View Full Version : I have some doubts in Aryans migration and their genetic history.
Viçwamitra
05-05-2019, 02:02 PM
I have some doubts in Aryan migration pattern, i hope some of you can answer my question.
(Note : wheni use Aryan i mean Real Aryans or Indo-Iranians)
According to latest studies, ancestors of Indians are from Yamnaya with brown hair, eyes, tall but with light brown skin who went northwards and intermarried with corded ware culture who where light haired and eyed and migrated back to central Asia and founded Andronovo culture. And later migrated/colonized Iranian and Indian lands.
but,
1) Yamnaya were predominantly R1b while Andronovo was predominantly R1a_z93, same lineage as Upper caste brahmins(75%), Kirgyz Turks (60%) Pashtuns( 55%), Rajputs and Tajiks (40%), Iranians, turkmens (30%) etc while R1a is very rare y dna among these listed ethnicities.
How their Y dna changed completely is both Yamnaya and Andronovo were from same origin ?
2) corded were light haired and eyed predominantly like Nordics whole Yamnaya were brown haired and skinned, according to recent studies there was little to no difference between people of Yamyana and Corded were culture genetically. How can both be similar genetically why have different racial characteristics is beyond my understanding.
3) also Corded ware culture mummies are 75% similar to Germans and carry R1b lineage not r1a, so how come like yamnaya they became ancestors of R1a andronovo of Central Asia ?
4) Also Yamnaya mummies have over 20% pure west Asian(middle eastern) blood on average, while Modern western Europeans of same r1b line age have almost only 2% to 5% West Asian blood.
5)"Haak et al. (2015) note that German Corded Ware "trace ~75% of their ancestry to the Yamna,"[29]envisioning a west-north-west migration from the Yamna culture into Germany."
So predominantly swarthy yamnaya with 20% pure middle eastern blood suddenly became Fair haired, skinned, eyed Nordics when they moved into CWC when they moved there and became majority(nearly 75%)
7) they are saying that Semi Nomadic Aryans migrated from (R1b)Yamnaya grasslands to snowy, dark, forested region of Europe (CWC-R1b) for god know what reason get after some hundred years were like "Fuck it, we do t like this place, let's go back" and moved from corded ware to Center Asia(R1a_z93)(changed their father's magically!) Instead of Their own original homeland and later instead of going through highly useful grasslands of central Asia for cattles they moved to the age of Altai mountains and traveled via small roots to Afghanistan and later into Iran and India leaving rich and underpopulated central Asia for others.
i hope some of you who have studied genetics and anthropology will be able to answer my queries.
JQP4545
05-05-2019, 05:00 PM
Hunter gatherers from Eastern Europe and Scandinavia had alleles for blonde hair and blue eyes and this is still a large part of the the ancestry in people from Northern Europe. Where are the studies which say that Yamnaya was dark haired and brown eyed? A few samples are not necessarily representative of all of the Steppe population. Red hair is common in the Steppe and is also found in high frequencies in the parts of Europe with Yamnaya ancestry. Brown hair and eyes are also still dominant in much of Corded Ware territory. The reason why you find R1a in Central Asia and R1b in Europe is because the Indo Europeans were not necessarily homogeneous.
sailormoon
05-06-2019, 06:09 PM
1) Yamnaya were predominantly R1b while Andronovo was predominantly R1a_z93, same lineage as Upper caste brahmins(75%), Kirgyz Turks (60%) Pashtuns( 55%), Rajputs and Tajiks (40%), Iranians, turkmens (30%) etc while R1a is very rare y dna among these listed ethnicities.
R1a-Z282 is common in Central and Eastern Europe, while R1a-Z93 is specific to Central Asia where the Andronovo culture flourished. The Yamnaya and Andronovo peoples were racially distinct from each other as no R1a1a was found in ancient Yamnaya samples. What they had in common is their steppe culture and PIE language. R1a-Z93 is a Proto-Indo-Iranian haplogroup that emerged in the vicinity of present-day Iran and diversified in the Eurasian steppe. The roots of Z93 lie in West Asia and it expanded in a southeasterly direction into South Asia. R1a-Z93 was passed on to the Scythian population and Turkic-speaking groups of Northwestern China. R1a-Z93 is the marker of historical peoples such as the Indo-Aryans, Persians, Medes, Mitanni, or Tatars.
https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/indo-european-indo-iranian-migrations-1024x448.jpg
One more interesting issue in this aspect is the case of the Andronovo
culture. Although most of the area covered by the Andronovo culture are
regions where Z93 is predominant within R1a, the historical corea area from
where Andronovo spread, was in the Ural-Idel region, ie. closer to Yamna
and Corded Ware territory than to Afanasevo, and in a region, where Z282
make up the vast majority of indigenous R1a today.
