Consolidated Origin Hypothesis of Western Balkan people

[Bosniensis]

Throughout a decade a fight has been going on on "Origin Hypothesis" of Balkan people, but namely South Slavs.

While this might sound ridiculous to a German or Egyptian who is well informed about his origins, Balkan Slavs
have been under a Roman and Ottoman Empire for the last 2000 years with only a decade/two randomly independent.

After defeat of Romans in Eastern Mediterranean, the knowledge of those people basically vanished, Ottoman converts
ceased identifying people through Tribal and historical names and they used rather religious identifications (muslim, christian).

But for many years people asked themselves: Who are those people no matter the culture, religion. Who are they? From
where they came? etc...

INTRODUCTION

In Ancient Period Western Balkans was called Illyria or Illyrian Tribes (meaning people who descend from Illyrios
a hellenized name of local paternal ancestor) and Eastern Balkans: Thracia or Thracian Tribes (children of Tirak/Teresh)

Both Romans and Greeks observed those people as high spirited warlike tribes, easily offended, always ready to
fight each other and neither of them were fond of Greeks or Romans, and that they are people who predate
both Greeks and Romans on Balkan peninsula (Herodotus)

SLAVIC MIGRATIONS

Scythian Migration or (Slavic) how it is called today is explained as a phenomenon where after Justinian Plague
and Persian Wars certain Scythian(Slavic) Tribes came and populated most of Balkan peninsula from 6th - 9th century A.D.
and we can (without a doubt) see that something actually did came to Balkans but the story about that is much
more complex than it seems.

First of All, most of Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian populace is autosomaly both Southern and North-Eastern
oriented which tells us about obvious mix of Native Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians and Scythian (Slavic)
newcomers.

Question arise, when did that happened? Modern historians say that it happened in 7-10th century A.D.
but "Historia Augusta" says otherwise.

Let's read this quote from ancient history books:

"Antonius Hybrida, the governour of Moesia, was defeated beneath the walls of Histria in 61 BC. The Getae under Zyraxes and the bastarnae of Scythia were allied with the Histrians, but it seems that the main victors of this conflict were the Getae, as they were the keepers of the trophies and brought them back to Genucla, Zyraxes' capital."

So Antonius Hybrida a governor of Modern Serbia was defeated in modern Croatian territory Histria 61 B.C against the
Thracian Getae plunderers. "Zyraxes" (hellenized local name) and the Baternae (Slavs) were allied with Histrians (Illyrians) etc..

"Zyraxes was a Getae king who ruled the northern part of what is today Dobrogea in the 1st century BC. He was mentioned in relation with the campaigns of Licinius Crassus. His capital, Genucla was besieged by the Romans in 28 BC, but he managed to escape and flee to his Scythian (Slavic) allies."

So we are reading here that Thracians and Illyrians were basically always in some contract with Slavs
we can assume there were intermarriages and everything. And that was EVEN BEFORE ROME
conquered these territories.

BASTERNAE GALLO-SCYTHIANS

While we tracked the origins of I2a1b haplogroup it has been discovered that it origins are in FRANCE (Celtic haplogroup)
that later due to circumstances moved East Southern Germany, Poland and Ukraine. Those people were identified
as Celtic people who mixed with Scythians.. that happened many years ago XXXX B.C. They were called Basternae
people.

It is THOSE people who migrated to Balkans in between 6th and 9th century in a larger scale, but they were already
Mixed, they were not R1a 100% Belarussian/Russian people.

And as we see, they migrated to Balkans WAY EARLIER than 6th century A.D which was one of many migrations
that happened from the XXXX B.C: to 10 century A.D.

Entire Western Ukraine, Southern Poland is full of I2a1b DIN we have on Balkans. Those are Celtic people who
later mixed with Illyrians, Thracians and Greeks, and those mix happened in IRON AGE not Early Medieval.

So when we Talk about Illyrians and Illyrian Roman Emperors, Thracian Roman Emperors we are absolutely
talking about Bosnian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian people... because THEY ARE THOSE people.

CULTURE AND LANGUAGE

Nobody can dismiss similarity between Romanians and Western Balkaners (not to mention Bulgarians etc..)
Now if Serbs for example score Romania and Bulgaria in top 3-4 with 3,4,5 distance, we can't say those are
two different people.

In Early Middle Ages Latin language was everywhere, and Slavic language was everywhere. Both Romania
and Balkans was Bilingual. Those who favored Latin were called Vlachs, while those who favored Slavic (Scythian)
language had other names, but the people were the same.

Now in later period certain Kings and Newly formed Nation favored Latin or Slavic so they assimilated opposing
group accordingly. So now we have Northern Macedonians (Ex FYROM's) who speak Slavic who are extremely
Native Balkan people and are no different to Northern Greeks in most cases.

