how much did ancient mesopotamians differ from modern iraqis

[Borealis]

I have heard many people repeat the claim that Iraqis today are direct descendants of ancient mesopotamians. there is also one guy here, stonyarabia, which claims that they are actually descendents of bedouins from arabia.

Recently Ive seen how different ancient egyptians are from modern ones. mesopotamia being a much more significant crossroads in the region would probably have as much or even more difference between the ancients and the moderns. I would doubt even Assyrians have remained untouched since those ancient times.

[Morena]

I think they are largely descended of the same people with some added admixture. Some groups are more "pure" than others. Marsh Arabs, for example, have been living in the same area, with the same life style, since the time of the Sumerians.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.c.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get2%2FI0000Ujfuh6UnsnY%2Ffit%3D1000x750%2FNW-MARSH-HISTORY-004.jpg&f=1

[Dna8]

The OP is an underrated TA geneticist.

[Borealis]

The OP is an underrated TA geneticist.

I dont like to brag but its true

[Dna8]

I dont like to brag but its true

You make probing threads.

Keep probing, brother.

[Borealis]

bump

[Nazarene]

I think they are largely descended of the same people with some added admixture. Some groups are more "pure" than others. Marsh Arabs, for example, have been living in the same area, with the same life style, since the time of the Sumerians.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.c.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get2%2FI0000Ujfuh6UnsnY%2Ffit%3D1000x750%2FNW-MARSH-HISTORY-004.jpg&f=1

Sorry but thats BS

[Nazarene]

Assyrians and Mandeans are native Mesopotamians the others are either invaders from Arabia or Iran. You can count the Mesopotamian Jews if you want too.

[Borealis]

How do we know they did not change over time as well?

Assyrians and Mandeans are native Mesopotamians the others are either invaders from Arabia or Iran. You can count the Mesopotamian Jews if you want too.

[Nazarene]

How do we know they did not change over time as well?

Christianity

[Borealis]

Christianity

They have remained more similar but it’s no guarantee they are the same as ancient Assyrians/Babylonians

[Nazarene]

They have remained more similar but it’s no guarantee they are the same as ancient Assyrians/Babylonians

We can't be sure as their have been no samples tested as of yet but we would s definitely be the most similar.

[dududud]

I have heard many people repeat the claim that Iraqis today are direct descendants of ancient mesopotamians. there is also one guy here, stonyarabia, which claims that they are actually descendents of bedouins from arabia.

Recently Ive seen how different ancient egyptians are from modern ones. mesopotamia being a much more significant crossroads in the region would probably have as much or even more difference between the ancients and the moderns. I would doubt even Assyrians have remained untouched since those ancient times.

Except for the absence of sub-Saharan input (or almost) in the samples of the ancient Egyptians that are available ... no, these ancient Egyptians sample remain relatively close to the modern Egyptians.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexander_Peltzer/publication/317237154/figure/fig3/AS:499733124456450@1496157069792/Principal-component-analysis-and-genetic-clustering-of-genome-wide-DNA-from-three.png

[Borealis]

Except for the absence of sub-Saharan input (or almost) in the samples of the ancient Egyptians that are available ... no, these ancient Egyptians sample remain relatively close to the modern Egyptians.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexander_Peltzer/publication/317237154/figure/fig3/AS:499733124456450@1496157069792/Principal-component-analysis-and-genetic-clustering-of-genome-wide-DNA-from-three.png

Yes-they are relatively close but not as close as one would expect for a people living in the same land. Other modern near easterns like Palis and Arabians are actually closer to them.

[Borealis]

Except for the absence of sub-Saharan input (or almost) in the samples of the ancient Egyptians that are available ... no, these ancient Egyptians sample remain relatively close to the modern Egyptians.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alexander_Peltzer/publication/317237154/figure/fig3/AS:499733124456450@1496157069792/Principal-component-analysis-and-genetic-clustering-of-genome-wide-DNA-from-three.png

SSA is the determining element. If you take it out of the equation then modern Egyptians are the closest to ancient ones. But there were still probably some migrations from the levant since that time that made a small difference:

"sample": "Egyptian:Average",
"fit": 7.8327,
"Egypt_Late_Period": 100,
"closestDistances":

"sample": "Yemenite_Dhamar:Average",
"fit": 4.5597,
"Egypt_Late_Period": 100,

"sample": "Egyptian:Average",
"fit": 2.7965,
"Egypt_Late_Period": 90,
"Yoruba": 10,

"sample": "Yemenite_Dhamar:Average",
"fit": 4.3314,
"Egypt_Late_Period": 98.33,
"Yoruba": 1.67,

"sample": "Egyptian:Average",
"fit": 1.9345,
"Egypt_Late_Period": 65.83,
"Druze": 23.33,
"Yoruba": 10.83,

[Petalpusher]

The thing is on the pca you clearly see the ancients are on the straight line all Eurasians reside, whereas the modern departed from that, in direction to Africa and rather SSA than E.Africa.

[dududud]

The thing is on the pca you clearly see the ancients are on the straight line all Eurasians reside, whereas the modern departed from that, in direction to Africa and rather SSA than E.Africa.

What you say is true, I do not deny it, but I just wanted to say that these samples do not reveal a closeness with Europeans contrary to what some would like to believe or affirm ("the ancient Egyptians were closer to Europeans and Early Europeans Farmers than the modern Egyptians"); these samples always have a relative proximity with the modern Egyptians (even if one notes that modern are relatively more distant from these old samples, because the SSA imput).