Vlachs are the same people as Albanians

[North Sea]

Vlachs/Aromanians etc are the same people as Albanians or share a common origin and prior to Roman occupation we spoke a similar language. Only Vlachs got more Romanised and eventually Slavicised / or they absorbed a lot of Slavs. Proto Romanians were also related people.

There are genetic and linguistic studies that show the relationship between us. I also saw now that some Vlachs also tested for the haplogroup J2b2 L283 . Only they did not test positive for PH1751 which is a common Albanian subclade, this means that the reationship between some of us is more ancient.

[North Sea]

Vlachs tested positive for PH2967 which is also common in Albos

[GreentheViper]

I am Vlach

[North Sea]

I am Vlach

I would like to see more DNA studies on Vlachs . Atleast the ones that have less Slavic influence. They seem to share some markers with Albos. Some of this could very well be ancient.


Romanised people that lived in Bosnia , Croatia etc would of been seperated by us for thousands of years so they should belong to different clades but still a common origin I suppose. The ones that live closest to Albanian inhabited lands woild be the closest to us.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Similar but not the same. Vlachs are mostly J2a like Greeks and not J2b like Albos iirc. They got stronger Slav input also. What they share is lot of eastern R1b and some E-V13, I guess.

[North Sea]

Similar but not the same. Vlachs are mostly J2a like Greeks and not J2b like Albos iirc. They got stronger Slav input also. What they share is lot of eastern R1b and some E-V13, I guess.

They also share J2b2 L283 from a study I saw , an old study, mentioned by an Albanian member Trojet aho runs a DNA project, though its in Albanian.

http://www.foleja.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=crkcr7itmuc84pf7vtdgakqe57&topic=506.msg6497#new

They could very well be bottleneck effects though


Proto Vlachs and Proto Albanians shared a common origin we can agree on.

[Pribislav]

...

[Pribislav]

Similar but not the same. Vlachs are mostly J2a like Greeks and not J2b like Albos iirc. They got stronger Slav input also. What they share is lot of eastern R1b and some E-V13, I guess.

Wrong.
Vlachs have more J2b-M241 than J2a.

Y dna of Aromanians (sample 207)

R1b - 21.25% (eastern 17.87%, western 3.38%)
J2b-M241 - 14.98%
I2-YP196 - 14.98%
E-V13 - 14.98%
R1a - 10.14%
J2a - 9.18%
I1 - 3.38%
I2-M223 - 2.42%
G1 - 1.93%
G2a - 1.45%
N1c - 0.97%
T - 0.97%
C-V20 - 0.97%
E-V22 - 0.97%
E-M81 - 0.48%
J1 - 0.48%
J2b - M205 - 0.48%

https://i.postimg.cc/J0q49gjv/cincari-statistika.jpg

[oszkar07]

Vlachs/Aromanians etc are the same people as Albanians or share a common origin and prior to Roman occupation we spoke a similar language. Only Vlachs got more Romanised and eventually Slavicised / or they absorbed a lot of Slavs. Proto Romanians were also related people.

There are genetic and linguistic studies that show the relationship between us. I also saw now that some Vlachs also tested for the haplogroup J2b2 L283 . Only they did not test positive for PH1751 which is a common Albanian subclade, this means that the reationship between some of us is more ancient.

I wouldnt be suprised, this idea has been around for a while, and there are linguistic connections also.

[Aspar]

It seems that many y-dna lineages Vlachs share with Macedonians and Bulgarians.
Particularly subclades under E-V13 like Z17264, Y16729 and others.
Under J2a, like J2-L70.
R1b, Eastern branches and I suspect that their I2a Dinaric is from the Eastern Balkan branch, Z17855.
Overall, the Vlachs show more kinship with Macedonians and Bulgarians than with Greeks and Albanians.

[Aromanian]

Ive seen so many Albanians on this forum calling Aromanians gypsies and using pistures from the 1800s in black and white as proof; it’s honestly so sad considering albanians and aromanians (some people think all vlachs are aromanians NO) have been living together since the beggining. Imagine I use old pictures of albos as evidence of them being gypsies; how ridiculous . Or maybe I can use the Italian exodus video where they all look like gypsies. Here is a video of an aromanian singer and dance group that is recent and not a 1800s black and white picture : https://youtu.be/-r9JZCZ8vF0

[justTosee]

Albania :lol:


Who gives a flying SHIT about this country ?

