Albanians + Greeks (MyTrueAncestry Results)

[Epirus DNA]

Albanians + Greeks ONLY

Post your MyTrueAncestry Results

PUT UP OR SHUT UP :bow00001:

https://i.imgur.com/FmOTrQF.jpg

[Bosniensis]

I've never seen anyone scoring Illyrian from Albania, only Spaniards... because they are Celtic admixed just like real Illyrians.

[Epirus DNA]

I've never seen anyone scoring Illyrian from Albania, only Spaniards... because they are Celtic admixed just like real Illyrians.

Ditto. The Question is... what is "real Illyrian"

Several Illyrian Samples are of Hellenic Origin.

For Example GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was most likely Iapygian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians

[Bosniensis]

Ditto. The Question is... what is "real Illyrian"

Several Illyrian Samples are of Hellenic Origin.

For Example GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was most likely Iapygian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians

I have solved that puzzle months ago.

Illyrians are related to Celts so they are not Albanians.

They have been absorbed by Scythians (Slavs) and other people like Ostrogoths etc..

Albanians are Epirote Greeks + Italian mix with a whiff of recent slavic admixture.

[Epirus DNA]

I have solved that puzzle months ago.

Illyrians are related to Celts so they are not Albanians.

They have been absorbed by Scythians (Slavs) and other people like Ostrogoths etc..

Albanians are Epirote Greeks + Italian mix with a whiff of recent slavic admixture.

Agree 110% :grouphug:

[xripkan]

Ditto. The Question is... what is "real Illyrian"

Several Illyrian Samples are of Hellenic Origin.

For Example GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was most likely Iapygian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians

Do you have any common segments with this at gedmatch?

[Hulu]

I've never seen anyone scoring Illyrian from Albania, only Spaniards... because they are Celtic admixed just like real Illyrians.

I do score Illyrian. I don't understand why Spanish are scoring it. Also, they only have an Illyrian sample from Dalmatia. Not any samples from Albania.

http://i68.tinypic.com/11wd2j6.png

[Epirus DNA]

Do you have any common segments with this at gedmatch?

Yes, I do. GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was Female mtDNA: W3a1

Comparing Kit (*EpirusDNA) [Migration - F2 - A] and TX8387837 (I4332 Ancient Dalmatia) [-]

Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 2.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 4.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 48.0 cM (1.340 Pct)
19 shared segments found for this comparison.
223693 SNPs used for this comparison.
52.009 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.191 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.014 cpu seconds.

[Epirus DNA]

I do score Illyrian. I don't understand why Spanish are scoring it. Also, they only have an Illyrian sample from Dalmatia. Not any samples from Albania.


I believe that all of the Ancient DNA Samples that will surface in the future that are South of the Jirecek Line will be of Hellenic Origin, not Illyrian Origin.

I find it interesting that several people consider GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 Female mtDNA: W3a1 to most likely be Iapygian and that she was found in Dalmatia.

[Hulu]

I believe that all of the Ancient DNA Samples that will surface in the future that are South of the Jirecek Line will be of Hellenic Origin.

How do you figure you'll distinguish that from the Albanian origin?

[Epirus DNA]

How do you figure you'll distinguish that from the Albanian origin?

I think that over time, it will become self-evident to us all. We need more samples. I might be wrong :speechless-smiley-0

I think Tirana will be good marker for the Illyrian North and the Hellenic South. The Jirecek Line basically runs right into Tirana.

[Hulu]

I think that over time, it will become self-evident to us all. We need more samples. I might be wrong :speechless-smiley-0

I think Tirana will be good marker for the Illyrian North and the Hellenic South. The Jirecek Line basically runs right into Tirana.

How? Tirana is a mix of people who are tosks from the deep south and ghegs from the most north. How will we make a distinction other than how people themselves identify.

