Arab with some Jewish ancestry? Anyone got any ideas?

[whoibe]

When I first got my DNA results a few months ago I couldn't really find an explanation for my Jewish matches but after stumbling into Davidski's G25 I thought I'd give it another shot.

A quick breakdown: I am from the Galilee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee). My Jewish matches are up to 20 cM, are almost exclusively Sephardic and we match each other on the same chromosome segment. One of the matches (Tunisian Jewish, 20 cM, scores 97% Sephardic on MyHeritage) told me she heard that her gg-grandmother (Libyan/Tunisian Jew) originally came from Palestine.

Here are some models randwulf from anthrogenica kindly ran for me in his Gradient-Descent-Algorithm thread:


Yes, that is correct. All of the references were in the model, but only Syrian and Sephardic Jew were selected. I suspect that is just a matter of overlap, but I made a new model that removes Sephardic Jew and replaces it with Tunisian Jew, Egyptian, and Druze, along with the Syrian, Palestinian, and Lebanese Muslim references and this is the result:

distance%: 0.54

Syrian 62.36
Tunisian_Jew 24.31
Druze 13.33

If I replace Tunisian Jew with Syrian Jew:

distance%: 0.58

Syrian 75.65
Druze 13.7
Egyptian 10.65

With Libyan Jew:

distance%: 0.54

Syrian 66.39
Libyan_Jew 21.55
Druze 4.93
Egyptian 4.48
Palestinian 2.64

And...using Sephardic Jew again, but with the extra Egyptian/Druze references available:

distance%: 0.52

Syrian 71.26
Sephardic_Jew 22.35
Druze 3.72
Egyptian 2.67


Here are my coordinates:

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AY_scaled,0.061464,0.125926,-0.049026,-0.073644,-0.013541,-0.019243,-0.00376,0.002538,0.007158,0.007289,0.000162,-0.006894,0.011596,0.002202,-0.000407,0.004243,0.00013,-0.00152,-0.002137,-0.005127,-0.000624,0.00136,-0.00456,-0.005061,0.003233

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AY,0.0054,0.0124,-0.013,-0.0228,-0.0044,-0.0069,-0.0016,0.0011,0.0035,0.004,0.0001,-0.0046,0.0078,0.0016,-0.0003,0.0032,0.0001,-0.0012,-0.0017,-0.0041,-0.0005,0.0011,-0.0037,-0.0042,0.0027

What do you guys think? Any other modern models you would suggest? Thanks in advance.

[whoibe]

Looking at the shared chromosome segment on Gedmatch (MDLP World-22), this is what it looks like:

https://i.imgur.com/MsKZjbg.png

Blue is Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic, which corresponds to Western and South-Western Europe, and orange is West Asian. Does this say anything about the shared ancestry?

[Lemgrant]

almost all my Jewish matches on Gedmatch and MyHeritage are on chromosomes 8,1, and 6. I tested my mother with 23andme and turns out those segments of chromosomes are reserved by Ashkenazi Jews. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286764-My-mother-s-results

this is how it looks on Gedmatch with Eurogenes K13 (from 88M to 103M)
https://i.imgur.com/YTJqCL5.png
https://i.imgur.com/5HCMJAi.png

[whoibe]

almost all my Jewish matches on Gedmatch and MyHeritage are on chromosomes 8,1, and 6. I tested my mother with 23andme and turns out those segments of chromosomes are reserved by Ashkenazi Jews. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286764-My-mother-s-results

Where did you read that and what does it mean for a segment to be 'reserved' by a certain group?

Based off those results you most likely share West Asian heritage, how do you interpret that?

[Lemgrant]

Where did you read that and what does it mean for a segment to be 'reserved' by a certain group?

from 23andme: (I don't show the specific segments from the next columns)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32689040597_a73af6f841_o.png

[Lemgrant]

Based off those results you most likely share West Asian heritage, how do you interpret that?

quote from 23andme:

Ashkenazi Jewish people settled in Central and Eastern Europe in the late Middle Ages, but their modern descendants remain genetically more similar to other Jewish populations than to their European neighbors, reflecting shared western Asian origins. In the twentieth century, many Ashkenazi Jewish people immigrated to Israel or to the Americas in search of greater cultural and religious acceptance. Today, over five million ethnic Ashkenazi Jewish people live in the U.S.

[Mjolnir]

Ashkenazim are the Turko-Mongol group called Khazars.

You could share genes with Europeans as well as they settled between the Black and Caspian Seas and integrated themselves into Europe as well as the Middle East (and North Africa).

Makes for a very interesting study.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lemgrant]

Ashkenazim are the Turko-Mongol group called Khazars.

You could share genes with Europeans as well as they settled between the Black and Caspian Seas and integrated themselves into Europe as well as the Middle East (and North Africa).

Makes for a very interesting study.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:icon_lol: They have photos on 23andme and they look 0% Turko-Mongol

[whoibe]

Ashkenazim are the Turko-Mongol group called Khazars.

You could share genes with Europeans as well as they settled between the Black and Caspian Seas and integrated themselves into Europe as well as the Middle East (and North Africa).

Makes for a very interesting study.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please don't derail this :picard2:

[Pine]

Your Sephardic-specific matches, as opposed to Mizrachi matches, remind me of this:


In another village just south of Hevron, Muhammed Amsalem – a descendant of Spanish Jews - told Aharon Granot of Mishpacha magazine that everyone in town knows he and his clan are Jews: “Our elders tell us that our forefathers came to this land during the [15th century] Spanish Inquisition, via Morocco. They settled in Ramle. Then the Mamluks forced them to convert to Islam, and they moved to the South Hevron area.”

[whoibe]

Your Sephardic-specific matches, as opposed to Mizrachi matches, remind me of this:

I do have quite a few Iberian matches with a triangulated segment, a couple of whom I share with the Sephardic matches. I don't score any Iberian though, and I don't know how uncommon it is for a levantine to have Iberian matches. This is my Ancient G25 result (top 10 populations):


"distance%=1.7379"

Levant_BA_North,39.6
Egypt_Late_Period,5.4
England_Roman_o,4.8
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,4
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,3.2
Levant_ChL,3
Egypt_Hellenistic,2.4
Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE,1.6
Sappali_Tepe_BA,1.6
Tepe_Hissar_ChL,1.6

But then again, that doesn't say much really, as the Syrian average also includes some ancient Iberian admixture:



[1] "distance%=1.154"

Levant_BA_North,32.8
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,8.8
Egypt_Late_Period,4.4
England_Roman_o,3.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,3.4
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,3.2
Armenia_ChL,2.4
Iran_recent,2.4
Hasanlu_IA,2.2
Sappali_Tepe_BA,2

[Pine]

I do have quite a few Iberian matches with a triangulated segment, a couple of whom I share with the Sephardic matches. I don't score any Iberian though, and I don't know how uncommon it is for a levantine to have Iberian matches. This is my Ancient G25 result (top 10 populations):


"distance%=1.7379"

Levant_BA_North,39.6
Egypt_Late_Period,5.4
England_Roman_o,4.8
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,4
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,3.2
Levant_ChL,3
Egypt_Hellenistic,2.4
Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE,1.6
Sappali_Tepe_BA,1.6
Tepe_Hissar_ChL,1.6

But then again, that doesn't say much really, as the Syrian average also includes some ancient Iberian admixture:



[1] "distance%=1.154"

Levant_BA_North,32.8
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,8.8
Egypt_Late_Period,4.4
England_Roman_o,3.6
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1,3.4
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,3.2
Armenia_ChL,2.4
Iran_recent,2.4
Hasanlu_IA,2.2
Sappali_Tepe_BA,2

Sephardic Jews don't have much Iberian to begin with.

[whoibe]

Sephardic Jews don't have much Iberian to begin with.

Could it also be from the Islamic conquest of the Iberian Peninsula?

[Pine]

Could it also be from the Islamic conquest of the Iberian Peninsula?

I don't know how atypical it is for a Palestinian in that G25 model.

[whoibe]

I don't know how atypical it is for a Palestinian in that G25 model.

I used Syrian because I plot the closest to them. This is Palestinian:
Though obviously this is the entire spreadsheet again and I don't know if everyone gets Iberian matches as well.


"distance%=1.695"

Palestinian

England_Roman_o,28
Levant_BA_North,19.6
Egypt_Late_Period,9.6
Guanche_Canary_Islands,6
Levant_BA_South,5.2
Egypt_Hellenistic,3.6
Sappali_Tepe_BA,2.6
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,2.2
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,1.8
Seh_Gabi_ChL,1.6

[Pine]

I used Syrian because I plot the closest to them. This is Palestinian:
Though obviously this is the entire spreadsheet again and I don't know if everyone gets Iberian matches as well.


"distance%=1.695"

Palestinian

England_Roman_o,28
Levant_BA_North,19.6
Egypt_Late_Period,9.6
Guanche_Canary_Islands,6
Levant_BA_South,5.2
Egypt_Hellenistic,3.6
Sappali_Tepe_BA,2.6
Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE,2.2
Hajji_Firuz_ChL,1.8
Seh_Gabi_ChL,1.6

How many segments are the 20cm you share with them spread out over?

[whoibe]

How many segments are the 20cm you share with them spread out over?

The Sephardic or the Iberians?

edit: okay just had a look, Sephardic: two or three, with matches that are 12 cM total 1 segment.
Iberian: closest is 17 cM over 2 segments

[Pine]

The Sephardic or the Iberians?

edit: okay just had a look, Sephardic: two or three, with matches that are 12 cM total 1 segment.
Iberian: closest is 17 cM over 2 segments

I forget the exact tables, but you probably have a Sephardic ancestor.

[whoibe]

I forget the exact tables, but you probably have a Sephardic ancestor.

Which tables? You mean the genetic relationship? I believe the distance should be about Cousin 6th degree.

What does the number of segments tell you?

[whoibe]

so I just converted my ancestrydna file to a 23andme format and then used this tool to predict my mtdna: https://dna.jameslick.com

Result: H2a2a1

I looked through my gedmatch results to see who else had it and it was one of my sephardic matches with the chromosome segment I share with other sephardic matches

[Levant15]

so I just converted my ancestrydna file to a 23andme format and then used this tool to predict my mtdna: https://dna.jameslick.com

Result: H2a2a1

I looked through my gedmatch results to see who else had it and it was one of my sephardic matches with the chromosome segment I share with other sephardic matchesDon't do that. It's incorrect.
If you want mtDNA, then you have to test for mtdna snps. Only 23andme and livingdna do that. You cannot take ftdna raw data and convert it to 23andMe and expect it to work.....

I did the same as you and got the same mtDNA as you did. I know it's incorrect because my mtDNA is U8B

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

Don't do that. It's incorrect.
If you want mtDNA, then you have to test for mtdna snps. Only 23andme and livingdna do that. You cannot take ftdna raw data and convert it to 23andMe and expect it to work.....

I did the same as you and got the same mtDNA as you did. I know it's incorrect because my mtDNA is U8B

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

haha that's crazy, is that like their default go-to haplogroup when a file is converted? :confused:
Did yours also say "Good match" and that you had extra markers for the haplogroup?
Which test did you take for your mtdna? What about Wegene.com, was that closer to your real mtdna?

[Levant15]

haha that's crazy, is that like their default go-to haplogroup when a file is converted? :confused:
Did yours also say "Good match" and that you had extra markers for the haplogroup?
Which test did you take for your mtdna? What about Wegene.com, was that closer to your real mtdna?Yes, It did say good match with extra snps.

I transfered my 23andme data to wegene and it was accurate. Then I transfered my Ancestry dna data and it was accurate. It's weird because ancestry doesn't test for. mtDNA snps.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

Yes, It did say good match with extra snps.

I transfered my 23andme data to wegene and it was accurate. Then I transfered my Ancestry dna data and it was accurate. It's weird because ancestry doesn't test for. mtDNA snps.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Wegene.com says I'm mtdna T (ancestrydna upload). So I guess I can trust that? Do you think a full sequence test would give me a more specific subclade?

Also, what happens if you upload your 23andme data to dna.jameslick.com?

[Levant15]

Wegene.com says I'm mtdna T (ancestrydna upload). So I guess I can trust that? Do you think a full sequence test would give me a more specific subclade?Yes. You can get a deeper subclade by getting livingdna on sale now for $60 or ftdna full mtdna sequence for $150 right now. The ftdna full sequence is nice since it gives actual matches based on mtdna.
I did the same for my dads and he got J2b1 with matches in Palestine , Italy and Switzerland.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[ModernMaskil]

Can't help you with the DNA bits as I'm not anymore knowledgeable than you in that regard but there were definitely decent chunks of Sephardic Jews who immigrated to Israel circa 15th century some of whom presumably converted at some point later on.

