"Proto-Iranians were not Northern Europeans"

[Token]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

[Tigranes]

Iranians are true Aryans.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Should've compared fits with Yamnaya and groups like Botai so people can't say "this is just pseudo admixture from earlier groups"(spoiler: Steppe_MLBA is the best fit), but yeah. Corded Ware/Aryans still weren't Nordic-like though.

[Token]

Should've compared fits with Yamnaya and groups like Botai so people can't say "this is just pseudo admixture from earlier groups"(spoiler: Steppe_MLBA is the best fit), but yeah. Corded Ware/Aryans still weren't Nordic-like though.
I didn't even tried but i know Botai will return extremely bad fits so not even worth my time. Weren't Nordic-like in what sense? Genetically, you'd still need some EEF and WHG to get to modern-day Northern Europeans but they are still quite close, and this is why you can proxy the Indo-European ancestry in Asians using Norwegians or similars with reasonable fits.

[Blondie]

Great post +1

[XenophobicPrussian]

I didn't even tried but i know Botai will return extremely bad fits so not even worth my time. Weren't Nordic-like in what sense? Genetically, you'd still need some EEF and WHG to get to modern-day Northern Europeans but they are still quite close, and this is why you can proxy the Indo-European ancestry in Asians using Norwegians or similars with reasonable fits.
Depends what you mean similar. In a European sense they were still closest to eastern Europeans like Ukrainians or SW Russians. I don't see any reason to use Scandinavians as a proxy when there's literally closer populations. It's kind of irrelevant on a global or even West Eurasian scale, but people here look at things through a European perspective, and I'm pretty sure most people think Norwegians and Ukrainians are pretty different from eachother. I assume you consider all populations north of the Alps to be extremely similar to eachother based on one of your posts, and I guess that isn't unreasonable, but most people don't share that opinion. You don't start getting Nordic or NW Euro like until you get to Bell Beaker, Urnfield, Nordic_BA, and Unetice to a lesser extent.

I'm aware some of the modern admixture calcs put the closest match on Corded Ware related populations with Scandinavians, but these matches are still far and usually it's intermediary populations(between west and east) like Finns/Estonians, not Scandinavians that get top match in GEDMatch Oracle or whatever. CW or Aryans didn't have specific NW Euro drift or Balto-Slavic drift, but had ancestral population ratios, specifically ANE % closer to NE Slavs than Nordics, and cluster with them on PCA plots.

[Dorian]

SHAMBOLIC NONSENSE RUBBISH!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiau25stTyQ

[Token]

Depends what you mean similar. In a European sense they were still closest to eastern Europeans like Ukrainians or SW Russians. I don't see any reason to use Scandinavians as a proxy when there's literally closer populations. It's kind of irrelevant on a global or even West Eurasian scale, but people here look at things through a European perspective, and I'm pretty sure most people think Norwegians and Ukrainians are pretty different from eachother. I assume you consider all populations north of the Alps to be extremely similar to eachother based on one of your posts, and I guess that isn't unreasonable, but most people don't share that opinion. You don't start getting Nordic or NW Euro like until you get to Bell Beaker, Urnfield, Nordic_BA, and Unetice to a lesser extent.

I'm aware some of the modern admixture calcs put the closest match on Corded Ware related populations with Scandinavians, but these matches are still far and usually it's intermediary populations(between west and east) like Finns/Estonians, not Scandinavians that get top match in GEDMatch Oracle or whatever. CW or Aryans didn't have specific NW Euro drift or Balto-Slavic drift, but had ancestral population ratios, specifically ANE % closer to NE Slavs than Nordics, and cluster with them on PCA plots.

The problem with using Ukrainians or Lithuanians is that Balto-Slavs underwent some heavy genetic drift at some time during the Bronze Age that ends up skewing some of the dimensions of these calculators, which is the reason why the fit is unusually high when you try to model Balto-Slavs with ancient (pre-Balto-Slavic drift) pops, or use then as a proxy to model other populations. This would work with formal tests , which largely ignores recent drift, but not with G25 or GEDmatch calculators. Scandinavians remains largely similar to LNBA Europeans in all dimensions in this context, so using Norwegians is just a form to keep the fits low and countour recent drift.

In formal admixture tests, Nordics and NE Slavs are hardly distinguishable in terms of steppe admixture. Balts are less basal/more HG which will get them marginally closer (Basal is distal in this context) to steppe populations, which obviously doesn't means that they got more steppe ancestry.

[Imperator Biff]

Rafidhas and pajeets on suicide watch.

[MS85]

Nice, not nice, very GREAT! I do see a lot BMAC DNA in South Central Asia.


BMAC is a true and real ARYAN marker of Central Asia.


Russian_Steppe_MLBA is NOT Aryan at all. It is MONGOLOID!

[MS85]

You guys don't even understand what proto-Iranic and proto-Vedic mean.

[MS85]

Great post +1
There is much more West Asian BMAC component in Central Asia.


Who is saying that 'Russian_Steppe_MLBA' is an Aryan component, lol. It is not Aryan at all. It is actually a MONGOLOID admixture.

[Token]

There is much more West Asian BMAC component in Central Asia.


Who is saying that 'Russian_Steppe_MLBA' is an Aryan component, lol. It is not Aryan at all. It is actually a MONGOLOID admixture.
"Mongoloid component"

Russian_Steppe_MLBA
[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Norwegian Swedish Icelandic Irish
5.958175 5.975086 6.033965 6.419914
German Ukrainian Estonian Russian_Smolensk
7.212791 7.670142 7.854778 8.085659

[MS85]

"Mongoloid component"

Russian_Steppe_MLBA
[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Norwegian Swedish Icelandic Irish
5.958175 5.975086 6.033965 6.419914
German Ukrainian Estonian Russian_Smolensk
7.212791 7.670142 7.854778 8.085659
Yeah, very much MONGOLOID. It has something to do with the EHG. And EHG is partly MONGOLOID, partly from the Iranian Plateau etc.

[MS85]

'EHG' = West Siberian HG related = Mongoloid


https://i.postimg.cc/HxpSL2wr/yamna-steppe-emba-mlba-cloud.png
https://i.postimg.cc/xChtP2rz/ace.jpg



And who is saying that 'Russian_Steppe_MLBA' is Aryan at the first place? It could come with the Mongols, or Mongoloid Scythians/Turkic people or Massagetae that invaded India.


'Russian_Steppe_MLBA' is hardcore MONGOLOID, has absolutely nothing to do with the Aryans, lol.


Real ARYANS (East Iranians) in Central Asia had "BMAC" in them.

[MS85]

You guys don't even understand the meaning of Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan (Vedic) and Aryan (Iranic). Seems that you guys also never heard of Graeco-Aryan connection, ergative construction in proto-Indo-Iranian.

Also, never heard of the Aryan Sumerians, Aryan Mitanni/Kassites, Aryan Mitanni princess Nefertiti who became a queen of Egypt and brought Solar deity to Egypt, Aryan Vejah, Gathas etc.


What a JOKE!

[Token]

You guys don't even understand the meaning of Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan (Vedic) and Aryan (Iranic). Seems that you guys also never heard of Graeco-Aryan connection, ergative construction in proto-Indo-Iranian.

Also, never heard of the Aryan Sumerians, Aryan Mitanni/Kassites, Aryan Mitanni princess Nefertiti who became a queen of Egypt and brought Solar deity to Egypt, Aryan Vejah, Gathas etc.


What a JOKE!

LMAO, Aryans Sumerians made me laugh out loud. You are the Iranic version of Kipchak Hakan, i see.

[Crimson Winds]

LMAO, Aryans Sumerians made me laugh out loud. You are the Iranic version of Kipchak Hakan, i see.

Kipchak Hakan is not a potential suicide attacker.

[MS85]

LMAO, Aryans Sumerians made me laugh out loud. You are the Iranic version of Kipchak Hakan, i see.Sumerians were the first ARYAN and were responsible for the first ARYAN civilization.

Never heard of the LEGENDARY Aryan UBAID Sumerians? Those Aryans were from the Iranian Plateau.


https://i.postimg.cc/TPKK8yNB/samarra-iranian.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/mZYtGWVZ/west-iranian-samarra.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/3JLrK8Gh/mesopotamian-cylinder-seal-impression.png
https://i.postimg.cc/44Ps5fBc/ninurta-anzu.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/d18tvG2N/Double-headed-eagle-from-the-Sumerian-tablet.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g2Xpmvdy/Sumerian-Sun-God-Utu.jpg


My native ARYAN religion the Yezidism (Mithraism) has Sumerian origin!

[MS85]

‘MAGIC’ is an Aryan word and is derived from the Median priest/mystic class of 'MAGI'.

Legendary Aryan MAGI of the Aryan Kurdish/Medes race were the 3 kings who followed the star of Bethlehem.


https://i.postimg.cc/gj3W3pSM/95e751df5038af7014a33229da070dbf.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/vZbQL1d5/persians-and-medes-in-bas-relief.jpg

[MS85]

Aryan Mitanni princess Nefertiti (royal class) who became a queen of Egypt and brought 1 ARYAN solar deity MithRA to Eypt. Egyptians called it simply Sun deity 'RA'.



https://i.postimg.cc/655KykVh/111490556.png
https://i.postimg.cc/hjBWg6PT/nefertiti-1859116-960-720.jpg

[Token]

Stop derailing my thread with your fantasy, Kurd.

[MS85]

After the Aryan Sumerians/GUTI, the Aryan Mitanni and Aryan Kassites ruled Kurdistan.

Who were the Kassites?

Kassites called their homeland Kardu-nash or Kurdi-stan. Kassites were the ARYAN rulers of Babylon!


Kassites / Kossaeans

Several modern historians such as K. Balkan (in 1986, p. 8) and M. Heinz (in 1995, p. 167) have stated that the Kassite rulers of Babylon were members of the Indo-Iranian Kossaean people based in Hamadan-Kermanshah-Luristan area, but whose origins are not mentioned in historical records. The historians make several additional conclusions or assumptions:

First, that the Kossaeans mentioned by Greek writers were the successors of the Babylonian Kassites who were driven out of Babylonia by conquering Elamites (neighbours of the Kossaeans) in the 12th century BCE.

Second, that the Kassites in fleeing to Kossaea were returning to their ancestral lands.

Third, that the Kassites were originally Indo-Iranian Kossaeans who had settled the Hamadan-Kermanshah-Luristan area prior to the 17th century BCE.

Fourth, that the Indo-Iranian Kossaeans were immigrants to the area since they are not mentioned as being among the peoples who inhabited the central and southern Zagros in Sargonic (2270-2215 BCE) and Ur III / Third Dynasty of Ur era (21st to 20th century BCE) inscriptions. As we shall see below, these assumptions and conclusions are plausible.

Hamadan and Kermanshah, are two provinces with eponymous capital cities that straddle the northern Zagros mountains placing them strategically on the Aryan trade roads - the Silk Roads. Luristan lies to their south and the Iranian province of Elam is found to the west of Luristan. Elam and Kermanshah border modern-day Iraq and what would have been Northern Babylonia (see map).

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/ranghaya/kassites.htm


Mesopotamia witnessed the arrival about 1760 bce of the Kassites, who introduced the horse and the chariot and bore Indo-European names.

https://www.britannica.com/place/India/Early-Vedic-period#ref485125


https://i.postimg.cc/gj6G28b6/gettyimages-122219108-1024x1024.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T2czntCY/kassites02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/TPmS10Kx/main-home2-1.jpg

[MS85]

Stop derailing my thread with your fantasy, Kurd.Wannabe ARYAN, tell me what ARYAN Sumerians/Guti, Mitanni/Kassites, the Aryan Medes (Magi), Kurds, Kurdish ARYAN NorthWest Iranian ERGATIVE language, Kurdish ARYAN religion (Yezidism/Mithraism), Kurdish ARYAN history has to do with the ancient 'MONGOLOID' uncivilized Steppe people?

[Fibonacci]

LMAO, Aryans Sumerians made me laugh out loud. You are the Iranic version of Kipchak Hakan, i see.

This Semitic sumerian "kurd" has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. As for you, you can scream as loud as you can, whine, bitch and cry a river. At the end of the day, proto Iranians gave birth to the iranic indentity. Iranic identity was never nor is considered a European identity. They belong in the same family tree as the rest of the Iranian peoples around the world. Quit whining and bitching, for you to claim proto Iranians, you would have to consider the Iranic identity as part of the greater European identity which you won't and neither will anyone.

A child is not genetically 100% the same as it's father or mother. It's a mix of the 2 but continues the families bloodline. Proto Iranians might not be exactly the same as ossetians or Persians, but these people continue their identity. Stick that through your thick skull and quit bitching

[MS85]

This Semitic sumerian "kurd".Go back to the Altai. You don't belong in the Aryan lands..

[Token]

This Semitic sumerian "kurd" has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. As for you, you can scream as loud as you can, whine, bitch and cry a river. At the end of the day, proto Iranians gave birth to the iranic indentity. Iranic identity was never nor is considered a European identity. They belong in the same family tree as the rest of the Iranian peoples around the world. Quit whining and bitching, for you to claim proto Iranians, you would have to consider the Iranic identity as part of the greater European identity which you won't and neither well anyone.

A child is not genetically 100% the same as it's father nor mother. It's a mix of the 2 but continues the families bloodline. Proto Iranians might not be exactly the same as ossetians or Persians, but these people continue their identity. Stick that through your thick skull and quit bitching

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the beautiful culture that Northern Europeans gave you.

[Cumansky]

You know who is Proto Iranians, Lahestanis.

You know who I hate and abusing Polish Global 25 privledges, Germans.

You know who chased Ossetians to Europe, Turks.

You know who is going get high like Proto Iranians right now, don't @ me.

[MS85]

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the culture that Northern Europeans gave you.
LMAO! Wannabe ARYAN, when did MONGOLOID people from the Steppes gave me ERGATIVE constructed West Iranian ARYAN language, when did uncivilized MONGOLOID people gave me my ARYAN religion of the Yezidism/Mithraism?

When did somebody gave us our ARYAN values, our ARYAN soul?


Wannabe ARYAN, my people are ARYAN and have NOTHING to do with your type of people. We never came from Europe or the Steppes. We are the ABORIGINAL ARYAN people of our ARYAN homeland in the ARYAN Zagros Mountains.


I do belong to an ancient ARYAN Zagrosian race of GIANTS. My DNA is an ARYAN mixtrue of Anatolian + Iranian Neolithic farmers.


You was not, you are not and you will never be like us, NEVER!

[Mingle]

Thread is based on a false premise. I've yet to see an Iranic on here deny that Proto-Iranics had significant Yamnaya admixture and by extent that Yamnaya didn't have significant Northern European admixture. Also, having Northern European admixture doesn't make them Northern Europeans themselves or give Northern Euros the right to claim them. Modern Iranics have direct ancestry from Proto-Iranics, Northern Euros do not.

BTW, there hasn't been any IVC sample found as far as I know. What are you using as proxy for IVC? SISBA3?

[Mingle]

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the beautiful culture that Northern Europeans gave you.

Same applies to Germanics then.

[Token]

Thread is based on a false premise. I've yet to see an Iranic on here deny that Proto-Iranics had significant Yamnaya admixture and by extent that Yamnaya didn't have significant Northern European admixture. Also, having Northern European admixture doesn't make them Northern Europeans themselves or give Northern Euros the right to claim them. Modern Iranics have direct ancestry from Proto-Iranics, Northern Euros do not.

BTW, there hasn't been any IVC sample found as far as I know. What are you using as proxy for IVC? SISBA3?

They didn't just have Northern European admixture, they were actually pretty much full blown Northern Europeans. I'm using the culture where most archeologists, linguists and geneticists place the Proto-Iranic ground zero to proxy Proto-Iranic admixture, which makes complete sense, and all Iranic speakers shows some level of admixture coming from these people. Notably is the fact that, in India, the higher the caste the more Sintashta-related admixture people have.

Yamnaya didn't have Northern European admixture, they were the ones that gave birth to the Northern European genepool. You can't have admixture from a people that you originated.

[MS85]

Thread is based on a false premise. I've yet to see an Iranic on here deny that Proto-Iranics had significant Yamnaya admixture and by extent that Yamnaya didn't have significant Northern European admixture. Also, having Northern European admixture doesn't make them Northern Europeans themselves or give Northern Euros the right to claim them. Modern Iranics have direct ancestry from Proto-Iranics, Northern Euros do not.

BTW, there hasn't been any IVC sample found as far as I know. What are you using as proxy for IVC? SISBA3?Never heard of Graeco-ARYAN group? according to this theory Greco-Aryan evovled somewhere in Anatolia/Armenian Plateau one group went West and became Hellenic, other group went SouthEast (Kurdistan) and became Iranic (ARYAN).

Vyacheslav Ivanov wrote great stuff about it!


Some Steppes ancestry in south came much, much later as geneflow, or even by later Steppes people like the NOMADIC Scythians. But it has NOTHIG to do with Iranians or even proto-Indo-Iranians!


I have somewhere on my comp a paper based on IVC and it says that IVC is Iranic/ARYAN + AASI

[MS85]

They didn't just have Northern European admixture, they were actually pretty much full blown Northern Europeans. I'm using the culture where most archeologists, linguists and geneticists place the Proto-Iranic ground zero to proxy Proto-Iranic admixture, which makes complete sense, and all Iranic speakers shows some level of admixture coming from these people. Notably is the fact that, in India, the higher the caste the more Sintashta-related admixture people have.

Yamnaya didn't have Northern European admixture, they were the ones that gave birth to the Northern European genepool. You can't have admixture from a people that you originated.No, this is bull. Those people were never found in Kurdistan or Iran. They never found 'full blown Northern Europeans' skeletons in Kurdistan, lol.

Copper Age Iranians / ARYAN Medes had same DNA as modern Kurds.


Ancient DNA from Kurdistan is actually the same as modern Kurdish DNA in Kurdistan and doesn't indicate any migration from the Steppes at all.

[MS85]

Show me any ancient DNA from Kurdistan or ancient Western Persia that is 'full blown Northern Europeans', lol.

You can't and nobody can. Why? Because Kurdistan has always been Kurdic/Iranic/ARYAN and not Mongoloid.

Actually, they found many ancient, very acient samples in Kurdistan and none of those ARYAN samples from Zagros were 'full blown Northern Europeans', LMAO. Not from Neolithic age, not from the Copper Age, not from the Iron Age, NEVER!


As an TRUE full blooded ARYAN Kurd, I'm saying: ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

[Fibonacci]

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the beautiful culture that Northern Europeans gave you.

Don't feed me that shit, if I had the option to go back in time and wipe out those ass backward sand monkeys and muhammedans from destroying and shitting in Iranian culture, I would. I wasn't born under islamic culture nor do I welcome it. Im not named after muslim animals and pedophiles nor do I follow any of their ideologies.