[Rgvgjhvv]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2upfz7s.jpg

Hellenic Roman + Roman (5.586)
Ancient Greek + Hellenic Roman (9.327)
Hellenic Roman (11.69)
Roman (12.37)
Ancient Greek (14.56)

[Epirus DNA]

How? Tirana is a mix of people who are tosks from the deep south and ghegs from the most north. How will we make a distinction other than how people themselves identify.

Exactly. Tirana is a mix of people who are Tosks from the deep South and Ghegs from the most North. In relating the same thought to historical records, I think Tirana was the mixing ground between deep South Hellenic and the most North Illyrian during the Mycenaean Age.

As far as an actual distinction, I am not sure. Y-DNA may tell the tale.

I think what this does confirm is the actual relation between Albanians, Greeks, and Armenians. A shared lineage or culture from Anatolia to the Mainland.

[Hulu]

Exactly. Tirana is a mix of people who are Tosks from the deep South and Ghegs from the most North. In relating the same thought to historical records, I think Tirana was the mixing ground between deep South Hellenic and the most North Illyrian during the Mycenaean Age.

As far as an actual distinction, I am not sure. Y-DNA may tell the tale.

I think what this does confirm is the actual relation between Albanians, Greeks, and Armenians. A shared lineage or culture from Anatolia to the Mainland.

Armenia? Maybe with Greeks they share some ancestry (Anatolia etc). Not Albanians.

[Hulu]

http://i63.tinypic.comupfz7s.jpg

Hellenic Roman + Roman (5.586)
Ancient Greek + Hellenic Roman (9.327)
Hellenic Roman (11.69)
Roman (12.37)
Ancient Greek (14.56)

Did you check again, they updated my results this week.

[TheMaestro]

But I'm a mutt

https://i.imgur.com/E7CywKo.jpg

[Epirus DNA]

Armenia? Maybe with Greeks they share some ancestry (Anatolia etc). Not Albanians.

There is a difference, but the J2 Haplogroup is strong in Albania, Armenia, and Greece.

The Minoan and Mycenaean samples found were J2a

I think the Albanians are a mix of Celts and J2a Minoan/Mycenaen creating the J2b Lineage that is more Tosk. I believe the Ghegs are more E-V13

[Epirus DNA]

ME :ftomato: waiting for Albanians and Greeks to post their MyTrueAncestry DNA Results

[MagnusDark]

I've never seen anyone scoring Illyrian from Albania, only Spaniards... because they are Celtic admixed just like real Illyrians.

You're not looking hard enough and obviously wrong. I am not even a prime example but I still get them in my closest. Also share cm with them and Thracians. Most Albanians from Kosova and the North actually get Roman/Illyrian/Thracian, or Roman/Ancient Greeks/Illyrian.

The reason Spaniards and North italians get it is only because of similar admixture levels when Slavic migrations pulled Greeks and Albanians further East. The fact Myceneans are closer to Southern Italians doesn't make it true. Greeks are actually closer, the South Italians just have similar admixture. Apply same reasoning. YDNA of Illyrians are dominant in Albanians, not italians or even Iberians and certainly not Slavs. You like to ignore real science to craft your outlandish theories. Some healthy skepticism is good. Being a complete retard, is not.

https://i.postimg.cc/zBj3PPVS/hk1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8P3c3vP3/hk2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SKbsQp9f/hk3.jpg

[MagnusDark]

Ditto. The Question is... what is "real Illyrian"

Several Illyrian Samples are of Hellenic Origin.

For Example GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was most likely Iapygian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians

Not true. Bosniensis is a troll who believes Illyrians and Thracians were all Slavs. He doesn't even want to accept the YDNA of Illyrians we discovered is ALbanian, even though it actually is.. Its quite obvious. Not all Illyrians were homogeneous autosomally. We also have no Southern Illyrian samples yet. We do have Illyrian YDNA though. Its dominant in Albanians. In Italians is mostly from Arbereshe, and Iberians don't have it. It is merely the algorithm finding similar admixture levels. Which only means they were North Italian/Iberian like.