This would suggest a Z282 superstrate and a Z93 substrate forming Andronovo. Among later subclades, the geographical range of the Volga-Carpathian subclade suggests an origin linked not to the Corded Ware culture, but to the Scythian cultures originating from Andronovo, as it is spread along the Pontic steppes, in Southern Russia, Ukraine, Hungary, and Poland. At the same time, the Volga-Carpathian subclade, as a subclade of Z282, suggests Z282 presence in the Scythian population thus, in the Andronovo culture as well.
The problem is the hitherto absence of R1a even in samples from prehistoric cultures where data is relatively abundant, and where its present day microsatellite variance would suggest its origins. Present-day microsatellite variance would suggest the origin of European R1a somewhere around present day Turkey and Iran.114
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9329/36afa25b9fc4a241e1e80c9d2354eec544ea.pdf
I have some doubts in Aryan migration pattern, i hope some of you can answer my question.
(Note : wheni use Aryan i mean Real Aryans or Indo-Iranians)
According to latest studies, ancestors of Indians are from Yamnaya with brown hair, eyes, tall but with light brown skin who went northwards and intermarried with corded ware culture who where light haired and eyed and migrated back to central Asia and founded Andronovo culture. And later migrated/colonized Iranian and Indian lands.
but,
1) Yamnaya were predominantly R1b while Andronovo was predominantly R1a_z93, same lineage as Upper caste brahmins(75%), Kirgyz Turks (60%) Pashtuns( 55%), Rajputs and Tajiks (40%), Iranians, turkmens (30%) etc while R1a is very rare y dna among these listed ethnicities.
How their Y dna changed completely is both Yamnaya and Andronovo were from same origin ?
2) corded were light haired and eyed predominantly like Nordics whole Yamnaya were brown haired and skinned, according to recent studies there was little to no difference between people of Yamyana and Corded were culture genetically. How can both be similar genetically why have different racial characteristics is beyond my understanding.
3) also Corded ware culture mummies are 75% similar to Germans and carry R1b lineage not r1a, so how come like yamnaya they became ancestors of R1a andronovo of Central Asia ?
4) Also Yamnaya mummies have over 20% pure west Asian(middle eastern) blood on average, while Modern western Europeans of same r1b line age have almost only 2% to 5% West Asian blood.
5)"Haak et al. (2015) note that German Corded Ware "trace ~75% of their ancestry to the Yamna,"[29]envisioning a west-north-west migration from the Yamna culture into Germany."
So predominantly swarthy yamnaya with 20% pure middle eastern blood suddenly became Fair haired, skinned, eyed Nordics when they moved into CWC when they moved there and became majority(nearly 75%)
7) they are saying that Semi Nomadic Aryans migrated from (R1b)Yamnaya grasslands to snowy, dark, forested region of Europe (CWC-R1b) for god know what reason get after some hundred years were like "Fuck it, we do t like this place, let's go back" and moved from corded ware to Center Asia(R1a_z93)(changed their father's magically!) Instead of Their own original homeland and later instead of going through highly useful grasslands of central Asia for cattles they moved to the age of Altai mountains and traveled via small roots to Afghanistan and later into Iran and India leaving rich and underpopulated central Asia for others.
i hope some of you who have studied genetics and anthropology will be able to answer my queries.
1,Corded Ware most likely didnt stem directly from the Yamnaya,they just had a Yamnaya like ancestry,most probably from the northern fringes of the Yamna horizont who could have been R1a for all we know.Both R1b and R1a are present in eastern european mesolithic foragers,different tribes probably had different R hgs.
2,Phenotype does not equal genotype,the northern Yamna horizont could have been blonde and blue eyed for all we know,could have had less CHG or in the Corded Ware some features became dominant through positive selection.
