Poland Y-DNA (most accurate, no Khazar.com BS)

[Cumansky]

Poland Y-DNA

Source: Polish FTDNA Project (7685 members) October 2016

R1A - 49.8%
R1B - 12.4%
I2 - 9.2%
I1 - 6.3%
N - 5.2%
E - 5.1%
J2 - 4.8%
G - 2.6%
J1 - 2.6%
Q - 1.1%
Other - 0.9%

[Cumansky]

More information

[MagnusDark]

That doesn’t make sense. Poland with only 7 percent L1029? I know L260 would be more dominant but I figured L1029 would be a bit higher considering it’s diversity in Central Europe.

[Cumansky]

That doesn’t make sense. Poland with only 7 percent L1029? I know L260 would be more dominant but I figured L1029 would be a bit higher considering it’s diversity in Central Europe.

Is that R1A or R1B?

[Ryuk]

Does N's are N2 and I2's are dinaric?

[Cumansky]

Does N's are N2 and I2's are dinaric?

I2 are majority labelled Dinaric. Of the 9.2%, there is also minority I2 that have Northwest Europe or British Isles mutation.

I don't know exactly, some of N clades can be traced back to Lithuanian noble families Gediminas, Mickevius.

[MagnusDark]

Is that R1A or R1B?

It’s a subclade of R1a-M458. I know Polish R1a is mostly L260(another subclade of M458). However I thought I read something that 25 percent of Polish R1a fell in L1029. According to this it’s only 7 percent. Germany has more L1029 than that. East Germany for instance has over 30 percent R1a with most of it being M458(and likely L1029).

[Peterski]

But this includes Polish Jews too, that's why there is high % of J and E.

[Leto]

But this includes Polish Jews too, that's why there is high % of E and J.
Maybe Jewish ancestors but not actual Jews.

[Peterski]

Maybe Jewish ancestors but not actual Jews.

Actual Jews who join the Polish Project.

Most of participants are from the USA.

[Leto]

It’s a subclade of R1a-M458. I know Polish R1a is mostly L260(another subclade of M458). However I thought I read something that 25 percent of Polish R1a fell in L1029. According to this it’s only 7 percent. Germany has more L1029 than that. East Germany for instance has over 30 percent R1a with most of it being M458(and likely L1029).
The main Slavic clade of R1a is Z280.

[Peterski]

Z280 is Balto-Slavic while M458 is especially common among West Slavs.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I2 isn't even that rare, 10% is respectable among such large population as Polish. R1b is predominately U106, right ?

[Not a Cop]

I2 isn't even that rare, 10% is respectable among such large population as Polish. R1b is predominately U106, right ?

As far as i remember P312 is also pretty common, there is actually even a guy with DF-99 in Poland, but his surname is Niemec

[MagnusDark]

The main Slavic clade of R1a is Z280.

Yes. But that is not the main clade of R1a for Poles. That would be M458, and more specifically L260. but They do still have a large proportion of Z280 of course.

[MagnusDark]

Z280 is Balto-Slavic while M458 is especially common among West Slavs.

L260 can be called West Slavic. M458 was born before Proto-Slavs. Only clades under M458 can be tied to the Slavic Migration. Even then there is no ancient DNA to deal in such absolutes. Z280 on the other hand has been found in a plethora of ancient dna, in the area of Balto-Slavs, and joins both of them under one clade.

M458 is more specifically Central European/west slavic zones. So it could have been an unknown yet related indo-european dialect of Balto-Slavic that went extinct in the Iron Age and was absorbed by Proto-Slavs. You do realize there were a plethora of now dead indo european languages right?

Z280 is still the prevailing clade of R1a in all Slavs/Balts(Z92 more Baltic, while CTS1211 more Slavic). With exception of West Slavs who seem to have somewhat equal breakdowns of both Z280 and M458 clades.

[visar]

On Eupedia R1a is 57,5% of Poles. Thats some diffrence. M458 is clearly slavic mark.

[Luke35]

My subclade seems to be one of the varieties of N found most commonly among Poles. YSEQ is processing but I expect to end up as Y17696 or Y17420.
Quick results summary:
N1a-VL29 Panel processing
Y5004 T-
L550 T+
M2783 G+
Z16980 C+
Y6077 C+
Y15922 T-
A11470 A-
Y6076 C+
Y17696 A+
Y17420 processing
Y17418 C-

[Pribislav]

Poland Y-DNA

Source: Polish FTDNA Project (7685 members) October 2016

R1A - 49.8%
R1B - 12.4%
I2 - 9.2%
I1 - 6.3%
N - 5.2%
E - 5.1%
J2 - 4.8%
G - 2.6%
J1 - 2.6%
Q - 1.1%
Other - 0.9%

Is R1b in Poland German input?

