] which virtually means Q-M242. In a related DNA Project of FT-DNA, the frequency of Q-M25 in Székelys (Szeklers) reaches 4.3%.[108][109]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242

"Medieval scholars also agreed that the Székelys had already been present in the Carpathian Basin before the Hungarians (or Magyars) conquered the territory.[2] The early 13th-century Gesta Hungarorum was the first to mention that the Székelys "were previously the peoples"[3] of Attila the Hun.[1] According to the same source, the Székelys "gave their sons as hostages along with diverse gifts"[3] to the Hungarian chieftain, Ősbő, at the Körös River before joining his campaign against Menumorut.[4][5] Simon of Kéza stated that the Székelys were "remnants of the Huns" who "remained on the field of Csigla"[6] after the fall of the Hunnic Empire.[1][2]"

The first székely ruler was Prince Csaba, and he was hun warlord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Csaba

Székely Hymn:

"Who knows where destiny leads us
On this rough road..... and dark night.
Lead your people once again to victory, Csaba, Prince Royal, on a heavenly path.
Our ancestors crumble to dust through these wars of nations, as cliffs on rough seas.
The flood is upon us, oh, overwhelming us a hundred fold,
Lord, don't let us lose Transylvania!

As long as we live, Peoples of Hungary, our spirit shall not be broken:
Wherever we are born, whatever corner of the earth, whether our fate be good, or cruel.
Such sorrowful a past - our millenia of misfortune,
The ravages of Tatars and Turks and the Austrian yoke.
Let us inherit our nation, the land of the Székely, in a free fatherland, to live in happiness."
http://www.americanhungarianfederation.org/FamousHungarians/szekhimn.htm

[Mingle]

Székelys are descedants of huns, they have the highest % Q haplogroup (hun marker) in the complete East, Central, West and South Europe

The Q haplogroup comes from the Old Hungarians. Szeklers have nothing to do with Huns. They just have more Old Magyar ancestry than Hungarians from Hungary do.

[oszkar07]

They look between Hungarians and little bit mixture of both.

[Adam Janossy]

Having been in Székelyland this summer I can confirm, they look Hungarian, not Romanian.

[Adam Janossy]

^ The people in those pics are not Szekelys. You can see the buses behind them.
These people come every year to Romania for the pilgrimage at Șumuleu Ciuc.

Btw, you won't see that percentage of blondes not even among Swedes.
Clearly staged, cherry picked, photos.


Comment on the video.

Please stop spreading hatred against Hungarians, these people are Székelys, and many Székelys came from Hungary and from Székelyland for this event. They are wearing székely folk costumes.

[Blondie]

The Q haplogroup comes from the Old Hungarians. Szeklers have nothing to do with Huns. They just have more Old Magyar ancestry than Hungarians from Hungary do.

Q haplogroup came from huns:

"Many of clades of haplogroup Q1a are believed to have been brought by the Huns, the Mongols and the Turks, who all originated in the Altai region and around modern Mongolia. Haplogroup Q has been identified in Iron Age remains from Hunnic sites in Mongolia by Petkovski et al. (2006) and in Xinjiang by Kang et al. (2013). Modern Mongols belong to various subclades of Q1a, including by order of frequency Q1a2a1c (L330), Q1a1a1 (M120), Q1a1b (M25) and Q1a2a2 (YP4004)."

"Q1a1b1 (L712): found in Central & Eastern Europe (probably Hunnic and/or Mongolian)"

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_Q_Y-DNA.shtml

Old hungarians had hun genetic:
"According to our data half of the conqueror population had Xiongnu origin, corroborating the statement of medieval Hungarian chronicles, which all declare Hunnic origin of the Hungarians. "
http://doktori.bibl.u-szeged.hu/3794/2/Neparaczki_Thesis_english.pdf

Hungarians/székelys have hun names, like Csaba, Attila, Buda (bleda), Bendegúz, Levente etc.

[Hungarian_master]

They are between both, but closer to Hungarians.

[Blondie]

Please stop spreading hatred against Hungarians, these people are Székelys, and many Székelys came from Hungary and from Székelyland for this event. They are wearing székely folk costumes.

This troll think székelys are just magyarized romanians, hungarians are dark skinned and average romanians are blonde blue eyed. I have never seen such autistic troll like him.

[Turul Karom]

Typical anti-Hungarian trollposting. Wrong about haplogroups, wrong about autosomal, and wrong about phenotype while posting no studies to corroborate their own claims.

More references:

https://i.imgur.com/TsKkvbP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MTOhuzy.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yselpEi.jpg

[Blondie]

Typical anti-Hungarian trollposting. Wrong about haplogroups, wrong about autosomal, and wrong about phenotype while posting no studies to corroborate their own claims.

You wrote it to me? :D

[Turul Karom]

You wrote it to me? :D

No? I would have quoted something specific from you. I don't like when you sometimes use wikipedia clips rather than quoting from source material but you post studies, and have also a few posts above which are not wikipedia. This is good. It was not towards you.

[Blondie]

No? I would have quoted something specific from you. I don't like when you sometimes use wikipedia clips rather than quoting from source material but you post studies, and have also a few posts above which are not wikipedia. This is good. It was not towards you.

Okay the complete source:

Y Chromosome Variation in Modern Hungarian and Szekler Populations

In addition, 21 Y‐chromosomal polymorphic markers of the two Hungarian‐speaking populations were analysed (Figure 4). The Y‐haplogroups observed in these two Hungarian ethnic groups are similar to those found among many other Europeans (Semino et al., 2000a).

Hg R1a1‐M17 is the most frequent Y chromosome clade in the modern Hungarian population (30%) and encompasses 18.6% of the Szekler Y‐chromosomal gene pool. The age of M17 has been estimated at 15 kilo years ago (KYA). It is likely that it arose in the Ukrainian glacial refuge, where this mutation is found with high frequency (>50%) (Semino et al., 2000a; Wells et al., 2001). This Hg is frequent in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and Northwest India (Semino et al., 2000a; Wells et al., 2001; Passarino et al., 2001; Kivisild et al., 2003).

The current distribution of R1a1‐M17 in Europe shows an increasing west‐east frequency and variance gradients with peaks among Finno‐Ugric and Slavic speakers (Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein).

The R1a1‐M17 frequency in Hungarians (30%) and Szeklers (18.6%) is comparable to that in their neighbours (e.g. Czechs and Slovaks, mainland Croatians, Bosnians, Romanians, Serbians) and some other Uralic‐speaking populations (e.g. Estonian, Komis, Mordvin) (Tambets et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein). The expansion of this haplogroup might have occurred at least three major episodes of gene flow: early post‐LGM recolonization of Europe from the refugial area of present‐day Ukraine (Semino et al., 2000a), migrations from the northern Pontic steppe between 3000 and 1000 BC and the historically attested Slavic migration from the 5th to 7th centuries AD (Peričić et al., 2005; Brather, 2001; Fusek, 2004).

Hg R1b‐M269, in contrast to R1a1‐M17, has its highest frequency in western Europe and decreases in eastern and southern Europe; the R1b variance shows multiple peaks in West Europe and Asia Minor (Semino et al., 2000a; Peričić et al., 2005). These spatial patterns possibly reflect the re‐peopling of Europe from Iberia and Asia Minor during the Late Upper Paleolithic and Holocene (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004).

Similar frequencies of R1b as in the Hungarian speakers are found in some Slavic populations (mainland Croatians, Slovenians, Poles, Bulgarians); and in some Uralic‐speakers (Komis, Khanties, Mordvin) as well as in Romanian and Turkish populations (Tambets et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein).

The presence of central‐Asian haplogroup P*(xM173) in Szeklers is unusual for a European population, since it is almost absent in continental Europe (Wells et al., 2001) and presumably reflects some Asian contribution, before or after reaching Transylvania.

Hg I‐M170 is the only Y‐chromosome haplogroup that is confined almost exclusively to the European continent (Semino et al., 2000a; Rootsi et al., 2004). Its virtual absence elsewhere, including the Near East, suggests that the defining mutation arose in Europe, most probably before the LGM (Semino et al., 2000a). Semino et al. (2000a) and Barać et al. (2003) proposed that the northern Balkans could have been a possible LGM refugium and a reservoir of M170. Rootsi et al. (2004) estimated that its major subclades, I1a, I1b and I1c all diverged from I* in the Late Upper Paleolithic/Mesolithic Period. Subclade I1a‐M253 accounts for most of Hg I (88–100%) in Scandinavia, with a rapidly decreasing frequency toward both the East European Plain and the Atlantic fringe, but microsatellite diversity reveals that the Franco‐Cantabrian refugial area could have been the source of the early spread of both I1a and the less common I1c (Rootsi et al., 2004).

Hg I1b‐P37 is the most frequent haplogroup I clade in Eastern Europe and the Balkans (Rootsi et al., 2004). According to Peričić et al. (2005) the I1b*(xM26) lineages might have expanded from southeastern Europe to central, eastern and southern Europe, presumably not earlier than the Younger Dryas to Holocene transition and not later than the early Neolithic. In central and eastern Europe I1a and I1b show overlapping frequency gradients (Rootsi et al., 2004).