3,Answered in 1.
4,Corded Ware was already a mixture of steppe and native old europeans and the steppe part of their dna became more diluted through the centuries.That west-asian isnt ME per se btw,its Caucasian Hunter Gatherer which differs quiet a lot from the Natufian like admixture present in Levantines.
5,Again,a few phenotype snps doesnt change anything,we dont have enough data but positive selection can do wonders in a few centuries,the yamnayans did carry snps for light pigmentation after all and most likely so did the baltic HG-s.
6,CWC was R1a not R1b but both of these haplogroups can be found in later Indo-European populations together as well as in the mesolithic ukraine,be it CWC,Beakers or even the Scythians and Sarmatians later,Y chromosomes can be indicative of a migration but it can change really fast when two populations intermix, even autosomally related people.
7,You imagine it wrong,it wasnt a large scale migration where every single person from a given culture(which are rather arbitrary anyways as no such thing as a CWC was aknowledged back then) migrated from one point to another.It happened slowly,different tribes pushed each other in different directions just because we speak of CWC or Yamnaya it doesnt mean that it was a unified culture because it wasnt.
Viçwamitra
05-06-2019, 06:57 PM
Understood, but me and my family (paternal lineage) looks nearly 100% similar to yamnaya busts while according to dna studies over 3/4 of my people have R1azo3 li rahe not R1b of yamnaya.
Any possible explanation ?
R1a-Z282 is common in Central and Eastern Europe, while R1a-Z93 is specific to Central Asia where the Andronovo culture flourished. The Yamnaya and Andronovo peoples were racially distinct from each other as no R1a1a was found in ancient Yamnaya samples. What they had in common is their steppe culture and PIE language. R1a-Z93 is a Proto-Indo-Iranian haplogroup that emerged in the vicinity of present-day Iran and diversified in the Eurasian steppe. The roots of Z93 lie in West Asia and it expanded in a southeasterly direction into South Asia. R1a-Z93 was passed on to the Scythian population and Turkic-speaking groups of Northwestern China. R1a-Z93 is the marker of historical peoples such as the Indo-Aryans, Persians, Medes, Mitanni, or Tatars.Vedic Sanskrit is very close to Avestan. I know that a lot people consider Avesta as proto-Iranic. But from what I know and studied Avestan was actually proto-Eastern Iranic.
With other words, Sanskrit was closer to the proto-Eastern Iranic than to the Western Iranic spoken in Kurdistan.
According to Tamaz V. Gamkrelidze and Russian linguist Vyacheslav Ivanov 'Graeco-Aryan' emerged in Western Asia and not in the Steppes. In the Steppes we only witness 'eastern Iranian' dialects. Why, because already during the era of the Mitanni Indo-Iranian and even Iranian languages were diverged. There were already different groups within Iranic family during the Mitanni Aryans.
Also, as evidence for that we have the Mycenaean and Hittites DNA. All those people were J2a. My conclusion is that Aryan was a hybride language of different hg. like J2a, G2a, R2a, R1a, L1 and R1a-Z93. East Iranian more Z93, while West Iranian (closer to the source) more J2a.
Here you can find a lot great info from the Indology frofessor Italian guy Giacomo Benedetti. He wrote a lot about Aryans and Indo-Aryans.
http://new-indology.blogspot.com/
http://new-indology.blogspot.com/2017/05/were-mitanni-really-indo-aryans.html
Graeco-Aryan group was mostly J2a with some minor ancient R1b. Mycenaeans (Hellenics/Graeco-) and Hittites (Anatolian IEans) were mostly J2a. I'm sure that proto-Aryans that diverged from Graeco-Aryan group were also mostly J2a.
Only AFTER they migrated eastward deep into the Iranian Plateau and South Central Asia (BMAC) they got much more R1a-Z93.
Indo Europeans were not necessarily homogeneous.True. IEans are not a homogeneous group at all. It is a linguistical classification and not a racial one.
Even within East Iranic Scythians in Central Asia, who were Iranized by BMAC, there was a very huge diversity.