Northern Europeans and eastern Europeans lost their paganism to another Semitic trash from the deserts of israel. You're all in the same boat

[Token]

Same applies to Germanics then.

Christianity was much more lenient to folk customs since the beginning, specially after it got in the hands of the Romans. The folklore and customs of Germanic countries remains pretty much undisturbed since pagan times.

[Mingle]

They didn't just have Northern European admixture, they were actually pretty much full blown Northern Europeans. I'm using the culture where most archeologists, linguists and geneticists place the Proto-Iranic ground zero to proxy Proto-Iranic admixture, which makes complete sense, and all Iranic speakers shows some level of admixture coming from these people. Notably is the fact that, in India, the higher the caste the more Sintashta-related admixture people have.

Yamnaya didn't have Northern European admixture, they were the ones that gave birth to the Northern European genepool. You can't have admixture from a people that you originated.

My point is they had a common origin with Northern Euros. They didn't migrate from Northern Europe, and Northern Euros don't descend from them. Every Iranic or Indic that has been on GEDmatch knows they partially descend from a group that had a lot of Northern Europe-related DNA.

What are you using for BMAC and IVC in the OP? I wanna model myself with those components.

[MS85]

Christianity was much more lenient to folk customs since the beginning, specially after it got in the hands of the Romans. The folklore and customs of Germanic countries remains pretty much undisturbed since pagan times.Christianity is like Judaism and Islam a SEMITIC religion. Jesus was a Semitic Jew.

You have got Judeo/Christean traditions. VERY SEMITIC!


My NATIVE religion (Yezidism/Mitraism) is ARYAN. I was BORN to this ARYAN religion!


ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

[Cumansky]

My point is they had a common origin with Northern Euros. They didn't migrate from Northern Europe, and Northern Euros don't descend from them. Every Iranic or Indic that has been on GEDmatch knows they partially descend from a group that had a lot of Northern Europe-related DNA.

What are you using for BMAC and IVC in the OP? I wanna model myself with those components.

Who are Jasz people to you? Do you consider them northern European, European, or what you consider them?

[Mingle]

Christianity was much more lenient to folk customs since the beginning, specially after it got in the hands of the Romans. The folklore and customs of Germanic countries remains pretty much undisturbed since pagan times.

Germanics retained aspects of their original religion no different to Iranics but they still lost most of it. Christmas is said to have Germanic origins and is celebrated today. No different to Nowruz among Iranics today, keep in mind that Nowruz is much much more Iranic than Christmas is Germanic. Also, Iranic religions still survive among a minority of Iranic groups (Yazdanism & Zoroastrianism) whereas no Germanic religion survives (excluding neo-pagan LARPers). It's pretty bold to claim it's completely disappeared among Iranics but completely unchanged among Germanics. What unchanged aspects of folklore and customs continually exist among Germanics but not Iranics?

[Token]

My point is they had a common origin with Northern Euros. They didn't migrate from Northern Europe, and Northern Euros don't descend from them. Every Iranic or Indic that has been on GEDmatch knows they partially descend from a group that had a lot of Northern Europe-related DNA.

What are you using for BMAC and IVC in the OP? I wanna model myself with those components.

Yep, they did migrate from Northern Europe. Sintashta (and by extension Andronovo and Srubna) is merely an offshoot from Eastern Corded Ware and this explains the close affinities between Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranic. Archeological records shows a steady morphing from NW IE to Proto-Iranic beginning in the easternmost segment of the Middle Dnieper culture, the Fatyanovo-Balanovo, proceeding with Abashevo and finishing with a migration towards the Ural Mountains, where these people from fucking Northern Europe gave birth to Sintashta after assimilating some Uralic speakers, which also explains Uralic loanwords in Indo-Iranic.

[Mingle]

Who are Jasz people to you? Do you consider them northern European, European, or what you consider them?Ugrics of Central Europe. They're not Iranic anymore. They don't have anything Iranic about them besides their name. They've completely assimilated into Hungarians. It would be like calling Catalans and Andalusians "Germanic" cause their name originates from Germanic tribes. Its no different to saying Hungarians are Turks as opposed to Ugrics.

[Cumansky]

Ugrics of Central Europe. They're not Iranic anymore. They don't have anything Iranic about them besides their name. They've completely assimilated into Hungarians. It would be like calling Catalans and Andalusians "Germanic" cause their name originates from Germanic tribes. Its no different to saying Hungarians are Turks as opposed to Ugrics.

They have Ossetian genetic markers.

[MS85]

Once again, DNA of the so called 'full blown Northern Europeans' has NEVER been found in Kurdistan and we have got ancient DNA from Kurdistan from every historic era, Neolithic Age, Copper Age etc. The DNA in Kurdistan shows that there was no migration from the Mongoloid uncivilized Steppes at all.


DNA in ARYAN Kurdistan is unchanged for thousands of years. ARYAN Kurds who speak their own ARYAN NorthWest Iranian Ergative language, my people have still our ARYAN values/RELIGION have still the same DNA of ancient people who lived during the times of the Mitanni/Kassites, Medes.


People of Kurdistan are actually the 'full blown' ARYANS. We are the true ARYANS with an ARYAN soul, we breath ARYANISM.


ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

[MS85]

Ancient Mitanni/Kassites in Kurdistan spoke Aryan and were Aryans. Ancient Medes in Kurdistan were ARYANS and were called ARYANS.

None of them had Mongoloid Steppes ancestry. We have got ancient DNA of their era and from their ARYAN region. Those ancient ARYAN folks were bloody ARYAN KURDS! These are FACTS!



ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

[Mingle]

They have Ossetian genetic markers.Doesn't matter, there's no cultural/linguistic continuity. They're a natively Ugric-speaking people with genetics very close to other Hungarians so they belong to that group. If I find a Romanian or non-Jasz Hungarian with an Iranic marker, will he then be Iranic? Also, what about the Jasz without Ossetian markers?

[Cumansky]

Doesn't matter, there's no cultural/linguistic continuity. They're a natively Ugric-speaking people with genetics very close to other Hungarians so they belong to that group. If I find a Romanian or non-Jasz Hungarian with an Iranic marker, will he then be Iranic? Also, what about the Jasz without Ossetian markers?

You a tryhard, but you take L regardless.

Jasz language may extinct, but genetic is preserved in the Central European Noble Houses, ie House of Dragos. I don't think my Grandparents choose my Father first name "Jasz" as lottery random choice? What do you think?

I close with my Uncle GEDmatch:

80.9% Belarusian + 19.1% Ossetian @ 2.57

[Fibonacci]

Christianity was much more lenient to folk customs since the beginning, specially after it got in the hands of the Romans. The folklore and customs of Germanic countries remains pretty much undisturbed since pagan times.

You people worship a curley haired negro jew who was born in the middle of the israeli desert. Every aspect of your culture is mostly westernized Semitic trash that came from the deserts of israel. Your names, Josh, Jacob, Aaron ... Etc are all Semitic.

At least with Iran, we celebrate the same traditions our ancestors did 2500 years ago with no amendments. You have no fucking clue the misery our people went through in order to retain the Persian language and tradition while being raped and massacred by isis like subhumans. One of the reasons why Iran is not an arabic speaking country is because of the hardship our people went through.

I'll give Europe 50 years and it'll be ran by monkeys and arabs. You people have no sense of nationality and patriotism. All of you are doomed to die because of your inability and weakness to defend yourself against invasions. Don't even try and say that our Iranic identity died out.

While the Iranian youth is moving towards
de-islamization, the German youth is becoming Islamic. Look at Paris and London then we can talk

[MS85]

You a tryhard, but you take L regardless.

Jasz language may extinct, but genetic is preserved in the Central European Noble Houses, ie House of Dragos. I don't think my Grandparents choose my Father first name "Jasz" as lottery random choice? What do you think?

I close with my Uncle GEDmatch:

80.9% Belarusian + 19.1% Ossetian @ 2.57Dude, you have only some minor ancestry of the EAST Iranic Alan. Hungarian Finno-Ugric Atilla the Hun had many Alan warriors in his army. Maybe some of them were assimilated by the Magyar. That doesn't make Magyar Alan or Ossetians, lol. You have only a very small part of EAST Iranic people. But that doesn't make you anything close to proto-Iranic (ARYAN) people from Kurdistan.

You are much more (Finno-Ugric) MAGYAR than EAST Iranian.

Proto-Iranic had ergativity in it. Even today NorthWest Iranic (ARYAN) language of the Kurds, Kurdish has ergative construction in it. Ergativity is native to West Asia and is absent in aboriginal Mongoloid languages in the Steppes.

ERGATIVITY in proto-Indo-Iranian makes proto-Indo-Iranian and therefore proto-Iranic, proto-West Iranic, NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau.

The Medes spoke NorthWest Iranian language. The Mitanni/Kassites spoke proto-Iranic lanaguage. All of them lived in Kurdistan and the ancient DNA of their era and the region where they lived show no Mongoloid Steppes ancestry at all.

My ARYAN people speak the same ARYAN language of the mighty Mitanni and the magnificent Medes. We have the same ARYAN religion as the legendary Mitanni! Our ARYAN DNA is from them (Mitanni/Medes). Your people speak Finno-Ugric Magyar, lol!


ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

[Mingle]

You a tryhard, but you take L regardless.

Jasz language may extinct, but genetic is preserved in the Central European Noble Houses, ie House of Dragos. I don't think my Grandparents choose my Father first name "Jasz" as lottery random choice? What do you think?

I close with my Uncle GEDmatch:

80.9% Belarusian + 19.1% Ossetian @ 2.57You get modeled as a West Asian-shifted North Slav which isn't too different from other Hungarians (marginally different to other Hungarians at best).

The Ossetians are genetically indistinguishable from other Caucasians. So if you want to base it purely on genetics and nothing else (which I don't agree with), then it's questionable if the Ossetians are even Iranic. Ossetians have little to no direct Proto-Iranic blood and you barely have any Ossetian blood. You (like every every other Hungarian) would have much more Proto-Germanic and especially Proto-Slavic blood than Proto-Iranic blood. Even if there is a direct Proto-Iranic (not to be confused with Ossetian) genetic component among the Jasz, it is insignificant.

Finally, you don't even speak Iranic. So that puts you in the same basket as a hypothetical Catalan claiming to be Germanic and not Romance. If you went "back" to Ossetia today you would be a complete alien and treated no differently to any other Hungarian/European.

[Oghuz]

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the beautiful culture that Northern Europeans gave you.

Actually this BS has been disproven many times before. Arabs just "influenced" us to change our religion. They did this by defeating armies of one Persian family called Sassanid. Kudos to them. It has been proven COUNTLESS times that there was no Arabic genetic input into modern day Iran by that single Invasion. Penninsulan Arabs came, changed our religion to Islam and left within a century. No genetic or cultural change happened. We still speak persian, celebrate Nowroz etc. Qureshi, Hashmi Arabs that invaded Iran had J-M267 haplogroups. Among Iranians, only 3 % J-M267 peninsula haplogroup exists. That 3% itself represents Assyrians, Jews who live in Iran etc. Here is a EUROPE PMC detailed research paper on the subject.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312577/

And by the way why are you taking name of Arabs like they are some lower slave race. Arabs are warriors with heritage. No matter what their beliefs have been, they have achieved far greater than Germans. They implemented their belief system (call it crazy or whatever) on literally close to 2 billion people now. They conquered almost everyone they met in field. Arabs invaded Spain, they invaded parts of Gaul 6000 KM away from their desert homeland. I mean that is fucking crazy military achievement, is not it ? Yes the peninsula long nosed Arab warriors that holly"Jew"wood shows as some retarded maniac today, they did it. You can run your mouth all day long but this won't change the fact that MENA groups are martial warriors Be it ARABS, IRANICS or TURKS. If you are a respectful human being you will respect that. As an Iranian, I am probably supposed to hate arabs but I am a rational human being coming from a respectful household, I am not taught to disrespect others. May be your built is different. I respect European people for their achievements and I acknowledge their massive contribution to modern day world but you Sir are coming across as a stupid bigot.

[Cumansky]

Dude, you have only some minor ancestry of the EAST Iranic Alan. Hungarian Finno-Ugric Atilla the Hun had many Alan warriors in his army. Maybe some of them were assimilated by the Magyar. That doesn't make Magyar Alan or Ossetians, lol. You have only a very small part of EAST Iranic people. But that doesn't make you anything close to proto-Iranic (ARYAN) people from Kurdistan.

You are much more (Finno-Ugric) MAGYAR than EAST Iranian.

Proto-Iranic had ergativity in it. Even today NorthWest Iranic (ARYAN) language of the Kurds, Kurdish has ergative construction in it. Ergativity is native to West Asia and is absent in aboriginal Mongoloid languages in the Steppes.

ERGATIVITY in proto-Indo-Iranian makes proto-Indo-Iranian and therefore proto-Iranic, proto-West Iranic, NATIVE to the Iranian Plateau.

The Medes spoke NorthWest Iranian language. The Mitanni/Kassites spoke proto-Iranic lanaguage. All of them lived in Kurdistan and the ancient DNA of their era and the region where they lived show no Mongoloid Steppes ancestry at all.

My ARYAN people speak the same ARYAN language of the mighty Mitanni and the magnificent Medes. We have the same ARYAN religion as the legendary Mitanni! Our ARYAN DNA is from them (Mitanni/Medes). Your people speak Finno-Ugric Magyar, lol!


ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

There is already Iranian government officials that added me in Facebook, they purpose to preserve Iranian tradition and we discuss all about my origin. Walahi fam.

[Token]

Ancient Mitanni/Kassites in Kurdistan spoke Aryan and were Aryans. Ancient Medes in Kurdistan were ARYANS and were called ARYANS.

None of them had Mongoloid Steppes ancestry. We have got ancient DNA of their era and from their ARYAN region. Those ancient ARYAN folks were bloody ARYAN KURDS! These are FACTS!

ARYANISM FOREVER, b!tch$s!

https://archive-media-1.nyafuu.org/bant/image/1497/99/1497992350583.png

[MS85]

There is already Iranian government officials that added me in Facebook, they purpose to preserve Iranian tradition and we discuss all about my origin. Walahi fam.Just wait for some years. You should join Kurdistan Government in North Kurdistan soon. Great Kurdistan will be liberated sooner than you think. We have got Turks on their knees and the Turks are in the corner they can't get out


слава тебе небесное

[Oghuz]

This thread could have becomes a great source of information but because of bigotry it has turned into another Troll fest.

[MS85]

https://archive-media-1.nyafuu.org/bant/image/1497/99/1497992350583.pngWannabe ARYAN, did i hurt your feelings?

I rule your world and you have nothing to counter my arguments.


Do you feel the power/energy of the real full blooded ARYAN?

[Cumansky]

You get modeled as a West Asian-shifted North Slav which isn't too different from other Hungarians (marginally different to other Hungarians at best).

The Ossetians are genetically indistinguishable from other Caucasians. So if you want to base it purely on genetics and nothing else (which I don't agree with), then it's questionable if the Ossetians are even Iranic. Ossetians have little to no direct Proto-Iranic blood and you barely have any Ossetian blood. You (like every every other Hungarian) would have much more Proto-Germanic and especially Proto-Slavic blood than Proto-Iranic blood. Even if there is a direct Proto-Iranic (not to be confused with Ossetian) genetic component among the Jasz, it is insignificant.

Finally, you don't even speak Iranic. So that puts you in the same basket as a hypothetical Catalan claiming to be Germanic and not Romance. If you went "back" to Ossetia today you would be a complete alien and treated no differently to any other Hungarian/European.

I'm not Hungarian, culturally I'm Vlach Jasz as my forefathers, ethnically Polish Szlachta.

There is people like me that live in eastern Hungary particularly Szeged, they are cousins. We are not Hungarians, my ancestors founded Moldova in 1320 AD, we are simply Voivoda to the Hungarian Monarch, our region ofcourse belong to Kingdom of Hungary.

[Fibonacci]

https://archive-media-1.nyafuu.org/bant/image/1497/99/1497992350583.png

What happens if I'm lighter than my supposed ancestor? Does he become my descendant?

[Cumansky]

This thread could have becomes a great source of information but because of bigotry it has turned into another Troll fest.

Right, I try be civilian here and I usually not fam.

[Oghuz]

Wannabe ARYAN, did i hurt your feelings?

I rule your world and you have nothing to counter my arguments.


Do you feel the power/energy of the real full blooded ARYAN?

I have a question.

Yamanaya came from Khvalynsk_EN right.

Khvalynsk had input from Iranian Farmers and EEHG ?

[Mingle]

https://archive-media-1.nyafuu.org/bant/image/1497/99/1497992350583.pngModern Iranics don't care much about Proto-Iranics (who they draw a significant portion of their ancestry from even if they're not genetically all that close). Modern Iranics get their identity and some of their culture from them but otherwise don't think or know about them. The Iranic groups they think about are or associate with are the Classical Age Iranic groups since their earliest recorded history is mostly associated with Classical Age Iranics. But modern Iranics still have claims to those people by being their direct descendants and continuing their legacy. Its like saying that a mixed race child can't claim his heritage cause he's genetically distant to both his parents.

[MS85]

I'm not Hungarian, culturally I'm Vlach Jasz as my forefathers, ethnically Polish Szlachta.

There is people like me that live in eastern Hungary particularly Szeged, they are cousins. We are not Hungarians, my ancestors founded Moldova in 1320 AD, we are simply Voivoda to the Hungarian Monarch, our region ofcourse belong to Kingdom of Hungary.Do you speak Russian? I was born in Tbilisi, USSR (Georgia). I speak Russian as good as my native ARYAN language Kurmanji

[Oghuz]

What happens if I'm lighter than my supposed ancestor? Does he become my descendant?

The criteria for supremacy among keyboard bigots is that whoever is more fairer is actually a great warrior.

[Oghuz]

Right, I try be civilian here and I usually not fam.

That is the problem here, such discussions end up being derailed by bigots from both sides

[MS85]

Persia should help Kurds against our enemies and against imperialists who want Kurdish resources. Persia should support Great Kurdistan and then we can establish an Aryan Union. An ARYAN Union between Great Kurdistan and Persia. It is my dream to see one day a revival of the Medo-Persian homeland!

Aryan Union = a confederation between Aryan people, mostly Kurds & Persians!

[Altaylardan Tunaya]

When firdowsi had finished his masterpiece "the book of kings", many nations in (northern) europe were busy with tree climbing at the time..