Haplogroup I was detected with almost equal frequency in the two modern populations: 24% in Hungarians and 21.7% in Szeklers. However, two of its major subclades‐ I1a‐M253 and I1b*(xM26) – show an opposite occurrence in the two ethnic groups, 8% and 13%, respectively, in Hungarians, and 16.5% and 5.2% in Szeklers. These are within the range of normal central and eastern European values (Rootsi et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005). The elevated frequency of Hg I1a together with higher frequency of R1b‐M269 in Szekler population might be the consequence, at least in part, of the genetic impact of people of German origin, who settled in Transylvania from the 12th century onwards (Transylvanian Saxons)(Makkai, 1990; Kristó, 2002).

Haplogroups J, E and G have been associated with the contribution of Neolithic farmers to the European gene pool (Semino et al., 2000a; Underhill et al., 2000). However, the phylogeographic analysis of haplogroups E and J revealed that multiple migratory events have spread these lineages during and after the Neolithic (Cruciani et al., 2004; Di Giacomo et al., 2004; Semino et al., 2004).

In the present study haplogroup J was unexpectedly common in the Hungarian‐speaking populations (Hungarians: 16%, Szeklers: 21.6%). Haplogroup J, (defined by a 12f2 polymorphism –which is equivalent to M304‐) (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004), is considered to have originated in the Middle East (Semino et al., 2004). The overall occurrence of the haplogroup displays an area of high frequencies (>20%) stretching from the Middle East to the central Mediterranean (Di Giacomo et al., 2004), whereas according to recent publications (Di Giacomo et al., 2004 and references therein) this haplogroup doesn't have a strong signature in the peoples of the northern Balkans and central Europe.

Hg J has two main clades; J1‐M267 and J2‐M172 (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004). J1‐M267 has its highest frequency in the Middle East, North Africa and Ethiopia and its lowest in Europe (Semino et al., 2004). It has been suggested that Hg J1‐M267 was spread by two temporally distinct migratory episodes, the most recent one probably associated with the diffusion of Arab people, mainly from the 7th century AD (Nebel et al., 2002; Semino et al., 2004). The J1‐M267 Y‐chromosomal lineage is notably frequent in Szeklers (10.3%; a value far above the range for other central and eastern European populations (Semino et al., 2000a, 2004; Di Giacomo et al., 2004), while its frequency in Hungarians (3.0%) is unremarkable.

Haplogroup J2‐M172 is more prevalent in Europe than the J1 clade. Among its subclades J2e‐M12 and J2f‐M67 and their derivatives are found in Europe and in Asia (Semino et al., 2004). J2e‐M12 is almost totally represented by its sublineage, J2e1‐M102, which shows its maximum frequency in the southern Balkans and north‐central Italy; it may have diffused from the former (Semino et al., 2004). J2f*‐M67 is also a widespread clade which is most frequent in the Caucasus, whereas its derivative J2f1‐M92 indicates affinity between Anatolia and southern Italy and is predominantly found in the northern Mediterranean from Turkey westward (Di Giacomo et al., 2004; Semino et al., 2004). J2f*‐M67 and J2f1‐M92 could have arrived in Europe from Anatolia across the Bosporus, as well as by seafaring Neolithic populations who may have reached southern Italy. The J2‐M172* lineage displays a decreasing frequency gradient from the Near East toward western Europe. It has been proposed that the distribution of the J2‐M172 (xM12) lineage is consistent with its spread to Europe through the Levantine corridor (Semino et al., 2004). Although J2‐M172* encompasses most of the M172 Y‐chromosomes in continental Europe and India, their degree of affinity and shared history remain uncertain. Semino et al. (2004) and Di Giacomo et al. (2004) point to Turkey and the Aegean as a relevant source for the J diversity observed throughout Europe.

Among these J2‐M172 subclades, J2e1‐M102 is more frequent in Szeklers (7.2%) than in Hungarians (4.0%), while the undifferentiated J2‐M172* Y chromosomes are slightly more common in Hungarian population (8% vs. 3.1%). Both J2f*‐M67 and J2f1‐M92 lineages were detected in our study in one single individual, in each population.

The overall frequency of J2‐M172 in the two populations (Hungarian: 13%; Szekler: 11.3%) is in the same order of magnitude as reported for Czechs and Slovaks (Semino et al., 2000a), Romanians, Bulgarians (Di Giacomo et al. 2004) and Ukrainians (Semino et al. 2004).

The elevated overall frequency of haplogroup J in the Szekler samples (21.6%) might be partially attributed to genetic drift, since Szeklers lived in relative isolation as a socially exclusive population in the mountains of Transylvania from the Middle Ages until the 19th century (Makkai 1990; Kristó 2002). But that cannot explain the even higher frequency in Hungarians. On the other hand, the elevated frequency of J in both groups could also be due to a range of historical events.

One is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th century AD; refugees from the Balkan area fled to Hungarian territory (Pálffy 2000).

Another is in accordance with our mtDNA analysis of ancient Hungarians (Tömöry et al. 2007); populations who lived in close contact with the early Magyars during their migration from the Ural region to the Carpathian Basin left substantial imprints in their gene pool. In this context, one should note that statistical analysis of mtDNA variation of ancient Hungarian and modern Eurasian populations shows that the early Magyars were genetically close not only to some populations from Central Asia and Europe, but also to some of the Near‐East populations – Syrian, Palestinian, Turkish – where Y chromosome haplogroup J is present with high frequency (Semino et al. 2000a, 2004; Cinnioğlu et al. 2004; Di Giacomo et al. 2004; Flores et al. 2005).

However, the possibility that the J cluster was present in the ancient Hungarian population and may have left detectable traces in the paternal gene pool of modern Hungarian and Szekler males deserves future study. At this stage of analysis other explanations, such as genetic drift or more recent gene flow are plausible.

There is a discrepancy between the frequencies of haplogroup J reported here and the results of some previous studies (Rosser et al. 2000; Semino et al. 2000a, 2000b, 2004), in which it was found to be rare (2–3%) in modern Hungarian‐speaking populations; (but conversely, in a Hungarian sample studied by Rootsi et al. (2000) it was detected at a level of 14%). The possible reason for this discrepancy might lie in differential sampling. Hungarian samples included in this paper were collected from different parts of Hungary, but the most represented area was the Great Hungarian Plain (90 out of 100 individuals were born there). Hungarian samples studied by Semino et al. (2000a), however, originated from subjects from Budapest and other northern regions in Hungary. The most frequently represented were Palócs (Semino personal communication), an ethnic minority in Hungary, from a border region of the northern Carpathian Basin, neighbours of the Slavs in the higher mountains, with a distinctive Hungarian dialect (Kósa 1998; Semino et al. 2000b).

The MDS plot (Figure 5) based on Fst values of population data from Semino et al. (2000a) and those of this study, shows that the Hungarian and Szekler populations are genetically closely related, and close also to other populations from Central Europe and the Balkans. However, the second dimension clearly separates our samples from those Hungarians studied by Semino et al. (2000a). The latter group has closer genetic relationships with Polish and Ukrainian populations. A possible explanation might be that in the 19th century extensive admixture occurred between inhabitants of northern parts of Hungary and those of neighbouring northern regions (Kósa 1998). This might also be responsible for the large proportion, 60%, of R1a1‐M17 Y chromosomes reported (Semino et al., 2000a).

Haplogroup E3b‐M35 occurs at 10% frequency in Hungarians and 9.2% in Szeklers with E3b1‐M78 chromosomes accounting for almost all representatives (∼90%). Hg E is mainly African, but its clade E3b‐M35 has also been observed in Europe, where it is believed to have arrived during and after Neolithic. Both E3b‐M35 and its derivative (E3b1‐M78) probably originated in eastern Africa (Semino et al. 2004; Cruciani et al. 2004). Hg E3b1‐M78 has been observed over a wide area, including eastern and northern Africa, the Near East and Europe, where it represents by far the most common E3b subhaplogroup (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004). This lineage shows its highest frequency in southern and southeastern Europe and declining frequencies toward western, central and eastern Europe (Peričić et al. 2005). The frequencies of E3b1‐M78 in our samples (Hungarian: 9%; Szekler: 8.2%) are within the range of central and eastern European values (Peričić et al. 2005). According to Cruciani et al. (2004) the main contributor to the present distribution of E3b lineages in Europe was an expansion from the Balkans to western and southern‐central Europe (∼7.8 KYA). Peričić et al. (2005) suggested that one of the major routes for E3b1‐M78 expansion was the Vardar‐Morava‐Danube river system leading from south and southeastern to continental Europe.

[Tommie]

And 90% romanian nationalist pass as native turkish, middle eastern.
You need your eyes checked if you think they pass as Turkish and Middle Eastern.



Please stop spreading hatred against Hungarians, these people are Székelys, and many Székelys came from Hungary and from Székelyland for this event. They are wearing székely folk costumes.
Hatred? What's wrong with saying that they're not blonde, blue eyed for the most part? Been familiar with Hungarians, I can definitely say that differences are hugely exaggerated, and not only between Romanians and Hungarians, but between many European populations, too. There are many light Hungarians, but there are also darker ones than many Romanians. BTW, this so called "hatred" is nothing compared to the hatred Romanians receive from Hungarians.

[Turul Karom]

Okay the complete source:

Y Chromosome Variation in Modern Hungarian and Szekler Populations

In addition, 21 Y‐chromosomal polymorphic markers of the two Hungarian‐speaking populations were analysed (Figure 4). The Y‐haplogroups observed in these two Hungarian ethnic groups are similar to those found among many other Europeans (Semino et al., 2000a).

