MAL'TA boy spoke IndoEuropeans?

[Proto-Shaman]

R is irrefutably connected to the IndoEuropean languages by geography even today.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/448829v1

".. the Ket, an isolated population that speaks a Yeniseian language and which has previously been described as rich in ANE-ancestry and with genetic links to Paleoeskimos. ..... Our findings therefore reconcile the proposed linguistic link between the Yeniseian speaking Ket and Na-Dene speaking Athabascan populations."

And here my 2nd question rises: were Paleoeskimo-Mongol Q1 and Na-Dene-Mongol C3 originally IndoEuropean Yeniseians (ANE)? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If so, haplogroup C spoke IndoEuropeans, too! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/8T6IWe6.png

[Ayetooey]

Looks like I2 is the only safe haven left, even C was part of the Turanic expansion (Mashallah); we I2a are the only bastions of non Turanid stock left on the planet, other than Saharid E1B; we took our refuge in Kurdistan.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Just stop with your stupid Turanic agenda dumb turd.

[Proto-Shaman]

Looks like I2 is the only safe haven left, even C was part of the Turanic expansion (Mashallah); we I2a are the only bastions of non Turanid stock left on the planet, other than Saharid E1B; we took our refuge in Kurdistan.
So, basically IndoEuropeans was Turanic. Interesting theory :thumb001:

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Turanists, the most pathetic race world has ever seen.

[Proto-Shaman]

Just stop with your stupid Turanic agenda dumb turd.
Please? Elaborate. People must understand what you mean. Which agenda? Do you mean the agenda of Petros Houhoulis aka. Honululu?

[Proto-Shaman]

Turanists, the most pathetic race world has ever seen.


https://i.imgur.com/bRVXNPL.jpg
MAL'TA boy spoke IndoEuropeans?

[JMack]

T U R A N I S E V E R Y W H E R E

[Thracian]

No.

His actual name was Turan. He was the first Turanist.

[Tanais]

MAL'TA boy spoke IndoEuropeans?

Only in Indo-Eurist psychology, everybody speaks Indo-European. Didn‘t you know this? Even Xiongnu and Skythians spoke Indo-European.

[Voskos]

My 2 cents: R mixed with I,J,C,H,E,N,G in Europe and the result was a bastard language , namely proto-IE.

[Ayetooey]

My 2 cents: R mixed with I,J,C,H,E,N,G in Europe and the result was a bastard language , namely proto-IE.

IJ Cheng? Sounds like a Han Chinese rapper.

[Proto-Shaman]

Only in Indo-Eurist psychology, everybody speaks Indo-European. Didn‘t you know this? Even Xiongnu and Skythians spoke Indo-European.

https://i.imgur.com/D8RVt8Z.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

No.

His actual name was Turan. He was the first Turanist.
???
https://i.imgur.com/8nW6Hjs.gif

https://i.imgur.com/sezKoDn.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

My 2 cents: R mixed with I,J,C,H,E,N,G in Europe and the result was a bastard language , namely proto-IE.
+1

[Tanais]

???
https://i.imgur.com/8nW6Hjs.gif

:rofl_002::rofl_002::rofl_002:

[Dorian]

It's more than obvious that he was a protogreek-pelasgian-hametoaryan/prototuran before these two splitted later..

Protoaegeanmediterranid+prototuranid mix before the neanderthal/denisovan mixtures and selective pressure

https://www.wildcard.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Return-of-the-Bushmen-Discovery-Trails-Kruger-1-min-1140x641.jpg

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The European region with the highest incidence of R1 also has virtually 0% East Asian/Volga-Ural/Siberian/Mongoloid genomes so your theory doesn't really make sense.

[Proto-Shaman]

It's more than obvious that he was a protogreek-pelasgian-hametoaryan/prototuran before these two splitted later..

Protoaegeanmediterranid+prototuranid mix before the neanderthal/denisovan mixtures and selective pressure

https://i.imgur.com/tge70hC.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

The European region with the highest incidence of R1 also has virtually 0% East Asian/Volga-Ural/Siberian/Mongoloid genomes so your theory doesn't really make sense.
Last time I checked, Europeans have a lot of bastardized ANE-ancestry. So, your dogmatist IE behavior doesn't really make sense. If you would have read the entry, you wouldn't be embarrassed now.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Last time I checked, Europeans have a lot of bastardized ANE-ancestry. So, your dogmatist IE behavior doesn't really make sense.

Malta Boy in Eurogenes K15 calculator = 0% East Asian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Euro 38.02
2 South_Asian 20.31
3 Amerindian 18.62
4 North_Sea 15.91
5 Baltic 6.54
6 Sub-Saharan 0.47
7 Oceanian 0.12

[Proto-Shaman]

Malta Boy in Eurogenes K15 calculator = 0% East Asian:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Eastern_Euro 38.02
2 South_Asian 20.31
3 Amerindian 18.62
4 North_Sea 15.91
5 Baltic 6.54
6 Sub-Saharan 0.47
7 Oceanian 0.12
Malta Boy in MDLP K23b calculator :picard2:

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_Altaic 83.75
2 Amerindian 7.08
3 South_Indian 3.9
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 2.87
5 South_Central_Asian 1.63
6 Australoid 0.48
7 Archaic_African 0.28

Ancestral_Altaic = ANE

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Please? Elaborate. People must understand what you mean. Which agenda? Do you mean the agenda of Petros Houhoulis aka. Honululu?