CONCLUSION

Balkan people have Great history but pathetic present, never the less.. they need to first solve their history
issues before anything else because people without History can't progress.

[Blondie]

Scythians were not slavs, but iranic peoples:

"The Scythians (/ˈsɪθiən, ˈsɪð-/; from Greek Σκύθης, Σκύθοι), also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were Eurasian nomads, probably mostly using Eastern Iranian languages, who were mentioned by the literate peoples to their south as inhabiting large areas of the western and central Eurasian Steppe from about the 9th century BC up until the 4th century AD.[2][3][4][5] The "classical Scythians" known to ancient Greek historians, agreed to be mainly Iranian in origin, were located in the northern Black Sea and fore-Caucasus region. Other Scythian groups documented by Assyrian, Achaemenid and Chinese sources show that they also existed in Central Asia, where they were referred to as the Iskuzai/Askuzai, Saka (Old Persian: Sakā; New Persian/Pashto: ساکا‎; Sanskrit: शक Śaka; Greek: Σάκαι; Latin: Sacae), and Sai (Chinese: 塞; Old Chinese: *sˤək), respectively.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Slavic and iranic isn't same.

[Albobalboa]

"So when we Talk about Illyrians and Illyrian Roman Emperors, Thracian Roman Emperors we are absolutely
talking about Bosnian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Romanian people... because THEY ARE THOSE people."

Inferiority complex, does it hurt physically and mentally hurt to be a slav? If you lived at the same time as those Illyrian or Thracian emperors they wouldn't share neither blood, language, or culture with you. Not only that, but you carry the language and culture of the conquerers, the same people that ensured those Illyrians and Thracians and their civilization would cease to exist in most of the balkans. They would slit your throat.

You're, as you say, a literal bastard. Even your own kind raped your brains out and here you are using various coping methods, I'm sure a good psychologist could use you for some research on trauma processing.

[lonewolfcypriot]

who built the Bosnian pyramids?

[Bosniensis]

Scythians were not slavs, but iranic peoples:

"The Scythians (/ˈsɪθiən, ˈsɪð-/; from Greek Σκύθης, Σκύθοι), also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were Eurasian nomads, probably mostly using Eastern Iranian languages, who were mentioned by the literate peoples to their south as inhabiting large areas of the western and central Eurasian Steppe from about the 9th century BC up until the 4th century AD.[2][3][4][5] The "classical Scythians" known to ancient Greek historians, agreed to be mainly Iranian in origin, were located in the northern Black Sea and fore-Caucasus region. Other Scythian groups documented by Assyrian, Achaemenid and Chinese sources show that they also existed in Central Asia, where they were referred to as the Iskuzai/Askuzai, Saka (Old Persian: Sakā; New Persian/Pashto: ساکا‎; Sanskrit: शक Śaka; Greek: Σάκαι; Latin: Sacae), and Sai (Chinese: 塞; Old Chinese: *sˤək), respectively.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Slavic and iranic isn't same.

I have at least 30 of Evidences they are.

All written in Ancient Greek and confirmed correct.

Russian Academy of Sciences said: "Scythians are Slavs"

That is undisputed theory.. that what you read is old news.

That isn't even debatable.

[Bosniensis]

who built the Bosnian pyramids?

Nobody, that's probably just an entertainment from pseudo-archaeologist.

[lonewolfcypriot]

Nobody, that's probably just an entertainment from pseudo-archaeologist.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=6840079E56AC312DFAC82D15674A73D8210FD433&thid=OIP.GvK1y4WocERj_Op1u1WZpQHaFj&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trinfinity8.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2Fvisoko.jpg&exph=1050&expw=1400&q=bosnian+pyramids&selectedindex=7&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,6
are you sure?

[Bosniensis]

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=6840079E56AC312DFAC82D15674A73D8210FD433&thid=OIP.GvK1y4WocERj_Op1u1WZpQHaFj&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trinfinity8.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2Fvisoko.jpg&exph=1050&expw=1400&q=bosnian+pyramids&selectedindex=7&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,6
are you sure?

The only thing he found is Water Canals, nothing else. It's ridiculous.

Those canals were standard underground waterways.

[Blondie]

Just push the thumbs down muslimovic :D

"Scythia (UK: /ˈsɪðiə/, US: /ˈsɪθiə/;[2] from Greek Σκυθική, Skythikē) was a region of Central Eurasia in classical antiquity, occupied by the Eastern Iranian Scythians,[1][3][4] encompassing Central Asia and parts of Eastern Europe east of the Vistula River, with the eastern edges of the region vaguely defined by the Greeks. The Ancient Greeks gave the name Scythia (or Great Scythia) to all the lands north-east of Europe and the northern coast of the Black Sea.[5] "

Iranic and slavic peopels had different genetic, scythians had r1a-z93 iranic genetic:

"Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.