[Luke35]

Here is where I am on the tree (N-Y17696). Polish.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y6077/

[MagnusDark]

On Eupedia R1a is 57,5% of Poles. Thats some diffrence. M458 is clearly slavic mark.

M458 predated the Slavs though, and its not commonly found everywhere in Slavs like Z280. The clades descended from M458 however(L1029/L260/YP515) had a demographic boom with the Slavic Migration. These can be called Proto-Slavic, and only its descending clades Slavic(considering Most Slavs are not basal clades under M458 but downstream that align with migration). M458 by itself is 4700 years old. that predates Proto-Slavs, let alone Slavs. Maybe its Balto-Slavic just like Z280 or Proto-Balto-Slavic or similarly related indo-european language that went extinct. On top of all this, its pure speculation based on modern distributions. Theres no ancient M458 remains discovered yet. All its diversity and concentration falls within the Corded Cultural horizon. Perhaps M458 was part of the Trziniec culture which were considered Balto-Slavic if I am not mistaken, and an eastern offshoot of Corded Ware. To try and assign modern ethno-linguistic groups to ancient DNA clades that hasn't been found is foolhardy. With exception of Poles South-West Belarus, and Germans with L1029*, all Slavs in the branch outside these areas fall more downstream of L1029 and L260 to younger clades without much diversity. M458 probably was originally some extinct Proto-Balto-Slavic language in Central Europe(if we are going on diversity). Of course as I mentioned earlier even this is speculation. We have no ancient DNA for M458. I hope we find some soon.

[Peterski]

M458 predated the Slavs though

There is no evidence supporting this claim because M458 is totally non-existent in ancient DNA.

On the other hand Z280 was common in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia already during the Bronze Age.

Modern distribution says nothing about origins, you have to look at available ancient DNA samples.

=====

Proto-Slavic ethnogenesis took place during the 2nd millennium BC according to linguists:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236524-What-Non-Slavic-ancestries-do-Ukrainians-Belarusians-Russians-have&p=4985341&viewfull=1#post4985341

[Cumansky]

Is R1b in Poland German input?

I believe R1B in Poland mostly Germanic yes. The reason for this most R1B is from unproper regions of Poland (Prussia, Silesia) these are in our recent history non Polish regions geographicaly farthest from core Polish lands in the Southeast border regions where resided Polish Szlachta noble families. The western Polish regions were packed with oppurtunistic migrants, who probably some had identity decision to make in time of war, and some try deny this now. There are Polish Szlachta families from mainland Poland they are mostly R1A.

Maybe some R1B clades got swept into "Slavic migration" but probably there origin is more western than eastern. There is also few exotic R1B clades probably Mediterranean.

[Cumansky]

I2 isn't even that rare, 10% is respectable among such large population as Polish. R1b is predominately U106, right ?

I2 has concentration only in southern border regions of Poland. In Poland will be lower than 9.2% because these brothers are scattered around all corners of globe now, as they were historically Szlachta and recruited to fight during WWII many were also worldclass fighter pilots. While these brothers were beating Germans and allies in honor, back at home Russians were sending their children and wives to Siberian gulag in attempt to permanently displace them.

Long story short, many of these I2 people don't live in Poland anymore and they are descendants of Szlachta nobility of Polish Lithuanian commonwealth. So remember next time you put Nazi BS in this thread, my country Poland has atleast 5 times as many Poles living abroad as Croatia has internaly and even more assimilated as consequence WWII.

[Cumansky]

It’s a subclade of R1a-M458. I know Polish R1a is mostly L260(another subclade of M458). However I thought I read something that 25 percent of Polish R1a fell in L1029. According to this it’s only 7 percent. Germany has more L1029 than that. East Germany for instance has over 30 percent R1a with most of it being M458(and likely L1029).

I match more with Z280 than M458 in GEDmatch, but I seen a few M458.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I2 has concentration only in southern border regions of Poland. In Poland will be lower than 9.2% because these brothers are scattered around all corners of globe now, as they were historically Szlachta and recruited to fight during WWII many were also worldclass fighter pilots. While these brothers were beating Germans and allies in honor, back at home Russians were sending their children and wives to Siberian gulag in attempt to permanently displace them.

Long story short, many of these I2 people don't live in Poland anymore and they are descendants of Szlachta nobility of Polish Lithuanian commonwealth. So remember next time you put Nazi BS in this thread, my country Poland has atleast 5 times as many Poles living abroad as Croatia has internaly and even more assimilated as consequence WWII.

What's your issue with me exactly ? Where did I mention anything ''nazi'' ? Lmao.

[Cumansky]

But this includes Polish Jews too, that's why there is high % of J and E.

2.6% J-M267, is that Kohanim line? Are you Jew?

[Cumansky]

What's your issue with me exactly ? Where did I mention anything ''nazi'' ? Lmao.