R1 is Indo-European.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://i.imgur.com/bRVXNPL.jpg
MAL'TA boy spoke IndoEuropeans?

Lmao :lol:

you got style, i'll give you that xD

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

MA-1 belongs to Y-DNA haplogroup R* and mtDNA haplogroup U. Haplogroup U is a typical haplogroup of European hunter-gatherers and Y-DNA haplogroup R* is the ancestral haplogroup for R1a and R1b. West Siberian populations such as Mansi and Khants have the high frequency of hg U4, which is a West Eurasian haplogroup inherited from ancient European hunting-gatherers. The presence of Asian haplogroups is a result of population admixture which goes back to 6,000–10,000 years ago. Ancient Siberians who lived around 24,000-10,000 years ago had no East Asian admixture

[Proto-Shaman]

R1 is Indo-Europeans.

https://i.imgur.com/Ce0W4g5.png

https://i.imgur.com/8T6IWe6.png

https://i.imgur.com/c0s9jiQ.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

MA-1 belongs to Y-DNA haplogroup R* and mtDNA haplogroup U. Haplogroup U is a typical haplogroup of European hunter-gatherers and Y-DNA haplogroup R* is the ancestral haplogroup for R1a and R1b. West Siberian populations such as Mansi and Khants have the high frequency of hg U4, which is a West Eurasian haplogroup inherited from ancient European hunting-gatherers. The presence of Asian haplogroups is a result of population admixture which goes back to 6,000–10,000 years ago. Ancient Siberians who lived around 24,000-10,000 years ago had no East Asian admixture

Malta Boy in MDLP K23b calculator :picard2:

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_Altaic 83.75
2 Amerindian 7.08
3 South_Indian 3.9
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 2.87
5 South_Central_Asian 1.63
6 Australoid 0.48
7 Archaic_African 0.28

Ancestral_Altaic = ANE

First mtDNA haplogroup U was found in Mongoloid P1 Yakutia, Yana. ANS-ANE people.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

ANE is white man's admixture. East Asians got none of it.

[Proto-Shaman]

ANE is white man's admixture. East Asians got none of it.
East Asians are haplogroup O. There is no business with them. We are talking about eternal and sacred Turan dna.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

ANE is white man's admixture. East Asians got none of it.

He is mistaking ANE with Siberian admixture (ENA).

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

East Asians are haplogroup O. There is no business with them. We are talking about eternal and sacred Turan dna.

Proto Turks were East Asians bruv. :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

He is mistaking ANE with Siberian admixture (ENA).
Nope: ANE is derived from Ancient North Siberians (ANS). You didn't read the paper in the entry yet? :picard2:

[Token]

Nope. Anyone with minimal knowledge on linguistics knows Proto-Indo-European or anything resembling it can't be much older than the Eneolithic. Upper Paleolithic is very, very far away.

[Proto-Shaman]

Proto Turks were East Asians bruv. :rolleyes:
Indo-Europeans, too bruv. :rolleyes:

[Proto-Shaman]

Too every stupid monk who still believes in this "Europeans have only 1% East Asian & the job is done" myths.

Mal'ta ANE-ancestry derives from ANS:

https://i.imgur.com/qEB7jWY.png

IE = BASTARDIZED TURAN

[Zuh]

Like

[Livin]

Yes,siberian HG.Phenomically they were something like modern siberians.They absorded other elements after the expasion to eastern europe.This is why some germanics look so chinese..

[Petros Houhoulis]

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/448829v1


And here my 2nd question rises: were Paleoeskimo-Mongol Q1 and Na-Dene-Mongol C3 originally IndoEuropean Yeniseians (ANE)? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If so, haplogroup C spoke IndoEuropeans, too! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/8T6IWe6.png

What the fuck does R have to do with Q1 or C3??? Those were never IndoEuropean...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Nope: ANE is derived from Ancient North Siberians (ANS). You didn't read the paper in the entry yet? :picard2:

Yes, at a time when neither IndoEuropean nor Altaic was spoken by anybody. Back then humans were making animal sounds at best...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Please? Elaborate. People must understand what you mean. Which agenda? Do you mean the agenda of Petros Houhoulis aka. Honululu?

I shall explain to you what he means. You Turanids are a collection of Beta Canines whose great ambition is to find an Alpha male (A Sultan, an Ataturk, another Sultan nowadays) who shall screw them hard and deep. You just love it, don't you?

You are just like NAZI Germany but a thousand times more lasting and a thousand times less effective...

