What's the minimum qualification required for Aliyah? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

PaleoEuropean

05-04-2019, 01:14 AM

Really? I can convert and become eligible?

I've asked my folks if we have any Jewish descent but they said we don't.

Yea you convert but you must be with the congregation for a full year. They are starting to relax the laws for Sephardi's so it may even be less now. Nfesh Nnefesh usually has pretty good info and help. Anyone who is a Jew (including reform Jews) is eligible :). You need no actual Jewish heritage. You can also ease into the process through acceptance to a Kibbutz where they can aid in the process alongside groups like Nfesh.

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 10:19 AM

Yea you convert but you must be with the congregation for a full year. They are starting to relax the laws for Sephardi's so it may even be less now. Nfesh Nnefesh usually has pretty good info and help. Anyone who is a Jew (including reform Jews) is eligible :). You need no actual Jewish heritage. You can also ease into the process through acceptance to a Kibbutz where they can aid in the process alongside groups like Nfesh.

Please stop making stuff up. There is no difference in Israel's eyes between Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Temani (etc) immigrants assuming they satisfy the following conditions:

1) Ethnically Jewish, in that they are 1/4 or more Jewish - one of their grandparents (minimum) needs to be a halakhic Jew OR they themselves need to be a convert to a mainstream Jewish denomination - specifically, Orthodox, Masorti, or Reform. Once you have completed that process, you are eligible for aliyah. Conversion takes years, though.
2) If 1) is satisfied, whilst they do not need to be observant, they cannot have converted to another religion, even if they are fully Jewish, as this renders them ineligible

It goes without saying that Messianic 'Jews' do not qualify.

In practise, however, the Israelis are often reticent to recognise foreign conversions and there are many instances of them deciding that individuals are or were gentiles, despite having raised practising Jewish families, who are then suddenly classified as goyim.

On the other hand, if you are 25% Jewish and you choose to immigrate, you can bring along your spouse and children, even if they are non-Jewish. Thus, many 1/8 Jewish ex-soviets migrated in the 90s.

Converting under the auspices of a Sephardic beit din will not make things any faster for you.

Nurzat

05-04-2019, 10:23 AM

being the child of a non-jew and a 1/4 jew who migrates to Israel.

are people of full Jewish descent like you rather rare or not?

also, are you, those of absolute full Jewish descent for so many known generations regarded/praised more than those with less Jewish descent in the Jewish community or Israel?

PaleoEuropean

05-04-2019, 10:24 AM

Please stop making stuff up. There is no difference in Israel's eyes between Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Temani (etc) immigrants assuming they satisfy the following conditions:

1) Ethnically Jewish, in that they are 1/4 or more Jewish - one of their grandparents (minimum) needs to be a halakhic Jew OR they themselves need to be a convert to a mainstream Jewish denomination - specifically, Orthodox, Masorti, or Reform. Once you have completed that process, you are eligible for aliyah. Conversion takes years, though.
2) If 1) is satisfied, whilst they do not need to be observant, they cannot have converted to another religion, even if they are fully Jewish, as this renders them ineligible

It goes without saying that Messianic 'Jews' do not qualify.

In practise, however, the Israelis are often reticent to recognise foreign conversions and there are many instances of them deciding that individuals are or were gentiles, despite having raised practising Jewish families, who are then suddenly classified as goyim.

On the other hand, if you are 25% Jewish and you choose to immigrate, you can bring along your spouse and children, even if they are non-Jewish. Thus, many 1/8 Jewish ex-soviets migrated in the 90s.

Converting under the auspices of a Sephardic beit din will not make things any faster for you.
You are misreading everything I am saying. I am Not saying they discriminate, but there are a lot of people of Spanish and Portuguese Sephardi descent that do not qualify as they have been disconnected from congregations for a long time. There are tons of congregations springing up in South America supported by Israeli groups. I am not saying being Sephardi will get you anywhere faster, what I am saying is the Israeli system is becoming more lax over time. You are correct, if you go there as a reform convert you are going to maybe have some stigma attached and have to take further steps to even get married, I am just talking the minimum for getting there. I have talked to representatives from the organization I mentioned before, they said 1 year and of course some other stuff alongside, but that is the information they gave me in regards to conversion.

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 10:32 AM

are people of full Jewish descent like you rather rare or not?

also, are you, those of absolute full Jewish descent for so many known generations regarded/praised more than those with less Jewish descent in the Jewish community or Israel?

There are like, 12-13 million of us kicking around.

In the ultra-Orthodox community, your yichus is quite important, and that includes not being a convert or the child of converts (or the child of divorced parents, reformniks, etc). In the regular community it's not so important. One of Ariel Sharon's parents was a Subbotnik (ethnic Russian judaiser) and no one cared, obviously.