If you use Bosniensis reasoning, you have to accept Ancient Greeks are closer to Italians and therefore not Greek. We know thats not true, considering Greeks have dominant J2a found in Mycenaeans and any Italians have is from Greek settlement. YDNA is the best indicator of actual patrilineal descent. Autosomes evolve and change over time.

[MagnusDark]

There is a difference, but the J2 Haplogroup is strong in Albania, Armenia, and Greece.

The Minoan and Mycenaean samples found were J2a

I think the Albanians are a mix of Celts and J2a Minoan/Mycenaen creating the J2b Lineage that is more Tosk. I believe the Ghegs are more E-V13

You have no idea how YDNA works. J2b split from J2(the parent of J2a-Proto Greek), NOT FROM J2a. It only means Proto-Illyrian J2b(found in Albanians) and Proto-Greek J2a, share a Proto forefather. Mind you, the split from J2 for J2a and J2b was MORE than 20 thousand years ago. Before there was even an indo european language. When they split was long before the respective branches in their languages or even peoples formed or even migrated. Context is everything.

It is unbelievable how delusional people can be. You also said Albanians can't be Illyrian, yet the YDNA of the same Illyrian samples in this site are paternal ANCESTORS of Albanians by the YDNA. J2b dominates Albanians, R1b dominates in Albanians, E-V13 dominates in Albanians. The parent of E-V13 found in West Balkans, Balkan R1b, found in Bronze Age West Balkans, J2b-L283, found in Proto-Illyrians in the West Balkans. All 3 make up 70-95 percent of paternal descent in ALL Albanians(depending on region).

Albanians are mostly direct descendants of Illyrians. South-Slavs only share this via proxy(marriage with illyrian women).

There is a difference. Science is already confirming this but everyone likes to zone it out. Bosniensis will still tell you I2-Din Slavic is Illyrian and Thracian despite no ancient remains. Yet he likes to believe the ancient Proto-Illyrian remains connecting Albanians, do not exist. He has an extra chromosome.

Learn a little more

[Rgvgjhvv]

Did you check again, they updated my results this week.

Yeah nothing changed.

[Epirus DNA]

J2b split from J2(the parent of J2a-Proto Greek), NOT FROM J2a. It only means Proto-Illyrian J2b(found in Albanians) and Proto-Greek J2a, share a Proto forefather.

Duh, Malaka.


It is unbelievable how delusional people can be. You also said Albanians can't be Illyrian, yet the YDNA of the same Illyrian samples in this site are paternal ANCESTORS of Albanians by the YDNA. J2b dominates Albanians, R1b dominates in Albanians, E-V13 dominates in Albanians. The parent of E-V13 found in West Balkans, Balkan R1b, found in Bronze Age West Balkans, J2b-L283, found in Proto-Illyrians in the West Balkans. All 3 make up 70-95 percent of paternal descent in ALL Albanians(depending on region).


Nobody said Albanians can't be Illyrian.

Patiently waiting for Albanians & Greeks to post their MyTrueAncestry Results.

[Epirus DNA]

He doesn't even want to accept the YDNA of Illyrians we discovered is ALbanian, even though it actually is.. Its quite obvious. Not all Illyrians were homogeneous autosomally. We also have no Southern Illyrian samples yet. We do have Illyrian YDNA though. Its dominant in Albanians.


Yes, I4331 + I4332 split from J2 but they were probably Iapygian... a Hellenic and Proto-Illyrian people.

Am I missing any Illyrian Samples here??