[Blondie]

Ive seen so many Albanians on this forum calling Aromanians gypsies and using pistures from the 1800s in black and white as proof; it’s honestly so sad considering albanians and aromanians (some people think all vlachs are aromanians NO) have been living together since the beggining. Imagine I use old pictures of albos as evidence of them being gypsies; how ridiculous . Or maybe I can use the Italin exodus video where they all look like gypsies. Here is a video of an aromanian singer and dance group that is recent and not a 1800s black and white picture : https://youtu.be/-r9JZCZ8vF0

I don't understand it, in the reality vlachs are lighter than albanians who are the darkest ethnic group in Europe.

[Aromanian]

:)

[Pribislav]

So true ! I am an aromanian my self , lived with aromanians all my life . Most of us vary from blonde to dark brown and you can even find light russian looking aromanians. I dont understand the need of people to use old pictures as if aromanians are now extint. Just google “old albanians” and look at how dark they look but I wont use those pictures to classify them because it is not fair. Every single section I read about aromanians is albanians calling them gypsies when they havent even met vlachs in their real life; using pictures from when people didn’t even have cellphones.

Do you think that Aromanians and Romanians are same people like many Romanians claim?

[ixulescu]

Do you think that Aromanians and Romanians are same people like many Romanians claim?

I don't think any Romanian claims that.
Aromanians and Romanians are related populations but not the same. Both are types of Vlachs, which are the Latinophone populations of the Balkans.

[Aromanian]

I think they are related but not the same people; aromanians have always been South of danube and language wise althought quite similar they are not the same langauge. A lot of people claim Aromanian is a dialect of Romanian ; I disagree aromanians has its own dialects such as Fraserot and Grameoustan. I have a picture with a prayer in Romanian and aromanian that I cant upload cause of size. I will try and upload it later from my laptop and you will see that they are not the same language. Even appearance wise I can tell an aromanian from a romanian. I struggle to understand romanian I can only pick up a few words and guess the sentence.87338

[Adam Janossy]

Albanian has much narrower meaning than Vlach. Imagine Vlachs as huge sea of Romance speakers all over southeastern Europe, and Albanians as small group that avoided romanisation on high mountains of western Balkan.

[ixulescu]

Albanian has much narrower meaning than Vlach. Imagine Vlachs as huge sea of Romance speakers all over southeastern Europe, and Albanians as small group that avoided romanisation on high mountains of western Balkan.

That's how it was historically. But Albanians managed to create a state, so numerically the situation is reversed now (I'm excluding Romanians here). In the countries that are south of Danube, Vlachs are almost completely assimilated today.

[Aromanian]

..

[Aromanian]

There are a few of us that haven’t assimilated , we still speak the language thank god !

[Skerdilaid]

Only some Vlahs/Aromanians from Albania. Not all of them. The Vlahs of Greece to a great extent and Macedonia don’t seem to share any ancestry with us for example.

[Pribislav]

Albanian has much narrower meaning than Vlach. Imagine Vlachs as huge sea of Romance speakers all over southeastern Europe, and Albanians as small group that avoided romanisation on high mountains of western Balkan.

In the middle age Albanians were small ethnic group living in Mati region in Albania mostly.

[Bosniensis]

In the middle age Albanians were small ethnic group living in Mati region in Albania mostly.

In 6th century Serbs came to Balkans where Albanians lived.

Albania was up to Belgrade, they were all speaking Old Illyrian Latin

[Pribislav]

In 6th century Serbs came to Balkans where Albanians lived.

Albania was up to Belgrade, they were all speaking Old Illyrian Latin

Idiot!

This is Illyrian Latin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJSk12qgZM

Speakers of Dalmatian (Italic) language lived on the East Adriatic coast, and they were slavized during the middle age.

[Bosniensis]

Idiot!

This is Illyrian Latin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJSk12qgZM

Speakers of Dalmatian (Italic) language lived on the East Adriatic coast, and they were slavized during the middle age.

upeco se ko muha na govno

[Bosniensis]

Serbs are foreigners on Balkans!

[Pribislav]

Serbs are foreigners on Balkans!

Says islamized Serb with identity crisis. :lol:

[Dick]

Serbs are foreigners on Balkans!

Serbs are mostly haplogroup I and I-M170 is indigenous to Serbia


https://i.imgur.com/0CXZmAW.jpg

[Bosniensis]

Serbs are mostly haplogroup I and I-M170 is indigenous to Serbia


https://i.imgur.com/0CXZmAW.jpg

Serbs have Slavic I2a DIN which is from Belarus, Albanians are pure EV13 Ancient Illyrians that ruled balkans and entire world.

[Bosniensis]

Says islamized Serb with identity crisis. :lol:

Says christianized Serb who was molested by Greeks in 8 century who abandoned Slavic religion.

[Moje ime]

Serbs are foreigners on Balkans!

Neka losa rakija danas? xD

[Albobalboa]

Vlachs are the ancient era Balkan Turks. I wish Moscopole still existed as a thriving city so we could raid it again.

