East Slavonia Bronze Age Sample from Vučedol culture (R1b Z2103 / L23)

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Kudos to Peterski for uploading it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Dedol_culture

https://www.slavorum.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/KartaP.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Vucedol_culture_map.png/800px-Vucedol_culture_map.png

The Vučedol culture (Croatian: Vučedolska kultura) flourished between 3000 and 2200 BC (the Eneolithic period of earliest copper-smithing), centered in Syrmia and eastern Slavonia on the right bank of the Danube river, but possibly spreading throughout the Pannonian plain and western Balkans and southward..

Following the Baden culture, another wave of possible Indo-European speakers came to the banks of the Danube. One of the major places they occupied is present-day Vučedol ("Wolf's Valley"), located six kilometers downstream from the town of Vukovar, Croatia. It is estimated that the site had once been home to about 3,000 inhabitants, making it one of the largest and most important European centers of its time.

According to Bogdan Brukner, proto-Illyrians descended from this wave of Indo-European settlers.


Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

1 North_Atlantic 31.01
2 West_Med 28.48
3 East_Med 15
4 West_Asian 13.66
5 Baltic 8.97
6 Red_Sea 2.66
7 Oceanian 0.18
8 Amerindian 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

1 North_Italian 7.92
2 Tuscan 10.81
3 Spanish_Andalucia 11.2
4 Spanish_Extremadura 11.37
5 Portuguese 12.51
6 Spanish_Murcia 13.02
7 Spanish_Galicia 13.08
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.14
9 Spanish_Valencia 13.28
10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.52
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 13.88
12 Spanish_Cantabria 14.72
13 Italian_Abruzzo 15.22
14 Spanish_Aragon 15.66
15 West_Sicilian 15.88
16 Southwest_French 16.07
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.84
18 French 17.23
19 Romanian 18.45
20 Central_Greek 18.66

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 71.9% Southwest_French + 28.1% Armenian @ 3.52
2 80.7% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.3% Georgian @ 3.66
3 81.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.4% Abhkasian @ 3.71
4 79% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21% Abhkasian @ 4.2
5 79.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.4% Adygei @ 4.22
6 73.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 26.1% Armenian @ 4.26
7 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Abhkasian @ 4.28
8 78.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21.9% Georgian @ 4.28
9 75.7% Spanish_Aragon + 24.3% Abhkasian @ 4.37
10 79.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.2% Ossetian @ 4.38
11 74.6% Spanish_Aragon + 25.4% Georgian @ 4.39
12 75.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.1% Georgian @ 4.41
13 80.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.7% North_Ossetian @ 4.43
14 79.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.8% Balkar @ 4.44
15 72.8% Southwest_French + 27.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.54
16 79.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.7% Kabardin @ 4.59
17 62.3% French_Basque + 37.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.6
18 75.3% Southwest_French + 24.7% Abhkasian @ 4.63
19 74.2% Southwest_French + 25.8% Georgian @ 4.74
20 78.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 21.2% Kumyk @ 4.8

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Atlantic 25.55
2 West_Med 22.95
3 North_Sea 16.74
4 West_Asian 14.6
5 East_Med 11.36
6 Baltic 3.48
7 Red_Sea 2.79
8 Eastern_Euro 2.41
9 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

1 North_Italian 8.48
2 Spanish_Andalucia 10.72
3 Spanish_Extremadura 11.01
4 Tuscan 11.07
5 Portuguese 11.67
6 Spanish_Murcia 11.72
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 11.84
8 Spanish_Cataluna 12.06
9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.2
10 Spanish_Valencia 12.23
11 Spanish_Galicia 12.66
12 Spanish_Cantabria 13.28
13 Spanish_Aragon 13.78
14 Southwest_French 14.8
15 Italian_Abruzzo 15.8
16 French 16.04
17 West_Sicilian 16.9
18 Greek_Thessaly 17.86
19 Greek 17.89
20 Bulgarian 18.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 78.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 21.2% Abhkasian @ 4.27
2 77.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 22.5% Georgian @ 4.28
3 81% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 19% Abhkasian @ 4.58
4 76.9% Spanish_Aragon + 23.1% Georgian @ 4.61
5 78.2% Spanish_Aragon + 21.8% Abhkasian @ 4.62
6 79.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.1% Georgian @ 4.62
7 83% Spanish_Andalucia + 17% Abhkasian @ 4.81
8 81.9% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.1% Georgian @ 4.86
9 81% Spanish_Andalucia + 19% Ossetian @ 5.04
10 75.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.4% Armenian @ 5.06
11 79.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.9% Ossetian @ 5.23
12 82.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 5.27
13 76% Spanish_Aragon + 24% Ossetian @ 5.32
14 80.9% Spanish_Valencia + 19.1% Abhkasian @ 5.34
15 79.8% Spanish_Valencia + 20.2% Georgian @ 5.43
16 81.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 18.1% Georgian @ 5.49
17 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Ossetian @ 5.53
18 81.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.8% Adygei @ 5.54
19 81.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.2% North_Ossetian @ 5.54
20 80.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.2% Balkar @ 5.6


https://i.imgur.com/SItLIkm.png

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Very similar to Bronze Age Dalmatians. Looks like bronze age Croatia was genetically homogenous, from Danubian Valley in northeast where this sample is from down to dinaric Alps in southwest
where other samples are from.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Some artifacts from Vučedol culture museum in Vukovar, Croatia.

https://www.slavorum.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/golubica4.jpg
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/c1/b5/58/vucedol-culture-museum.jpg
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/09/c1/b5/12/vucedol-culture-museum.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGj8Eq9W0AAwTdF.jpg
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Emilia_Pasztor/publication/278650247/figure/fig3/AS:396075585294340@1471443186653/Characteristic-bowls-of-the-Vucedol-culture-Durman-2000-Fig-57-and-58.png
http://www.panonatours.com/upload/images/2013_03_28_19_3941712_b.jpg

Settlement reconstruction:

https://croatia.hr/sites/default/files/styles/image_full_width/public/2018-03/1_muzej-vucedolske-kulture-bojan-haron-markicevic.jpg?itok=KRbpIPP_

Museum today:

https://www.croatiaweek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/37030233_917071391812687_1558046463760531456_o.jpg

[Ayetooey]

Nice, whats the code bro?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Oldest Indo-European calendar was discovered in Vučedol site.

ZAGREB, March 25, 2018 - Forty years ago, during an archaeological dig that accompanied the construction of a hotel in the eastern Croatian town of Vinkovci, a team of archaeologists led by Aleksandar Durman from Zagreb's Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences unearthed a damaged pot with engraved astrological motifs, dated between 2800 and 2600 BC, and the lead archaeologist has later realised that it is the oldest European and Indo-European calendar, known as the Orion.