[Proto-Shaman]

What the fuck does R have to do with Q1 or C3??? Those were never IndoEuropean...
Read the paper.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Read the paper.

If we apply your "logic" to any paper, all people should speak AfroAsiatic languages, since haplogroup A* which was the first humans!!!

[Proto-Shaman]

If we apply your "logic" to any paper, all people should speak AfroAsiatic languages, since haplogroup A* which was the first humans!!!
Read the paper.

[Proto-Shaman]

https://i.imgur.com/YDKxekf.jpg

[ZuzëShkyrësi]

but pie?

[Proto-Shaman]

but pie?
24.000 years ago?

...

IN SIBERIA ?

...

at those times the ancestors of P-P-P-IE were living in paleolithic East Africa.

[ZuzëShkyrësi]

no no, malta boy was sister language with modern greek. that why we see turkish words in 1700's greek, because they lived in malta boy close to prototurks

[Dorian]

Ute zi katalavhez te ipez kathistera vaniarialva..

[Livin]

If we apply your "logic" to any paper, all people should speak AfroAsiatic languages, since haplogroup A* which was the first humans!!!

R lineagers were mammoth HG from siberia.The term indoeuropean is a very late thing since these R linages absorbed elements from eastern europe and caucasus.This is how indoeuropeans created.

A mix of EHG/ANE/CHG and later absording EEF and WHG.

But if we talk about the MAL'TA boy keep in mind he was something like modern uralics.

[Proto-Shaman]

But if we talk about the MAL'TA boy keep in mind he was something like modern uralics.
More like Ural+Altaic:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tubalar ( ) 51.21
2 Mansi ( ) 52.14
3 Khant ( ) 52.39
4 Udmurd ( ) 58
5 Ket ( ) 59.98
6 Saami ( ) 60.04
7 Selkup ( ) 60.38
8 Hakas ( ) 64.36
9 Saami_Finland ( ) 65.18
10 Mari ( ) 65.42
11 Bashkir ( ) 65.71
12 Chuvash ( ) 67.72
13 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 68.3
14 Komi ( ) 68.42
15 Chuvashs ( ) 70.7
16 Saami_Kola ( ) 70.99
17 Altaian ( ) 71.46
18 Tatar_Kryashen ( ) 72.04
19 Tatar ( ) 72.65
20 Nenets ( ) 72.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.5% Tubalar ( ) + 47.5% Khant ( ) @ 45.6
2 52.5% Tubalar ( ) + 47.5% Mansi ( ) @ 46.77
3 71.9% Tubalar ( ) + 28.1% Ket ( ) @ 49.46
4 71.8% Tubalar ( ) + 28.2% Udmurd ( ) @ 49.87
5 66.5% Khant ( ) + 33.5% Udmurd ( ) @ 50.34
6 78.3% Tubalar ( ) + 21.7% Selkup ( ) @ 50.37
7 82.3% Tubalar ( ) + 17.7% Saami ( ) @ 50.74
8 88.5% Tubalar ( ) + 11.5% Nenets ( ) @ 50.76
9 89.7% Tubalar ( ) + 10.3% Nenets_Forest ( ) @ 50.77
10 89.7% Tubalar ( ) + 10.3% Nenets_Tundra ( ) @ 50.78
11 82.2% Khant ( ) + 17.8% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 50.95
12 82.9% Khant ( ) + 17.1% Ojibwa ( ) @ 50.97
13 95.5% Tubalar ( ) + 4.5% Totonac ( ) @ 51.01
14 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Karitiana ( ) @ 51.01
15 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Surui ( ) @ 51.01
16 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Wichi ( ) @ 51.01
17 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Guarani ( ) @ 51.01
18 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Chane ( ) @ 51.01
19 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Ticuna ( ) @ 51.01
20 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Wayuu ( ) @ 51.01

[Livin]