I have problem with many Croatian egoista, you are just another on the list.

[Ayetooey]

I2 has concentration only in southern border regions of Poland. In Poland will be lower than 9.2% because these brothers are scattered around all corners of globe now, as they were historically Szlachta and recruited to fight during WWII many were also worldclass fighter pilots. While these brothers were beating Germans and allies in honor, back at home Russians were sending their children and wives to Siberian gulag in attempt to permanently displace them.

Long story short, many of these I2 people don't live in Poland anymore and they are descendants of Szlachta nobility of Polish Lithuanian commonwealth. So remember next time you put Nazi BS in this thread, my country Poland has atleast 5 times as many Poles living abroad as Croatia has internaly and even more assimilated as consequence WWII.

I've heard that the highest concentration of i2a in Poland is in the Goral vlachs.

[Cumansky]

Most of participants are from the USA.

Many participants in Polish FTDNA project are from abroad, yes.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I have problem with many Croatian egoista, you are just another on the list.

Dude, you've been trolling Croats for quite some time now. I am not trolling Poles on the other hand.

[Cumansky]

I've heard that the highest concentration of i2a in Poland is in the Goral vlachs.

The most common S17250 at 3.8%, they are mostly Carpathian region western Ukraine and southern Poland. There is a few others who got brought to different regions during Polish Lithuanian commonwealth time. But you can see Phylogeographer.com S17250 mutation occurs directly my hometown Kolomyja, Ukraine this is very old Polish settlement going back to year 1241 AD first mention of Polish city. Pokucie region in Polish, Pocutia in Romanian, Pokuttia in Ukrainian.

[MagnusDark]

There is no evidence supporting this claim because M458 is totally non-existent in ancient DNA.

On the other hand Z280 was common in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia already during the Bronze Age.

Modern distribution says nothing about origins, you have to look at available ancient DNA samples.

=====

Proto-Slavic ethnogenesis took place during the 2nd millennium BC according to linguists:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?236524-What-Non-Slavic-ancestries-do-Ukrainians-Belarusians-Russians-have&p=4985341&viewfull=1#post4985341

According to linguistics. Do you have any idea how many diverse Proto-Slavic/Proto-Balto-Slavic languages may have existed prior to migration? Did you forget Slavic liturgically spread with church Slavonic from the South?

You're contradicting yourself. You say M458 is Slavic(an ethno-linguistic group which only emerged in the middle ages). Last time I checked there was no such thing as Slavs in 2700BC. Then you say there is no evidence for it predated Slavs. well...2700BC?

Then you said modern distribution says nothing about origins. Yet its modern distributions which you use to base your pseudo-scientific position. Then you mention you have to look at available ancient DNA which you already admitted there was none. The absence of which doesn't prove either scenario.

Says theres no evidence to suggest its not slavic, admits theres no ancient DNA for its origins ,and that you can't use modern distributions to ascertain origins. So basically you went around in circles pointing out the simple fact we don't know anything about M458 yet.

You're still claiming it is entirely Slavic, and yet you question the Slavic nature of Z280 which is found all over Balto-Slavic zones. You cannot say anything definitive for M458 because not even one sample is definitive. There is zilch pre- migration/iron age. Slavs come from Proto-Balto-Slavs, not the other way around. calling M458 Slavic is nonsensical. You cant get an ancient people from a modern people. Calling YP263, and other downstream clades under M458 with young ages Slavic makes much more sense. Please also explain how some Nogai, Dargins, and other north/south Kavkaz people, some of which are turkic speaking have large amounts of basal M458 and negative for any clades associated with the Slavic Migration? What makes more sense is a basal M458 Corded Ware stayed in the area.

Get this straight. Only the clades descended from m458(L1029/YP515/L260) expanded out with, and participated in the demographic boom of the Slavic migration. Even then L1029 and L260 have huge disparity between their formation date(1100BC for L1029 that I recall) and TMRCA(100B-0AD). Suggesting a L1029/L260 rich community experienced near termination of their line sometime during the Iron Age, explaining why its descendant branches only have a MRCA of 2100-2500ypb(L1029/L260) expanding out with the Proto-Slavs.

You also seem to ignore there were countless unattested loosely related indo-european tribes that spoke similar languages which are now extinct. For all we know M458 spoke a dead indo european language descended from or related to Proto-Balto-Slavic. Until theres actual ancient DNA you're providing the same amount of guesswork as the rest of us. Ultimately it is still referred to as Central European blanketly by science. Because unlike yourself and the rest of us common folk, guesswork is not a stand in for facts.

Basques are largely R1b in majority despite linguistically having nothing to do with Indo-Europeans. Wrap your head around that and consider the possibility that you may be wrong to assume a dominant lineage was in modern Slavs was equally so in antiquity. Unless they find old Basque linked R1b prior to indo-Europeans then they are just one example of a non indo-european ethno-linguistic peoples who are paternally descended largely from Indo Europeans.