The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.

Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.

The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.

The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.

Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Indo-Iranian

Slavs belong to totally different branch:

"The origins of the Slavs go back to circa 3500 BCE with the northern Yamna culture and its expansion across Central and Northeast Europe with the Corded Ware culture. The M458 and Z280 lineages spread around Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and western Russia, and would form the core of the Proto-Balto-Slavic culture. The high prevalence of R1a in Baltic and Slavic countries nowadays is not only due to the Corded Ware expansion, but also to a long succession of later migrations from Russia, the last of which took place from the 5th to the 10th century CE. The Slavic branch differentiated itself when the Corded Ware culture absorbed the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture (5200-2600 BCE) of western Ukraine and north-eastern Romania, which appears to have been composed primarily of G2a-U1 et I2a1b-M423 lineages descended directly from Paleolithic Europeans, with some other Near-Eastern farmer lineages (notably E-V13, J2a and T1a). It is surely during this period that I2a2, E-V13 and T spread (along with R1a) around Poland, Belarus and western Russia, explaining why eastern and northern Slavs (and Lithuanians) have between 10 and 20% of I2a1b lineages and about 10% of Middle Eastern lineages (18% for Ukrainians)."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml#Slavic

[Token]

Pure pseudo-science.


I have at least 30 of Evidences they are.

All written in Ancient Greek and confirmed correct.

Russian Academy of Sciences said: "Scythians are Slavs"

That is undisputed theory.. that what you read is old news.

That isn't even debatable.
We have genetic results from Scythians all over Eurasia and no, they aren't closely related to Slavs.

[Ülev]

we have to publish this, I am the owner of small publishing firm

[Blondie]

I have at least 30 of Evidences they are.

All written in Ancient Greek and confirmed correct.

Russian Academy of Sciences said: "Scythians are Slavs"

That is undisputed theory.. that what you read is old news.

That isn't even debatable.

No, they aren't. Scythians spoke an iranic language and they bleong different r1a branch than slavs. Don't steal and don't spread pseudo-science :)

[Kaspias]

I have at least 30 of Evidences they are.

All written in Ancient Greek and confirmed correct.

Russian Academy of Sciences said: "Scythians are Slavs"

That is undisputed theory.. that what you read is old news.

That isn't even debatable.


Scythians were not slavs, but iranic peoples:

"The Scythians (/ˈsɪθiən, ˈsɪð-/; from Greek Σκύθης, Σκύθοι), also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were Eurasian nomads, probably mostly using Eastern Iranian languages, who were mentioned by the literate peoples to their south as inhabiting large areas of the western and central Eurasian Steppe from about the 9th century BC up until the 4th century AD.[2][3][4][5] The "classical Scythians" known to ancient Greek historians, agreed to be mainly Iranian in origin, were located in the northern Black Sea and fore-Caucasus region. Other Scythian groups documented by Assyrian, Achaemenid and Chinese sources show that they also existed in Central Asia, where they were referred to as the Iskuzai/Askuzai, Saka (Old Persian: Sakā; New Persian/Pashto: ساکا‎; Sanskrit: शक Śaka; Greek: Σάκαι; Latin: Sacae), and Sai (Chinese: 塞; Old Chinese: *sˤək), respectively.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Slavic and iranic isn't same.

"Scythian" is a general term refers all of Steppe migrators. This term includes both Slavs and Iranics with a lot more people. I wonder when people will learn this basic terminology.

[Blondie]

Pure pseudo-science.


We have genetic results from Scythians all over Eurasia and no, they aren't closely related to Slavs.

Muslimovic claim that modern turks are pure romans :D This guy is amazing :D

[lonewolfcypriot]

"Scythian" is a general term refers all of Steppe migrators. This term includes both Slavs and Iranics with a lot more people. I wonder when people will learn this basic terminology.

so there's no such thing as a Scythian language or identity then? Just a term that means people from Central Asia?

[Bosniensis]

"Scythian" is a general term refers all of Steppe migrators. This term includes both Slavs and Iranics with a lot more people. I wonder when people will learn this basic terminology.

Emperor Heraclius said:

"I need to talk with Scythian Tribes Serbs, Croats"

Russian invasion of Constantinople

"Rus' people of Scythian Origin"

"Language in Dalmatia is Scythian and Latin"

DNA Samples of Serbian people match with "Scythian samples"

SLAV = TERM INVENTED IN 6th Century A.D.

That term NEVER EXISTED.