[Fibonacci]

Actually this BS has been disproven many times before. Arabs just "influenced" us to change our religion. They did this by defeating armies of one Persian family called Sassanid. Kudos to them. It has been proven COUNTLESS times that there was no Arabic genetic input into modern day Iran by that single Invasion. Penninsulan Arabs came, changed our religion to Islam and left within a century. No genetic or cultural change happened. We still speak persian, celebrate Nowroz etc. Qureshi, Hashmi Arabs that invaded Iran had J-M267 haplogroups. Among Iranians, only 3 % J-M267 peninsula haplogroup exists. That 3% itself represents Assyrians, Jews who live in Iran etc. Here is a EUROPE PMC detailed research paper on the subject.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312577/

And by the way why are you taking name of Arabs like they are some lower slave race. Arabs are warriors with heritage. No matter what their beliefs have been, they have achieved far greater than Germans. They implemented their belief system (call it crazy or whatever) on literally close to 2 billion people now. They conquered almost everyone they met in field. Arabs invaded Spain, they invaded parts of Gaul 6000 KM away from their desert homeland. I mean that is fucking crazy military achievement, is not it ? Yes the peninsula long nosed Arab warriors that holly"Jew"wood shows as some retarded maniac today, they did it. You can run your mouth all day long but this won't change the fact that MENA groups are martial warriors Be it ARABS, IRANICS or TURKS. If you are a respectful human being you will respect that. As an Iranian, I am probably supposed to hate arabs but I am a rational human being coming from a respectful household, I am not taught to disrespect others. May be your built is different. I respect European people for their achievements and I acknowledge their massive contribution to modern day world but you Sir are coming across as a stupid bigot.

"Arabs are warriors" get that iranic flag off and quit acting like you're an Iranian. Youre the same garbage we have to deal with in Iran. You're a kiss ass, submissive jihadi. Yeah. Keep repeating those words to yourself knowing the misery and damage those muhammaden subhuman dealt to Iran.

If anything, you're proving their point by admitting your submissiveness to islam and Arabs. You are part of the problem that makes Iran a shithole

[MS85]

I have a question.

Yamanaya came from Khvalynsk_EN right.

Khvalynsk had input from Iranian Farmers and EEHG ?Yamnaya was a second stage PIEan culture. It was a mixture between Mongoloid Steppes people and Aryan farmers from the Iranian Plateau. Aryan farmers from Leyla-Tepe brought metallurgy and advanced farming to Northern Caucasus. Later on Yamnaya folks (as second stage PIEans) penetrated Europe.

[Oghuz]

"Arabs are warriors" get that iranic flag off and quit acting like you're an Iranian. Youre the same garbage we have to deal with in Iran. You're a kiss ass, submissive jihadi. Yeah. Keep repeating those words to yourself knowing the misery and damage those muhammaden subhuman dealt to Iran.

If anything, you're proving their point by admitting your submissiveness to islam and Arabs. You are part of the problem that makes Iran a shithole

Do not be an idiot OK. I never said I idealize arabs or anything. I consider them desert nomads and nothing else.

I just told the Bigot guy (OP) here that Arabs did not change anything in Iran except religion. big deal ? is that wrong from me that I told him that Iran has no genetic input from arabs ? and Yes I do acknowledge the military success of arabs ? is that wrong ?

Lastly, I do not need your certification to prove my nationalism. Iran is not a shithole, it is my country.

[MS85]

"Arabs are warriors" get that iranic flag off and quit acting like you're an Iranian. Youre the same garbage we have to deal with in Iran. You're a kiss ass, submissive jihadi. Yeah. Keep repeating those words to yourself knowing the misery and damage those muhammaden subhuman dealt to Iran.

If anything, you're proving their point by admitting your submissiveness to islam and Arabs. You are part of the problem that makes Iran a shitholeI don't want to insult anybody, but personally as an ethnic Kurd I do respect Arabs much more than Turks. With all due respect but I see Turks as parasites.


Love your friends, but respect your enemies, never undervalue your enemy!

[Oghuz]

Yamnaya was a second stage PIEan culture. It was a mixture between Mongoloid Steppes people and Aryan farmers from the Iranian Plateau. Aryan farmers from Leyla-Tepe brought metallurgy and advanced farming to Northern Caucasus. Later on Yamnaya folks (as second stage PIEans) penetrated Europe.

Yes that is the thing. So technically, speaking first stage PIE culture was Khvalnsky? which came from Iranian farmers+CHG and it later become the famous Yamnaya.

While, the European EN/C cline came from Anatolia farmers + WHG that gave out the Corded ware culture ?

.... Hmm so basically Europeans have massive inputs from Iran and Anatolia :)

[Token]

Yes that is the thing. So technically, speaking first stage PIE culture was Khvalnsky? which came from Iranian farmers+CHG and it later become the famous Yamnaya.

While, the European EN/C cline came from Anatolia farmers + WHG that gave out the Corded ware culture ?

.... Hmm so basically Europeans have massive inputs from Iran and Anatolia :)

It seems you know shit about genetics my friend. You and your Iranic friends here.

[Cumansky]

Do you speak Russian? I was born in Tbilisi, USSR (Georgia). I speak Russian as good as my native ARYAN language Kurmanji

Nah fam, I speak my native tongue Polish.

I have low Germanic admixture of all Slavs East, West, South. I'm not Russian my ancestors never raped by Mongols, my Grandfathers, Uncles they defeated allies in Montecassino and North Africa battles WWII after Russians deported us to Siberian workcamps and then escaped to Iran thru Caspian Sea refugee camps, and make a plan in Persia to go back to western front, only to slap those Germans in Montecassino raise Polish flag as usual to go back Soviet Communist Poland for next 45 years, most my ancestors killed many people they were traumatized and paranoid they escape to Latin America. And you saying we don't defend our country from invasion. Jews has brainwash alot of people cause you don't know any of this. Me the Catholic with Hebrew name is the last nigga that brainwash around here.

[Oghuz]

I don't want to insult anybody, but personally as an ethnic Kurd I do respect Arabs much more than Turks. With all due respect but I see Turks as parasites.


Love your friends, but respect your enemies, never undervalue your enemy!

Yes

NO ONE SHOULD DISRESPECT ANYONE.

This is a good information thread and lets keep it that way.

[MS85]

When firdowsi had finished his masterpiece "the book of kings", many nations in (northern) europe were busy with tree climbing at the time..Monkeys don't have always to be brown.

White monkeys are more STUPID, but cuter as pets.


https://i.postimg.cc/mDNbnqFp/26ab6c00b1d9b70216a4368cd1f5bab0.jpg

[Oghuz]

It seems you know shit about genetics my friend. You and your Iranic friends here.

Can you prove my statement wrong in a civilized way (instead of trolling)?

[Oghuz]

Monkeys don't have always to be brown.

White monkeys are more STUPID, but cuter as pets.


https://i.postimg.cc/mDNbnqFp/26ab6c00b1d9b70216a4368cd1f5bab0.jpg

Nooooo

Cmon Azizam.

[MS85]

Nooooo

Cmon Azizam.Sorry, will not do it again. Somebody started about 'tree climbing' in Europe and I couldn't resist. Sorry, it was meant as a joke.

[Oghuz]

Sorry, will not do it again. Somebody started about 'tree climbing' in Europe and I couldn't resist. Sorry, it was meant as a joke.

I know.

But we should stay civilized otherwise our point of view will not go through.

[Imperator Biff]

I don't want to insult anybody, but personally as an ethnic Kurd I do respect Arabs much more than Turks. With all due respect but I see Turks as parasites.


Love your friends, but respect your enemies, never undervalue your enemy!
>doesn’t want to insult anyone
>precedes to call Turks parasites

Say what you will about Turks, but I have a lot more respect for them then gypsy, wog terrorist trash like you.
Also Anatolian Turks are genetically more aryan than Kurds lmao. So you can stop with the cringe larping.
And like a drooling retard you claim BMAC was aryan (it wasn’t) and Andronovo was ‘mongoloid’ (yeah nothing screams chink like high frequencies of blonde hair and blue eyes LOL) when in fact BMAC samples from Gonur Tepe had very high amounts of mongoloid west Siberian admixture! :D

[XenophobicPrussian]

Can you prove my statement wrong in a civilized way (instead of trolling)?
Khvalynsk was 75% EHG. Europeans do have CHG(nothing from Iran or post neolithic Anatolia outside of southern Euros), but the CHG side of the ancestry of PIEs wasn't Proto-Indo-European because it was all female mediated. There is no R1 at all in any pre Indo-European invasion Middle-East/Caucasus or MENA HGs, it's all in N. Europe. Even ignoring the archeological records and historians, that is enough evidence PIE had nothing to do with the populations of the Caucasus and below.

To the butthurt Natufian who thinks he's something other than what he is because one of his ancestors forced the majority of his ancestors to speak a foreign language and calls Mongoloids "uncivilized": those "uncivilized" Mongoloids literally dominated your shitty slum of a region for the entire middle-late Medieval period, a period your region still hasn't evolved out of.

[Babak]

No such thing as Iranic identity today, your 'Iranic identity' was wiped out by Arabs and their Islam. You guys utterly failed at preserving the beautiful culture that Northern Europeans gave you.

Fucking retard constantly obsessed with Iranians. You deserve all the shit you get on this thread for parroting about pseudo EUrOPEAN ArYAN superiority. You really need to stop whining and bitching about this.

While I don't agree with some of the bullshit MS85 is posting, you are no different bashing Iranians on every single thread and degrading their identity. Considering you worship a Semitic Jew who resembled more like an Arab, you arent in any position to bark about Iranians "failing" to preserve their culture. With that said, Northern Europeans have nothing to do with Proto-Iranics nor do they have any claims on Iranian culture and Iranic identity. You have zero affinity to them.

[Babak]

Don't feed me that shit, if I had the option to go back in time and wipe out those ass backward sand monkeys and muhammedans from destroying and shitting in Iranian culture, I would. I wasn't born under islamic culture nor do I welcome it. Im not named after muslim animals and pedophiles nor do I follow any of their ideologies.

Northern Europeans and eastern Europeans lost their paganism to another Semitic trash from the deserts of israel. You're all in the same boat

Lol why are you falling for his bullshit? Nobody destroyed Iranian culture nor the Iranic identity, not even arabs. Iranians have always remained as Iranians for centuries.

[Lucas]

So traditionally Kalashes are remnants of not mixed ancient proto Iranics?

[Peterski]

So traditionally Kalashes are remnants of not mixed ancient proto Iranics?

You tell me:

https://pobierak.jeja.pl/images/a/c/b/131973_kalasze.jpg

[Borealis]

So traditionally Kalashes are remnants of not mixed ancient proto Iranics?

They are not in any way.

[Token]

Fucking retard constantly obsessed with Iranians. You deserve all the shit you get on this thread for parroting about pseudo EUrOPEAN ArYAN superiority. You really need to stop whining and bitching about this.

While I don't agree with some of the bullshit MS85 is posting, you are no different bashing Iranians on every single thread and degrading their identity. Considering you worship a Semitic Jew who resembled more like an Arab, you arent in any position to bark about Iranians "failing" to preserve their culture. With that said, Northern Europeans have nothing to do with Proto-Iranics nor do they have any claims on Iranian culture and Iranic identity. You have zero affinity to them.

Actually most people seems to agree with me here, including 99% of the top tier global scientists. Only you pseudo-nationalist Iranian retards are whining about it. Sadly, as most West Asians in real life would be quite proud of having some European ancestors considering how submissive they are to Europeans.

[Sacrificed Ram]

In end of thread I concluded Northern Europeans were Proto-Iranians, Yamnaya 44% Iranian Chacolithic and it going to Corded...

[MS85]

Actually most people seems to agree with me here, including 99% of the top tier global scientists. Only you pseudo-nationalist Iranian retards are whining about it. Sadly, as most West Asians in real life would be quite proud of having some European ancestors considering how submissive they are to Europeans.
LMAO, How many scientists do you know by name, 2?

You can try whatever you want, but nobody is in a position to rewrite history and reconstruct history according to your fairy tales in this age of technology


The Armenian hypothesis of Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze and Vyacheslav Ivanov has been proven right.


If ARYANS in West Asia were submissive why did Churchill bombed Kurds with chemical weapons?

[MS85]

In end of thread I concluded Northern Europeans were Proto-Iranians, Yamnaya 44% Iranian Chacolithic and it going to Corded...
Have you read some stuff from Vyacheslav Ivanov. Magnificent stuff. That guy was ahead of his time. A true visionary legend!

https://i.postimg.cc/FFB8XpxD/ivanov.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/B6chLcWP/3-19.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/jjws62vh/Indop2.jpg

[J. Ketch]

Actually most people seems to agree with me here, including 99% of the top tier global scientists. Only you pseudo-nationalist Iranian retards are whining about it. Sadly, as most West Asians in real life would be quite proud of having some European ancestors considering how submissive they are to Europeans.
This is something I find peculiar. They come on European forums, they come to live in European countries, they suck up to Europeans often, yet they're so offended at the idea that Europeans founded much of their culture and contributed to their ancestry? If you're so proud, fuck off back.

[MS85]

So traditionally Kalashes are remnants of not mixed ancient proto Iranics?Huh? who is saying they have anything to do with proto Iranics? There is not evidence for that. Maybe they just mixed with some Saka/Scythians after the Iron Age. And it was actually the case because there is scientific evidence that there was a invasion of mixed people (BMAC/Steppes) only AFTER the Iron Age

Btw, Klash people have much more Iranian auDNA from the Iranian Plateau.

[MS85]

yet they're so offended at the idea that Europeans founded much of their culture and contributed to their ancestry?Because those are STUPID ideas. It is simply not possible that Europeans are going to rewrite our history.

How arrogant are you by STEALING our history. It is up to us to write OWN history, we don't need Europeans for that. You are not in position to do that. Who the fuck do you think you are?

My people were part of the cradle of the civilisation, they build great civilisations while people in Europe were still cannibals. Do you think I want to change and abandon my true rich history with a history that is much more inferior than my own native history?

We are not some kind of brown people from Africa that you can project your will upon us. We will fight back, like we always did.

Just don't STEAL my history!


I don't want anybody's history, I have got my own history. And I don't want to be anybody else, because I'm PROUD about my ancestors. What is wrong about that?


ARYANISM forever!

[Babak]

Actually most people seems to agree with me here, including 99% of the top tier global scientists. Only you pseudo-nationalist Iranian retards are whining about it. Sadly, as most West Asians in real life would be quite proud of having some European ancestors considering how submissive they are to Europeans.

I dont constantly post about the bullshit here claiming that steppe nomads came from Iran. Its you here that parrot and trolls about it 24/7. All of your posts on this forum consist of Iranians and how much steppe ancestry they have. I dont see any Iranian here barking about Europeans except for a fake kurdish troll posing as a kurd.

[MS85]

https://i.postimg.cc/x8GyF0jk/Yamnaya-2.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/jS3613Th/d.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/YqbQ4Dvw/migrations-01.jpg

[MS85]

I dont see any Iranian here barking about Europeans except for a fake kurdish troll posing as a kurd.I know what your agenda is. But without Kurds Persians would achieve nothing. Actually Persians stole everything from the Medes/Kurds, and you know that. That why you try to reverse everything in opposed direction.

I'm more Kurd than you will ever be Iranian..


The Medes were daddies of the Persians, you should show respect to those who made you.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqbQ4Dvw/migrations-01.jpg

[Babak]

I know what your agenda is. But without Kurds Persians would achieve nothing. Actually Persians stole everything from the Medes/Kurds, and you know that. That why you try to reverse everything in opposed direction.

I'm more Kurd than you ever be Iranian..


https://i.postimg.cc/YqbQ4Dvw/migrations-01.jpg

Just shut the fuck up and stop posting retarded claims.

[MS85]

Just shut the fuck up and stop posting retarded claims.You don't know what you are talking about. Have you ever read a book of Vyacheslav Ivanov? Have you actually read just a book, like a detective story or something, for real. If you did, you would never be that lost. Either you are lost in the void big time or just a troll who is spreading nonsense in the name of 'Iranians'.

[Babak]

You don't know what you are talking about. Have you every read a book of Vyacheslav Ivanov? Have you actually read just a book for real. If you did, you would never be that lost. Either you are lost in the void big time or just a troll who is spreading nonsense in the name of 'Iranians'.

Yes my fake kurdish troll friend, please keep on going.

[MS85]

Yes my fake kurdish troll friend, please keep on going.I will only change my mind when people can disprove my arguments.

Just tell me why proto-Indo-Iranian had an ergative construction while there is no ergativity in the Steppes.

Just tell me why the ancient Steppes and Yamnaya were full of Near Eastern auDNA.

Just tell me why all examined ancient known IEan speaker groups like the Mycenaeans and the Hittites were mostly J2a and the Steppes ancestry was almost absent among them.


I want and I'm ready for a REAL discussion here.

[MS85]

I will only change my mind when people can disprove my arguments.

Just tell me why proto-Indo-Iranian had an ergative construction while there I no ergativity in the Steppes.

Just tell me why the ancient Steppes and Yamnaya were full of Near Eastern auDNA.

Just tell me why all examined ancient known IEan speaker groups like the Mycenaeans and the Hittites were mostly J2a and the Steppes ancestry was almost absent among them.


I want and I'm ready for a REAL discussion here.

I forgot eastern Iranian BMAC J2 folks and other ancient South Asian people.

[MS85]

You tell me:

https://pobierak.jeja.pl/images/a/c/b/131973_kalasze.jpgThe best reply I have seen here.

[Pandit]

That's it, i am moving to Norway for Nordic beauties.

[Fibonacci]

Just tell me why all examined ancient known IEan speaker groups like the Mycenaeans and the Hittites were mostly J2a and the Steppes ancestry was almost absent among them.


Its called the spread of language. Answer my question, in your logic, am I right to say that French is an african language just because of the fact that it
is the official language of multiple african countries?
just like how the africans were colonized by the french and adopted the french language, you sir are sumerian semite whose ancestors had to adopt the an indo european language.
Unlike you, the average Iranian has up to 25% steppe ancestry, youre arguing for no one but yourself. just because youre an unmixed native sumerian, it doesnt mean
everyone else around you the same.

[Fibonacci]

Just tell me why all examined ancient known IEan speaker groups like the Mycenaeans and the Hittites were mostly J2a and the Steppes ancestry was almost absent among them.


Its called the spread of language. Answer my question, in your logic, am I right to say that French is an african language just because of the fact that it
is the official language of multiple african countries?
just like how the africans were colonized by the french and adopted the french language, you sir are sumerian semite whose ancestors had to adopt the an indo european language.
Unlike you, the average Iranian has up to 25% steppe ancestry, youre arguing for no one but yourself. just because youre an unmixed native sumerian, it doesnt mean
everyone else around you is the same.

Tajiks and other eastern iranians are mostly steppe. Ive seen tons of afghans with blue eyes, and as far as history goes, blue eyes evolved somewhere near the black sea.
So how did these afghans get their blue eyes exactly? out of the desert or ancestors from the steppe? no one here agrees with what you have to say because youre
the only person in the world who doesnt agree with the concept of indo european languages.