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 10:39 AM

You are misreading everything I am saying. I am Not saying they discriminate, but there are a lot of people of Spanish and Portuguese Sephardi descent that do not qualify as they have been disconnected from congregations for a long time. There are tons of congregations springing up in South America supported by Israeli groups. I am not saying being Sephardi will get you anywhere faster, what I am saying is the Israeli system is becoming more lax over time. You are correct, if you go there as a reform convert you are going to maybe have some stigma attached and have to take further steps to even get married, I am just talking the minimum for getting there. I have talked to representatives from the organization I mentioned before, they said 1 year and of course some other stuff alongside, but that is the information they gave me in regards to conversion.

I would say the issue is perhaps with how you're expressing yourself. To be clear:

1) Obviously, people who are 1/128 Sephardic or whatever do not count as Jews. Being 1/8, 1/16, 1/256 Jewish is not strictly speaking interesting to the Jewish community, although if it's your direct maternal line there is an interesting halakhic question to be raised, particularly if it's within 3 generations, and of course, you are still 'zera yisra'el,' which constitutes a halakhically defined group, but not Jews.
2) There are several missionary groups that seek to convert 'bnei anusim' to Judaism, many of which focus on South America in the belief that 1/3 of you are 1/128 Sephardic or more. Most Jews view these missionary groups as weirdos, but if you convert, you convert.
3) It doesn't matter whether or not you're 1/128 Sephardic in the end, it's fairly meaningless. You could live your entire life as a Catholic or whatever and that would be that. Or you could convert to Judaism. Of course, so could a gentile with 0 Jewish heritage. Conversion is easier for people with recent Jewish heritage, particularly a living ancestor, but if anyone's making things easier for you because your great x 6 grandparent might have been a marrano, that's probably a good reason to invalidate the process.

TL;DR: you said 'things are getting easier for Sephardim' referring to bnei anusim.

a) Bnei Anusim are not Sephardim, they are Bnei Anusim
b) Things are exactly the same for them as for any other non-Jew
c) I guarantee you the state of Israel will not change its criteria for aliyah. It will do what it does now: foment discord amongst diasporic populations to encourage actual Jews to migrate - particulary (currently) focusing on France and Ukraine.

Kamal900

05-04-2019, 11:15 AM

I would say the issue is perhaps with how you're expressing yourself. To be clear:

1) Obviously, people who are 1/128 Sephardic or whatever do not count as Jews. Being 1/8, 1/16, 1/256 Jewish is not strictly speaking interesting to the Jewish community, although if it's your direct maternal line there is an interesting halakhic question to be raised, particularly if it's within 3 generations, and of course, you are still 'zera yisra'el,' which constitutes a halakhically defined group, but not Jews.
2) There are several missionary groups that seek to convert 'bnei anusim' to Judaism, many of which focus on South America in the belief that 1/3 of you are 1/128 Sephardic or more. Most Jews view these missionary groups as weirdos, but if you convert, you convert.
3) It doesn't matter whether or not you're 1/128 Sephardic in the end, it's fairly meaningless. You could live your entire life as a Catholic or whatever and that would be that. Or you could convert to Judaism. Of course, so could a gentile with 0 Jewish heritage. Conversion is easier for people with recent Jewish heritage, particularly a living ancestor, but if anyone's making things easier for you because your great x 6 grandparent might have been a marrano, that's probably a good reason to invalidate the process.

TL;DR: you said 'things are getting easier for Sephardim' referring to bnei anusim.

a) Bnei Anusim are not Sephardim, they are Bnei Anusim
b) Things are exactly the same for them as for any other non-Jew
c) I guarantee you the state of Israel will not change its criteria for aliyah. It will do what it does now: foment discord amongst diasporic populations to encourage actual Jews to migrate - particulary (currently) focusing on France and Ukraine.

What do you call about people who have Jewish genetic ancestry like myself but don't identify themselves as Jews?

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 11:26 AM

What do you call about people who have Jewish genetic ancestry like myself but don't identify themselves as Jews?

How you choose to identify is next to irrelevant, it's the culture you were either raised in or chose to immerse yourself in. As neither applies to you, I do not view you as Jewish, but of course, you could become Jewish if you wanted to.

Kamal900

05-04-2019, 11:30 AM

How you choose to identify is next to irrelevant, it's the culture you were either raised in or chose to immerse yourself in. As neither applies to you, I do not view you as Jewish, but of course, you could become Jewish if you wanted to.