Scythian = Scythe (weapon to cut leaves and trees)

Cossack capital was called = Sich like Zaporozhie Sich

Sichari = Scythians.

Scythian is a Native Herodotian name for "Slavs"

[Kaspias]

so there's no such thing as a Scythian language or identity then? Just a term that means people from Central Asia?

There are. "Scythia" region was not only Iranic, that is the point.

[Moje ime]

Balkan Slavs
have been under a Roman and Ottoman Empire for the last 2000 years with only a decade/two randomly independent.



I almost stop reading there.

[Peterski]

We have genetic results from Scythians all over Eurasia and no, they aren't closely related to Slavs.

Scythians weren't a homogeneous group, but formed ca. 5 different genetic clusters:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

https://i.imgur.com/lOHbCz3.png

Individual Scythian009 (scy009) was very similar to present-day Slavic populations.

[Kaspias]

Emperor Heraclius said:

"I need to talk with Scythian Tribes Serbs, Croats"

Russian invasion of Constantinople

"Rus' people of Scythian Origin"

"Language in Dalmatia is Scythian and Latin"

DNA Samples of Serbian people match with "Scythian samples"

SLAV = TERM INVENTED IN 6th Century A.D.

That term NEVER EXISTED.


Scythian = Scythe (weapon to cut leaves and trees)

Cossack capital was called = Sich like Zaporozhie Sich

Sichari = Scythians.

Scythian is a Native Herodotian name for "Slavs"

I can claim that all Scythians were Turk with similar linguistic hypothesis :D

[Bosniensis]

I almost stop reading there.

I wanted to say that people were randomly independent for a few decades then again back under Byzantine, Hungarain, Ottoman, German authority.

[Bosniensis]

I can claim that all Scythians were Turk with similar linguistic hypothesis :D

No. Because Turks are called Turks.

Byzantines clearly distinguished Turkic Tribes from Scythians.

They were saying "Scythian Tribe" but when they fought Turks they were identifying them with Persian and other Eastern Peoples not Scythians.

[Moje ime]

I wanted to say that people were randomly independent for a few decades then again back under Byzantine, Hungarain, Ottoman, German authority.

You didn't mention Serbian Kingdom that gave clear identity to Serbian people. You talk like we never had a state and identity.

[lonewolfcypriot]

There are. "Scythia" region was not only Iranic, that is the point.

your confusing me now

[Bosniensis]

You didn't mention Serbian Kingdom that gave clear identity to Serbian people. You talk like we never had a state and identity.

Why would I? People of modern day Serbia had identity and language they speak today even before term "Serbian" existed.

Most of Serbian Despots and rulers were Vassals of Roman Empire, Ecumenal Patriarchy never allowed secession from Roman Empire and
any attempt was considered Heresy.

Only Emperor Dusan the Mighty created Empire but only because he want to be Emperor of Romans, and he argued with E. Patriarchate that
his only goal is to Conquer Constantinople and restore "Illyrian" influence in Empire, he even boasted how he want basically to succeed Constantine the Great.

With Ottomans was similar except that Islam was promoted.

[Kaspias]

No. Because Turks are called Turks.

Byzantines clearly distinguished Turkic Tribes from Scythians.

They were saying "Scythian Tribe" but when they fought Turks they were identifying them with Persian and other Eastern Peoples not Scythians.

Pre-Turks are divided into two large groups. ONs (Hun) and OQs. The Scythians are from the OQ of the Pre-Turks. We're reading Scythian Turkish in the 12 gold cup in the Şzent-Miklos treasure. In the text from beginning to end, each cup was written in a separate verse. In the first of these, pre-Turkish:


"OQ Ësibiz OY Ëzisiyiz" means holy thoughts of OQ nation.

"UÇ-ËSİG ËL AT" Uç = Leader, Ësig = Ethic, ËL = People, At = Name

Herodot wrote this as "ASKOLAT", Greeks wrote as SKYTH. In Byzantine, it is recorded as SCUTAI. In addition, in Istanbul there is a borough called Üsküdar, comes from Scutai.

I have just claimed Scythians were Turks by using a linguistic approach.

[Dušan]

Why would I? People of modern day Serbia had identity and language they speak today even before term "Serbian" existed.

Most of Serbian Despots and rulers were Vassals of Roman Empire, Ecumenal Patriarchy never allowed secession from Roman Empire and
any attempt was considered Heresy.

Only Emperor Dusan the Mighty created Empire but only because he want to be Emperor of Romans, and he argued with E. Patriarchate that
his only goal is to Conquer Constantinople and restore "Illyrian" influence in Empire, he even boasted how he want basically to succeed Constantine the Great.

With Ottomans was similar except that Islam was promoted.