The ancient world was not as ordered as today. Race/Language was not a unifying factor.

[MagnusDark]

I match more with Z280 than M458 in GEDmatch, but I seen a few M458.

Yea. Almost all my 23andme M458's are East German, few west Germans, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian. My Z280 matches are widespread throughout the Slavic world.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-M458.png

[Leto]

Yea. Almost all my 23andme M458's are East German, few west Germans, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian. My Z280 matches are widespread throughout the Slavic world.
Are you part Polish?

[MagnusDark]

Are you part Polish?

No. I am Albanian. I am basal L1029* with a Albanian founder effect downstream(1200-1300ypb). My clade was probably some Proto-Slav(Berziti/Vajuniti) or arriving with the first Bulgarian empire(based on the founder clade age) that got assimilated and demographically expanded within Eastern Albania. So far all other L1029 belong to younger downstream clades and show up mostly in the southern Albanian regions. My basal L1029* matches are mostly East German, Polish, Scandinavian, Caucasian(adyghei)(2100-2000ypb).

[Leto]

No. I am Albanian. I am basal L1029* with a Albanian founder effect downstream(1200-1300ypb). My clade was probably some Proto-Slav that got assimilated and had a Albanian founder effect before demographically expanding within our region. My basal L1029* matches are mostly East German, Polish, Scandinavian, Caucasian(adyghei).
Basal M198? But it's still Z280 and not Z93? I don't know anything about more detailed sub-clades.

[MagnusDark]

Basal M198? But it's still Z280 and not Z93? I don't know anything about more detailed sub-clades.

M198 I think is supposed to be the ancestor of most all living R1a today. Basal L1029 is a branch of M458 with a formation of 1100BC but a MRCA(most recent ancestor) dating to 100BC or 0AD. This suggests this clade experienced near extinction sometime between 1100BC-100BC, with the few survivors having a demographic boom during the Slavic migrations. So they're not exclusively Slavic, but Proto Slavic or maybe Balto-Slavic.

M458 itself has a MRCA of 2700BC, its brother clade Z280 I think being 2800BC. Z280/M458/Z284 were all descended from Corded Ware Culture. M458 and Z280 were on the Eastern periphery. This why I sermise M458 being a now extinct but related Balto-Slavic/Proto-Balto-Slavic people that declined during the Iron-Age and boomed again during the Slavic migration.

[Cumansky]

Yea. Almost all my 23andme M458's are East German, few west Germans, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian. My Z280 matches are widespread throughout the Slavic world.

My Z280 matches also widespread in Slavic world, with some shift towards "East Slavic" modern territory.

[Dick]

Nice thread.

[Cumansky]

M198 I think is supposed to be the ancestor of most all living R1a today. Basal L1029 is a branch of M458 with a formation of 1100BC but a MRCA(most recent ancestor) dating to 100BC or 0AD. This suggests this clade experienced near extinction sometime between 1100BC-100BC, with the few survivors having a demographic boom during the Slavic migrations. So they're not exclusively Slavic, but Proto Slavic or maybe Balto-Slavic.

M458 itself has a MRCA of 2700BC, its brother clade Z280 I think being 2800BC. Z280/M458/Z284 were all descended from Corded Ware Culture. M458 and Z280 were on the Eastern periphery. This why I sermise M458 being a now extinct but related Balto-Slavic/Proto-Balto-Slavic people that declined during the Iron-Age and boomed again during the Slavic migration.

I will look for some M458 in my GEDmatch now..

[Cumansky]

Y107244, Polish
M198, Idk
M198, Russian
M198, Idk Russia, Hungary, Finland, Estonia, Czech most common
CTS4648, Russian
Z280, Russian Volga region
M198, Idk
CTS11962, German
M198, Idk
YP682, Ukrainian
M198, Polish
M417, Idk
A5616, Finnish
Y46, Idk
Y2902, Russian
M512, Ukrainian
Z283, Polish
YP517, Polish
YP331, Polish
YP1361, Polish
L260, Polish
Z2109, Idk

Most of my R1A matches from original GEDmatch top 2000 list..

[Peterski]

Cumansky is biased towards Kresy. The truth is that Kresy was just a Polish colony in the east, while core Polish lands have always been in the West, especially Poznań and Gniezno area is where Poland originated (at that time Warsaw and Lvov did not even exist):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?257867-DNA-from-Early-Medieval-Pozna%26%23324%3B-900-1200

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Oldest_urban_centers_of_Poland.png

[MagnusDark]

My Z280 matches also widespread in Slavic world, with some shift towards "East Slavic" modern territory.