Also welcome to the forum. I don't believe we've had any Arab Israelis on here before.

[whoibe]

Yes. You can get a deeper subclade by getting livingdna on sale now for $60 or ftdna full mtdna sequence for $150 right now. The ftdna full sequence is nice since it gives actual matches based on mtdna.
I did the same for my dads and he got J2b1 with matches in Palestine , Italy and Switzerland.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

What happens when you upload your 23andme file to dna.jameslick.com? Does it also give you a bs result?

Also this may sound dumb but what is an mtDNA match? Is it someone who was already one of your matches on Family Finder but did the mtdna test and has the same haplogroup? Can you get an mtdna match that's not already a 'regular' match?


Can't help you with the DNA bits as I'm not anymore knowledgeable than you in that regard but there were definitely decent chunks of Sephardic Jews who immigrated to Israel circa 15th century some of whom presumably converted at some point later on.

Also welcome to the forum. I don't believe we've had any Arab Israelis on here before.

I don't think I'll be solving this puzzle anytime soon. I'm matching Sephardic Israelis with a triangulated segment that score 100% Sephardic but I have zero leads as to how we're related because I don't share any Arab matches with them. My grandmother says she doesn't know what her grandmother's family was, so if I can't go back 4 generations I doubt I'll be finding out what happened in the 15th century :D an mtDNA test seems interesting though.

Oh and thanks :thumb001:

[ModernMaskil]

What happens when you upload your 23andme file to dna.jameslick.com? Does it also give you a bs result?

Also this may sound dumb but what is an mtDNA match? Is it someone who was already one of your matches on Family Finder but did the mtdna test and has the same haplogroup? Can you get an mtdna match that's not already a 'regular' match?



I don't think I'll be solving this puzzle anytime soon. I'm matching Sephardic Israelis with a triangulated segment that score 100% Sephardic but I have zero leads as to how we're related because I don't share any Arab matches with them. My grandmother says she doesn't know what her grandmother's family was, so if I can't go back 4 generations I doubt I'll be finding out what happened in the 15th century :D an mtDNA test seems interesting though.

Oh and thanks :thumb001:

An mtDNA test would probably not tell you much, the Sephardic ancestor would have to have been your direct ancestor (that is, your maternal great x6 or xyz grandmother). The likely hood of it not being a man who married in or even on the other side of your family is pretty small unless you have some reason to believe otherwise. Still, if it is that ancestor then it would probably give you a very clear indication as by and large the majority of Sephardim have an Iberian or otherwise European maternal haplogroup.

Regardless, we all share quite a plethora of ancestors if we go back an extra 1500 years or so.

[Levant15]

What happens when you upload your 23andme file to dna.jameslick.com? Does it also give you a bs result?

Also this may sound dumb but what is an mtDNA match? Is it someone who was already one of your matches on Family Finder but did the mtdna test and has the same haplogroup? Can you get an mtdna match that's not already a 'regular' match?


When you upload 23andme kit, jameslick tool gives you accurate results to some degree that's because 23andme includes over 4,000 mtdna snps in their tests but ancestrydna doesn't.
See this link for more details.
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/which_ancestry_dna_test_to_choose.shtml



FTDNA full mtdna sequence tests include genealogy based on mtdna from my understanding. Not autosomal.
I think this means you shared the same mother in the past 500 years
My Italy matches are not matching with me autosomally but still showed up as mtdna matches.


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

An mtDNA test would probably not tell you much, the Sephardic ancestor would have to have been your direct ancestor (that is, your maternal great x6 or xyz grandmother). The likely hood of it not being a man who married in or even on the other side of your family is pretty small unless you have some reason to believe otherwise. Still, if it is that ancestor then it would probably give you a very clear indication as by and large the majority of Sephardim have an Iberian or otherwise European maternal haplogroup.

Regardless, we all share quite a plethora of ancestors if we go back an extra 1500 years or so.

I think knowing my mtDNA would be interesting regardless (since my family knows so little about it anyways). I don't know if the common ancestor is on my maternal line, if it happens to be so then I guess cool, mystery solved, but I'm not expecting anything really. If I ever get any leads it would be by sheer luck.

Why do you think a man marrying in is more likely? I don't know how it was X centuries ago but a Muslim man marrying a Jewish woman is definitely more common nowadays than the other way around because the latter case usually has more... consequences

Btw, assuming Wegene is at least corrrect about the first letter of my mtdna, does Haplogroup T even have any Iberian or European subclades?

[whoibe]

So as I said before, if I ever get any leads it would be by sheer luck. I got a new match (57 cM) on MH that's 11% Sephardic. They said they're Palestinian but born and raised in Europe. Their family is from the same village as my grandmother's mom. We also match on the same segment that I match many Sephardic Jews on, but we don't share any matches at all (because why the hell should things be easy?). So while I still have no idea who the common ancestor is, I now at least know which side of the family I should look (maternal). Will be interesting to see what my mtDNA is.


When you upload 23andme kit, jameslick tool gives you accurate results to some degree that's because 23andme includes over 4,000 mtdna snps in their tests but ancestrydna doesn't.
See this link for more details.
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/which_ancestry_dna_test_to_choose.shtml



FTDNA full mtdna sequence tests include genealogy based on mtdna from my understanding. Not autosomal.
I think this means you shared the same mother in the past 500 years
My Italy matches are not matching with me autosomally but still showed up as mtdna matches.


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

That's pretty cool, it's like the closest thing we can get to time travel..
Not much info online on U8b, is it common in Lebanon?

Also, I had no idea Livingdna was as accurate as an ftdna full sequence test, that's a great deal.

[Levant15]

So as I said before, if I ever get any leads it would be by sheer luck. I got a new match (57 cM) on MH that's 11% Sephardic. They said they're Palestinian but born and raised in Europe. Their family is from the same village as my grandmother's mom. We also match on the same segment that I match many Sephardic Jews on, but we don't share any matches at all (because why the hell should things be easy?). So while I still have no idea who the common ancestor is, I now at least know which side of the family I should look (maternal). Will be interesting to see what my mtDNA is.



That's pretty cool, it's like the closest thing we can get to time travel..
Not much info online on U8b, is it common in Lebanon?

Also, I had no idea Livingdna was as accurate as an ftdna full sequence test, that's a great deal.


FTDNA full sequence for mtdna is better I believe and I think getting actual matches is worth the extra money.
My subclade is U8b1a2b.
FTDNA shows the countries of people who tested for this subclade.
Palestine, Israel, Austria, Bosnia, Iran, Serbia, Croatia.
I'm sure the Palestinian and Israeli testers are related to me. Not sure about the others.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/cc4644d466e128d6818d5e00467b78ea.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

FTDNA full sequence for mtdna is better I believe and I think getting actual matches is worth the extra money.
My subclade is U8b1a2b.
FTDNA shows the countries of people who tested for this subclade.
Palestine, Israel, Austria, Bosnia, Iran, Serbia, Croatia.
I'm sure the Palestinian and Israeli testers are related to me. Not sure about the others.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/cc4644d466e128d6818d5e00467b78ea.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

How can you have mtdna matches from Italy when that pic shows no one from Italy who tested for your subclade? Or did you mean that you contacted some of the people from that pic and it turned out they were Italian?

[Levant15]

How can you have mtdna matches from Italy when that pic shows no one from Italy who tested for your subclade? Or did you mean that you contacted some of the people from that pic and it turned out they were Italian?That was my dad's.
I didn't test my mothers mtdna at ftdna

Here's my dad subclade. 12 people total from Italy.


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/37d47c50f3b0828b567147012aea7ef8.jpg

[whoibe]

That was my dad's.
I didn't test my mothers mtdna at ftdna

Here's my dad subclade. 12 people total from Italy.


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/37d47c50f3b0828b567147012aea7ef8.jpg

What do you think the reason is for all these Italian matches? Can you check/have you checked if they're ethnically Italian or just live there?

Also, I'm interested in finding out my Y-haplogroup but I'm torn between Livingdna and 23andme. Livingdna is cheaper, but 23andme has a larger database and therefor more potential matches. The Y-DNA predictor (ytree.morleydna.com) says I'm most likely j2a1i or j2a~1 depending on the kit. Does 23andme test enough Y-SNPs to tell me which is true or will it likely just say j2 or j2a?

[Levant15]

What do you think the reason is for all these Italian matches? Can you check/have you checked if they're ethnically Italian or just live there?

Also, I'm interested in finding out my Y-haplogroup but I'm torn between Livingdna and 23andme. Livingdna is cheaper, but 23andme has a larger database and therefor more potential matches. The Y-DNA predictor (ytree.morleydna.com) says I'm most likely j2a1i or j2a~1 depending on the kit. Does 23andme test enough Y-SNPs to tell me which is true or will it likely just say j2 or j2a?

I can't see their ethnicity. I don't care to be honest.

LivingDNA is better for ydna and mtDNA. But 23andme is better when it comes to number of matches. You will get zero matches with livingdna.
23andme will probably just say your J2 or J2a but if you take into MorleyDNA then it will give you a bit deeper subclade.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[whoibe]

I can't see their ethnicity. I don't care to be honest.

LivingDNA is better for ydna and mtDNA. But 23andme is better when it comes to number of matches. You will get zero matches with livingdna.
23andme will probably just say your J2 or J2a but if you take into MorleyDNA then it will give you a bit deeper subclade.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

This thread (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225424-Living-DNA-free-raw-data-upload!)has just put me off Livingdna, they don't sound professional.

Btw would you (and anyone from the Levant) mind posting your Dodecad Africa9 results?

[Pine]

This thread (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225424-Living-DNA-free-raw-data-upload!)has just put me off Livingdna, they don't sound professional.

Btw would you (and anyone from the Levant) mind posting your Dodecad Africa9 results?

I'm a European Jew and my predicted YDNA is very similar to yours:



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Europe 48.33
2 SW_Asia 41.52
3 NW_Africa 8.44
4 Mbuti 1.15
5 S_Africa 0.37
6 San 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Morocco_Jews 3.77
2 North_African_Jews (Dodecad) 5.04
3 Druze 16.79
4 Jordanians 21.15
5 Tuscan 26.84
6 Egypt 27.84
7 Egyptans 30.64
8 North_Italian 32.77
9 Yemenese 36.06
10 Libya 41.66
11 Bedouin 43.08
12 Yemen_Jews 46.69
13 North_African (Dodecad) 47
14 Saudis 52.25
15 Algeria 55.88
16 Morocco_N 60.66
17 Ethiopian_Jews 65.58
18 Ethiopians 65.94
19 East_African (Dodecad) 66.44
20 Moroccans 67.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.3% Morocco_Jews + 17.7% Druze @ 1.09
2 93.5% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 6.5% French_Basque @ 1.29
3 58.2% Morocco_Jews + 41.8% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) @ 1.48
4 86% Morocco_Jews + 14% Jordanians @ 1.51
5 87.2% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 12.8% North_Italian @ 1.54
6 93.2% Morocco_Jews + 6.8% Yemen_Jews @ 1.56
7 93.8% Morocco_Jews + 6.2% Saudis @ 1.57
8 92.9% Morocco_Jews + 7.1% Bedouin @ 1.86
9 85.2% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 14.8% Tuscan @ 1.91
10 92.9% Morocco_Jews + 7.1% Yemenese @ 2.6
11 92.9% Morocco_Jews + 7.1% Egyptans @ 2.95
12 92.4% Morocco_Jews + 7.6% Egypt @ 3
13 98.6% Morocco_Jews + 1.4% Ethiopian_Jews @ 3.65
14 98.7% Morocco_Jews + 1.3% East_African (Dodecad) @ 3.66
15 98.7% Morocco_Jews + 1.3% Ethiopians @ 3.67
16 98.2% Morocco_Jews + 1.8% Libya @ 3.68
17 99.5% Morocco_Jews + 0.5% Mbuti_Pygmies @ 3.71
18 100% Morocco_Jews + 0% Bantu_S.W._Herero @ 3.77
19 100% Morocco_Jews + 0% Algeria @ 3.77
20 100% Morocco_Jews + 0% Bamoun @ 3.77

[whoibe]

I'm a European Jew and my predicted YDNA is very similar to yours:

Do you think Y-DNA is a not so reliable way to determine Ashkenazi ancestry? J2 is just as common in Ashkenazim as it is in non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations. Btw what does the * in a haplogroup mean? :confused:

Also, what exactly is the difference between a Moroccan Jew and a North African Jew? Does the latter include Moroccan/Libyan/Tunisian and Algerian Jews (or a mixture of) while the former is just more specific?