Not true.
We had independent kingdom since 1217. and independent Church since 1219.

That's not several decades as you said, but several centuries.

[Cumansky]

Your history is good I generally agree with everything, but I have correct few things:

I2a1b is indigenous eastern Mediterranean tribe I don't even use Balkan because our culture has been linked with ancient city Troy and Trojan War in northwest Anatolia, lookup Ezero-Cernavoda III Culture. No Celtic, this not western European or northern European. If waves of I2 migrated in the northwest Europe direction OK, there is proof of that in Y-Full and coresponding subclades, but root origin eastern Mediterranean.

Scythians origin north of Caspian Sea, north Iranic origin. They connected everything. Most important ancient tribe, to understand history, fact. They were probably Sintashta/BMAC like in origin and obviously nomad. In many migration waves and centuries it took to assimilate the entire Eurasia, that is why similarity exists now between Slavic populace Western Scythians also known as Royal Scythians associated closest with modern Ukrainian admixture, then you got other Scythians Pazyryk into northern India Scythians, Maykop Scythians into northern Persia, etc but we are all related distantly also some Scythian assimilate western Europe and ofcourse Balkan as you explain in detail.

Modern Russian, Belarusian= NOT PURE SLAVIC I will write in capital letter until this understood.

Thracians, Illyrians indigenous east Balkan and west Balkan. The originals. They mixed and they stayed separate. The mixing of Thracians and Illyrians is best represented in the modern ethnogenesis of Balkan Slavic populace. Albanians don't stand this fact I know.

[Crimson Winds]

Western Scytians whom infulenced Balkanites were mostly Iranic speaking dudes with alien genetics(like %50 North European+%40 North Caucasian+%10 Kazakh). None of them cluster with Slavs but Moldovian samples.

[Ayetooey]

Slavs settled in empty land and were INVITED by the Romans to deal with the avars. The idea that the slavs destroyed the Illyrians, Thracians etc is a joke, these groups were long gone in any meaningful sense due to Romanisation, Avar raids + plagues and famine which left most of the region depopulated.

South Slavs plot more south due to sun exposure; the tanning added extra med.

[pulstar]

Another "What will happen if I fall into a black hole" thread. Here's more material:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMqtoEZBw4c

[Token]

Scythians weren't a homogeneous group, but formed ca. 5 different genetic clusters:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457

Individual Scythian009 (scy009) was very similar to present-day Slavic populations.

Late Scythians, after assimilating a bunch people ranging from Hungary to Greece to Siberia, were indeed very mixed, but have you at least read the abstract of the paper?


The nomadic populations were heterogeneous and carried genetic affinities with populations from several other regions including the Far East and the southern Urals. We found evidence of a stable shared genetic signature, making the eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe a likely source of western nomadic groups

the Sarmatians fell between all other nomads that form the bulk of the SC, suggesting that southern Urals is where the continuity of western nomads was sustained.

Multiway f4 statistics testing the relationships between Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya, Cimmerians, and Scythians revealed that both Scythians and Cimmerians formed a clade together with Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya to the exclusion of the other population and that Srubnaya/-Alakulskaya was closer to Scythians among the two (Fig. 3C and table S17). The results point to the presence of a deep shared ancestry of all Iron Age nomadic groups associated with Bronze Age populations of the steppe, which, however, is not equivalent with a direct genetic continuity between Srubnaya-Alakulskaya and the western Scythians.

one individual from Nesterivka (scy011), which was the most recent of the Scythians, and possibly representing a transition between different groups, carried a distinct resemblance to the later steppe Sarmatians, corroborating the idea of a more “stable”/”common” steppe signature shared with all Sarmatians

The 'steppe' cluster is named like that because it is where early Iranic nomads (including the Scythians) are supposed to cluster before extensive assimilation of locals from all over Eurasia:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/4/10/eaat4457/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

[Bosniensis]

Pre-Turks are divided into two large groups. ONs (Hun) and OQs. The Scythians are from the OQ of the Pre-Turks. We're reading Scythian Turkish in the 12 gold cup in the Şzent-Miklos treasure. In the text from beginning to end, each cup was written in a separate verse. In the first of these, pre-Turkish:


"OQ Ësibiz OY Ëzisiyiz" means holy thoughts of OQ nation.

"UÇ-ËSİG ËL AT" Uç = Leader, Ësig = Ethic, ËL = People, At = Name

Herodot wrote this as "ASKOLAT", Greeks wrote as SKYTH. In Byzantine, it is recorded as SCUTAI. In addition, in Istanbul there is a borough called Üsküdar, comes from Scutai.

I have just claimed Scythians were Turks by using a linguistic approach.

What was the name for "Slavs" in 5 century B.C. then?