[Bosniensis]

Neka losa rakija danas? xD


https://youtu.be/z_PqUNarH4U

[Aromanian]

Will make sure we bring Moscopole back to her glory so you can raid it again.

[Albobalboa]

Will make sure we bring Moscopole back to her glory so you can raid it again.

You won't do shit you little rat. You Vlachs don't even know what you want to be, you were hellenizing the fuck out the area so you had to go.

Anyways fuck Moscopole the long way, in case I didn't get the message through.

Edit: Vlach dominated Moscopole that is. It's probably fine as it is now.

[Aromanian]

Yes Im sure Papa Llambro Ballamaci who got killed by the greeks for doing liturgies in aromanin and albanian was hellenizing the shit out the area. As for your information Moscopole is still inhabited by mostly aromanians.

[Albobalboa]

Yes Im sure Papa Llambro Ballamaci who got killed by the greeks for doing liturgies in aromanin and albanian was hellenizing the shit out the area. As for your information Moscopole is still inhabited by mostly aromanians.

"Llambro Ballamaci was a Vlach priest from Korca that believed in the Albanian identity of the Vlachs. "

He didn't have any Vlach identity, and can barely even be called a "Vlach". The term Vlach simply means latinized native. Some know of their Albanian origin, others, like you, have a specific "Vlach" identity. Same way Balkan Turks insist on calling themselves Turks, even though their genetics are balkan and they were "Turkified".

As for Moscopole

"A printing press was also operating in Moscopole which was the second one in Ottoman Europe (in Turkish: İskopol/Oskopol,[1]) after that of Constantinople. This establishment produced a total of nineteen books, mainly Services to the Saints but also the Introduction of Grammar by the local scholar Theodore Kavalliotis.[8] The later became director of the city's prestigious educational institution, which from 1744 was known as New Academy or Hellenikon Frontistirion, sponsored by the wealthy merchants of the diaspora. Moreover, the city hosted an orphanage, known as Orphanodioiketerion, probably the first in the post-Byzantine Orthodox world,[23] a hospital and a total of 24 churches.[12]

A cultural effervescence arose in Moscopole, and many authors published their works in both the Greek language (which was the language of culture of the Balkans at the time) and Aromanian, written in the Greek alphabet. In 1770, the first dictionary of four modern Balkan languages (Greek, Albanian, Vlach/Aromanian and Bulgarian) was published here. Daniel Moscopolites a Vlach-speaking native priest of Moscopole, compiled a quadrilingual lexicon of Greek, Vlach, Bulgarian and Albanian, that aimed at the hellenization of the non-Greek-speaking Christian communities in the Balkans.[24][25] Due to the high level of intellectual activity and Greek education Moscopole was nicknamed as New Athens or New Mystra.[26][27] As such the city became an important 18th century center of the modern Greek Enlightenment."

They were poison, and Llambro Ballamaci himself would've blessed me for the words I have written on those traitors.

[Aromanian]

Llambro Ballamaci wouldnt even bother with you and he identified as vlach.Obviously there are vlachs that identify as greek and there also ethnic albanians from Himarra that identify as greeks for a little pension. You re generalizing a whole ethnicity based on a few people. I come from Albania and have lived among fellow vlachs and albos all my life ; most vlachs identify as albanian but then there are people like you that call them “poison” based on a few individuals and they get pushed to show empathy for the greeks who atleast consider them equal.

[Pribislav]

Arvanites Albanians are the biggest greecofiles in history.

[Albobalboa]

Arvanites Albanian are the biggest greecofiles in history.

Arvanites lived in Greece for hundreds of years and maintained a unique identity and language, despite pretty much often being in a sea of Hellenes. They were failed by Albanian low IQ which couldn't capitalize on the land through schools/teachings in own language, along with Ottomans which ensured that all orthodox Christians were learning Greek language in church, and thus hellenization happened.

So it's wrong to call them grecofiles, they simply had common struggles and had problems with muslim Albanians as well. Warrior cultures clashed.

[Bosniensis]

Vlachs are Serbs.

How do I know that?

Because that's their name.

Albanians are African immigrants who came on ship 1043 A.D. through Sicily.

[Aromanian]

Agreed.

[Albobalboa]

Llambro Ballamaci wouldnt even bother with you and he identified as vlach.Obviously there are vlachs that identify as greek and there also ethnic albanians from Himarra that identify as greeks for a little pension. You re generalizing a whole ethnicity based on a few people. I come from Albania and have lived among fellow vlachs and albos all my life ; most vlachs identify as albanian but then there are people like you that call them “poison” based on a few individuals and they get pushed to show empathy for the greeks who atleast consider them equal.

