Bulgarian Autosomal (very differing) Results [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Sofia

04-08-2019, 01:22 PM

Hello everyone, first post here!

I am from Bulgaria pretty much and all my recent ancestors are from here. Maternal grandmother from southwest Bulgaria, distant ancestors originally from Kilkis, Greece.
I've noticed significant differences in the results I've received. I trust GEDmatch the most and both FTDNA and MyHeritage seem a bit BS but I'm wondering what your opinions are.

mtDNA: H2a2a1

FTDNA
https://i.imgur.com/0oIMBVv.png

MyHeritage
https://i.imgur.com/XdTvxU3.png
(1.4% Фински is Finnish)

DNA.LAND - 3 different interpretations (used DNA Kit Studio)
https://i.imgur.com/70RW1Ns.png

Eurogenes K36 similarity map
https://i.imgur.com/Oreexzw.png

Eurogenes K13
1 North_Atlantic 26.9
2 Baltic 22.33
3 East_Med 21.27
4 West_Med 16.06
5 West_Asian 9.16
6 Siberian 2
7 Red_Sea 1.27
8 Amerindian 0.56
9 Oceanian 0.29
10 East_Asian 0.11
11 South_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 4.76
2 Bulgarian 5.91
3 Serbian 6.82
4 Greek_Thessaly 10.92
5 Tuscan 13.7
6 North_Italian 13.81
7 Moldavian 13.88
8 Hungarian 13.89
9 Italian_Abruzzo 15.71
10 Austrian 16.04
11 Croatian 16.05
12 West_Sicilian 17.1
13 Central_Greek 17.44
14 French 17.88
15 West_German 18.04
16 East_German 18.23
17 East_Sicilian 18.5
18 Portuguese 18.7
19 Ashkenazi 19.4
20 South_Dutch 19.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.4% Hungarian + 34.6% Italian_Jewish @ 2.74
2 58.6% Hungarian + 41.4% Ashkenazi @ 2.95
3 58.1% South_Italian + 41.9% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.96
4 51.6% East_German + 48.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.23
5 72.6% Greek_Thessaly + 27.4% North_Swedish @ 3.29
6 54.9% Austrian + 45.1% Ashkenazi @ 3.3
7 60.8% Hungarian + 39.2% South_Italian @ 3.31
8 65.8% Hungarian + 34.2% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.34
9 66.1% Hungarian + 33.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.35
10 81.3% Serbian + 18.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.42
11 63% Central_Greek + 37% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.52
12 68% Italian_Abruzzo + 32% Estonian @ 3.56
13 76.7% Serbian + 23.3% Ashkenazi @ 3.61
14 56% Hungarian + 44% Central_Greek @ 3.64
15 81.8% Serbian + 18.2% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.65
16 67.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 32.5% Finnish @ 3.66
17 55.5% Hungarian + 44.5% West_Sicilian @ 3.66
18 74.4% Serbian + 25.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.67
19 65.6% West_Sicilian + 34.4% Finnish @ 3.69
20 57.5% Hungarian + 42.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.7

Dodecad K12b
1 North_European 33.79
2 Atlantic_Med 26.22
3 Caucasus 25.5
4 Southwest_Asian 6.82
5 Gedrosia 4.72
6 Siberian 2.16
7 South_Asian 0.58
8 East_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanians (Behar) 4.58
2 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 5.4
3 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 5.98
4 O_Italian (Dodecad) 13.59
5 Hungarians (Behar) 16.24
6 Greek (Dodecad) 16.89
7 N_Italian (Dodecad) 17.16
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 18.09
9 Tuscan (HGDP) 18.3
10 C_Italian (Dodecad) 18.61
11 North_Italian (HGDP) 20.13
12 German (Dodecad) 21.04
13 French (Dodecad) 23.47
14 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 23.53
15 Sicilian (Dodecad) 23.55
16 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 23.55
17 French (HGDP) 23.57
18 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 23.77
19 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 24.06
20 Dutch (Dodecad) 25.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 35.4% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.74
2 65.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.1% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.16
3 71.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 28.3% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.39
4 59.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 40.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.52
5 69.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 30.7% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.67
6 51% Hungarians (Behar) + 49% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.68
7 72.8% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 27.2% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.72
8 72.2% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 27.8% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.77
9 65.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 34.7% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.81
10 59.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 40.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.86
11 59.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 40.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.94
12 83.8% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 16.2% French (HGDP) @ 2.95
13 89% Romanians (Behar) + 11% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 3.08
14 68.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 31.3% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.1
15 89.1% Romanians (Behar) + 10.9% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.11
16 89.8% Romanians (Behar) + 10.2% Murcia (1000Genomes) @ 3.12
17 65.2% Tuscan (HGDP) + 34.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.12
18 90.6% Romanians (Behar) + 9.4% Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes) @ 3.13
19 88.8% Romanians (Behar) + 11.2% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 3.15
20 87.1% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 12.9% Cataluna (1000Genomes) @ 3.15

