Haplogroups of Moroccan Jews- our project results

[Sp_loa]

A project of user Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda and I.
We collected around 85 samples (from 23andme matches) of full Moroccan Jews (4 grandparents are Moroccan borned Jews). This is one of the largest reference group for haplogroup survey of Moroccan Jews so far.

*When it comes to Y-DNA we counted people with the same surname and haplogroup as only 1 person, to make our results more reliable.*


And.... The results:


YDNA-

https://scontent.ftlv5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/57154951_656805994755300_8704506710091366400_n.png ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.ftlv5-1.fna&oh=d1c08a280261f1062cda2c7efcb91362&oe=5D73ADFE

The most prevalent haplogroup was haplogroup J2 at around 20%. Notice that some Moroccan Jews belong to a European (Greek) subclades of haplogroup J2 such as J-L283 (many belong to that subclade) so it's not entirely of levantine origin. Some subclades of J2 were obviously of Levantine-Judean Origin.
Other levantine related haplogroups were Q-M342 (15%), J1 (6%), T-M70 (some subclades are west Mediterranean so I can't count entire 7% as levantine), E-V22 (5%), L-M342 (3%), and R2a (1%).

We concluded that about 50% of Moroccan Jews paternal lines trace back to the levant.

The second most Prevalent haplogroup was haplogroup R-M269 (W. Euro subclades as R-DF27, R-U106, R-U152 , at 18%) which is again of Western European Origin. Other European haplogroups are some subclades of J2 as mentioned above, G-Z3428 (10%) which is also of Iberian origin, E-V13 (3%) and I2a (usually I-Y7219, 1%) probably from germanic tribes that settled in Iberia (Suevi, visigoths...).

We concluded that around 35% of Moroccan Jews paternal lines are of Western and Southern European origin


When it comes to Berber haplogroups- E-L19 (10%), some subclades of T-M70 and Haplogroup E-V65 (1%).

We concluded that about 15% of Moroccan Jews paternal lines are of Berber origin.




Mtdna:

https://scontent.ftlv5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/57321548_457889651618828_8475603099451392000_n.png ?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.ftlv5-1.fna&oh=499d108a49c6ce1f7c50b4a2f2b70934&oe=5D3A87CD

*Again we avoided counting numerous times members of the same family.*

The most prevalent haplogroup was H1 (36%), both subclades (H1e and H1o) are of European origin, (though H1 is also common in North Africa and not enough studies have been done on gentile Moroccans to determine whether they have those haplogroups as well). H4a1a (16%) is the second most prevalent haplogroup and it's mostly found in Europe but some subclades can be of levantine origin. Haplogroup HV0 (9%) is found among Iberians and Berbers reflecting West Mediterranean ancestry.
Haplogroup K1a (8%) subclades were K1a3a1a (Western Europe), K1a2a (NW Europe) and k1c2 (Western Europe and the maghreb).

I4a1a and I5 (6%) both reflect Western European lines. Haplogroup J1C (J1C1 and J1c3) reflects West Mediterranean lines (berber and Basque depends on the specific subclade). Haplogroup HV1a (4%) reflects Middle Eastern lines while HV1c (4%) probably reflects Italian maternal lines.
Haplogroup U6a (3%) reflects West Mediterranean origins (Berber and Iberian), while Haplogroup X2b (3%) probably reflects Levantine maternal lines
Haplogroup H2 (2%) and H3 (2%) are both of European origin but H3 can be from Berber female ancestors as well.
Haplogroup M1a1 (1%) probably came with Judean mothers while haplogroup L2a1 (1%) is of SSA West African origin and came from Berbers.

Our conclusion is that the vast majority of Moroccan Jews maternal lines are European (mainly Iberia and Italy), few are Berber and even fewer are of levantine-Judean origin. That is the opposite to the paternal lines.

[Kamal900]

It's not really surprising in my opinion considering that the ancient Israelites that migrated out of the Levant were mostly male and had intermarried with the local Europeans and Berbers. My mtDNA is U3 which is Israelite according to Longbowman. I don't know my Y-DNA yet, but I think it's gonna be related to the Jewish levites or something. Again, cool results as always.