Hg R1a1‐M17 is the most frequent Y chromosome clade in the modern Hungarian population (30%) and encompasses 18.6% of the Szekler Y‐chromosomal gene pool. The age of M17 has been estimated at 15 kilo years ago (KYA). It is likely that it arose in the Ukrainian glacial refuge, where this mutation is found with high frequency (>50%) (Semino et al., 2000a; Wells et al., 2001). This Hg is frequent in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and Northwest India (Semino et al., 2000a; Wells et al., 2001; Passarino et al., 2001; Kivisild et al., 2003).

The current distribution of R1a1‐M17 in Europe shows an increasing west‐east frequency and variance gradients with peaks among Finno‐Ugric and Slavic speakers (Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein).

The R1a1‐M17 frequency in Hungarians (30%) and Szeklers (18.6%) is comparable to that in their neighbours (e.g. Czechs and Slovaks, mainland Croatians, Bosnians, Romanians, Serbians) and some other Uralic‐speaking populations (e.g. Estonian, Komis, Mordvin) (Tambets et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein). The expansion of this haplogroup might have occurred at least three major episodes of gene flow: early post‐LGM recolonization of Europe from the refugial area of present‐day Ukraine (Semino et al., 2000a), migrations from the northern Pontic steppe between 3000 and 1000 BC and the historically attested Slavic migration from the 5th to 7th centuries AD (Peričić et al., 2005; Brather, 2001; Fusek, 2004).

Hg R1b‐M269, in contrast to R1a1‐M17, has its highest frequency in western Europe and decreases in eastern and southern Europe; the R1b variance shows multiple peaks in West Europe and Asia Minor (Semino et al., 2000a; Peričić et al., 2005). These spatial patterns possibly reflect the re‐peopling of Europe from Iberia and Asia Minor during the Late Upper Paleolithic and Holocene (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004).

Similar frequencies of R1b as in the Hungarian speakers are found in some Slavic populations (mainland Croatians, Slovenians, Poles, Bulgarians); and in some Uralic‐speakers (Komis, Khanties, Mordvin) as well as in Romanian and Turkish populations (Tambets et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005 and references therein).

The presence of central‐Asian haplogroup P*(xM173) in Szeklers is unusual for a European population, since it is almost absent in continental Europe (Wells et al., 2001) and presumably reflects some Asian contribution, before or after reaching Transylvania.

Hg I‐M170 is the only Y‐chromosome haplogroup that is confined almost exclusively to the European continent (Semino et al., 2000a; Rootsi et al., 2004). Its virtual absence elsewhere, including the Near East, suggests that the defining mutation arose in Europe, most probably before the LGM (Semino et al., 2000a). Semino et al. (2000a) and Barać et al. (2003) proposed that the northern Balkans could have been a possible LGM refugium and a reservoir of M170. Rootsi et al. (2004) estimated that its major subclades, I1a, I1b and I1c all diverged from I* in the Late Upper Paleolithic/Mesolithic Period. Subclade I1a‐M253 accounts for most of Hg I (88–100%) in Scandinavia, with a rapidly decreasing frequency toward both the East European Plain and the Atlantic fringe, but microsatellite diversity reveals that the Franco‐Cantabrian refugial area could have been the source of the early spread of both I1a and the less common I1c (Rootsi et al., 2004).

Hg I1b‐P37 is the most frequent haplogroup I clade in Eastern Europe and the Balkans (Rootsi et al., 2004). According to Peričić et al. (2005) the I1b*(xM26) lineages might have expanded from southeastern Europe to central, eastern and southern Europe, presumably not earlier than the Younger Dryas to Holocene transition and not later than the early Neolithic. In central and eastern Europe I1a and I1b show overlapping frequency gradients (Rootsi et al., 2004).

Haplogroup I was detected with almost equal frequency in the two modern populations: 24% in Hungarians and 21.7% in Szeklers. However, two of its major subclades‐ I1a‐M253 and I1b*(xM26) – show an opposite occurrence in the two ethnic groups, 8% and 13%, respectively, in Hungarians, and 16.5% and 5.2% in Szeklers. These are within the range of normal central and eastern European values (Rootsi et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005). The elevated frequency of Hg I1a together with higher frequency of R1b‐M269 in Szekler population might be the consequence, at least in part, of the genetic impact of people of German origin, who settled in Transylvania from the 12th century onwards (Transylvanian Saxons)(Makkai, 1990; Kristó, 2002).

Haplogroups J, E and G have been associated with the contribution of Neolithic farmers to the European gene pool (Semino et al., 2000a; Underhill et al., 2000). However, the phylogeographic analysis of haplogroups E and J revealed that multiple migratory events have spread these lineages during and after the Neolithic (Cruciani et al., 2004; Di Giacomo et al., 2004; Semino et al., 2004).

In the present study haplogroup J was unexpectedly common in the Hungarian‐speaking populations (Hungarians: 16%, Szeklers: 21.6%). Haplogroup J, (defined by a 12f2 polymorphism –which is equivalent to M304‐) (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004), is considered to have originated in the Middle East (Semino et al., 2004). The overall occurrence of the haplogroup displays an area of high frequencies (>20%) stretching from the Middle East to the central Mediterranean (Di Giacomo et al., 2004), whereas according to recent publications (Di Giacomo et al., 2004 and references therein) this haplogroup doesn't have a strong signature in the peoples of the northern Balkans and central Europe.

Hg J has two main clades; J1‐M267 and J2‐M172 (Cinnioğlu et al., 2004). J1‐M267 has its highest frequency in the Middle East, North Africa and Ethiopia and its lowest in Europe (Semino et al., 2004). It has been suggested that Hg J1‐M267 was spread by two temporally distinct migratory episodes, the most recent one probably associated with the diffusion of Arab people, mainly from the 7th century AD (Nebel et al., 2002; Semino et al., 2004). The J1‐M267 Y‐chromosomal lineage is notably frequent in Szeklers (10.3%; a value far above the range for other central and eastern European populations (Semino et al., 2000a, 2004; Di Giacomo et al., 2004), while its frequency in Hungarians (3.0%) is unremarkable.

Haplogroup J2‐M172 is more prevalent in Europe than the J1 clade. Among its subclades J2e‐M12 and J2f‐M67 and their derivatives are found in Europe and in Asia (Semino et al., 2004). J2e‐M12 is almost totally represented by its sublineage, J2e1‐M102, which shows its maximum frequency in the southern Balkans and north‐central Italy; it may have diffused from the former (Semino et al., 2004). J2f*‐M67 is also a widespread clade which is most frequent in the Caucasus, whereas its derivative J2f1‐M92 indicates affinity between Anatolia and southern Italy and is predominantly found in the northern Mediterranean from Turkey westward (Di Giacomo et al., 2004; Semino et al., 2004). J2f*‐M67 and J2f1‐M92 could have arrived in Europe from Anatolia across the Bosporus, as well as by seafaring Neolithic populations who may have reached southern Italy. The J2‐M172* lineage displays a decreasing frequency gradient from the Near East toward western Europe. It has been proposed that the distribution of the J2‐M172 (xM12) lineage is consistent with its spread to Europe through the Levantine corridor (Semino et al., 2004). Although J2‐M172* encompasses most of the M172 Y‐chromosomes in continental Europe and India, their degree of affinity and shared history remain uncertain. Semino et al. (2004) and Di Giacomo et al. (2004) point to Turkey and the Aegean as a relevant source for the J diversity observed throughout Europe.

Among these J2‐M172 subclades, J2e1‐M102 is more frequent in Szeklers (7.2%) than in Hungarians (4.0%), while the undifferentiated J2‐M172* Y chromosomes are slightly more common in Hungarian population (8% vs. 3.1%). Both J2f*‐M67 and J2f1‐M92 lineages were detected in our study in one single individual, in each population.

The overall frequency of J2‐M172 in the two populations (Hungarian: 13%; Szekler: 11.3%) is in the same order of magnitude as reported for Czechs and Slovaks (Semino et al., 2000a), Romanians, Bulgarians (Di Giacomo et al. 2004) and Ukrainians (Semino et al. 2004).

The elevated overall frequency of haplogroup J in the Szekler samples (21.6%) might be partially attributed to genetic drift, since Szeklers lived in relative isolation as a socially exclusive population in the mountains of Transylvania from the Middle Ages until the 19th century (Makkai 1990; Kristó 2002). But that cannot explain the even higher frequency in Hungarians. On the other hand, the elevated frequency of J in both groups could also be due to a range of historical events.

One is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th century AD; refugees from the Balkan area fled to Hungarian territory (Pálffy 2000).

Another is in accordance with our mtDNA analysis of ancient Hungarians (Tömöry et al. 2007); populations who lived in close contact with the early Magyars during their migration from the Ural region to the Carpathian Basin left substantial imprints in their gene pool. In this context, one should note that statistical analysis of mtDNA variation of ancient Hungarian and modern Eurasian populations shows that the early Magyars were genetically close not only to some populations from Central Asia and Europe, but also to some of the Near‐East populations – Syrian, Palestinian, Turkish – where Y chromosome haplogroup J is present with high frequency (Semino et al. 2000a, 2004; Cinnioğlu et al. 2004; Di Giacomo et al. 2004; Flores et al. 2005).