MDLP World-22
1 North-East-European 40.44
2 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 29.44
3 West-Asian 14.93
4 Near_East 10.14
5 East-Siberean 1.88
6 Indo-Iranian 0.96
7 North-European-Mesolithic 0.52
8 North-Siberean 0.42
9 Mesoamerican 0.38
10 Indo-Tibetan 0.32
11 Arctic-Amerind 0.28
12 South-America_Amerind 0.18
13 South-African 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Macedonian (derived) 3.77
2 Bulgarian (derived) 3.92
3 Gagauz (derived) 5.43
4 Montenegrin (derived) 5.71
5 Serbian (derived) 6.13
6 Romania (derived) 7.48
7 Bosnian (derived) 9.71
8 Croatian (derived) 11.83
9 German-South (derived) 12.29
10 Hungarian (derived) 12.47
11 Swiss (derived) 12.64
12 Italian_North (derived) 13.09
13 Austrian (derived) 13.43
14 German_V (derived) 13.63
15 Ashkenazim_V (derived) 14.5
16 Provancestralal (derived) 14.77
17 Slovenian (derived) 14.92
18 CEU_V (derived) 15.55
19 German (derived) 15.78
20 Croatian_V (derived) 15.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.1% Greek_Center (derived) + 41.9% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 1.72
2 62% Greek_North (derived) + 38% Sorb (derived) @ 1.77
3 55% Greek_East (derived) + 45% Sorb (derived) @ 1.83
4 51.4% Ukrainian_V (derived) + 48.6% Italian-South (derived) @ 1.83
5 50.5% Italian-Center (derived) + 49.5% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.85
6 53.6% Greek_Center (derived) + 46.4% Ukrainian_V (derived) @ 1.87
7 68.1% Bosnian (derived) + 31.9% Jew_Romania (derived) @ 1.87
8 60.9% Greek_Center (derived) + 39.1% Russian_Center (derived) @ 1.88
9 56.7% Greek_East (derived) + 43.3% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 1.9
10 58.9% Greek_East (derived) + 41.1% Polish (derived) @ 1.92
11 55.7% Greek_East (derived) + 44.3% Belarusian_V (derived) @ 1.92
12 52.8% Italian-South (derived) + 47.2% Ukrainian-East (derived) @ 1.94
13 55.1% Italian-Center (derived) + 44.9% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 1.94
14 65.7% Greek_North (derived) + 34.3% Polish (derived) @ 1.95
15 54.7% Italian-Center (derived) + 45.3% Ukrainian-East (derived) @ 1.95
16 63.2% Greek_Center (derived) + 36.8% Russian (derived) @ 1.96
17 63.6% Greek_North (derived) + 36.4% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 1.96
18 60.3% Greek_Center (derived) + 39.7% Polish (derived) @ 1.97
19 62.7% Greek_North (derived) + 37.3% Belarusian_V (derived) @ 1.98
20 53.2% Italian-South (derived) + 46.8% Russian_cossack (derived) @ 2

puntDNAL K12
1 Anatolian_NF 39.23
2 European_HG 28.2
3 Caucasus_HG 22.78
4 Near_East 6.97
5 Siberian 1.62
6 Amerindian 1.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Albanian 5.02
2 Bulgarian 5.8
3 Greek 6.29
4 Tuscan 6.97
5 Romanian 9.12
6 Italian_Bergamo 9.14
7 Croatian 10.49
8 French 11.53
9 Belgian 12.2
10 Spanish_Southwest 12.61
11 Sicilian_West 13.41
12 German_South 13.79
13 Dutch_South 13.82
14 Spanish_Northeast 14.02
15 Ashkenazi_Jew 14.18
16 Utahn_European 14.48
17 Spanish_Canaries 14.63
18 Sicilian_East 15
19 Hungarian 15.39
20 English_South 16.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.8% Tuscan + 17.2% Finnish @ 1.66
2 82.4% Tuscan + 17.6% Russian @ 1.77
3 80% Tuscan + 20% Mordovian @ 1.9
4 85.1% Bulgarian + 14.9% Sardinian @ 1.91
5 60.4% Dutch_South + 39.6% Turkish_Jew @ 1.95
6 73% French + 27% Assyrian @ 2.09
7 74.9% French + 25.1% Iranian_Jew @ 2.09
8 75.6% French + 24.4% Iraqi_Jew @ 2.09
9 60.8% Tuscan + 39.2% Croatian @ 2.19
10 60.1% Greek + 39.9% Romanian @ 2.25
11 50.9% Utahn_European + 49.1% Sicilian_East @ 2.26
12 81.2% Tuscan + 18.8% Belarusian @ 2.27
13 83.6% Tuscan + 16.4% Estonian @ 2.28
14 52.7% Sicilian_East + 47.3% English_South @ 2.29
15 57.3% Tuscan + 42.7% Romanian @ 2.29
16 71.2% French + 28.8% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.33
17 75.9% French + 24.1% Georgian_Jew @ 2.34
18 69.8% Tuscan + 30.2% Hungarian @ 2.36
19 74.8% Tuscan + 25.2% Czech @ 2.36
20 69.2% Belgian + 30.8% Cypriot @ 2.36

Bosniensis

04-08-2019, 01:25 PM

your FTDNA and MyHeritage are so different like they are showing two different samples.

CommonSense

04-08-2019, 01:27 PM

North Sea

04-08-2019, 01:38 PM

Same Mtdna as me

karakartal

04-08-2019, 01:51 PM

Sofia

04-08-2019, 01:53 PM

Honestly, your results don't really seem out of the ordinary to me. Maybe a bit more shifted towards Romania than the average. The only thing that sort of stands out is the 2% Siberian on all calculators.

Can you post your Eurogenes K15?