Throw the Vlach down the well. As I said, you are the ancient era Balkan Turks. The sooner all of you start identifying as Greeks the sooner Albania can accurately identify the cancer within the country.

Ballamaci probably wasn't even Vlach, simply latin speaking Albanian or with latin derived name.

[Pribislav]

Vlachs are Serbs.

How do I know that?

Because that's their name.

Albanians are African immigrants who came on ship 1043 A.D. through Sicily.

Serbian medieval social caste vlach (with small v) were ethnic Serbs.

Vlachs (with big V) were not Serbs, but Romanians, Aromanians, Megleno-Vlachs, Istro-Vlachs and other Balkan Latin speakers.

[Aromanian]

You re a joke ���� Ballamaci was a vlach whether you like that or not; “latin speaking albanian” on your previous reply you said “atleast some vlachs recognize their albanian roots” , so yeh my friend he was a vlach. You should worry about the “greeks” from Himarra and Gjirokaster ; most vlachs from albania identify as albanian. Your country won’t be free by throwing vlachs down the well , it will be free when albos stop being patriotic on the net and actually start investing in their country.

[Bosniensis]

Serbian medieval social caste vlach (with small v) were ethnic Serbs.

Vlachs (with big V) were not Serbs, but Romanians, Aromanians, Megleno-Vlachs, Istro-Vlachs and other Balkan Latin speakers.

Deretić says that Vlachs are Serbs, that Latin is old Serbian language so they are old Serbs don't separate those two.

[Pribislav]

Deretić says that Vlachs are Serbs, that Latin is old Serbian language so they are old Serbs don't separate those two.

Deretić has huge imagination.

You think on this his claim.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3AxvQlWkN4&t=109s

[Dorian]

When we learn from where Albanians came from ,we can talk about the rest "Albanians".

[cheekibreeki]

When we learn from where Albanians came from ,we can talk about the rest "Albanians".

Greeks are our bastards , if we came from somewhere you guys came with us .

[Dorian]

Greeks are our bastards , if we came from somewhere you guys came with us .

Eat some bean soup,it's good for you...
Unless you have solved this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox

[TheMaestro]

Vlachs are Serbs.

How do I know that?

Because that's their name.

Albanians are African immigrants who came on ship 1043 A.D. through Sicily.

Fake they came year later, because we took over the ship and made a round trip around Africa, so it would be 1044-1045 A.D.

[valentinavalley2]

Idiot!

This is Illyrian Latin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYJSk12qgZM

Speakers of Dalmatian (Italic) language lived on the East Adriatic coast, and they were slavized during the middle age.

Original Dalmatae spoke Illyrian language.


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[Achaean]

Original Dalmatae spoke Illyrian language.


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who cares what they spoke or who they were, land has no meaning if you dont do anything with it, not to mention that we don't even know anything about them.
Today some land may be yours and tomorrow it may belong to others, its what history you had on it that matters.

[valentinavalley2]

who cares what they spoke or who they were, land has no meaning if you dont do anything with it, not to mention that we don't even know anything about them.
Today some land may be yours and tomorrow it may belong to others, its what history you had on it that matters.

Actually they did a lot, until the Romans came invaded and attacked.


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[WeirdLookingFellow]

Deretić has huge imagination.

You think on this his claim.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3AxvQlWkN4&t=109s

170 of occupation could not have destroyed the proto Serbian language that was supposedly being spoken before latinization and Vlachs would have just returned to speaking a proto-Slavic language influenced by latin instead of the other way around. Funny video of course.

[Xz2k9]

It seems that many y-dna lineages Vlachs share with Macedonians and Bulgarians.
Particularly subclades under E-V13 like Z17264, Y16729 and others.
Under J2a, like J2-L70.
R1b, Eastern branches and I suspect that their I2a Dinaric is from the Eastern Balkan branch, Z17855.
Overall, the Vlachs show more kinship with Macedonians and Bulgarians than with Greeks and Albanians.


The Vlach languages show kinship with the Albanian language closer than any other Balkan languages or people. Vlachs most certainly aren't Greeks. It's just Greek propaganda. Same way they claim Arvanite as Greek.


Some of the kinship in Y-DNA with Macedonians and Bulgarians is mostly from assimilation in certain areas. Some of them also show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians depending on what regions but this could also be due to assimilation i.e some Albanians becoming Vlachs.


Even Romanian language shows a lot of kinship with Albanian. Proto-Romanian must of been very similar to Albanian. I believe Proto-Romanian language is from Thracian and Albanian from Illyrian and that they possibly were mutually intelligible languages and lived next to each other around Macedonia and Kosovo region prior to the Slavic invasions. Proto-Romanians mostly inhabited the Eastern Balkans and Proto-Albanians the Western Balkans.