"The Orion vessel belongs to the Vučedol culture where the year began on the first day of spring, and that's how it was until Julius Cesar added two months," Durman told Hina.

At the time of the Vučedol culture, the year began at dusk on the first day of spring when the three stars in the Belt of Orion, the dominant winter constellation, sank under the horizon for several months and were symbolically replaced by the Sun. "This is no longer the case because Orion disappears 50 days later due to the change in precession," Durman said.

According to Durman, the engraved ornaments on the Orion vessel represent typical constellations in the night sky over Vinkovci, which lies on the 45th parallel north, in all four seasons.

The vessel was found among other artefacts on the site of the present-day Hotel Slavonija on March 21, 1978, and stayed in a depot until 1985 when another vessel with engraved constellations was found during an archaeological dig at Vucedol, near Vukovar.

"It was only then that I realised what we had actually found in Vinkovci," Durman said, adding that Vinkovci had been settled for over 8,300 years, which made it the oldest settlement in Europe. He said that there was evidence of the first serial production of metal objects dating from 2800 BC and that the Vučedol culture had also produced the first bronze object in the world.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/lifestyle/26928-40-years-ago-oldest-indo-european-calendar-was-discovered-in-croatia

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Nice, whats the code bro?

I3499 Vucedol R1b - kit number JM8436604

[Ryuk]

He seems a Celtic+Med mix

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

He seems a Celtic+Med mix

He was ancestor of Illyrians. No Celts in Slavonia at that time and he has typical Balkan type of R1b.
Vučedol descend from Yamnaya incomers from steppe who blended with older neolithic population in Slavonia and and created proto-Illyrians.
Than they spreaded south to dinaric zone and east Adriatic coast.

[Ayetooey]

I match all 3 Dalmatian ones on default but get nothing on this guy without lowering SNP. Interesting.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I match all 3 Dalmatian ones on default but get nothing on this guy without lowering SNP. Interesting.

I'm really suprised how similar they are. Dalmatians are even bit more northern shifted, probably because there was less dense pre-IE farmer population in dinaric alps compared to fertile Panonnian plain.

[Kamal900]

Man, the Slavs really have changed the genetic landscape of the Balkans.

[Ayetooey]

I'm really suprised how similar they are. Dalmatians are even bit more northern shifted, probably because they was less dense pre-IE farmer population in dinaric alps compared to fertile Panonnian plain.

Yeah all 3 of the Dalmatian ones were North-West shifted compared to this guy; makes sense as you say because it's a rocky region and not as suitable to farm in. Would be interesting to see how the pre slavic individuals looked later on in time, from 500bc onwards, especially considering the heavy Celtic migrations that took place. Hopefully more samples pop up.

[Ryuk]

He was ancestor of Illyrians. No Celts in Slavonia at that time and he has typical Balkan type of R1b.
Vučedol descend from Yamnaya incomers from steppe who blended with older neolithic population in Slavonia and and created proto-Illyrians.
Than they spreaded south to dinaric zone and east Adriatic coast.

I looked at this a genetic perspective. Celts had high Atlantic and North Sea and Mediterrenians had Meds.
I tried to simplify the results, otherwise I know that there were no Celts in that period.

[Leto]

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:

Kit JM8436604

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 44.9
2 NE_Europe 25.45
3 West_Asia 18.57
4 SW_Asia 8.66
5 Americas 1.71
6 Oceania 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Tuscan 5
2 Italian_Bergamo 6.73
3 Albanian 7.35
4 Greek_Thessaly 7.56
5 Kosovar 7.79
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.01
7 Macedonian 10.97
8 Greek_Central 11.29
9 Bulgarian 11.45
10 Spaniard 12.66
11 Ashkenazy_Jew 13.72
12 Italian_Sicilian 14.03
13 Montenegrin 14.17
14 Romanian 14.81
15 Serbian 15.7
16 Sephardic_Jew 18.04
17 French 18.47
18 Bosnian 19.5
19 French_Basque 20
20 Croatian 20.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% French_Basque + 35.8% Armenian @ 2.43
2 64.8% French_Basque + 35.2% Assyrian @ 2.72
3 63.8% French_Basque + 36.2% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.07
4 59.1% French_Basque + 40.9% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.27
5 85.7% Italian_Bergamo + 14.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.37
6 62.6% French_Basque + 37.4% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 3.37
7 74% Spaniard + 26% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.41
8 70.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.6% French_Basque @ 3.54
9 56.8% French_Basque + 43.2% Turkish @ 3.55
10 82.1% Italian_Bergamo + 17.9% Cypriot @ 3.55
11 64.8% Greek_Central + 35.2% French_Basque @ 3.58
12 70.5% Italian_Bergamo + 29.5% Italian_Sicilian @ 3.6
13 65.4% French_Basque + 34.6% Kurdish @ 3.66
14 59.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.2% French_Basque @ 3.76
15 63.6% French_Basque + 36.4% Abkhasian @ 3.78
16 70.4% Italian_Bergamo + 29.6% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 3.84
17 59.6% Italian_Bergamo + 40.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.85
18 86.5% Italian_Bergamo + 13.5% Armenian @ 3.86
19 86.9% Italian_Bergamo + 13.1% Assyrian @ 3.94
20 85.8% Italian_Bergamo + 14.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.09

[North Sea]

This sample is not too far away from Albanians , its just more western shifted. Seems some West Euro shifts these samples West.

Bronze Age from Montenegro was plotting more East

[Bosniensis]

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:



Nice sample

Puntdanal 13 Global

Mine

1 NE_Europe 41.51
2 SW_Europe 31.79
3 West_Asia 14.72

vs East Slavonia

1 SW_Europe 44.9
2 NE_Europe 25.45
3 West_Asia 18.57

There are noticable differences but similarities as well.

This is obviously Southern admixed person like modern Macedonians, Northern Greeks
but there is no doubt that we share a lot with these people by having similar Autosomal admixture.