However, the possibility that the J cluster was present in the ancient Hungarian population and may have left detectable traces in the paternal gene pool of modern Hungarian and Szekler males deserves future study. At this stage of analysis other explanations, such as genetic drift or more recent gene flow are plausible.

There is a discrepancy between the frequencies of haplogroup J reported here and the results of some previous studies (Rosser et al. 2000; Semino et al. 2000a, 2000b, 2004), in which it was found to be rare (2–3%) in modern Hungarian‐speaking populations; (but conversely, in a Hungarian sample studied by Rootsi et al. (2000) it was detected at a level of 14%). The possible reason for this discrepancy might lie in differential sampling. Hungarian samples included in this paper were collected from different parts of Hungary, but the most represented area was the Great Hungarian Plain (90 out of 100 individuals were born there). Hungarian samples studied by Semino et al. (2000a), however, originated from subjects from Budapest and other northern regions in Hungary. The most frequently represented were Palócs (Semino personal communication), an ethnic minority in Hungary, from a border region of the northern Carpathian Basin, neighbours of the Slavs in the higher mountains, with a distinctive Hungarian dialect (Kósa 1998; Semino et al. 2000b).

The MDS plot (Figure 5) based on Fst values of population data from Semino et al. (2000a) and those of this study, shows that the Hungarian and Szekler populations are genetically closely related, and close also to other populations from Central Europe and the Balkans. However, the second dimension clearly separates our samples from those Hungarians studied by Semino et al. (2000a). The latter group has closer genetic relationships with Polish and Ukrainian populations. A possible explanation might be that in the 19th century extensive admixture occurred between inhabitants of northern parts of Hungary and those of neighbouring northern regions (Kósa 1998). This might also be responsible for the large proportion, 60%, of R1a1‐M17 Y chromosomes reported (Semino et al., 2000a).

Haplogroup E3b‐M35 occurs at 10% frequency in Hungarians and 9.2% in Szeklers with E3b1‐M78 chromosomes accounting for almost all representatives (∼90%). Hg E is mainly African, but its clade E3b‐M35 has also been observed in Europe, where it is believed to have arrived during and after Neolithic. Both E3b‐M35 and its derivative (E3b1‐M78) probably originated in eastern Africa (Semino et al. 2004; Cruciani et al. 2004). Hg E3b1‐M78 has been observed over a wide area, including eastern and northern Africa, the Near East and Europe, where it represents by far the most common E3b subhaplogroup (Cruciani et al. 2004; Semino et al. 2004). This lineage shows its highest frequency in southern and southeastern Europe and declining frequencies toward western, central and eastern Europe (Peričić et al. 2005). The frequencies of E3b1‐M78 in our samples (Hungarian: 9%; Szekler: 8.2%) are within the range of central and eastern European values (Peričić et al. 2005). According to Cruciani et al. (2004) the main contributor to the present distribution of E3b lineages in Europe was an expansion from the Balkans to western and southern‐central Europe (∼7.8 KYA). Peričić et al. (2005) suggested that one of the major routes for E3b1‐M78 expansion was the Vardar‐Morava‐Danube river system leading from south and southeastern to continental Europe.

I saw the links as well. The issue is when anyone uses wikipedia's quotes and often wikipedia's sources lead to blank pages or opinion blogs.

It was interesting to read. The pictures were not quoting you.

[Blondie]

You need your eyes checked if you think they pass as Turkish and Middle Eastern.



Hatred? What's wrong with saying that they're not blonde, blue eyed for the most part? Been familiar with Hungarians, I can definitely say that differences are hugely exaggerated, and not only between Romanians and Hungarians, but between most European populations, too. There are many light Hungarians, but there are also darker ones than many Romanians. BTW, this so called "hatred" is nothing compared to the hatred Romanians receive from Hungarians.

I have never said that most of hungarians are blonde, blue eyed, but according to this troll hungarians are darker than balkanites, romanians are north european looking and székelys are magyarized romanians, this autism is our problem.

[IncelSlayer]

I've been to their territory more times than everyone from this thread combined and I confirm they look not like romanians, but like bulgarians from the turkic part of Bulgaria

90%+ dark haired,eyed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uVierI8NR8

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I've been to their territory more times than everyone from this thread combined and I confirm they look not like romanians, but like bulgarians from the turkic part of Bulgaria

90%+ dark haired,eyed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uVierI8NR8

Stears looks Bulgarian to you ? xD

[IncelSlayer]

Stears looks Bulgarian to you ? xD

Stears is half transdanubian hungarian(german), his mother's genes saved him from looking like a balkanite sheeprd

[Blondie]

I've been to their territory more times than everyone from this thread combined and I confirm they look not like romanians, but like bulgarians from the turkic part of Bulgaria

90%+ dark haired,eyed


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uVierI8NR8

I was in same situation when i have been in Romania, i thought it's Turkey, Syria or something. I have never seen such weird-looking dark peoples like there.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Stears is half transdanubian hungarian(german), his mother's genes saved him from looking like a balkanite sheeprd

lmao

[Adam Janossy]

You need your eyes checked if you think they pass as Turkish and Middle Eastern.



Hatred? What's wrong with saying that they're not blonde, blue eyed for the most part? Been familiar with Hungarians, I can definitely say that differences are hugely exaggerated, and not only between Romanians and Hungarians, but between most European populations, too. There are many light Hungarians, but there are also darker ones than many Romanians. BTW, this so called "hatred" is nothing compared to the hatred Romanians receive from Hungarians.

He is spreading hatred because he said those people are not Székely, which is a lie.

[Adam Janossy]

Stears is half transdanubian hungarian(german), his mother's genes saved him from looking like a balkanite sheeprd

Half of Stear's paternal family has red or blond hair.

[IncelSlayer]

Half of Stear's paternal family has red or blond hair.

Who cares,genes for pigmentation are like 0.00000000001 from ones genome, for example I've seen blue eyed and light blonde haired gypsies in bus stations begging.

[Adam Janossy]

Who cares,genes for pigmentation are like 0.00000000001 from ones genome, for example I've seen blue eyed and light blonde haired gypsies in bus stations begging.

But their and Székely facial features are different from Romanian in general.

[Pribislav]

Stears is half transdanubian hungarian(german), his mother's genes saved him from looking like a balkanite sheeprd

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Blondie]

But their and Székely facial features are different from Romanian in general.

Stears is much whiter than majority of romanians. Just like Incel he is more northern shifted because of his hungarian genetic.

[Pribislav]

Stears is much whiter than majority of romanians. Just like Incel he is more northern shifted because of his hungarian genetic.

Incel is more northern shifted than Stears. Incel is on the level with Western Ukrainians and Rusyns, due to recent East Slavic ancestors of course.

[Blondie]

Incel is more northern shifted than Stears. Incel is on the level with Western Ukrainians and Rusyns, due to recent East Slavic ancestors of course.

According to him he has hungarian roots not ukrainian, just look his genetic.

[Pribislav]

He according to him he has hungarian roots not ukrainian, just look his genetic.

If he rumanized full rumanized Magyar he would be more southern. Szekelys are more southern and eastern than Magyars from Hungary. Incel is even more northern ploting than average Magyrs from Hungary.

[Blondie]

If he rumanized full rumanized Magyar he would be more southern. Szekelys are more southern and eastern than Magyars from Hungary. Incel is even more northern ploting than average Magyrs from Hungary.

I always knew that his hungarian genetic is fake. By the way you are more northern shifted than average serbian, so by your logic you cannot be genetically serb.

[Carpatz]

If he rumanized full rumanized Magyar he would be more southern. Szekelys are more southern and eastern than Magyars from Hungary. Incel is even more northern ploting than average Magyrs from Hungary.

You're right, he must be mixed with Banija Serbs :picard2:

[Adam Janossy]

Stear's mother doesn't look German at all, she looks slavic. She is 3/4 hungarian 1/4 Croat, which is usual in Southern Transdanubia

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You're right, he must be mixed with Banija Serbs :picard2:

:lol:

[Pribislav]

I always knew that his hungarian genetic is fake. By the way you are more northern shifted than average serbian, so by your logic you cannot be genetically serb.

Incel is quite more northern than Szekelys.

He only might be rumanized Hungarian from Transdanubia, and that is not likely. Also, his y dna is not typical for Hungarians.

[Pribislav]

You're right, he must be mixed with Banija Serbs :picard2:

No, more like mixed with Serbs from Lusatia.

[Blondie]

Incel is quite more northern than Szekelys.

He only might be rumanized Hungarian from Transdanubia, and that is not likely. Also, his y dna is not typical for Hungarians.

I linked many blonde szekely, if he is more northern shifted than he is scandinav or something :D
By the way Hungary, Romania and this regio is very mixed, his haplo is also not slavic,but his genetic result showed his clearly hungarian origin, or do you think it's fake?

[Pribislav]

...

[Pribislav]

I linked many blonde szekely, if he is more northern shifted than he is scandinav or something :D
By the way Hungary, Romania and this regio is very mixed, his haplo is also not slavic,but his genetic result showed his clearly hungarian origin, or do you think it's fake?

K12b Dodecad.