Most of the living Vlach languages belong to East Latin and so does Romanian and they show a common origin with Romanian. So they possibly came from the East. Genetics mostly show Albanians to be West Balkan people.

Thunmann claimed Vlachs to be Thracians that came from the East Balkans and Albanians as Illyrians, the same thing was claimed by some Byzantium sources:

''I would now like to turn to the actual history of the Albanians and of the country they inhabit. They are the descendents of the ancient Illyrians, whereas their neighbours, the Vlachs, whose ancient history I will deal with later, are the children of the Thracians. I will try to prove these statements as best I can.''

http://www.albanianhistory.net/1774_Thunmann/index.html


It's well known that many Vlachs that live in Macedonia, Greece and South Albania came from the Eastern Balkans including some Aromanians. This is how they show kinship in Y-DNA with Bulgarians possibly. Macedonians were just Bulgarians not so long ago and many of them came from Bulgaria and migrated into Macedonia. Some are just local assimilated Albanians.


Kinda ironic considering the Slavs claim Albanians are immigrants in Kosovo and Macedonia when it's obvious the Slavs there are immigrants themselves. And even their so called Native genes don't seem to be from Macedonia or Kosovo in origin for the most part as you said yourself.


But in my opinion, Vlach is just a term for Latinized people of the Balkans.

Some Vlachs in Hercegovina, Montenegro or Dalmatia or Albania are from Latinized Illyrians and not Thracians and should show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians. Speaking strictly in terms of Y-DNA and going by the ancient samples found in Croatia. But it could have also changed over time from a bottle neck effect of course. They most of also spoken a language similar to Proto-Albanian.

We even have evidence of a Romanized population in Northern Albania and even Montenegro. These people obviously shared more of a common origin with Albos. Some families in these areas even were bilingual and spoke Latin and Albanian.


Though Y-DNA isn't the only kinship, how about over all autosomal or even language ? They would show closer kinship to Albanians in that regard. Both the ones from the East and West.


Both Macedonians and Bulgarians are more Slavic shifted than Albanians.


There are Macedonians and Bulgarians that are as Slavic as Serbs. Same way there are Romanians.




Though many Macedonians, Bulgarians and even Romanians even cluster with Albanians.



Y-DNA is a different ball game, if you look at the over all picture you see that these people are over all closer to Albanians, weather they are Romanized Thracians or Illyrians, and share a common ancient origin and their similarities with some South-Slavs such as Y-DNA and Autosomal is mostly due to heavy assimilation.


There were Latin speakers in Kosovo and in Macedonia but they certainly aren't the same as the ones that live there today that came from more East and are more similar to Romanian, those native latin people in Kosovo mostly fled into Northern Albania and it's those type of Latin speakers that possibly had influence on Albanians as claimed even by some Romanian scholars rather than Romanian directly.

[valentinavalley2]

The Vlach languages show kinship with the Albanian language closer than any other Balkan languages or people. Vlachs most certainly aren't Greeks. It's just Greek propaganda. Same way they claim Arvanite as Greek.


Some of the kinship in Y-DNA with Macedonians and Bulgarians is mostly from assimilation in certain areas. Some of them also show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians depending on what regions but this could also be due to assimilation i.e some Albanians becoming Vlachs.


Even Romanian language shows a lot of kinship with Albanian. Proto-Romanian must of been very similar to Albanian. I believe Proto-Romanian language is from Thracian and Albanian from Illyrian and that they possibly were mutually intelligible languages and lived next to each other around Macedonia and Kosovo region prior to the Slavic invasions. Proto-Romanians mostly inhabited the Eastern Balkans and Proto-Albanians the Western Balkans.

Most of the living Vlach languages belong to East Latin and so does Romanian and they show a common origin with Romanian. So they possibly came from the East. Genetics mostly show Albanians to be West Balkan people.

Thunmann claimed Vlachs to be Thracians that came from the East Balkans and Albanians as Illyrians, the same thing was claimed by some Byzantium sources:

''I would now like to turn to the actual history of the Albanians and of the country they inhabit. They are the descendents of the ancient Illyrians, whereas their neighbours, the Vlachs, whose ancient history I will deal with later, are the children of the Thracians. I will try to prove these statements as best I can.''

http://www.albanianhistory.net/1774_Thunmann/index.html


It's well known that many Vlachs that live in Macedonia, Greece and South Albania came from the Eastern Balkans including some Aromanians. This is how they show kinship in Y-DNA with Bulgarians possibly. Macedonians were just Bulgarians not so long ago and many of them came from Bulgaria and migrated into Macedonia. Some are just local assimilated Albanians.