Scythians were very diverse because they were Iranized by the outsiders. Aryans (East Iranians) Iranized EVERYBODY in the Steppes regardless of the ethnicity of the Steppes people. Diversity in ancient Scythians means that those folks were not similar to each other before they were Iranized by folks from BMAC. New paper on Scythians and other East Iranic speakers in the Steppes. VERY diverse people! https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3346985
Understood, but me and my family (paternal lineage) looks nearly 100% similar to yamnaya busts while according to dna studies over 3/4 of my people have R1azo3 li rahe not R1b of yamnaya.
Any possible explanation ?
Y-chromosome doesnt code any phenotype snps,it has nothing to do with how you look,you could simply look more yamnaya-like because of your elevated steppe admix,an Andronovo-BMAC mixture which actually moved to south-asia could have produced such a phenotype too.As Andronovo moved to South-Asia they mixed a lot with CHG heavy populations.
Viçwamitra
05-07-2019, 10:49 AM
Y-chromosome doesnt code any phenotype snps,it has nothing to do with how you look,you could simply look more yamnaya-like because of your elevated steppe admix,an Andronovo-BMAC mixture which actually moved to south-asia could have produced such a phenotype too.As Andronovo moved to South-Asia they mixed a lot with CHG heavy populations.
I guess you are right, after all my father is textbook nord-Indid and looks irano-Afghan instead of yamnaya.
My family shows incredible genetic and phenotypical diversity which is surprising for even guy like me who's studying these stuffs for past 3-5 years.
Imperator Biff
05-09-2019, 04:08 PM
Corded ware was exclusively R1a-M417 unlike yamnaya which was all R1b-Z2103, but there have been R1a samples found in older horizons ancestral to both cultures (sredni stog, khyvalnsk) we also have R1a-Z93 samples from srubnaya, potapovka, poltavka, sintashta and andronovo (last two were the proto-indo-iranians and source of steppe ancestry in South Asia).
The Andronovo that entered India bypassed BMAC and interacted directly with late harappan populations in the swat valley. The ones whom migrated to what is now Iran on the other hand carried a large amount of BMAC ancestry and were a 50/50 mix of both.
There was a migration from Andronovo into India only in the Iron Age. Indo-Iranian is much older than Iron Age (1500 BC). Also during this time Mitanni Aryans and Kassites (and before them Guti) were already present in West Asia! And Andronovo migration was not the only migration into India during the Iron Age. There was another one to from South Central Asia.
https://i.postimg.cc/B6S9L5j6/ace.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8cc2w1Bg/proto-Indo-Europeans.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MHLhFhdM/indo-europeans.jpg
At Iron Age India (Saidu Sharif IA) I don't see EHG at all.
SPGT / Saidu Sharif IA = 55% Neolithic Anatolia & Neolithic Iran + 45% AASI & West Siberian HG
https://i.postimg.cc/DzHWgZK1/acf.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Dzj0zzzt/yamna-migrations-indo-iranian.png
With Mitanni/Kassites (~1700 BC) and GUTI (~2500 BC) in Kurdistan (proto-)Iranian languages already PREDATE Iron Age (~1500 BC) migration from the Mongloid Central Asia Steppes into India.
Imperator Biff
05-10-2019, 08:53 PM
Iron Age swat valley sample possessing Steppe_MLBA related admixture
Udegram_IA (15 samples)
Gonur1_BA 32%
Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3 31.8%
Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 15.4%
Sintashta_MLBA 12.7%
Dali_EBA 5.4%
Naxi 2.7%
Hajji_Firuz_ChL 0%
Tepe_Hissar_ChL 0%
Distance 0.9495%
AIT confirmed, game over.
Imperator Biff
05-10-2019, 08:57 PM
With Mitanni/Kassites (~1700 BC) and GUTI (~2500 BC) in Kurdistan (proto-)Iranian languages already PREDATE Iron Age (~1500 BC) migration from the Mongloid Central Asia Steppes into India.
Neither the Mitanni nor Gutians had anything to do with Iranian.
Mitanni spoke nonIE hurrian and Gutians spoke an unrelated IE language.
Iranian did not truly form until the Iron Age Yaz culture in Turan.
Oghuz
05-10-2019, 09:36 PM
R1a is an Iranian haplogroup. It diversified in Iran as two research papers by Pamjev and Underhill state the same thing. Its presence in south asia may have come in waves starting from Iranian neolithic farmers who formed the Indus valley Civilisation, then Aryans (Steppe+BMAC Iranians) and later Sycthians who were again Iranians.
