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View Full Version : Are the Irish mostly Picts?



Peterski
04-04-2019, 09:20 AM
Check this theory by Michal, according to which British Bell Beakers with R1b-L21 haplogroup could be Proto-Picts:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?16682-The-genomic-history-of-the-Iberian-Peninsula-over-the-past-8000-years&p=558518&viewfull=1#post558518

"Here is my hypothetical scenario for sequential dispersal of different Italo-Celtic languages (all likely associated with R1b-P312) that are either known to us or are suspected of having been spoken in certain specific regions.

Bell Beakers
Ligurian, Lusitanian, Elymian?, Pre-Pictish/Old Pictish?

Urnfield
Italic (including Venetic), Nordwestblock

Hallstatt
Q-Celtic (Goidelic, Celtiberian)

La Tene
P-Celtic (Gaulish, Brythonic)"

Peterski
04-04-2019, 09:26 AM
So Picts were probably the first Indo-European speakers in Britain & Ireland, and they inhabited all of the British Isles before Celticization.

J. Ketch
04-04-2019, 09:47 AM
No. They're Irish. Picts were Northern Britons.


So Picts were probably the first Indo-European speakers in Britain & Ireland, and they inhabited all of the British Isles before Celticization.
???

Why not just call them Bell Beakers, Picts refers to the Iron Age/Early Medieval Britons of NE Scotland, who were surely Celtic(ised) as well.

Peterski
04-04-2019, 10:40 AM
Picts were Celticized? I don't think so. Pictish was probably another Indo-European language albeit closely related to other Italo-Celtic languages.

J. Ketch
04-04-2019, 01:18 PM
Picts were Celticized? I don't think so. Pictish was probably another Indo-European language albeit closely related to other Italo-Celtic languages.
If Picts were like un-Celticised Irish it would be evident in the genetics somehow. As it happens formerly Pictish Northern Scotland clusters more with Northern England/Wales than with Ireland, unlike Gaelic Southwest Scots.

Imperator Biff
04-05-2019, 01:40 PM
Pictish is classified as a Brythonic ergo P-Celtic language by most linguists nowadays.

I sincerely doubt the Copper/Bronze Age British beakers spoke anything akin to Celtic.

Proto-Shaman
04-05-2019, 02:11 PM
Picts were Turanians, so were Celts. Ural-Altaics 4ever.