[North Sea]

puntDNAL K13 Global Oracle results:

Kit JM8436604

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Europe 44.9
2 NE_Europe 25.45
3 West_Asia 18.57
4 SW_Asia 8.66
5 Americas 1.71
6 Oceania 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Italian_Tuscan 5
2 Italian_Bergamo 6.73
3 Albanian 7.35
4 Greek_Thessaly 7.56
5 Kosovar 7.79
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.01
7 Macedonian 10.97
8 Greek_Central 11.29
9 Bulgarian 11.45
10 Spaniard 12.66
11 Ashkenazy_Jew 13.72
12 Italian_Sicilian 14.03
13 Montenegrin 14.17
14 Romanian 14.81
15 Serbian 15.7
16 Sephardic_Jew 18.04
17 French 18.47
18 Bosnian 19.5
19 French_Basque 20
20 Croatian 20.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% French_Basque + 35.8% Armenian @ 2.43
2 64.8% French_Basque + 35.2% Assyrian @ 2.72
3 63.8% French_Basque + 36.2% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.07
4 59.1% French_Basque + 40.9% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.27
5 85.7% Italian_Bergamo + 14.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.37
6 62.6% French_Basque + 37.4% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 3.37
7 74% Spaniard + 26% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.41
8 70.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.6% French_Basque @ 3.54
9 56.8% French_Basque + 43.2% Turkish @ 3.55
10 82.1% Italian_Bergamo + 17.9% Cypriot @ 3.55
11 64.8% Greek_Central + 35.2% French_Basque @ 3.58
12 70.5% Italian_Bergamo + 29.5% Italian_Sicilian @ 3.6
13 65.4% French_Basque + 34.6% Kurdish @ 3.66
14 59.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.2% French_Basque @ 3.76
15 63.6% French_Basque + 36.4% Abkhasian @ 3.78
16 70.4% Italian_Bergamo + 29.6% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 3.84
17 59.6% Italian_Bergamo + 40.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.85
18 86.5% Italian_Bergamo + 13.5% Armenian @ 3.86
19 86.9% Italian_Bergamo + 13.1% Assyrian @ 3.94
20 85.8% Italian_Bergamo + 14.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.09

So I was right, ilyrians were similar people :D


Its plotting similar to me and some Albanians only this is more west, compare my results :D


1 Italian_Tuscan 3.36
2 Albanian4.63
3 Kosovar4.77
4Greek_Thessaly5.42
5Italian_Bergamo5.99
6Macedonian6.05
7Bulgarian6.38
8Montenegrin9.33
9Romanian9.47
10Italian_Abruzzo9.94
11Serbian10.76
12Greek_Central10.77
13Spaniard11.63
14Ashkenazy_Jew14.55
15Bosnian14.74
16French15.14
17Italian_Sicilian15.39
18Croatian15.85
19Moldavian17.02
20German_South17.73






Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance177%Spaniard+23%Iranian@2.05274.1% Spaniard+25.9%Azerbaijan_Azeri@2.06374.5%Spaniard+ 25.5%Dagestan_Azeri@2.08476.2%Spaniard+23.8%Kurdis h@2.09590.2%Italian_Bergamo+9.8%Makrani@2.26674%Sp aniard+26%Ossetian@2.38783.8%Albanian+16.2%French_ Basque@2.39889.4%Italian_Bergamo+10.6%Pathan@2.497 5%Spaniard+25%Abkhasian@2.441086.9%Italian_Bergamo +13.1%Tadjik@2.441188.7%Italian_Bergamo+11.3%Afgha n_Pashtun@2.441290.3%Italian_Bergamo+9.7%Brahui@2. 441374.3%Albanian+25.7%Spaniard@2.441482.6%Italian _Bergamo+17.4%Turkish_Aydin@2.451590%Italian_Berga mo+10%Balochi@2.481687.6%Italian_Bergamo+12.4%Iran ian@2.481770.3%Greek_Thessaly+29.7%Spaniard@2.5118 58.3%Albanian+41.7%Italian_Bergamo@2.521997%Italia n_Tuscan+3%Cambodian@2.532097.2%Italian_Tuscan+2.8 %Mawasi@2.57



Its Ydna is also typical Albanian

[North Sea]

Man, the Slavs really have changed the genetic landscape of the Balkans.

how so ? its just a bronze age sample , they arent 100% represantive of pre slavic examples. bronze age from montenegro was more east. but you can clearly see these samples are identical to us. bronze age from bulgaria were like north europeans compared. Albanians havent been affected much by slavs if anything.

[Kamal900]

how so ? its just a bronze age sample , they arent 100% represantive of pre slavic examples. bronze age from montenegro was more east. but you can clearly see these samples are identical to us. bronze age from bulgaria were like north europeans compared. Albanians havent been affected much by slavs if anything.

I know that Albanians are genetically very closely related to the paleo-Balkan peoples. I was talking about how Slavs had mixed and assimilated most of the natives of the Balkans. Albanians are the only ones I believe that haven't been affected by them in terms of genetics.

[North Sea]

I know that Albanians are genetically very closely related to the paleo-Balkan peoples. I was talking about how Slavs had mixed and assimilated most of the natives of the Balkans. Albanians are the only ones I believe that haven't been affected by them in terms of genetics.

Yeah I agree . This sample isn't too far away from us. Its K13 puntdnal results are almost identical to mine. Rather surprised how close it is. Thought it would be more North.


You can clearly see South Slavs have Slavic ancestry while Albanians are more Italian shifted like these samples.

[Moje ime]

Does someone matching this on Gedmatch Genesis with default SNP? I don't.

[Pribislav]

I know that Albanians are genetically very closely related to the paleo-Balkan peoples. I was talking about how Slavs had mixed and assimilated most of the natives of the Balkans. Albanians are the only ones I believe that haven't been affected by them in terms of genetics.

Albanians have Slavic influence.

Only people in the Balkans without Slavic input are Greek islanders.

[Peterski]

Not all Vucedol samples were R1b, just a minority.

Maybe I will upload also the one who was G2a.

[Ayetooey]

Not all Vucedol samples were R1b, just a minority.

Maybe I will upload also the one who was G2a.

What were the other Y dna's?

[North Sea]

Pre-Slavic people were like Tuscans basically.

[Adam Janossy]

Pre-Slavic people were like Tuscans basically.

In Croatia like North Italians. But in other countries they were different.

[North Sea]

In Croatia like North Italians. But in other countries they were different.

Bronze Age weren't really that different in other countries except in Bulgaria which were more north. Those samples found in Bulgaria in Iron Age date to much later. I don't think they are comparable due to very different time frames. But Iron Age samples from there were also more or less like Tuscans / Italians. Bronze Age from Bulgaria were like North Europeans compared. Gives you an example of how much they changed there from Bronze Age to Iron Age.

They should find late Iron Age samples in West Balkans to compare. I think pre Slavic Balkan people were like Tuscans/North Italians and South Italians, East of them maybe. I dont think Bronze Age samples are evidence of what pre Slavic people were like but these give you a good idea.. You need to find samples much later llike those found in Bulgaria from 500 BC.


This one is like North Italians / Tuscans . I plot East from this sample. East of North Italy. It almost has the same puntdnal k13 results as me. But its more West. Bronze Age in Montenegro was more East. Because it scored North Slavic which shifted it more East which is probably EHG like ancestry which is probably what made us more East. While these score more West European.


These samples plot where they plot because they score West Europe which is shifting them West , because they actually arent closer to Italians than a modern Albanian or even Bronze Age from Montenegro found years ago. If it wasnt for that these samples would plot where I plot more or less.