[Sp_loa]

It's not really surprising in my opinion considering that the ancient Israelites that migrated out of the Levant were mostly male and had intermarried with the local Europeans and Berbers. My mtDNA is U3 which is Israelite according to Longbowman. I don't know my Y-DNA yet, but I think it's gonna be related to the Jewish levites or something. Again, cool results as always.

They were definitely mostly males. it is indeed well known.
Seems like Judezied (probably) Iberian and Berber males were also part of forming these communities.

[Kamal900]

They were definitely mostly males. it is indeed well known.
Seems like Judezied (probably) Iberian and Berber males were also part of forming these communities.

I guess maybe conversion to Judaism was a lot easier than today, I think.

[Sp_loa]

I guess maybe conversion to Judaism was a lot easier than today, I think.

It was.
The Jewish population of ancient Roman empire around the time of Christ was about 10%

[talombo]

Thanks, that was very interesting.
My Moroccan mom is X2d2, not even in the list.

[Sp_loa]

Thanks, that was very interesting.
My Moroccan mom is X2d2, not even in the list.

I guess it's not very common among Moroccan Jews. Maybe around 1% so it might not be in our reference group.
X2d2 is found in Italy today from what I've seen, but might be also levantine I'm not sure.

[Johannes Wilhelm]

When the Jews left, they became an impure race.

[Sp_loa]

When the Jews left, they became an impure race.

I don't like the term race as it's not scientifical, but it's true.

Jews have significant local ancestry from where they lived in. That's why different groups of Jews look different from each other.

[Pine]

What were the different J2 lines?

[Sp_loa]

What were the different J2 lines?

J-M92
J-L26
J-M319
J-L283
J-M241
J-M172
J-CTS5368
J-M67
J-L24

Some are levantine some not

[Pine]

J-M92
J-L26
J-M319
J-L283
J-M241
J-M172
J-CTS5368
J-M67
J-L24

Some are levantine some not

Which ones are Levantine?

[Adam Janossy]

Hey, awesome work! :thumb001:

J-L283 is Illyrian marker peaking in Albanians (was found in bronze age Dalmatia and Armenia), interesting how it made it's way to Morocco :)

[Sp_loa]

Hey, awesome work! :thumb001:

J-L283 is Illyrian marker peaking in Albanians (was found in bronze age Dalmatia and Armenia), interesting how it made it's way to Morocco :)

Don’t forget we are talking about Jews. I think it made it’s way to the levant with Hellenistic people (?) that mixed with local Judean population, and then to Morocco when the Jews arrived to morocco.

**Or** Jews have significant ancestry from Italy, mainly in the South but sometimes in Central-North too. Some have roots in regions like Puglia that had Illyrian people in it (me myself have roots in Bari if I’m not mistaken), so it can be from there.

[Nassbean]

Very interesting thank you ! But wasn't H1 already present in a high proportion in guanches ?

[Sp_loa]

Very interesting thank you ! But wasn't H1 already present in a high proportion in guanches ?

It depends on the subclade. Probably H1 is from both European and Berber origins.

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

Very interesting thank you ! But wasn't H1 already present in a high proportion in guanches ?

Yes! Among Guanches and among modern NW Africans !

[Nassbean]

Yes! Among Guanches and among modern NW Africans !

alright thank you

[Leto]

I'm surprised by the share of non-Levantine Y haplogroups.

[Sp_loa]

I'm surprised by the share of non-Levantine Y haplogroups.

Levantine YDNA is about 50% of Moroccan Jews paternal lines (even less). Judaized Iberians, Berbers and Italic males have their genetic signature.
Non-Ashkenazi Jewish populations are more assimilated I guess.

[Pine]

Which ones are Levantine?

Can you answer this?

[Pine]

I'm surprised by the share of non-Levantine Y haplogroups.

That's because he assumed that haplogroups which are more common outside the Levant are in fact post-exile. Unless a lot of the work wasn't mentioned in the OP, this is utterly sloppy and such a method will undercount the Levantine haplos.