More like Ural+Altaic:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tubalar ( ) 51.21
2 Mansi ( ) 52.14
3 Khant ( ) 52.39
4 Udmurd ( ) 58
5 Ket ( ) 59.98
6 Saami ( ) 60.04
7 Selkup ( ) 60.38
8 Hakas ( ) 64.36
9 Saami_Finland ( ) 65.18
10 Mari ( ) 65.42
11 Bashkir ( ) 65.71
12 Chuvash ( ) 67.72
13 Tatar-Siberian ( ) 68.3
14 Komi ( ) 68.42
15 Chuvashs ( ) 70.7
16 Saami_Kola ( ) 70.99
17 Altaian ( ) 71.46
18 Tatar_Kryashen ( ) 72.04
19 Tatar ( ) 72.65
20 Nenets ( ) 72.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.5% Tubalar ( ) + 47.5% Khant ( ) @ 45.6
2 52.5% Tubalar ( ) + 47.5% Mansi ( ) @ 46.77
3 71.9% Tubalar ( ) + 28.1% Ket ( ) @ 49.46
4 71.8% Tubalar ( ) + 28.2% Udmurd ( ) @ 49.87
5 66.5% Khant ( ) + 33.5% Udmurd ( ) @ 50.34
6 78.3% Tubalar ( ) + 21.7% Selkup ( ) @ 50.37
7 82.3% Tubalar ( ) + 17.7% Saami ( ) @ 50.74
8 88.5% Tubalar ( ) + 11.5% Nenets ( ) @ 50.76
9 89.7% Tubalar ( ) + 10.3% Nenets_Forest ( ) @ 50.77
10 89.7% Tubalar ( ) + 10.3% Nenets_Tundra ( ) @ 50.78
11 82.2% Khant ( ) + 17.8% Tajik_Pomiri_Shugnan ( ) @ 50.95
12 82.9% Khant ( ) + 17.1% Ojibwa ( ) @ 50.97
13 95.5% Tubalar ( ) + 4.5% Totonac ( ) @ 51.01
14 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Karitiana ( ) @ 51.01
15 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Surui ( ) @ 51.01
16 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Wichi ( ) @ 51.01
17 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Guarani ( ) @ 51.01
18 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Chane ( ) @ 51.01
19 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Ticuna ( ) @ 51.01
20 95.6% Tubalar ( ) + 4.4% Wayuu ( ) @ 51.01




To me Uralics and Altaic people are pretty much ONE.I don't see big differences tbh.

They split probably from a common ancestor...

[Proto-Shaman]

To me Uralics and Altaic people are pretty much ONE.I don't see big differences tbh.

They split probably from a common ancestor...
According to Petros Houlhoulis all these tribes are actually Indo-European in denial :laugh:

[Livin]

According to Petros Houlhoulis all these tribes are actually Indo-European in denial :laugh:

This person has no idea about genetics.

[Tong]

everyone hates turanists but they never disprove them lol

[Proto-Shaman]

everyone hates turanists but they never disprove them lol

most TA members imagine me like this:

https://i.imgur.com/bOvXMZW.jpg

... but either end up like this:

https://i.imgur.com/UyUB4GF.jpg

... or in worst case scenarios end up like this:

https://i.imgur.com/nzoNjO4.jpg

[Proto-Shaman]

This person has no idea about genetics.
I think TA gives him the sense of his life. I feel pity for him.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Read the paper.

Hey, canine, let me tell you a secret.

You don't have scientific labs that could analyse your DNA in Turkey, or even in Russia where your hero Klyosov comes from. All of the commercial and the top rate scientific DNA analysts are in the west. This is why they produce SCIENCE and you produce BULLCRAP.

All of your "papers" are philological in nature, none of them are based upon hard science.

You have LOST the SCIENCE WAR and your little Turkish geneticists are bitching about it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/magazine/ancient-dna-paleogenomics.html?mc=adintl&ad-keywords=IntlAudDev&subid1=TAFI&fbclid=IwAR14FeYFUS9TjPLsa9oYP39qQi-oyaNUPl3SwbVhvYS4YRo4B-XqPhgDPY4&dclid=CjgKEAjwvuzkBRDY3vuKgJ2XwRUSJACWKlOAW_7HGrMY lhl7_x_00L0jpN2oAfA14epgZkKk5dF8oPD_BwE

Chapter: 6. The Storm Beneath the Surface

bottom part of chapter:


The weaker the institutions of the country, the harder it is for local researchers to have a fighting chance. Scientists in Turkey and Mexico told me that museum curators routinely had to explain that they had promised their native bone collections elsewhere. As one ancient-DNA researcher in Turkey put it to me, “Certain geneticists see the rest of world as the 19th-century colonialists saw Africa — as raw-material opportunities and nothing else.”


Poor Turkish DNA researcher at work:

http://www.nationalturk.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/turk-somali-saldiri-nationalturk-04848.jpg

Further below:



It has not gone unnoticed that the stunning, magisterial sweep of genetic revisionism, on the one hand, and a genetic emphasis on radical prehistoric migrations, on the other, bear more than a little in common. Some anthropologists and archaeologists accept this analogy with gallows humor. One told me that I should model this article after the format of the standard Nature paper: “Ancient DNA Reveals Massive Population Turnovers in the Humanities,” she suggested as a title, and proposed this as an abstract: “The aristocratic lab scientists arrived with their superior technology and displaced the pre-existing researchers and their primitive truth-implements and overcomplicated belief systems.”


Keep your toilet paper to yourself canine...

[Petros Houhoulis]

This person has no idea about genetics.