[North Sea]

Other samples from Dalmatia were actually more North and West than this one ,

[Hulu]

Other samples from Dalmatia were actually more North and West than this one ,

Yeah, this one is very similar to you and the ydna typical Albanian clade.


I don't match on default but this is what I get on 50 snp-1cm

Largest segment = 3.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 84.7 cM (2.378 Pct)

53 shared segments found for this comparison.

148553 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.075 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Moje ime]

Yeah, this one is very similar to you and the ydna typical Albanian clade.


I don't match on default but this is what I get on 50 snp-1cm

Largest segment = 3.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 84.7 cM (2.378 Pct)

53 shared segments found for this comparison.

148553 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.075 Pct SNPs are full identical

I get similar on 50 SNP

Largest segment = 3.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 74.9 cM (2.102 Pct)

45 shared segments found for this comparison.

141062 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.360 Pct SNPs are full identical


But that is nothing important.

[Bosniensis]

I get similar on 50 SNP

Largest segment = 3.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 74.9 cM (2.102 Pct)

45 shared segments found for this comparison.

141062 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.360 Pct SNPs are full identical


But that is nothing important.

How much you get on 1 Snp :D

[Moje ime]

How much you get on 1 Snp :D

Doesn't work under 25 SNP.

Post your results.

[Bosniensis]

Doesn't work under 25 SNP.

Post your results.

Largest segment = 3.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 77.4 cM (2.173 Pct)

47 shared segments found for this comparison.

140481 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.441 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Moje ime]

So according to results as much as distant they are I'm matching the sample the most. :cool:

[North Sea]

Yeah, this one is very similar to you and the ydna typical Albanian clade.


I don't match on default but this is what I get on 50 snp-1cm

Largest segment = 3.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 84.7 cM (2.378 Pct)

53 shared segments found for this comparison.

148553 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.075 Pct SNPs are full identical

This is what I got :P although I don't really trust these things that much. I think they need to be edited to match.



Largest segment = 3.2 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 113.0 cM (3.170 Pct)

66 shared segments found for this comparison.

145170 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.323 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Skerdilaid]

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 67.2 cM (1.887 Pct)

27 shared segments found for this comparison.


148393 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.153 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.305 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.032 cpu seconds.







This sample’s y-dna was Z2103/Z2105 (CTS9219-, L584- and PF331-)

[Moje ime]

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 67.2 cM (1.887 Pct)

27 shared segments found for this comparison.


148393 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.153 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.305 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.032 cpu seconds.







This sample’s y-dna was Z2103/Z2105 (CTS9219-, L584- and PF331-)

SNP?

[Skerdilaid]

SNP?

Who cares? He is my long lost cousin paternally speaking, that probably didn’t get much laid :p

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Not all Vucedol samples were R1b, just a minority.

Maybe I will upload also the one who was G2a.

These G dudes were already there when Yamnaya R1b came and brought IE language. They probably belonged to neolithic Baden culture that preceeded and was absorbed by Vučedol.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Bronze Age weren't really that different in other countries except in Bulgaria which were more north. Those samples found in Bulgaria in Iron Age date to much later. I don't think they are comparable due to very different time frames. But Iron Age samples from there were also more or less like Tuscans / Italians. Bronze Age from Bulgaria were like North Europeans compared. Gives you an example of how much they changed there from Bronze Age to Iron Age.

They should find late Iron Age samples in West Balkans to compare. I think pre Slavic Balkan people were like Tuscans/North Italians and South Italians, East of them maybe. I dont think Bronze Age samples are evidence of what pre Slavic people were like but these give you a good idea.. You need to find samples much later llike those found in Bulgaria from 500 BC.

Yeah I agree. It's doubtful how representative bronze Age Bulgarian was since it was elite burial and his Y dna is practically extinct from modern Bulgarians and other Balkaners.
Especially since Iron Age Thracian was E and southern as fuck, much more southeastern than these Illyrians.

For Croatia we got stable picture, several samples from different regions and they are all quite similar with Y dna that is very common among modern Balkanites (especially non Slavic ones).
Later samples are needed to show possible Roman and Celtic or even Gothic genetic admixture.

In Iberia romanisation came with heavy Italian / East Med genetic contribution. Perhaps same happened in West Balkan when Illyrians and Celts were romanized. Perhaps not. We're still in the dark.

[Pribislav]

Yeah I agree. It's doubtful how representative bronze Age Bulgarian was since it was elite burial and his Y dna is practically extinct from modern Bulgarians and other Balkaners.
Especially since Iron Age Thracian was E and southern as fuck, much more southeastern than these Illyrians.

For Croatia we got stable picture, several samples from different regions and they are all quite similar with Y dna that is very common among modern Balkanites (especially non Slavic ones).
Later samples are needed to show possible Roman and Celtic or even Gothic genetic admixture.

In Iberia romanisation came with heavy Italian / East Med genetic contribution. Perhaps same happened in West Balkan when Illyrians and Celts were romanized. Perhaps not. We're still in the dark.

This was not real Thracian.

R1a-Z93 sample is real Thracian.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

This was not real Thracian.

R1a-Z93 sample is real Thracian.

No I disagree. Otherwise it means nobody in Balkans has Thracian blood. His haplogroup is almost non existant in Bulgaria. It was probably Srubnaya culture migrant.
Other thing is he has no connection with these Illyrians, and in reality they were very much connected.

[Bosniensis]

No I disagree. Otherwise it means nobody in Balkans has Thracian blood. His haplogroup is almost non existant in Bulgaria. It was probably Srubnaya culture migrant.
Other thing is he has no connection with these Illyrians, and in reality they were very much connected.

Pribi is like Albanian he just pull everything towards Russia where Albanians pull everything towards Albania xD xD xD

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Pribi is like Albanian he just pull everything towards Russia where Albanians pull everything towards Albania xD xD xD

It is pretty obvious Paleo-Balkanites were genetically southern European, just like early Greeks and Romans.

[Pribislav]

No I disagree. Otherwise it means nobody in Balkans has Thracian blood. His haplogroup is almost non existant in Bulgaria. It was probably Srubnaya culture migrant.
Other thing is he has no connection with these Illyrians, and in reality they were very much connected.

Almost not exist due to Roman genocide towards the Thracians, destruction of Thracian males in Roman arenas and in Roman legions, plagues in Roman time and middle age, Hunic, Gothic, Avar, Bulgar, Slavic and other invasions in late Roman period and early middle age.

I said on other thread and Romanian user inxulescu agree with me: Thracian existed before Romans, in Roman time they became only one component in soup created by Romans. Pre-Roman population of eastern Balkans was not same as polulation of eastern Balkans in Roman time genetically, racially and linguistically.

[Pribislav]

It is pretty obvious Paleo-Balkanites were genetically southern European, just like early Greeks and Romans.