[Sp_loa]

That's because he assumed that haplogroups which are more common outside the Levant are in fact post-exile. Unless a lot of the work wasn't mentioned in the OP, this is utterly sloppy and such a method will undercount the Levantine haplos.

G-Z3428 and R1b-M269 (already 30%) just don't exist in the Levant. Neither I2a (although 1% but Germanic). E-V13 and some subclades of J2 (like the Illyrian one) are very uncommon in the levant.
I don't know why you find it so hard to believe Moroccan Jew have some Iberian/Italic YDNA. You won't find any larger reference group for haplogroup study for Moroccan Jews.
If anything my grandmother just got new full Moroccan Jew match.. and guess what another R-P311 (R1b, celtic subclade). And we didn't use the same surname twice.

[Sp_loa]

Can you answer this?

J-M92 (European, South Italian and Greek)
J-L26 (not specific enough, General East Med- Levant and Greece)
J-M319 (Italy and Greece and the Levant)
J-L283 (Illyrians, South East Europe, peaks in Albanians )
J-M241(same as J-L283)
J-M172 (not specific, Levant and Europe)
J-CTS5368 (not spesific)
J-M67 (levant)
J-L24 (Not specific again, pan Mediterranean)

If anything, Because of uncertainty of some subclades we considered most J2 as levantine as you can see. Europe 35% is without considering J2 as European. G-Z3428 and R1b alone are about 30%....
So please don't say we "undercount the Levantine haplos" because people actually worked to give you these percentages!

[Pine]

G-Z3428 and R1b-M269 (already 30%) just don't exist in the Levant. Neither I2a (although 1% but Germanic). E-V13 and some subclades of J2 (like the Illyrian one) are very uncommon in the levant.
I don't know why you find it so hard to believe Moroccan Jew have some Iberian/Italic YDNA. You won't find any larger reference group for haplogroup study for Moroccan Jews.
If anything my grandmother just got new full Moroccan Jew match.. and guess what another R-P311 (R1b, celtic subclade). And we didn't use the same surname twice.

You say G-Z3428 is Iberian in the OP. Yet, it's not even rare amongst Ashkenazim. I also found a Lebanese with it. As for R1b-M269, 7% of Lebanese have it and so do 10% of Iraqis. The following reasoning "E-V13 and some subclades of J2 (like the Illyrian one) are very uncommon in the levant." is what lead to thinking Ashkenazi R1a was European/Khazar. As for studies on Moroccan Jews, they state that the YDNA profile is similar to that of Ashkenazim. I also played with the NMonte calculator on Moroccan Jews and no matter what Italian/Spanish group I chose, I couldn't get the Levantine below 44%. I'll grant you that I2a is probably European.

[Pine]

J-M92 (European, South Italian and Greek)
J-L26 (not specific enough, General East Med- Levant and Greece)
J-M319 (Italy and Greece and the Levant)
J-L283 (Illyrians, South East Europe, peaks in Albanians )
J-M241(same as J-L283)
J-M172 (not specific, Levant and Europe)
J-CTS5368 (not spesific)
J-M67 (levant)
J-L24 (Not specific again, pan Mediterranean)

If anything, Because of uncertainty of some subclades we considered most J2 as levantine as you can see. Europe 35% is without considering J2 as European. G-Z3428 and R1b alone are about 30%....
So please don't say we "undercount the Levantine haplos" because people actually worked to give you these percentages!

I just looked up the first one: J-M92 and it exists in the Middle East. It's a waste of my time to look up the rest until you show a semblance of rigor. This is sloppy and/or politically motivated.

[Sp_loa]

I just looked up the first one: J-M92 and it exists in the Middle East. It's a waste of my time to look up the rest until you show a semblance of rigor. This is sloppy and/or politically motivated.

If anything you are politically motivated to prove all Jewish paternal line are from the levant and do not accept that some are from Europe. We counted all J2 as Levantine because of the uncertainty of the clades so it doesn't matter if you check or not. Ashkenazim and lebanese are G-Z6028 which is not the same as being G-Z3428* which is of neolithic Iberian origin (that's why we wrote (Iberian) in the chart.
Show me that 10% of Iraqis are R-DF27, R-U152, R-P311, R-L23, R-L51, R-DF98.... these are the subclades we got....
There is a reason why MJ get SW/W European subclades of R1b.
There are also supporting historical evidences for Jews intermarriage with Christians Iberians (including males).......