Agreed. I forgot who said it but it goes “every modern people must have an ancestor in the ancient world”. I think the oldest Z280 was found in the Proto-Slavic urheimat in Ukraine. Quite telling. Think about it. In a short span of 1100-1600 years, one Proto Slavic dialect disseminated into a large language family. So many branches today we label blanketly could be older dialects of the same derived tongue that were just absorbed by their most dominant and successful kin.

I can barely understand Arvanite Albanians when they speak and that’s only been 500/800 years lol. What’s to say Lusatians for instance weren’t M458? Many connect them with the Trziniec culture which is a culture associated with Proto-Slavs. But it’s discarded as a possibility because according to the authorities on the matter, Proto Slavic like people could not have existed in lands that were referred to as Germans and Celts. That would disrupt the narrative that has been reached. The official narrative while heading in the right direction has a lot of holes.

[MagnusDark]

Cumansky is biased towards Kresy. The truth is that Kresy was just a Polish colony in the east, while core Polish lands have always been in the West, especially Poznań and Gniezno area is where Poland originated (at that time Warsaw and Lvov did not even exist):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?257867-DNA-from-Early-Medieval-Pozna%26%23324%3B-900-1200

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Oldest_urban_centers_of_Poland.png

I haven’t read much of his posts. However to be fair you can be pretty bias yourself. You make some loaded claims with YDNA with flimsy evidence. For instance no one in their right mind calls E-V13 Albanian in entirety because we know that there’s only specific branches associated with Albanians. Despite being dominant it doesn’t mean unrelated E-V13 clades are exclusively Albanian when found elsewhere. Albanians are merely a dominant V13 group of paleobalkan descent just as there are even Slavic clades of V13 as well. Yet I have seen you more often than not claim All R1a outside the obvious localized branches like Z93/L664/Z284 as Slavic. It’s no different if Albanians claimed all J2/V13/R1b to be Albanian in origin. That’s simply not the case. Context is everything. We can say with certainty R1a is a northern and eastern dominant lineage. But you don’t know the ancient picture and history of these areas outside what some elitists a few hundred years ago wrote based on older chroniclers. It doesn’t make every clade under the sun Slavic just to suit your preference. Slavs emerged and expanded in the Middle Ages. M458 emerged much earlier. Only it’s lster descendants would be considered Proto-Slavs or Slavs.

Don’t get me wrong. When it comes to history compilation and data you’re thorough. I will give you that. But you tend to go full pseudo science when it comes to YDNA. Which would be fine if you didn’t act like everything you assume was fact.

Point is there’s been no good paper on M458 for years. And the best ones we have don’t label M458 as Slavic but only branches. M458 is just called Central European at the moment because we have no ancient DNA to further identify it.

[Cumansky]

Y107244, Polish
M198, Idk
M198, Russian
M198, Idk Russia, Hungary, Finland, Estonia, Czech most common
CTS4648, Russian
Z280, Russian Volga region
M198, Idk
CTS11962, German
M198, Idk
YP682, Ukrainian
M198, Polish
M417, Idk
A5616, Finnish
Y46, Idk
Y2902, Russian
M512, Ukrainian
Z283, Polish
YP517, Polish
YP331, Polish
YP1361, Polish
L260, Polish
Z2109, Idk

Most of my R1A matches from original GEDmatch top 2000 list..

[Cumansky]

Agreed. I forgot who said it but it goes “every modern people must have an ancestor in the ancient world”. I think the oldest Z280 was found in the Proto-Slavic urheimat in Ukraine. Quite telling. Think about it. In a short span of 1100-1600 years, one Proto Slavic dialect disseminated into a large language family. So many branches today we label blanketly could be older dialects of the same derived tongue that were just absorbed by their most dominant and successful kin.

I can barely understand Arvanite Albanians when they speak and that’s only been 500/800 years lol. What’s to say Lusatians for instance weren’t M458? Many connect them with the Trziniec culture which is a culture associated with Proto-Slavs. But it’s discarded as a possibility because according to the authorities on the matter, Proto Slavic like people could not have existed in lands that were referred to as Germans and Celts. That would disrupt the narrative that has been reached. The official narrative while heading in the right direction has a lot of holes.

Do you recognize any of these clades above?

[Cumansky]

Cumansky is biased towards Kresy. The truth is that Kresy was just a Polish colony in the east, while core Polish lands have always been in the West, especially Poznań and Gniezno area is where Poland originated (at that time Warsaw and Lvov did not even exist):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?257867-DNA-from-Early-Medieval-Pozna%26%23324%3B-900-1200

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Oldest_urban_centers_of_Poland.png

Peterski I just counted my whole top 2000 GEDmatch list, 32 more matches with 8.2 CM or higher and you will be permanently off my list, cuzzo

[HungryLion]

Poland Y-DNA

Source: Polish FTDNA Project (7685 members) October 2016

R1A - 49.8%
R1B - 12.4%
I2 - 9.2%
I1 - 6.3%
N - 5.2%
E - 5.1%
J2 - 4.8%
G - 2.6%
J1 - 2.6%
Q - 1.1%
Other - 0.9%

59% are slavic ...