I know as much genetics as it is necessary to prove that the canines are idiots, and I have modern science in my side:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/magazine/ancient-dna-paleogenomics.html?mc=adintl&ad-keywords=IntlAudDev&subid1=TAFI&fbclid=IwAR14FeYFUS9TjPLsa9oYP39qQi-oyaNUPl3SwbVhvYS4YRo4B-XqPhgDPY4&dclid=CjgKEAjwvuzkBRDY3vuKgJ2XwRUSJACWKlOAW_7HGrMY lhl7_x_00L0jpN2oAfA14epgZkKk5dF8oPD_BwE


While Paabo continued to work on the Neanderthal period, Reich devoted his energy to obtaining samples from the last 10,000 or so years — the historical domain of archaeologists. Ancient DNA’s “big bang,” as more than one geneticist described it to me, came with the 2015 publication (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14317), in Nature, of a Reich paper called “Massive Migration From the Steppe Was a Source for Indo-European Languages in Europe.” On the basis of genetic information culled from 69 ancient individuals dug up by collaborating archaeologists in Scandinavia, Western Europe and Russia, the paper argued that Europeans aren’t quite who they thought they were. About 5,000 years ago, a “relatively sudden” mass migration of nomadic herders from the east — the steppes of eastern Ukraine and southern Russia — swept in and almost entirely replaced existing communities of hunter-gatherers and early farmers in Central and Northern Europe. These newcomers were known to exploit many of the cutting-edge technologies of the time: the domestication of horses, the wheel and, perhaps most salient, axes and spearheads of copper. (Their corpses sometimes featured cutting-edge wounds.)
The Reich team inferred that the major source of contemporary European ancestry — and probably Indo-European languages as well — was not, in fact, from Europe but from far to the east. And this discovery, confirmed by the near-simultaneous publication of almost identical results from a competing ancient-DNA lab in Denmark, had monumental implications for science’s understanding of the whole ancient world. Great migration events — like the movement of Siberian peoples into North America or the spread of voyagers into the Pacific — were not outliers but the norm. After Europe and India, there were similar mass migrations identified in Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia. No one ever expected that we could possibly amass so much new evidence about the human past. And no one was producing this work at the pace and throughput of David Reich and his genomics factory. Most scientists felt lucky if they published one or at the most two Nature papers in a lifetime. Reich was publishing three or four a year.


Others saw less to laugh at. Some archaeologists who had collaborated on the 2015 paper about Indo-European invasions withdrew their names to protest conclusions they saw as echoes of Kossinna — the mass migrations of advanced Indo-Europeans into Central Europe. (Reich got the critics back on board by adding a note, on Page 138 of their paper’s 141-page supplementary materials, that said their work in fact contradicted Kossinna, not because he was wrong about mass migration but on a technicality: The European ancestral homeland had, in fact, been far to the east, near the Caucasus and nowhere near present-day Germany.) The analogue was hard to counter. Geneticists had indeed swept down from their laboratory enclaves to extend their sovereignty over what had always been the terrain of archaeology. And no single individual had as much influence or power as Reich.

What does Kipchak Hakan has? Some delusion that the IndoEuropean languages developed from Altaic, or some silly notion that the core of the IndoEuropeans did not belong to the haplogroup R as Reich has proven conclusively, with the support of others:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5048219/


Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b


Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis) of Marija Gimbutas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marija_Gimbutas) regarding the Proto-Indo-European homeland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_homeland). According to those studies, haplogroups R1b and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also common in South Asia) would have expanded from the West Eurasian Steppe, along with the Indo-European languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages); they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Europe), which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#cite_note-biorxiv.org-3)[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#cite_note-ReferenceB-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#cite_note-ReferenceC-5)

All that canines can do is dispute true Science and Wikipedia, and all they get is laughter in response.

[Petros Houhoulis]

R lineagers were mammoth HG from siberia.The term indoeuropean is a very late thing since these R linages absorbed elements from eastern europe and caucasus.This is how indoeuropeans created.

A mix of EHG/ANE/CHG and later absording EEF and WHG.

But if we talk about the MAL'TA boy keep in mind he was something like modern uralics.

What does MAL'TA boy have to do with the IndoEuropeans anyway? We don't have proof of IndoEuropeans being that far east until Ivan the Terrible cucked the ancestors of Kipchak Hakan...

[Petros Houhoulis]

24.000 years ago?

...

IN SIBERIA ?

...

at those times the ancestors of P-P-P-IE were living in paleolithic East Africa.

In your dreams. IndoEuropean came from West Asia, perhaps even parts of Siberia, but not from the canine homeland.

[Livin]

What does MAL'TA boy have to do with the IndoEuropeans anyway? We don't have proof of IndoEuropeans being that far east until Ivan the Terrible cucked the ancestors of Kipchak Hakan...

As i said indoeuropean is a really late thing. R haplo originated somewhere in modern siberia. I didnt said that MAl' TA boy was pure indoeuropean lol.

The indoeuropeans are a creation of many populations. But You Like it or not the first R people before move their asses to eastern Europe and absorded EHG and CHG they were pure ANE(ancient North eurasian).The ANE component is what conects europeans and native Americans.Genetistics calling it also the ghost population because they dont have enough informations.

[Antimatter]

There is no way you are involving L1b1-M317 with this Turanian propaganda/nonsense.

[Antimatter]

Just because it is R doesn't necessarily mean it's Indo-European. Many branches of R are not Indo-Europeans, for example R2 or R1b1a2 (R-V88). R-V88 is the farthest thing from Indo-Europeans and associating haplogroups with languages is very faulty. Instead, say R-Z2103 is Indo-European, R-P312 is Celtic etc.. not otherwise.