Stop spamming my thread, thank you.

[Sp_loa]

http://photos.geni.com/p13/b8/15/bb/09/5344483ea26a1574/haplogroup-r1b-df27_original.jpg

Most common subclade of R1b among Moroccan Jews.

[Pine]

If anything you are politically motivated to prove all Jewish paternal line are from the levant and do not accept that some are from Europe. We counted all J2 as Levantine because of the uncertainty of the clades so it doesn't matter if you check or not. Ashkenazim and lebanese are G-Z6028 which is not the same as being G-Z3428* which is of neolithic Iberian origin (that's why we wrote (Iberian) in the chart.
Show me that 10% of Iraqis are R-DF27, R-U152, R-P311, R-L23, R-L51, R-DF98.... these are the subclades we got....
There is a reason why MJ get SW/W European subclades of R1b.
There are also supporting historical evidences for Jews intermarriage with Christians Iberians (including males).......

Stop spamming my thread, thank you.

Why has it taken so long for you to show the subclades? Include them in the OP with the frequency. This is also the first time you call it G-Z3428*.

[Pine]

http://photos.geni.com/p13/b8/15/bb/09/5344483ea26a1574/haplogroup-r1b-df27_original.jpg

Most common subclade of R1b among Moroccan Jews.

Source?

[Iẓeḍwan n Nanna-Tuda]

You say G-Z3428 is Iberian in the OP. Yet, it's not even rare amongst Ashkenazim. I also found a Lebanese with it. As for R1b-M269, 7% of Lebanese have it and so do 10% of Iraqis. The following reasoning "E-V13 and some subclades of J2 (like the Illyrian one) are very uncommon in the levant." is what lead to thinking Ashkenazi R1a was European/Khazar. As for studies on Moroccan Jews, they state that the YDNA profile is similar to that of Ashkenazim. I also played with the NMonte calculator on Moroccan Jews and no matter what Italian/Spanish group I chose, I couldn't get the Levantine below 44%. I'll grant you that I2a is probably European.


G-Z3428 : You found 1 (only 1) Lebanese BUT there are hundreds of goyim from NW Africa (10 people as far as I know), Iberia, Italy (and Sardinia), Germany, Austria, Switzerland, England and Netherlands who carry it too. It's much more common in SW Europe and NW Africa than anywhere else. (Cf. some FTDNA's projects such as the G-CTS342's one). Indeed, you could find plenty of Ashkenazim, some Sephardi but 0 Mizrahi ! Curious, isn't it ? 0 Egyptian, 0 Arabian (although they take plenty of tests), 0 Iraki, hardly 1 or 2 people from the most Mediterranean part of the Middle East : the Levant (Crusaders?). You would even have very hard time to find it in SW Europe (Greece, Albania...) !
G-Z3428 has been found in SW Sicily (Bronze Age) ! Its mother clade, G-Z1903, has been found 4 times in SW European's Chalcolithic : in the Iberian (1) and Sicilian Chalcolithic (2) (in Lucena, Southern Spain more precisely and in SW Sicily)... Not to talk about its presence in the Bulgarian and Hungarian Neolithic and Chalcolithic (3)... This clade is European and has to be considered as such. It occurs among European Jews only!
Yes, indeed G-Z3428 is mainly Spanish and Italian. It might reflect Iberian and Italian conversions to Judaism !

G-Z6028 (its great-granddaughter's clade :D) has had a strong founder effecter among Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1200 years!) although it's probably Iberian/West Med, yes, but did you know that some Ashkenazi had Sephardi ancestry ? It would explain :
1/ why is E-L19 (especially E-M81) found among them (4) ?
2/ why is the NA mutation of Parkinson commong among them (5)?
3/ why they carry G-Z3428
4/why they carry R-DF27 (which is 100% Iberian)
5/ partially why more than 81% of Ashkenazim mtDNAs are European (and trace back to Western Europe) (6)

Why didn't you mention that the Lebanese G-Z6028 is closer to the Mende from Sierra Leone than he's to EUROPEAN Jews ? The link between Lebanon and the Sierra Leone might be NW Africa, which means that G-Z6028 is everything but Levantine!