[zarzian]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

I dont know why a quadroon brown nigger Brazilian is so obsessed with Iranians, go back to pick pocketing in your Downtown Rio favela. And your claims will not fly as ancient Iranians have 0 influence from Northern Europeans, the Psuedo Northern European signal is just assimilated Nomads which carried the EHG Signal. Iranians are majority J2, the same signal in Myceneans and Hittites. Meanwhile R1 carriers genocided the Old European males and bred with Farmer wives, in essence Most Europeans are half cuckbreed because the farmer wives carried the cuck genes since their fathers were cucks.

[PaleoEuropean]

True but not all non-European lineages are Indo-Aryan. Many groups like J, E and some R's came up through Anatolia. Bosnians, Serbs and Croats have a higher affinity to Northern Europeans than most Germanic and French people do as they largely descend from WHG lines like I1 and I2.

[MS85]

Its called the spread of language. Answer my question, in your logic, am I right to say that French is an african language just because of the fact that it
is the official language of multiple african countries?
just like how the africans were colonized by the french and adopted the french language, you sir are sumerian semite whose ancestors had to adopt the an indo european language.
Unlike you, the average Iranian has up to 25% steppe ancestry, youre arguing for no one but yourself. just because youre an unmixed native sumerian, it doesnt mean
everyone else around you is the same.

Tajiks and other eastern iranians are mostly steppe. Ive seen tons of afghans with blue eyes, and as far as history goes, blue eyes evolved somewhere near the black sea.
So how did these afghans get their blue eyes exactly? out of the desert or ancestors from the steppe? no one here agrees with what you have to say because youre
the only person in the world who doesnt agree with the concept of indo european languages.Big fail. Unlike 1 uniform French language, the language of the Hittites and the Mycenaeans was not the same. Mycenaeans spoke proto-Hellenic, while the language of the Hittites was part of the Anatolian language family. So we have here 2 different ancient language families here in 1 small area.
People like you have no explaination and fail to face the facts and the only argument what they can ever use is 'elite dominace'.
They found out that the language of the Hittites could even predate the Yamnaya!

Sumerians were not Semitic. Sumerians were very different from the Semitic Akkadians.

Some steppes ancestry in Iranians is not that old and risen in Iran only after the Iron Age. Some steppes ancestry in Iran came AFTER the Aryan era of people like Mitanni, so only AFTER the Scythians and it could be just related to those people.

They tested the ancient Zoroastrian Parsen who never mixed with the Muslims and those Zoroastrian Parsen from Iran were just native people of Iran. There was almost no Steppes ancestry in those Parsen.

Do you know the actual history of the Tajiks, lol. Tajiks have Persian origin, nothing to do with the Steppes. Real Tajiks came from Iranian people who spoke Farsi. Eastern Iranians have a lot Mongoloid auDNA in them. So there was a migration of people from the Steppes who was partly Mongoloids. Those people who brought Mongoloid auDNA with them into SouthCentral Asia could be also the very same people who brought other Steppe related ancestry. There is absolutely no evidence that it was brought by ancient proto-Iranians.

There are many explanations for that. You are only obsessed with 1 option and forget about all other 1000 different options.

[Token]

Big fail. Unlike 1 uniform French language, the language of the Hittites and the Mycenaeans was not the same. Mycenaeans spoke proto-Hellenic, while the language of the Hittites was part of the Anatolian language family. So we have here 2 different ancient language families here in 1 small area.
People like you have no explaination and fail to face the facts and the only argument what they can ever use is 'elite dominace'.
They found out that the language of the Hittites could even predate the Yamnaya!

Sumerians were not Semitic. Sumerians were very different from the Semitic Akkadians.

Some steppes ancestry in Iranians is not that old and risen in Iran only after the Iron Age. Some steppes ancestry in Iran came AFTER the Aryan era of people like Mitanni, so only AFTER the Scythians and it could be just related to those people.

They tested the ancient Zoroastrian Parsen who never mixed with the Muslims and those Zoroastrian Parsen from Iran were just native people of Iran. There was almost no Steppes ancestry in those Parsen.

Do you know the actual history of the Tajiks, lol. Tajiks have Persian origin, nothing to do with the Steppes. Real Tajiks came from Iranian people who spoke Farsi. Eastern Iranians have a lot Mongoloid auDNA in them. So there was a migration of people from the Steppes who was partly Mongoloids. Those people who brought Mongoloid auDNA with them into SouthCentral Asia could be also the very same people who brought other Steppe related ancestry. There is absolutely no evidence that it was brought by ancient proto-Iranians.

There are many explanations for that. You are only obsessed with 1 option and forget about all other 1000 different options.

LOL, the retarded Iranicized Assyrian went full crazy now.

[Fibonacci]

Big fail. Unlike 1 uniform French language, the language of the Hittites and the Mycenaeans was not the same. Mycenaeans spoke proto-Hellenic, while the language of the Hittites was part of the Anatolian language family. So we have here 2 different ancient language families here in 1 small area.
People like you have no explaination and fail to face the facts and the only argument what they can ever use is 'elite dominace'.
They found out that the language of the Hittites could even predate the Yamnaya!

Sumerians were not Semitic. Sumerians were very different from the Semitic Akkadians.

Some steppes ancestry in Iranians is not that old and risen in Iran only after the Iron Age. Some steppes ancestry in Iran came AFTER the Aryan era of people like Mitanni, so only AFTER the Scythians and it could be just related to those people.

They tested the ancient Zoroastrian Parsen who never mixed with the Muslims and those Zoroastrian Parsen from Iran were just native people of Iran. There was almost no Steppes ancestry in those Parsen.

Do you know the actual history of the Tajiks, lol. Tajiks have Persian origin, nothing to do with the Steppes. Real Tajiks came from Iranian people who spoke Farsi. Eastern Iranians have a lot Mongoloid auDNA in them. So there was a migration of people from the Steppes who was partly Mongoloids. Those people who brought Mongoloid auDNA with them into SouthCentral Asia could be also the very same people who brought other Steppe related ancestry. There is absolutely no evidence that it was brought by ancient proto-Iranians.

There are many explanations for that. You are only obsessed with 1 option and forget about all other 1000 different options.

Why do you keep bringing up Zoroastrians? Zoroastrianism is a religion. Which means it can be adopted by fucking anyone. this arguments means absolutely nothing.
You are just proving my point further more. Steppe ancestry in Iranians came after the Iranic migration to Iran.
Before the iranian migration, the natives who lived in Iran spoke elamite. We iranians are even taught this at our schools. The Iranian academia agrees and approves the concept of indo European migration into the Iranian plateau
We are taught that Persians and Medes migrated into Iran from Turkmenistan, from there, their ancestors were the andronovo.
There are tons of Iranian textbooks that describe this event very thoroughly.

[Fibonacci]

LOL, the retarded Iranicized Assyrian went full crazy now.

you are no different than him. You just wanna take credit for what the Iranic people managed to achieve.
We had a massive influence on everyone including europeans. What they were genetically doesnt matter
They were a mix of chg and ehg. what matters is their identity which you cant claim to be european
only iranians can all over the world.

[MS85]

Why do you keep bringing up Zoroastrians? Zoroastrianism is a religion. Which means it can be adopted by fucking anyone. this arguments means absolutely nothing.
You are just proving my point further more. Steppe ancestry in Iranians came after the Iranic migration to Iran.
Before the iranian migration, the natives who lived in Iran spoke elamite. We iranians are even taught this at our schools. The Iranian academia agrees and approves the concept of indo European migration into the Iranian plateau
We are taught that Persians and Medes migrated into Iran from Turkmenistan, from there, their ancestors were the andronovo.
There are tons of Iranian textbooks that describe this event very thoroughly.Because Zoroastrian Parsi were the original Persians before Islamisation of Iran and therefore closer to the ancietn Persians and closer to the source.

Iran was invaded by the Turco-Mongols and Arabs, but Parsi were still the unmixed original Persians who survived Islamisation. And those Parsi were even much more natives of the Iranian Plateau than current Persians. Those Parsi had much more Neo_Iran Plateau auDNA and there was no Steppes ancestry in them.

Iranian Plateau is HUGE. Elamites lived only in a small part next to the Persian Gulf. Sure, it is possible that Elamites were later Persianized by the Persians in Elam, but that doesn’t rule out at all that Iranic people came from the NorthWestern parts of the Iranian Plateau.

Ancient Turkmenistan = BMAC. And today we know the genetic profile of the BMAC. It was mostly Iranic. And has NOTHING to do with the Andronovo.



https://i.postimg.cc/C1c4hB63/map-elamite.jpg

[Kamal900]

Why do you keep bringing up Zoroastrians? Zoroastrianism is a religion. Which means it can be adopted by fucking anyone. this arguments means absolutely nothing.
You are just proving my point further more. Steppe ancestry in Iranians came after the Iranic migration to Iran.
Before the iranian migration, the natives who lived in Iran spoke elamite. We iranians are even taught this at our schools. The Iranian academia agrees and approves the concept of indo European migration into the Iranian plateau
We are taught that Persians and Medes migrated into Iran from Turkmenistan, from there, their ancestors were the andronovo.
There are tons of Iranian textbooks that describe this event very thoroughly.

Agreed. There were even Arab Zorastrians as well back in ancient times.

[MS85]

You folks don't even understand the basic stuff about the Aryans/Iranians.

You don't even understand that in Tajikistan live people like ethnic Tajiks who were Persians from Iran and Uzbeks
In Afghanistan live Tajiks, Uzbeks, Pashtun and some other folks.

Tajiks = speakers of Farsi = Persian
Uzbeks = Turkic people
Pashtun = mixed eastern Iranic people

It is most likely that those Uzbeks from the Steppe and related people to them brought Steppes ancestry into the SouthCentral Asia. And before them the Scythians. In 2000 years of time many migrations from the Steppes into SouthCentral Asia took place.

SouthCentral Asia of today is not really representative for the ancient Aryans at all


Afghanistan
https://i.postimg.cc/v8gc0xtc/Map-of-Languages-in-Districts-in-Afghanistan.jpg

[MS85]

In Tajikistan live even the ethnic RUSSIANS!!

https://i.postimg.cc/yNDH7cdR/7e111d75326d0ea68cb084cad20c435e.jpg

[MS85]

What I'm trying to say is that the original ARYAN people were PURE Iranic by auDNA.

Some minor Steppes ancestry arrived later with other races (Turkic groups, Slavic/Russian groups, Scythians/Massagetae) who came to SouthCentralAsia much later and due to minor geneflow.

[Babak]

Because Zoroastrian Parsi were the original Persians before Islamisation of Iran and therefore closer to the ancietn Persians and closer to the source.

Iran was invaded by the Turco-Mongols and Arabs, but Parsi were still the unmixed original Persians who survived Islamisation. And those Parsi were even much more natives of the Iranian Plateau than current Persians. Those Parsi had much more Neo_Iran Plateau auDNA and there was no Steppes ancestry in them.

Iranian Plateau is HUGE. Elamites lived only in a small part next to the Persian Gulf. Sure, it is possible that Elamites were later Persianized by the Persians in Elam, but that doesn’t rule out at all that Iranic people came from the NorthWestern parts of the Iranian Plateau.

Ancient Turkmenistan = BMAC. And today we know the genetic profile of the BMAC. It was mostly Iranic. And has NOTHING to do with the Andronovo.



https://i.postimg.cc/C1c4hB63/map-elamite.jpg

So then what was andronovo then? Iranians dont even cluster with Tajiks.

[MS85]

So then what was andronovo then?Original Andronovo was not Iranic at all. Most likely Mongoloid. Andronovo had a HUGE part of West Siberian HG related auDNA. Later Eastern Aryans from BMAC 'Iranized' Andronovo and those 'Iranized' Mongoloid people became known as the Scythians.


Andronov had NOTHING to do with the Original ARYANS. Andronovo was MONGOLOID, period!

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvr4K9YY/ace.jpg

[Fibonacci]

What I'm trying to say is that the original ARYAN people were PURE Iranic by auDNA.

Some minor Steppes ancestry arrived later with other races (Turkic groups, Slavic/Russian groups, Scythians/Massagetae) who came to SouthCentralAsia much later and due to minor geneflow.

The amount of garbage you spew is literally laughable. From now on talk about your own kind rather than involving the entire Iranian community into your mythical beliefs. You're definitely a troll. You sound like that turanist member on here who tried his hardest to claim that Saka were mongoloids. Lmao

[Zoro]

Andronovo or Sintashta never lived in the Iran area. We'll never see their bones in Iran. There were off course Alans, Sakas and Scythians and other Iron Age groups in the area though.

Also you just can't jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age. There were no pure Andronovans or Sintashtans in the Iron Age. Therefore the steppe admixture in Persians and Kurds and other Iranics and R1a that was introduced in the Iron Age and later must have been by Alans, Sakas, Scythians and other Iron Age groups and also by some more recent migrations from the steppe.

Anyone with half a brain can see what the guy at Eurogenes blog and some idiots at Anthrogenica are preaching is bullshit because there were no pure Andronovans and Sintashtans in the Iron Age and especially in the Iran vicinity in the Iron Age. The steppe groups that were in the area in the Iron Age were Alans, Sakas, Scythians and some others. Therefore they are the ones who are relevant.

The reason that the Eurogenes blogger keep pushing Bronze Age groups and pretends that we can jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age or the Medieval period is because he wants to make it seem that Europeans dominated our Iranic women and conquered us because Andronovo and Sintashta are a little more European than Sakas, Alans and Scythians and other Iron Age and Medieval steppe groups in our area. Even though I would not consider Andronovo and Sintashta as 100% pure European.

[Fibonacci]

Andronovo or Sintashta never lived in the Iran area. We'll never see their bones in Iran. There were off course Alans, Sakas and Scythians and other Iron Age groups in the area though.

Also you just can't jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age. There were no pure Andronovans or Sintashtans in the Iron Age. Therefore the steppe admixture in Persians and Kurds and other Iranics and R1a that was introduced in the Iron Age and later must have been by Alans, Sakas, Scythians and other Iron Age groups and also by some more recent migrations from the steppe.

Anyone with half a brain can see what the guy at Eurogenes blog and some idiots at Anthrogenica are preaching is bullshit because there were no pure Andronovans and Sintashtans in the Iron Age and especially in the Iran vicinity in the Iron Age. The steppe groups that were in the area in the Iron Age were Alans, Sakas, Scythians and some others. Therefore they are the ones who are relevant.

The reason that the Eurogenes blogger keep pushing Bronze Age groups and pretends that we can jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age or the Medieval period is because he wants to make it seem that Europeans dominated our Iranic women and conquered us because Andronovo and Sintashta are a little more European than Sakas, Alans and Scythians and other Iron Age and Medieval steppe groups in our area. Even though I would not consider Andronovo and Sintashta as 100% pure European.

I don't consider any of those groups you mentioned European. Not by identity nor genetics. They were all mixed to shit long before that. Most of proto Iranians were already a mix of a CHG before they migrated into Iran anyway. A person with 40% northern European ancestry and 60% non European is never considered a true European by any European. That's your average Scythian. You will never have people considering half Asian/European peoples as true Europeans. Neither were the scythians or proto Iranians

What this guy is doing is changing the entire history by falsifying events.the steppe admixture in Iranians doesn't only come from scythians. It comes from the early migrations and mixing between Iranians and neolithic farmers of Iran. Which is why millions of Iranians have steppe admixtures. If millions of people have steppe admixtures then it's obvious that it happened from the very beginning of Iran's population, long before the scythians came along.

the scythians never managed to defeat and invade the Persian Empire. Infact, the Persians had Scythian warriors amongst their battalions. The scythians only managed to raid the Azerbaijan area of Iran, they never had the opportunity to leave any genetic markers on all Iranians. It is clear where the steppe admixtures in Iranians comes from and it's not the scythians

[Babak]

I don't consider any of those groups you mentioned European. Not by identity nor genetics. They were all mixed to shit long before that. Most of proto Iranians were already a mix of a CHG before they migrated into Iran anyway.

What this guy is doing is changing the entire history by falsifying events.the steppe admixture in Iranians doesn't only come from scythians. It comes from the early migrations and mixing between Iranians and neolithic farmers of Iran. Which is why millions of Iranians have steppe admixtures. If millions of people have steppe admixtures then it's obvious that it happened from the very beginning of Iran's population, long before the scythians came along.

the scythians never managed to defeat and invade the Persian Empire. Infact, the Persians had Scythian warriors amongst their battalions. The scythians only managed to raid the Azerbaijan area of Iran, they never had the opportunity to leave any genetic markers on all Iranians. It is clear where the steppe admixtures in Iranians comes from and it's not the scythians

Actually Iron age Iranians had some NE-Europe before Iranics migrated into Iran. Bronze age Iranics had a bit more. Modern Iranians are closer to Early Iranics than Northern europeans are.

Iron Age Iran, Hasanlu (Naqadeh):



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 48.85
2 SW_Europe 23.02
3 SW_Asia 16.17
4 NE_Europe 10.71
5 South_Asia 1.25

https://i.ibb.co/SNr1Z3K/Iran.jpg

[Zoro]

You sound like that turanist member on here who tried his hardest to claim that Saka were mongoloids. Lmao

I agree with you. Saka language is related to Persian And Kurdish and not Turkish. These show that it is most related to Kurdish, Persian, and Avestan, then Pashto and Ossetian and NOT related to Turkish. The lower the number the more related.

https://i.imgur.com/DGWAxBU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N33bTbl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GB3nWaM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8DrT1To.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Qt9F3m6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HzlGySO.jpg

[Zoro]

I don't consider any of those groups you mentioned European. Not by identity nor genetics. They were all mixed to shit long before that. Most of proto Iranians were already a mix of a CHG before they migrated into Iran anyway. A person with 40% northern European ancestry and 60% non European is never considered a true European by any European. That's your average Scythian. You will never have people considering half Asian/European peoples as true Europeans. Neither were the scythians or proto Iranians

What this guy is doing is changing the entire history by falsifying events.the steppe admixture in Iranians doesn't only come from scythians. It comes from the early migrations and mixing between Iranians and neolithic farmers of Iran. Which is why millions of Iranians have steppe admixtures. If millions of people have steppe admixtures then it's obvious that it happened from the very beginning of Iran's population, long before the scythians came along.

the scythians never managed to defeat and invade the Persian Empire. Infact, the Persians had Scythian warriors amongst their battalions. The scythians only managed to raid the Azerbaijan area of Iran, they never had the opportunity to leave any genetic markers on all Iranians. It is clear where the steppe admixtures in Iranians comes from and it's not the scythians

Exactly, so that's why the Eurogenes guy and some of the Anthrogenica clowns keep pushing Andronovo and Sintashta even though they never on the borders of Iran nor did they even exist in the Iron Age. Their thinking is because Andronovo and Sintashta are more Europeans. He always uses them in his G25 yet I never see them use Alans, Scythians or Sakas to model West and South Asians even though they produce much better fit when combined with Native Zagrosian Iranians than Sintashta and Andronovo produce. Pretty absurd.