Here's my Africa9, I'm wondering why I'm not plotting close to Jordanian. But I guess I'm not plotting close to anything else either really:


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Asia 43.68
2 Europe 39.52
3 NW_Africa 11.93
4 E_Africa 3
5 S_Africa 1.09
6 San 0.72
7 Mbuti 0.03
8 W_Africa 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_African_Jews (Dodecad) 7.37
2 Morocco_Jews 12.8
3 Jordanians 15.54
4 Druze 16.17
5 Egypt 17.53
6 Egyptans 20.48
7 Yemenese 27.57
8 Libya 31.89
9 Bedouin 35.12
10 Tuscan 37.11
11 Yemen_Jews 39.71
12 North_African (Dodecad) 40.47
13 North_Italian 42.74
14 Saudis 45.16
15 Algeria 49.08
16 Morocco_N 54.85
17 Ethiopian_Jews 56.93
18 Ethiopians 57.38
19 East_African (Dodecad) 57.82
20 Moroccans 60.76

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 81.8% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 18.2% Libya @ 2.04
2 58% Morocco_Jews + 42% Egypt @ 2.34
3 61.9% Morocco_Jews + 38.1% Egyptans @ 2.6
4 72.6% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 27.4% Egypt @ 3.51
5 91.8% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 8.2% Sahara_OCC @ 3.61
6 76.2% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 23.8% Egyptans @ 3.82
7 90.7% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 9.3% Moroccans @ 3.89
8 88.7% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 11.3% Algeria @ 3.96
9 90.1% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 9.9% Ethiopian_Jews @ 3.96
10 90.2% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 9.8% Ethiopians @ 3.97
11 90.3% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 9.7% East_African (Dodecad) @ 3.98
12 86.8% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 13.2% North_African (Dodecad) @ 4.09
13 91.6% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 8.4% Morocco_S @ 4.15
14 72.1% Druze + 27.9% North_African (Dodecad) @ 4.27
15 77.8% Druze + 22.2% Morocco_N @ 4.39
16 93.5% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 6.5% Mozabite @ 4.47
17 68.5% Egypt + 31.5% Tuscan @ 4.52
18 71.5% Egypt + 28.5% North_Italian @ 4.52
19 90.5% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 9.5% Morocco_N @ 4.59
20 93.5% North_African_Jews (Dodecad) + 6.5% TUNISIA @ 4.75

[Pine]

Do you think Y-DNA is a not so reliable way to determine Ashkenazi ancestry? J2 is just as common in Ashkenazim as it is in non-Jewish Middle Eastern populations. Btw what does the * in a haplogroup mean? :confused:

Also, what exactly is the difference between a Moroccan Jew and a North African Jew? Does the latter include Moroccan/Libyan/Tunisian and Algerian Jews (or a mixture of) while the former is just more specific?

Here's my Africa9, I'm wondering why I'm not plotting close to Jordanian. But I guess I'm not plotting close to anything else either really:

You're dwelling into the "European" in "European Jew" too seriously. Jews from across the world and non-Jewish middle easterners share the same YDNA. The only dude I can find with my predicted clade is a Lebanese Christian. The only difference is that my common ancestor will be more recent with other Jews than with Arabs. The common ancestor amongst Ashkenazi Jews and Arabs is calculated to have lived about 4000 years ago (at least for a subset of J1 and J2, and some others). As for Africa9, I'm not sure. Do you score atypical results in other calculators? Post your Eurogenes JTest.

I assume the same thing as you about "North African Jew". Moroccan and Algerian Jews seem to exist on their own branch due to a large influx of Sephardic refugees. Libyan Jews seem to have the least Sephardic ancestry. Tunisian Jews, depending which subset you look at, either cluster with Moroccan and Algerian Jews or with Libyan Jews. I don't know what results Egyptian Jews get.

[whoibe]

You're dwelling into the "European" in "European Jew" too seriously. Jews from across the world and non-Jewish middle easterners share the same YDNA. The only dude I can find with my predicted clade is a Lebanese Christian. The only difference is that my common ancestor will be more recent with other Jews than with Arabs. The common ancestor amongst Ashkenazi Jews and Arabs is calculated to have lived about 4000 years ago (at least for a subset of J1 and J2, and some others). As for Africa9, I'm not sure. Do you score atypical results in other calculators? Post your Eurogenes JTest.

I assume the same thing as you about "North African Jew". Moroccan and Algerian Jews seem to exist on their own branch due to a large influx of Sephardic refugees. Libyan Jews seem to have the least Sephardic ancestry. Tunisian Jews, depending which subset you look at, either cluster with Moroccan and Algerian Jews or with Libyan Jews. I don't know what results Egyptian Jews get.

Idk how seriously mytrueancestry results should be taken but from what I've seen so far, Sephardic Jews have Canaanite/Semite in their closest ancient populations while Ashkenazim are closer to Romans. Since the free version does not show all top 20 results though it could be that they have Canaanite somewhere in the top 20 as well though.

I think my Gedmatch results are mostly normal when it comes to single population distances, a couple of calculators give me slightly atypical results for mixed mode though. MDLP 16 and k23b show me as Syrian Jew but I believe I've seen a Lebanese person here with Syrian Jew as top result in MDLP K23b as well. It is a pretty close distance though:

MDLP K16
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.93
2 Neolithic 17.01
3 NearEast 12.5
4 Steppe 7.83
5 NorthAfrican 6.37
6 Indian 5.16
7 EastAfrican 2.27
8 Subsaharian 1.58
9 NorthEastEuropean 1.22
10 SouthEastAsian 1.2
11 Oceanic 0.91
12 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Syria) 2.98
2 Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) 3.2
3 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 3.98
4 Arab_Israel (Iqrit) 4.57
5 Jordanian (Jordanian) 5.5
6 Samaritan (Israel) 6.18
7 Arab_Israel (Shefa_Amr) 6.7
8 Syrian (Syria) 6.72
9 Lebanese (Lebanon) 7.72
10 Assyrian (Iran) 7.95
11 Jew (Sephardim) 8.44
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.46
13 Palestinian (Israel) 8.56
14 Jew (Azerbaijan) 8.76
15 Jew (Turkey) 8.76
16 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.8
17 Jew (Georgia) 8.86
18 Jew (Kurdish) 8.98
19 Turk (Adana) 9.44
20 Iraki (Irak) 9.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.6% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 19.4% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.04
2 71.7% Jew (Syria) + 28.3% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.21
3 81.1% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 18.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.24
4 81.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 18.5% Jew (Libya) @ 2.26
5 94.4% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.6% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.44
6 96.1% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 3.9% Berber (Algeria) @ 2.45
7 83.8% Jew (Syria) + 16.2% Jew (Kurdish) @ 2.47
8 79% Jew (Syria) + 21% Syrian (Syria) @ 2.47
9 94.8% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.2% Algerian (Algeria) @ 2.48
10 97.2% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 2.8% Mozabite (Algeria) @ 2.5
11 94.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.5% Moroccan (Morocco) @ 2.52
12 91% Jew (Syria) + 9% Iranian (Kerman) @ 2.53
13 53.2% Jew (Kurdish) + 46.8% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.54
14 96.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 3.5% Saharawi (Morocco) @ 2.54
15 94.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.5% Tunisian (Tunis) @ 2.55
16 94.6% Jew (Syria) + 5.4% Iranian (Bandari) @ 2.56
17 86.7% Jew (Syria) + 13.3% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.56
18 85.8% Jew (Syria) + 14.2% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.56
19 95.9% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 4.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.57
20 82.9% Jew (Syria) + 17.1% Lebanese (Lebanon) @ 2.57


MDLP K23b Syrian Jew is top result as well but it's much further (using my myheritage kit it's a little closer at 7.6 and also top result but obviously still far), so the noteworthy thing here is more the far distance to non-Jewish Levant populations
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.99
2 Near_East 18.1
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.78
4 South_Central_Asian 11.93
5 North_African 8.85
6 South_Indian 3.45
7 East_African 2.71
8 East_Siberian 1.2
9 Subsaharian 1.12
10 Austronesian 0.6
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.55
12 Archaic_Human 0.49
13 Archaic_African 0.44
14 South_East_Asian 0.36
15 Tungus-Altaic 0.24
16 European_Hunters_Gatherers 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.42
2 Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) 9.27
3 Lebanese ( ) 9.39
4 Palestinian ( ) 10.26
5 Syrian ( ) 10.72
6 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 11.25
7 Jordanian ( ) 11.67
8 Samaritian ( ) 11.91
9 Turk_Adana ( ) 11.93
10 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 12
11 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 12.07
12 Turk_Jew ( ) 12.17
13 Iraki ( ) 12.72
14 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 13.05
15 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 13.11
16 Turk_Aydin ( ) 13.44
17 Italian_Jew ( ) 13.63
18 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 13.95
19 Cretan ( ) 13.99
20 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 14.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85% Lebanese ( ) + 15% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 4.14
2 61.5% Syrian ( ) + 38.5% Maltese ( ) @ 4.19
3 51.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 48.7% Iraki ( ) @ 4.28
4 91.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.5% Tamil_Singapore ( ) @ 4.29
5 51.5% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 48.5% Iraki ( ) @ 4.29
6 63% Syrian ( ) + 37% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 4.3
7 59.4% Syrian ( ) + 40.6% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 4.31
8 60.5% Syrian ( ) + 39.5% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) @ 4.32
9 77.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 22.5% Yemen ( ) @ 4.33
10 83.5% Lebanese ( ) + 16.5% Portugese ( ) @ 4.34
11 91.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.7% Marathi ( ) @ 4.35
12 51.9% Iraki ( ) + 48.1% Italian_Jew ( ) @ 4.36
13 88.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 11.7% Cochin_Jew ( ) @ 4.36
14 91.1% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.9% Hindi ( ) @ 4.37
15 83.5% Lebanese ( ) + 16.5% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 4.43
16 85.5% Lebanese ( ) + 14.5% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 4.44
17 84% Lebanese ( ) + 16% Orcadian ( ) @ 4.45
18 85.1% Lebanese ( ) + 14.9% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 4.46
19 92% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8% Meghawal ( ) @ 4.47
20 92% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8% Bengali ( ) @ 4.47


JTest is pretty normal, the only Ashkenazi matches I've come across on Gedmatch (and I define those as 20+ Ashkenazi on the Jtest) were Italian or Greek Jews who also had Sephardic in their top results in some calculators
# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 37.18
2 MIDDLE_EASTERN 21.22
3 WEST_ASIAN 15.21
4 WEST_MED 11.19
5 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.44
6 EAST_AFRICAN 2.99
7 ASHKENAZI 2.65
8 ATLANTIC 1.61
9 EAST_EURO 1.3
10 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 0.99
11 WEST_AFRICAN 0.83
12 EAST_ASIAN 0.83
13 SOUTH_BALTIC 0.55

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 8.79
2 Samaritan 9.21
3 Mandean 13.41
4 Assyrian 14.77
5 Druze 15.68
6 GR 18.85
7 TR 19.01
8 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 19.1
9 Armenian 19.54
10 Kurdish 21.07
11 IR 22.09
12 Algerian 29.9
13 Tuscan 30.48
14 AJ 31.92
15 Moroccan 33.66
16 North_Italian 34.66
17 RO 34.99
18 GE 35.79
19 Bedouin 35.99
20 Serbian 36.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.8% Samaritan + 13.2% Kalash @ 4.73
2 87.1% Samaritan + 12.9% Burusho @ 5.03
3 84.3% Samaritan + 15.7% Brahui @ 5.15
4 84.5% Samaritan + 15.5% Balochi @ 5.16
5 83.5% Samaritan + 16.5% Lezgin @ 5.44
6 71.1% Samaritan + 28.9% TR @ 5.47
7 88.2% IQ + 11.8% Sardinian @ 5.47
8 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Sindhi @ 5.59
9 74.6% Samaritan + 25.4% IR @ 5.68
10 52% IQ + 48% Samaritan @ 5.84
11 74.3% Samaritan + 25.7% Kurdish @ 5.99
12 90.7% Samaritan + 9.3% IN @ 6.12
13 91.3% Samaritan + 8.7% Gujarati @ 6.22
14 91.1% Samaritan + 8.9% Bangladeshi @ 6.23
15 84.6% Samaritan + 15.4% GE @ 6.62
16 75.5% IQ + 24.5% GR @ 6.66
17 74.3% Samaritan + 25.7% Armenian @ 6.68
18 76.2% IQ + 23.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.79
19 74.5% Samaritan + 25.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.9
20 85% Samaritan + 15% RO @ 6.96

[Pine]

Idk how seriously mytrueancestry results should be taken but from what I've seen so far, Sephardic Jews have Canaanite/Semite in their closest ancient populations while Ashkenazim are closer to Romans. Since the free version does not show all top 20 results though it could be that they have Canaanite somewhere in the top 20 as well though.