[Cumansky]

59% are slavic ...

I roasted one Croatian today already, do you want to be next?

[HungryLion]

I roasted one Croatian today already, do you want to be next?

Lol I am not croatian...Didn't get the point?
Most of this I2a is dinaric so it is considered slavic?

[Cumansky]

Lol I am not croatian...Didn't get the point?
Most of this I2a is dinaric so it is considered slavic?

Do you eat Pierogi?

[Not a Cop]

59% are slavic ...

There are most likely proto-slavic subclades of R1b, N1c, I1 and other major Euro haplogroups, but we can't narow them down yet.

[MagnusDark]

Do you recognize any of these clades above?

Let me go through them and see. Thank you.

[Leto]

There are most likely proto-slavic subclades of R1b, N1c, I1 and other major Euro haplogroups, but we can't narow them down yet.
Really? Only R1a and I2 are recognized as truly Slavic.

[Not a Cop]

Really? Only R1a and I2 are recognized as truly Slavic.

By the time of formation of Slavic identity I2 and R1a was already broken down into subclades, considering that we encounter R1b, N1c and I1 in all Slavci populations it safe to assume that atleast part of them came from proto-slavic migrations. Also considering the fact that Eastern slavs and Poles remained rather close to proto-slavs it's highly unlikely that more than 40% of it's male lineages age of foreign descent.

[MagnusDark]

Y.....

Y107244 is a subclass of L260 with a TMRCA of 1650 years. Mostly Polish, have seen a couple Ukrainians with it. The Pole in Yfull is from Silesia.

M198 is the parent of most R1a. They likely belong further down stream to Z280/M458

CTS4648 is a branch of Z280 with TMRCA of 2600 years. Per Yfull samples range from Russia to Lithuania to Poland and Sardinia and Montenegro. It belongs to Z92 which is dominant in Balts.

Z280, Russian Volga region, I think an ancient Z280 sample was found near the Volga.


CTS11962 is the parent to L1029 & YP515 with a TMRCA 3100 years. The German in this case probably belongs to L1029.


YP682 is a subclass of Z280, more specifically Z92 with a TMRCA of 1700 years. Seems mostly East Slavic/Baltic. Ukrainian makes sense. They’re a lot on yfull

M417 is the parent of almos tthe enitrely if R1a Z280/M458/Z284/L663/Z93. The oldest sample was found in Alexandria, Ukraine which was I think like 6000 years ago. It gave birth to Indo Aryan, Proto Germanic, Scando-Germanic, and Balto-Slavic Lineages/languages.

A5616, this is actually a clade if R1b mostly Western Europe. Has a TMRCA 1350 years.

Y46 is a subclade of Z93. The indo Aryan Branch. It’s distribution is South Asia. TMRCA of 3300 years.

Y2902 is a subclass if Z280 with a TMRCA of 2400 years. The Russian in Yfull is from the Volga and theres a Pole from Mazovia. It’s definitely Slavic. We’ll spread out and part of CTS1211 which is the more dominant variety of Z280 in Slavs as opposed to Z92 in Balts. But they have both.


M512 is simply R1a1a. It’s the parent of M417 among others. It was found in the remains of a Bronze Age Pole from silesia among other spread out samples. Mostly in northern/Eastern Europe.

Z283 is the parent to M458/Z280/Z284. This is corded war branch. He likely belongs to M458 or Z280 but some cases of basal Z283 do exist in Poland.

YP517 is a supclade of L1029, belonging to YP516(TMRCA 2000 years)- according to Yfull there’s mainly Poles and a Swede. One of them is from Pomerania. Pomeranian Viking probably in case of the Swede.


YP331 is a subclade if Z280, more specifically the Slavic branch CTS1211 with a TMRCA of 1500 years. Mostly Polish from the looks of it.

YP1361 is a subclade of Z280, more specifically CTS1211 with a TMRCA of 1250 years. Basal sample in Yfull is Russian, however all downstream clades are Poles with younger branches.

L260 is a subclade of M458 and has a TMRCA of 2500 years. Interestingly it formed 4500 years ago. Suggesting like L1029 they were nearly extinct and boomed out again with the Slavs. It’s more specifically West Slavic.

Z2109 is a SNP of R1b part of Z2108 TMRCA of 5500 years.

[MagnusDark]

59% are slavic ...

Oh so simple with a broad brush. Lol. 59 percent are potentially descended from a Proto Slavic ancestor but 100 percent of them are Slavs/Poles. Your ethnolinguistic affiliation and autosomal ancestry(99 percent of your DNA) is what defines you. Would you call a black guy with I1 German? I didn’t think so.