[Proto-Shaman]

still unable to see it :picard2:

[Petros Houhoulis]

As i said indoeuropean is a really late thing. R haplo originated somewhere in modern siberia. I didnt said that MAl' TA boy was pure indoeuropean lol.

The indoeuropeans are a creation of many populations. But You Like it or not the first R people before move their asses to eastern Europe and absorded EHG and CHG they were pure ANE(ancient North eurasian).The ANE component is what conects europeans and native Americans.Genetistics calling it also the ghost population because they dont have enough informations.

Why shouldn't I like it? I have been classified as a Borreby in this very website, thus I am closer to the ANE than most Greeks anyway.

The association of the R haplogroup with the IndoEuropeans and not the Turanids remains an undisputed fact in scientific circles.

[Petros Houhoulis]

Just because it is R doesn't necessarily mean it's Indo-European. Many branches of R are not Indo-Europeans, for example R2 or R1b1a2 (R-V88). R-V88 is the farthest thing from Indo-Europeans and associating haplogroups with languages is very faulty. Instead, say R-Z2103 is Indo-European, R-P312 is Celtic etc.. not otherwise.

Yes, but the other way around is correct: IndoEuropeans exist wherever R exists, because the first speakers of IndoEuropean were majority R.

Of course haplogroup R is older than the IndoEuropean languages, and some of the haplogroup R did never speak or adopt IndoEuropean, but those folks are few and far between each other. The vast majority of the R haplogroup still speaks IndoEuropean into our days.

[Livin]

Why shouldn't I like it? I have been classified as a Borreby in this very website, thus I am closer to the ANE than most Greeks anyway.

The association of the R haplogroup with the IndoEuropeans and not the Turanids remains an undisputed fact in scientific circles.

You are gorid/alpine not borreby.Those who classified you as such are idiots.Second where exactly i wrote that indoeuropeans were turanids?Read carefully what i wrote.


R lineages were siberian hunter gatherers in modern siberia.GENETICALLY they were ANE witch is the component that connects modern europeans with native americans.To make it more simple to you these carriers from siberia were half altaic and half uralic.

Altaics and Uralics don't differ at all.They split probably from a common ancestor thousands of years before.And again the term indoeuropean is something very late.When these mammoth HG from siberia witch they had R linages expanded to eastern europe and caucasus absording EHG and CHG.This is how indoeuropeans created.

They are a mix of ANE(R) EHG(I1+12) AND CHG(J2).

I didn't tell you that you are turkish rofl.But if you have indoeuropean ancestry then you probably got some ANE admixture witch is obvious in any european population more or less depends also the group and individual.

[NPKTO]

You are gorid/alpine not borreby.Those who classified you as such are idiots.Second where exactly i wrote that indoeuropeans were turanids?Read carefully what i wrote.


R lineages were siberian hunter gatherers in modern siberia.GENETICALLY they were ANE witch is the component that connects modern europeans with native americans.To make it more simple to you these carriers from siberia were half altaic and half uralic.

Altaics and Uralics don't differ at all.They split probably from a common ancestor thousands of years before.And again the term indoeuropean is something very late.When these mammoth HG from siberia witch they had R linages expanded to eastern europe and caucasus absording EHG and CHG.This is how indoeuropeans created.

They are a mix of ANE(R) EHG(I1+12) AND CHG(J2).

I didn't tell you that you are turkish rofl.But if you have indoeuropean ancestry then you probably got some ANE admixture witch is obvious in any european population more or less depends also the group and individual.
CHG is 50% ANE.

[Livin]

Why shouldn't I like it? I have been classified as a Borreby in this very website, thus I am closer to the ANE than most Greeks anyway.

The association of the R haplogroup with the IndoEuropeans and not the Turanids remains an undisputed fact in scientific circles.

This is how old R lineagers looked like before absord EHG AND CHG.

86161


The girl is ANE admixted and the man is typical/classic NEOLITHIC FARMER.

[Livin]

CHG is 50% ANE.


This is totally crap.No1 from genetics mention anything like this.

CHG is closer to natufians and basal eurasian than any other component.

[NPKTO]

This is totally crap.No1 from genetics mention anything like this.

CHG is closer to natufians and basal eurasian than any other component.
CHG is 50% Basal 50% ANE. Anatolian Farmer (Barcin) is 50% Basal 50% Villabruna like.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=1145986956

[Livin]

CHG is 50% Basal 50% ANE. Anatolian Farmer (Barcin) is 50% Basal 50% Villabruna like.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=1145986956

You are a little bit confused.

CHG originated somewhere in modern Iran and moved to Caucasus and created the Kura-Araxes culture.Their resent ANE ancestry is because they mixed later with indoeuropeans.Modern north caucasusians have high ANE admixture due to mixing with steppe populations.It was not absent before.