IncelSlayer
1 North_European 48.35
2 Atlantic_Med 26.55
3 Caucasus 16.51
4 Southwest_Asian 3.89
5 Northwest_African 2.07
6 East_Asian 1.16
7 Gedrosia 1.08
8 Siberian 0.39

Hungarian from Vojvodina (probably Szekely)
1 North_European 41.77
2 Atlantic_Med 27.15
3 Caucasus 17.99
4 Southwest_Asian 4.14
5 Gedrosia 3.08
6 East_Asian 2.87
7 Siberian 2.23
8 Northwest_African 0.56
9 Southeast_Asian 0.2

I am lazy to put other calculators...

[Carpatz]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?282929-Szekely-23andme-results

[Adam Janossy]

K12b Dodecad.

IncelSlayer
1 North_European 48.35
2 Atlantic_Med 26.55
3 Caucasus 16.51
4 Southwest_Asian 3.89
5 Northwest_African 2.07
6 East_Asian 1.16
7 Gedrosia 1.08
8 Siberian 0.39

Hungarian from Vojvodina (probably Szekely)
1 North_European 41.77
2 Atlantic_Med 27.15
3 Caucasus 17.99
4 Southwest_Asian 4.14
5 Gedrosia 3.08
6 East_Asian 2.87
7 Siberian 2.23
8 Northwest_African 0.56
9 Southeast_Asian 0.2

I am lazy to put other calculators...

Yes this second sample looks like Székely.

[Pribislav]

Yes this second sample looks like Székely.

Part of Vojvodinian Hungarians are Szekelys, especially in Banat.

Incel slayer got more North Euro than any Hungarian here what I have seen. There is no Hungarian here with more than 45.5% North Euro on Dodecad.

[Blondie]

Part of Vojvodinian Hungarians are Szekelys, especially in Banat.

Incel slayer got more North Euro than any Hungarian here what I have seen. There is no Hungarian here with more than 45.5% North Euro on Dodecad.

Of course you know the genetic of every single 14 million hungarian people :D I have seen full scandinav looking hungarians, or full mediterraneans or asian looking, this region is very diverse. Someone cannot be hungarian because their genetic is a little bit atypical? What an idiot logic, but i bet you are the purest serb of all time because as we know serbs are blonde blue eyed... :D

[Mr.G]

K12b Dodecad.

IncelSlayer
1 North_European 48.35
2 Atlantic_Med 26.55
3 Caucasus 16.51
4 Southwest_Asian 3.89
5 Northwest_African 2.07
6 East_Asian 1.16
7 Gedrosia 1.08
8 Siberian 0.39

Hungarian from Vojvodina (probably Szekely)
1 North_European 41.77
2 Atlantic_Med 27.15
3 Caucasus 17.99
4 Southwest_Asian 4.14
5 Gedrosia 3.08
6 East_Asian 2.87
7 Siberian 2.23
8 Northwest_African 0.56
9 Southeast_Asian 0.2

I am lazy to put other calculators...

Dodecad K12b
Me (half Hungarian)
# Population Percent
1 North_European 41.27
2 Atlantic_Med 33.14
3 Caucasus 11.67
4 Gedrosia 8.64
5 Southwest_Asian 2.92
6 South_Asian 1.41
7 Siberian 0.96

Mother (Mostly German)
# Population Percent
1 North_European 41.77
2 Atlantic_Med 37.17
3 Caucasus 10.55
4 Gedrosia 8.11
5 Southwest_Asian 1.5
6 Siberian 0.43
7 South_Asian 0.38
8 East_African 0.08

Dad (Hungarian) phased kit
1 North_European 37.55
2 Atlantic_Med 27.43
3 Caucasus 12
4 Gedrosia 9.47
5 Southwest_Asian 4.48
6 South_Asian 2.53
7 East_African 2.21
8 Siberian 1.62
9 Sub_Saharan 1.51
10 East_Asian 0.66
11 Southeast_Asian 0.54

[Carpatz]

Of course you know the genetic of every single 14 million hungarian people :D I have seen full scandinav looking hungarians, or full mediterraneans or asian looking, this region is very diverse. Someone cannot be hungarian because their genetic is a little bit atypical? What an idiot logic, but i bet you are the purest serb of all time because as we know serbs are blonde blue eyed... :D

average Serbs according to Pribislav


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xn5p6fVzWI

[Pribislav]

average Serbs according to Pribislav


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xn5p6fVzWI

Nothing like Serbs. They looks too eastern for Serbs.

[IncelSlayer]

Incel is more northern shifted than Stears. Incel is on the level with Western Ukrainians and Rusyns, due to recent East Slavic ancestors of course.

LOL I don't have any eastern slavic ancestors as proven by 23andme, in fact I don't have any slavic admixture at all, all this is in your head


But their and Székely facial features are different from Romanian in general.

No they don't, you're delusional, you need to stop looking at szekelys as something special, almost all are just politically magyarised romanians and to a lower extent gypsies,saxons,jews today.

[Adam Janossy]

LOL I don't have any eastern slavic ancestors as proven by 23andme, in fact I don't have any slavic admixture at all, all this is in your head



No they don't, you're delusional, you need to stop looking at szekelys as something special, almost all are just politically magyarised romanians and to a lower extent gypsies,saxons,jews today.


Székelys have nothing to do with Romanians, since their identity is much older than "Romanians" and they don't look alike. Your mother is Slovak, your genetics shows that.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Székelys have nothing to do with Romanians, since their identity is much older than "Romanians" and they don't look alike. Your mother is Slovak, your genetics shows that.

Lmao, that explains this dude plotting. He is my DNA cousin also.

[IncelSlayer]

Your mother is Slovak, your genetics shows that.

HAHAHAHAHA again with this lie invented by Ilma?

https://images3.imgbox.com/78/e2/adln6eXy_o.gif

Okay miss 135 IQ riddle me this, if I am half slovak then how come 23andme can't detect any slovak in me?Were are my slovak relatives on 23andme/gedmatch etc?You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed

[Tommie]

Lmao, that explains this dude plotting. He is my DNA cousin also.
It's only Jana who insists his mother is Slovak. IncelSlayer himself said that she's not, I don't see why he would lie about that.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It's only Jana who insists his mother is Slovak. IncelSlayer himself said that she's not, I don't see why he would like about that.

Whatever he is, he is Slavic as fuck. xD

https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Screen-Shot-2018-11-12-at-3.14.54-PM.png

[Tommie]

Some people act like Székelys look like extraterrestrials compared to Romanians or something :rolleyes: They are mainly Magyarized Romanians, after all.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Some people act like Székelys look like extraterrestrials compared to Romanians or something :rolleyes: They are mainly Magyarized Romanians, after all.

Do you have actual proof or is it just your nationalistic narrative ? Looks like they have extremely unique customs and are mentioned as group since middle ages, never as Romanians :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

Scattered communities of light-armored Székely warriors lived in the Kingdom of Hungary, especially along the western frontier till the 14th century. Their migration to Transylvania began in the 11th or 12th century. They first settled in southern Transylvania, but they moved to present-day Székely Land after the arrival of the Transylvanian Saxons in the late 12th century. They were subjected to a royal official, the Count of the Székelys, from the 1220s. Their military role enabled them to preserve their privileged status. They did not pay tax and the kings of Hungary could not grant landed property in Székely Land. Their basic administrative units, known as seats from the 14th century, were headed by elected lieutenants and seat judges. They formed one of the "Three Nations of Transylvania" after a "brotherly union" was formed by the noblemen, Székelys and Saxons against the rebellious Transylvanian peasants in 1437.

[Carpatz]

Do you have actual proof or is it just your nationalistic narrative ? Looks like they have extremely unique customs and are mentioned as group since middle ages, never as Romanians :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

Scattered communities of light-armored Székely warriors lived in the Kingdom of Hungary, especially along the western frontier till the 14th century. Their migration to Transylvania began in the 11th or 12th century. They first settled in southern Transylvania, but they moved to present-day Székely Land after the arrival of the Transylvanian Saxons in the late 12th century. They were subjected to a royal official, the Count of the Székelys, from the 1220s. Their military role enabled them to preserve their privileged status. They did not pay tax and the kings of Hungary could not grant landed property in Székely Land. Their basic administrative units, known as seats from the 14th century, were headed by elected lieutenants and seat judges. They formed one of the "Three Nations of Transylvania" after a "brotherly union" was formed by the noblemen, Székelys and Saxons against the rebellious Transylvanian peasants in 1437.

Fact is, they are identical genetically to Transylvanian Romanians, besides some extra Saxon input. They are as similar to their original Turkic founder population as we Romanians are to ancient Romans.

I have no doubt that Stears tested on 23andme, and refused to make his results public because of the elevated Balkan in his results. His mother is Transdanubian, which are the most northwest plotting Hungarians, yet he plots very southeast from regular Hungarians because of his Szekely father.

[Bosniensis]

I've heard for Szekelys, but know less about them then Martians.

[IncelSlayer]

Fact is, they are identical genetically to Transylvanian Romanians, besides some extra Saxon input. They are as similar to their original Turkic founder population as we Romanians are to ancient Romans.

I have no doubt that Stears tested on 23andme

A bad choice indeed, he should've spent that money bleaching his teeth

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Fact is, they are identical genetically to Transylvanian Romanians, besides some extra Saxon input. They are as similar to their original Turkic founder population as we Romanians are to ancient Romans.

I have no doubt that Stears tested on 23andme, and refused to make his results public because of the elevated Balkan in his results. His mother is a Transdanubian, the most northwest plotting Hungarians, yet he plots very southeast from regular Hungarians because of his Szekely father.

