Are Lebanese Arabs?

[Babak]

It promotes the view that Lebanese people, or sometimes exclusively just Lebanese Christians, are not Arabs and that the Lebanese speak a distinct language and have their own culture, separate from that of the surrounding Middle Eastern countries. Supporters of this theory of Lebanese ethnogenesis maintain that the Lebanese are descended from Phoenicians and are not Arabs. Some also maintain that Levantine Arabic is not an Arabic variety, rather a variation of Neo-Aramaic, but has become a distinctly separate language.

Proponents claim that the land of Lebanon has been inhabited uninterruptedly since Phoenician times, and that the current population descends from the original population, with some admixture due to immigration over the centuries. They argue that Arabization merely represented a shift to the Arabic language as the vernacular of the Lebanese people, and that, according to them, no actual shift of ethnic identity, much less ancestral origins, occurred. In light of this "old controversy about identity",[4] some Lebanese prefer to see Lebanon, Lebanese culture and themselves as part of "Mediterranean" and "Canaanite" civilization, in a concession to Lebanon's various layers of heritage, both indigenous, foreign non-Arab, and Arab. Some consider addressing all Lebanese as Arabs somewhat insensitive, and prefer to call them Lebanese as a sign of respect of Lebanon's long non-Arabic past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicianism

[Phenix]

The whole clash between arabism and phoenicianism is political with a grain of religious rivalry opposing muslims and christians, MENA phantom states suffered for a long time from an absence of ideological cap that could lead them to social progress, this vacancy evolved into a rejection of whatever political aspiration or dominant group, creating incessant social tumult, same situation is observable in Maghreb, Egypt, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen.

Dragging the debate to genetics is ridiculous, genetic make-up doesn't change so radically unless a vast campaign of ethnic cleansing is done, which was not the case for Lebanon, the Arabic component is present but the stock is mainly Canaanite or Aramean, and they interacted with no major problems so far that ended up with a good homogeneous demographic structure of the Lebanese population, a Sunni from Beirut is not different to a Greek-orthodox from Tripoli; the clearer thing is the language shift to Arabic, Lebanese mother tongue is actually Arabic with great intelligibility degree to other dialects, other Semitic influence is demonstrable, but the factually it is still considered as a development from classical Arabic.

[Rgvgjhvv]

No

[dark-mysterio]

i have nothing against the op/tread author

but o no not this type of thread again :picard1::icon_lol::icon_arghhh: i hate these tread where it talk about that talk about whatsoever these people are arabs are or not will for my it's more "Grey" than people wo usually follow the two others side one is the black side: they are (or we are) 100/90% Arabic (usually comments made by pan-Arabist or people that believe this or these country outside of the Arabian peninsula is 100% Arabs) the other is the white side: they are not (or we are not) Arabs ethnically (usually commentary made by Berberist and maybe others group such as Phoenicianist or even maybe Pharaonism ? or people that believe that these are not Arabs but Arabized people)

well i personally believe than both ethnics Arabs among both Christians and Muslim and historical autochthonous non-Arabs also among both Christians and Muslim (such as the Copts,Berbers,Armeans...)

and sorry for my english

[Balthier]

Yes.

[Visitor_22]

They seem very different from Gulf arabs who look more Indian/Persian. Lebanese tend to be more Med looking.

[StonyArabia]

Lebanese Muslims are the same as Christian Lebanese there is no genetic difference between them. Some Muslims Lebanese group seem more European shifted. Da Christian Lebs are Phoenician and Lebanese Muslims are Arabs is nothing short of BS created by the French colonials. It’s a French myth. Never mind that pre-Bronze age Levant was Arabian like. Many Christian Lebanese descent from these Arabian tribes some Tayy clans, Ghassanids, Banu Makhzum a Qurashi clan, Banu Taghlib, well others descent from Arameans and Assyrians, of course they did not keep those tribal identities and they became family names. M Many Christian Lebanese think their special because the French told them to lol. Now I even see morons claiming Shia Lebanese are Persian, wtf. It was Lebanese clerks who brought 12er Shiaism to Iran. Basically Lebanese Muslim and Christians are the same people divided by religion nothing more and nothing less.

[Babak]

Lebanese Muslims are the same as Christian Lebanese there is no genetic difference between them. Some Muslims Lebanese group seem more European shifted. Da Christian Lebs are Phoenician and Lebanese Muslims are Arabs is nothing short of BS created by the French colonials. It’s a French myth. Never mind that pre-Bronze age Levant was Arabian like. Many Christian Lebanese descent from these Arabian tribes some Tayy clans, Ghassanids, Banu Makhzum a Qurashi clan, Banu Taghlib, well others descent from Arameans and Assyrians, of course they did not keep those tribal identities and they became family names. M Many Christian Lebanese think their special because the French told them to lol. Now I even see morons claiming Shia Lebanese are Persian, wtf. It was Lebanese clerks who brought 12er Shiaism to Iran. Basically Lebanese Muslim and Christians are the same people divided by religion nothing more and nothing less.