Palestinian Christians are ironically the closest people who are genetically the closest to the ancient Israelites along with the Samaritans and so on. Here's my G25 results:

Fit 1.1002

Levant_Canaanite_MBA: 63.33
IRN_Seh_Gabi_C: 14.17
Mozabite: 13.33
RUS_Afanasievo: 9.17

Your oracle

1. Lebanese_Druze@3.1980
2. Lebanese_Muslim@3.2969
3. Syrian_Jew@3.6910
4. Palestinian@3.7544
5. Druze@3.8065
6. Lebanese_Christian@4.0344
7. Samaritan@4.7880
8. Iraq_Jew@4.8028
9. Libyan_Jew@4.8614
10. Tunisian_Jew@4.9693
11. BedouinA@5.1962(I am pretty sure this Bedouin sample is mixed with a Levantine person)
12. Iranian_Jew@5.2384
13. Cypriot@5.5206
14. Georgian_Jew@5.5470
15. Romaniote_Jew@5.6177
16. Assyrian@5.8626
17. Sepharidic_Jew@6.0225
18. Moroccan_Jew@6.0430
19. Armenian@6.5415
20. Italian_Jew@6.5482
21. Greek_Central_Anatolia@6.7717
22. Ashkenazi_Jew@6.8964
23. Greek_Crete@7.4310
24. Turkish_Trabzon@7.5902
25. Turkish_Kayseri@7.6374
26. Kurdish@7.6577
27. Yemenite_Amran@7.8622
28. Maltese@7.8881
29. Greek_Trabzon@7.9647
30. Turkish_Adana@8.1928
31. Iranian_Lor@8.1945
32. Azeri@8.3309
33. Sicilian_East@8.4193
34. Italian_South@8.6437
35. Sicilian_West@8.9043
36. Iranian_Zoroastrian@9.0808
37. Iranian_Persian@9.1721
38. Georgian_Laz@9.1806
39. Yemenite_Dhamar@9.2907
40. Iranian_Fars@9.3184
41. Yemenite_Jew@9.6777
42. Egyptian@9.6884
43. Italian_Abruzzo@9.6938
44. Yemenite_Ma'rib@9.7852
45. Turkish_Istanbul@9.9188
46. Azeri_Dagestan@10.0207
47. Yemenite_Al_Jawf@10.4278
48. Turkish_Aydin@10.5407
49. Saudi@10.6830
50. BedouinB@10.7055

I could become one but I'm afraid my parents would kick me out of the house if I did that, rofl. I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior though..but theoretically speaking, I would be a full blooded Jew If I converted to Judaism, no?

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 11:33 AM

Halakha doesn't differentiate really, so it's immaterial. I suspect Jews would vaunt you as they do most ex-Palestinian Jews. I read an article on a Gazan couple who moved to Israel and had two sons who converted to Judaism, and one is now an IDF officer. Jews go nuts for that sort of thing.

I should be getting my G25 soonish.

Kamal900

05-04-2019, 11:37 AM

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 11:48 AM

Hmm, I see. So..I'm guessing that religious tribalism is more important than genetic ancestry of Jewish identity, right?

We're tribalists, fundamentally. Ethnic nationalism is more a European thing. Don't be corrupted ;)

Teutone

05-04-2019, 11:51 AM

black israelites may disagree with you guys

Kamal900

05-04-2019, 11:53 AM

We're tribalists, fundamentally. Ethnic nationalism is more a European thing. Don't be corrupted ;)

Hmmm, you know something, you had me thinking in something. Are there Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their savior? If there are then are these kind of Jews also accepted among the tribe as well? I mean, I have accepted Jesus as my savior but I have yet to be converted to Christianity, so..

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 12:53 PM

Hmmm, you know something, you had me thinking in something. Are there Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their savior? If there are then are these kind of Jews also accepted among the tribe as well? I mean, I have accepted Jesus as my savior but I have yet to be converted to Christianity, so..

People of Jewish background who are Christians exist, and they are absolutely not accepted by other Jews, but viewed with strong suspicion. Messianic Jews in particular are held in high disdain.

BTW g25:

Barcin_N,51.8
Yamnaya_Samara,20
Armenia_EBA,13.2
Ganj_Dareh_N,7.4
Morocco_Iberomaurusian,5.4
WHG,1.4
Han,0.4
Levant_N,0.4

So 20% IE, 1.4% WHG, 0.4% EEA, and the rest MENA.

Smitty

05-04-2019, 01:26 PM

People of Jewish background who are Christians exist, and they are absolutely not accepted by other Jews, but viewed with strong suspicion. Messianic Jews in particular are held in high disdain.

BTW g25:

Barcin_N,51.8
Yamnaya_Samara,20
Armenia_EBA,13.2
Ganj_Dareh_N,7.4
Morocco_Iberomaurusian,5.4
WHG,1.4
Han,0.4
Levant_N,0.4

So 20% IE, 1.4% WHG, 0.4% EEA, and the rest MENA.