Pre-Roman population of Balkans (minus Greeks) were more northern shifted.

In Roman time many Roman colonists, Anatolians and Levantines settled to Balkans and made Balkan population of Roman period more southern genetically than before Romans.

[Moje ime]

No I disagree. Otherwise it means nobody in Balkans has Thracian blood.

How's that when everybody match this sample on default value SNP, especially Bulgarians and Macedonians?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Pre-Roman population of Balkans (minus Greeks) were more northern shifted.

In Roman time many Roman colonists, Anatolians and Levantines settled to Balkans and made Balkan population of Roman period more southern genetically than before Romans.

Yes, more northern shifted like these ancient Croatians, not northern shifted as Russians and Swedes. That doesn't make any sense.
It is only one sample and distance to Iron Age samples is enormous so I am pretty sure he was big outlier.

[Bosniensis]

Pre-Roman population of Balkans (minus Greeks) were more northern shifted.

In Roman time many Roman colonists, Anatolians and Levantines settled to Balkans and made Balkan population of Roman period more southern genetically than before Romans.

Thracians and Illyrians were Western Mediterranean + Baltic mix unlike Greeks who were Eastern Mediterranean and Anatolian.

You have seen Geneplaza result from Peterski.

Thraco-Illyrians were mix of J2,I2a1, I2a2, E1b, R1a and R1b just like Today.

But R1a wasn't strong among them, those were settlers who came from steppes like traders, soldiers etc..

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

How's that when everybody match this sample on default value SNP, especially Bulgarians and Macedonians?

That's meaningless, I match it too and I have no Thracian blood.

[Moje ime]

That's meaningless, I match it too and I have no Thracian blood.

What is "Thracian blood"? I don't think it is meaningless, if it is meaningless then i don't know why we are checking these samples at all.

Btw I remember you don't match it but Dalmatian sample.

[Pribislav]

Yes, more northern shifted like these ancient Croatians, not northern shifted as Russians and Swedes. That doesn't make any sense.

Well, Thracian sample R1a-Z93 from Bulgaria is the closest to Swedes. He is genetically like 3/4 Swede and 1/4 Caucasian.

This have some sense www.osterholm.net/thracian.html

Are you aware in Roman empire racial mixing was almost like in Latin America?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

What is "Thracian blood"? I don't think it is meaningless, if it is meaningless then i don't know why we are checking these samples at all.

Btw I remember you don't match it but Dalmatian sample.

I match Bulgarian sample. Who gives a fuck about this autistic SNP sharing ?

Yeah, Iranic ydna dude who is genetically northern as fuck is Thracian, give me a break. What shifted modern Bulgarians so much south, Slavs ? :rolleyes:

If he was common Thracian there would be lot of his y dna descendants all over Eastern Balkans like we have them with Croatian samples, but they don't exist.

Iron Age Bulgaria is as different from him as Cyprus from Belarus.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Well, Thracian sample R1a-Z93 from Bulgaria is the closest to Swedes. He is genetically like 3/4 Swede and 1/4 Caucasian.

This have some sense www.osterholm.net/thracian.html

Are you aware in Roman empire racial mixing was almost like in Latin America?

Thracians were never extinct, they were just romanised. And they form big amount of modern Bulgarian genepool.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Another thing is modern Croats are much more northern genetically than modern Bulgarians. But BA Bulgaria was much more northern than BA Croatia lmao.
Reality is Thracians were more southeastern than Illyrians and similar to that Iron Age sample which perfectly fits modern Bulgarian genetics when combined with medieval Slavic input.

[Moje ime]

I match Bulgarian sample. Who gives a fuck about this autistic SNP sharing ?

Yeah, Iranic ydna dude who is genetically northern as fuck is Thracian, give me a break. What shifted modern Bulgarians so much south, Slavs ? :rolleyes:

If he was common Thracian there would be lot of his y dna descendants all over Eastern Balkans like we have them with Croatian samples, but they don't exist.

Iron Age Bulgaria is as different from him as Cyprus from Belarus.

Maybe he had daughters :)

He might been recent immigrant with northern shift but he mixed with some southern people and that shifted Bulgarians south. I believe north to south (Balkan) migrations were happening all time.

[IncelSlayer]

Well, Thracian sample R1a-Z93 from Bulgaria is the closest to Swedes. He is genetically like 3/4 Swede and 1/4 Caucasian.

This have some sense www.osterholm.net/thracian.html



No I disagree. Otherwise it means nobody in Balkans has Thracian blood. His haplogroup is almost non existant in Bulgaria. It was probably Srubnaya culture migrant.
Other thing is he has no connection with these Illyrians, and in reality they were very much connected.

You're wrong,R1a-Z93 is very existent in Romania,Bulgaria and Balkans, overall they make between 5-10%, and they are related even with the R1a-Z93 from Sweden,UK so Pribislav link is accurate.I see thracian people daily,usually they sit outside supermarkets or churches, some even have musical talent and you can occasionally hear them singing in buses or metro stations.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You're wrong,R1a-Z93 is very existent in Romania,Bulgaria and Balkans, overall they make between 5-10%, and they are related even with the R1a-Z93 from Sweden,UK so Pribislav link is accurate.I see thracian people daily,usually they sit outside supermarkets or churches, some even have musical talent and you can occasionally hear them singing in buses or metro stations.

You mean Gypsies, right ? :D

[Bosniensis]

You mean Gypsies, right ? :D

Romania is a state of Romani people

Romani = Romania xD xD xD xD xD xD

[Pribislav]

I match Bulgarian sample. Who gives a fuck about this autistic SNP sharing ?

Yeah, Iranic ydna dude who is genetically northern as fuck is Thracian, give me a break. What shifted modern Bulgarians so much south, Slavs ? :rolleyes:

If he was common Thracian there would be lot of his y dna descendants all over Eastern Balkans like we have them with Croatian samples, but they don't exist.

Iron Age Bulgaria is as different from him as Cyprus from Belarus.

Vlach pushed them to the south.
Don't confuse Vlachs with Thracians. Vlachs have very liitle connection with Thracians. Vlach dna is mostly from Roman colonists and Anatolian/Levantine settlers from Roman period, very liitle from Thracians. Because of that Vlachs were Greek and Southern Italian alike and not R1a-Z93 sample from Bulgaria alike.

Have you ever read "Katakterologija Jugoslovena" of Vladimir Dvorniković? If you read, than you know pre-Roman Illyrians/Thracians were mostly northern looking people and swartization of Balkanites happened in Roman time.

[HungryLion]

What is "Thracian blood"? I don't think it is meaningless, if it is meaningless then i don't know why we are checking these samples at all.

Btw I remember you don't match it but Dalmatian sample.

Bravo...