Early/Middle Bronze Age, 1700-1500 BCE

I4331
mtDNA: I1a1
Y-DNA: J2b2a

I4332
mtDNA: W3a1


Mesolithic, 7308-7027 calBCE

I1875
mtDNA: U5b2b


Impresso, 6400-5500 BCE

I3433
mtDNA: H1

I3947
mtDNA: K1b1a
Y-DNA: C1a2

I3948
mtDNA: N1a1
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1


Bronze Age, 1500-900 BCE

I3313
mtDNA: HV0e

[xripkan]

Yes, I do. GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was Female mtDNA: W3a1

Comparing Kit (*EpirusDNA) [Migration - F2 - A] and TX8387837 (I4332 Ancient Dalmatia) [-]

Minimum segment threshold size to be included in total = 50 SNPs
Minimum segment cM to be included in total = 2.0 cM
Mismatch-bunching Limit will be adjusted dynamically to 60 percent of the segment threshold size for any given segment.
Largest segment = 4.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 48.0 cM (1.340 Pct)
19 shared segments found for this comparison.
223693 SNPs used for this comparison.
52.009 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.191 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.014 cpu seconds.

For 50 SNPs thresold size these are my results

Largest segment = 4.7 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 31.6 cM (0.881 Pct)

12 shared segments found for this comparison.

371060 SNPs used for this comparison.

54.408 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.336 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.044 cpu seconds.

Ver: May 19 2019 00:02:33

On 200-400 SNPs I have one common segment 4cM. Do you have any common segments on 200-400 SNPs threshold size?

[MagnusDark]

Duh, Malaka.



Nobody said Albanians can't be Illyrian.

Patiently waiting for Albanians & Greeks to post their MyTrueAncestry Results.

No duh, Malaka.

You said "I think the Albanians are a mix of Celts and J2a Minoan/Mycenaen creating the J2b Lineage that is more Tosk. I believe the Ghegs are more E-V13"

Let me put this into perspective again. There were no Celts or Greeks over 20000 years ago. Not even Indo-Europeans or even Proto-Indo-Europeans. You cannot get J2b from J2a. J2b split from J2 the same as J2a split from J2(separately) well over 20,000 years ago.....

J2b-L283 was FOUND in a PROTO-ILLYRIAN. No, J2b is more common in the North-Albanians. Nice try though. E-V13 has roughly a similar distribution to J2b with all Albanians. J2b-L283 peaks in Northern Albanians.


You said: "Nobody said Albanians can't be Illyrian."

You sure? On page on you agreed with Bosniensis and his extra chromosome comment where he said Albanians are not Illyrians, you agreed "100%".

Albanians largely by direct paternal descent ARE Illyrians, not "can be". J2b-L283 was FOUND in Proto-Illyrians. R1b-L23 was FOUND in bronze age Balkan. The parent of E-V13 was FOUND in West Balkans Neolithic. Majority of Albanians are V13/J2b-L283/R1b. All 3(especially J2b-L283) were among Illyrians. Most J2b-L283, and R1b-BY611 in Greeks are from Albanian migrations. Not the other way around. E-V13 is more widespread with different clades region to region.

[Epirus DNA]

On 200-400 SNPs I have one common segment 4cM. Do you have any common segments on 200-400 SNPs threshold size?

On 200-400 SNPs, I do not share a common segment with GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 was Female mtDNA: W3a1

[MagnusDark]

Yes, I4331 + I4332 split from J2 but they were probably Iapygian... a Hellenic and Proto-Illyrian people.

Am I missing any Illyrian Samples here??

Early/Middle Bronze Age, 1700-1500 BCE

I4331
mtDNA: I1a1
Y-DNA: J2b2a

I4332
mtDNA: W3a1


Mesolithic, 7308-7027 calBCE

I1875
mtDNA: U5b2b


Impresso, 6400-5500 BCE

I3433
mtDNA: H1

I3947
mtDNA: K1b1a
Y-DNA: C1a2

I3948
mtDNA: N1a1
Y-DNA: E1b1b1a1b1


Bronze Age, 1500-900 BCE

I3313
mtDNA: HV0e

Greeks did not have that much influence that far north as you would like to think. Additionally, there are still no Greek specific J2b-L283 clades. Its almost entirely from Albanian migrations in the middle ages. Greeks are largely J2a, which is Proto-Greek. I don't recall E-V13 being uncovered in a Illyrian yet. It was found in Thracians though, and given the spread is likely Thraco-Illyrian. J2b-L283 has a stronger pull in the west Balkans among Albanians.