Dude, they are similiar because they probably mixed with Romanians trough centuries. It doesn't mean they are Romanians ffs.

Krajina Serbs are nearly identical to Croats living in that region but I would not call them serbified Croats. Similarity comes probably from mixing within two communities.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Not an expert on Szekely minorities by any means but on a individual basis they seem interchangeable between both Hungarians and Romanians.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Mates, do you think Stears old man looks more Magyar or Romanian ?

[Mr.G]

Fact is, they are identical genetically to Transylvanian Romanians, besides some extra Saxon input. They are as similar to their original Turkic founder population as we Romanians are to ancient Romans.

I have no doubt that Stears tested on 23andme, and refused to make his results public because of the elevated Balkan in his results. His mother is Transdanubian, which are the most northwest plotting Hungarians, yet he plots very southeast from regular Hungarians because of his Szekely father.

I have only seen a handful 23andMe reports, so as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Székelys autosomal averages. Second, the assumption that Stears' mother is NW shifted because she comes from Transdanubia may be a false premise. I believe many Hungarians in the region are likely to be "average" i.e. Gedmatch Hungarians. Obviously there are many pockets of people with German ancestry there and they will be NW shifted. Just playing devils advocate here, offering an alternative point of view.

[Mr.G]

Mates, do you think Stears old man looks more Magyar or Romanian ?

He is somebody that fits as both imo.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I have only seen a handful 23andMe reports, so as far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Székelys autosomal averages. Second, the assumption that Stears' mother is NW shifted because she comes from Transdanubia may be a false premise. I believe many Hungarians in the region are likely to be "average" i.e. Gedmatch Hungarians. Obviously there are many pockets of people with German ancestry there and they will be NW shifted. Just playing devils advocate here, offering an alternative point of view.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278317-Is-Stears-Father-Pamirid-influenced&p=5809991&viewfull=1#post5809991

Kaposvár is a city in the southwestern part of Hungary, south from the Lake Balaton.

it's pretty close to Croatia and on top on that she has some Croatian blood so idk why people expect Stears mother to plot like German. Maybe I'm wrong tho

[Mr.G]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?278317-Is-Stears-Father-Pamirid-influenced&p=5809991&viewfull=1#post5809991

Kaposvár is a city in the southwestern part of Hungary, south from the Lake Balaton.

it's pretty close to Croatia and on top on that she has some Croatian blood so idk why people expect Stears mother to plot like German. Maybe I'm wrong tho

I agree with you.

[Tommie]

Fact is, they are identical genetically to Transylvanian Romanians, besides some extra Saxon input. They are as similar to their original Turkic founder population as we Romanians are to ancient Romans.

I have no doubt that Stears tested on 23andme, and refused to make his results public because of the elevated Balkan in his results. His mother is Transdanubian, which are the most northwest plotting Hungarians, yet he plots very southeast from regular Hungarians because of his Szekely father.
Not to mention the numerous archeological evidences found in where today's Székelyland lies, these attest the fact that the area has always been populated and wasn't empty before the Magyars arrived.


Some examples
https://www.academia.edu/28818043/Castrul_roman_de_la_Baraolt_Contribu%C8%9Bii_la_re pertoriul_arheologic_al_jude%C8%9Bului_Covasna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_fortress_of_Covasna
https://web.archive.org/web/20140514164919/http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp?lang=EN&descript=bretcu-bretcu-covasna-canabele-castrului-de-la-bretcu-cod-sit-ran-64103.03
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra_of_Reci

[Adam Janossy]

Some people act like Székelys look like extraterrestrials compared to Romanians or something :rolleyes: They are mainly Magyarized Romanians, after all.

Székelys have never been speakers of romanian languge. Originally they spoke western Transdanubian dialects of Hungarian language.

[Adam Janossy]

Mates, do you think Stears old man looks more Magyar or Romanian ?

More Hungarian.

[Blondie]

Not to mention the numerous archeological evidences found in where today's Székelyland lies, these attest the fact that the area has always been populated and wasn't empty before the Magyars arrived.


Some examples
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_fortress_of_Covasna
https://www.academia.edu/28818043/Castrul_roman_de_la_Baraolt_Contribu%C8%9Bii_la_re pertoriul_arheologic_al_jude%C8%9Bului_Covasna
https://web.archive.org/web/20140514164919/http://ran.cimec.ro/sel.asp?lang=EN&descript=bretcu-bretcu-covasna-canabele-castrului-de-la-bretcu-cod-sit-ran-64103.03
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra_of_Reci

But dacians have nothing to do with romanians, you have latin origins, dacians were not latins, but a totally different ethnicity with different language.

[Blondie]

Some people act like Székelys look like extraterrestrials compared to Romanians or something :rolleyes: They are mainly Magyarized Romanians, after all.

Who are romanians? Latinized slavs mostly.... Székelys were always hungarian spakers.

[Blondie]

Do you have actual proof or is it just your nationalistic narrative ? Looks like they have extremely unique customs and are mentioned as group since middle ages, never as Romanians :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

Scattered communities of light-armored Székely warriors lived in the Kingdom of Hungary, especially along the western frontier till the 14th century. Their migration to Transylvania began in the 11th or 12th century. They first settled in southern Transylvania, but they moved to present-day Székely Land after the arrival of the Transylvanian Saxons in the late 12th century. They were subjected to a royal official, the Count of the Székelys, from the 1220s. Their military role enabled them to preserve their privileged status. They did not pay tax and the kings of Hungary could not grant landed property in Székely Land. Their basic administrative units, known as seats from the 14th century, were headed by elected lieutenants and seat judges. They formed one of the "Three Nations of Transylvania" after a "brotherly union" was formed by the noblemen, Székelys and Saxons against the rebellious Transylvanian peasants in 1437.

According to Gesta Hungarorum ond some other source (Kézay) székelys lived there before hungarian conquest.

[Blondie]

Medieval chronicles associated the Székelys with the Huns, also claiming that both the Huns and the Hungarians were descended from the Scythians.[1] Medieval scholars also agreed that the Székelys had already been present in the Carpathian Basin before the Hungarians (or Magyars) conquered the territory.[2] The early 13th-century Gesta Hungarorum was the first to mention that the Székelys "were previously the peoples"[3] of Attila the Hun.[1] According to the same source, the Székelys "gave their sons as hostages along with diverse gifts"[3] to the Hungarian chieftain, Ősbő, at the Körös River before joining his campaign against Menumorut.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kelys

[Adam Janossy]

Location of Kaposvár

http://www.worldeasyguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Where-is-Kaposvar-on-map-Hungary.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1lmEmA7aabOs5LFei-PFLgqPJ7uwMHcP_AxX-Iz2t_ohaGAVH-SU6fjKM

https://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/063/1001206-kaposvar-locator-map.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1GUwiepkwro1szkier67eGF4v8Q1OOM M8ySmIi9aNs7WfRawdGlR3zZZk

[Tommie]

But dacians have nothing to do with romanians, you have latin origins, dacians were not latins, but a totally different ethnicity with different language.
There are Roman archeological sites, too.

[IncelSlayer]

According to Gesta Hungarorum ond some other source (Kézay) székelys lived there before hungarian conquest.

According to Gesta Hungarorum and some other source (Kéza) magyars were BBQ-ing dogs in China when romanians lived in Transylvania, or only the parts from them that fit your narrative count?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

There are Roman archeological finds, too.

this says szeklers land was inhabited by Slavs before they settled

The adoption of more than a dozen place names of Slavic origin[note 4] suggests that scattered Slavic-speaking communities inhabited present-day Székely Land at the time of the Székelys' arrival.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

but also Vlachs

The exact date of the settlement of the Székelys in Transylvania cannot be determined.[26][27][28] Simon of Kéza wrote that the Székelys "acquired part of the country ... not in the plains of Pannonia but in the mountains, which they shared with the Vlachs, mingling with them, it is said"


So it is safe to assume they mixed with both imo.

[IncelSlayer]

this says szeklers land was inhabited by Slavs before they settled

The adoption of more than a dozen place names of Slavic origin[note 4] suggests that scattered Slavic-speaking communities inhabited present-day Székely Land at the time of the Székelys' arrival.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

but also Vlachs

The exact date of the settlement of the Székelys in Transylvania cannot be determined.[26][27][28] Simon of Kéza wrote that the Székelys "acquired part of the country ... not in the plains of Pannonia but in the mountains, which they shared with the Vlachs, mingling with them, it is said"


So it is safe to assume they mixed with both imo.

Problem is modern hungarians from Hungary are not even related to the late ancient-early medieval slavs, because mongols wiped them clean.Most of today hungarians are magyarised newcomers that were invited to populate the empty territories.Yesterday we've even seen a magyar sample from Vojvodina, he had more mongoloid than even balkan turks...!

Hungary in medieval era was an empty land, no one lived there.

[Mr.G]

Location of Kaposvár

http://www.worldeasyguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Where-is-Kaposvar-on-map-Hungary.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1lmEmA7aabOs5LFei-PFLgqPJ7uwMHcP_AxX-Iz2t_ohaGAVH-SU6fjKM

https://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/063/1001206-kaposvar-locator-map.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1GUwiepkwro1szkier67eGF4v8Q1OOM M8ySmIi9aNs7WfRawdGlR3zZZk

According to you, what is the likelyhood Stears' mother is NW shifted (relative to the Gedmatch Eurogenes Hungarian average)? Btw, it turns out 2 of my Hungarian great-grandparents were born in this area, Somogysimonyi and Sagvar, so I have a particular interest in the region.