[HungryLion]

Some Serbian like Moje Ime is the closer to this sample..
This sample is more western and northen shifted than today population of greece and albania. Hard to explain why this sample is more northen shifted than population which today considered paleo balkans.

[Pribislav]

You mean Gypsies, right ? :D

Gypsies don't carry R1a-Z93.

Gypsies are descendants of Australoid Dravidians (H haplogroup) mixed with Middle Easterners (J and E), and not of Indo-Aryans (R1a-Z93).

Pro-Gypsies in India belonged to lowest caste Pariah ("untouchable").

[Moje ime]

Some Serbian like Moje Ime is the closer to this sample..
This sample is more western and northen shifted than today population of greece and albania. Hard to explain why this sample is more northen shifted than population which today considered paleo balkans.

Because it is Celtic sample and today rest of that genetic can be found in North-Western parts of Europe.

[Dick]

Some Serbian like Moje Ime is the closer to this sample..
This sample is more western and northen shifted than today population of greece and albania. Hard to explain why this sample is more northen shifted than population which today considered paleo balkans.

None of these paleo- Balkan samples fit into the Balkans geographically so far or with modern populations. here are two Mycenians.


https://i.imgur.com/NF8S6sw.png

[Dick]

anyway, is this the guy with Mtdna T2a? that seems like a rare mtdna in the Balkans?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Vlach pushed them to the south.
Don't confuse Vlachs with Thracians. Vlachs have very liitle connection with Thracians. Vlach dna is mostly from Roman colonists and Anatolian/Levantine settlers from Roman period, very liitle from Thracians. Because of that Vlachs were Greek and Southern Italian alike and not R1a-Z93 sample from Bulgaria alike.

Have you ever read "Katakterologija Jugoslovena" of Vladimir Dvorniković? If you read, than you know pre-Roman Illyrians/Thracians were mostly northern looking people and swartization of Balkanites happened in Roman time.

Vlach ydna is mostly native Balkan + Slavic and very little Italian (there is some but total minority) so your theory doesn't hold much water.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Some Serbian like Moje Ime is the closer to this sample..
This sample is more western and northen shifted than today population of greece and albania. Hard to explain why this sample is more northen shifted than population which today considered paleo balkans.

Because they are Paleo-Balkan ancestors of Croatians not southern Balkanites who were probably more southern shifted due to Greek influence.
Ancient Balkan was far from being genetically homogenous just like today.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Gypsies don't carry R1a-Z93.

Gypsies are descendants of Australoid Dravidians (H haplogroup) mixed with Middle Easterners (J and E), and not of Indo-Aryans (R1a-Z93).

Pro-Gypsies in India belonged to lowest caste Pariah ("untouchable").

They have more of that R1a than Europeans do. Nice, Cigan ancient Thracians :laugh:

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Because it is Celtic sample and today rest of that genetic can be found in North-Western parts of Europe.

None of these samples are Celtic.

[Dick]

I get similar on 50 SNP

Largest segment = 3.8 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 74.9 cM (2.102 Pct)

45 shared segments found for this comparison.

141062 SNPs used for this comparison.

53.360 Pct SNPs are full identical


But that is nothing important.
50 snp-1cm, nothing at default.

Largest segment = 4.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 141.2 cM (3.965 Pct)

87 shared segments found for this comparison.

150557 SNPs used for this comparison.

56.608 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Moje ime]

None of these samples are Celtic.

And what is it?

[Pubiczar]

Daddy

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

And what is it?

Illyrian obviously. Celts never lived in Dalmatia and they were not present in Vučedol either.

[HungryLion]

Because they are Paleo-Balkan ancestors of Croatians not southern Balkanites who were probably more southern shifted due to Greek influence.
Ancient Balkan was far from being genetically homogenous just like today.

In this way, we do not reveal anything significantly..
I am deeply convinced that there was an important northern-oriented ethnic group in the Balkans...

[Moje ime]

Illyrian obviously. Celts never lived in Dalmatia and they were not present in Vučedol either.

That doesn't mean Illyrians didn't have Celtic admixture, and Celtic admixture can be related to high north Atlantic admixture as this sample has.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

In this way, we do not reveal anything significantly..
I am deeply convinced that there was an important northern-oriented ethnic group in the Balkans...

Yes, Goths.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

That doesn't mean Illyrians didn't have Celtic admixture, and Celtic admixture can be related to high north Atlantic admixture as this sample has.

Well it looks like Illyrians were (south)western European genetically and shared some ancestry with Celts.

[Pribislav]

Vlach ydna is mostly native Balkan and very little Italian (there is some but total minority) so you theory doesn't hold much water.

Dude, all haplogoups except I2a1b, R1a and I1 in the Balkans are proclaimed for paleo-Balkan. Only God know which is amount of haplogroups/branches which arrived to the Balkans from Italy, Anatolia and Levant in Roman time.

If some haplogroup arrived to Balkan from Levant in 4th century they say by automatism paleo-Balkan, my ass paleo-Balkan which arrived in 4th century from Levant.
Haplogroup J2b1-M205 arrived to Balkan from Syria in 4th century. Some Syrian came to Balkans and broughted his y dna (he probably served in Roman legion in the Balkans). Vlach tribe Kriči (J2b1-M205) by paternal line are destendants of Syrian who came to Balkans in 4th century century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči
Similar story is about IncelSlayer's paternal ancient grandfather. Levantine guy who fucked native Balkan woman, maybe in the time when her husband was in Roman legions. In WW2 many Yugoslavians which were in labor camps in Germany fucked German women where their husbands were on fronts, some Germans looking for paternal relatives in Serbia (real stories).

[Moje ime]

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skordisci

"Scordisci su bili antičko ilirsko-keltsko pleme koje je naseljavalo područja Panonije, oko rijeka Dunav, Sava i Drava. Svoj historijski značaj doživjeli su početkom III stoljeća pne"

[HungryLion]

Illyrian obviously. Celts never lived in Dalmatia and they were not present in Vučedol either.

Don't think so..But we will see

[Dick]

Same as in WW2 many Yugoslavians which were labor camps in Germany fucked German women where their husbands were on fronts, some Germans looking for paternal relatives in Serbia (real stories).

like this guy


https://www.blic.rs/vesti/drustvo/nemac-otkrio-ko-mu-je-otac-i-nasao-porodicu-u-srbiji/vtxer8v

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Dude, all haplogoups except I2a1b, R1a and I1 in the Balkans are proclaimed for paleo-Balkan. Only God know which is amount of haplogroups/branches which arrived to the Balkans from Italy, Anatolia and Levant in Roman time.

