Guys, do Armenians are genetically closer to Eastern Anatolians,Kurds and Asyrians or North Caucasus

[AphroditeWorshiper]

what do you guys think about?

:confused:

[Rgvgjhvv]

First one def

[Nazarene]

Armenians are closer to Assyrians than anyone else

[FinalFlash]

Armenians are closer to Assyrians than anyone else

Trabzon Turks and Pontian Greeks than to anyone else actually.

[Oghuz]

Black sea Anatolians
Assyrians

[Nazarene]

Trabzon Turks and Pontian Greeks than to anyone else actually.

They're pretty much Armenians

[FinalFlash]

They're pretty much Armenians

Not quite. They're different enough to be distinct to us, yet be our closest genetic relatives. Georgian Jews are closer to us than even Assyrians are too.

[Nazarene]

Not quite. They're different enough to be distinct to us, yet be our closest genetic relatives. Georgian Jews are closer to us than even Assyrians are too.

The Western Armenian kits I've seen all had Assyrian as the first or second population. But we are also very close to Georgian Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, Iranian Jews etc.

[FinalFlash]

The Western Armenian kits I've seen all had Assyrian as the first or second population. But we are also very close to Georgian Jews, Mesopotamian Jews, Iranian Jews etc.

Maybe so, but this doesn't apply to Eastern Armenians. EA also get Georgian_Laz and Adjarians before even Assyrians.

Assyrians generally get Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish Jews as well as Mandeans as top matches. Chaldeans even get Druze slightly before they get Armenians.

I can do a G25 run for the Assyrian average if you would like?

[Nazarene]

Maybe so, but this doesn't apply to Eastern Armenians. EA also get Georgian_Laz and Adjarians before even Assyrians.

Assyrians generally get Iranian, Iraqi, Kurdish Jews as well as Mandeans as top matches. Chaldeans even get Druze slightly before they get Armenians.

I can do a G25 run for the Assyrian average if you would like?

Sure thing to the G25. I have never seen an Eastern Armenian result, but I'm pretty sure the ones who shift towards Georgians are outnumbered by the ones who are closer to Assyrians.

Mandeans are indeed very close, Western Armenians still being closer. Btw "Chaldeans" are Assyrians, and most do not score Druze before Armenians. Tur Abdin Assyrians have a slight Levantine shift, but even then it's not significant.

[xtal]

Any one that is living in the ancient Armenian kingdom today

[FinalFlash]

Sure thing to the G25. I have never seen an Eastern Armenian result, but I'm pretty sure the ones who shift towards Georgians are outnumbered by the ones who are closer to Assyrians.

Mandeans are indeed very close, Western Armenians still being closer. Btw "Chaldeans" are Assyrians, and most do not score Druze before Armenians. Tur Abdin Assyrians have a slight Levantine shift, but even then it's not significant.

Not quite. It's just that Eastern Armenians are not well represented as of yet. Levon Yepiskoposyan is currently working on a project to obtain 1200 Armenian samples from Armenia+Artsakh. His goal is to make references of those whose 4 grandparents are all from the same region. Eastern Armenia is generally well covered from what I've been told and that they're currently on the haplogroup testing phase. Once they complete the genomwide analysis, we will have a better idea.

Also, it depends on the calculators you've seen on Gedmatch, those that usually have Trabzon Turk and Laz references(I've never seen a Pontian on Gedmatch) will usually get those populations as top matches. Some kits get Turks and Azeris as top matches as well so clearly there are genetic differences that haven't been highlighted yet.

[Nazarene]

Not quite. It's just that Eastern Armenians are not well represented as of yet. Levon Yepiskoposyan is currently working on a project to obtain 1200 Armenian samples from Armenia+Artsakh. His goal is to make references of those whose 4 grandparents are all from the same region. Eastern Armenia is generally well covered from what I've been told and that they're currently on the haplogroup testing phase. Once they complete the genomwide analysis, we will have a better idea.

Also, it depends on the calculators you've seen on Gedmatch, those that usually have Trabzon Turk and Laz references(I've never seen a Pontian on Gedmatch) will usually get those populations as top matches. Some kits get Turks and Azeris as top matches as well so clearly there are genetic differences that haven't been highlighted yet.

Sure of course there are differences, I am just stating on what I've seen so far. Keen to see the findings on Eastern Armenia soon.

[xtal]

Idk how accurate is this map but it looks like some Azeris (both from Azerbaijan and Iran), eastern Anatolians and assuming some Assyrians are genetically share similar haplogroups https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190503/313a8af77779a8b315bdbeea1c82ec0c.jpg

[harutsafaryan07]