Z93 subclade probably diversified some 6000 years ago in Northern and central Iranic plateau. It stayed in Iran while the Z282 reached europe either through anatolia or through east side of caspian sea..
the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran Underhill, Peter A. (2014), "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 23 (1): 124–131, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.50, ISSN 1018-4813, PMC 4266736, PMID 24667786
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg
Aryans that entered South Asia were steppe people from Andronovo who got Iranicised by interaction with BMAC. Even today, the Pamiri Tajik or Pashtun Iranics who live in that region have 50 % R1a Z93 haplogroup. Aryans must have looked like how present day Iranid or Irano Nordoid phenotype looks like because that explains the elongated skull of Nord Indid phenotype that is common among upper caste south asians esp Pakis.
Neither the Mitanni nor Gutians had anything to do with Iranian.
Mitanni spoke nonIE hurrian and Gutians spoke an unrelated IE language.
Iranian did not truly form until the Iron Age Yaz culture in Turan.
The 'Aryan' Gods of the Mitanni Treaties
https://www.jstor.org/stable/595878?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Also, names of their leaders were Aryan. From horse trainer Kikkuli we know that they used Aryan words and counted to ten in the Aryan.
http://www.lrgaf.org/Peter_Raulwing_The_Kikkuli_Text_MasterFile_Dec_200 9.pdf
Imperator Biff
05-10-2019, 11:58 PM
The 'Aryan' Gods of the Mitanni Treaties
https://www.jstor.org/stable/595878?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Also, names of their leaders were Aryan. From horse trainer Kikkuli we know that they used Aryan words and counted to ten in the Aryan.
http://www.lrgaf.org/Peter_Raulwing_The_Kikkuli_Text_MasterFile_Dec_200 9.pdf
The names of the gods from cuneiform texts were deemed to be Vedic ergo Old Indic. Not Iranian.
Iranian probably split from Indo-Aryan just before Andronovo mixed with BMAC and even retained a non IE substrate from them.
Imperator Biff
05-11-2019, 12:07 AM
R1a is an Iranian haplogroup. It diversified in Iran as two research papers by Pamjev and Underhill state the same thing. Its presence in south asia may have come in waves starting from Iranian neolithic farmers who formed the Indus valley Civilisation, then Aryans (Steppe+BMAC Iranians) and later Sycthians who were again Iranians.
Z93 subclade probably diversified some 6000 years ago in Northern and central Iranic plateau. It stayed in Iran while the Z282 reached europe either through anatolia or through east side of caspian sea..
the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran Underhill, Peter A. (2014), "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 23 (1): 124–131, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.50, ISSN 1018-4813, PMC 4266736, PMID 24667786
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg
Aryans that entered South Asia were steppe people from Andronovo who got Iranicised by interaction with BMAC. Even today, the Pamiri Tajik or Pashtun Iranics who live in that region have 50 % R1a Z93 haplogroup. Aryans must have looked like how present day Iranid or Irano Nordoid phenotype looks like because that explains the elongated skull of Nord Indid phenotype that is common among upper caste south asians esp Pakis.
Nope, outdated study from a decade ago.
Oldest R1a samples on record are from Mesolithic Eastern Europe. Zagros farmers had none.
And the oldest R1a-Z93 samples have been from steppe horizons like poltavka, sintashta, srubnaya and potapovka and through subsequent founder effects became the dominant lineage of central and South Asia, it isn’t basal to any snps found in Europe. BMAC wasn’t even IE let alone Iranic. It was an urbanised agricultural civilisation much like IVC was and some BMAC samples have turned up with as much as 40% AASI, so it may have even been a harappan outpost at one point.
As for the phenotype of Andronovo, corded nordid seems to be the predominant strain amongst them which makes sense as ultimately their origin is from the CWC.
The names of the gods from cuneiform texts were deemed to be Vedic ergo Old Indic. Not Iranian.
Iranian probably split from Indo-Aryan just before Andronovo mixed with BMAC and even retained a non IE substrate from them.
They were Indo-IRANIAN. Mithra is Vedic, but also an Iranian God.