The Pathians had incorporated alot of Saka and I believe some of the Parthians were in fact Sakas.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire
http://www.ancientpages.com/2016/11/10/parthians-their-great-empire-and-skilled-horse-archers/
http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/saka/index.htm

[Fibonacci]

Exactly, so that's why the Eurogenes guy and some of the Anthrogenica clowns keep pushing Andronovo and Sintashta even though they never on the borders of Iran nor did they even exist in the Iron Age. Their thinking is because Andronovo and Sintashta are more Europeans. He always uses them in his G25 yet I never see them use Alans, Scythians or Sakas to model West and South Asians even though they produce much better fit when combined with Native Zagrosian Iranians than Sintashta and Andronovo produce. Pretty absurd.

The Pathians had incorporated alot of Saka and I believe some of the Parthians were in fact Sakas.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire
http://www.ancientpages.com/2016/11/10/parthians-their-great-empire-and-skilled-horse-archers/
http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/saka/index.htm

Even if andronovo and sintashta wasn't near Iran, it doesn't discredit their Iranic identity. Iran as a country is not the native land of the Iranic identity. It never originated in west Asia but the steppe. All Iranian language can be traced back to andronovo and sintashta. Persian didn't originate in Iran, it entered Iran from the north and evolved. Avesta which Persian itself derives from, is an eastern Iranian language. The same thing happened to kurdish and other western Iranian languages. Andronovo and sintashta marks the origins of Iranian identity.

For example, the similarities between what the scythians wore and the Persians is remarkable. And these 2 communities never intermixed with one another. Based on pictures and artifacts the Greeks and scythians themselves left behind, they wore the same clothing with the same patterns as the Persian soliders.

[MS85]

Andronovo or Sintashta never lived in the Iran area. We'll never see their bones in Iran. There were off course Alans, Sakas and Scythians and other Iron Age groups in the area though.

Also you just can't jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age. There were no pure Andronovans or Sintashtans in the Iron Age. Therefore the steppe admixture in Persians and Kurds and other Iranics and R1a that was introduced in the Iron Age and later must have been by Alans, Sakas, Scythians and other Iron Age groups and also by some more recent migrations from the steppe.

Anyone with half a brain can see what the guy at Eurogenes blog and some idiots at Anthrogenica are preaching is bullshit because there were no pure Andronovans and Sintashtans in the Iron Age and especially in the Iran vicinity in the Iron Age. The steppe groups that were in the area in the Iron Age were Alans, Sakas, Scythians and some others. Therefore they are the ones who are relevant.

The reason that the Eurogenes blogger keep pushing Bronze Age groups and pretends that we can jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age or the Medieval period is because he wants to make it seem that Europeans dominated our Iranic women and conquered us because Andronovo and Sintashta are a little more European than Sakas, Alans and Scythians and other Iron Age and Medieval steppe groups in our area. Even though I would not consider Andronovo and Sintashta as 100% pure European.

Those clowns were also denying that Yamnaya was founded by West Asians until important studies came out.
Those clowns also claimed first that Hittites were ‘Northern Europeans’ until recent studies killed their dreams.

Those clowns are wrong about EVERYTHING!

[MS85]

The amount of garbage you spew is literally laughable. From now on talk about your own kind rather than involving the entire Iranian community into your mythical beliefs. You're definitely a troll. You sound like that turanist member on here who tried his hardest to claim that Saka were mongoloids. Lmao
You are a comedian. Show me anything that Iranian language can be traced back to Andronovo. Andronovo were illiterate bunch of monkeys that left nothing. They were full of Mongoloid auDNA and it is much more likely that they spoke a some form of a Mongoloid language before they were Iranised by BMAC and became known as Scythians.

You are not very smart person and your knowledge is very low. I knew that Azeri were not that smart. Azeri were the stupidest people in Georgia. But you exceed all my expectation.


Here is the last study about Saka: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3346985

[MS85]

Even if andronovo and sintashta wasn't near Iran, it doesn't discredit their Iranic identity. Iran as a country is not the native land of the Iranic identity. It never originated in west Asia but the steppe. All Iranian language can be traced back to andronovo and sintashta. Persian didn't originate in Iran, it entered Iran from the north and evolved. Avesta which Persian itself derives from, is an eastern Iranian language. The same thing happened to kurdish and other western Iranian languages. Andronovo and sintashta marks the origins of Iranian identity.

For example, the similarities between what the scythians wore and the Persians is remarkable. And these 2 communities never intermixed with one another. Based on pictures and artifacts the Greeks and scythians themselves left behind, they wore the same clothing with the same patterns as the Persian soliders.Most retard comment I ever read.

Kurdish is a North-western Iranian language that has been evolved in Kurdistan and nowhere else. It is only spoken in Kurdistan. Kurdish has ergativity and ergative construction is native to Kurdistan. Ergativity doesn't exists in the Steppes at all. Not in 1 million years Kurdish as NorthWest Iranian language evolved outside Kurdistan.

Kurds are the original people who speak their own ARYAN mother tongue.

[MS85]

that's why the Eurogenes guy and some of the Anthrogenica clowns keep pushingThe Eurogenes guy is a moron. Modern science destroyed all of his moronic dreams.


no one of them can explain why there is no ERGATIVIY in the Steppes, while Indo-Iranian had ergative construction.

[Babak]

The Eurogenes guy is a moron. Modern science destroyed all of his moronic dreams.


no one of them can explain why there is no ERGATIVIY in the Steppes, while Indo-Iranian had ergative construction.

Can you explain this diagram?

https://i.ibb.co/SNr1Z3K/Iran.jpg

[Joso]

Very nice thread

[Zoro]

Even if andronovo and sintashta wasn't near Iran, it doesn't discredit their Iranic identity. Iran as a country is not the native land of the Iranic identity. It never originated in west Asia but the steppe. All Iranian language can be traced back to andronovo and sintashta. Persian didn't originate in Iran, it entered Iran from the north and evolved. Avesta which Persian itself derives from, is an eastern Iranian language. The same thing happened to kurdish and other western Iranian languages. Andronovo and sintashta marks the origins of Iranian identity.

For example, the similarities between what the scythians wore and the Persians is remarkable. And these 2 communities never intermixed with one another. Based on pictures and artifacts the Greeks and scythians themselves left behind, they wore the same clothing with the same patterns as the Persian soliders.

Yes, I understand that the language Iranians speak now may have originated with Sintashta and Andronovo but genetically their contribution to modern Kurds and Iranians is very limited and any genetic contribution they would have to modern Kurds and Iranians would be through Iron Age steppe nomads such as Alans, Sarmatians, Saka and the like, but probably 50% of the genetic contribution for Kurds and other Iranians would of course be the native Zagrosian pastoralists and like you said the rest of the genetic contribution would be from Central Asia via the BMAC farmers and Iron Age steppe nomads and some later Turkic admixture.

In fact the guy at Eurasiandna.com did an analysis of this not using the Eurogenes amateurish G25 nmonte but with the Admixtools qpAdm that researchers use in scientific papers ( I haven't seen a single scientific paper use G25 nmonte). What he found out when he tried to model Kurds ( other Iranians and Azeris would be included as they are our very close cousins) with strictly Sintashta and Iran Chl is that Sintashta was missing some ingredients that modern Iranians have and the models with strictly Iran Chl + Sintashta failed.
Passing models in papers generally show a p-value greater than 0.05.
https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/

https://i.imgur.com/301FI8B.jpg


But when he modeled Iranians with qpAdm using Iran Chl + Saka , the models passed very well because Saka had some of those ingredients that modern Iranians have that Sintashta didn't have

https://i.imgur.com/qd30QGc.jpg


I believe the Iran Chl would be even lower if he had used BMAC + Iran Chl + Saka

[Zoro]

Those clowns were also denying that Yamnaya was founded by West Asians until important studies came out.
Those clowns also claimed first that Hittites were ‘Northern Europeans’ until recent studies killed their dreams.

Those clowns are wrong about EVERYTHING!

Yeah I vaguely remember that he was trying to even shit on David Reich when Reich had either talked about Yamnaya's West Asian half being south of the Caucasus around Iran or proto Indo European coming from there. Someone might remember. Everything revolves around East Europe for him.

[Zoro]

Can you explain this diagram?

https://i.ibb.co/SNr1Z3K/Iran.jpg

It shows modern Iranians very close to Iran Chl but shifted in the direction of the steppe but interestingly Iron Age steppe nomads are missing from the PCA. In general PCAs are very rough tools just to give a very general idea of how things look like and its hard to make accurate conclusions based on them for many reasons. They can also be misleading because they only show 2 dimensions at a time. I bet on the other dimensions of the PCA if you plot them Iranians would be quiet far from Iran Chl because Iran Chl doesn't have something that modern Iranians have which is quiet a bit of East Eurasian.

I have also read that ancient samples have quiet a bit of DNA damage and are not diploid samples like modern people and this skews the results too.

[MS85]

Can you explain this diagram?

https://i.ibb.co/SNr1Z3K/Iran.jpgWho made this and where is this from? What is the source of the naming?

[Babak]

It shows modern Iranians very close to Iran Chl but shifted in the direction of the steppe but interestingly Iron Age steppe nomads are missing from the PCA. In general PCAs are very rough tools just to give a very general idea of how things look like and its hard to make accurate conclusions based on them for many reasons. They can also be misleading because they only show 2 dimensions at a time. I bet on the other dimensions of the PCA if you plot them Iranians would be quiet far from Iran Chl because Iran Chl doesn't have something that modern Iranians have which is quiet a bit of East Eurasian.

I have also read that ancient samples have quiet a bit of DNA damage and are not diploid samples like modern people and this skews the results too.

Yea I was trying to see if he can accurately explain what it shows. Nomadic Iron age herders were mostly likely still pretty close to Early Iranics considering the amount of steppe.

[Arhat]

Andronovo or Sintashta never lived in the Iran area. We'll never see their bones in Iran. There were off course Alans, Sakas and Scythians and other Iron Age groups in the area though.

Also you just can't jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age. There were no pure Andronovans or Sintashtans in the Iron Age. Therefore the steppe admixture in Persians and Kurds and other Iranics and R1a that was introduced in the Iron Age and later must have been by Alans, Sakas, Scythians and other Iron Age groups and also by some more recent migrations from the steppe.

Anyone with half a brain can see what the guy at Eurogenes blog and some idiots at Anthrogenica are preaching is bullshit because there were no pure Andronovans and Sintashtans in the Iron Age and especially in the Iran vicinity in the Iron Age. The steppe groups that were in the area in the Iron Age were Alans, Sakas, Scythians and some others. Therefore they are the ones who are relevant.

The reason that the Eurogenes blogger keep pushing Bronze Age groups and pretends that we can jump from the Bronze Age to the present without going through the Iron Age or the Medieval period is because he wants to make it seem that Europeans dominated our Iranic women and conquered us because Andronovo and Sintashta are a little more European than Sakas, Alans and Scythians and other Iron Age and Medieval steppe groups in our area. Even though I would not consider Andronovo and Sintashta as 100% pure European.

There is zero linguistical or archaelogical evidence for this. Saka probably had a very limited genetic impact outside of the steppes, Most steppe ancestry in West and South Asia predates Saka.

Steppe ancestry to West Asia was brought by people similar to Turkmenistan_IA which were Pamiri-like and around 50% Sintashta and 50% BMAC. So using them as reference Kurds probably have around 30-40% early IA_Iranian ancestry from Central Asia

[Arhat]

Yes, I understand that the language Iranians speak now may have originated with Sintashta and Andronovo but genetically their contribution to modern Kurds and Iranians is very limited and any genetic contribution they would have to modern Kurds and Iranians would be through Iron Age steppe nomads such as Alans, Sarmatians, Saka and the like, but probably 50% of the genetic contribution for Kurds and other Iranians would of course be the native Zagrosian pastoralists and like you said the rest of the genetic contribution would be from Central Asia via the BMAC farmers and Iron Age steppe nomads and some later Turkic admixture.

In fact the guy at Eurasiandna.com did an analysis of this not using the Eurogenes amateurish G25 nmonte but with the Admixtools qpAdm that researchers use in scientific papers ( I haven't seen a single scientific paper use G25 nmonte). What he found out when he tried to model Kurds ( other Iranians and Azeris would be included as they are our very close cousins) with strictly Sintashta and Iran Chl is that Sintashta was missing some ingredients that modern Iranians have and the models with strictly Iran Chl + Sintashta failed.
Passing models in papers generally show a p-value greater than 0.05.
https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/

https://i.imgur.com/301FI8B.jpg


But when he modeled Iranians with qpAdm using Iran Chl + Saka , the models passed very well because Saka had some of those ingredients that modern Iranians have that Sintashta didn't have

https://i.imgur.com/qd30QGc.jpg


I believe the Iran Chl would be even lower if he had used BMAC + Iran Chl + Saka

This analyze is bullshit and the sam guy claimed that Pashtuns have significant kurdish admixture lol

[Arhat]

Original Andronovo was not Iranic at all. Most likely Mongoloid. Andronovo had a HUGE part of West Siberian HG related auDNA. Later Eastern Aryans from BMAC 'Iranized' Andronovo and those 'Iranized' Mongoloid people became known as the Scythians.


Andronov had NOTHING to do with the Original ARYANS. Andronovo was MONGOLOID, period!

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvr4K9YY/ace.jpg

Well the facts dont change because you dont like them. You are just butthurt because history and genetics are not supporting your nationalist fantasy tales about "muh pur great Aryan ancestors". Andronovo had only mongolid admixture in the peripheral regions and early Andronovo/Sintashta was zero mongolid. Probably less mongolid than you and modern day West Asians. Also R1a-Z93 is the primarmy marker of Aryans and please dont try to deny that because you dont have R1a. R1a is an Indo-European marker and was found in Andronovo and Corded Ware but was absent in West Asia and Central Asia prior to the Iron Age/Late Bronze Age

[MS85]

Yeah I vaguely remember that he was trying to even shit on David Reich when Reich had either talked about Yamnaya's West Asian half being south of the Caucasus around Iran or proto Indo European coming from there. Someone might remember. Everything revolves around East Europe for him.Not only him. Everybody is ethnocentric. Persians and other Iranians are getting a heart tack when we show them the evidence that the Kurds are the 'purest' Iranians. Even those from Afghanistan and Tajikistan who are hugely mixed with Turkic people (Uzbeks, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Turkmen etc.) want to compete with the Kurds on who is more 'Iranic', lol.

Those who claim that Andronovo was Indo-Iranian, they have 0 evidence. There is absolutely nothing that shows into that direction.

Actually Indo-Iranian are at least as old as the Hittites and the Hittites PREDATE Yamnaya. That means that Indo-Iranian also PREDATE Yamnaya. Actually I have many evidences that show that I'm (as follower of Ivanov) right big time. When I have seen the DNA of the Hittites I was very exited. Because those Hittites were J2a folks and had no Yamnaya ancestry.

Hittites were Anatolian Indo-Europeans. Anatolian IEans were closely related to Indo-Iranians. According to Graeco-Aryan thypthsesi, proto-Hellenic, proto-Hittite and proto-Indo-Iranian had the same source. Since we have evidence tha the Hitties were form West Asia, we can easly assume that Indo-Iranian was not far from it.

When I saw the results from BMAC I knew for 1000% that Ivanov was right. It was the last nail into the coffin of the Steppists.

There is 0 evidence that early Andronovo was Indo-Iranian, but we have got many evidences that BMAC was 'Iranic'. BMAC was studied by many scholar and all the MAJOR scholars on BMAC, like Viktor Sarianidi, agree that BMAC was related to the Iranic people. BMAC DNA was fully Aryan/Iranic and those BMAC Aryans belonged to many different haplogroups like hg. E, G, J2, L, R, T


Viktor Sarianidi

https://i.postimg.cc/DwDjP8qd/bronze-age-margiana-gonur-1024x683-zi7.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1S7pJLH3c

[MS85]

Well the facts dont change because you dont like them. You are just butthurt because history and genetics are not supporting your nationalist fantasy tales about "muh pur great Aryan ancestors". Andronovo had only mongolid admixture in the peripheral regions and early Andronovo/Sintashta was zero mongolid. Probably less mongolid than you and modern day West Asians. Also R1a-Z93 is the primarmy marker of Aryans and please dont try to deny that because you dont have R1a. R1a is an Indo-European marker and was found in Andronovo and Corded Ware but was absent in West Asia and Central Asia prior to the Iron Age/Late Bronze AgeNo, actually earliest Andronovo was purely Mongoloid, with West Siberian HG related. And only later it was influenced by the Yamnaya and became more 'western'. Later on it was influenced again, but this time by AYANS from the BMAC. Those Aryans from BMAC 'Iranised' Steppe people who later became known as East Iranian Saka people.

There is simply 0 evidence that Andronovo spoke Indo-Iranian. While many scientists do related BMAC to the Aryans.


Watch this video on BMAC!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1S7pJLH3c

[Babak]

Not only him. Everybody is ethnocentric. Persians and other Iranians are getting a heart tack when we show them the evidence that the Kurds are the 'purest' Iranians. Even those from Afghanistan and Tajikistan who are hugely mixed with Turkic people (Uzbeks, Kazakh, Kirgiz, Turkmen etc.) want to compete with the Kurds on who is more 'Iranic', lol.

Those who claim that Andronovo was Indo-Iranian, they have 0 evidence. There is absolutely nothing that shows that direction.

Actually Indo-Iranian are at least as old as the Hittites and the Hittites PREDATE Yamnaya. That means that Indo-Iranian also PREDATE Yamnaya.

Actually I have many evidences that show that I’m (as follower of Ivanov) right big time. When I have seen the DNA of the Hittites I was very exited. Because those Hittites were J2a folks and had no Yamnaya ancestry.

Hittites were Anatolian Indo-Europeans. Anatolian IEans were closely related to Indo-Iranians.
According to Graeco-Aryan thypthsesi, proto-Hellenic, proto-Hittite and proto-Indo-Iranian had the same source. Since we have evidence tha the Hitties were form West Asia, we can easly assume that Indo-Iranian was not far from it.

When I saw the results from BMAC I knew for 1000% that Ivanov was right. It was the last nail into the coffin of the Steppists.

There is 0 evidence that early Andronovo was Indo-Iranian, but we have got many evidences that BMAC was 'Iranic'. BMAC was studied by many scholar and all the MAJOR scholars on BMAC, like Viktor Sarianidi, agree that BMAC was related to the Iranic people.

BMAC DNA was fully Aryan/Iranic and those BMAC Aryans belonged to many different haplogroups like hg. E, G, J2, L, R, T


Viktor Sarianidi

https://i.postimg.cc/DwDjP8qd/bronze-age-margiana-gonur-1024x683-zi7.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1S7pJLH3c

Jesus dude..