Suspicion of what?

Longbowman

05-04-2019, 01:29 PM

Suspicion of what?

Messianics behave like a very overt 5th column.

black israelites may disagree with you guys

their opinion doesn't matter, even if they had their own state no one would want to go there

Smitty

05-05-2019, 03:13 AM

Messianics behave like a very overt 5th column.

their opinion doesn't matter, even if they had their own state no one would want to go there

They seem to be Christian to me, without getting into the semantics of it. Who exactly are they working against? Israel or Jews in general? I can see why Jews would dislike them from a theological perspective and even reject them as Jews, but I don't see how they're suspicious. They believe Christianity is the fulfillment of true Judaism. That's what all Christians believe as well.

PaleoEuropean

05-05-2019, 07:02 AM

They seem to be Christian to me, without getting into the semantics of it. Who exactly are they working against? Israel or Jews in general? I can see why Jews would dislike them from a theological perspective and even reject them as Jews, but I don't see how they're suspicious. They believe Christianity is the fulfillment of true Judaism. That's what all Christians believe as well.

I would agree, I don't say it's wrong Christians feel as they do, neither is it wrong for Jews to feel as they do. I think there may be sects like Arian Christianity attempt more inline with Jewish ideas but still not with Jewish law. The qualifications and events surrounding the Messiah from a Jewish point of view would not be fulfilled with Jesus. If you do not follow Jewish law can you ever really be a Jew aside from in name or through genealogy? The same goes for every religion imo. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, but from what defines things to each is a matter of law and dogma from each respective faith. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck.

PaleoEuropean

05-05-2019, 07:05 AM

black israelites may disagree with you guys

But they are like the Creativity movement and Scientology; who actually listens to them xD.

Longbowman

05-05-2019, 05:51 PM

They seem to be Christian to me, without getting into the semantics of it.

Oh, I agree. And you agree. And the Church agrees. But they don't agree. They see themselves as Jews, despite following Christianity, and spend a lot of their time proselytising to Jews, and can be quite predatory when it comes to Jews with limited education in religion. Their active goal is to convert the Jewish community to Christianity, which obviously is a bad start for inter-communal relationships, but hey ho, you believe in one true path and so on, so I guess I can get over that, but I can't get over their surreptitious, duplicitous nature. To illustrate: near where I live, they write to schools offering to come in and speak to them about what it's like being Jewish (you know how it goes, you're 15, you have to sit through a lecture by some dickhead from community x describing his traditions). They portray themselves as Jews. Their Churches are called 'synagogues,' their priests are called 'Rabbis,' they wear [bad versions of] Jewish garb and ritual wear, they openly present themselves as Jews and they're simply not. Not religious, not ethnically (most aren't even genetically Jewish, not that it matters), not culturally, not by ideological alignment, not even by kinship. The State of Israel, in a rare instance of doing something that 99% of Jews actually agreed with, considers that even if they're 100% Jewish by blood, a messianic 'Jew' is not a Jew, not entitled to make aliyah, and not part of the community (although messianics still exist in Israel, both new converts and people who made aliyah before that decision, or their descendants).

Essentially, imagine some pantheist mongrel considering himself [your denomination here] and going around insisting to other people that he is in fact [your denomination here] and lecturing them about it, even though his beliefs are 99% identical with [other religious beliefs].

They are an evangelical community and that is what they do. It is not one or two members, it is their community. They inspire nothing in me but disdain. If they chose to be normal Christians that would be great, but they're not.

Who exactly are they working against? Israel or Jews in general?

1) Spare me the dishonour of suggesting I'd be too offended by yet another anti-Zionist Jewish group
2) They love Israel in exactly the same way other evangelicals do

I can see why Jews would dislike them from a theological perspective and even reject them as Jews, but I don't see how they're suspicious. They believe Christianity is the fulfillment of true Judaism. That's what all Christians believe as well.

They're Christians in Jews' clothing (or so they aim for). I have no problem with, f/e, Methodists of Jewish parentage.