Kinda ironic considering the Slavs claim Albanians are immigrants in Kosovo and Macedonia when it's obvious the Slavs there are immigrants themselves. And even their so called Native genes don't seem to be from Macedonia or Kosovo in origin for the most part as you said yourself.


But in my opinion, Vlach is just a term for Latinized people of the Balkans.

Some Vlachs in Hercegovina, Montenegro or Dalmatia or Albania are from Latinized Illyrians and not Thracians and should show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians. Speaking strictly in terms of Y-DNA and going by the ancient samples found in Croatia. But it could have also changed over time from a bottle neck effect of course. They most of also spoken a language similar to Proto-Albanian.

We even have evidence of a Romanized population in Northern Albania and even Montenegro. These people obviously shared more of a common origin with Albos. Some families in these areas even were bilingual and spoke Latin and Albanian.


Though Y-DNA isn't the only kinship, how about over all autosomal or even language ? They would show closer kinship to Albanians in that regard. Both the ones from the East and West.


Both Macedonians and Bulgarians are more Slavic shifted than Albanians.


There are Macedonians and Bulgarians that are as Slavic as Serbs. Same way there are Romanians.




Though many Macedonians, Bulgarians and even Romanians even cluster with Albanians.



Y-DNA is a different ball game, if you look at the over all picture you see that these people are over all closer to Albanians, weather they are Romanized Thracians or Illyrians, and share a common ancient origin and their similarities with some South-Slavs such as Y-DNA is mostly due to assimilation.

The theory is that Thracian and Illyrian probably had a common ancestor and broke into two... hence why Vlach has a lot of words similar to Albanian which is not of Latin origin.


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[Dorian]

It's possible ,we know albos came from dacia ,we need to solve the vlach mystery next ,If they are too from north Balkans we will need samples of both along with Nova&Vetus Epirus ones to split the albo/vlach components from Byzantine south Balkans.

[valentinavalley2]

It's possible ,we know albos came from dacia ,we need to solve the vlach mystery next ,If they are too from north Balkans we will need samples of both along with Nova&Vetus Epirus ones to split the albo/vlach components from Byzantine south Balkans.

Albanians came from Illyria not Dacia...


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[Achaean]

The Vlach languages show kinship with the Albanian language closer than any other Balkan languages or people. Vlachs most certainly aren't Greeks. It's just Greek propaganda. Same way they claim Arvanite as Greek.


Some of the kinship in Y-DNA with Macedonians and Bulgarians is mostly from assimilation in certain areas. Some of them also show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians depending on what regions but this could also be due to assimilation i.e some Albanians becoming Vlachs.


Even Romanian language shows a lot of kinship with Albanian. Proto-Romanian must of been very similar to Albanian. I believe Proto-Romanian language is from Thracian and Albanian from Illyrian and that they possibly were mutually intelligible languages and lived next to each other around Macedonia and Kosovo region prior to the Slavic invasions. Proto-Romanians mostly inhabited the Eastern Balkans and Proto-Albanians the Western Balkans.

Most of the living Vlach languages belong to East Latin and so does Romanian and they show a common origin with Romanian. So they possibly came from the East. Genetics mostly show Albanians to be West Balkan people.

Thunmann claimed Vlachs to be Thracians that came from the East Balkans and Albanians as Illyrians, the same thing was claimed by some Byzantium sources:

''I would now like to turn to the actual history of the Albanians and of the country they inhabit. They are the descendents of the ancient Illyrians, whereas their neighbours, the Vlachs, whose ancient history I will deal with later, are the children of the Thracians. I will try to prove these statements as best I can.''

http://www.albanianhistory.net/1774_Thunmann/index.html


It's well known that many Vlachs that live in Macedonia, Greece and South Albania came from the Eastern Balkans including some Aromanians. This is how they show kinship in Y-DNA with Bulgarians possibly. Macedonians were just Bulgarians not so long ago and many of them came from Bulgaria and migrated into Macedonia. Some are just local assimilated Albanians.


Kinda ironic considering the Slavs claim Albanians are immigrants in Kosovo and Macedonia when it's obvious the Slavs there are immigrants themselves. And even their so called Native genes don't seem to be from Macedonia or Kosovo in origin for the most part as you said yourself.


But in my opinion, Vlach is just a term for Latinized people of the Balkans.

Some Vlachs in Hercegovina, Montenegro or Dalmatia or Albania are from Latinized Illyrians and not Thracians and should show kinship in Y-DNA with Albanians. Speaking strictly in terms of Y-DNA and going by the ancient samples found in Croatia. But it could have also changed over time from a bottle neck effect of course. They most of also spoken a language similar to Proto-Albanian.