If some haplogroup arrived to Balkan from Levant in 4th century they say by automatism paleo-Balkan, my ass paleo-Balkan which arrived in 4th century from Levant.
Haplogroup J2b1-M205 arrived to Balkan from Syria in 4th century. Some Syrian came to Balkans and broughted his y dna (he probably served in Roman legion in the Balkans). Vlach tribe Kriči (J2b1-M205) by paternal line are destendants of Syrian who came to Balkans in 4th century century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči
Similar story is about IncelSkayer's paternal ancient grandfather. Levanine guy who fucked native Balkan woman in the time when her husband was in Roman legions. Same as in WW2 many Yugoslavian which were labor camps in Germany fucked German women where their husbands were on fronts, some Germans looking for paternal relatives in Serbia (real stories).

It isn't really a mystery, R1b L23 and J2b2 found in Slavonian, Dalmatian samples are native Balkan peaking in modern Albanians and unrelated with Italy. E-V13 is another clade unrelated with Italy.
J2a is Greek and present in southern Italy due to Greek colonisation and not the opposite. Myceneans were J2a.

R1b that Ford has is Roman and Italian though or Celtic, but such markers are really minor among modern Balkan people.
G2a that many Serbs have is also Celtic.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Don't think so..But we will see

There is nothing to see. We can be perfectly modeled as mixture of these people and proto-Slavs and ydna of modern Croats is prefectly in line with that.

[Pribislav]

like this guy


https://www.blic.rs/vesti/drustvo/nemac-otkrio-ko-mu-je-otac-i-nasao-porodicu-u-srbiji/vtxer8v

Yes.

I heard for several such cases.

Some of Serbs which were in labor camps in Germany when came to Yugoslavia brought photos of their children with German women.

[HungryLion]

like this guy


https://www.blic.rs/vesti/drustvo/nemac-otkrio-ko-mu-je-otac-i-nasao-porodicu-u-srbiji/vtxer8v

Serbian ... Charm:cool2::lmao

[HungryLion]

There is nothing to see. We can be perfectly modeled as mixture of these people and proto-Slavs and ydna of modern Croats is prefectly in line with that.

Lol okay...But what if they find more diferent samples?

[Pribislav]

Serbian ... Charm:cool2::lmao

Another example.

German woman search her biological Serbian father https://www.blic.rs/vesti/reportaza/nemica-traga-za-srpskim-ocem/ykdbn9x

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Lol okay...But what if they find more diferent samples?

We can find them in times of Jesus and beyond and they will be even more southern due to Roman admixture. In North they can be more northwestern due to Hallstatt Celtic influence in Zagorje and surrounding region like Slovenia.

[IncelSlayer]

Similar story is about IncelSlayer's paternal ancient grandfather. Levantine guy who fucked native Balkan woman, maybe in the time when her husband was in Roman legions. In WW2 many Yugoslavians which were in labor camps

Nice try, my ydna does not exist in Levant,not even the father clade M92 which is like 10k years old

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Nice try, my ydna does not exist in Levant,not even the father clade M92 which is like 10k years old

Your ydna is ancient Greek.

[HungryLion]

Another example.

German woman search her biological Serbian father https://www.blic.rs/vesti/reportaza/nemica-traga-za-srpskim-ocem/ykdbn9x

Lol

We are going revenge everyone over ... Well, think about it :lol:

[Pribislav]

Nice try, my ydna does not exist in Levant,not even the father clade M92 which is like 10k years old

Your clade came from Italy with Roman colonists.

Montenegrin tribe Pješivci carry same clade as you, and they have a match in southern Italy. Further origin is from Levant of course.

[HungryLion]

We can find them in times of Jesus and beyond and they will be even more southern due to Roman admixture. In North they can be more northwestern due to Hallstatt Celtic influence in Zagorje and surrounding region like Slovenia.

It's not point in that, they can be dif haplos

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

It's point in that, they can be dif haplos

Yes, result of foreign admixture into Illyrian tribes.

[IncelSlayer]

Further origin is from Levant of course.

Were's the proof?Not even J2a is from Levant, its Zagros->Anatolia->S.Europe
E1b & J2b1 is from Levant

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

[HungryLion]

Yes, result of foreign admixture into Illyrian tribes.

I don't think iliryan were R1b, I think it's thracian sample.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Your clade came from Italy with Roman colonists.

Montenegrin tribe Pješivci carry same clade as you, and they have a match in southern Italy. Further origin is from Levant of course.

Stop trolling you're becoming annoying. Myceneans were first Greek speakers and not some fucking Levantines and they were J2a, clustering with Sardinians with bit of steppe admix.
Southern Italy is genetically Greek (Magna Grecia) and Greeks were more East Med genetically back than, than today.

Even Romans were genetically very East Med.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I don't think iliryan were R1b, I think it's thracian sample.

Don't make me laugh, there were no Thracians in Croatia. You are just a Serb troll buthurt because it proves nativity of Albanians who your people are continiously harassing with Caucasus propaganda.

[Pribislav]

Were's the proof?Not even J2a is from Levant, its Zagros->Anatolia->S.Europe
E1b & J2b1 is from Levant

https://giphy.com/gifs/Vg0JstydL8HCg

Levant and Anatolia is same shit.

Do you agree with me that you clade arrived with Roman colonists from Italy?

[Bosniensis]

Were's the proof?Not even J2a is from Levant, its Zagros->Anatolia->S.Europe
E1b & J2b1 is from Levant

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/giphy.gif

Huh... it's from levent, when in levant Balkan people lived 10.000 years ago.. why is that important anyway.

[HungryLion]

Don't make me laugh, there were no Thracians in Croatia. You are just a Serb troll buthurt because it proves nativity of Albanians who your people are continiously harassing with Caucasus propaganda.

You are just mentally defective idiot.
I hope that your Albanian brothers will be in Slavonia tomorrow...It is very retarded to associate these samples with today's nations.

[IncelSlayer]

Levant and Anatolia is same shit.

LOL nope, totally different people lived back then there


Do you agree with me that you clade arrived with Roman colonists from Italy?

Could come from anywhere


Huh... it's from levent, when in levant Balkan people lived 10.000 years ago.. why is that important anyway.

No its not, it came in Levant during Calcolithic

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

You are just mentally defective idiot.
I hope that your Albanian brothers will be in Slavonia tomorrow...It is very retarded to associate these samples with today's nations.

Dude get the fuck out of here with politics and stupid agenda it's annoying. I am interested in facts.
Albanians have Slavic and Greek admixture on top of Paleo-Balkan and I got no problem to break it down for them, but they are pretty much native otherwise.

Big fucking suprise.

[Token]

Albanians are the only true Balkanites, everyone else should be sent back to Ukraine and the empty area will be resettled with Northern Italians who more closely resemble Paleo-Balkan people.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Albanians are the only true Balkanites, everyone else should be sent back to Ukraine and the empty area will be resettled with Northern Italians who more closely resemble Paleo-Balkan people.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Xjo8pbrphfVuw/giphy.gif

[HungryLion]

Albanians are the only true Balkanites, everyone else should be sent back to Ukraine and the empty area will be resettled with Northern Italians who more closely resemble Paleo-Balkan people.