Smitty

05-06-2019, 04:00 AM

Oh, I agree. And you agree. And the Church agrees. But they don't agree. They see themselves as Jews, despite following Christianity, and spend a lot of their time proselytising to Jews, and can be quite predatory when it comes to Jews with limited education in religion. Their active goal is to convert the Jewish community to Christianity, which obviously is a bad start for inter-communal relationships, but hey ho, you believe in one true path and so on, so I guess I can get over that, but I can't get over their surreptitious, duplicitous nature. To illustrate: near where I live, they write to schools offering to come in and speak to them about what it's like being Jewish (you know how it goes, you're 15, you have to sit through a lecture by some dickhead from community x describing his traditions). They portray themselves as Jews. Their Churches are called 'synagogues,' their priests are called 'Rabbis,' they wear [bad versions of] Jewish garb and ritual wear, they openly present themselves as Jews and they're simply not. Not religious, not ethnically (most aren't even genetically Jewish, not that it matters), not culturally, not by ideological alignment, not even by kinship. The State of Israel, in a rare instance of doing something that 99% of Jews actually agreed with, considers that even if they're 100% Jewish by blood, a messianic 'Jew' is not a Jew, not entitled to make aliyah, and not part of the community (although messianics still exist in Israel, both new converts and people who made aliyah before that decision, or their descendants).

Essentially, imagine some pantheist mongrel considering himself [your denomination here] and going around insisting to other people that he is in fact [your denomination here] and lecturing them about it, even though his beliefs are 99% identical with [other religious beliefs].

They are an evangelical community and that is what they do. It is not one or two members, it is their community. They inspire nothing in me but disdain. If they chose to be normal Christians that would be great, but they're not.

1) Spare me the dishonour of suggesting I'd be too offended by yet another anti-Zionist Jewish group
2) They love Israel in exactly the same way other evangelicals do

They're Christians in Jews' clothing (or so they aim for). I have no problem with, f/e, Methodists of Jewish parentage.

I see. So it's the lack of transparency in their presentation of themselves, which I agree is a legitimate complaint. A Christian could argue, biblically, that he is a true Jew, but to do so without providing any of the background for that argument is not very honest. And honesty matters - or should matter - a great deal to someone claiming to be a follower of Jesus.

By the way, I'm not a Christian myself, just to be clear.

Mortimer

05-06-2019, 04:01 AM

Either 1/4 jew by descendt a grandparent or you are a convert

Smitty

05-06-2019, 04:04 AM

I would agree, I don't say it's wrong Christians feel as they do, neither is it wrong for Jews to feel as they do. I think there may be sects like Arian Christianity attempt more inline with Jewish ideas but still not with Jewish law. The qualifications and events surrounding the Messiah from a Jewish point of view would not be fulfilled with Jesus. If you do not follow Jewish law can you ever really be a Jew aside from in name or through genealogy? The same goes for every religion imo. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, but from what defines things to each is a matter of law and dogma from each respective faith. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck.

And that's the semantic discussion there. As I said above, a Christian could make a very good case for calling himself a Jew. But your average Joe would be confused by that identification without clarification.

happycow

05-06-2019, 04:38 AM

Oh, I agree. And you agree. And the Church agrees. But they don't agree. They see themselves as Jews, despite following Christianity, and spend a lot of their time proselytising to Jews, and can be quite predatory when it comes to Jews with limited education in religion. Their active goal is to convert the Jewish community to Christianity, which obviously is a bad start for inter-communal relationships, but hey ho, you believe in one true path and so on, so I guess I can get over that, but I can't get over their surreptitious, duplicitous nature. To illustrate: near where I live, they write to schools offering to come in and speak to them about what it's like being Jewish (you know how it goes, you're 15, you have to sit through a lecture by some dickhead from community x describing his traditions). They portray themselves as Jews. Their Churches are called 'synagogues,' their priests are called 'Rabbis,' they wear [bad versions of] Jewish garb and ritual wear, they openly present themselves as Jews and they're simply not. Not religious, not ethnically (most aren't even genetically Jewish, not that it matters), not culturally, not by ideological alignment, not even by kinship. The State of Israel, in a rare instance of doing something that 99% of Jews actually agreed with, considers that even if they're 100% Jewish by blood, a messianic 'Jew' is not a Jew, not entitled to make aliyah, and not part of the community (although messianics still exist in Israel, both new converts and people who made aliyah before that decision, or their descendants).

Essentially, imagine some pantheist mongrel considering himself [your denomination here] and going around insisting to other people that he is in fact [your denomination here] and lecturing them about it, even though his beliefs are 99% identical with [other religious beliefs].

They are an evangelical community and that is what they do. It is not one or two members, it is their community. They inspire nothing in me but disdain. If they chose to be normal Christians that would be great, but they're not.

1) Spare me the dishonour of suggesting I'd be too offended by yet another anti-Zionist Jewish group
2) They love Israel in exactly the same way other evangelicals do

They're Christians in Jews' clothing (or so they aim for). I have no problem with, f/e, Methodists of Jewish parentage.

Interesting discussion. One of my good friends is a messianic jew. But not genetically Jewish... baffles me.

Oneeye

05-06-2019, 04:51 AM

The path of righteousness begins and ends with sole fide. As the Lord hung upon the cross, He turned toward the heavens and announced to the world: "It is finished."