[Blondie]

this says szeklers land was inhabited by Slavs before they settled

The adoption of more than a dozen place names of Slavic origin[note 4] suggests that scattered Slavic-speaking communities inhabited present-day Székely Land at the time of the Székelys' arrival.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Sz%C3%A9kely_people

but also Vlachs

The exact date of the settlement of the Székelys in Transylvania cannot be determined.[26][27][28] Simon of Kéza wrote that the Székelys "acquired part of the country ... not in the plains of Pannonia but in the mountains, which they shared with the Vlachs, mingling with them, it is said"


So it is safe to assume they mixed with both imo.

The problem with that the medieval sources all said székelys were there before the hungarian conquest happened. Simon of Kéza lived in 13. century when romanians already lived in Transylvania.

[Blondie]

Problem is modern hungarians from Hungary are not even related to the late ancient-early medieval slavs, because mongols wiped them clean.Most of today hungarians are magyarised newcomers that were invited to populate the empty territories.Yesterday we've even seen a magyar sample from Vojvodina, he had more mongoloid than even balkan turks...!

Hungary in medieval era was an empty land, no one lived there.

The population of Medieval Hungary was 2-3 million, nice try troll. By thec way you are romanized hungarian... :D

[Blondie]

Romanians are interesting, they accept the medieval hungarian sources when they talked about vlachs but they don't accept it when he talked about székelys :D :picard1:

[ixulescu]

Székelys have nothing to do with Romanians, since their identity is much older than "Romanians" and they don't look alike. Your mother is Slovak, your genetics shows that.

What are you talking about?
Romanians identity is far older than Szekelys. Romanians call themselves Roman/Ruman/Român since they became Roman citizens fucking 2000 years ago.

Szekelys, while originally most likely a Magyar tribe, have mixed with Romanians massively since they adopted the same lifestyle. The most important Medieval peasant revolt in the area was a common Szekely-Romanian revolt. Hungary, in order to suppress it, had to literally kill it's own peasant foot army. 10 years later this has led to the fall of Hungary to the Ottomans.

[IncelSlayer]

Romanians are interesting, they accept the medieval hungarian sources when they talked about vlachs but they don't accept it when he talked about székelys :D :picard1:

Oh wow you have literally copied my last post and throwed it back at me backwards.Are you sure your german part aint jewish?

[Blondie]

What are you talking about?
Romanians identity is far older than Szekelys. Romanians call themselves Roman/Ruman/Român since they became Roman citizens fucking 2000 years ago.

Szekelys, while originally most likely a Magyar tribe, have mixed with Romanians massively since they adopted the same lifestyle. The most important Medieval peasant revolt in the area was a common Szekely-Romanian revolt. Hungary, in order to suppress it, had to literally kill it's own peasant foot army. 10 years later this has led to the fall of Hungary to the Ottomans.

Romanian identity is older than székely? :D :D :D Romania and the romanian identity is just 160 years old, before that there were no romanian identity just wallachian or moldavian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania#Independence_and_monarchy

[Adam Janossy]

According to you, what is the likelyhood Stears' mother is NW shifted (relative to the Gedmatch Eurogenes Hungarian average)? Btw, it turns out 2 of my Hungarian great-grandparents were born in this area, Somogysimonyi and Sagvar, so I have a particular interest in the region.

There is small chance for that, because she is 25% Croatian who were probably Bunjevac prom deep south of Dalmatia near Dubrovnik. There was mixed Swabian village near her ancestral one but she doesn't know anything about German admixture. That time Swabians did not mix with Hungarians on large scale but kept to themself. So I don't expect her to be very northwest shifted.

[ixulescu]

But dacians have nothing to do with romanians, you have latin origins, dacians were not latins, but a totally different ethnicity with different language.

Romanians are Latinized Balkanites (Dacians) with Slavic admixture.
Like most Balkanites, we do have some Italic Med influence, but it's small, around 10-15%.

[ixulescu]

Romanian identity is older than székely? :D :D :D Romania and the romanian identity is just 160 years old, before that there were no romanian identity just wallachian or moldavian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania#Independence_and_monarchy

Romanians, including Wallachians and Moldovans, called themselves Roman/Ruman/Român since always, many hundreds of years before a Romanian state was formed. Is this news to you?

[Adam Janossy]

What are you talking about?
Romanians identity is far older than Szekelys. Romanians call themselves Roman/Ruman/Român since they became Roman citizens fucking 2000 years ago.

Szekelys, while originally most likely a Magyar tribe, have mixed with Romanians massively since they adopted the same lifestyle. The most important Medieval peasant revolt in the area was a common Szekely-Romanian revolt. Hungary, in order to suppress it, had to literally kill it's own peasant foot army. 10 years later this has led to the fall of Hungary to the Ottomans.

Székely couldn't not mix with Romanians on large scale, since there was a serious religious and cultural barriers, and Romanians belonged to the Eurasian Orthodox world/culture. Moreover, all medieval chronicles recorded that (Vlachs) Romanians were late-nomadic people, so what could Székelys copy from such very different culture?

[Blondie]

Romanians are Latinized Balkanites (Dacians) with Slavic admixture.
Like most Balkanites, we do have some Italic Med influence, but it's small, around 10-15%.

Romanians are not latinized dacians becuse there were no latinized dacian population in this area according to medieval sources:

Procopius wrote: "The River Ister (Danube) flows down from the mountains in the country of the Celts, who are now called Gauls; and it passes through a great extent of country which for the most part is altogether barren, though in some places it is inhabited by barbarians who live a kind of brutish life and have no dealings with other men. When it gets close to Dacia, for the first time it clearly forms the boundary between the barbarians, who hold its left bank, and the territory of the Romans, which is on the right". - Peri Ktismaton (Buildings), Book IV, 9-10. Procopius shows in an unequivocal manner that there was no Roman-like people dwelling in the lands on other side of the Danube, namely, in Dacia.

Jordanes wrote: "I mean ancient Dacia, which the race of the Gepids now possess. This Gothia, which our ancestors called Dacia and now, as I have said, is called Gepidia, was then bounded on the east by the Roxolani, on the west by the Yazyg, on the north by the Sarmatians and Basternae and on the south by the river Danube. The Yazyg are separated from the Roxolani by the Aluta river only". - Getica, XII, 73-74. Not even Jordanes did mention any Romans or Romanized inhabitants in Dacia.

By the way i like when romanians love Gesta Hungarorum so much, because this complete source is about hungarians (as huns) lived in Carpathian Basin since 5. century, and the counquest is just returning to our ancestors Attila's land. This complete source is full of hun-hungarian (and scythian) continuity :D

[ixulescu]

Székely did not mix with Romanians, since there was a serious religious barrier, and Romanians belonged to the Eurasian Orthodox world/culture. Moreover, all medieval chronicles recorded that (Vlachs) Romanians were late-nomadic people, so what could Székelys copy from such very different culture?

Hi Stears, I can recognize your bullshit from a mile away :D
Romanians and Vlachs were never nomadic people, sing that song at another table.

Szekelys did mix with Romanians because they shared the same shepherding practices, despite the religious differences. Same thing happened with Romanians who mixed with Moravians, Gorals, and Catholic Ruthenians.

[ixulescu]

Romanians are not latinized dacians becuse there were no latinized dacian population in this area according to medieval sources:

Procopius wrote: "The River Ister (Danube) flows down from the mountains in the country of the Celts, who are now called Gauls; and it passes through a great extent of country which for the most part is altogether barren, though in some places it is inhabited by barbarians who live a kind of brutish life and have no dealings with other men. When it gets close to Dacia, for the first time it clearly forms the boundary between the barbarians, who hold its left bank, and the territory of the Romans, which is on the right". - Peri Ktismaton (Buildings), Book IV, 9-10. Procopius shows in an unequivocal manner that there was no Roman-like people dwelling in the lands on other side of the Danube, namely, in Dacia.

Jordanes wrote: "I mean ancient Dacia, which the race of the Gepids now possess. This Gothia, which our ancestors called Dacia and now, as I have said, is called Gepidia, was then bounded on the east by the Roxolani, on the west by the Yazyg, on the north by the Sarmatians and Basternae and on the south by the river Danube. The Yazyg are separated from the Roxolani by the Aluta river only". - Getica, XII, 73-74. Not even Jordanes did mention any Romans or Romanized inhabitants in Dacia.


Jordanes Getica is considered a fiction work by historians. Keep quoting it :D

[Blondie]

Hi Stears, I can recognize your bullshit from a mile away :D
Romanians and Vlachs were never nomadic people, sing that song at another table.

Szekelys did mix with Romanians because they shared the same shepherding practices, despite the religious differences. Same thing happened with Romanians who mixed with Moravians, Gorals, and Catholic Ruthenians.