I think my Gedmatch results are mostly normal when it comes to single population distances, a couple of calculators give me slightly atypical results for mixed mode though. MDLP 16 and k23b show me as Syrian Jew but I believe I've seen a Lebanese person here with Syrian Jew as top result in MDLP K23b as well. It is a pretty close distance though:

MDLP K16
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.93
2 Neolithic 17.01
3 NearEast 12.5
4 Steppe 7.83
5 NorthAfrican 6.37
6 Indian 5.16
7 EastAfrican 2.27
8 Subsaharian 1.58
9 NorthEastEuropean 1.22
10 SouthEastAsian 1.2
11 Oceanic 0.91
12 Amerindian 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew (Syria) 2.98
2 Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) 3.2
3 Lebanese_Christian (Lebanon) 3.98
4 Arab_Israel (Iqrit) 4.57
5 Jordanian (Jordanian) 5.5
6 Samaritan (Israel) 6.18
7 Arab_Israel (Shefa_Amr) 6.7
8 Syrian (Syria) 6.72
9 Lebanese (Lebanon) 7.72
10 Assyrian (Iran) 7.95
11 Jew (Sephardim) 8.44
12 Jew (Turkish_Sephardim) 8.46
13 Palestinian (Israel) 8.56
14 Jew (Azerbaijan) 8.76
15 Jew (Turkey) 8.76
16 Cypriot (Cyprus) 8.8
17 Jew (Georgia) 8.86
18 Jew (Kurdish) 8.98
19 Turk (Adana) 9.44
20 Iraki (Irak) 9.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.6% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 19.4% Jew (Morocco) @ 2.04
2 71.7% Jew (Syria) + 28.3% Jordanian (Jordanian) @ 2.21
3 81.1% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 18.9% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.24
4 81.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 18.5% Jew (Libya) @ 2.26
5 94.4% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.6% Spanish (Canarias) @ 2.44
6 96.1% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 3.9% Berber (Algeria) @ 2.45
7 83.8% Jew (Syria) + 16.2% Jew (Kurdish) @ 2.47
8 79% Jew (Syria) + 21% Syrian (Syria) @ 2.47
9 94.8% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.2% Algerian (Algeria) @ 2.48
10 97.2% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 2.8% Mozabite (Algeria) @ 2.5
11 94.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.5% Moroccan (Morocco) @ 2.52
12 91% Jew (Syria) + 9% Iranian (Kerman) @ 2.53
13 53.2% Jew (Kurdish) + 46.8% Jew (Algeria) @ 2.54
14 96.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 3.5% Saharawi (Morocco) @ 2.54
15 94.5% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 5.5% Tunisian (Tunis) @ 2.55
16 94.6% Jew (Syria) + 5.4% Iranian (Bandari) @ 2.56
17 86.7% Jew (Syria) + 13.3% Assyrian (Turkey) @ 2.56
18 85.8% Jew (Syria) + 14.2% Armenian (Gavar) @ 2.56
19 95.9% Lebanese_Muslim (Lebanon) + 4.1% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 2.57
20 82.9% Jew (Syria) + 17.1% Lebanese (Lebanon) @ 2.57


MDLP K23b Syrian Jew is top result as well but it's much further (using my myheritage kit it's a little closer at 7.6 and also top result but obviously still far), so the noteworthy thing here is more the far distance to non-Jewish Levant populations
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.99
2 Near_East 18.1
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.78
4 South_Central_Asian 11.93
5 North_African 8.85
6 South_Indian 3.45
7 East_African 2.71
8 East_Siberian 1.2
9 Subsaharian 1.12
10 Austronesian 0.6
11 Ancestral_Altaic 0.55
12 Archaic_Human 0.49
13 Archaic_African 0.44
14 South_East_Asian 0.36
15 Tungus-Altaic 0.24
16 European_Hunters_Gatherers 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew ( ) 8.42
2 Muslim_Arabs_Israel ( ) 9.27
3 Lebanese ( ) 9.39
4 Palestinian ( ) 10.26
5 Syrian ( ) 10.72
6 Lebanese_Muslim ( ) 11.25
7 Jordanian ( ) 11.67
8 Samaritian ( ) 11.91
9 Turk_Adana ( ) 11.93
10 Turk_Balikesir ( ) 12
11 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 12.07
12 Turk_Jew ( ) 12.17
13 Iraki ( ) 12.72
14 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 13.05
15 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 13.11
16 Turk_Aydin ( ) 13.44
17 Italian_Jew ( ) 13.63
18 Iraqi_Chaldean ( ) 13.95
19 Cretan ( ) 13.99
20 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 14.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85% Lebanese ( ) + 15% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 4.14
2 61.5% Syrian ( ) + 38.5% Maltese ( ) @ 4.19
3 51.3% Turk_Jew ( ) + 48.7% Iraki ( ) @ 4.28
4 91.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.5% Tamil_Singapore ( ) @ 4.29
5 51.5% Sephardic_Jew ( ) + 48.5% Iraki ( ) @ 4.29
6 63% Syrian ( ) + 37% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 4.3
7 59.4% Syrian ( ) + 40.6% Sicilian_West ( ) @ 4.31
8 60.5% Syrian ( ) + 39.5% Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) @ 4.32
9 77.5% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 22.5% Yemen ( ) @ 4.33
10 83.5% Lebanese ( ) + 16.5% Portugese ( ) @ 4.34
11 91.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.7% Marathi ( ) @ 4.35
12 51.9% Iraki ( ) + 48.1% Italian_Jew ( ) @ 4.36
13 88.3% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 11.7% Cochin_Jew ( ) @ 4.36
14 91.1% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8.9% Hindi ( ) @ 4.37
15 83.5% Lebanese ( ) + 16.5% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR ( ) @ 4.43
16 85.5% Lebanese ( ) + 14.5% Spanish_Castilla_y_Leon_IBS ( ) @ 4.44
17 84% Lebanese ( ) + 16% Orcadian ( ) @ 4.45
18 85.1% Lebanese ( ) + 14.9% Spanish_Extremadura_IBS ( ) @ 4.46
19 92% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8% Meghawal ( ) @ 4.47
20 92% Syrian_Jew ( ) + 8% Bengali ( ) @ 4.47


JTest is pretty normal, the only Ashkenazi matches I've come across on Gedmatch (and I define those as 20+ Ashkenazi on the Jtest) were Italian or Greek Jews
# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 37.18
2 MIDDLE_EASTERN 21.22
3 WEST_ASIAN 15.21
4 WEST_MED 11.19
5 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.44
6 EAST_AFRICAN 2.99
7 ASHKENAZI 2.65
8 ATLANTIC 1.61
9 EAST_EURO 1.3
10 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 0.99
11 WEST_AFRICAN 0.83
12 EAST_ASIAN 0.83
13 SOUTH_BALTIC 0.55

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 8.79
2 Samaritan 9.21
3 Mandean 13.41
4 Assyrian 14.77
5 Druze 15.68
6 GR 18.85
7 TR 19.01
8 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 19.1
9 Armenian 19.54
10 Kurdish 21.07
11 IR 22.09
12 Algerian 29.9
13 Tuscan 30.48
14 AJ 31.92
15 Moroccan 33.66
16 North_Italian 34.66
17 RO 34.99
18 GE 35.79
19 Bedouin 35.99
20 Serbian 36.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.8% Samaritan + 13.2% Kalash @ 4.73
2 87.1% Samaritan + 12.9% Burusho @ 5.03
3 84.3% Samaritan + 15.7% Brahui @ 5.15
4 84.5% Samaritan + 15.5% Balochi @ 5.16
5 83.5% Samaritan + 16.5% Lezgin @ 5.44
6 71.1% Samaritan + 28.9% TR @ 5.47
7 88.2% IQ + 11.8% Sardinian @ 5.47
8 88.5% Samaritan + 11.5% Sindhi @ 5.59
9 74.6% Samaritan + 25.4% IR @ 5.68
10 52% IQ + 48% Samaritan @ 5.84
11 74.3% Samaritan + 25.7% Kurdish @ 5.99
12 90.7% Samaritan + 9.3% IN @ 6.12
13 91.3% Samaritan + 8.7% Gujarati @ 6.22
14 91.1% Samaritan + 8.9% Bangladeshi @ 6.23
15 84.6% Samaritan + 15.4% GE @ 6.62
16 75.5% IQ + 24.5% GR @ 6.66
17 74.3% Samaritan + 25.7% Armenian @ 6.68
18 76.2% IQ + 23.8% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.79
19 74.5% Samaritan + 25.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 6.9
20 85% Samaritan + 15% RO @ 6.96


Greek Jews are either Romaniote or Sephardic. Italian Jews are normally not Ashkenazi; they're normally Sephardi and Italki. How did you know your matches were Italian Jews?

[whoibe]

Greek Jews are either Romaniote or Sephardic. Italian Jews are normally not Ashkenazi; they're normally Sephardi and Italki. How did you know your matches were Italian Jews?

Looking at a couple of them again they score around 30 ashkenazi in the Jtest and their top populations are a mix of Greek and Italian with the odd Italian_Jew in the Oracle (but not in the top 5-10 populations), as well as Sephardic. How would you classify them?

Interestingly I've also seen Lebanese_Druze in the Oracle here and there, how common is that?

[Pine]

Looking at a couple of them again they score around 30 ashkenazi in the Jtest and their top populations are a mix of Greek and Italian with the odd Italian_Jew in the Oracle (but not in the top 5-10 populations), as well as Sephardic. How would you classify them?

Interestingly I've also seen Lebanese_Druze in the Oracle here and there, how common is that?

This is my mixed oracle. Look similar?

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.74
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 20.74
3 GR 22.16
4 Tuscan 25.91
5 TR 27.57
6 RO 28.97
7 North_Italian 29.06
8 IQ 29.75
9 Assyrian 30.01
10 Mandean 30.19
11 Armenian 30.49
12 Serbian 30.87
13 Samaritan 31.2
14 Kurdish 31.83
15 IR 32.39
16 PT 32.99
17 Algerian 33.96
18 Druze 34
19 Moroccan 34.09
20 ES 34.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.8% AJ + 10.2% Mandean @ 3.29
2 89.8% AJ + 10.2% Assyrian @ 3.3
3 90% AJ + 10% Armenian @ 3.33
4 90.5% AJ + 9.5% IQ @ 3.57
5 90.9% AJ + 9.1% Samaritan @ 3.59
6 93.3% AJ + 6.7% GE @ 3.73
7 91.6% AJ + 8.4% Kurdish @ 3.75
8 90.4% AJ + 9.6% TR @ 3.76
9 92.5% AJ + 7.5% Druze @ 3.87
10 92.3% AJ + 7.7% IR @ 3.89
11 96% AJ + 4% Bedouin @ 4.25
12 95.4% AJ + 4.6% Lezgin @ 4.32
13 92.5% AJ + 7.5% GR @ 4.39
14 92.3% AJ + 7.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.42
15 96.6% AJ + 3.4% Brahui @ 4.45
16 96.8% AJ + 3.2% Balochi @ 4.46
17 96.2% AJ + 3.8% Algerian @ 4.55
18 97.4% AJ + 2.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.61
19 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Chinese @ 4.61
20 99% AJ + 1% Northern_Han_Chinese @ 4.62

[whoibe]

This is my mixed oracle. Look similar?