[Voskos]

Not a fan of genetics anymore tbh, but if the majority is indus valley, doesnt that make them pred. Asian and not nordic? I dont deny that they have substantial northeast european admixture, you have a point there ofc.

[MS85]

ARYANS from BMAC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXBAGnKFd7E

[MS85]

Also R1a-Z93 is the primarmy marker of Aryans and please dont try to deny that because you dont have R1a. R1a is an Indo-European marker and was found in Andronovo and Corded Ware but was absent in West Asia and Central Asia prior to the Iron Age/Late Bronze AgeDude, I'm R1a*. My haplogroup is daddy of all modern R1a, hahaha.

But R1a was not even Indo-European at the first place. R1a in the Western Steppes was Indo-Europeanised by R1b folks from Yamnaya.


But no, like the Hittites and the Mycenaeans ARYANS were J2a folks. The ARYAN Medes were mostly J2a folks, since there is a lot J2a in the ancient Aryan lands of the Medes.

[MS85]

About my R1a*


https://i.postimg.cc/XYpBdgcq/a.png
https://i.postimg.cc/vBL4b2Mq/b.jpg

[Zoro]

This analyze is bullshit and the sam guy claimed that Pashtuns have significant kurdish admixture lol

Haha nice try friend of Eurogenes. The analysis was based on qpAdm which is used in most scientific papers unlike Eurogenes G25 nmonte which no one uses in the scientific community. So you are saying that qpAdm is bullshit and all the scientific papers that use it. Nice try....educate yourself

[Token]

This is something I find peculiar. They come on European forums, they come to live in European countries, they suck up to Europeans often, yet they're so offended at the idea that Europeans founded much of their culture and contributed to their ancestry? If you're so proud, fuck off back.

Europeans are too peaceful. Just imagine if it was the other way around, with Europeans going to live in Iran. Things would surely be very different.

[MS85]

Europeans are too peaceful. Just imagine if it was the other way around, with Europeans going to live in Iran. Things would surely be very different.
Well, it is a well-known fact the Aryan Medes exterminated the Scythian elite baboons in Kurdistan.

[Zoro]

There is zero linguistical or archaelogical evidence for this. Saka probably had a very limited genetic impact outside of the steppes, Most steppe ancestry in West and South Asia predates Saka.

Steppe ancestry to West Asia was brought by people similar to Turkmenistan_IA which were Pamiri-like and around 50% Sintashta and 50% BMAC. So using them as reference Kurds probably have around 30-40% early IA_Iranian ancestry from Central Asia


Nice try again do you even know who the Parthians or Alans were?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/alans-an-ancient-iranian-tribe-of-the-northern-scythian-saka-sarmatian-massagete-group-known-to-classical-writers-from


Next time post something to back up what you say friend of Eurogenes. what do you call this lingusitic comparison?

https://i.imgur.com/d69KKxJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rkkxiD8.png


I agree with you. Saka language is related to Persian And Kurdish and not Turkish. These show that it is most related to Kurdish, Persian, and Avestan, then Pashto and Ossetian and NOT related to Turkish. The lower the number the more related.

https://i.imgur.com/DGWAxBU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N33bTbl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GB3nWaM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8DrT1To.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Qt9F3m6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HzlGySO.jpg



Did you even know that Saqqez in Iranian Kurdistan was the political capital of Saka or Sistan province in Eastern Iran is Saqistan or the land of Saka?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqez


The Kurds and their Iranian ancestors have lived in Saqqez and its surrounding area since about 1000 BC. By the mid-seventh century BC the Scythians reached their zenith in western Asia under Bartatua, and the Saqqez region was their political center.[3] During the pre-Islamic era Saqqez and its surrounding area made up a small country, Sagapeni, believed to be related to the ancient Iranian Sakas (Scythians) from which the city's name derives. Saqqez has two parts: historic and new.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistan


Sīstān (Persian: سیستان), known in ancient times as Sakastan (Persian: سكستان; "the land of the Saka"), is a historical and geographical region in present-day eastern Iran (Sistan and Baluchestan Province) and southern Afghanistan (Nimruz, Kandahar)

Here is some info on archeology to help you out;
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/

[MS85]

@Zoro, http://elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx is an interesting site. Never heard of it before thanks.

Interesting to see that the distance between Persian to Saka is just a little bit closer (44.3 ) than distance between Kurdish to Saka (45.9 or 43.8)

When I'm doing Saka - Kurdish it is 43.8
When I'm doing Kurdish - Saka it is 45.9

WHY?


Distance between Kurdish and Persian is only 35.4, nice!


Again,

Persian - Kurdish = 33.5
but Kurdish - Persian = 35.4

WHY??

[Fibonacci]

Not a fan of genetics anymore tbh, but if the majority is indus valley, doesnt that make them pred. Asian and not nordic? I dont deny that they have substantial northeast european admixture, you have a point there ofc.

Exactly, if token thinks proto Iranians were purely European then I think he should accept half Negros half Europeans into his families bloodline.
Anyone in here who believes that scythians or proto Europeans were purely European then they should also consider mulatto negros as Europeans. They were all mixed, none of them were purely European. Fucking retards

[Zoro]

@Zoro, http://elinguistics.net/Compare_Languages.aspx is an interesting site. Never heard of it before thanks.

Interesting to see that the distance between Persian to Saka is just a little bit closer (44.3 ) than distance between Kurdish to Saka (45.9 or 43.8)

When I'm doing Saka - Kurdish it is 43.8
When I'm doing Kurdish - Saka it is 45.9

WHY?


Distance between Kurdish and Persian is only 35.4, nice!


Again,

Persian - Kurdish = 33.5
but Kurdish - Persian = 35.4

WHY??

Not sure, maybe because they use a different set of words when they compare Persian-Kurdish vs Kurdish-Persian

[Zoro]

Exactly, if token thinks proto Iranians were purely European then I think he should accept half Negros half Europeans into his families bloodline.
Anyone in here who believes that scythians or proto Europeans were purely European then they should also consider mulatto negros as Europeans. They were all mixed, none of them were purely European. Fucking retards

yep. I'm trying to dig up an IBS comparison I had copied from somewhere where they compared different Sarmatians and Saka to Europeans and Iranians. They were halfway in between Iranians and Europeans, but here is the important thing. Much of the closeness to Europeans was because they shared alleles with the 8000 year old EHG, but the closeness of Sarmatians and Saka to Iranians was because of more recent alleles shared. So I guess one can say that Sarmatians and Saka have an older connection to Europeans and a more recent connection to Iranians. I'll see if I can find it. Btw, the mytrueancestry.com ancient analysis is a little retarded too.

[Arhat]

Dude, I'm R1a*. My haplogroup is daddy of all modern R1a, hahaha.

But R1a was not even Indo-European at the first place. R1a in the Western Steppes was Indo-Europeanised by R1b folks from Yamnaya.


But no, like the Hittites and the Mycenaeans ARYANS were J2a folks. The ARYAN Medes were mostly J2a folks, since there is a lot J2a in the ancient Aryan lands of the Medes.

well if this is true you have a basal clade but that does not mean it is ancestral at all. The daddy of all R1a died long ago so dont talk bullshit again. R1a* just means you have a rare clade not that your clade is older.

[Arhat]

Nice try again do you even know who the Parthians or Alans were?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/alans-an-ancient-iranian-tribe-of-the-northern-scythian-saka-sarmatian-massagete-group-known-to-classical-writers-from


Next time post something to back up what you say friend of Eurogenes. what do you call this lingusitic comparison?

https://i.imgur.com/d69KKxJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rkkxiD8.png





Did you even know that Saqqez in Iranian Kurdistan was the political capital of Saka or Sistan province in Eastern Iran is Saqistan or the land of Saka?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqez

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistan


Here is some info on archeology to help you out;
http://landofkarda.blogspot.com/2010/

Kurdish is a northwestern Iranic language and Saka a northeastern Iranic language. Saka in Central Asia died out but Jaghobi a neo-sogdian language survived. Sarmatian is still spoken today in the Caucasus among Ossetians. Kurdish has nothing to do with it and after jaghnobi and Ossetian Pamiri and Pashto are closest to Saka.

[Arhat]

yep. I'm trying to dig up an IBS comparison I had copied from somewhere where they compared different Sarmatians and Saka to Europeans and Iranians. They were halfway in between Iranians and Europeans, but here is the important thing. Much of the closeness to Europeans was because they shared alleles with the 8000 year old EHG, but the closeness of Sarmatians and Saka to Iranians was because of more recent alleles shared. So I guess one can say that Sarmatians and Saka have an older connection to Europeans and a more recent connection to Iranians. I'll see if I can find it. Btw, the mytrueancestry.com ancient analysis is a little retarded too.

well explain me why Pamiri have around 40-50% Sintashta/Bronze Age Euro ancestry and Pashtuns around 30%. And why Jatts and Brahmins also have this kind of ancestry. Brahmins did not mix with foreigner after the Iron Age so where they got this european admixture?

[Token]

Exactly, if token thinks proto Iranians were purely European then I think he should accept half Negros half Europeans into his families bloodline.
Anyone in here who believes that scythians or proto Europeans were purely European then they should also consider mulatto negros as Europeans. They were all mixed, none of them were purely European. Fucking retards

Are you dumb? Sintashta was Proto-Iranian, and they were fully European as i showed in the second page of this same thread. Just stop dude, everything i see coming from your fingers is dumb.

[Arhat]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.

well Sintashta was 75% North Euro-like and not identical to modern day North Europeans. They were a bit less EEF-shifted. But they would be closest to modern day North Europeans. Their pigmentation was actually much darker. They had mostly brown hair and brown eyes. But a significant minority with lighter hair and blue eyes. So they were in terms of pigmentation closer to balkan people or Central Europeans than to North Europeans. Light phenotypes seem to correlate with GAC-like ancestry and there was also massive selection for it which made modern day North Europeans so light haired and eyed.

[MS85]

well if this is true you have a basal clade but that does not mean it is ancestral at all. The daddy of all R1a died long ago so dont talk bullshit again. R1a* just means you have a rare clade not that your clade is older.What is true? That I'm R1a* lol. Well, my R1a* is rare and unique because I'm not a product of mass rape. R1a in Kurdish population is very divers what means that our R1a is NOT a product of mass rape or a bottlenecked elite dominance like in other places. Diverse R1a is very fair distributed among other haplogroups, like J2a in Kurdistan.

I know that my R1a* is very rare to have a name, but it is also a fact that it didn't evolve from modern major bottlenecked R1a's. It has its own different history on his native areas of Kurdistan.

Of course my R1a* is a modern one of our age, but it is evolved from someone who predate M417.

[MS85]

well explain me why Pamiri have around 40-50% Sintashta/Bronze Age Euro ancestry and Pashtuns around 30%. And why Jatts and Brahmins also have this kind of ancestry. Brahmins did not mix with foreigner after the Iron Age so where they got this european admixture?Because they have the most of the so called Eastern Iranic 'Saka'/Dahae & Massagetae and other 'Mongoloid' Central Asian ancestry.

That auDNA entered India only after 1500BC with the East Iranian Scythians. Indo-Iranian is much, much older than 1500BC.

[Token]

Because they have the most of the so called Eastern Iranic 'Saka'/Dahae & Massagetae and other 'Mongoloid' Central Asian ancestry.

That auDNA entered India only after 1500BC with the East Iranian Scythians. Indo-Iranian is much, much older than 1500BC.

MUH VERY OLD INDO-IRANIAN

https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1506/27/1506274633541.png

[MS85]

Because they have the most of the so called Eastern Iranic 'Saka'/Dahae & Massagetae and other 'Mongoloid' Central Asian ancestry.

That auDNA entered India only after 1500BC with the East Iranian Scythians. Indo-Iranian is much, much older than 1500BC.Aryan BMAC PREDATE those people. And BMAC even predates the Andronovo Horizon

[Zoro]

well explain me why Pamiri have around 40-50% Sintashta/Bronze Age Euro ancestry and Pashtuns around 30%. And why Jatts and Brahmins also have this kind of ancestry. Brahmins did not mix with foreigner after the Iron Age so where they got this european admixture?

Look no one is denying that Sintashta/Andronovo is a distant ancestor to Iranics, but they are one of many and their link is not even direct. There were no pure Sintashtans or Andronovans around who mixed with native Iranics 1000 or 2000 years ago. So their link to us is via the Iron Age and later steppe nomads who are more relevant to us Iranics. Also, if you post the exact analysis you got those numbers from I can give you more specific answers.


Kurdish has nothing to do with it and after jaghnobi and Ossetian Pamiri and Pashto are closest to Saka.

I think its pointless even discussing this with you since you clearly did not pay any attention to the genetic, linguistic and archeological evidence I posted on the previous page

[MS85]

MUH VERY OLD INDO-IRANIANI don't know what is your native language, Hebrew, Assyrian or German, but my native ARYAN language (family group) is at least much older than your language.

[Arhat]

Because they have the most of the so called Eastern Iranic 'Saka'/Dahae & Massagetae and other 'Mongoloid' Central Asian ancestry.

That auDNA entered India only after 1500BC with the East Iranian Scythians. Indo-Iranian is much, much older than 1500BC.

No Brahmins have also this ancestry and they have R1a-L657 which Saka lacked and obviously not mixed with Saka.

[Kamal900]

Look no one is denying that Sintashta/Andronovo is a distant ancestor to Iranics, but they are one of many and their link is not even direct. There were no pure Sintashtans or Andronovans around who mixed with native Iranics 1000 or 2000 years ago. So their link to us is via the Iron Age and later steppe nomads who are more relevant to us Iranics. Also, if you post the exact analysis you got those numbers from I can give you more specific answers.



I think its pointless even discussing this with you since you clearly did not pay any attention to the genetic, linguistic and archeological evidence I posted above

In most sense, yeah. The PIE peoples of central asia began mixing and assimilating the native populace of central asia long before their migration to Iran and other places.

[Arhat]

Look no one is denying that Sintashta/Andronovo is a distant ancestor to Iranics, but they are one of many and their link is not even direct. There were no pure Sintashtans or Andronovans around who mixed with native Iranics 1000 or 2000 years ago. So their link to us is via the Iron Age and later steppe nomads who are more relevant to us Iranics. Also, if you post the exact analysis you got those numbers from I can give you more specific answers.



I think its pointless even discussing this with you since you clearly did not pay any attention to the genetic, linguistic and archeological evidence I posted on the previous page

which fucking linguistic or genetic evidence? Posting a link to a dubious site is fucking irrelevant. Show me one linguist who thinks Saka is closer to Kurdish than to Jaghnobi, Pashto or Ossetian? Also Pamiri, Jaghnobi and Pashtunsa are genetically much closer to Saka and Pamiri are basically southern Saka which survived the turkification and persianization.

[Arhat]

In most sense, yeah. The PIE peoples of central asia began mixing and assimilating the native populace of central asia long before their migration to Iran and other places.

They entered the region via the Yaz culture i would say and probably had around 50% BMAC-admixture already. So yeah they probably looked nothing like North Europeans when they entered Persia. That is an outdated fantasy too.

[MS85]

Look no one is denying that Sintashta/Andronovo is a distant ancestor to Iranics, but they are one of many and their link is not even direct.Kurds are somehow related to Sintashta/Andronovo monkeys due to Alan and Scythians. Alan and Scythians brought indirectly Steppes ancestry into Kurdistan. But the Aryan Medes were just native to Kurdistan. And the Medes are actually the major direct ancestors of the Kurds.

[MS85]

They entered the region via the Yaz culture i would say and probably had around 50% BMAC-admixture already. So yeah they probably looked nothing like North Europeans when they entered Persia. That is an outdated fantasy too.You are just projecting history of India around 1500BC into the Iranian Plateau. And that is failure big time.

The migrations was actually in the opposite direction. It were the people from the Iranian Plateau who migrated into the Steppes and India.

https://i.postimg.cc/FFB8XpxD/ivanov.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/B6chLcWP/3-19.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Vvr4K9YY/ace.jpg

[MS85]

I have noticed that people have absolutely no evidence at all that Sintashta was Indo-Iranian. There is no evidence for it. Nothing from archaeology and nothing from historic written sources.

What we do know is that BMAC was related to the Aryans, we have got archaeological and written evidences for that. And BMAC predates Andronovo!

People can't answer my question why Indo-Iranian had ergativity, while ergativity is NOT native to the Steppes.


With other words their fantasises are based on nothing but loose sand. They have no evidence at all. They show up, make some wishful thinking statements without evidence and leave, lol. They are just bluffing and farting out of their mouth. People who fail for their nonsense are even more stupid than they are.


While I have got a lot of inductive and deductive scientific evidences based on language, archaeology and DNA.

[Zoro]

which fucking linguistic or genetic evidence? Posting a link to a dubious site is fucking irrelevant. Show me one linguist who thinks Saka is closer to Kurdish than to Jaghnobi, Pashto or Ossetian? Also Pamiri, Jaghnobi and Pashtunsa are genetically much closer to Saka and Pamiri are basically southern Saka which survived the turkification and persianization.

Nice, when you can't scientically counter the evidence simply call all the sites fucking dubious.

You clearly have lots to learn about our complex Iranic ethnogenesis and the complexities of the connections between Eastern and Western Iranian languages. But hey I don't expect you to know since you don't speak our languages. I bet you didn't know that Pashto and Kurdish share more congnates than Pashto and Ossetian, or that there are Pashto and Kurdish common words not even found in Persian or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashto

Like Kurdish, but unlike most other Indo-Iranian languages, Pashto uses all three types of adpositions – prepositions, postpositions and circumpositions.

Nothing is as simple as black and white or Western and Eastern Iranian. It's alot more complicated than that. You would understand what I am saying alot more if you could speak some of our languages.

Sure Pamiris and Pashtuns will be genetically closer to some Saka than Kurds or Azeris, but there are some Sarmatians Sakas and Alans where Kurds and Azeris are genetically closer to and some Sarmatians and Alans where Caucasians are closer to. These nomads covered a huge area. Believe me I have seen the IBS and other analysis. I have also seen alot of Scythian samples where Tatars and the like are closest. These groups are all over the place.It's not that simple...

[MS85]

Can somebody explain me why do they connect Sintashta with proto-Indo-Iranian at the first place? What is the connection between those 2 very different things? How does this specific deduction works? What kind of steps/arguments are they making and what kind of evidence do they have to substantiate their claims. How do they come to their conclusions?

I love science fiction, so please entertain me!