They didn't exist?

They must have existed under a SINGLE name.

[TeutonicBoyars]

Slavs settled in empty land and were INVITED by the Romans to deal with the avars.

Interesting; I've never heard this. If you don't mind can you maybe tell me a little more context and where you found this? I know the Byzantines employed Barbarian tribes for mercenary work, but I've never heard of the Slavs being recruited specifically to deal with the Avars, who were quite powerful IIRC.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Interesting; I've never heard this. If you don't mind can you maybe tell me a little more context and where you found this? I know the Byzantines employed Barbarian tribes for mercenary work, but I've never heard of the Slavs being recruited specifically to deal with the Avars, who were quite powerful IIRC.

Croats fought and subjugated Avars, but there is no mention of other Slavs doing that. In fact, they subjugated many of Avar Slavic allies togheder with them.


“But the Croats at that time were dwelling beyond Bavaria, where the Belocroats are now. From them split off a family of five brothers, Kloukas and Lobelos and Kosentzis and Mouchlo and Chrobatos, and two sisters, Touga and Bouga, who came with their folk to Dalmatia and found the Avars in possession of that land. After they had fought one another for some years, the Croats prevailed and killed some of the Avars and the remainder they compelled to be subject to them. And so from that time this land was possessed by the Croats, and there are still in Croatia some who are of Avar descent and are recognized as Avars''.

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Administrando_Imperio

[Voskos]

BASTERNAE

Yep

[Moje ime]

Interesting; I've never heard this. If you don't mind can you maybe tell me a little more context and where you found this? I know the Byzantines employed Barbarian tribes for mercenary work, but I've never heard of the Slavs being recruited specifically to deal with the Avars, who were quite powerful IIRC.

"The Croats and Serbs of Byzantine Dalmatia initiated diplomatic relations and dependencies with Heraclius.[47] The Serbs, who briefly lived in Macedonia, became foederati and were baptized at the request of Heraclius (before 626).[47][48] At his request, Pope John IV (640–642) sent Christian teachers and missionaries to Duke Porga and his Croats, who practiced Slavic paganism.[49] He also created the office of sakellarios, a comptroller of the treasury"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius

[Papastratosels26]

When the South Slavs migrated alongside with the Avars they slaughtered the old inhabitants where they settled.

Now the theory that Balkan people descended from the pre-Slavic population is a laughable.

[Moje ime]

When the South Slavs migrated alongside with the Avars they slaughtered the old inhabitants where they settled.



False.

[Peterski]

Late Scythians

Which is the same Scythians who were described by Herodotus and other ancient authors (and if you read these descriptions they actually say that the Scythians were heterogenous and consisted of several different "races" - they were also heterogenous in lifestyles, not all of them were nomads, those in the north were farmers, likely descended from people of the Chernoles archaeological culture).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernoles_culture

We don't even know if "Early Scythians" called themselves Scythians, to be honest. This name is known from written sources.

The same can be said about Cimmerians - only Late Cimmerians were known under this name (in times of Herodotus there existed only remnants of Cimmerians, who had been largely displaced by the Scythians by then).

[Papastratosels26]

False.From the Danube, the Slavs commenced raiding the Byzantine Empire from the 520s, on an annual basis, spreading destruction, taking loot and herds of cattle, seizing prisoners and taking fortresses. Often, the Byzantine Empire was stretched defending its rich Asian provinces from Arabs, Persians and others. This meant that even numerically small, disorganised early Slavic raids were capable of causing much disruption, but could not capture the larger, fortified cities.[15] The first Slavic raid south of the Danube was recorded by Procopius, who mentions an attack of the Antes, "who dwell close to the Sclaveni", probably in 518.[18] Sclaveni are first mentioned in the context of the military policy on the Danube frontier of Byzantine Emperor Justinian I (r. 527–565).[19] Throughout the century, Slavs raided and plundered deep into the Balkans, from Dalmatia to Greece and Thrace, and were also at times recruited as mercenaries, fighting the Ostrogoths.[20] Justinian seems to have used divide and conquer and the Sclaveni and Antes are mentioned as fighting each other.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs

Keywords:spreading destruction, taking loot and cattle, seizing fortress.