R-M269 :It's indeed present in the Levant (although very rare). Its frequency among Moroccan Jews is substantially higher than in the Levant (18% is everything but low) and they mainly carry SW European such as R-U106 or R-DF27 (which for sure aren't Levantine). Don't forget that the Levant got some European admixture (Romans, crusaders, corsairs)... This European admixture is very likely stronger than it used to be in the Levant prior to the Jewish diaspora :thumb001:

R-DF27 is Iberian. How would you explain that one of its subclade is exclusively found among Sephardim and Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1150 years!) ? https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V3476/
Same founder effect as for G-Z6028 !

So, yes, Moroccan Jews are mainly Levantine from their paternal side (something like 55-60%, not more though) but they have a strong West European and NW African contribution!


(1) The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula reconstructed
(2) The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean
(3) Eupedia
(4) https://i.imgur.com/KlEM3jO.png
https://i.imgur.com/MmpRhkN.png
https://i.imgur.com/3q4JR3U.png
(5) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181335
(6) https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

[ModernMaskil]

Great thread. Thank you.

[Pine]

G-Z3428 : You found 1 (only 1) Lebanese BUT there are hundreds of goyim from NW Africa (10 people as far as I know), Iberia, Italy (and Sardinia), Germany, Austria, Switzerland, England and Netherlands who carry it too. It's much more common in SW Europe and NW Africa than anywhere else. (Cf. some FTDNA's projects such as the G-CTS342's one). Indeed, you could find plenty of Ashkenazim, some Sephardi but 0 Mizrahi ! Curious, isn't it ? 0 Egyptian, 0 Arabian (although they take plenty of tests), 0 Iraki, hardly 1 or 2 people from the most Mediterranean part of the Middle East : the Levant (Crusaders?). You would even have very hard time to find it in SW Europe (Greece, Albania...) !
G-Z3428 has been found in SW Sicily (Bronze Age) ! Its mother clade, G-Z1903, has been found 4 times in SW European's Chalcolithic : in the Iberian (1) and Sicilian Chalcolithic (2) (in Lucena, Southern Spain more precisely and in SW Sicily)... Not to talk about its presence in the Bulgarian and Hungarian Neolithic and Chalcolithic (3)... This clade is European and has to be considered as such. It occurs among European Jews only!
Yes, indeed G-Z3428 is mainly Spanish and Italian. It might reflect Iberian and Italian conversions to Judaism !

G-Z6028 (its great-granddaughter's clade :D) has had a strong founder effecter among Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1200 years!) although it's probably Iberian/West Med, yes, but did you know that some Ashkenazi had Sephardi ancestry ? It would explain :
1/ why is E-L19 (especially E-M81) found among them (4) ?
2/ why is the NA mutation of Parkinson commong among them (5)?
3/ why they carry G-Z3428
4/why they carry R-DF27 (which is 100% Iberian)
5/ partially why more than 81% of Ashkenazim mtDNAs are European (and trace back to Western Europe) (6)

Why didn't you mention that the Lebanese G-Z6028 is closer to the Mende from Sierra Leone than he's to EUROPEAN Jews ? The link between Lebanon and the Sierra Leone might be NW Africa, which means that G-Z6028 is everything but Levantine!

R-M269 :It's indeed present in the Levant (although very rare). Its frequency among Moroccan Jews is substantially higher than in the Levant (18% is everything but low) and they mainly carry SW European such as R-U106 or R-DF27 (which for sure aren't Levantine). Don't forget that the Levant got some European admixture (Romans, crusaders, corsairs)... This European admixture is very likely stronger than it used to be in the Levant prior to the Jewish diaspora :thumb001:

R-DF27 is Iberian. How would you explain that one of its subclade is exclusively found among Sephardim and Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1150 years!) ? https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V3476/
Same founder effect as for G-Z6028 !