[Arhat]

Well, according to nigger brazilian troll Token, they were FULL BLOWN NORTH EUROPEANS

FULL BLOWN

well he also has no idea about what he is talking about . I always get pissed of when I visit this forum because 90% of posts here are idiotic. Neither were Aryans from Weet Asia nor they looked Nordic. Also Europe is a modern day concept and if course they would not identify as Europeans. Arguing that they had 19th century concepts of race and nation is retarded . They were warlike steppe people who cared mainly about cattle, water and metals. Also they did not genocide the locals and rather absorbed the elites and that is why Yaz is already 50% BMAC. Even Saka in Europe had BMAC ancestry from back migrations so even the ones who stayed in the European steppe became Central Asian shifted

[Kamal900]

I'm talking about Proto-Iranians. I understand Iranians have low IQ but this is some serious lack of basic comprehension skill.

Not really. Even the "purest" of them weren't fully European, and their genetic structure was Northern European like. They were heavily mixed with the local Iranian neolithic peoples of central Asia before their migration to what is now Iran 3,000 years ago and began mixing with the local population from there.

[Leto]

The Sintashta were very similar to the Corded Ware, I don't know why so much fuss about it in 2019.

[Bigsaul]

This thread is so fire made me curry chicken

[Leto]

The Bronze Age nomads in modern Kazakhstan (the samples are from Eastern or Southeastern KZ) who are believed to have been Indo-Iranians were obviously white people genetically, probably more like Eastern Europeans but not identical to any modern group. That shouldn't be controversial. The Persians are a whole different thing, they were never similar to them to begin with. The Persian language originated in Fars, which is Southwestern Iran.

From the recent Central/South Asian paper. Credit to @LukaszM for uploading these guys to GM

Kit No.: Z092581
Y-DNA: R1a1
mtDNA: U2e1
Date: 1611-1503 BCE
SNP count: 270,236

Kit No.: Z303460
Y-DNA: R1a1a1b
mtDNA: H1
Date: 1610-1454 BCE
SNP count: 376,263

Kit No.: Z740946
Y-DNA: -
mtDNA: J1c2
Date: 1640-1527 BCE
SNP count: 392,006

Kit No.: Z523705
Y-DNA: -
mtDNA: U5b2b
Date: 1736-1621 BCE
SNP count: 410,359


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:


Kit Z092581

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 49.12
2 Atlantic_Med 21.16
3 Gedrosia 18.34
4 Caucasus 4.9
5 Siberian 4.62
6 East_African 1.02
7 South_Asian 0.68
8 Southeast_Asian 0.16


Kit Z303460

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 52.91
2 Gedrosia 18.5
3 Atlantic_Med 18.31
4 South_Asian 3.05
5 Siberian 2.86
6 Caucasus 1.99
7 East_Asian 0.84
8 Southeast_Asian 0.6
9 Sub_Saharan 0.57
10 East_African 0.37


Kit Z740946

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 46.7
2 Gedrosia 20.75
3 Atlantic_Med 18.84
4 Siberian 5.4
5 Caucasus 5.16
6 South_Asian 1.58
7 East_Asian 1.02
8 Sub_Saharan 0.55


Kit Z523705

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 54.5
2 Atlantic_Med 19.46
3 Gedrosia 19.22
4 Siberian 2.99
5 South_Asian 2.21
6 Caucasus 0.99
7 Sub_Saharan 0.43
8 Southeast_Asian 0.19
I get like 56% North European, 18% Atlantic Med, 10% Caucasus and 5% Gedrosia.

[Joso]

The Bronze Age nomads in modern Kazakhstan (the samples are from Eastern or Southeastern KZ) who are believed to have been Indo-Iranians were obviously white people genetically, probably more like Eastern Europeans but not identical to any modern group. That shouldn't be controversial. The Persians are a whole different thing, they were never similar to them to begin with. The Persian language originated in Fars, which is Southwestern Iran.



I get like 56% North European, 18% Atlantic Med, 10% Caucasus and 5% Gedrosia.

Did Indo-Europeans arealdy looked like nordids when they were in South Asia?

[Leto]

Did Indo-Europeans arealdy looked like nordids when they were in South Asia?
They probably didn't. I guess they were more like Scythians or a mix of Caucasians and Balto-Slavs. In India they must have been heavily outnumbered by the natives.

[Babak]

Did Indo-Europeans arealdy looked like nordids when they were in South Asia?

No, they looked like Pamiris, if anything.

Something like this:

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/fashion/daily/2016/01/13/13-pamiri.w536.h536.2x.jpg

[Leto]

Alanas Chošnau is half Iraqi Kurdish, half Lithuanian. Quite 'Aryan' to me. Hopefully he's R1a too to complete the picture but he may as well not be.

https://popnable.com/images/singers/temp/alanas_chosnau_lithuania_top_40_133.jpg
http://img.lrytas.lt/show_foto/?id=364383&s=11&f=4

[Babak]

Alanas Chošnau is half Iraqi Kurdish, half Lithuanian. Quite 'Aryan' to me. Hopefully he's R1a too to complete the picture but he may as well not be.

https://popnable.com/images/singers/temp/alanas_chosnau_lithuania_top_40_133.jpg
http://img.lrytas.lt/show_foto/?id=364383&s=11&f=4

We have Kurds that look like him actually. Especially Iraqi kurds.

[Leto]

We have Kurds that look like him actually. Especially Iraqi kurds.
Iraqi Kurds are believed to be the darkest. He looks nothing like fucking Hadouken or similar types. I'm not saying some individual Kurds or Iranians cannot pass as white.

[MS85]

The Bronze Age nomads in modern Kazakhstan (the samples are from Eastern or Southeastern KZ) who are believed to have been Indo-Iranians were obviously white people genetically, probably more like Eastern Europeans but not identical to any modern group. That shouldn't be controversial. The Persians are a whole different thing, they were never similar to them to begin with. The Persian language originated in Fars, which is Southwestern Iran.

I get like 56% North European, 18% Atlantic Med, 10% Caucasus and 5% Gedrosia.I'm sure that Bronze Age Mitanni/Kasites (REAL Indo-Iranians) were very different from this Kazakhstan samples.

Indo-Iranian Bronze Age Mitanni / Kassites from Kurdistan were contemporary to the Hittites..

[Babak]

Iraqi Kurds are believed to be the darkest. He looks nothing like fucking Hadouken or similar types. I'm not saying some individual Kurds or Iranians cannot pass as white.

I understand, but they have uncommon ones too. I nowhere said that he looks like a typical Kurd. Put your white nationalism away for a second and relax.

[MS85]

ARYAN Bronze Age Mitanni & Kassites in Kurdistan who predate ARYAN Medes & Kurds.

https://i.postimg.cc/7h0yvcyb/Mitanni-also-known-in-the-Bible-as-the-Hurrians-or-Horites.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/hGvW4hqk/main-qimg-d0be26b980bfdc6a5b6b6ce4797506a7.jpg

[MS85]

Bronze Age ARYANS (Kassites & Mitanni) in Kurdistan predate Turco-Saka migration from Andronovo into India.


There is no evidence at all that Andronovo was Indo-Iranian before Scythians

[Leto]

I understand, but they have uncommon ones too. I nowhere said that he looks like a typical Kurd. Put your white nationalism away for a second and relax.
I don't know why you added the last part, that has nothing to do with white nationalism, nor do I identify as such. I was going to add this Iranian singer as a similar example
https://i.scdn.co/image/efcab0044e19fb231ff1e0d3a89e0bb7935da0fc

Why are you guys so triggered by the idea that some groups might have looked white? And why is it a bad thing to celebrate whiteness on a European cultural community? I don't white-wash any group, I would never say Ancient Egyptians or even Ancient Greeks looked like Norwegians or anything like that.

[MS85]

Why are you guys so triggered by the idea that some groups might have looked white? And why is it a bad thing to celebrate whiteness on a European cultural community? I don't white-wash any group, I would never say Ancient Egyptians or even Ancient Greeks looked like Norwegians or anything like that.Because it was truly not the case. It is just a huge fart from your mouth.

Where is your evidence?. I want to see evidence for your claims. All what you do is just throwing some statement without backing them with science.


Eastern Slavic people have NOTHING to do with the ARYANS. Eastern Slavs, especially Russians, are actually heavily mixed with the Turkic/Tatar groups. When ARYANS build civilisations in Mesopotamia Slavic language group didn’t even exist yet, lol

[Babak]

I don't know why you added the last part, that has nothing to do with white nationalism, nor do I identify as such. I was going to add this Iranian singer as a similar example
https://i.scdn.co/image/efcab0044e19fb231ff1e0d3a89e0bb7935da0fc

Why are you guys so triggered by the idea that some groups might have looked white? And why is it a bad thing to celebrate whiteness on a European cultural community? I don't white-wash any group, I would never say Ancient Egyptians or even Ancient Greeks looked like Norwegians or anything like that.

Understandable, however when i mentioned that Kurds like that half Lithuanian guy exists, you got defensive and immediately said that they are the darkest group in Iraq. Nobody got triggered.

[Leto]

Understandable, however when i mentioned that Kurds like that half Lithuanian guy exists, you got defensive and immediately said that they are the darkest group in Iraq.
My bad. However I didn't mean the darkest in Iraq, I meant the darkest Kurdish group. I was surprised when you said especially among Iraqi Kurds. I believe Hadouken himself said this (the darkest Kurds).

[MS85]

I know the history of the Eastern Slavs very well. I was born in the USSR. No matter how much of you wannabe Aryan guys are pushing your agenda to be linked with the Aryans, you will FAIL big time.

Why? Because this game is already lost for you from the very beginning. There is 0 historic evidence that Slavs are linked to the Aryans.

Slavic people have NOTHING to to with the Aryans. They were never Aryans, they are not Aryans and they will never be Aryans. Slavic language evolved from a very different language group. The only Eastern Iranian connection of Slavs are the Scythians from Central Asia. But Slavs ae also heavily mixed with the TURKS / TATARS.


Sergey Shoygu Russian Minister of Defence is a pure Tatar. Millions of Eastern Slavs are like him.

https://i.postimg.cc/5tgGZCkc/shoygu.jpg

[Hashoeva]

Aryans were an European people and central asia used to be European. Many Central Asians still score a partly European ancestry. And a tatar is not a slav. You must be either stupid or a troll. Iranians original were Europeans before they mixed and Iranized middle eastern people. Nowedays iranians look middle eastern to pakistani. They have little ancient Iranian ancestry.

[MS85]

Aryans were an European people and central asia used to be European. Many Central Asians still score a partly European ancestry. And a tatar is not a slav. You must be either stupid or a troll. Iranians original were Europeans before they mixed and Iranized middle eastern people. Nowedays iranians look middle eastern to pakistani. They have little ancient Iranian ancestry.Where is your evidence that Aryans were European people? As far as I know Aryans never lived in Europe.

I want just to see evidence that links Aryans to Europe. Something like written language or archaeology etc.

Nah, Kurds look very well similar to their direct Aryan ancestors the Medes

[MS85]

Who is here a troll?


I'm asking you guys just to show me 1 prove that Aryans were European. Just something that links Europe to people who spoke ARYAN language.

[MS85]

ARYANISM forever bitches!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktlI_4032tA

[Token]

Not really. Even the "purest" of them weren't fully European, and their genetic structure was Northern European like. They were heavily mixed with the local Iranian neolithic peoples of central Asia before their migration to what is now Iran 3,000 years ago and began mixing with the local population from there.

Everything you wrote in this post is false. Look at the kits that Leto posted and tell me if there is any Iranian Neolithic there. Come on, don't be dumb like these Iranian autists.

[MS85]

And a tatar is not a slav.No, but Slavs mixed with Mongoloid Tatars and became new modern Eastern European ethnicities.

[MS85]

Look at the kits that Leto posted and tell me if there is any Iranian Neolithic there. Come on, don't be dumb like these Iranian autists.Can you explain me why are these kits considered as Indo-Iranian at the first place? Who is an autist here, lol.

[MS85]

@ Token,

Why are you not answering my questions? Why are you not willing to really discuss with me about this issue?

I've got a few questions for you.

[MS85]

Question 1.

Why do you guys consider early Sintashta/Andronovo as proto-Indo-Iranian? What links them to the ARYAN language?


Question 2.

Indo-Iranian (Avestan & Sanskrit) has ergativity. Where is ergativity in Iranian language from?


Question 3.

When did Aryans supposedly arrived on the Iranian Plateau? I want to know an approximate date.


Question 4.

Why are ancient ARYAN BMAC samples from kurgans etc. not related to Andronovo?


Question 5.

Why Europeans do not speak an ARYAN language?


I've got more questions, but you can start answering this 5 first.

[MS85]

@Token,

If you are not willing to answer my questions, I'm going to consider you as an autist troll big time! I don't need empty statements. Africans are as much Aryans as Europeans are, maybe even more, lol. I want a real discussion, this is all I ask.

[Arhat]

Did Indo-Europeans arealdy looked like nordids when they were in South Asia?

they were massive built, had brachy/mesocephaly and mainly brown hair . Some were blonde and some black haired. They were mainly not blue eyed but around 33% had blue eyes

[Arhat]

No, but Slavs mixed with Mongoloid Tatars and became new modern Eastern European ethnicities.

well your ethnicity on your profile is pretty accurate

[Chelubey]

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.

[PaleoEuropean]

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

[Chelubey]

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

I mean I do not see any cultural connections between the steppe peoples and the Iranians.
For example.
Chuvash clothes:
http://gov.cap.ru/Home/102//2007/kartinki/p6210032.jpg
http://art16.ru/gallery2/d/98560-9/dsc04766.jpg
Andronovans clothes:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Woman_of_Andronovian_culture.jpg/800px-Woman_of_Andronovian_culture.jpg

Or the light frame dwellings of the late Andronovans, as many archaeologists believe, became the prototype of the Turkic light dwellings
http://cleversite.narod.ru/urta.jpg

And why the religion of the Scythians has no connection with Indo-Iranian mythology/religion, but it is similar to the Hunnic religion and cults. The Scythians, like the Huns, worshiped sword according to historical chronicles?
Where are these cultural connections with Iranians?

[Babak]

Everything you wrote in this post is false. Look at the kits that Leto posted and tell me if there is any Iranian Neolithic there. Come on, don't be dumb like these Iranian autists.

We've already accepted that Modern Iranians aren't that close to Proto-Iranics you imbecile. Its you that has issues accepting the fact that they didn't descend from todays North Europeans populations, but rather a population that was North-european like.

[Babak]

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

Close. They didn't force them into Iran, but they wiped out 60% of the population. Later, Turkics came in, mixed with the locals and assimilated the rest of the remaining population.

[Joso]

they were massive built, had brachy/mesocephaly and mainly brown hair . Some were blonde and some black haired. They were mainly not blue eyed but around 33% had blue eyes

So they were like brunns and borrebies?

[Yaglakar]

I mean I do not see any cultural connections between the steppe peoples and the Iranians.
For example.
Chuvash clothes:
http://gov.cap.ru/Home/102//2007/kartinki/p6210032.jpg
http://art16.ru/gallery2/d/98560-9/dsc04766.jpg
Andronovans clothes:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Woman_of_Andronovian_culture.jpg/800px-Woman_of_Andronovian_culture.jpg

How did you establish that this indeed is Andronovo attire? Is it dressmakers imagination or a model based on concrete physical evidence aka excavations? I see that the garment's geolocation is in some place in Almaty. I witnessed an interesting case recently. In some Kazakh museum, there was this belt but the buckle was quite old, and on it were some letters which resembled Old Turkic and in the museum description tag it was written Old Turkic inscriptions. The photo was posted in another forum, it turns out the letters are actually eastern Arabic numerals, 1898 or something.

You also cannot post modern "folk" clothing which is often inspirational or made to fit certain recent discoveries. If this is actually Andronovo model attire, you have to post old photos of Chuvashes, to be certain of the fact that Chuvashes wore similar kind of clothing a hundred years back.


Or the light frame dwellings of the late Andronovans, as many archaeologists believe, became the prototype of the Turkic light dwellings
http://cleversite.narod.ru/urta.jpg

Records do not indicate that proto-Turks or even old Turks lived in yurts (as in foldable mobile houses). But records do indicate, that yurts (their descriptions) are becoming common with Mongolic activity in the region. Yurts evolved from Mongolic gers. Prior to that Turkics lived in tents like their Iranic predecessors.

[Yaglakar]

That is because the Mongols drove the Iranians out of almost all of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. That entire area was Iranian before the Mongol hordes forced them into Iran, Armenia, Turkey and Northern Iraq.The remnants of that connection is Azerbaijan and the Kurds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarazm

Iranic nomads were absorbed long before that. There might have been few remaining ones prior to immediate Mongol expansion. The ones that were in southern Kazahstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan were settled ones, mostly eastern Iranics but probably by that time already mixed with Persians. According to records large areas of Uzbekistan, southern Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan were bilingual (that's 11th century). Mongols facilitated Turkicization.

[MS85]

well your ethnicity on your profile is pretty accurateYou are talking about yourself.

watch from 2:40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a34TgLS9Tj8

[MS85]

Can anyone say, for example, what is common between steppe cultures and Iranians?
There is nothing in common.Neolithic_Iranian Plateau auDNA in both groups.

[Ayetooey]

""-Most notably, the huge, 2015 study, by Peter A. Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded that there was "compelling evidence that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran." "

"The study also concluded that R1a is present in South Asia ACROSS linguistic groups including Indo European, Dravidian and tribal groups. Given the close connections between Indo-Iranian texts it is clear that ancient South and West Asia were as multilingual as they are today. Iranian Avestha itself traces its roots back to South Asia and the Sindhu (Indus) Sarasvati civilization. "

Lmaooooo

[Chelubey]

Records do not indicate that proto-Turks or even old Turks lived in yurts (as in foldable mobile houses). But records do indicate, that yurts (their descriptions) are becoming common with Mongolic activity in the region. Yurts evolved from Mongolic gers. Prior to that Turkics lived in tents like their Iranic predecessors.
Tent?How could it be heated in winter ? What is the records? Yurt is from mongolic ger- what is promongolic fantasy? Mongolic etimology of yurt?

[Pahli]

This thread turned into a big shitfest.

First of all, most Iranians don't have a considerable amount of "Aryan" genetic contribution, I myself only have 12%, we are predominantly natives with a small steppe admix that were culturally and linguistically assimilated. Kurds and Persians don't have much in resemblance compared to the Proto-Iranian Andronovo culture, the attire, dialect and culture differs albeit having some similarities here and there.

But Proto-Iranians weren't "Northern European", they were more Eastern European because of their high EHG admix, Andronovo itself plots in Eastern Europe. Mesolithic Iranians btw already had some EHG while the more Southern neolithic groups had almost none.