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.74
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 20.74
3 GR 22.16
4 Tuscan 25.91
5 TR 27.57
6 RO 28.97
7 North_Italian 29.06
8 IQ 29.75
9 Assyrian 30.01
10 Mandean 30.19
11 Armenian 30.49
12 Serbian 30.87
13 Samaritan 31.2
14 Kurdish 31.83
15 IR 32.39
16 PT 32.99
17 Algerian 33.96
18 Druze 34
19 Moroccan 34.09
20 ES 34.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.8% AJ + 10.2% Mandean @ 3.29
2 89.8% AJ + 10.2% Assyrian @ 3.3
3 90% AJ + 10% Armenian @ 3.33
4 90.5% AJ + 9.5% IQ @ 3.57
5 90.9% AJ + 9.1% Samaritan @ 3.59
6 93.3% AJ + 6.7% GE @ 3.73
7 91.6% AJ + 8.4% Kurdish @ 3.75
8 90.4% AJ + 9.6% TR @ 3.76
9 92.5% AJ + 7.5% Druze @ 3.87
10 92.3% AJ + 7.7% IR @ 3.89
11 96% AJ + 4% Bedouin @ 4.25
12 95.4% AJ + 4.6% Lezgin @ 4.32
13 92.5% AJ + 7.5% GR @ 4.39
14 92.3% AJ + 7.7% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.42
15 96.6% AJ + 3.4% Brahui @ 4.45
16 96.8% AJ + 3.2% Balochi @ 4.46
17 96.2% AJ + 3.8% Algerian @ 4.55
18 97.4% AJ + 2.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.61
19 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Chinese @ 4.61
20 99% AJ + 1% Northern_Han_Chinese @ 4.62

VERY familiar :D Here's a random match's Jtest, nearly identical:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.15
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 21.6
3 GR 22.55
4 Tuscan 25.45
5 RO 27.98
6 North_Italian 28.35
7 TR 29.69
8 Serbian 29.97
9 PT 32.19
10 IQ 32.2
11 Assyrian 32.3
12 Mandean 32.57
13 Samaritan 32.82
14 Armenian 33.14
15 Kurdish 33.88
16 ES 34.03
17 AT 34.05
18 HU 34.18
19 IR 34.3
20 Druze 34.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.5% AJ + 6.5% Druze @ 3.41
2 95.6% AJ + 4.4% Samaritan @ 3.87
3 94.5% AJ + 5.5% GR @ 3.94
4 96.4% AJ + 3.6% Assyrian @ 3.98
5 96.7% AJ + 3.3% Mandean @ 4
6 98.8% AJ + 1.2% Selkup @ 4.04
7 99.2% AJ + 0.8% Nganassan @ 4.05
8 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Chukchi @ 4.05
9 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Koryak @ 4.05
10 97.5% AJ + 2.5% Kurdish @ 4.06
11 97.7% AJ + 2.3% IR @ 4.07
12 97.4% AJ + 2.6% TR @ 4.07
13 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Armenian @ 4.07
14 96.6% AJ + 3.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.08
15 97.8% AJ + 2.2% IQ @ 4.09
16 99.4% AJ + 0.6% KZ @ 4.13
17 98.7% AJ + 1.3% Tuscan @ 4.14
18 99.8% AJ + 0.2% Japanese @ 4.14
19 99.8% AJ + 0.2% KR @ 4.14
20 99.9% AJ + 0.1% Northern_Han_Chinese @ 4.15


but for example MDLP k23b shows that match as Italian Jew in mixed mode:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.93
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.35
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.73
4 Near_East 11.34
5 North_African 7.76
6 South_Central_Asian 4.85
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.87
8 Melano_Polynesian 1.34
9 Amerindian 1.09
10 Arctic 0.81
11 Tungus-Altaic 0.58
12 East_Siberian 0.49
13 Paleo_Siberian 0.21
14 South_East_Asian 0.2
15 Australoid 0.18
16 Austronesian 0.17
17 Khoisan 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 3.13
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 4.85
3 Italian_Jew ( ) 4.86
4 French_Jew ( ) 4.98
5 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.23
6 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.59
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 5.7
8 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 5.73
9 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.53
10 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.69
11 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.78
12 Maltese ( ) 6.85
13 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.89
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.53
15 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 7.62
16 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.72
17 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.96
18 Cretan ( ) 8.4
19 Bulgarian ( ) 8.63
20 Greek_Northwest ( ) 8.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 16.7% Ukrainian_East ( ) @ 2.15
2 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Don_cossack ( ) @ 2.18
3 83% Italian_Jew ( ) + 17% Ukrainian_Center ( ) @ 2.2
4 75.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 24.9% Croat_BH ( ) @ 2.2
5 86.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.4% Mordovian ( ) @ 2.21
6 58.5% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) + 41.5% North_European ( ) @ 2.24
7 74.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 25.4% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.25
8 84.2% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.8% Belarusian-East ( ) @ 2.26
9 84.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.9% Ukrainian ( ) @ 2.27
10 82% Italian_Jew ( ) + 18% Ukrainian_West ( ) @ 2.27
11 84.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.4% Russian_South ( ) @ 2.28
12 85.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.7% Belarusian ( ) @ 2.29
13 84.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.6% Pole ( ) @ 2.3
14 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Belarusian_Russian ( ) @ 2.3
15 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) @ 2.31
16 85.5% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.5% Russian-West ( ) @ 2.33
17 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Belarusian_West ( ) @ 2.33
18 57.2% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 42.8% Gagauz ( ) @ 2.34
19 66.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 33.8% Bulgarian ( ) @ 2.34
20 86.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.6% Moksha ( ) @ 2.34

[Pine]

VERY familiar :D Here's a random match's Jtest, nearly identical:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.15
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 21.6
3 GR 22.55
4 Tuscan 25.45
5 RO 27.98
6 North_Italian 28.35
7 TR 29.69
8 Serbian 29.97
9 PT 32.19
10 IQ 32.2
11 Assyrian 32.3
12 Mandean 32.57
13 Samaritan 32.82
14 Armenian 33.14
15 Kurdish 33.88
16 ES 34.03
17 AT 34.05
18 HU 34.18
19 IR 34.3
20 Druze 34.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.5% AJ + 6.5% Druze @ 3.41
2 95.6% AJ + 4.4% Samaritan @ 3.87
3 94.5% AJ + 5.5% GR @ 3.94
4 96.4% AJ + 3.6% Assyrian @ 3.98
5 96.7% AJ + 3.3% Mandean @ 4
6 98.8% AJ + 1.2% Selkup @ 4.04
7 99.2% AJ + 0.8% Nganassan @ 4.05
8 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Chukchi @ 4.05
9 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Koryak @ 4.05
10 97.5% AJ + 2.5% Kurdish @ 4.06
11 97.7% AJ + 2.3% IR @ 4.07
12 97.4% AJ + 2.6% TR @ 4.07
13 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Armenian @ 4.07
14 96.6% AJ + 3.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.08
15 97.8% AJ + 2.2% IQ @ 4.09
16 99.4% AJ + 0.6% KZ @ 4.13
17 98.7% AJ + 1.3% Tuscan @ 4.14
18 99.8% AJ + 0.2% Japanese @ 4.14
19 99.8% AJ + 0.2% KR @ 4.14
20 99.9% AJ + 0.1% Northern_Han_Chinese @ 4.15


but for example MDLP k23b shows that match as Italian Jew in mixed mode:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.93
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.35
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.73
4 Near_East 11.34
5 North_African 7.76
6 South_Central_Asian 4.85
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.87
8 Melano_Polynesian 1.34
9 Amerindian 1.09
10 Arctic 0.81
11 Tungus-Altaic 0.58
12 East_Siberian 0.49
13 Paleo_Siberian 0.21
14 South_East_Asian 0.2
15 Australoid 0.18
16 Austronesian 0.17
17 Khoisan 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 3.13
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 4.85
3 Italian_Jew ( ) 4.86
4 French_Jew ( ) 4.98
5 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.23
6 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.59
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 5.7
8 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 5.73
9 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.53
10 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.69
11 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.78
12 Maltese ( ) 6.85
13 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.89
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.53
15 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 7.62
16 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.72
17 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.96
18 Cretan ( ) 8.4
19 Bulgarian ( ) 8.63
20 Greek_Northwest ( ) 8.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 16.7% Ukrainian_East ( ) @ 2.15
2 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Don_cossack ( ) @ 2.18
3 83% Italian_Jew ( ) + 17% Ukrainian_Center ( ) @ 2.2
4 75.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 24.9% Croat_BH ( ) @ 2.2
5 86.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.4% Mordovian ( ) @ 2.21
6 58.5% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) + 41.5% North_European ( ) @ 2.24
7 74.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 25.4% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.25
8 84.2% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.8% Belarusian-East ( ) @ 2.26
9 84.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.9% Ukrainian ( ) @ 2.27
10 82% Italian_Jew ( ) + 18% Ukrainian_West ( ) @ 2.27
11 84.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.4% Russian_South ( ) @ 2.28
12 85.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.7% Belarusian ( ) @ 2.29
13 84.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.6% Pole ( ) @ 2.3
14 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Belarusian_Russian ( ) @ 2.3
15 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) @ 2.31
16 85.5% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.5% Russian-West ( ) @ 2.33
17 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Belarusian_West ( ) @ 2.33
18 57.2% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 42.8% Gagauz ( ) @ 2.34
19 66.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 33.8% Bulgarian ( ) @ 2.34
20 86.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.6% Moksha ( ) @ 2.34


He's not an "Italian Jew in mixed mode", but someone modeled as an admixed Italian Jew. If you were to contact him, he'd either tell you he's Ashkenazi, which is the answer you'll get 99% of the time with such an oracle, or he'll say he's Ashkenazi with distant Sephardi ancestry.

[Pine]

VERY familiar :D Here's a random match's Jtest, nearly identical:

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 AJ 4.15
2 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 21.6
3 GR 22.55
4 Tuscan 25.45
5 RO 27.98
6 North_Italian 28.35
7 TR 29.69
8 Serbian 29.97
9 PT 32.19
10 IQ 32.2
11 Assyrian 32.3
12 Mandean 32.57
13 Samaritan 32.82
14 Armenian 33.14
15 Kurdish 33.88
16 ES 34.03
17 AT 34.05
18 HU 34.18
19 IR 34.3
20 Druze 34.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.5% AJ + 6.5% Druze @ 3.41
2 95.6% AJ + 4.4% Samaritan @ 3.87
3 94.5% AJ + 5.5% GR @ 3.94
4 96.4% AJ + 3.6% Assyrian @ 3.98
5 96.7% AJ + 3.3% Mandean @ 4
6 98.8% AJ + 1.2% Selkup @ 4.04
7 99.2% AJ + 0.8% Nganassan @ 4.05
8 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Chukchi @ 4.05
9 99.1% AJ + 0.9% Koryak @ 4.05
10 97.5% AJ + 2.5% Kurdish @ 4.06
11 97.7% AJ + 2.3% IR @ 4.07
12 97.4% AJ + 2.6% TR @ 4.07
13 97.7% AJ + 2.3% Armenian @ 4.07
14 96.6% AJ + 3.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.08
15 97.8% AJ + 2.2% IQ @ 4.09
16 99.4% AJ + 0.6% KZ @ 4.13
17 98.7% AJ + 1.3% Tuscan @ 4.14
18 99.8% AJ + 0.2% Japanese @ 4.14
19 99.8% AJ + 0.2% KR @ 4.14
20 99.9% AJ + 0.1% Northern_Han_Chinese @ 4.15


but for example MDLP k23b shows that match as Italian Jew in mixed mode:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 36.93
2 European_Early_Farmers 20.35
3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 11.73
4 Near_East 11.34
5 North_African 7.76
6 South_Central_Asian 4.85
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.87
8 Melano_Polynesian 1.34
9 Amerindian 1.09
10 Arctic 0.81
11 Tungus-Altaic 0.58
12 East_Siberian 0.49
13 Paleo_Siberian 0.21
14 South_East_Asian 0.2
15 Australoid 0.18
16 Austronesian 0.17
17 Khoisan 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 3.13
2 Turk_Jew ( ) 4.85
3 Italian_Jew ( ) 4.86
4 French_Jew ( ) 4.98
5 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.23
6 Sicilian_East ( ) 5.59
7 Ashkenazi ( ) 5.7
8 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 5.73
9 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 6.53
10 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 6.69
11 Sicilian_West ( ) 6.78
12 Maltese ( ) 6.85
13 Romanian_Jew ( ) 6.89
14 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 7.53
15 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 7.62
16 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 7.72
17 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 7.96
18 Cretan ( ) 8.4
19 Bulgarian ( ) 8.63
20 Greek_Northwest ( ) 8.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 16.7% Ukrainian_East ( ) @ 2.15
2 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Don_cossack ( ) @ 2.18
3 83% Italian_Jew ( ) + 17% Ukrainian_Center ( ) @ 2.2
4 75.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 24.9% Croat_BH ( ) @ 2.2
5 86.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.4% Mordovian ( ) @ 2.21
6 58.5% Christian_Arabs_Israel ( ) + 41.5% North_European ( ) @ 2.24
7 74.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 25.4% Bosnian ( ) @ 2.25
8 84.2% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.8% Belarusian-East ( ) @ 2.26
9 84.1% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.9% Ukrainian ( ) @ 2.27
10 82% Italian_Jew ( ) + 18% Ukrainian_West ( ) @ 2.27
11 84.6% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.4% Russian_South ( ) @ 2.28
12 85.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.7% Belarusian ( ) @ 2.29
13 84.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.6% Pole ( ) @ 2.3
14 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Belarusian_Russian ( ) @ 2.3
15 85.8% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.2% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) @ 2.31
16 85.5% Italian_Jew ( ) + 14.5% Russian-West ( ) @ 2.33
17 84.3% Italian_Jew ( ) + 15.7% Belarusian_West ( ) @ 2.33
18 57.2% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 42.8% Gagauz ( ) @ 2.34
19 66.2% Turk_Jew ( ) + 33.8% Bulgarian ( ) @ 2.34
20 86.4% Italian_Jew ( ) + 13.6% Moksha ( ) @ 2.34


He's not an "Italian Jew in mixed mode", but someone modeled as an admixed Italian Jew. If you were to contact him, he'd either tell you he's Ashkenazi, which is the answer you'll get 99% of the time with such an oracle, or he'll say he's Ashkenazi with distant Sephardi ancestry.