Actually CHG still remains a mystery.Its not even 100% close to Basal.

https://adnaera.com/2018/09/21/paleolithic-dna-from-the-caucasus-reveals-core-of-west-eurasian-ancestry-lazaridis-et-al-2018-preprint/

[Livin]

CHG is 50% Basal 50% ANE. Anatolian Farmer (Barcin) is 50% Basal 50% Villabruna like.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=1145986956

Anatolian Farmers were mostly Basal + 20% WHG.

[NPKTO]

You are a little bit confused.

CHG originated somewhere in modern Iran and moved to Caucasus and created the Kura-Araxes culture.Their resent ANE ancestry is because they mixed later with indoeuropeans.Modern north caucasusians have high ANE admixture due to mixing with steppe populations.It was not absent before.


Actually CHG still remains a mystery.Its not even 100% close to Basal.

https://adnaera.com/2018/09/21/paleolithic-dna-from-the-caucasus-reveals-core-of-west-eurasian-ancestry-lazaridis-et-al-2018-preprint/
Even Iranian Neolithic is close to 50% ANE. CHG predates Indo European & Kura Araxes (13000 YBP). While it did have some input from EHG, but it is very close to Iranian Neolithic. On the other hand, Natufians & Anatolian Neolithic Farmers have different formation. After Neolithic there was movement of people & everyone got mixed in that region.

[Livin]

Even Iranian Neolithic is close to 50% ANE. CHG predates Indo European & Kura Araxes (13000 YBP). While it did have some input from EHG, but it is very close to Iranian Neolithic. On the other hand, Natufians & Anatolian Neolithic Farmers have different formation. After Neolithic there was movement of people & everyone got mixed in that region.

These things happened much later.CHG is a combination of 2 ancestral populations that mixed up in modern probably IRAN/CAUCASUS.They are distant from ANE/ENA and Basal/natufian like people.

There are many theories but genetistics didn't mention anything like you saying.

ANE is closer with ENA and much different from basal eurasian and other west eurasian components.ANE/ENA might also have a connection to modern south asians but definetly nothing to do with CHG.Becasue this component was absent when the creation of CHG happened.

[Dorian]

You are gorid/alpine not borreby.Those who classified you as such are idiots.Second where exactly i wrote that indoeuropeans were turanids?Read carefully what i wrote.


R lineages were siberian hunter gatherers in modern siberia.GENETICALLY they were ANE witch is the component that connects modern europeans with native americans.To make it more simple to you these carriers from siberia were half altaic and half uralic.

Altaics and Uralics don't differ at all.They split probably from a common ancestor thousands of years before.And again the term indoeuropean is something very late.When these mammoth HG from siberia witch they had R linages expanded to eastern europe and caucasus absording EHG and CHG.This is how indoeuropeans created.

They are a mix of ANE(R) EHG(I1+12) AND CHG(J2).

I didn't tell you that you are turkish rofl.But if you have indoeuropean ancestry then you probably got some ANE admixture witch is obvious in any european population more or less depends also the group and individual.

Do you believe alpines come through this ANE admixture?therefore supporting the theory of fyletikas tards?

[Livin]

Do you believe alpines come through this ANE admixture?therefore supporting the theory of fyletikas tards?

Token witch is the most knowledge person on anthropology said that alpines introduced with indoeuropeans and that they were the major element among bell beakers.I agree with him and IMO brachycephaly in europe come with the steppe people.

Europe before the bronze age and the expansion of indoeruopeans were very meso-dolichocephalic because they were mostly WHG and farmers live side to side.


Alpine,Dinarid etc are probably progress of CHG mixed with ANE etc.So the malakas from fyletika might have right.

[Dorian]

Token witch is the most knowledge person on anthropology said that alpines introduced with indoeuropeans and that they were the major element among bell beakers.I agree with him and IMO brachycephaly in europe come with the steppe people.

Europe before the bronze age and the expansion of indoeruopeans were very meso-dolichocephalic because they were mostly WHG and farmers live side to side.


Alpine,Dinarid etc are probably progress of CHG mixed with ANE etc.So the malakas from fyletika might have right.

Great stuff,I'll have to dig these deeper at some point to make some guesses about all the phenotypes and their correlation along with ydnas etc ,it'd be fun.

[Petros Houhoulis]

You are gorid/alpine not borreby.Those who classified you as such are idiots.

Let me put it another way then. I have been mistaken even for a Norwegian once. The Turks were desperate to prove that I am Turk. In any case, I belong to the Northern element within Greece, whether that is gorid/alpine or borreby.


Second where exactly i wrote that indoeuropeans were turanids?Read carefully what i wrote.

I never said you claimed such a thing. This is what the canine is promoting, and I'm glad that you openly disagree with him.


R lineages were siberian hunter gatherers in modern siberia. GENETICALLY they were ANE witch is the component that connects modern europeans with native americans.To make it more simple to you these carriers from siberia were half altaic and half uralic.