Andronovo is slightly north of Poland in Eurogenes K15:

https://i.imgur.com/sESmEd8.png

[J. Ketch]

Plotting north of Poles is not Northern European now :picard1:

[Dick]

""-Most notably, the huge, 2015 study, by Peter A. Underhill et al., using 16,244 individuals from over 126 populations from across Eurasia, concluded that there was "compelling evidence that the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran." "

"The study also concluded that R1a is present in South Asia ACROSS linguistic groups including Indo European, Dravidian and tribal groups. Given the close connections between Indo-Iranian texts it is clear that ancient South and West Asia were as multilingual as they are today. Iranian Avestha itself traces its roots back to South Asia and the Sindhu (Indus) Sarasvati civilization. "

Lmaooooo

Makes sense

[Yaglakar]

Tent?How could it be heated in winter ? What is the records? Yurt is from mongolic ger- what is promongolic fantasy? Mongolic etimology of yurt?

I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:

http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/AMI/images/ami1-455.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Rus_vs_Cumans.jpg/300px-Rus_vs_Cumans.jpg

There also many dwellings with a brick-clay foundation.

Azerbaijan:


https://imgprx.livejournal.net/91c547f9d35c22e4aec9dc5e5622c315aeb8d9bc/egFjVY4buty_ypO3m9Ff2OnYpOn-3ZdJdURUs6TueV7KaaiiZ6FCE3oJjYxK3LWEM-VPmGgbURmh1TBwmS3761AyD7LydIBl8W8pampjmeQ

https://imgprx.livejournal.net/7a4b25b33e8cfa76b42a4e9a0a0aa35358c4a50f/egFjVY4buty_ypO3m9Ff2IupgobWkTdgPI4-3Y2O88CrVsY3vv1v48MrHVhwLanJxOy6csC3Y2Iv4SAmOJE10K Ce6IZ0oO3qiUgXePCCmho

Шатры essentially, and pretty warm as well

[Joso]

They probably didn't. I guess they were more like Scythians or a mix of Caucasians and Balto-Slavs. In India they must have been heavily outnumbered by the natives.

How scythians looked?

[Leto]

How scythians looked?
Prolly like this. He is a Balkar (Northwest Caucasian)
https://www.kavkaz-uzel.eu/system/uploads/article_image/image/0013/132846/view_new.jpg
https://amp.kavkaz-uzel.eu/system/uploads/article_image/image/0012/126287/main_image_new.jpg

Karachay-Balkars are often R1a (20-30% or something in the ballpark) and apparently have a significant amount of Aryan blood. They speak a Kipchak Turkic language.

[Chelubey]

I don't think there a Turkic group which refers to yurts as yurts in their own respective languages. Yurt may refer to home, land, country, domain or place of living. By "Yurts" we understand a construction which can put together and dismantled at will with the walls of the frame folded in orderly manner, not only some kind of temporary twig structure. There are no descriptions of yurts prior to movement of Mongolic peoples. First Chinese records describe Mongolic dwellings. The appearance of yurts in Central Asia is linked to a period between Qara Khitai and Mongols (11-13th century). What we see today, Turkmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz yurts evolved from Mongolic type dwellings.

Cumans:

https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya-i-mongolskaya-yurty-otlichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

[Yaglakar]

https://fetr.org/articles/tyurkskaya-i-mongolskaya-yurty-otlichiya-tipov/
It says here that Mongolian and Turkic yurts are constructively different and in fact are an ethnic marker.
Turkic yurts due to the special design have no central columns. The Mongolian yurt has straight roof poles and is lower than the Turkic one. Although some experts argue that the Mongolian yurt is being made lower because of strong winds in Mongolia but this argument is very bad. The force of the wind in the Kazakh steppes is not very different from the force of the wind in the Mongolian steppes. In addition, the Kalmyks also use the Mongolian type of yurt.
The real advantages of the Mongolian yurt are:
1) Mongolian yurt is much easier to make
2) Mongolian yurt is much easier to assemble.
But the Mongolian yurt is less convenient.
In fact, the Mongolian yurt is a constructively simplified version of the Turkic yurt.
The Mongolian version is actually structurally closer to the tent. After all, the main feature of the Turkic yurt is the absence of supporting columns due to its special construction.
All this suggests that the Mongolian yurt is most likely a simplified version of the Turkic yurt, and the Turkic yurt is not a complicated version of the Mongolian yurt.
This is generally a Mongolian tradition : simplicity to the detriment of comfort. Mongolian carts are also more primitive than Turkic one.
In addition, it is very difficult to imagine that various Turkic peoples, in the 11th-13th century already long divided, began to build the same type of yurt ("Turkic columnless") while borrowing the main constructive idea from the Mongols only in the 13th century. It is obvious that various traditions of manufacture of portable dwellings among the Mongols and Turks appeared a long time ago, probably even at pra-Turkic or pra-Mongolic times.
As i know, the Turks have their original vocabulary for parts of the construction of a portable dwelling and they are not borrowed from the Mongols.
In addition, I do not know of any famous archaeologist / specialist who holds your views on this problem. This is probably your own hypothesis.
I think that my deductive arguments cost more than your arguments, probably based only on the random chronological coincidence of the first detailed description of yurts in the historical literature and visual arts and the Mongolian expansion of 11-13 centuries.

It happened earlier than 13th century, and is linked to increased activity of Mongolic peoples in the region prior to Genghis Khan. Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae). Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

[Chelubey]

Proto-Turks (forest dwellers) adopted Indo-European tents and nomadic culture (including burial practices and stone stelae).
Proof? I mean proof, not private opininon some experts. For example, give lingvistic proofs.
Forest dwellers and sedentary farmers? This is being reconstructed for the pra-mongol peoples.


Yurts were invented by Mongolic peoples. One can look at Yoruks, they don't have Yurts, why? Because Mongolic culture did not reach them. Cultural vestiges can be observed during Turkic weddings when tents rather than Yurts are placed for the couple.

Turkic peoples had several types of stationary and portable dwellings. Yurt is one of them.
Yuruks use a dwelling which is typical for Middle Eastern nomadic -Berbers and Kurds. "Regional cultural community".
Central Asian Turkmen use yurts.
I gave the link.
The Turkic yurt is much more complicated than the Mongol one.
I know the reason for this - the Mongols just did not have craftsmen/artisans to make complicated yurts and they were poor, so they made a simplified version of a Turkic yurts

[Chelubey]

In addition, this is physics.
The shape of the yurt is ideal for keeping warm and it is comfortable.
Yurt is very suitable for northern latitudes.
It is not very relevant for the Middle East

[Guti]

The purpose of this thread is to shut the mouth of the Iranic WE WUZ'ers who deny that Indo-Iranic was brought by Northern Europeans to South Asia.

[1] "distance%=1.3205"
Pashtun

BMAC,34.8
Indus_Valley_Civilization,34.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,26.2
Mongola,4.2

[1] "distance%=1.6721"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,71.4
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21.2
Onge,4.2
Mongola,2.6
BMAC,0.6

[1] "distance%=1.4714"
Brahmin_Gujarat

Indus_Valley_Civilization,64.8
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,21
BMAC,13.4
Mongola,0.8

[1] "distance%=1.8399"
Gujarati

Indus_Valley_Civilization,87.2
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,11.8
BMAC,0.6
Mongola,0.4

[1] "distance%=1.6467"
Tajik_Yagnobi

BMAC,50
Russian_Steppe_MLBA,43.4
Mongola,6.6

Now lets me make a experiment, what if we replace Russian_Steppe_MLBA for Scandinavians?

[1] "distance%=1.689"
Brahmin_West_Bengal

Indus_Valley_Civilization,73.8
Norwegian,19.4
Mongola,3
Onge,2.4
BMAC,1.4

Works equally well.
Norwegian-like admixture in Brahmins? This is not possibru...
Cope with that, Iranians.
LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.

[Melonman]

theyre from russia, but they are more ancestrial to aryans of central asia than to europeans. only few certain russians got this aryan ancestry.

the aryans almost died in europe

[Leto]

LMAO. Proto-Iranic and proto-Indo-Iranic are 2 different things.

South Asia is not 'Iranic', but mostly Hindu/Vedic.

Geneflow from the Steppes into South Asia occurred around 1500BC. It was long after proto-Indo-Iranics were gone.
What the fuck's your problem with Steppe ancestry? Just admit that your people are a mix of multiple different things, as most nations today, especially bigger ones. Your ancestry is mostly not from the Steppe, you are right about that. But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe. There's nothing controversial about that. Even if the new Southern Ark hypothesis is correct (which is far from certain), Iran and Kurdistan got Indo-Europeanized much later than that.

[Guti]

But the proto-Iranic language did come down from the Steppe.Proto-Indo-Iranian, proto-Indo-Aryan (Vedic Sanskrit) and proto-Iranic (related to Avestan) are 3 different things. Just think about that.

[Guti]

Even proto-Western Iranic has a different origin than the proto-Iranic.

Like proto-Slavic has a different origin than proto-Balto-Slavic. Or proto-Eastern Slavic has different origin than proto-Western Slavic.


https://i.postimg.cc/QtCj4xXx/iranian-lanuage-tree.png



This is how Kurdic is related to other Northwestern Iranic langauges.

https://i.postimg.cc/HxbRpqs1/zaza.jpg

glottolog.org/resource/languoid/id/kurd1259

[Leto]

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.

[Guti]

The Andronovo people had disappeared before those ancient books were written.Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

[Leto]

Guti, please try this model for me


MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave,0.0247883,-0.4316,0.0744604,-0.0324077,-0.0641144,-0.0424223,0.0110716,0.0203838,0.0101353,0.0177378,-0.0425639,-0.0023647,-0.000165,0.0003823,4.51e-05,-0.0017383,0.0008403,-0.0046594,-0.0001953,0.0198567,-0.0247064,-0.0017723,-0.0200073,-0.0059041,0.0012639
RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA,0.037562,-0.424491,0.154997,0.001938,-0.14495,-0.085341,0.019506,0.031845,0.028633,0.005832,0.086 878,-0.00015,0.011298,-0.04803,-0.045466,-0.027711,0.000261,0.006714,0.004148,-0.009379,0.026204,0.001607,0.002218,0.004338,0.008 502
CHN_Yellow_River_LN,0.0166466,-0.4503874,0.0109365,-0.0657709,0.0545101,0.0217886,0.0037894,0.0012404,-0.0097149,0.0040092,-0.0851524,-0.0100032,0.0123945,-0.0059179,-0.0088896,-0.000895,0.001483,-0.0003801,-0.0048392,-0.0075191,0.0172975,0.007543,0.0128639,-0.0006476,0.0073496
KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA,0.1238396,0.1092712,0.057247,0.08 03624,0.006832,0.0277774,0.0055462,0.0020308,-0.0176302,-0.028356,-0.0004872,-0.0001198,0.0004164,-0.0231206,0.0219864,0.0119594,-0.007171,-0.001723,-0.0012318,0.0021012,-0.0054654,0.00413,-0.0005918,0.0059282,-0.0022992
Levant_Megiddo_MLBA,0.0861261,0.1455592,-0.0646134,-0.1002072,-0.014596,-0.0394563,-0.0045434,-0.0097249,0.0131382,0.0089382,0.0103465,-0.0088707,0.0219027,0.0020119,-0.007316,0.005411,-0.0024898,0.004217,0.0036812,0.0073607,0.0047534,0 .0040982,-0.0049357,-0.0025361,-0.0014427
TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA,0.1050018,0.1515678,-0.042332,-0.082365,-0.0040775,-0.0274705,-0.0024088,-0.0077882,-0.011402,0.028429,0.0097435,0.007006,-0.0120788,0.0030965,-0.0138435,-0.004475,0.0116693,-0.0021538,0.0087988,-0.00741,-0.0031817,0.0061828,-0.0048065,0.0030725,-0.001407
IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C,0.0780205,0.0973985,-0.1210557,-0.0128319,-0.0964655,0.0129052,0.0135666,-0.0041957,-0.0710069,-0.0366129,-0.0049454,-0.0008311,-0.0011082,-0.0034781,0.0189268,0.0286995,-0.0069221,0.0043305,0.0072791,-0.0235001,0.0067043,-0.0146134,-0.0055349,-0.0227852,0.01339
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2,0.043708,-0.0327002,-0.170006,0.0950268,-0.1047582,0.0568936,0.0063452,0.0041998,0.0056858, 0.0067428,-0.0051964,0.0079128,-0.0018436,-0.0031928,0.0098534,0.0097852,-0.0023732,0.0025084,0.0016342,-0.0142568,0.0029694,-0.0125136,-0.0011832,-0.0119052,0.001317
KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP,-0.528139,0.049761,-0.012445,0.010013,-0.016926,0.008367,0.098469,-0.08192,0.06422,-0.052848,-0.013316,0.018733,-0.029583,-0.011973,0.017372,-0.007425,0.027902,0.03978,-0.008925,-0.004127,-0.005865,0.017806,-0.007518,0.003494,0.00467

[Babak]

Ok. But I am 100% sure they (Andronovo) didn't speak proto-Iranic, let alone proto-Western Iranic. At max proto-Indo-Iranian or even proto-Indo-Aryan or something.


What I am trying to say is that even if proto-Iranic ancestors of the Kurds were somehow related to the Andronovo Horizon, they came NOT from Andronovo Horizon when they migrated into Kurdistan. When they arrived in Kurdistan they were not the same people you could find in the Steppes at that time.

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.

[Guti]

Target: Guti_g25_scaled
Distance: 1.4276% / 0.01427578
38.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
25.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
19.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
1.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

https://i.postimg.cc/HL8CXByz/Guti.jpg

[Guti]

They already assimilated in modern day Iran.Who?

IF it is true what the majority of the academic world is claiming, and that Kurdish Iranic ancestors came from Central Asia, then they (the Medes) arrived from BMAC/Yaz and not from Andronovo. So, if we are going to link the Medes to Yaz (BMAC) that would mean that Kurds would have by far more Iranic ancestry then what people here are claiming.

[Babak]

Who?

IF it is true what the majority of the academic world is claiming, and that Kurdish Iranic ancestors came from Central Asia, then they (the Medes) arrived from BMAC/Yaz and not from Andronovo. So, if we are going to link the Medes to Yaz (BMAC) that would mean that Kurds would have by far more Iranic ancestry then what people here are claiming.

Nah because yaz was 50% proto iranic 50% bmac itself. Iranics have up to 20% original iranic ancestry MAX. No more than that.

[Guti]

Nah because yaz was 50% proto iranic 50% bmac itself. Iranics have up to 20% original iranic ancestry MAX. No more than that.IF proto-Iranics came from SouthCentral Asia then Yaz was 100% proto-Iranic (ARYAN).

I still believe that the Medes were just native to Kurdistan and were the same as the Iron_Age Hassanlu ARYANS, but let say the Medes came from Yaz. If the Medes came from Yaz then Kurds have more than +35% of SouthCentral Asian (Yaz) ancestry.

The Aryan Medes were related to the Hurrians anyway if we assume that the Iron_Age Hassanlu folks were Hurrian (Mannaeans). Because Yaz people were for a huge part of a Caucaso-Iranic (CHG/Iran_ChL) racial stock themselves anyway. So in Kurdish case it doesn't really matter. Kurds kept the majority of their ancient (CHG/Irn_ChL) DNA.


The 'Iron_Age Hassanlu' and the 'Iron_Age Yaz' people were related for sure.

[Leto]

Nah because yaz was 50% proto iranic 50% bmac itself. Iranics have up to 20% original iranic ancestry MAX. No more than that.
Guti himself is around 15% Steppe which is a good amount but nonetheless he's over 80% West Asian and Middle Eastern as he likes it.

[Token]

IF proto-Iranics came from SouthCentral Asia then Yaz was 100% proto-Iranic (ARYAN).

This is impossible due to the simple fact of the extensive borrowings from Proto-Iranic in Proto-Uralic. Proto-Iranic branched off from Indo-Iranian while still in the northern steppes.

[Mejgusu]

There is a genetic gradient of steppe ancestry from Central Asian Iranics to West and South Asian which clearly shows the migration route of early Iranic peoples.

I think if Porto-Iranians/Proto-IEs had emerged in Westasia, they would never have the chance to spread around whole Eurasia, before this would have happened they probably would be swallowed by the other groups there who were definitely too dominant. Main reason of IE-spread were horses too, not domesticated by them but without this animal they wouldn't have conquered all this lands.

[Guti]

I think if Porto-Iranians/Proto-IEs had emerged in Westasia, they would never have the chance to spread around whole Eurasia, before this would have happened they probably would be swallowed by the other groups there who were definitely too dominant. Main reason of IE-spread were horses too, not domesticated by them but without this animal they wouldn't have conquered all this lands.Proto-Iranians are not the same as proto-IEans. You are confused.


Proto-Iranics could spread from Kurdistan into BMAC and from BMAC all the way into the Steppes. The ancient Steppes were full of the BMAC ancestry.

[Guti]

This is impossible due to the simple fact of the extensive borrowings from Proto-Iranic in Proto-Uralic. Proto-Iranic branched off from Indo-Iranian while still in the northern steppes.Not, who is saying it was proto-Iranic? I heard some theories that there was some connection between proto-Indo-Iranian and proto-Uralic. Proto-Uralic was older than proto-Iranic, so what you are saying doesn't make any sense.

There were also a couple migration waves from BMAC into the Steppes. BMAC was older than Andronovo culture.

https://i.postimg.cc/c4Ryv3Wt/abe4414-f4.jpg

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abe4414

[Nmiito]

Proto-Iranians are not the same as proto-IEans. You are confused.


Proto-Iranics could spread from Kurdistan into BMAC and from BMAC all the way into the Steppes. The ancient Steppes were full of the BMAC ancestry.

You need to make up your mind because you conflate ancient populations like CHG with rather modern populations (your supposed Aryans) and mix them all with linguistics when it suits you although it makes no sense.

[Guti]

You need to make up your mind because you conflate ancient populations like CHG with rather modern populations (your supposed Aryans) and mix them all with linguistics when it suits you although it makes no sense.
What do you mean?

The Medes were ARYAN people, that's a fact. Suppose the Medes (as Western Iranics) were not native to Kurdistan and arrived in Kurdistan from SouthCentral Asia, more precisely from the Yaz area. The Medes (Western Iranics) themselves had NOTHING to do with the Andronovo Horizon.

At the end, it doesn't even matter where those Medes came from in the first place. Why? If they were native to Kurdistan they would be CHG (Iron_Age Hasanlu) and even if they were from BMAC they would be also mostly CHG, since BMAC was CHG/Irn_ChL derived itself. So no matter how you look at it, the Medes as ARYAN people (Western Iranics) were mostly related to the ancient CHG people (Northwestern Asians).


CHG (Irn_ChL) has been related to the proto-Indo-Europeans and later Iranics (Western and Eastern) from the very beginning of their respective origins

[Guti]

I am sure that if the Medes were from YAZ, they made Kurds even more CHG/Iran_ChL, because CHG/Irn_ChL was less diluted in SouthCentral Asia than CHG in West Asia.
Kurds have more CHG/Irn_ChL than Armenians, and that thanks to the Medes!


CHG/Irn_ChL = ARYAN