[whoibe]

He's not an "Italian Jew in mixed mode", but someone modeled as an admixed Italian Jew. If you were to contact him, he'd either tell you he's Ashkenazi, which is the answer you'll get 99% of the time with such an oracle, or he'll say he's Ashkenazi with distant Sephardi ancestry.

How do you think an Italian Jew's results would look like? Low Ashkenazi on the Jtest and Sephardic/Italian_Jew in the top populations?

Also, the nmonte webrunner is finally working for me, here are some models I've tried:

https://i.imgur.com/SkVLVT9.png

https://i.imgur.com/LVhtGJQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/siq2JUE.png

https://i.imgur.com/QqPVlk1.png

[Pine]

How do you think an Italian Jew's results would look like? Low Ashkenazi on the Jtest and Sephardic/Italian_Jew in the top populations?

Also, the nmonte webrunner is finally working for me, here are some models I've tried:

https://i.imgur.com/SkVLVT9.png

https://i.imgur.com/LVhtGJQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/siq2JUE.png

https://i.imgur.com/QqPVlk1.png

Also, about earlier, mytrueancestry can't be taken that seriously. It thinks I'm Siclian. Also, I get Samaritans as a match on my map. I've only seen potentially one sephardi result (as opposed to mizrachi). An Italian Jew would not get such an eastern euro shift in their mixed mode, however I'm confident they'd get a high Ashkenazi score on the JTest, but lower than that of your match. For your nmonte, try modeling yourself on Palestininan + Sephardic Jew. Also, try Palestinian, Sephardic, Sicilian. What do you get on the Mephisto Near East K19 (admixture studio) ?

[whoibe]

Also, about earlier, mytrueancestry can't be taken that seriously. It thinks I'm Siclian. Also, I get Samaritans as a match on my map. I've only seen potentially one sephardi result (as opposed to mizrachi). An Italian Jew would not get such an eastern euro shift in their mixed mode, however I'm confident they'd get a high Ashkenazi score on the JTest, but lower than that of your match. For your nmonte, try modeling yourself on Palestininan + Sephardic Jew. Also, try Palestinian, Sephardic, Sicilian. What do you get on the Mephisto Near East K19 (admixture studio) ?

So I've decided to pay for Gedmatch's triangulation tool to try and get a hint at who the common ancestor is that I inherited that one particular segment I seem to match many Sephardim on from. Looking at the top single populations of the matches, the Sephardic matches and I share a common ancestor (according to the triangulation groups) with Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, Portugese and.. the most common in that triangulation group: ....Mexicans??? Why do I have so many Mexican matches and how are they connected to Italians/Greeks/etc.. ?

I was hoping they would all have one common top population and that I'd get a pretty clear indication of the origin of the common ancestor but the triangulated matches are all over the place.

Also, Mepihsto K19 seems pretty normal:
https://i.imgur.com/ICJdYyn.png

[Pine]

So I've decided to pay for Gedmatch's triangulation tool to try and get a hint at who the common ancestor is that I inherited that one particular segment I seem to match many Sephardim on from. Looking at the top single populations of the matches, the Sephardic matches and I share a common ancestor (according to the triangulation groups) with Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, Portugese and.. the most common in that triangulation group: ....Mexicans??? Why do I have so many Mexican matches and how are they connected to Italians/Greeks/etc.. ?

I was hoping they would all have one common top population and that I'd get a pretty clear indication of the origin of the common ancestor but the triangulated matches are all over the place.

Also, Mepihsto K19 seems pretty normal:
https://i.imgur.com/ICJdYyn.png

Mexicans are famous for Sephardi admixture, especially in the north. I also get distant Mexican matches.

[whoibe]

Mexicans are famous for Sephardi admixture, especially in the north. I also get distant Mexican matches.

Do you also get Colombian/Puerto Rican? A few show up in the triangulated groups as well. I believe many Jews were also driven there by the inquisition.
What sounds more plausible, genetically speaking?:
1) I share a common South European ancestry with my Sephardic matches (Italian or Greek) and my Mexican/Iberian matches are also connected to me through distant Italian/Greek ancestry that is part of their sephardic ancestry
2) My Iberian, Mexican and Sephardic matches all share a common Sephardic ancestor with me

[Pine]

Do you also get Colombian/Puerto Rican? A few show up in the triangulated groups as well. I believe many Jews were also driven there by the inquisition.
What sounds more plausible, genetically speaking?:
1) I share a common South European ancestry with my Sephardic matches (Italian or Greek) and my Mexican/Iberian matches are also connected to me through distant Italian/Greek ancestry that is part of their sephardic ancestry
2) My Iberian, Mexican and Sephardic matches all share a common Sephardic ancestor with me

I get a ton of Puerto Rican matches, not sure about Colombian (I'll check later). And the inquisition is precisely why they have Sephardi admixture. As for your question, the best way to check right now is whether you have more matches from the new world or from Iberia. I only get a couple Spaniards, but plenty Hispanics (mostly Puerto Ricans and Mexicans). Of course, we need to keep in mind that less Spaniards might take these tests. Your Mephisto K19 is kinda like mine, but with reduced euro. You also score less euro than other Levantines on it. Here is mine:

https://i.imgur.com/lei4ldw.png


Mind showing your Eurogenes K15?

[whoibe]

I get a ton of Puerto Rican matches, not sure about Colombian (I'll check later). And the inquisition is precisely why they have Sephardi admixture. As for your question, the best way to check right now is whether you have more matches from the new world or from Iberia. I only get a couple Spaniards, but plenty Hispanics (mostly Puerto Ricans and Mexicans). Of course, we need to keep in mind that less Spaniards might take these tests. Your Mephisto K19 is kinda like mine, but with reduced euro. You also score less euro than other Levantines on it. Here is mine:


Mind showing your Eurogenes K15?

Actually, now that I've taken a second look at Mephisto k19, I'm wondering why I score 6.5% Baloch-Kalash. The Lebanese results here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13347-Mephisto-s-Near-East-K19) all have nearly 0%. I score 0.24% Kalash on Eurasia K20 so I guess the 6.5% on Mephisto are Baloch (why are they grouped together anyways?)

As for whether I have more Iberian or New World matches, since I obviously can't go through all my Gedmatch matches, in the triangulated group of 21 matches:

-8 are Sephardic
-6 are Mexican/Puerto Rican/Colombian (one of them is Spanish @ distance of 29 in k13 but Puerto Rican/Colombian/Mexican around 10 in other calculators)
-2 are Italian
-1 is either Greek, Italian or Jew_Romania depending on calculator
-1 is french, slovenian or italian depending on calculator
-1 is hungarian/romanian/serbian
-1 is north african
-1 is scottish/irish

This is my Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 38.81
2 West_Asian 18.49
3 West_Med 12.87
4 Red_Sea 12.36
5 Atlantic 4.34
6 Northeast_African 4.12
7 South_Asian 3.7
8 Eastern_Euro 2.19
9 Sub-Saharan 1.34
10 Southeast_Asian 1.2
11 Baltic 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 4.59
2 Lebanese_Muslim 6.11
3 Samaritan 7.36
4 Jordanian 7.44
5 Cyprian 8.02
6 Palestinian 8.65
7 Lebanese_Christian 9.1
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.03
9 Libyan_Jewish 11.09
10 Bedouin 11.53
11 Kurdish_Jewish 11.74
12 Iranian_Jewish 12.03
13 Lebanese_Druze 12.24
14 Sephardic_Jewish 12.62
15 Assyrian 13.6
16 Algerian_Jewish 13.69
17 Italian_Jewish 14.22
18 Egyptian 16.38
19 Turkish 16.54
20 Georgian_Jewish 16.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 29.1% Moroccan @ 2.95
2 70.6% Iranian_Jewish + 29.4% Moroccan @ 3.33
3 71.7% Kurdish_Jewish + 28.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.49
4 67.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 32.1% Tunisian @ 3.51
5 69.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 30.8% Algerian @ 3.66
6 94.2% Syrian + 5.8% Sardinian @ 3.71
7 79% Syrian + 21% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.88
8 84.3% Syrian + 15.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.88
9 75% Syrian + 25% Cyprian @ 3.95
10 89.1% Samaritan + 10.9% Burusho @ 3.99
11 71.4% Iranian_Jewish + 28.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.01
12 68.8% Iranian_Jewish + 31.2% Algerian @ 4.04
13 92.7% Syrian + 7.3% Moroccan @ 4.04
14 82.7% Syrian + 17.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.05
15 93% Syrian + 7% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.06
16 91.8% Syrian + 8.2% Tunisian @ 4.07
17 85.9% Samaritan + 14.1% Tadjik @ 4.1
18 85.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 14.1% Moroccan @ 4.11
19 75.2% Syrian + 24.8% Samaritan @ 4.12
20 67.6% Iranian_Jewish + 32.4% Tunisian @ 4.13

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Jordanian @ 4.725829


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian_Jewish +25% Moroccan +25% Samaritan @ 2.467162


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
1 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.467162
2 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.493130
3 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.525001
4 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.603343
5 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.743162
6 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.797244
7 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.882824
8 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Mozabite_Berber @ 2.930748
9 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Mozabite_Berber @ 2.947646
10 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.949318
11 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.970576
12 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.984819
13 Kurdish + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.998119
14 Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 3.060757
15 Algerian + Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Samaritan @ 3.108000
16 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 3.112475
17 Assyrian + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 3.131721
18 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan + Tunisian @ 3.137646
19 Algerian + Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan @ 3.141199
20 Cyprian + Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan @ 3.179383

[Pine]

Actually, now that I've taken a second look at Mephisto k19, I'm wondering why I score 6.5% Baloch-Kalash. The Lebanese results here (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?13347-Mephisto-s-Near-East-K19) all have nearly 0%. I score 0.24% Kalash on Eurasia K20 so I guess the 6.5% on Mephisto are Baloch (why are they grouped together anyways?)

As for whether I have more Iberian or New World matches, since I obviously can't go through all my Gedmatch matches, in the triangulated group of 21 matches:

-8 are Sephardic
-6 are Mexican/Puerto Rican/Colombian (one of them is Spanish @ distance of 29 in k13 but Puerto Rican/Colombian/Mexican around 10 in other calculators)
-2 are Italian
-1 is either Greek, Italian or Jew_Romania depending on calculator
-1 is french, slovenian or italian depending on calculator
-1 is hungarian/romanian/serbian
-1 is north african
-1 is scottish/irish

This is my Eurogenes K15:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 38.81
2 West_Asian 18.49
3 West_Med 12.87
4 Red_Sea 12.36
5 Atlantic 4.34
6 Northeast_African 4.12
7 South_Asian 3.7
8 Eastern_Euro 2.19
9 Sub-Saharan 1.34
10 Southeast_Asian 1.2
11 Baltic 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 4.59
2 Lebanese_Muslim 6.11
3 Samaritan 7.36
4 Jordanian 7.44
5 Cyprian 8.02
6 Palestinian 8.65
7 Lebanese_Christian 9.1
8 Tunisian_Jewish 10.03
9 Libyan_Jewish 11.09
10 Bedouin 11.53
11 Kurdish_Jewish 11.74
12 Iranian_Jewish 12.03
13 Lebanese_Druze 12.24
14 Sephardic_Jewish 12.62
15 Assyrian 13.6
16 Algerian_Jewish 13.69
17 Italian_Jewish 14.22
18 Egyptian 16.38
19 Turkish 16.54
20 Georgian_Jewish 16.75

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 29.1% Moroccan @ 2.95
2 70.6% Iranian_Jewish + 29.4% Moroccan @ 3.33
3 71.7% Kurdish_Jewish + 28.3% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.49
4 67.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 32.1% Tunisian @ 3.51
5 69.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 30.8% Algerian @ 3.66
6 94.2% Syrian + 5.8% Sardinian @ 3.71
7 79% Syrian + 21% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.88
8 84.3% Syrian + 15.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.88
9 75% Syrian + 25% Cyprian @ 3.95
10 89.1% Samaritan + 10.9% Burusho @ 3.99
11 71.4% Iranian_Jewish + 28.6% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.01
12 68.8% Iranian_Jewish + 31.2% Algerian @ 4.04
13 92.7% Syrian + 7.3% Moroccan @ 4.04
14 82.7% Syrian + 17.3% Libyan_Jewish @ 4.05
15 93% Syrian + 7% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.06
16 91.8% Syrian + 8.2% Tunisian @ 4.07
17 85.9% Samaritan + 14.1% Tadjik @ 4.1
18 85.9% Lebanese_Muslim + 14.1% Moroccan @ 4.11
19 75.2% Syrian + 24.8% Samaritan @ 4.12
20 67.6% Iranian_Jewish + 32.4% Tunisian @ 4.13

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Jordanian @ 4.725829


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Iranian_Jewish +25% Moroccan +25% Samaritan @ 2.467162


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
1 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.467162
2 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.493130
3 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.525001
4 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.603343
5 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.743162
6 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.797244
7 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.882824
8 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Mozabite_Berber @ 2.930748
9 Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Mozabite_Berber @ 2.947646
10 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 2.949318
11 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Mozabite_Berber + Samaritan @ 2.970576
12 Kurdish_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.984819
13 Kurdish + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 2.998119
14 Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 3.060757
15 Algerian + Iranian_Jewish + Iranian_Jewish + Samaritan @ 3.108000
16 Assyrian + Iranian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Moroccan @ 3.112475
17 Assyrian + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan + Samaritan @ 3.131721
18 Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan + Tunisian @ 3.137646
19 Algerian + Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan @ 3.141199
20 Cyprian + Iranian_Jewish + Kurdish_Jewish + Moroccan @ 3.179383

Gedmatch isn't great for determining ethnicity, especially given how much latinos vary. Are you on MyHeritage? It may be better to use for this. You'd register me as Sephardic from K13. What's interesting is that you also score high Southeast Asian, as do I. Mind posting your Eurogenes K36? It has a further breakdown of east asian types. However, based on what you have there, it's much more likely that you have a distant Sephardi ancestor than a European one.