Dna8

05-06-2019, 05:29 AM

Still searching for some Jewish heritage.. no luck yet.. will keep trying and keep you posted.

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 09:40 AM

I see. So it's the lack of transparency in their presentation of themselves, which I agree is a legitimate complaint. A Christian could argue, biblically, that he is a true Jew, but to do so without providing any of the background for that argument is not very honest. And honesty matters - or should matter - a great deal to someone claiming to be a follower of Jesus.

By the way, I'm not a Christian myself, just to be clear.

If you want to see yourselves as one of the inheritors of pre-Christian Judaism, I would obviously disagree, but I don't have a problem with it. However, the word 'Jew' in modern parlance does not mean that, and it is not what they are portraying themselves as. The word 'Christian' already encompasses the belief that the person to whom it applies is an adherent of an ideology that is a (not the) continuation of Judaism so calling yourself Jewish would be both unnecessary and deliberately misleading. In this case they go to efforts to portray themselves as Jews and as I say to convince others that they are Jews. Unlike other Christians they keep a not-so-convincing veneer of Jewish ritual to accompany their fundamentally Christian beliefset. As soon as they stop pretending to be Jews, I have no particular issue with them.

Interesting discussion. One of my good friends is a messianic jew. But not genetically Jewish... baffles me.

Most of them are like that. Christians who fetishise Jewish 'authenticity.'

I'm sure he's a great person but he's not Jewish in the slightest, he's a Christian who [99 times out of 100: not very well] attempts to practise what he views as Jewish ritual without adhering to any specifically Jewish theology. Nomenclature means nothing - messianics probably don't even realise that Rabbi is a pseudo-meaningless honorific and only Ashkenazim really even call their leaders by that name.

Voskos

05-06-2019, 10:21 AM

I think I'm a jew from the lost tribes of israel. Anyone agree?
[1,] "Sicilian" "5.9572"
[2,] "South_Italian" "6.0446"
[3,] "Central_Greek_Thessaly" "6.5577"
[4,] "Ashkenazi" "7.8232"
[5,] "Italian_Abruzzo" "7.9589"
[6,] "Italian_Jewish_Sephardic" "11.6019"
[7,] "Algerian_Jewish" "11.9957"
[8,] "Albanian" "12.7787"
[9,] "Moroccan_Jew" "13.4443"
[10,] "Tunisian_Jewish" "14.9468"
[11,] "Libyan_Jewish" "15.3775"

Voskos

05-06-2019, 10:47 AM

https://www.academia.edu/4112686/The_Hebrew_Danites_as_the_Greek_Danaans

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 10:51 AM

Voskos

05-06-2019, 11:00 AM

Puntdnal k10:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.59
2 Sephardic_Jew 5.03
3 Ashkenazi_Jew 5.21

happycow

05-06-2019, 11:03 AM

If you want to see yourselves as one of the inheritors of pre-Christian Judaism, I would obviously disagree, but I don't have a problem with it. However, the word 'Jew' in modern parlance does not mean that, and it is not what they are portraying themselves as. The word 'Christian' already encompasses the belief that the person to whom it applies is an adherent of an ideology that is a (not the) continuation of Judaism so calling yourself Jewish would be both unnecessary and deliberately misleading. In this case they go to efforts to portray themselves as Jews and as I say to convince others that they are Jews. Unlike other Christians they keep a not-so-convincing veneer of Jewish ritual to accompany their fundamentally Christian beliefset. As soon as they stop pretending to be Jews, I have no particular issue with them.

Most of them are like that. Christians who fetishise Jewish 'authenticity.'

I'm sure he's a great person but he's not Jewish in the slightest, he's a Christian who [99 times out of 100: not very well] attempts to practise what he views as Jewish ritual without adhering to any specifically Jewish theology. Nomenclature means nothing - messianics probably don't even realise that Rabbi is a pseudo-meaningless honorific and only Ashkenazim really even call their leaders by that name.

She* :P

She is indeed a great person. But I never considered her Jewish. Just Christian. But in America lots of people want to be Jews.

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 05:07 PM

If you two are being serious, plate similarity on GEDmatch oracles is not the same as admixture.

You're Southern Euros who get close to the similarly-admixed European Jewish populations. I, a European Jew (primarily), get close to Southern Euros. You are no more Jewish than I am Abruzzese.

If you want to be Jewish, just convert and assimilate. There's no need to search for admixture and ancestry that isn't there.

Voskos

05-06-2019, 08:15 PM

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 08:16 PM

@LBM, i am haplogroup T with some distant matches from poland( polish jews) . i also score 16% sephardic on ftdna, and so does my grandfather.