For instance if theres J2a in Albanians, most cases it will be of Greek descent. All Greek J2b-L283 falls in Albanian branches. There may be older clusters that split from Illyrians much earlier, rather than Albanians in recent history. Don't know of any specifically though. Just to illustrate the most updated spread of J2b-L283. It's obvious.

https://i.postimg.cc/BbS1CPB6/4fv0ar.png

[Epirus DNA]

Greeks did not have that much influence that far north as you would like to think. Additionally, there are still no Greek specific J2b-L283 clades. Its almost entirely from Albanian migrations in the middle ages. Greeks are largely J2a, which is Proto-Greek. I don't recall E-V13 being uncovered in a Illyrian yet. It was found in Thracians though, and given the spread is likely Thraco-Illyrian. J2b-L283 has a stronger pull in the west Balkans among Albanians.

For instance if theres J2a in Albanians, most cases it will be of Greek descent. All Greek J2b-L283 falls in Albanian branches. Just to illustrate the most updated spread of J2b-L283. It's obvious.

https://i.postimg.cc/BbS1CPB6/4fv0ar.png

I really appreciate this post and I agree with you on several points.
I think this coincides with what I posted earlier in this thread.
I believe that all of the Ancient DNA Samples that will surface in the future that are South of the Jirecek Line will be of Hellenic Origin, not Illyrian Origin.
I find it interesting that several people consider GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 Female mtDNA: W3a1 to most likely be Iapygian and that she was found in Dalmatia.
I think that over time, it will become self-evident to us all. We need more samples. I might be wrong
I think Tirana will be good marker for the Illyrian North and the Hellenic South. The Jirecek Line basically runs right into Tirana.
Tirana is a mix of people who are Tosks from the deep South and Ghegs from the most North. In relating the same thought to historical records, I think Tirana was the mixing ground between deep South Hellenic and the most North Illyrian during the Mycenaean Age.
As far as an actual distinction, I am not sure. Y-DNA may tell the tale.

[Epirus DNA]

No duh, Malaka.

You said "I think the Albanians are a mix of Celts and J2a Minoan/Mycenaen creating the J2b Lineage that is more Tosk. I believe the Ghegs are more E-V13"

Let me put this into perspective again. There were no Celts or Greeks over 20000 years ago. Not even Indo-Europeans or even Proto-Indo-Europeans. You cannot get J2b from J2a. J2b split from J2 the same as J2a split from J2(separately) well over 20,000 years ago.....

J2b-L283 was FOUND in a PROTO-ILLYRIAN. No, J2b is more common in the North-Albanians. Nice try though. E-V13 has roughly a similar distribution to J2b with all Albanians. J2b-L283 peaks in Northern Albanians.


You said: "Nobody said Albanians can't be Illyrian."

You sure? On page on you agreed with Bosniensis and his extra chromosome comment where he said Albanians are not Illyrians, you agreed "100%".

Albanians largely by direct paternal descent ARE Illyrians, not "can be". J2b-L283 was FOUND in Proto-Illyrians. R1b-L23 was FOUND in bronze age Balkan. The parent of E-V13 was FOUND in West Balkans Neolithic. Majority of Albanians are V13/J2b-L283/R1b. All 3(especially J2b-L283) were among Illyrians. Most J2b-L283, and R1b-BY611 in Greeks are from Albanian migrations. Not the other way around. E-V13 is more widespread with different clades region to region.

What do you think about Proto-Illyrian and Proto-Greek?

The obviously come from the same stock out of Yamnaya but do you think they split in the Danube Valley or did they go to Anatolia first? Maybe a little bit of both?

They say that Haplogroup J started in the Fertile Cresent not Yamnaya.