Yea lebanese shias were not persians lol

[StonyArabia]

Yea lebanese shias were not persians lol

Exactly. Christians are not Phoenicians either. They can dream they are, but it will remain a dream.

[Odelia]

Exactly. Christians are not Phoenicians either. They can dream they are, but it will remain a dream.
Then who the fuck are modern day Phoenicians? Pakistanis? :coffee:

[Rostos vilmoskörte]

Muslims yes, christians no.

[oszkar07]

Isn't Lebanon a young country.

Did they previously see themselves as Syrians ?

What is the difference between Lebanese and Syrians ?

[TheForeigner]

Of course they're Arabs. Their mother tongue is Arabic and has been for many centuries. Also, their ancestry is chiefly Semitic and probably includes blood from real Arab tribes too, as Arabian tribes were already settled in the Levant in late ancient times. By the late Roman era the Arabs in this region were even Christian.

[Pulsa Dinura]

Of course they're Arabs. Their mother tongue is Arabic and has been for many centuries.
They were not Arabs before the Arab invasion in 637 CE, should they change their identity after that date?

Before Egypt fell to Arabs in 639 CE, Egyptians spoke Coptic, and Copts were not Arab.
Even the Arabic word “Misr” (Egypt) is from Hebrew origin and has no meaning in Arabic.

Speaking the language would make them Arabophones or Arabic speaking people, not Arabs.

Are Americans, Australians, Nigerians, Ghanaians, Namibians, Liberians, Jamaicans, and Singaporeans English because they speak English?

Are Brazilians, Angolans, Cape Verdeans and Mozambicans Portuguese because they speak Portuguese?

Are Mexicans, Columbians, Argentinians, Peruvians, Venezuelans, Chileans, Ecuadorians, Cubans and Bolivians Spanish because they speak Spanish?

Are Canadians (Quebec), Belgians, Congolese, Cameroonians, Senegalese and Malagasy French because they speak French?

What if a new superpower (let’s say China) invade us, impose their language, culture and religion...would we become Chinese and embrace the new identity?



Also, their ancestry is chiefly Semitic and probably includes blood from real Arab tribes too

"Semite" is a language group, not a racial, religious or ethnic group. Maybe you meant Semitic speaking people, not Semitic people. Your "Semites" never referred to themselves as "Semites" (since this terminology was first used in the 1770).

Egyptians were Hamites until they became Semitized with the advent of Islam.

Should Jews for instance, who lived under Arab/Ottoman rule and who spoke Arabic should also be called Arabs because they spoke Arabic, were levantines and "Semites".




As Arabian tribes were already settled in the Levant in late ancient times.

What was the name of their main cities, outside the desert?


By the late Roman era the Arabs in this region were even Christian.

The full translation of the Bible into Arabic did not come about until nearly 150 years ago.
The fact that there is no Arab Church with specific cultural identifiers such as Christian Arab style church buildings, Arab vestments, Arab iconology or traditions is a proof that this so-called church never existed in the same sense like the others.

There are no Arabic versions of the Bible previous to Islam, a fact which proves irrefragably that in its primitive period Christianity had secured no footing at all among the Arabs.

[Guti]

Doesn't really matter. They are Semitic. They were Semitics before the Arabian Caliphates and they stayed Semitics after the Arabisation.

[Guti]

The difference between modern and ancient times is that the Levant has a lot Armenian and Iranic (Kurdic) DNA. There are many Armenians living in the Levant/Lebanon, but not only that. After Saladin many Kurdish knights stayed in Palestina and Lebanon.


What many people don't know is that Palestinians have a lot Kurdic DNA left by the Kurdish knights after the Crusaders were defeated.


Kurds in Palestine, Palestinians who are of Kurdish ancestry.

The origins of some Palestinian Kurds can be traced to the era of conquests of Kurdish Ayyubid dynasty during the Crusades. The Ayyubid rulers settled many Kurdish tribes in Palestine in order to secure the borders of their empire. Among the major settlements with Kurdish communities in Palestine are city of Hebron (al-Khalil), Jerusalem (al-Quds) and Shechem (Nablus).

There are also many Kurdish clans who came to Palestine at post-Ayyubid periods, especially under the Ottomans. The Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in the West Bank.

Some claim that as much as one third of inhabitants of Hebron are of Kurdish origin, where they have had their own quarters, such as Harat al-Akrad (English: Quarter of Kurds).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds_in_Palestine#:~:text=Among%20the%20major%20s ettlements%20with,minority%20in%20the%20West%20Ban k.

[Fortnite777]

Then who the fuck are modern day Phoenicians? Pakistanis? :coffee:

I mean, nobody really is. But Druze and Samaritans are the closest. Alawites too.

[Babak]

Alright guys, this question has been answered. Gonna close it