Indo-Iranians were already in Kurdistan long before 1500 BC invasion from the Mongoloid/Siberian Steppes into India. That's what I'm trying to say. Indo-IRANIANS in Kurdistan predate Indo-Aryan in India. Most likely Indo-Iranian came originally from the Western Iran and settled in Northern India.
Imperator Biff
05-11-2019, 09:13 PM
They were Indo-IRANIAN. Mithra is Vedic, but also an Iranian God.
Indo-Iranians were already in Kurdistan long before 1500 BC invasion from the Mongoloid/Siberian Steppes into India. That's what I'm trying to say. Indo-IRANIANS in Kurdistan predate Indo-Aryan in India. Most likely Indo-Iranian came originally from the Western Iran and settled in Northern India.
But Varuna and Indra were certainly not Iranian deities. They were Vedic. In all likelihood the Mitanni were an Indo-Aryan splinter group from Sintashta/Andronovo that conquered northern Syria and ruled over the local semites, much in the same way as the ones whom rode into India with their chariots after the collapse of IVC.
The oldest text in Iranian is the zend avesta and this is several centuries younger than the rig veda and ntm other inscriptions in Hittite, Greek etc
Fibonacci
05-11-2019, 09:19 PM
Neither the Mitanni nor Gutians had anything to do with Iranian.
Mitanni spoke nonIE hurrian and Gutians spoke an unrelated IE language.
Iranian did not truly form until the Iron Age Yaz culture in Turan.
why do even bother arguing with this guy?
he has no idea what the fuck hes talking about. He has no idea what indo European is, he has no idea what the semitic neolithic farmers spoke
in the middle east at the time. he thinks iranian languages evolved in the deserts of iraq yet somehow they share massive similarities with languages all over Europe.
I honestly think hes a troll and doing it on purpose.
This guy is claiming that Sumerians called themselves Aryans and spoke Iranian languages LMAO.
Viçwamitra
05-13-2019, 06:07 AM
R1a is an Iranian haplogroup. It diversified in Iran as two research papers by Pamjev and Underhill state the same thing. Its presence in south asia may have come in waves starting from Iranian neolithic farmers who formed the Indus valley Civilisation, then Aryans (Steppe+BMAC Iranians) and later Sycthians who were again Iranians.
Z93 subclade probably diversified some 6000 years ago in Northern and central Iranic plateau. It stayed in Iran while the Z282 reached europe either through anatolia or through east side of caspian sea..
the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran Underhill, Peter A. (2014), "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 23 (1): 124–131, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.50, ISSN 1018-4813, PMC 4266736, PMID 24667786
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/R1a_origins_%28Underhill_2010%29_and_R1a1a_oldest_ expansion_and_highest_frequency_%282014%29.jpg
Aryans that entered South Asia were steppe people from Andronovo who got Iranicised by interaction with BMAC. Even today, the Pamiri Tajik or Pashtun Iranics who live in that region have 50 % R1a Z93 haplogroup. Aryans must have looked like how present day Iranid or Irano Nordoid phenotype looks like because that explains the elongated skull of Nord Indid phenotype that is common among upper caste south asians esp Pakis.
1) Oldest Tha z93 sample was found in Middle of Russia, Volga bason with 0% Southern Asian admixture.
3) genetically and phenotypically even Purest Nord Indid and Nord Iranics look different, my family is filled with pure Nord Indids Including my father, he looks nothing like Nord Iranid.
2) I am a brahmin and have studied Rigved, I don't see any Iranization among Vedic Aryans.
Viçwamitra
05-13-2019, 06:12 AM
But Varuna and Indra were certainly not Iranian deities. They were Vedic. In all likelihood the Mitanni were an Indo-Aryan splinter group from Sintashta/Andronovo that conquered northern Syria and ruled over the local semites, much in the same way as the ones whom rode into India with their chariots after the collapse of IVC.
The oldest text in Iranian is the zend avesta and this is several centuries younger than the rig veda and ntm other inscriptions in Hittite, Greek etc
Indeed. My family book is booked in Rig-Veda as it was written by vishwamitra.
Entire book of Vishwamitra clan is dedicated to Indra as he is considered to be our Klan's patron god. Rest are dedicated to Agni and some to all other gods.
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