Yes, after seeing some Balkan results, I do feel like my results are very normal and the oracles confirm that. I am a bit mad that the commercial servies didn't pick up on the Siberian that gedmatch gives me.
1 North_Sea 18.14
2 East_Med 17.45
3 Atlantic 17.24
4 Baltic 15.77
5 West_Med 11.63
6 West_Asian 9.69
7 Eastern_Euro 6.78
8 Siberian 1.58
9 Red_Sea 1.34
10 Amerindian 0.25
11 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.17
2 Bulgarian 6.15
3 Serbian 7.16
4 Greek_Thessaly 10.49
5 Greek 11.85
6 Austrian 12.56
7 Hungarian 12.6
8 Moldavian 12.62
9 Tuscan 13.04
10 Croatian 13.75
11 North_Italian 13.75
12 Italian_Abruzzo 14.63
13 Central_Greek 16.05
14 Ashkenazi 16.36
15 West_Sicilian 16.38
16 East_German 16.53
17 East_Sicilian 16.87
18 French 17.1
19 Spanish_Galicia 17.97
20 Portuguese 18.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.8% Hungarian + 39.2% South_Italian @ 3.37
2 65% Italian_Abruzzo + 35% Estonian @ 3.77
3 68.7% Greek + 31.3% Swedish @ 3.79
4 56.5% Hungarian + 43.5% Central_Greek @ 3.82
5 54.8% South_Italian + 45.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.91
6 54.1% Hungarian + 45.9% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.92
7 58.3% South_Italian + 41.7% Estonian @ 3.95
8 68.7% Greek + 31.3% North_Swedish @ 4.03
9 55.1% Greek_Thessaly + 44.9% Austrian @ 4.04
10 55.8% South_Italian + 44.2% Finnish @ 4.07
11 59.4% Central_Greek + 40.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 4.13
12 57.9% Hungarian + 42.1% East_Sicilian @ 4.14
13 79.6% Bulgarian + 20.4% West_German @ 4.19
14 51.8% Greek + 48.2% Hungarian @ 4.23
15 66.5% Hungarian + 33.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.28
16 86.1% Bulgarian + 13.9% West_Norwegian @ 4.31
17 71.5% Hungarian + 28.5% Cyprian @ 4.32
18 65.7% Hungarian + 34.3% Italian_Jewish @ 4.33
19 57.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 42.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.35
20 85.9% Bulgarian + 14.1% Orcadian @ 4.36

Seems like the K15 scaled the Siberian a bit down.

your FTDNA and MyHeritage are so different like they are showing two different samples.

I know right, very strange :confused:

Leto

04-08-2019, 02:08 PM

Eurogenes averages:

Bulgarian K13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 24.06
2 North_Atlantic 21.75
3 East_Med 20.12
4 West_Med 17.91
5 West_Asian 11.91
6 Red_Sea 1.95
7 Amerindian 0.57
8 East_Asian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.43
10 Oceanian 0.41
11 Sub-Saharan 0.16
12 Northeast_African 0.11
13 South_Asian 0.11

Bulgarian K15

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 16.38
2 East_Med 16.27
3 Atlantic 15.88
4 West_Med 13.76
5 North_Sea 12.88
6 West_Asian 11.88
7 Eastern_Euro 9.34
8 Red_Sea 2.18
9 Amerindian 0.30
10 Oceanian 0.28
11 South_Asian 0.26
12 Northeast_African 0.18
13 Southeast_Asian 0.17
14 Siberian 0.14
15 Sub-Saharan 0.11

North Sea

04-08-2019, 02:17 PM

Your DNA LAND results are very similar btw , its just read differently. A lot of the Med Islander, South Central Europe and some South Western Europe can be added into Balkan . Its defi nitrly Paleo Balkan ancestry. I have seen ancient Balkan samples score these things and even Albanians. This would make you around 80% Balkan atleast same as that converted file.

FTDNA is more ancient and the Iberia there can be added onto South Eastern Europe. The ASIA MINOR I am not sure about but maybe it too could be added. We used to get it on the old My Origin but not anymore. I just scored 100% South East Euro. This also would make you genetically quite native but with some Slavic.

You are basically a Balkan person with some Slavic ancestry also. Similar to many South Slavs.

MyHeritage is unreliable as their Balkan there is very vague but results there should also be something similar.

Sofia

04-08-2019, 02:18 PM

I'm from Kilkis too. I'm a Balkan Turk.

You must be mixed with Balkan Turks. Your Siberian score is the important score. Maybe you don't mix with Balkan Turks, your siberian score came proto Bulgars.

That is very interesting. I also wanna add that the (2nd) oldest known paternal ancestor(late 19th century, early 20th century) is half Albanian & half Greek (don't know from where), the Greek part being his father. He was from a village in Bulgaria called Mandritsa (the only Albanian village in Bulgaria).

When I was doing the DNA test I was secretly hoping to find Siberian DNA in my results as I am very fond of this geographic region and the native people there. Many people have told me I have East Asian look as well. I don't have epicanthic folds or anything striking, but just a vibe. Maybe something like Kaspias from here but he has A TON of Siberian, Central and East Asian DNA

Leto

04-08-2019, 02:21 PM

When I was doing the DNA test I was secretly hoping to find Siberian DNA in my results as I am very fond of this geographic region and the native people there. Many people have told me I have East Asian look as well. I don't have epicanthic folds or anything striking, but just a vibe. Maybe something like Kaspias from here but he has A TON of Siberian, Central and East Asian DNA
You can send me your photo, I'm curious. You're only about 2% on GEDmatch. I get between 5 and 7% or so but nothing is visible phenotypically.

Sofia

04-08-2019, 03:00 PM

Seya

04-08-2019, 03:04 PM

dosas

04-08-2019, 03:11 PM

That is very interesting. I also wanna add that the (2nd) oldest known paternal ancestor(late 19th century, early 20th century) is half Albanian & half Greek (don't know from where), the Greek part being his father. He was from a village in Bulgaria called Mandritsa (the only Albanian village in Bulgaria).