So, yes, Moroccan Jews are mainly Levantine from their paternal side (something like 55-60%, not more though) but they have a strong West European and NW African contribution!


(1) The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula reconstructed
(2) The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean
(3) Eupedia
(4) https://i.imgur.com/KlEM3jO.png
https://i.imgur.com/MmpRhkN.png
https://i.imgur.com/3q4JR3U.png
(5) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181335
(6) https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

I appreciate your reply. Some things I don't understand about haplos: the haplo stated in your yfull link isn't R-DF27. Is it the same haplo in another format? Also, G-Z3428 exists in the Caucus and one of the new Israelite samples released by Reich is Caucus-admixed. As for the Lebanese sample I found, I'm not sure where it maps and if we're talking about the same one.

As for the stuff I do understand, these are the main issues with your reply:

1. You can't compare frequencies of a diaspora population that has likely shared in the Ashkenazi bottleneck to regular populations. This reasoning is what led everyone to think that Ashkenazi R1a is European.

2. You raise a good question of why these haplos are found in Ashkenazim and Sephardim, but not in Mizrachim. The answer could be attributed to the following combination of factors:
- We simply don't have the full data on Mizrachi YDNA. And I had trouble finding much data on it.
- The former is referred to as the Western(Roman) cluster and the latter to the Eastern (Babylonian) cluster, with the exception of Yemenite Jews, whom belong to their own cluster. Studies indicate that these clusters separated a very long time ago, leaving enough time for these haplos to enter the Western cluster in the Levant. And the selection amongst those exiled to Babylon was likely not uniform, for which the haplos may be a proxy for.

3. I should've mentioned this earlier, but there is a potentially massive issue with your sample selection. Granted, it's unavoidable - you can't see the results of those who don't match SpLoa/his grandmother. The issue is that cousins share ancestry. Because cousins share ancestry, their autosomal composition should on average differ from that of a random sample. Since some autosomal data does come from one's YDNA and MtDNA lines, those should then also differ on average from that of a random sample. I understand that you guys did your best to avoid this problem by only counting one individual per surname, however, if you look at Jewish geneology, this is hardly a sufficient method.

4. You, appropriately, asked me many questions. You asked about the Lebanese sample. You asked about the Roman/Babylonian discrepancy. You then asked about the Sephardi-Ashkenazi YDNA sharing, for which I agree - there is some Sephardi ancestry amongst some or maybe even all Ashkenazim. I can't deny this from seeing my own autosomal results. However, Ashkenazi YDNA has been studied in detail and has been concluded to be almost entirely Middle Eastern. Are the Ashkenazi European-YDNA lines simply over represented amongst Sephardim? Here is a site that attempted a similar method to yours, but didn't go through cousin matches: https://jewishdna.net/FAQ.html. They find that " in the Sephardic group we find 6% from Europe and 6% from Iberia. ".

I now want to ask you a question. Why do your conclusions disagree with the following(some of which may not be indepenent): 1. Studies on Morrocan Jews, some of which directly make statements about their YDNA composition. The autosomal esitmates that derive thereof (usually, majority Levantine ancestry). Hell, not just Sephardic, but "Moroccan Jews" are my first match on some calculators. G25 Nmonte calculations: I couldn't get the Levantine below 44%. I used Lebanese Christians as a proxy for the Levant and Mozabite for the Berber. I varied the Spanish and Italian from north to south, all the way to Sicily.

Thanks for your reply.

[mihyar]

Do we have a range of Moroccan Jewish GEDmatch results? This thread has me wishing that GEDmatch population averages reported ranges + standard deviations for each component, because the Moroccan Jewish average gives no hint of this diversity.

[Pine]

Do we have a range of Moroccan Jewish GEDmatch results? This thread has me wishing that GEDmatch population averages reported ranges + standard deviations for each component, because the Moroccan Jewish average gives no hint of this diversity.

Someone on Athrogenica might have that.