[Moje ime]

From the Danube, the Slavs commenced raiding the Byzantine Empire from the 520s, on an annual basis, spreading destruction, taking loot and herds of cattle, seizing prisoners and taking fortresses. Often, the Byzantine Empire was stretched defending its rich Asian provinces from Arabs, Persians and others. This meant that even numerically small, disorganised early Slavic raids were capable of causing much disruption, but could not capture the larger, fortified cities.[15] The first Slavic raid south of the Danube was recorded by Procopius, who mentions an attack of the Antes, "who dwell close to the Sclaveni", probably in 518.[18] Sclaveni are first mentioned in the context of the military policy on the Danube frontier of Byzantine Emperor Justinian I (r. 527–565).[19] Throughout the century, Slavs raided and plundered deep into the Balkans, from Dalmatia to Greece and Thrace, and were also at times recruited as mercenaries, fighting the Ostrogoths.[20] Justinian seems to have used divide and conquer and the Sclaveni and Antes are mentioned as fighting each other.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs

Keywords:spreading destruction, taking loot and cattle, seizing fortress.

"Traditional historiography, based on DAI, holds that the migration of Serbs and Croats to the Balkans was part of a second Slavic wave, placed during Heraclius' reign.[36] These two peoples were said to have been invited into the Empire to protect it from the Avars. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs

[Token]

Which is the same Scythians who were described by Herodotus and other ancient authors (and if you read these descriptions they actually say that the Scythians were heterogenous and consisted of several different "races" - they were also heterogenous in lifestyles, not all of them were nomads, those in the north were farmers, likely descended from people of the Chernoles archaeological culture).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernoles_culture

We don't even know if "Early Scythians" called themselves Scythians, to be honest. This name is known from written sources.

The same can be said about Cimmerians - only Late Cimmerians were known under this name (in times of Herodotus there existed only remnants of Cimmerians, who had been largely displaced by the Scythians by then).

So what are you trying to tell me? That Proto-Slavs were travelling in the Eurasian steppe with people from all over Eurasia by the classical period before suddenly branching off and expanding explosively into Europe ca 5th century? Come on dude.

[Pribislav]

I have at least 30 of Evidences they are.

All written in Ancient Greek and confirmed correct.

Russian Academy of Sciences said: "Scythians are Slavs"

That is undisputed theory.. that what you read is old news.

That isn't even debatable.

Deretić is very right when he say that Russians are obsessed with Scythians. He is also right when say that civilization was not born in stepe :no:, and when say Scythians speak 7 different languages because there was no Scythian people but different peoples living in East Europe and Central Asian called with common name "Scythians" by Romans and Greeks.

[Bosniensis]

Deretić is very right when he say that Russians are obsessed with Scythians. He is also right when say that civilization was not born in stepe :no:, and when say Scythians speak 7 different languages because there was no Scythian people but different peoples living in East Europe and Central Asian called with common name "Scythians" by Romans and Greeks.

I believe that R1a is true Scythian while I2a1b is from Eastern and Western Balkan people who went North and North East and mixed with R1a.

Basically everything from Northern Greece to Scandinavia was Balkan - Slavic mixed territory since ever.

[Pribislav]

I believe that R1a is true Scythian while I2a1b is from Eastern and Western Balkan people who went North and North East and mixed with R1a.

Basically everything from Northern Greece to Scandinavia was Balkan - Slavic mixed territory since ever.

Scythians never existed as unique people. :no:

[Bosniensis]

Scythians never existed as unique people. :no:

Russians love to say they are Scythians, let's assume their mix is exactly that what was called Scythians then it also falls to that we are Scythian + Balkan mix.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmeLVVtR0A

[Pribislav]

Russians love to say they are Scythians, let's assume their mix is exactly that what was called Scythians then it also falls to that we are Scythian + Balkan mix.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmeLVVtR0A

Those are Russian fantasies created in the time of Sovietia.

Russian history today is mostly based on Soviet lies.
Russian historians and intrelectual elite are soviets, like Serbian ones are šugosloveni.

[Bosniensis]

Those are Russian fantasies created in the time of Sovietia.

Russian history today is mostly based on Soviet lies.
Russian historians and intrelectual elite are soviets, like Serbian ones are šugosloveni.

Well I have compared myself with Ancient samples and got 50% Scythian (Ukraine, Russia) and 50% Roman (Tuscan, Greek etc..)

How do you see Russian nation and their origin? How were they called in Iron Age?

[Pribislav]

Well I have compared myself with Ancient samples and got 50% Scythian (Ukraine, Russia) and 50% Roman (Tuscan, Greek etc..)

How do you see Russian nation and their origin? How were they called in Iron Age?

The was no Russian nation in Iron age, as there was no any present day nation in that time.

European nations were created in the middle age and later.

[Bosniensis]

The was no Russian nation in Iron age, as there was no any present day nation in that time.

European nations were created in the middle age and later.

I was not talking about nations but Tribes, Tribal formations existed both German, Balkan, Celtic tribes etc.. out of which Tribes Russian came to be?

[Pribislav]

I was not talking about nations but Tribes, Tribal formations existed both German, Balkan, Celtic tribes etc.. out of which Tribes Russian came to be?