When I was doing the DNA test I was secretly hoping to find Siberian DNA in my results as I am very fond of this geographic region and the native people there. Many people have told me I have East Asian look as well. I don't have epicanthic folds or anything striking, but just a vibe. Maybe something like Kaspias from here but he has A TON of Siberian, Central and East Asian DNA

My paternal line is from the same place, Ortakoy (Mandritsa was part of it), now Ivaylovgrad. PM me your gedmatch kit no. plx, I want to check if we are related somehow, since I am also trying to find more info on this.

Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić

04-08-2019, 03:42 PM

Cool results mate.

Kaspias

04-08-2019, 03:51 PM

Welcome to the forum. It is good to see a Bulgarian in the genetics forum.

I don't know if you saw but i also got huge Asia Minor in commercial companies' results. I thought it is about Turkmen admixture but apparently, Bulgarians get some too. MyHeritage and FTDNA using the same meta-algorithm with Gedmatch, calculates your result just as Gedmatch calculate your oracle's, giving you the result which gets the closest distance. Ancestry and 23andMe have their specific algorithm which is different than MH and FTDNA, which makes them more accurate. In this sense, i suggest taking MH and FTDNA results as a grain of salt. GEDMatch is always better.

At first i should state you have huge North_Atlantic admixture for a Bulgarian. This makes me think about possible Vlach ancestry. But of course it can be totally random, do you have any ancestry from around Balkan Mountains or Northern-Central Bulgaria(around Veliko Tarnovo)? A mix of Bulgarian from these regions + Greek-Macedonian can give this result. Except that your Siberian is not that typical but still expected and cool.

There is no direct element that makes us think you have Greek or Albanian ancestry. Their admixture must have been absorbed among the Bulgarian gene pool. The only question mark is about North Atlantic. It can be found in high amounts around Central Bulgaria, SW Bulgaria and Macedonia(whole region).

And we have the same mt-DNA. H2a2a1 in Bulgarians most probably came from Proto-Bulgars, of course, this case is not the same for everyone and applies only for Bulgarians. Proto-Bulgar H2a2a1 sample found in a necropolis in Nojarevo, a Turk village between Razgrad and Silistra. Also in a Pomak village in Tuhovishte(Smolyan). (See: https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol_preprints/69/) You can find spreading of H2a2a1 here: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H2a2a1/

Sofia

04-08-2019, 07:42 PM

i doubt. his siberian is pretty low for an east balkanite..nothing special

Isn't the Siberian a lot higher than any (East) Balkan ethnicity average on every GEDmatch calculator's spreadsheet, what do you mean?

Welcome to the forum. It is good to see a Bulgarian in the genetics forum.

I don't know if you saw but i also got huge Asia Minor in commercial companies' results. I thought it is about Turkmen admixture but apparently, Bulgarians get some too. MyHeritage and FTDNA using the same meta-algorithm with Gedmatch, calculates your result just as Gedmatch calculate your oracle's, giving you the result which gets the closest distance. Ancestry and 23andMe have their specific algorithm which is different than MH and FTDNA, which makes them more accurate. In this sense, i suggest taking MH and FTDNA results as a grain of salt. GEDMatch is always better.

At first i should state you have huge North_Atlantic admixture for a Bulgarian. This makes me think about possible Vlach ancestry. But of course it can be totally random, do you have any ancestry from around Balkan Mountains or Northern-Central Bulgaria(around Veliko Tarnovo)? A mix of Bulgarian from these regions + Greek-Macedonian can give this result. Except that your Siberian is not that typical but still expected and cool.

There is no direct element that makes us think you have Greek or Albanian ancestry. Their admixture must have been absorbed among the Bulgarian gene pool. The only question mark is about North Atlantic. It can be found in high amounts around Central Bulgaria, SW Bulgaria and Macedonia(whole region).

And we have the same mt-DNA. H2a2a1 in Bulgarians most probably came from Proto-Bulgars, of course, this case is not the same for everyone and applies only for Bulgarians. Proto-Bulgar H2a2a1 sample found in a necropolis in Nojarevo, a Turk village between Razgrad and Silistra. Also in a Pomak village in Tuhovishte(Smolyan). (See: https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol_preprints/69/) You can find spreading of H2a2a1 here: https://www.yfull.com/mtree/H2a2a1/

Haha yeah, thanks for replying and high-five on the same haplogroup! Yeah, I noticed that 23andMe and Ancestry are better when it comes to autosomal analysis. Will probably do ancestry in the future as the matching is much better due to bigger database. The H2a2a1 spread is a bit weird, isn't it? Most people are from Denmark, Indonesia and The Philippines? Not sure how to read yfull fully, maybe not many people have submitted their data there?

As far as Vlach ancestry - My maternal grandfather is from Vratsa region, don't know much about him. It seems that many people came to Mandritsa from Korçë, Albania which has a big Aromanian community but this was long ago(4 generations), since then he had a bulgarian wife from Panagyurishte where he settled and my father was the first to come in Sofia.

dosas

04-08-2019, 08:15 PM

Mate, I don't know if you got my email but we match on ch15 with estimated generations to mrca=7.1. Will pm you, tomorrow, with more details. :)

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:19 PM

Isn't the Siberian a lot higher than any (East) Balkan ethnicity average on every GEDmatch calculator's spreadsheet, what do you mean?
u only have 2% siberian...how is that high?

Thracian

04-08-2019, 08:28 PM

u only have 2% siberian...how is that high?

He has 2.67% Siberian+East Asian+Amerindian on k13 and as a Balkan Turk I have 3.54% on same calculator. So, I think it is not too low.

@Sofia, I think that you are northwestern shifted Bulgarian and your results are not too different. You can consider 20% Asia Minor as a Southeastern European on FTDNA.