Altaic and Uralic are language classifications, not genetic. We are talking about haplogroups, haplogroup R in specific. Can you show me any predominantly R population which is speaking any Altaic or Uralic languages? There aren't that many for sure. Altaic is connected to C3 which exists in all Altaic speakers from Turkey to Japan, while Uralic is still majority N everywhere except Hungary.


Altaics and Uralics don't differ at all.

Again, these terms are linguistic, not genetic. An Uralic speaker in Hungary bares no resemblance to a an Altaic speaker in Japan, assuming that the Altaic macrofamily of languages exist.


They split probably from a common ancestor thousands of years before. And again the term indoeuropean is something very late.When these mammoth HG from siberia witch they had R linages expanded to eastern europe and caucasus absording EHG and CHG.This is how indoeuropeans created.

They are a mix of ANE(R) EHG(I1+12) AND CHG(J2).

I didn't tell you that you are turkish rofl.But if you have indoeuropean ancestry then you probably got some ANE admixture witch is obvious in any european population more or less depends also the group and individual.

No disagreement with the Asian origin of the IndoEuropeans, or the late creation of the IndoEuropean languages. What I am trying to say is that the Indoeuropeans did not split out of any Turanic speaking population as the canine pretends, either because the IndoEuropean language is older than the Altaic languages, or because the Altaic languages are nothing more than a corruption of Chinese.

[Petros Houhoulis]

This is how old R lineagers looked like before absord EHG AND CHG.

86161


The girl is ANE admixted and the man is typical/classic NEOLITHIC FARMER.

Very well, but this doesn't tell me what language she spoke, and I wouldn't classify her as a Turanid either. Turan was further east... much later in time.. and in the shadow of the Mongols.

[Crimson Winds]

An Uralic speaker in Hungary bares no resemblance to a an Altaic speaker in Japan, assuming that the Altaic macrofamily of languages exist.


No. It doesn't. Even Uralic is being questioned by many linguists right now.

[Livin]

Very well, but this doesn't tell me what language she spoke, and I wouldn't classify her as a Turanid either. Turan was further east... much later in time.. and in the shadow of the Mongols.

I didnt said she is Turanid. She is uralic and definetly not white caucasoid.

Languange dosnt matter.Component is the most important. She is clearly ANE admixture.

[sailormoon]

".. the Ket, an isolated population that speaks a Yeniseian language and which has previously been described as rich in ANE-ancestry and with genetic links to Paleoeskimos. ..... Our findings therefore reconcile the proposed linguistic link between the Yeniseian speaking Ket and Na-Dene speaking Athabascan populations."


The Kets have the highest degree of the Mal’ta ancestry and the ANE component was acquired by ancestors of Kets in the Altai region, where the Bronze Age Okunevo culture existed. ANE contributed 30–40% to the gene pool of Native Americans and about 50% to the Yamnaya in the Pontic-Caspian steppe. The ANE language, which was spoken by MA-1 and his contemporaries in Siberia, is likely to be ancestral to the Proto-Indo-European and Native American languages and they shared some common grammatical rules. For instance, the earliest Indo-European languages had only two grammatical genders, animate and inanimate, which is similar to Native American languages.

https://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/summer96/BRANCH.JPG

[Proto-Shaman]

The Kets have the highest degree of the Mal’ta ancestry and the ANE component was acquired by ancestors of Kets in the Altai region, where the Bronze Age Okunevo culture existed. ANE contributed 30–40% to the gene pool of Native Americans and about 50% to the Yamnaya in the Pontic-Caspian steppe.
The bastardization already began here.


The ANE language, which was spoken by MA-1 and his contemporaries in Siberia, is likely to be ancestral to the Proto-Indo-European and Native American languages and they shared some common grammatical rules. For instance, the earliest Indo-European languages had only two grammatical genders, animate and inanimate, which is similar to Native American languages.
"...the linguistic evidence from our family does not lead us beyond Gimbutas’ secondary homeland and that the Khvalynsk culture on the middle Volga and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus cannot be identified with the Indo-Europeans. Any proposal which goes beyond the Sredny Stog culture must start from the possible affinities of Indo-European with other language families. It is usually recognized that the best candidate in this respect is the Uralic language family, while further connections with the Altaic languages and perhaps even Dravidian are possible... What we do have to take into account is the typological similarity of Proto-Indo-European to the North-West Caucasian (i.e. Adyg) languages. If this similarity can be attributed to areal factors, we may think of Indo-European as a branch of Uralo-Altaic which was transformed under the influence of a Caucasian substratum. It now appears that this view is actually supported by the archaeological evidence. If it is correct, we may locate the earliest (Uralo-Altaic) ancestors of the speakers of Proto-Indo-European north of the Caspian Sea in the seventh millennium."

[F.Kortlandt, Journal of Indo-European Studies, Volume 18, 1990, p.131 (https://kortlandt.nl/publications/art111e.pdf)]

There is no common ancestor between us. PIE can only be regarded as a bastard language among language families. The result is Petros Houlhoulis epileptical attack.