[Dick]

why no I1

[XYZ.2018]

Any R1a? :)

[Pine]

G-Z3428 : You found 1 (only 1) Lebanese BUT there are hundreds of goyim from NW Africa (10 people as far as I know), Iberia, Italy (and Sardinia), Germany, Austria, Switzerland, England and Netherlands who carry it too. It's much more common in SW Europe and NW Africa than anywhere else. (Cf. some FTDNA's projects such as the G-CTS342's one). Indeed, you could find plenty of Ashkenazim, some Sephardi but 0 Mizrahi ! Curious, isn't it ? 0 Egyptian, 0 Arabian (although they take plenty of tests), 0 Iraki, hardly 1 or 2 people from the most Mediterranean part of the Middle East : the Levant (Crusaders?). You would even have very hard time to find it in SW Europe (Greece, Albania...) !
G-Z3428 has been found in SW Sicily (Bronze Age) ! Its mother clade, G-Z1903, has been found 4 times in SW European's Chalcolithic : in the Iberian (1) and Sicilian Chalcolithic (2) (in Lucena, Southern Spain more precisely and in SW Sicily)... Not to talk about its presence in the Bulgarian and Hungarian Neolithic and Chalcolithic (3)... This clade is European and has to be considered as such. It occurs among European Jews only!
Yes, indeed G-Z3428 is mainly Spanish and Italian. It might reflect Iberian and Italian conversions to Judaism !

G-Z6028 (its great-granddaughter's clade :D) has had a strong founder effecter among Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1200 years!) although it's probably Iberian/West Med, yes, but did you know that some Ashkenazi had Sephardi ancestry ? It would explain :
1/ why is E-L19 (especially E-M81) found among them (4) ?
2/ why is the NA mutation of Parkinson commong among them (5)?
3/ why they carry G-Z3428
4/why they carry R-DF27 (which is 100% Iberian)
5/ partially why more than 81% of Ashkenazim mtDNAs are European (and trace back to Western Europe) (6)

Why didn't you mention that the Lebanese G-Z6028 is closer to the Mende from Sierra Leone than he's to EUROPEAN Jews ? The link between Lebanon and the Sierra Leone might be NW Africa, which means that G-Z6028 is everything but Levantine!

R-M269 :It's indeed present in the Levant (although very rare). Its frequency among Moroccan Jews is substantially higher than in the Levant (18% is everything but low) and they mainly carry SW European such as R-U106 or R-DF27 (which for sure aren't Levantine). Don't forget that the Levant got some European admixture (Romans, crusaders, corsairs)... This European admixture is very likely stronger than it used to be in the Levant prior to the Jewish diaspora :thumb001:

R-DF27 is Iberian. How would you explain that one of its subclade is exclusively found among Sephardim and Ashkenazim (TMRCA : 1150 years!) ? https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V3476/
Same founder effect as for G-Z6028 !

So, yes, Moroccan Jews are mainly Levantine from their paternal side (something like 55-60%, not more though) but they have a strong West European and NW African contribution!


(1) The genomic history of the Iberian Peninsula reconstructed
(2) The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean
(3) Eupedia
(4) https://i.imgur.com/KlEM3jO.png
https://i.imgur.com/MmpRhkN.png
https://i.imgur.com/3q4JR3U.png
(5) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181335
(6) https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543

I thought I'd return to this, now that I understand this material better. In all the clades you mention , but R-DF27, the Jews are closest to Levantine members.

R-M269 is a big and old clade, some of the Jewish subclades of it are clearly Judean; others are clearly European; some might be Mesopotamian in origin. Counting all of it as non-Judean is simply dishonest, as it doesn't even approximate the truth. However, here is an example of an Ashkenazi subclade within it and its closest goy is Lebanese:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L943/

The exact same thing is true for G-Z6028:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Z6028/

And for the main Ashkenazi subclade of E-M81:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A5604/

As for not finding Mizrachim in a given clade - this is typical of almost every single Western Jewish clade, no matter how Levantine it is. The reasons for this are: early separation, lack of Mizrachi samples, and the possibility that some clades left/ remained entirely (in Israel).

However, I agree: most of R-DF27 among Jews is European in origin. The numbers in your study don't align with other statistics. Where is all the Middle Eastern R1b?

[mihyar]

Hey—were there any subclades of G besides G-Z3428?