[1,] "Armenian" "0"
[2,] "Turk_East_Black_Sea" "4.6699"
[3,] "Greek_Pontus" "4.7554"
[4,] "Armenian_Eastern_Anatolia" "4.9182"
[5,] "Georgian_Jewish" "5.8483"
[6,] "Turk_East" "7.8164"
[7,] "Laz" "8.0352"
[8,] "Assyrian" "8.6322"
[9,] "Turk_South_East" "8.8966"
[10,] "Turk_Ahiska" "9.2071"
[11,] "Kurdish" "10.2592"
[12,] "Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey" "11.0225"
[13,] "Azerbaijani_Iran" "11.1586"
[14,] "Turk_Azerbaijani" "11.5792"
[15,] "Azeri" "11.9095"
[16,] "Turkish" "12.1584"
[17,] "Kurdish_Jewish" "12.6999"
[18,] "Iranian" "13.2568"
[19,] "Iranian_Jewish" "13.4038"
[20,] "Greek_Central_Anatolia" "13.7292"

by Eurogenes K13


1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Armenian Greek_Eastern_Anatolia Greek_Pontus
0.000000 3.308172 4.755397
Armenian_Eastern_Anatolia Georgian_Jewish Laz
4.918150 5.848316 8.035229
Turkmen_Iraq Assyrian
8.426055 8.632172


By MDLP K23b to 15
1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Armenian Armenian_Yerevan Hemsin Turk_Trabzon
0.000000 2.509422 2.859126 3.379112
Samtskhe_Javakheti Greek_Pontus Turk_Ahiska Laz
3.638131 3.862422 4.966256 5.159157

[harutsafaryan07]

And it is Hemshin


1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Hemsin Armenian Samtskhe_Javakheti Turk_Trabzon
0.000000 2.859126 3.346610 3.347148
Greek_Pontus Armenian_Yerevan Armenian_West Turk_Ahiska
3.360878 4.227150 5.611577 5.951176

[21993]

Eastern Anatolians

[FinalFlash]

by Eurogenes K13




By MDLP K23b to 15

Interesting. Where did you get these? Eurogenes doesn't seem to have any of these populations.

[harutsafaryan07]

@FinalFlash
Interesting. Where did you get these? Eurogenes doesn't seem yo have any of these populations

from here https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018/03/turkler-ve-komsu-etnisiteler-arasndaki.html

also spreadsheet:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FRPqfIKUImAWI1doA6Qr0K70TTfXtTu2P3NkAvRy0 yo

[FinalFlash]

@FinalFlash

from here https://turkishdna.blogspot.com/2018/03/turkler-ve-komsu-etnisiteler-arasndaki.html

also spreadsheet:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FRPqfIKUImAWI1doA6Qr0K70TTfXtTu2P3NkAvRy0 yo

I meant the calculator though. The one you originally posted. Eurogenes K13 doesn't have those populations in their oracles.

[dosas]

Trabzon Turks and Pontian Greeks than to anyone else actually.

No. Pontian Greeks are a linguistic group. They can be genetically Anatolian admix'ed (Trabzon, south shores), Georgian/Laz/Caucasus admix'ed (eastern Shores), Slavic/Tartar admix'ed (Crimea and Azov). Armenians were an antagonistic group to the Empire of Trebizond, there is overlap, like there is with all South Caucasus populations, but it's not exclusive.

Post genocide, they are friendlies (Armenians and Pontian Rums) because they were partners in pain.

[FinalFlash]

No. Pontian Greeks are a linguistic group. They can be genetically Anatolian admix'ed (Trabzon, south shores), Georgian/Laz/Caucasus admix'ed (eastern Shores), Slavic/Tartar admix'ed (Crimea and Azov). Armenians were an antagonistic group to the Empire of Trebizond, there is overlap, like there is with all South Caucasus populations, but it's not exclusive.

Post genocide, they are friendlies (Armenians and Pontian Rums) because they were partners in pain.

Whatever the case may be, we seem to get them in our top 2 on oracles. Do the Slavic admixed ones really count as Pontians anymore, honestly?

[dosas]

Whatever the case may be, we seem to get them in our top 2 on oracles. Do the Slavic admixed ones really count as Pontians anymore, honestly?

I think the case is that the Greek_Pontus reference is from the south shores (Trabzon, etc.) whereas the other groups are called something else. In MDLP the Crimean/Ukranian Pontians are referenced as Greek_Azov, for example, I don't know about the other calculators.

As for your question, the Crimean Pontians are the only surviving Pontians that still live in their homelands and were not uprooted/ethnically cleansed.

[FinalFlash]

I think the case is that the Greek_Pontus reference is from the south shores (Trabzon, etc.) whereas the other groups are called something else. In MDLP the Crimean/Ukranian Pontians are referenced as Greek_Azov, for example, I don't know about the other calculators.

As for your question, the Crimean Pontians are the only surviving Pontians that still live in their homelands and were not uprooted/ethnically cleansed.

Yeah on G25 they are labeled Greek_Trabzon. I do think Azov Greeks are different from Pontians because they have foreign admixture based off the distances on the oracles.

[dosas]

Yeah on G25 they are labeled Greek_Trabzon. I do think Azov Greeks are different from Pontians because they have foreign admixture based off the distances on the oracles.

What do you mean 'foreign admix'. They are both Greco-Romans that mix'd with locals. Their language, religion, and cultural continuity is identical to Rums from Trabzon.

[Lemgrant]

I meant the calculator though. The one you originally posted. Eurogenes K13 doesn't have those populations in their oracles.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?274021-Post-your-Eurogenes-K13-Admixture-Proportions-by-Chromosome&p=5961626&viewfull=1#post5961626

[Tonythe0ne]

They’re a mix but prob closest to northern Iranians and other Caucasians

[Papastratosels26]

Kurds