[Epirus DNA]

Let me put this into perspective again. There were no Celts or Greeks over 20000 years ago. Not even Indo-Europeans or even Proto-Indo-Europeans. You cannot get J2b from J2a. J2b split from J2 the same as J2a split from J2(separately) well over 20,000 years ago.....


Three questions for you:

Where do you think Haplogroup J started?

Where do you think Haplogroup J split to J1 and J2?

Where do you think Haplogroup J2 split to J2a + J2b?

[MagnusDark]

I really appreciate this post and I agree with you on several points.
I think this coincides with what I posted earlier in this thread.
I believe that all of the Ancient DNA Samples that will surface in the future that are South of the Jirecek Line will be of Hellenic Origin, not Illyrian Origin.
I find it interesting that several people consider GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 Female mtDNA: W3a1 to most likely be Iapygian and that she was found in Dalmatia.
I think that over time, it will become self-evident to us all. We need more samples. I might be wrong
I think Tirana will be good marker for the Illyrian North and the Hellenic South. The Jirecek Line basically runs right into Tirana.
Tirana is a mix of people who are Tosks from the deep South and Ghegs from the most North. In relating the same thought to historical records, I think Tirana was the mixing ground between deep South Hellenic and the most North Illyrian during the Mycenaean Age.
As far as an actual distinction, I am not sure. Y-DNA may tell the tale.

Well, the Jirecek line was further north of Tirana. Also, I wouldn't take a southern pull too seriously. My family on both sides are pasty white northerners for the most part. Yet, me and my father have a southern shift. All this means is higher neolithic type admixture. Even Thracians were further south than Albanians or Greeks, but they are not actually from the south.

The best indicator is IBD sharing(Identity by descent). Albanians are very homogeneous both ways. Sure, certain border regions are more mixed, but we are very tightly knit. A study found from high IBD sharing in Albanians that they trace alot of their ancestry to a small proto-population 1500 plus years ago in the early middle ages. Most YDNA splits are also between 2100-1500 years ago in Albanians as well.

If any region of Albania has Greek input its the far south. Yet, its not much different than Vlach or Slavic input. By YDNA, R1a/I2a/J2a or other non-common clades are more common in the South, yet even then not astronomically.

For example I am R1a-L1029. This line most probably came with Proto-Slavic tribes, maybe even Goths carried some. However, my clade is a founder effect, all my matches in paternal line are Albanian, with the Albanian forefather living about 1200-1300 years ago. So in all likelihood a Avaro-Slav was assimilated earlier before spreading with Albanians. Of course to confirm this we need Slavs matching some of my unique clades while being negative for the cluster itself. Currently all Slavs/Scandos/Germans that I match are 2100ypb. Around 100BC. So, it could have broke off earlier.

It is important to look at the clade we belong cause this is usually our own most recent common ancestor. Technically if you keep going back it dates prior to the formation of these peoples and cultures. So we should only look at one snippet in time for recent ancestry. It gets confusing without ancient samples when we guess further back.

[xripkan]

I really appreciate this post and I agree with you on several points.
I think this coincides with what I posted earlier in this thread.
I believe that all of the Ancient DNA Samples that will surface in the future that are South of the Jirecek Line will be of Hellenic Origin, not Illyrian Origin.
I find it interesting that several people consider GedMatch Kit: TX8387837 -- Illyrian / Dalmatia (1600 BC) - I4332 Female mtDNA: W3a1 to most likely be Iapygian and that she was found in Dalmatia.
I think that over time, it will become self-evident to us all. We need more samples. I might be wrong
I think Tirana will be good marker for the Illyrian North and the Hellenic South. The Jirecek Line basically runs right into Tirana.
Tirana is a mix of people who are Tosks from the deep South and Ghegs from the most North. In relating the same thought to historical records, I think Tirana was the mixing ground between deep South Hellenic and the most North Illyrian during the Mycenaean Age.
As far as an actual distinction, I am not sure. Y-DNA may tell the tale.