Sofia

04-08-2019, 08:32 PM

u only have 2% siberian...how is that high?

who said it's high, are you high? I said it's higher than any balkan country avgs on gedmatch spreadsheets.

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:32 PM

He has 2.67% Siberian+East Asian+Amerindian on k13 and as a Balkan Turk I have 3.54% on same calculator. So, I think it is not too low.

@Sofia, I think that you are northwestern shifted Bulgarian and your results are not too different. You can consider 20% Asia Minor as a Southeastern European on FTDNA.

wut?? i have over 5%

Neowarior

04-08-2019, 08:35 PM

wut?? i have over 5%

You probably have Tatar mix, as many Rominians. That's the reason why you got unusually high East Eurasian. Yours is a different case.

Thracian

04-08-2019, 08:35 PM

wut?? i have over 5%

Over 5%? Oh. Do you have any South Asian btw?

Mingle

04-08-2019, 08:35 PM

i doubt. his siberian is pretty low for an east balkanite..nothing special

Its not low for a Bulgarian. The Bulgarian East Eurasian average is less than 1% on the spreadsheet. But its still low and doesn't seem anything too out of the ordinary, just a bit higher than average.

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:35 PM

Over 5%? Oh. Do you have any South Asian btw?

0%

Impaler

04-08-2019, 08:36 PM

wut?? i have over 5%

Yes, I don't think 2% Siberian is high for Eastern Balkans. On Eurogenes I have close to 3% and on other calculators I have almost 5%.

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:36 PM

You probably have Tatar mix, as many Rominians. That's the reason why you got unusually high East Eurasian. Yours is a different case.

i don't have tatar admixture

Neowarior

04-08-2019, 08:38 PM

i don't have tatar admixture

You don't have any KNOWN Tatar admixture.

TheBalkanite

04-08-2019, 08:41 PM

Which region of Bulgaria are the rest of your ancestors from except for southeastern Bulgaria.

Thracian

04-08-2019, 08:41 PM

0%

I asked because some Turkic groups mixed with Iranics and they have South Asian admixture. Northern Turkics as well as Finno-Ugrigs didn't mix with Iranic people and they usually have none or negligible South Asian admixture.

Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić

04-08-2019, 08:45 PM

You probably have Tatar mix, as many Rominians. That's the reason why you got unusually high East Eurasian. Yours is a different case.

Romanians probably have highest amount of mongoloid genetics in eastern part of europe. Even Russians have less if you exclude heavily Finnic ones in north and east.

Neowarior

04-08-2019, 08:47 PM

Romanians probably have highest amount of mongoloid genetics in eastern part of europe. Even Russians have less if you exclude heavily Finnic ones in north and east.

Tr00. And it ain't a gift by god. Clear Tatar influx.

Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić

04-08-2019, 08:49 PM

Tr00. And it ain't a gift by god. Clear Tatar influx.

Could be many other things. Hun, Avar, Bulgar, Magyar, Pecheng, Cuman, Ottoman. Lol so many steppe nomads passed trough there I probably forgot to mention all of them.

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:54 PM

I asked because some Turkic groups mixed with Iranics and they have South Asian admixture. Northern Turkics as well as Finno-Ugrigs didn't mix with Iranic people and they usually have none or negligible South Asian admixture.

yeah, i got non of that. my asian is more eastern shifted...i get usually east asian on par with siberian, and on some calculators the siberian is listed as east siberian. i also get amerindian or arctic on others..pretty high ...i don't think it's related to any iranic populations

Sofia

04-08-2019, 08:55 PM

Which region of Bulgaria are the rest of your ancestors from except for southeastern Bulgaria.

Paternal grandmother - no clue, maybe Sofia (Shopluk)
Maternal grandfather - Vratsa region
Maternal grandmother - Dolno Draglishte, both her parents are from there, the MRCA came from Kilkis

поздрави :)

Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić

04-08-2019, 08:55 PM

yeah, i got non of that. my asian is more eastern shifted...i get usually east asian on par with siberian, and on some calculators the siberian is listed as east siberian. i also get amerindian or arctic on others..pretty high ...i don't think it's related to any iranic populations

What's your explanation for that ?

Seya

04-08-2019, 08:59 PM

What's your explanation for that ?

i'm not unique..many eat romanians score such results. why? i'm not sure. i don't think all this has a single origin

Leto

04-08-2019, 09:00 PM

Two percent East Eurasian in Eastern and Southeastern Europe is nothing out of the ordinary. It may not be the average for some countries but you can still find it now and then. I'm talking about Slavic-speaking countries, Romania and Hungary. Bulgaria was founded by a Turkic-speaking group, it was under Ottoman rule for 400+ years and to this day there is a Turkish minority in that country.

TheBalkanite

04-08-2019, 09:02 PM

Paternal grandmother - no clue, maybe Sofia (Shopluk)
Maternal grandfather - Vratsa region
Maternal grandmother - Dolno Draglishte, both her parents are from there, the MRCA came from Kilkis

поздрави :)

I am half from Vratsa and Montana Regions half from Pravec and Teteven area.
What is you GedMatch Number(Mine is UT8918045)?