[Longbowman]

Galilee has had a large-ish Sephardic population since the late 15th century. Plausible that you have a convert amongst your not-too-distant (but similarly, not too recent) ancestry, or a non-paternal event.

[Voskos]

Arabs and jews were practically the same until jews mixed with greeks/italians and arabs with afros.

[whoibe]

Gedmatch isn't great for determining ethnicity, especially given how much latinos vary. Are you on MyHeritage? It may be better to use for this. You'd register me as Sephardic from K13. What's interesting is that you also score high Southeast Asian, as do I. Mind posting your Eurogenes K36? It has a further breakdown of east asian types. However, based on what you have there, it's much more likely that you have a distant Sephardi ancestor than a European one.

Yea I'm on MyHeritage but I only have 120 matches there. More Iberian than South/Central-American there but I think I only share 1 or 2 of them with the Sephardic matches. What I don't understand is how come I score 7.65% south central asian on k36 while the few syrian/lebanese/palestinian results I've seen score nearly 0. On mdlp23b though they do score some south central asian. Do the 2 calculators define south central asia definitely?

My k36:
Amerindian -
Arabian 10.42 Pct
Armenian 5.18 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 22.08 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese 0.09 Pct
Italian 8.38 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.35 Pct
North_African 5.05 Pct
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 1.68 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.38 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.70 Pct
South_Central_Asian 7.65 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.75 Pct
West_Med 4.31 Pct

[Pine]

Yea I'm on MyHeritage but I only have 120 matches there. More Iberian than South/Central-American there but I think I only share 1 or 2 of them with the Sephardic matches. What I don't understand is how come I score 7.65% south central asian on k36 while the few syrian/lebanese/palestinian results I've seen score nearly 0. On mdlp23b though they do score some south central asian. Do the 2 calculators define south central asia definitely?

My k36:
Amerindian -
Arabian 10.42 Pct
Armenian 5.18 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 22.08 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese 0.09 Pct
Italian 8.38 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.35 Pct
North_African 5.05 Pct
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 1.68 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.38 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.70 Pct
South_Central_Asian 7.65 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.75 Pct
West_Med 4.31 Pct

It's easier to check for such matches by looking in the US on MyHeritage. Filter by the native american category - forget what it's called - and go to the last page and work from there. Some will clearly be full Latinos. And South Central Asia might be something around Tajikistan, but I'm not sure.

[PaleoEuropean]

I am not an expert and I don't mean to offend anyone. But the close relation of people in the Levant probably means that there are clades that are shared among both people. There were quite a few Arab Jewish tribes before and after the coming of Islam, maybe its possible that one might be descended from one of the tribes that converted. Also there are tons of people that converted to Islam out of pressure later especially after the Arab states were influenced by National Socialism and Ba'athism. It became very dangerous to be a Jew in the 20th century in Arab countries. But those are just theories.

[Pine]

I am not an expert and I don't mean to offend anyone. But the close relation of people in the Levant probably means that there are clades that are shared among both people. There were quite a few Arab Jewish tribes before and after the coming of Islam, maybe its possible that one might be descended from one of the tribes that converted. Also there are tons of people that converted to Islam out of pressure later especially after the Arab states were influenced by National Socialism and Ba'athism. It became very dangerous to be a Jew in the 20th century in Arab countries. But those are just theories.

I doubt he'd get a 12cm segment from an ancient connection.

[whoibe]

It's easier to check for such matches by looking in the US on MyHeritage. Filter by the native american category - forget what it's called - and go to the last page and work from there. Some will clearly be full Latinos. And South Central Asia might be something around Tajikistan, but I'm not sure.

It's called Mesoamerican and Andean there. I only have 120 matches total of any ethnicity. Now that I look at it most of them are pretty mixed on MyHeritage. Only one match is 90%+ Iberian. For some reason I'm seeing more Iberian matches on MyHeritage and the opposite on Gedmatch. Here are all the MyHeritage matches with Iberian or Mesoamerican and Andean:

1 - 96.2% Iberian,
2 - 66.6% Iberian, 14% Mesoamerican and Andean, 6.9% Ashkenazi
3 - 43.9% Mesoamerican and Andean, 27.8% Iberian
4 - 44.0% Iberian
5 - 18.2% Iberian, 28.8% Sephardic
6 - 43.6% Scandinavian, 42,2% Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, 14.2% Iberian
7 - 70.8% Iberian
8 - 12.4% Iberian, 72.9% North and West European
9 - 26.6% Iberian, 24.5% Scandinavian
10 - 32.5% Iberian, 61.2% English
11 - 84.6% North African, 14.2% Iberian
12 - 50.1% Iberian, 7.9% Mesoamerican and Andean
13 - 40.7% Iberian, 8.3% Mesoamerican and Andean, 4.8% Ashkenazi
14 - 21.0% Iberian, 61.4% English
15- 58.9% Iberian, 12.9% Mesoamerican and Andean

As for the (to-be-determined) Hispanics with the triangulated segment I share with some Sephardim, I've created k36 similarity maps for the 6 of them, they all score less than 19% but at least 9% Iberian on k36:
https://imgur.com/a/qh5KIYq


I doubt he'd get a 12cm segment from an ancient connection.

Are you saying that an ancient connection would not leave any segments whatsoever?

[PaleoEuropean]

I doubt he'd get a 12cm segment from an ancient connection.

Like I said though too, a lot of Jews converted under duress to keep the Arabs off their backs during the 20th century.

[Longbowman]

Like I said though too, a lot of Jews converted under duress to keep the Arabs off their backs during the 20th century.

Not in the Galilee, dude.

[PaleoEuropean]

Not in the Galilee, dude.

Yea my bad I just kinda skimmed, doing finals and just popping in and out.

[PaleoEuropean]

Not in the Galilee, dude.

Do you think Druze might be close enough to send out a false positive? I know they got Druze in Galilee.

[Kamal900]

Not in the Galilee, dude.

What do you mean? I'm from the Galilee as well like the OP, and my genetics is pretty native minus with some Arabian/Bedouin ancestry(8.5%) and some NA(15%).

[Kamal900]

Do you think Druze might be close enough to send out a false positive? I know they got Druze in Galilee.

Most of the druze of Palestine migrated from southern Syria in the late 1700's. My father's village was predominately Druze when his ancestors arrived there in the 1700's from Haifa.

[Longbowman]

Do you think Druze might be close enough to send out a false positive? I know they got Druze in Galilee.

No. They're not that akin to either group, certainly not when it comes to recent-ish admixture like this.


What do you mean? I'm from the Galilee as well like the OP, and my genetics is pretty native minus with some Arabian/Bedouin ancestry(8.5%) and some NA(15%).

Pardon? I'm talking about Jews converting to Islam or Christianity in the 20th century. Didn't happen in the Galilee.

[Kamal900]

Galilee has had a large-ish Sephardic population since the late 15th century. Plausible that you have a convert amongst your not-too-distant (but similarly, not too recent) ancestry, or a non-paternal event.

My father's family came from haifa in the late 1700's which I heard was mostly inhabited by Jews that stayed in the region. My clan's name is bayt al lafy which literally in Arabic means the house or tribe of levy. As you told me in the past, my maternal haplogroup is native to the region. I don't know my Y-DNA yet but I think it's gonna be mostly native Jewish too.

[Ayetooey]

My father's family came from haifa in the late 1700's which I heard was mostly inhabited by Jews that stayed in the region. My clan's name is bayt al lafy which literally in Arabic means the house or tribe of levy. As you told me in the past, my maternal haplogroup is native to the region. I don't know my Y-DNA yet but I think it's gonna be mostly native Jewish too.

I don't know who you tested with but if you upload your raw data to Morley they should give you a y dna prediction.

https://ytree.morleydna.com/

[whoibe]

One interesting thing I've found out (might not be news to some of you) when looking at the family trees of some of my matches on AncestryDNA is that the large number of British matches I get is probably due to intermarriage between Christian Arabs and British in Mandate Palestine. I didn't know it was that common. Or maybe it's not, my sample isn't exactly representative since I obviously wouldn't have a British match whose ancestors didn't intermarry.


My father's family came from haifa in the late 1700's which I heard was mostly inhabited by Jews that stayed in the region. My clan's name is bayt al lafy which literally in Arabic means the house or tribe of levy. As you told me in the past, my maternal haplogroup is native to the region. I don't know my Y-DNA yet but I think it's gonna be mostly native Jewish too.

Do you know when your father's family converted to Islam?

[Longbowman]

My father's family came from haifa in the late 1700's which I heard was mostly inhabited by Jews that stayed in the region. My clan's name is bayt al lafy which literally in Arabic means the house or tribe of levy. As you told me in the past, my maternal haplogroup is native to the region. I don't know my Y-DNA yet but I think it's gonna be mostly native Jewish too.

Not 'mostly' but there was a community there by the time of the First Aliyah.

[Pine]

Yea I'm on MyHeritage but I only have 120 matches there. More Iberian than South/Central-American there but I think I only share 1 or 2 of them with the Sephardic matches. What I don't understand is how come I score 7.65% south central asian on k36 while the few syrian/lebanese/palestinian results I've seen score nearly 0. On mdlp23b though they do score some south central asian. Do the 2 calculators define south central asia definitely?

My k36:
Amerindian -
Arabian 10.42 Pct
Armenian 5.18 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro -
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 22.08 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese 0.09 Pct
Italian 8.38 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 26.35 Pct
North_African 5.05 Pct
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 1.68 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African 3.38 Pct
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian 0.70 Pct
South_Central_Asian 7.65 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.75 Pct
West_Med 4.31 Pct

I get about the same amount of Indo-Chinese on admix studio with K36. I wonder what the source of southeast asian admix/result is in MENAs.

[whoibe]

I get about the same amount of Indo-Chinese on admix studio with K36. I wonder what the source of southeast asian admix/result is in MENAs.

Under 1% can't be anything other than noise though

[happycow]

My father's family came from haifa in the late 1700's which I heard was mostly inhabited by Jews that stayed in the region. My clan's name is bayt al lafy which literally in Arabic means the house or tribe of levy. As you told me in the past, my maternal haplogroup is native to the region. I don't know my Y-DNA yet but I think it's gonna be mostly native Jewish too.

Maybe you are G like me :)

[whoibe]

Here's what the different admixturestudio calculators say about the triangulated MyHeritage segment (I've removed results under 1%). The consensus seems to be that it's mostly South European. What do you think? Idk which calculator is more reliable in this case or how much sense it makes to only run the calculator on a specific segment.

Mephisto Near East
52.29% Mediterranean
34.97% Egypt
10.82% N_Caucasus
1.91% Balooch-Kalash

Tolan k71
90.56% Sardinia_Italia
9.09% Sub-Sahara
0.35% Basque

Lukasz k47
74.09% West-Med
13.66% Paleo-Balkan
11.25% South-African_HG

Eurogenes K36
34.69% West_Med
16.04% Basque
12.94% Iberian
12.60% Arabian
11.85% West_African
8.02% Italian
2.53% Omotic

Eurasia K20
50.93% EEF
49.06% SHG_WHG

Michal K25
45.35% Mediterranean
24.34% Arabic
10.08% Berberic
11.30% Caucasian
8.24% Khomani-San

MDLP World K33
57.45% Southeuropean
28.65% Easteuropean
13.89% Sunsaharian

[Lemgrant]

Here's what the different admixturestudio calculators say about the triangulated MyHeritage segment (I've removed results under 1%). The Tolan calculators show it as almost entirely South European while the other calculators give different results. What do you think? Idk which calculator is more reliable in this case or how much sense it makes to only run the calculator on a specific segment.