PS: I know I'm not a Jew but anything is possible in terms of ancient admixtures.

I get some Balkans on FTDNA (Southeast Europe); we're just so similar. Is your family from Salonika or Ioannina? ;)

Voskos

05-06-2019, 08:25 PM

We're all from crete. Several cretans(not all) do score sephardic , in the 10-20% range. It could very well be phoenician stuff, another possibility is misinterpreted north african.

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 08:29 PM

We're all from crete. Several cretans(not all) do score sephardic , in the 10-20% range. It could very well be phoenician stuff, another possibility is misinterpreted north african.

Chanea/Cania had a small Sephardic community, anyone from there? Btw I was in Crete a few months ago.

Voskos

05-06-2019, 08:37 PM

Interesting. I live in chania but my origin is from surrounding villages. I guess if i were descended from Chaniot jews I would've known it.

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 08:51 PM

Interesting. I live in chania but my origin is from surrounding villages. I guess if i were descended from Chaniot jews I would've known it.

I was in Chania! Have you visited the synagogue there?

Voskos

05-06-2019, 08:58 PM

Thats cool bro did you like it here? I pass next to the synagogue when i go for walk quite often, but I've never seen the inside. I think they only open it to the public on special occasions.

Longbowman

05-06-2019, 09:04 PM

Thats cool bro did you like it here? I pass next to the synagogue when i go for walk quite often, but I've never seen the inside. I think they only open it to the public on special occasions.

They told me they're open most days, something like 9-3, go in sometime and check it out. They are the only Jewish community on Crete, and they told me many or even most of their congregants are non-Jewish, despite their being Orthodox, so perhaps if you're interested in Judaism, you have the perfect community right next door. The synagogue is small, but very interesting. The old town was very pretty, my hotel was A++, some of the surburbs were run down, however. Of course this was the off-season, I imagine during tourist season it is very different. The food was also A++.

KuriousKatKommittee

05-19-2019, 08:30 AM

They're Christians in Jews' clothing (or so they aim for). I have no problem with, f/e, Methodists of Jewish parentage.
The word you are looking for to describe these clown-ass niggas is "subversive."

They are an evangelical community and that is what they do. It is not one or two members, it is their community. They inspire nothing in me but disdain. If they chose to be normal Christians that would be great, but they're not.
If I had to pick a new group of friends and my two choices were either Far Right Neo-Nazis or The Special Ed Proselytizers I would pick the former because at least they niggas up front about they mission (and their cosplays WAY more hilarious (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Zx4HMW0AAyv1o.jpg:large) too). *dabs on the proselytizers 1940s style*

What's the minimum qualification required for Aliyah?

1. 50,000 posts minimum on The Apricity dot com.
2. Magen david tramp stamp. (Secret IDF initiation ritual).
3. Don't place the milk container next to that slice of ham in the fridge ever again. It disrupts Big Nigga's tree of life 9th chakra, thus TRIGGERING him/her/them/xim.
4. New rule: Separate dish cloth for every utensil. Your new Roommate does not like it when you dry forks with Their cloth instead of your own. Also, new rule: No sex with Their cloth and using it as a special cum sock. That is an abomination to the LANDLORD, your Roommate.
5. Now that you were introduced to your new, clearly autistic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F2Rab99q0g) Roommate that makes you tremble from disgust, you must do everything to keep Them happy, always sticking to the autistic daily schedule pinned on the fridge which They call "commandments" (how cute).

https://i.redd.it/95dmud83hz511.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/cc/6f/6acc6f67616bd89d4bc648fd1ec0cdb4.jpg
6. Leave your Roommate and become a godless diaspora nomad seen with disdain by both condescending Israeli niggas and patronizing religious niggas alike.
7. Have anal sex.
8. Realize that the Promised Land was in your heart all along and that Big Nigga permeates every atom that makes up you, your body, everything around you, the entire world (The Cope Method) so then whether you is homeless in Mogadishu or dying from antibiotics resistant dysentery in a California run-down hospital bed it does not matter because Big Nigga still with you.

Oh, wrong tutorial. I thought you was asking what the Big Nigga's Hood joining qualifications are because aliyah to Israel is way easier! Just ask all the non-Jewish Russians who slipped in in the 1980s.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/ab7a9c1af148a602b819bf2130e9c3df/tenor.gif?itemid=12929486

Rgvgjhvv

07-25-2019, 02:40 PM

So that's your great x 3 grandparent, which is 1/32 or a little over 3% of your ancestry, plus 1/16 Ashkenazi (maybe?) which would be 6.125%.