[HungryLion]

calm down the passions I just said how it looks for now...I have not disputed that the rest were not the Poles

[MagnusDark]

Really? Only R1a and I2 are recognized as truly Slavic.

That’s because of dominance. Like J2, V13, R1b in south Europe. People call it paleo Balkan. And for both cases most may well be. But like there are Slavic clades of even the southern lineages, it’s foolhardy to think some distant pre migration clades didn’t move around. We can’t calculate every occurrence of the ancient world. We’re merely peaking through a hole and acting like we see the whole room lol. No one in the professional fields assign these labels to haplogroups. It’s mostly guessworks kn forums like these lol.

[Dick]

Oh so simple with a broad brush. Lol. 59 percent are potentially descended from a Proto Slavic ancestor but 100 percent of them are Slavs/Poles. Your ethnolinguistic affiliation and autosomal ancestry(99 percent of your DNA) is what defines you. Would you call a black guy with I1 German? I didn’t think so.

I'd call him my brotha from anotha motha

[HungryLion]

There are most likely proto-slavic subclades of R1b, N1c, I1 and other major Euro haplogroups, but we can't narow them down yet.

Agreed..

[MagnusDark]

I'd call him my brotha from anotha motha

Lol more like a very distant brother from a long line of other mothers.

[Cumansky]

Y107244 is a subclass of L260 with a TMRCA of 1650 years. Mostly Polish, have seen a couple Ukrainians with it. The Pole in Yfull is from Silesia.

M198 is the parent of most R1a. They likely belong further down stream to Z280/M458

CTS4648 is a branch of Z280 with TMRCA of 2600 years. Per Yfull samples range from Russia to Lithuania to Poland and Sardinia and Montenegro. It belongs to Z92 which is dominant in Balts.

Z280, Russian Volga region, I think an ancient Z280 sample was found near the Volga.


CTS11962 is the parent to L1029 & YP515 with a TMRCA 3100 years. The German in this case probably belongs to L1029.


YP682 is a subclass of Z280, more specifically Z92 with a TMRCA of 1700 years. Seems mostly East Slavic/Baltic. Ukrainian makes sense. They’re a lot on yfull

M417 is the parent of almos tthe enitrely if R1a Z280/M458/Z284/L663/Z93. The oldest sample was found in Alexandria, Ukraine which was I think like 6000 years ago. It gave birth to Indo Aryan, Proto Germanic, Scando-Germanic, and Balto-Slavic Lineages/languages.

A5616, this is actually a clade if R1b mostly Western Europe. Has a TMRCA 1350 years.

Y46 is a subclade of Z93. The indo Aryan Branch. It’s distribution is South Asia. TMRCA of 3300 years.

Y2902 is a subclass if Z280 with a TMRCA of 2400 years. The Russian in Yfull is from the Volga and theres a Pole from Mazovia. It’s definitely Slavic. We’ll spread out and part of CTS1211 which is the more dominant variety of Z280 in Slavs as opposed to Z92 in Balts. But they have both.


M512 is simply R1a1a. It’s the parent of M417 among others. It was found in the remains of a Bronze Age Pole from silesia among other spread out samples. Mostly in northern/Eastern Europe.

Z283 is the parent to M458/Z280/Z284. This is corded war branch. He likely belongs to M458 or Z280 but some cases of basal Z283 do exist in Poland.

YP517 is a supclade of L1029, belonging to YP516(TMRCA 2000 years)- according to Yfull there’s mainly Poles and a Swede. One of them is from Pomerania. Pomeranian Viking probably in case of the Swede.


YP331 is a subclade if Z280, more specifically the Slavic branch CTS1222 with a TMRCA of 1500 years. Mostly Polish from the looks of it.

YP1361 is a subclade of Z280, more specifically CTS1211 with a TMRCA of 1250 years. Basal sample in Yfull is Russian, however all downstream clades are Poles with younger branches.

L260 is a subclade of M458 and has a TMRCA of 2500 years. Interestingly it formed 4500 years ago. Suggesting like L1029 they were nearly extinct and boomed out again with the Slavs. It’s more specifically West Slavic.

Z2109 is a SNP of R1b part of Z2108 TMRCA of 5500 years.

You know, this the core of my genetic but I realize there is no real autosomal test for accurate Steppe genetic at this time. Maybe Lukasz K47 or Kurd or Davidski is giving less broadly result.

To explain details of the clades origin bring more clarity, thank you. If I see Genesis GEDmatch some different variety of clades I post it here.

[Cumansky]

Agreed..

I show you this clade I2, one example there is many others, run Phylogeographer if you want..