Mephisto Near East
52.29% Mediterranean
34.97% Egypt
10.82% N_Caucasus
1.91% Balooch-Kalash

Tolan k71
90.56% Sardinia_Italia
9.09% Sub-Sahara
0.35% Basque

Lukasz k47
74.09% West-Med
13.66% Paleo-Balkan
11.25% South-African_HG

Eurogenes K36
34.69% West_Med
16.04% Basque
12.94% Iberian
12.60% Arabian
11.85% West_African
8.02% Italian
2.53% Omotic

Eurasia K20
50.93% EEF
49.06% SHG_WHG

which chromosome did you selected? it reads the wrong chromosome, for example if you choose chr.3 -> it reads chr. 2. You need to compare the readings with chromosome painting on gedmatch to see if it is accurate.

[whoibe]

which chromosome did you selected? it reads the wrong chromosome, for example if you choose chr.3 -> it reads chr. 2. You need to compare the readings with chromosome painting on gedmatch to see if it is accurate.

Yea I made sure to select one chromosome ahead of it. Here's a comparison between Admixture Studio results and Chromosome Painting. Definitely way off on some. Am I correct in thinking that Chromosome Painting should be done with calculators that have a high number of components? I believe those should be more accurate, but when comparing them to each other they still give completely different results, both in calculators and in chromosome painting.

MDLP World-22
65.50% Atlantic_Mediterrane
19.70% East-Siberean
8.55% Melanesian
6.25% West-Asian
https://i.imgur.com/tff5792.png

MDLP K-16
56.16% Neolithic
26.53% Mesolithic
13.78% Ancestor
https://i.imgur.com/8du776A.png

Eurogenes K13
50.11% West_Med
31.86% Red_Sea
10.93% Sub-Saharan
https://i.imgur.com/uljbpKT.png

[whoibe]

Looking at a few other calculators, the results suggest that I've inherited this segment from a South European, rather than a Jewish ancestor.

Dodecad K12
https://i.imgur.com/cbAXv6J.png

EUtest V2 K12
https://i.imgur.com/w5eOeB2.png

HarrapaWorld
https://i.imgur.com/lgFoVtg.png

MDLP World
https://i.imgur.com/qvpLU7o.png

But the results do vary greatly depending on which part of the segment I use as a target on Admixture Studio. If I just use the entire segment that I share with a Sephardic match, instead of a smaller one that matches more people, Mephisto gives the highest percentage to Mesopotamia, which is based solely on Iraqi Jews:
33.65% Mesopotamia
29.25% Mediterranean
22.61% Iran
14.48% Egypt

Tolan Recent Ancestors Jews
95.17% Iberia
3.54% Sub-Sahara
1.12% Arabia
0.13% North_Italia

Eurogenes K36
49.07% Iberian
30.26% West_Med
15.26% Armenian
1.99% Eastern_Euro

MDLP K33
48.14% Easteuropean
36.73% Southeuropean
7.96% Neareast
7.10% Sunsaharian

I don't really know what it means to get a component percentage on a specific segment that you otherwise score 0% on when running the test on all chromosomes. I score 0% Iberian on every test, so idk what this means.

[Pine]

Looking at a few other calculators, the results suggest that I've inherited this segment from a South European, rather than a Jewish ancestor.

Dodecad K12
https://i.imgur.com/cbAXv6J.png

EUtest V2 K12
https://i.imgur.com/w5eOeB2.png

HarrapaWorld
https://i.imgur.com/lgFoVtg.png

MDLP World
https://i.imgur.com/qvpLU7o.png

But the results do vary greatly depending on which part of the segment I use as a target on Admixture Studio. If I just use the entire segment that I share with a Sephardic match, instead of a smaller one that matches more people, Mephisto gives the highest percentage to Mesopotamia, which is based solely on Iraqi Jews:
33.65% Mesopotamia
29.25% Mediterranean
22.61% Iran
14.48% Egypt

Tolan Recent Ancestors Jews
95.17% Iberia
3.54% Sub-Sahara
1.12% Arabia
0.13% North_Italia

Eurogenes K36
49.07% Iberian
30.26% West_Med
15.26% Armenian
1.99% Eastern_Euro

MDLP K33
48.14% Easteuropean
36.73% Southeuropean
7.96% Neareast
7.10% Sunsaharian

I don't really know what it means to get a component percentage on a specific segment that you otherwise score 0% on when running the test on all chromosomes. I score 0% Iberian on every test, so idk what this means.

Tolan Recent Ancestors Jews is a terrible calculator. I only get 1% Jewish on it.

[whoibe]

Tolan Recent Ancestors Jews is a terrible calculator. I only get 1% Jewish on it.

Okay that's pretty terrible lol, how much Ashkenazi do the different DNA companies give you?

[Pine]

Okay that's pretty terrible lol, how much Ashkenazi do the different DNA companies give you?

AncestryDNA: 100% European Jewish (defined as Ashkenazi and/or Sephardic, but realistically includes Italkim too)
MyHeritage: 89%
FTDNA: 87%

[talombo]

AncestryDNA: 100% European Jewish (defined as Ashkenazi and/or Sephardic, but realistically includes Italkim too)
MyHeritage: 89%
FTDNA: 87%

I don't think that AncestryDNA's European Jewish category includes Sephardic, this is what a sephardic jew scored:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AncestryDNA/comments/asadyf/was_expecting_95_eu_jewish_what_happened/

[Pine]

I don't think that AncestryDNA's European Jewish category includes Sephardic, this is what a sephardic jew scored:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AncestryDNA/comments/asadyf/was_expecting_95_eu_jewish_what_happened/

It does according to them. Also, he may not be fully European Sephardic or AncestryDNA isn't that great at the Sephardic portion yet. Longbowman gets 99% on it and he is 86% Ashkenazi.

[whoibe]

What's with all the North and East European? Seems pretty random, or is there a connection between Sephardim and North/Eastern Europe I'm unaware of?

Lukasz K47
39.90% Paleo-Balkan
27.10% West-Med
14.77% North-Caucasian
14.00% Omotic
4.22% South-African_HG

MDLP K27
34.99% South-West-European
27.29% North-European-Balti
19.50% Caucasian-Near-Eastern
4.23% Uralic
2.86% Australo-Melanesian
2.27% Arabic

[Pine]

What's with all the North and East European? Seems pretty random, or is there a connection between Sephardim and North/Eastern Europe I'm unaware of?

Lukasz K47
39.90% Paleo-Balkan
27.10% West-Med
14.77% North-Caucasian
14.00% Omotic
4.22% South-African_HG

MDLP K27
34.99% South-West-European
27.29% North-European-Balti
19.50% Caucasian-Near-Eastern
4.23% Uralic
2.86% Australo-Melanesian
2.27% Arabic

You're jumping all over the place and taking shit too literally. "Paleo-Balkan" is component many MENA get. It's hardly "East European" in the modern sense - it's closer to Greek. Whenever you see a component and you wanna extract as much as you're trying to from a calculator: 1. find out who the reference is for that component 2. find out how much of that component other ethnicities get.

[Ylla]

Paleo Balkan is Greek-like not east european. Its on the opposite side of the european genetic spectrum to proper east europeans (like Russians etc.) Its basically mediterranean-Greek.

[mihyar]

When I first got my DNA results a few months ago I couldn't really find an explanation for my Jewish matches but after stumbling into Davidski's G25 I thought I'd give it another shot.

A quick breakdown: I am from the Galilee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee). My Jewish matches are up to 20 cM, are almost exclusively Sephardic and we match each other on the same chromosome segment. One of the matches (Tunisian Jewish, 20 cM, scores 97% Sephardic on MyHeritage) told me she heard that her gg-grandmother (Libyan/Tunisian Jew) originally came from Palestine.

Here are some models randwulf from anthrogenica kindly ran for me in his Gradient-Descent-Algorithm thread:




Here are my coordinates:
[spoiler]
,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AY_scaled,0.061464,0.125926,-0.049026,-0.073644,-0.013541,-0.019243,-0.00376,0.002538,0.007158,0.007289,0.000162,-0.006894,0.011596,0.002202,-0.000407,0.004243,0.00013,-0.00152,-0.002137,-0.005127,-0.000624,0.00136,-0.00456,-0.005061,0.003233

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
AY,0.0054,0.0124,-0.013,-0.0228,-0.0044,-0.0069,-0.0016,0.0011,0.0035,0.004,0.0001,-0.0046,0.0078,0.0016,-0.0003,0.0032,0.0001,-0.0012,-0.0017,-0.0041,-0.0005,0.0011,-0.0037,-0.0042,0.0027

What do you guys think? Any other modern models you would suggest? Thanks in advance.

Near Tiberias, Safed, or Peqi'in?

[whoibe]

You're jumping all over the place and taking shit too literally. "Paleo-Balkan" is component many MENA get. It's hardly "East European" in the modern sense - it's closer to Greek. Whenever you see a component and you wanna extract as much as you're trying to from a calculator: 1. find out who the reference is for that component 2. find out how much of that component other ethnicities get.

Fair enough on the Paleo-Balkan, but what about Easteuropean in MDLP-k33?


Near Tiberias, Safed, or Peqi'in?

Well depends on your definition of near. Like 40 mins to Safed.

[mihyar]

Fair enough on the Paleo-Balkan, but what about Easteuropean in MDLP-k33?



Well depends on your definition of near. Like 40 mins to Safed.

In what direction?

[whoibe]

In what direction?

Safed is north of my town, northeast to be more specific.

[Pine]

Fair enough on the Paleo-Balkan, but what about Easteuropean in MDLP-k33?

The Eastern European score is too high for anyone but an Eastern European. You need to remember that it's a segment. Too much randomness is involved there. Go paint your chromosomes on gedmatch and see how much segments vary, even with ancestry that you don't have.

[whoibe]

The Eastern European score is too high for anyone but an Eastern European. You need to remember that it's a segment. Too much randomness is involved there. Go paint your chromosomes on gedmatch and see how much segments vary, even with ancestry that you don't have.

I think you've misinterpreted my tone. I was making a case for these segment percentages being absolutely random at times. Would be interesting to see how 23andme classifies the different segments I share with different ethnicities though. As it stands though there does seem to be a pattern in these admixture results: most calculators identify that segment as mostly south European in origin. If that were true, would it completely rule out the possibility of a Jewish ancestor passing down that segment? Did Jews in Iberia/Southern Europe not have any south european dna?

[Pine]

I think you've misinterpreted my tone. I was making a case for these segment percentages being absolutely random at times. Would be interesting to see how 23andme classifies the different segments I share with different ethnicities though. As it stands though there does seem to be a pattern in these admixture results: most calculators identify that segment as mostly south European in origin. If that were true, would it completely rule out the possibility of a Jewish ancestor passing down that segment? Did Jews in Iberia/Southern Europe not have any south european dna?

All European Jews were/are a mix of southern Europe and the Levant. The remaining admix is around 10%.

[whoibe]

I've come across a triangulated segment with just 4 matches, all Ashkenazi with 25+ on the Jtest. One of them does not match me in the one-to-one comparison though. All 7.x cM. Testing the segment on admixturestudio:

Mehpisto Near East
66.46% Mesopotamia
14.90% E_Africa
10.23% N_Arabia
6.88% Egypt
1.52% Bantu

Tolan K71
44.28% Levant
33.01% North_Africa
22.47% Sardinia_Italia

Dodecad K12
59.53% Caucasus
26.05% Northwest_African
10.09% Gedrosia
4.15% North_European

Eurogenes K13
52.21% East_Med
27.20% West_Med
5.16% West_Asian
8.77% Northeast_African
6.66% Red_Sea

Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad have same highest percentage in Chromosome Painting. Interesting stuff considering that the other Ashkenazi matches I've come across were all in triangulated groups with dozens of Europeans (English/German/etc..).


almost all my Jewish matches on Gedmatch and MyHeritage are on chromosomes 8,1, and 6. I tested my mother with 23andme and turns out those segments of chromosomes are reserved by Ashkenazi Jews. https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?286764-My-mother-s-results

this is how it looks on Gedmatch with Eurogenes K13 (from 88M to 103M)
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/YTJqCL5.png[IMG]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5HCMJAi.png[IMG]

It's on chromosome 6 btw lol

[whoibe]

So I got my mtDNA results and I'm T2c1e , what do you guys think?

I can't really find anything on it. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/T2?iframe=mtmap shows US, Poland, Germany and Portugal.