I am 1/16 Musta'arabi (specifically: Baghdadi) but do not identify ethnically as such. Here's the reason:

1) 1/16 x is 15/16 not x
2) I was not raised Musta'arabi

As you were not raised Sephardic or any other kind of Jewish, you are not ethnically Sephardic or any other kind of Jewish.

You're more recently (probably?) Ashkenazi (surname?) but unwilling to put that in your bio? Darkness means nothing, my dad is extremely dark skinned and 100% Ashkenazi. Come on, don't fetishise us.

As you know from Jewish law and custom, distant Jewish ancestry (especially non-maternal ancestry) doesn't count for much. View us as a tribal or maybe national entity rather than an ethnic one. Again, if you want to be part of Am Yisra'el, conversion is always an option.

I'd be interested to see a photo of your dad.

Longbowman

07-25-2019, 02:45 PM

I'd be interested to see a photo of your dad.

I'd love to show you but he doesn't even have a facebook account and is very opposed to anything about him, specifically including photos, being put online. There are a couple though, anyone who has me on facebook can confirm he is very dark.

Rgvgjhvv

07-25-2019, 02:45 PM

I'd love to show you but he doesn't even have a facebook account and is very opposed to anything about him, specifically including photos, being put online. There are a couple though, anyone who has me on facebook can confirm he is very dark.

That's totally understandable!

happycow

07-27-2019, 04:14 AM

The word you are looking for to describe these clown-ass niggas is "subversive."

If I had to pick a new group of friends and my two choices were either Far Right Neo-Nazis or The Special Ed Proselytizers I would pick the former because at least they niggas up front about they mission (and their cosplays WAY more hilarious (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Zx4HMW0AAyv1o.jpg:large) too). *dabs on the proselytizers 1940s style*

1. 50,000 posts minimum on The Apricity dot com.
2. Magen david tramp stamp. (Secret IDF initiation ritual).
3. Don't place the milk container next to that slice of ham in the fridge ever again. It disrupts Big Nigga's tree of life 9th chakra, thus TRIGGERING him/her/them/xim.
4. New rule: Separate dish cloth for every utensil. Your new Roommate does not like it when you dry forks with Their cloth instead of your own. Also, new rule: No sex with Their cloth and using it as a special cum sock. That is an abomination to the LANDLORD, your Roommate.
5. Now that you were introduced to your new, clearly autistic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F2Rab99q0g) Roommate that makes you tremble from disgust, you must do everything to keep Them happy, always sticking to the autistic daily schedule pinned on the fridge which They call "commandments" (how cute).

https://i.redd.it/95dmud83hz511.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/cc/6f/6acc6f67616bd89d4bc648fd1ec0cdb4.jpg
6. Leave your Roommate and become a godless diaspora nomad seen with disdain by both condescending Israeli niggas and patronizing religious niggas alike.
7. Have anal sex.
8. Realize that the Promised Land was in your heart all along and that Big Nigga permeates every atom that makes up you, your body, everything around you, the entire world (The Cope Method) so then whether you is homeless in Mogadishu or dying from antibiotics resistant dysentery in a California run-down hospital bed it does not matter because Big Nigga still with you.

Oh, wrong tutorial. I thought you was asking what the Big Nigga's Hood joining qualifications are because aliyah to Israel is way easier! Just ask all the non-Jewish Russians who slipped in in the 1980s.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/ab7a9c1af148a602b819bf2130e9c3df/tenor.gif?itemid=12929486

lol

Pine

07-27-2019, 04:51 AM

There are like, 12-13 million of us kicking around.

In the ultra-Orthodox community, your yichus is quite important, and that includes not being a convert or the child of converts (or the child of divorced parents, reformniks, etc). In the regular community it's not so important. One of Ariel Sharon's parents was a Subbotnik (ethnic Russian judaiser) and no one cared, obviously.

Fake news. It is on wiki, which cites a news article -likely where you got it from. Not only is there no mention of it in the biography written by his son, but the parent in question, his mother, is described as any other Jew. There is a picture of her family. They look like any Jews of that time period. Haredim were pissed at Sharon over some shit he did and called his mother a shiksa (likely due to her Russified name) and that's probably where the myth began.

In any case, her name was Vera Schneirov. While Vera is a Russian first name, her surname gives away that she was Ashkenazi and not Subbotnik. "ov" is a russian suffix, but the root is Schneir, which is the same as Shneyer - a Yiddish male name. Subbotniks did not use Yiddish or have Yiddish surnames. Her surname merely means: "son of Shneyer" and in all likelihood, she descends from the first Lubavitcher Rebbe. Her surname is listed among his descendants and she's from the right area. On top of that, Subbotniks didn't live Mogilev, but rather on modern Russian territory and further east in the Empire. And while she had a Russian first name, her parents were Mordechai and Tehila.