Sofia

04-08-2019, 09:02 PM

Seya

04-08-2019, 09:08 PM

I wish I had such results, very cool. I think you have admixture with purely Siberian people - Yakuts, Nganasan, Eskimo etc

yeah i get that on DNA land..on other similar ones - north-east asian :)

TheBalkanite

04-08-2019, 09:10 PM

I wish I had such results, very cool. I think you have admixture with purely Siberian people - Yakuts, Nganasan, Eskimo etc

My east asian is kinda weird more northeastern asian(chinese/mongolian) than siberian.
Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.65
2 West_Med 18.57
3 East_Med 17.17
4 North_Atlantic 16.56
5 West_Asian 12.5
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 East_Asian 1.4
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.38

Leto

04-08-2019, 09:13 PM

My east asian is kinda weird more northeastern asian(chinese/mongolian) than siberian.
Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.65
2 West_Med 18.57
3 East_Med 17.17
4 North_Atlantic 16.56
5 West_Asian 12.5
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 East_Asian 1.4
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.38
In such small amounts (single digit, especially below 5%) those components might as well be misread or more randomly assigned.

Seya

04-08-2019, 09:18 PM

Sofia

04-08-2019, 09:19 PM

My east asian is kinda weird more northeastern asian(chinese/mongolian) than siberian.
Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.65
2 West_Med 18.57
3 East_Med 17.17
4 North_Atlantic 16.56
5 West_Asian 12.5
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 East_Asian 1.4
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.38

Just checked your gedmatch results and I noticed the same. Basically, if you have Siberian/East Asian + South Asian - high chance for a Turkic admixture. Your is mainly East Asian and even Oceanian is higher than Siberian, interesting...

CommonSense

04-08-2019, 10:15 PM

My east asian is kinda weird more northeastern asian(chinese/mongolian) than siberian.
Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.65
2 West_Med 18.57
3 East_Med 17.17
4 North_Atlantic 16.56
5 West_Asian 12.5
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 East_Asian 1.4
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.38

It's nothing unsual for K13 to overestimate somebody's East Eurasian score. Do you get similar values on K15 and dodecad?

TheBalkanite

04-09-2019, 04:13 AM

It's nothing unsual for K13 to overestimate somebody's East Eurasian score. Do you get similar values on K15 and dodecad?

Eurogenes V2 K15
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 19.55
2 West_Med 14.44
3 Eastern_Euro 14.24
4 East_Med 14.13
5 West_Asian 11.79
6 North_Sea 11.23
7 Atlantic 10.42
8 Red_Sea 2.95
9 Oceanian 0.68
10 Southeast_Asian 0.59
Here it is lower but again southeast asian something chinese like instead of siberian

Dodecad K12b
# Population Percent
1 North_European 34.44
2 Atlantic_Med 25.87
3 Caucasus 25.4
4 Southwest_Asian 7.81
5 Gedrosia 4.33
6 Southeast_Asian 1
7 Northwest_African 0.7
8 East_Asian 0.33
9 Siberian 0.12
Again southeast asian and east asian more so than siberia.

TheBalkanite

04-09-2019, 04:16 AM

Just checked your gedmatch results and I noticed the same. Basically, if you have Siberian/East Asian + South Asian - high chance for a Turkic admixture. Your is mainly East Asian and even Oceanian is higher than Siberian, interesting...

Yes a lot of Balkan Turks score Asian and South Asian but i have no South Asian so probably its just something random not recent Turkic ancestry but who knows.

Kaspias

04-09-2019, 07:27 AM

Isn't the Siberian a lot higher than any (East) Balkan ethnicity average on every GEDmatch calculator's spreadsheet, what do you mean?

Haha yeah, thanks for replying and high-five on the same haplogroup! Yeah, I noticed that 23andMe and Ancestry are better when it comes to autosomal analysis. Will probably do ancestry in the future as the matching is much better due to bigger database. The H2a2a1 spread is a bit weird, isn't it? Most people are from Denmark, Indonesia and The Philippines? Not sure how to read yfull fully, maybe not many people have submitted their data there?

As far as Vlach ancestry - My maternal grandfather is from Vratsa region, don't know much about him. It seems that many people came to Mandritsa from Korçë, Albania which has a big Aromanian community but this was long ago(4 generations), since then he had a bulgarian wife from Panagyurishte where he settled and my father was the first to come in Sofia.

Bulgarian Siberian average is around 1.5% as far as i observed. A Thracian Bulgarian from Komotini scores 3.8%. She doesn't have any known Turkic ancestry.

mt-DNA is not like y-DNA. I mean mt-DNA doesn't have specific subclade and their spreading is weird. I mean a mt-DNA can be seen both in Nigeria, China and Germany. Also as you stated there is no enough data in yfull. It is better to evaluate it among only Bulgarians.

It is possible you have either Albanian/Greek or Vlach ancestry as different from Bulgarian. But both Albanians' and Greeks' North Atlantic not that high and not enough to make you score 26. You may want to check this (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?281493-Vlach-Gedmatch-from-Bulgaria).

Kaspias

04-09-2019, 07:37 AM

My east asian is kinda weird more northeastern asian(chinese/mongolian) than siberian.
Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 29.65
2 West_Med 18.57
3 East_Med 17.17
4 North_Atlantic 16.56
5 West_Asian 12.5
6 Red_Sea 2.86
7 East_Asian 1.4
8 Oceanian 0.91
9 Siberian 0.38

This two result is very different and a decent example for the question of how Bulgarian genetic diverse.

1 Baltic 29.65
4 North_Atlantic 16.56

1 North_Atlantic 26.9
2 Baltic 22.33

CommonSense

04-09-2019, 10:28 AM

Eurogenes V2 K15
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 19.55
2 West_Med 14.44
3 Eastern_Euro 14.24
4 East_Med 14.13
5 West_Asian 11.79
6 North_Sea 11.23
7 Atlantic 10.42
8 Red_Sea 2.95
9 Oceanian 0.68
10 Southeast_Asian 0.59
Here it is lower but again southeast asian something chinese like instead of siberian

Dodecad K12b
# Population Percent
1 North_European 34.44
2 Atlantic_Med 25.87
3 Caucasus 25.4
4 Southwest_Asian 7.81
5 Gedrosia 4.33
6 Southeast_Asian 1
7 Northwest_African 0.7
8 East_Asian 0.33
9 Siberian 0.12
Again southeast asian and east asian more so than siberia.