We even have evidence of a Romanized population in Northern Albania and even Montenegro. These people obviously shared more of a common origin with Albos. Some families in these areas even were bilingual and spoke Latin and Albanian.


Though Y-DNA isn't the only kinship, how about over all autosomal or even language ? They would show closer kinship to Albanians in that regard. Both the ones from the East and West.


Both Macedonians and Bulgarians are more Slavic shifted than Albanians.


There are Macedonians and Bulgarians that are as Slavic as Serbs. Same way there are Romanians.




Though many Macedonians, Bulgarians and even Romanians even cluster with Albanians.



Y-DNA is a different ball game, if you look at the over all picture you see that these people are over all closer to Albanians, weather they are Romanized Thracians or Illyrians, and share a common ancient origin and their similarities with some South-Slavs such as Y-DNA and Autosomal is mostly due to heavy assimilation.


There were Latin speakers in Kosovo and in Macedonia but they certainly aren't the same as the ones that live there today that came from more East and are more similar to Romanian, those native latin people in Kosovo mostly fled into Northern Albania and it's those type of Latin speakers that possibly had influence on Albanians as claimed even by some Romanian scholars rather than Romanian directly.

There is not a single word among aromanians that exists in albanian and vice-versa and doesnt exist in romanian, because these people never stepped foot in western balkans, their language depending on were they live is a mix of romanian-greek and balkan slav, i can understand some words, some words are greek, other bulgarian ...also aromanians do not come from Romania or from Greece, they are just latinized natives of eastern balkans, we have split from them into our own country that for past milenium had different history, without Dobrogea region Romania would barely have any aromanians today anyway.
And there is no proof of proto-romanians living in macedonia or in western balkans, romanian ethnogenesis happened right here.
Secondly, you say that proto-romanians spoke thracians, very possible, but why proto-albanians must have spoken illyrian and not a proto-thracian language too, perhaps even the same, and you people having split from us at some point?

Vlachs/aromanians do not come from Greece, its obvious, pure greeks are the islanders who are more southern genetically than a greek from Thesalloniki for example exactly because they lack this vlach blood, which are nothing but the huge romanized eastern balkan thracian population.

Slavs are immigrants in western balkans, but without a doubt they have build Kosovo and lived in that region for at least 1500 years, so why does it matter what population predated south slavs?That native population also was absorbed among them and we know nothing about them.Land has no meaning without any history on it, if you think something was yours then you have to show what you have done in it.If you dont think this way then you should also sell your apartment because it belongs to its ex owner and so on...

[vbnetkhio]

The Vlach languages show kinship with the Albanian language closer than any other Balkan languages or people.


Vlach split from Romanian around 1000 years ago so it's the closest to Romanian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanian_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians

[Petros Houhoulis]

Vlachs lived in the same regions with the Albanians in the Central Balkans before either of them begun migrating, but they didn't intermix much and they had a different economy as well. I think there is a paper by Florin Curta on the subject.

[Petros Houhoulis]

The Vlach languages show kinship with the Albanian language closer than any other Balkan languages or people. Vlachs most certainly aren't Greeks. It's just Greek propaganda. Same way they claim Arvanite as Greek.

The claim that the Vlachs are Greeks is not Greek propaganda, but Vlach propaganda, just as the claim that the Arvanites are Greeks is not Greek propaganda but Arvanite propaganda.

Clearly, both groups realized early on where their interests lied in. That's your problem entirely, because I'm pretty sure the whores you sell to foreign people in foreign lands shall be as much ashamed of your heritage as the Arvanites are today of anything Albanian in them!

https://images.ctfassets.net/4wrp2um278k7/1MQ75WKw8wY4wmsaqaIUmU/22bd88bcae38a22843f2e381550c328c/9789053567074-my-name-is-not-natasha.jpg?w=300

In short, stop selling out your own people, if you want to have them! And stop claiming their heritage too!

[catgeorge]

Nope not same people at all.

Vlachs are Cromagnon people not Dinarids.

Hellenism is a Cromagnon culture its not something that is avoidable by blood.

Moscopole (Albanian: Voskopojë; Aromanian: Moscopole; Greek: Μοσχόπολις or Βοσκόπολις; Turkish: İskopol or Oskopol[1]) is a village in Korçë County in southeastern Albania. During the 18th century, it was the cultural and commercial center of the Aromanians.[2] At its peak, in the mid 18th century, it hosted the first printing press in the Ottoman Balkans outside Istanbul, educational institutions and numerous churches[3] and became a leading center of Greek culture.[4][5]

Historians have attributed the decline of the city to a series of raids by Muslim Albanian bandits.[6][7] Moscopole was initially attacked and almost destroyed by those groups in 1769 following the participation of the residents in the preparations for a Greek revolt supported by the Russian Empire.[8] Its destruction culminated with the abandoning and destruction of 1788.[9][10][6] Moscopole, once a prosperous city, was reduced to a small village by Ali Pasha.