Romanians as shepherds had nomadic life style they migrated across half Europe and Caucasus too:

"As national states appeared in the area of the former Ottoman Empire, new state borders were developed that divided the summer and winter habitats of many of the pastoral groups. During the Middle Ages, many Vlachs were shepherds who drove their flocks through the mountains of Central and Eastern Europe. Vlach shepherds may be found as far north as southern Poland (Podhale) and the eastern Czech Republic (Moravia) by following the Carpathians, the Dinaric Alps in the west, the Pindus Mountains in the south, and the Caucasus Mountains in the east.[59]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

[Blondie]

Jordanes Getica is considered a fiction work by historians. Keep quoting it :D

Of course everything is fiction by you, just the romanian nationalist point of view is the pure truth :D

[ixulescu]

Of course everything is fiction by you, just the romanian nationalist point of view is the pure truth :D

Read here:

Danish scholar Arne Søby Christensen claims that the Getica was an entirely fabricated account, and that the origin of the Goths in the book is a construction based on popular Greek and Roman myths as well as a misinterpretation of recorded names from Northern Europe. The purpose of this fabrication, according to Christensen, was to establish a glorious identity for the peoples that had recently gained power in post-Roman Europe.[16] Canadian scholar Walter Goffart suggests another incentive: Getica was part of a conscious plan by emperor Justinian and the propaganda machine at his court. He wanted to affirm that Goths (and their barbarian cousins) did not belong to the Roman world, thus justifying the claims of the Eastern Roman Empire to the western part of the latter.[17]

But then again, Danes and Canadians are Romanian nationalists.

[ixulescu]

Romanians as shepherds had nomadic life style they migrated across half Europe and Caucasus too:

"As national states appeared in the area of the former Ottoman Empire, new state borders were developed that divided the summer and winter habitats of many of the pastoral groups. During the Middle Ages, many Vlachs were shepherds who drove their flocks through the mountains of Central and Eastern Europe. Vlach shepherds may be found as far north as southern Poland (Podhale) and the eastern Czech Republic (Moravia) by following the Carpathians, the Dinaric Alps in the west, the Pindus Mountains in the south, and the Caucasus Mountains in the east.[59]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

Some Islamized Vlachs were moved by the Ottomans in Anatolia and Caucasus, but in no significant number.

The extent of Vlachs lands were the mountainous regions of the Balkans and the Carpathians. Vlachs shepherds were also acting as border guards and/or army auxiliaries, hence the preferential taxation. One cannot be a nomad and a border guard at the same time.

Anyone who claims Vlachs were nomads is either stupid or a propagandist.

[ModernMaskil]

Sexy ass Szekely for ya https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Louis_CK_2012_Shankbone.JPG/800px-Louis_CK_2012_Shankbone.JPG

[Blondie]

Read here:

Danish scholar Arne Søby Christensen claims that the Getica was an entirely fabricated account, and that the origin of the Goths in the book is a construction based on popular Greek and Roman myths as well as a misinterpretation of recorded names from Northern Europe. The purpose of this fabrication, according to Christensen, was to establish a glorious identity for the peoples that had recently gained power in post-Roman Europe.[16] Canadian scholar Walter Goffart suggests another incentive: Getica was part of a conscious plan by emperor Justinian and the propaganda machine at his court. He wanted to affirm that Goths (and their barbarian cousins) did not belong to the Roman world, thus justifying the claims of the Eastern Roman Empire to the western part of the latter.[17]

But then again, Danes and Canadians are Romanian nationalists.

So if one people don't accept it as real source that this is does not exist... :D By the way many historian also don't accept Gesta Hungarorum as real source. What is the real truth? Good question, we may never know, that's why these hungarian-romanian comment wars makes no sense. Hungarians and romanians have very different opinion on history, we need a time machine :D

[ixulescu]

So if one people don't accept it as real source that this is does not exist... :D By the way many historian also don't accept Gesta Hungarorum as real source. What is the real truth? Good question, we may never know, that's why these hungarian-romanian comment wars makes no sense. Hungarians and romanians have very different opinion on history, we need a time machine :D

I think the understanding of history is getting better with the new archaeological and DNA evidence, but we may never recover the whole historical truth. So we can enjoy endless Hungarian-Romanian flame wars :D

[Daco Celtic]

Eastern and Southeastern Europeans claim to see all these huge differences between neighboring populations. Americans can hardly differentiate between a Romanian and a dark Pole, let alone between Romanians and Székelys.

[Jana]

Embarassing thread by complexed Romanians.

[ixulescu]

Embarassing thread by complexed Romanians.

Stears, how are you dawg?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Eastern and Southeastern Europeans claim to see all these huge differences between neighboring populations. Americans can hardly differentiate between a Romanian and a dark Pole, let alone between Romanians and Székelys.

As a Moldavian that knows both Hungarians and Szekelys, they do look different. Szekelys are in-between the two.

I worked with a 35% Hungarian/Szekely team (so like 30 people out of a team of 80) and a third of them looked foreign, but mostly the Hungarian ones and not the Szekelys. Those who did look foreign looked Germanic mixed.

I now work with 3 Szekelys and 2 Hungarians - one looks Alfold as fuck, one looks German, one looks Romanian (the Szekelys), while one Hungarian looks perfectly Romanian and the other passes but looks ”peculiar”.

The Alfold guy and the German-looking Szekely I could immediately tell are Hungarian/Szekely, the rest not really.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

This guy for example is named Székely (no idea if he is just half or even Székely at all ) but looks absurdly Hungarian and would not have guessed him as anything else.

https://www.nemzetisport.hu/data/cikk/2/59/44/79/cikk_2594479/1200szekely_960px.jpg

[Kökény]

Stears, how are you dawg?
Fine, what about you?

[Kökény]

This guy for example is named Székely (no idea if he is just half or even Székely at all )
Depends on where he's from, since the surname Székely exist in both Hungary and Transylvania.

[Viridian1]

In the pics they don't look romanian at all.

[Jana]

Stears, how are you dawg?

He looks Szekely, so there you go.

[RN97]

Eastern and Southeastern Europeans claim to see all these huge differences between neighboring populations. Americans can hardly differentiate between a Romanian and a dark Pole, let alone between Romanians and Székelys.

Because you legit can't tell. Unless you're an anthrotard and you're using groups I guess. I'm not really into this arguing online stuff anymore, feel like I've gotten too old and mature, but I've always felt that arguing about who looks more nordic, lighter or whatever vindicates nordicists when majority non-nordic populations do it. Neither Romanians nor Hungarians were ever considered on par with nordics by actual nordicists. Easy to tell when you look at Hitler's plan for Europe or America's immigration restrictions during the early 20th century.

[Roy]

More like Hungarians.

[ixulescu]

In the pics they don't look romanian at all.

That's because those are Hungarians who come to the annual pilgrimage at Sumuleu Ciuc. Very few there are actual Szekelys.

If you think you can identify Szekelys easily you can try to distinguish them from Romanians here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?309084-Guess-the-Szekelys&highlight=Szekely

[Viridian1]

That's because those are Hungarians who come to the annual pilgrimage at Sumuleu Ciuc. Very few there are actual Szekelys.

If you think you can identify Szekelys easily you can try to distinguish them from Romanians here:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?309084-Guess-the-Szekelys&highlight=Szekely

You already answered that poll so I didn't vote but I was right. There is something in the eyes shape that makes them look different from Wallachians or Moldovians. And they have fairer pigmentation.

[Videx]

Eastern and Southeastern Europeans claim to see all these huge differences between neighboring populations. Americans can hardly differentiate between a Romanian and a dark Pole, let alone between Romanians and Székelys.

Well, that is just American people's ignorance, it doesn't mean it's the truth.

[Daco Celtic]

Well, that is just American people's ignorance, it doesn't mean it's the truth.

or maybe it is the fact that Americans are objective and not blinded by nationalist desires

[Jana]

That's because those are Hungarians who come to the annual pilgrimage at Sumuleu Ciuc. Very few there are actual Szekelys.

No, they are all Szekelys. Stop spread disgusting lies just because they don't look Romanian. Szekely girls in Szekely folk clothes are guess what....Szekelys.

Shame on you.

[Dunai]

Székelys have a more Balkanic look than Hungarians, but when traveling through Transylvania it was very easy to see how the facial features would change when you would be in cities with mostly Romanian population, or where Hungarians were in high number or even majority (like all over Székelyföld). Romanians generally tend to look very Balkanic, while among Székelys you can often see also types that you see in East-Central Europe. Also they have a more Turanid look than Romanians. It's just the reality from the ground.

[Kökény]

No, they are all Szekelys. Stop spread disgusting lies just because they don't look Romanian. Szekely girls in Szekely folk clothes are guess what....Szekelys.
Yes, the pictures on the first page are from a folk themed festival attended only by Szekelys. It's meant to celebrate our folk costumes/dances. It's held at Csíksomlyó, just like the pilgrimage.

I linked some pictures from it to War Chief the other day.

[Daco Celtic]

Because you legit can't tell. Unless you're an anthrotard and you're using groups I guess. I'm not really into this arguing online stuff anymore, feel like I've gotten too old and mature, but I've always felt that arguing about who looks more nordic, lighter or whatever vindicates nordicists when majority non-nordic populations do it. Neither Romanians nor Hungarians were ever considered on par with nordics by actual nordicists. Easy to tell when you look at Hitler's plan for Europe or America's immigration restrictions during the early 20th century.

Well, lots of people on TA think their ethnic group is special and looks nothing like the other ethnic group next door. It's an anthrotard - nationalist double platter. I'd almost trust the opinion of an American or Canadian off the street than some of the characters on TA if only because the American would naturally be more objective and agenda-free.