Russians cames from many tribes, some of them were not even Slavic.

Every person has over 1 000 000 ancestors 1000 years in the past. If you think that all of your 1 000 000 ancestors spoke same language, recognized themselves as same ethicity and believed in same God you are very wrong!

[Papastratosels26]

The Balkan Slav are the same with rest of the Slavs. East Slavs, West Slavs.

Also user Jana said that the paleo-balkan population seek refuge in the Dalmatian Islands after the Slavic migrations.

[Cumansky]

Scythian= modern north Balkan
Avar= modern east Slavic

I talk about the samples they used mytrueancestry.com

[Papastratosels26]

The Balkan Slav are the same with rest of the Slavs. East Slavs, West Slavs.

Also user Jana said that the paleo-balkan population seek refuge in the Dalmatian Islands after the Slavic migrations.Found it.


It has been suggested that the Sclaveni were the ancestors of the Serbo-Croatian group while the Antes were that of theBulgarianSlavs, with much mixture in the contact zones.[29]The diminished pre-Slavic inhabitants (including also Romanized native peoples[a]) fled Barbarian invasions and sought refuge inside fortified cities and islands, whilst others fled to remote mountains and forests and adopted atranshumantlifestyle.[30]The Romance-speakers within the fortifiedDalmatian city-statesmanaged to retain their culture and language for a long time.[31]

[Cumansky]

Well I have compared myself with Ancient samples and got 50% Scythian (Ukraine, Russia) and 50% Roman (Tuscan, Greek etc..)

How do you see Russian nation and their origin? How were they called in Iron Age?

Scythia than later Tartaria, and borders was different than modern Russia. Some of your origin from there.

[Pribislav]

The Balkan Slav are the same with rest of the Slavs. East Slavs, West Slavs.

Also user Jana said that the paleo-balkan population seek refuge in the Dalmatian Islands after the Slavic migrations.

Western Balkan Latin speakers mostly were destroyed by Goths and Avars, those who survived moved to cities of East Adriatic coast and on some islands. That cities has strong fortesses and some of them preserved Romance identity to the 12th/13th century. In Dubrovnik Latin language dominated to the 13th century. In 13th century Dubrovnik became pred. Slavic speaking, but elite still used Latin to 15th century. Dalmatian (Romance) language totally disappeared in Dubrovnik in 16th century.

Montenegro preserved more Romance population than other continental regions of western Balkan.
Latin speaking Vlach tribes Kriči, Mataruge, Španji and Bukumiri lived in mountains of Montenegro and they were slavized in the late middle age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mataruge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Španji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukumiri

[Papastratosels26]

According to the hypothesis, the Sclaveni probably are the ancestors of Serb-Croats and Antes are the ancestors of Bulgarians. It just a hypothesis.

[Pribislav]

According to the hypothesis, the Sclaveni probably are the ancestors of Serb-Croats and Antes are the ancestors of Bulgarians. It just a hypothesis.

According to one theory I2a1b2a1 came from Sclaveni. This is the strongest haplogroup among Serbs and Croatians.

[Dick]

guess the I-M170 Scythian


https://i.imgur.com/JwRJzok.jpg

[Pribislav]

@ Dick

Drobnjaks/Novljani (I1-P109) destroyed 2 Vlach tribes - Mataruge and Kriči.

[Dušan]

When the South Slavs migrated alongside with the Avars they slaughtered the old inhabitants where they settled.

Now the theory that Balkan people descended from the pre-Slavic population is a laughable.

Not true.
Some pre-Slavic paleo-Balkan population is assimilated and icorporated into South Slavs.

Why do we get 30-40% or someone get even 50% Greek or Italian Abruzzo component in autosomal analysis???

[Ayetooey]

guess the I-M170 Scythian


..

One of these men is R1a, the other I2a1b proto Scythian.

https://www.serbianmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Vucic-i-Putin.jpg

[Dna8]

The depopulation of the Balkans need not have been accompanied by a paralleling deterioration of Greco Roman cultural influence.

[Pribislav]

One of these men is R1a, the other I2a1b proto Scythian.

https://www.serbianmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Vucic-i-Putin.jpg

Vučić - most likely R1b-BY611 (his paternal ancestors were Cincars/Aromanians and came from Moscopole)

Putin - most likely N1c (he is from Tver oblast where Karelians settled in 14th century, and he looks Karelian)

[Pribislav]

I believe that R1a is true Scythian while I2a1b is from Eastern and Western Balkan people who went North and North East and mixed with R1a.

Basically everything from Northern Greece to Scandinavia was Balkan - Slavic mixed territory since ever.

https://i.postimg.cc/PfYT50qf/IMG-20190505-221744.jpg

Deal with it!