[Papură Vodă]

Vlachs/Aromanians etc are the same people as Albanians or share a common origin
is this a theory of yours or a truth that you know?


and prior to Roman occupation we spoke a similar language.
which language? how did you come to this conclusion, what sources? there are also no written sources of any ancient language in the balkans, nothing on dacians, nothing on thracians, nothing on illyrians etc etc, only some toponymes and the rest is speculation more than anything. Smart deductions, that is true, but never will we know for sure exactly what language these ancient people spoke. They don't even know for sure if thracians and dacians spoke a similar language, and if they did, they don't even know if it was their own branch, or if it was close to greek, or slavic etc etc, nothing is known. you claiming to know they spoke the same language, and i assume by that you mean albanian? i need sources to believe you, i need elaboration, otherwise these are just empty statements.


Only Vlachs got more Romanised and eventually Slavicised / or they absorbed a lot of Slavs.
they got romanised-slavicised? what do you mean? i assume you mean that linguistically they got romanised, meaning they spoke and speak an eastern romance language, while culturaly they got slavicised, meaning that they practice slavic traditions, slavic music, slavic cuisine, etc is this what you mean? not sure what else i can understand from your statement. Here's one thing, from a linguistic point of view, romanians and aromanians are ''latins'', while south slavs are ''slavs''. but other than the language, these people share more amongst themselves than they share with people from their own linguistic group. So you can't point your fingers at bulgarians and serbs and call them slavs while pointing your finger at romanians and aromanians and call them latins. culture wise, these people are born from a stock of pastoral people, their culture (clothing, music, cuisine, dances etc) revolves around pastoral life as well, and as for traditions and ancient faiths, be them even incorporated into orthodoxy, sure, they might ressemble in many ways slavic traditions, but you will reach a point where most european traditions and myths actualy share a common origin, so what makes you believe these traditions might be slavic in origin, and simply not ressemble them due to indo-european homogenisation?


Proto Romanians were also related people.
related to whom, albanians? what do you mean by this, they spoke albanian?


There are genetic and linguistic studies that show the relationship between us. I also saw now that some Vlachs also tested for the haplogroup J2b2 L283 . Only they did not test positive for PH1751 which is a common Albanian subclade, this means that the reationship between some of us is more ancient.
Show me these genetic and linguistic studies. I've met this theory from hungarians that supposedly romanians originate with albanians, so far this has turned out to be nothing more but just beer talk. empty statements and theories. Point me towards these studies that you talk about, i want to see them with my own eyes. Show me these presumably blood connection that we have. For as far as i've seen, we romanians look more similar to bulgarians and serbs with some eastern and central european influences, while albanians look very mediteranean, in many cases quite very dark, more so than greeks i would say, and some of the genetic studies that i looked at don't show romanians to have any ties with albanians, again, serbs romanians and bulgarians are closer to eachother.

In what concerns the language, true, there is some common substratum. This common substratum COULD.... i repeat, MIGHT come from the ancient balkan populations, and although signs do point towards that direction, i hardly believe you can take a stance on this and claim this substratum is indeed daco-illyro-thrakic or that this is any proof albanians and the proto-romanians from which romanians and aromanians spawned actualy shared the same language (or that they spoke albanian...).

From what i've seen, though i must admit i'm not extremely educated on this, but as far as my understanding and knowledge goes, culture wise i'd say even in terms of looks and behaviour, albanians tend to be more like greeks. there are some resemblances to montenegrins as well, though i think this might be because of proximity and greek influence again. the ''vlachs'', the aromanians, linguisticaly they share the same origins as romanians. culturaly again, we share the same pastoral culture, in what concerns music dances, looks like some sort of mix between our folk music in romania and greek folk music and dances. The aromanians are quite infleunced by the greeks (depending also of their geographical locations, because not all aromanians are the same, not all what you people call ''vlachs'' are aromanians, many serbs ''vlachs'' for example actualy speak romanian), as opposed to romanians who have more slavic influence. I think what you see in common with albanians is this greek influence.

as for blood, physicaly, again, albanians look closer to greeks than any other balkanic people. as for genetic studies, show me, because from what i've seen romanians and south slavs seem to share a majority of l2a haplogroup and some j2, r1a and r1b admixtures, while albanians seem to have a majority of E haplogroup..