But those are all extremely low, noise-level values. Even members of nations who didn't have any contact with Eurasian people can have Siberian, Southeast Asian, etc. pop up in their results. I doubt it's actual Asian ancestry in your case, unlike OP and Seya.

Pribislav

04-09-2019, 10:54 AM

Yes, after seeing some Balkan results, I do feel like my results are very normal and the oracles confirm that. I am a bit mad that the commercial servies didn't pick up on the Siberian that gedmatch gives me.
1 North_Sea 18.14
2 East_Med 17.45
3 Atlantic 17.24
4 Baltic 15.77
5 West_Med 11.63
6 West_Asian 9.69
7 Eastern_Euro 6.78
8 Siberian 1.58
9 Red_Sea 1.34
10 Amerindian 0.25
11 Oceanian 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 5.17
2 Bulgarian 6.15
3 Serbian 7.16
4 Greek_Thessaly 10.49
5 Greek 11.85
6 Austrian 12.56
7 Hungarian 12.6
8 Moldavian 12.62
9 Tuscan 13.04
10 Croatian 13.75
11 North_Italian 13.75
12 Italian_Abruzzo 14.63
13 Central_Greek 16.05
14 Ashkenazi 16.36
15 West_Sicilian 16.38
16 East_German 16.53
17 East_Sicilian 16.87
18 French 17.1
19 Spanish_Galicia 17.97
20 Portuguese 18.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.8% Hungarian + 39.2% South_Italian @ 3.37
2 65% Italian_Abruzzo + 35% Estonian @ 3.77
3 68.7% Greek + 31.3% Swedish @ 3.79
4 56.5% Hungarian + 43.5% Central_Greek @ 3.82
5 54.8% South_Italian + 45.2% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.91
6 54.1% Hungarian + 45.9% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.92
7 58.3% South_Italian + 41.7% Estonian @ 3.95
8 68.7% Greek + 31.3% North_Swedish @ 4.03
9 55.1% Greek_Thessaly + 44.9% Austrian @ 4.04
10 55.8% South_Italian + 44.2% Finnish @ 4.07
11 59.4% Central_Greek + 40.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 4.13
12 57.9% Hungarian + 42.1% East_Sicilian @ 4.14
13 79.6% Bulgarian + 20.4% West_German @ 4.19
14 51.8% Greek + 48.2% Hungarian @ 4.23
15 66.5% Hungarian + 33.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.28
16 86.1% Bulgarian + 13.9% West_Norwegian @ 4.31
17 71.5% Hungarian + 28.5% Cyprian @ 4.32
18 65.7% Hungarian + 34.3% Italian_Jewish @ 4.33
19 57.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 42.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.35
20 85.9% Bulgarian + 14.1% Orcadian @ 4.36

Seems like the K15 scaled the Siberian a bit down.

I know right, very strange :confused:

Your Siberian score is not high for eastern Balkans.

Serbian user Dušan got 1.73% Siberian on K13 Eurogenes and 1.53% on K12b dodecad, and he is from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lika

Dušan's K12b dodecad
https://i.imgur.com/QurAEqu.png

Luke35

04-09-2019, 02:02 PM

Sofia, can you please post your full Eurogenes K36 result?

Sofia

04-09-2019, 02:13 PM

Sofia, can you please post your full Eurogenes K36 result?

Yeah, sure. I don't really like K36. Italian highest by far, idk about that...

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 0.87 Pct
Armenian 3.09 Pct
Basque 1.05 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.02 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 10.27 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 11.74 Pct
East_Med 11.45 Pct
Eastern_Euro 2.04 Pct
Fennoscandian 9.18 Pct
French 0.32 Pct
Iberian 6.17 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 16.58 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.13 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 5.44 Pct
North_Caucasian 8.19 Pct
North_Sea 3.76 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.56 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 1.16 Pct

Luke35

04-09-2019, 02:25 PM

I was curious to see the total result, but particularly wanted to see if you score any SCA. This component is related to Turkic peoples. I see you don't get Siberian here, but it seems to me Siberian is a little more elusive on this calc compared to K13. I think your Fennoscandian is high, which may be a mixed German/Slavic component? I have not seen a clear definition of what that is supposed to represent. I believe your Italian component is in the normal range for your ancestry.

Peterski

04-09-2019, 04:50 PM

Tr00. And it ain't a gift by god. Clear Tatar influx.

In Romania, is it really from Tatars or rather Cumans etc.?

Kaspias

04-09-2019, 04:53 PM

In Romania, is it really from Tatars or rather Cumans etc.?

Both

Neowarior

04-09-2019, 04:59 PM

In Romania, is it really from Tatars or rather Cumans etc.?

I don't think Cumans and other mediveal Turkic peoples have that much impact. It seems rather a recent thing with Romanians. So my best guess is Tatars.

TheBalkanite

04-10-2019, 01:11 AM

But those are all extremely low, noise-level values. Even members of nations who didn't have any contact with Eurasian people can have Siberian, Southeast Asian, etc. pop up in their results. I doubt it's actual Asian ancestry in your case, unlike OP and Seya.

I do agree with you it is probably noise.

TheBalkanite

04-10-2019, 01:22 AM

This two result is very different and a decent example for the question of how Bulgarian genetic diverse.