I-L161 (7 samples in order TMRCA)

Iraq
Bulgaria (Kardzhali)
Unspecified
Poland (Mazovia)
Poland
Poland
Poland

[Cumansky]

On Eupedia R1a is 57,5% of Poles. Thats some diffrence. M458 is clearly slavic mark.

If this clade predated Slavs, then it cannot be Slavic, it is a mutation that bridged various R1A populations Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, etc

[MagnusDark]

If this clade predated Slavs, then it cannot be Slavic, it is a mutation that bridged various R1A populations Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, etc

Exactly. It definitely is most prominent in Slavs but as we know even the Basques are predominantly R1b despite language and culture being pre-R1b. Somehow their entire paternal lineages we’re dominated by invader indo Europeans but their language endured.

[Cumansky]

Exactly. It definitely is most prominent in Slavs but as we know even the Basques are predominantly R1b despite language and culture being pre-R1b. Somehow their entire paternal lineages we’re dominated by invader indo Europeans but their language endured.

In case of Basques, probably elite I2 people migrated east and even north and some less warlike clades stayed put in a Proto Homeland around southwestern Europe. I mean you can see in the Slavosphere I2 is elite and R1A also an elite haplogroup even some odd cases of I1, N, Q elites I believe in Slavosphere. I am example myself of I2 conquering R1A. In Slavosphere, I2 and R1A is more of alliance than enemy but every region has unique differences, I don't believe generalize groups like some rookie geneticists like to do. Can R1B be elite invader haplogroup? Maybe, but my opinion is that is not widespread elite haplogroup, I think most clades of R1B you have to look in direction of neolithic farmers who arrived to Europe thru farming the southern Balkan region.

[Figaro]

Considering doing deep Y testing soon. My fathers father was German-American, but from Mecklenburg and we are R1A. Probably a Polabian origin.

[Figaro]

In case of Basques, probably elite I2 people migrated east and even north and some less warlike clades stayed put in a Proto Homeland around southwestern Europe. I mean you can see in the Slavosphere I2 is elite and R1A also an elite haplogroup even some odd cases of I1, N, Q elites I believe in Slavosphere. I am example myself of I2 conquering R1A. In Slavosphere, I2 and R1A is more of alliance than enemy but every region has unique differences, I don't believe generalize groups like some rookie geneticists like to do. Can R1B be elite invader haplogroup? Maybe, but my opinion is that is not widespread elite haplogroup, I think most clades of R1B you have to look in direction of neolithic farmers who arrived to Europe thru farming the southern Balkan region.

The jury's not out regarding the story behind the Basques. The language could simply be from out east. Links to Caucasus languages have been proposed. The steppes are just north of the Caucasus -proper. It's totally feasible Caucasian speakers dominated one or more steppe clan. Of course, a Neolithic origin is possible as well. After all, weren't Western European beakers little more than Corded Ware offshoots with a paternal line reflecting hybridization with Yamna? Plus some more assimilated farmer? I suppose it can be and had been argued that the aboriginal component is responsible for the basque language

[MagnusDark]

Considering doing deep Y testing soon. My fathers father was German-American, but from Mecklenburg and we are R1A. Probably a Polabian origin.

You should totally test further! Maybe you’re L1029 also! Alot of German L1029 is basal and there’s some branches of it found only in Germans. Probably because they’re early assimilated western Slavic tribes in the Middle Ages that have been German for a millennia or more now. I match a lot of East Germans on my L1029. Distantly of course.

[Cumansky]

The jury's not out regarding the story behind the Basques. The language could simply be from out east. Links to Caucasus languages have been proposed. The steppes are just north of the Caucasus -proper. It's totally feasible Caucasian speakers dominated one or more steppe clan. Of course, a Neolithic origin is possible as well. After all, weren't Western European beakers little more than Corded Ware offshoots with a paternal line reflecting hybridization with Yamna? Plus some more assimilated farmer? I suppose it can be and had been argued that the aboriginal component is responsible for the basque language

I2 haplogroup Basques were already in Europe during Paleolithic

They are native, run their clade Phylogeographer..

[Cumansky]

Polish 100% Europe East (AncestryDNA Genetic Community Malopolska)

K47

28.72% East European
13.40% Baltic
12.54% West Finnic
8.16% Scando Germanic
6.99% North Sea Germanic
6.70% Celtic
5.75% North Caucasian
4.14% North Iberian
3.44% Central Mediterranean
3.10% Paleo Balkan
2.69% East Iberian
1.83% North African
1.01% Pamirian
0.49% South African Hunter Gatherer
0.44% Kushitic
0.41% West Mediterranean
0.24% Volgan

[Cumansky]

Yellow= Balto Slavic
Green= Unproper Germanic Slavic
Blue= Steppe
Black= Balkan Paleolithic
Red= Turkic
Brown= Jewish

Do you agree this summary or no? Share opinion..