I think that the Slovenian more prefer to return to their country in eastern Germany

[HungryLion]

They are not even native on western balkan...Should go to Bulgaria

[Pubiczar]

Albanians are the only true Balkanites, everyone else should be sent back to Ukraine and the empty area will be resettled with Northern Italians who more closely resemble Paleo-Balkan people.

How about the natives send you back to Germany ha?

[HungryLion]

How about the natives send you back to Germany ha?

Half germany was slavic

[Papastratosels26]

Albanians are the only true Balkanites, everyone else should be sent back to Ukraine and the empty area will be resettled with Northern Italians who more closely resemble Paleo-Balkan people.Excellent Idea!!!!!!

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Half germany was slavic

Don't be so modest, it was White Serbian.

[Papastratosels26]

Half germany was slavicAnd Austria genetically

Στάλθηκε από το G3311 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[HungryLion]

Don't be so modest, it was White Serbian.

if you insist

[MagnusDark]

They are not even native on western balkan...Should go to Bulgaria

Idk what is more ridiculous, that you assume Albanians descend from Bulgaria or that you have nearly made 1000 posts in less than 3 weeks of joining within a month. You would think with wasting all that time you would do some actual fact checking. 3 prime Illyrian lineages(this sample being one) prevails in Albanians.

That obviously gets under your skin considering all the political drama over who claims what land. Admitting Albanians are descended in majority paternally from Illyrians would require you to discard all the propaganda constructed against your southern neighbor. Sure, everyone in the Balkans has paleobalkan dna. It’s inevitable. The truth remains that Albanians are simply the closest. Bulgarians are the only ones who are more palebalkan oit of Southern Slavs.

For all we know South Slavs descend from Dacians that fled north of the Danube. So why can’t we cut the crap? Propaganda won’t work against fact anymore. For fudge sake I’m Albanian and have a Proto-Slavic ancestor. That’s history. We all mix. Especially in the Middle Ages.

At the end of the day we’re all humans and the Balkan peoples should help rather than try and exterminate each other.

[HungryLion]

Idk what is more ridiculous, that you assume Albanians descend from Bulgaria or that you have nearly made 1000 posts in less than 3 weeks of joining within a month. You would think with wasting all that time you would do some actual fact checking. 3 prime Illyrian lineages(this sample being one) prevails in Albanians.

That obviously gets under your skin considering all the political drama over who claims what land. Admitting Albanians are descended in majority paternally from Illyrians would require you to discard all the propaganda constructed against your southern neighbor. Sure, everyone in the Balkans has paleobalkan dna. It’s inevitable. The truth remains that Albanians are simply the closest. Bulgarians are the only ones who are more palebalkan oit of Southern Slavs.

For all we know South Slavs descend from Dacians that fled north of the Danube. So why can’t we cut the crap? Propaganda won’t work against fact anymore. For fudge sake I’m Albanian and have a Proto-Slavic ancestor. That’s history. We all mix. Especially in the Middle Ages.

At the end of the day we’re all humans and the Balkan peoples should help rather than try and exterminate each other.

I can write a million posts in 3 days but it does not change anything from who I am in real life. It's just current fun..

We will see in future ..But I can agree that we should acting normal, pretty much I can agree, except for the first couple of irrelevant sentences...

[North Sea]

They are not even native on western balkan...Should go to Bulgaria

These samples are closer to Albanians than samples from East Balkans , when comparing samples from same time frames.., they also have typical Albanian YDNA's . Sorry. But you lose. You can also aee this by the results. Thracians though eventually were related people.

Also, I had no shared segments with samples from Bulgaria but I match West Balkan samples like this :D

[North Sea]

You are just mentally defective idiot.
I hope that your Albanian brothers will be in Slavonia tomorrow...It is very retarded to associate these samples with today's nations.

Lol. We dont want to take any lands except for the ones where we make up the majority and we have no problem with Croats. Most Ilyrians there were Romanised anyway and probanly absorbed into Slavs. Maybe some made their way south.


Croats settled in peace, so did Serbs of course. It was earlier Slavic tribes that invaded Balkans together with Avars and pillaged it.

[MagnusDark]

Lol. We dont want to take any lands except for the ones where we make up the majority and we have no problem with Croats. Most Ilyrians there were Romanised anyway and probanly absorbed into Slavs. Maybe some made their way south.


Croats settled in peace, so did Serbs of course. It was earlier Slavic tribes that invaded Balkans together with Avars and pillaged it.

True. But the ones that settled in Albania were supposedly on good terms with the Byzantines. Vastly assimilated. Including some in Northern Greece. Anywhere the Slavic tribe was the overwhelming majority or power, they assimilated others. Whereas those tribes that cane at the earliest settling in Albania and Greece were either assimilated early or expelled. It could explain how Crete which had no Slavic invasion has some Slavic clades. Probably from mainland Greeks who were assimilated early.

[MagnusDark]

I can write a million posts in 3 days but it does not change anything from who I am in real life. It's just current fun..

We will see in future ..But I can agree that we should acting normal, pretty much I can agree, except for the first couple of irrelevant sentences...


I mean we can already see. As North Sea above stated, all the Illyrian samples were branches that Albanian clades largely descend. Couple this with the fact that majority of Albanians fall within EV13/J2b/R1b. Sure the Y chromosome is 1 percent of DNA and doesn’t amount much with admixture. Even if the Illyrians were vastly autsomally different today(which is not even the case) the Albanians still largely trace their paternal ancestors to the Balkans. Sure it’s only a handful of samples. But we have to deal with facts. Sure some guesswork doesn’t hurt but it’s dangerous.

Personally I think South Slavs or Proto Slavs we’re just a distantly related northern kin of Dacians or perhaps even descendants of Free Dacians that fled north of the Danube. Makes sense. This could explain why highest I2a and R1a diversity can be found in the cultural horizon of Dacians. Regardless, the lack of diversity of I2a1b in south Slavs and the relative young ages still suggests they spread with the Slavs who may well partly trace their ancestors to Dacians. Hence the relative few surviving clades experiencing a demographic boom with the Sklavenoi.

However the Proto-Dacians and Proto-Thracians are not related to Illyrians as some like to claim. They’re different people.

[North Sea]

Who cares? He is my long lost cousin paternally speaking, that probably didn’t get much laid :p

I ran your kit using 50 snp and 1 cm and this is what you got

Largest segment = 4.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 70.3 cM (1.973 Pct)

47 shared segments found for this comparison.

148393 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.153 Pct SNPs are full