1 Baltic 29.65
4 North_Atlantic 16.56

1 North_Atlantic 26.9
2 Baltic 22.33

Me > Baltic 29.65 + North_Atlantic 16.56 = Northern European 46.21
Sofia > Baltic 22.33 + North_Atlantic 26.9 = Northern European 49.23
So it is prety interesting how we have arround the same amount of Northern European when you add it up but I am more Slavic and he is more Western European. You can also see it in the Oracle he is 2/3 Hungarian 1/3 Italian and I am 2/3 Ukrainian and 1/3 Cypriot.

Kaspias

04-10-2019, 07:26 AM

Me > Baltic 29.65 + North_Atlantic 16.56 = Northern European 46.21
Sofia > Baltic 22.33 + North_Atlantic 26.9 = Northern European 49.23
So it is prety interesting how we have arround the same amount of Northern European when you add it up but I am more Slavic and he is more Western European. You can also see it in the Oracle he is 2/3 Hungarian 1/3 Italian and I am 2/3 Ukrainian and 1/3 Cypriot.

2/3 Hungarian and 1/3 Italian is a very atypical evaluation for Bulgarians which means heavily more West Europe admixture.

Average Bulgarian proxy is 50-60% Ukrainian and 40-50% Cypriot.

Thracian Bulgarians get 50-50 Ukrainian + Cypriot. NE Bulgarians get 60 Ukrainian 40 Cypriot. Central Bulgarians get 55 Ukrainian 45 Cypriot. I also got 54 Tatar - 46 Cypriot.

I'm around 36% North European in this sense.

TheBalkanite

04-12-2019, 07:55 AM

That is very interesting. I also wanna add that the (2nd) oldest known paternal ancestor(late 19th century, early 20th century) is half Albanian & half Greek (don't know from where), the Greek part being his father. He was from a village in Bulgaria called Mandritsa (the only Albanian village in Bulgaria).

When I was doing the DNA test I was secretly hoping to find Siberian DNA in my results as I am very fond of this geographic region and the native people there. Many people have told me I have East Asian look as well. I don't have epicanthic folds or anything striking, but just a vibe. Maybe something like Kaspias from here but he has A TON of Siberian, Central and East Asian DNA

Have you done Y dna test it would be cool to see what your haplogroup is.

Sofia

05-05-2019, 03:16 PM

Have you done Y dna test it would be cool to see what your haplogroup is.

First of all, sorry for the bump.

I got my Y-DNA results awhile back. I only did Y-25 and I came up as R1a. More specifically - R-M198 but I am pretty much with almost 100% certainty - R-L1029. Not too surprising I guess, maybe someone knows something more about it, would greatly appreciate information regarding it!

To keep it related with Autosomal DNA forum - I always used to get at least ~4.5+ distance as a first guess on every calculator(Not even Bulgaria most of the time). But I think I found the most accurate one for me and that's Dodecad K7b which pretty much nails me as a Bulgarian with 1.91 distance.
1 Atlantic_Baltic 54.26
2 Southern 22.14
3 West_Asian 20.8
4 Siberian 2.72
5 African 0.06
6 East_Asian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 1.91
2 Romanians (Behar) 2.1
3 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 2.58
4 N_Italian (Dodecad) 8.11
5 O_Italian (Dodecad) 8.94
6 North_Italian (HGDP) 10.4
7 Tuscan (HGDP) 11.04
8 TSI30 (Metspalu) 11.64
9 Baleares (1000Genomes) 14.66
10 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 15.53
11 Spaniards (Behar) 15.85
12 Andalucia (1000Genomes) 16.04
13 Galicia (1000Genomes) 16.08
14 Murcia (1000Genomes) 16.22
15 Hungarians (Behar) 16.34
16 C_Italian (Dodecad) 16.37
17 Portuguese (Dodecad) 16.38
18 Cataluna (1000Genomes) 16.96
19 Greek (Dodecad) 17.03
20 French (HGDP) 17.21

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 97.6% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 2.4% Selkup (Rasmussen) @ 0.76
2 97.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 2.2% Ket (Rasmussen) @ 0.81
3 98.5% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 1.5% Nganassan (Rasmussen) @ 0.89
4 98.2% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 1.8% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 0.93
5 94.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 5.2% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 0.98
6 98.3% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 1.7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 0.98
7 98.4% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 1.6% Evenk (Rasmussen) @ 1
8 98.4% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) + 1.6% Yakut (HGDP) @ 1.06
9 61.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 38.7% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.07
10 62.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 37.3% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.09
11 98.5% Romanians (Behar) + 1.5% Nganassan (Rasmussen) @ 1.13
12 69.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 30.4% Samaritians (Behar) @ 1.15
13 62.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.8% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 1.17
14 63.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 36.5% Russian (HGDP) @ 1.21
15 55.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 44.7% Russian (Dodecad) @ 1.23
16 98.3% Romanians (Behar) + 1.7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 1.23
17 98.4% Romanians (Behar) + 1.6% Evenk (Rasmussen) @ 1.24
18 98.2% Romanians (Behar) + 1.8% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 1.24
19 97.8% Romanians (Behar) + 2.2% Ket (Rasmussen) @ 1.25
20 62.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 37.5% Russian_B (Behar) @ 1.25

Fiko0

05-05-2019, 04:39 PM

TheBalkanite

05-11-2019, 01:28 PM

R1a-L1029 is most common in the balkans in central bulgaria and macedonia, it seems to me to be connected to the eastern south slavic languages ie Bulgarian and Macedonian instead of western south slavic. So it is perfectly normal your y dna for a bulgarian. Its a good idea to join the bulgarian dna project if you havent(https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bulgariandna/about).