What makes you believe that this sample is Iapygian?

[MagnusDark]

What do you think about Proto-Illyrian and Proto-Greek?

The obviously come from the same stock out of Yamnaya but do you think they split in the Danube Valley or did they go to Anatolia first? Maybe a little bit of both?

They say that Haplogroup J started in the Fertile Cresent, which goes against this sceince of Greeks being J2a and Albanians being J2b before Yamnaya ??

J2b-L283, and the clades of J2a in Greeks/Mycenaeans split way too long ago from J2 that by the time the cultures formed they were vastly different from those in the fertile crescent. If I am not mistaken the oldest J2 was found around Zagros Mountains. I could be wrong about that one though.

Proto-Illyrians(Albanians) and Proto-Greeks do share Yamnaya ancestry. I guess mostly by proxy. However maybe R1b-L23 could also link the two. The Albanian and Greek R1b are closer in a paternal sense than the other haplogroups(which still participated in the migrations). However R1b-L23 is probably the original speaker that Proto-Albanian/Proto-Greek language is derived with Proto-Armenian. J2b/J2a were a big part of the migrations of these people of course, goes without says.

[Epirus DNA]

Well, the Jirecek line was further north of Tirana. Also, I wouldn't take a southern pull too seriously. My family on both sides are pasty white northerners for the most part. Yet, me and my father have a southern shift. All this means is higher neolithic type admixture. Even Thracians were further south than Albanians or Greeks, but they are not actually from the south.

The best indicator is IBD sharing(Identity by descent). Albanians are very homogeneous both ways. Sure, certain border regions are more mixed, but we are very tightly knit. A study found from high IBD sharing in Albanians that they trace alot of their ancestry to a small proto-population 1500 plus years ago in the early middle ages. Most YDNA splits are also between 2100-1500 years ago in Albanians as well.

If any region of Albania has Greek input its the far south. Yet, its not much different than Vlach or Slavic input. By YDNA, R1a/I2a/J2a or other non-common clades are more common in the South, yet even then not astronomically.

For example I am R1a-L1029. This line most probably came with Proto-Slavic tribes, maybe even Goths carried some. However, my clade is a founder effect, all my matches in paternal line are Albanian, with the Albanian forefather living about 1200-1300 years ago. So in all likelihood a Avaro-Slav was assimilated earlier before spreading with Albanians. Of course to confirm this we need Slavs matching some of my unique clades while being negative for the cluster itself. Currently all Slavs/Scandos/Germans that I match are 2100ypb. Around 100BC. So, it could have broke off earlier.

It is important to look at the clade we belong cause this is usually our own most recent common ancestor. Technically if you keep going back it dates prior to the formation of these peoples and cultures. So we should only look at one snippet in time for recent ancestry. It gets confusing without ancient samples when we guess further back.

:gpost:

Check Out this Thread:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?290078-MyTrueAncestry-vs-GedMatch-Kit-Cross-Check

[MagnusDark]

Three questions for you:

Where do you think Haplogroup J started?

Where do you think Haplogroup J split to J1 and J2?

Where do you think Haplogroup J2 split to J2a + J2b?

This is kind of an intro on everything about J2, including its descending clades. It could change the more that we uncovered, but reading this will probably be better than me trying to remember lol.

About fertile crescent origin.

"Notwithstanding its strong presence in West Asia today, haplogroup J2 does not seem to have been one of the principal lineages associated with the rise and diffusion of cereal farming from the Fertile Crescent and Anatolia to Europe. It is likely that J2 men had settled over most of Anatolia, the South Caucasus and Iran by the end of the Last Glaciation 12,000 years ago."

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

[Epirus DNA]

What makes you believe that this sample is Iapygian?

The DNA Admixture from this study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135616v1.full

https://i.imgur.com/P9LnAbe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4NnQAOK.jpg

[Epirus DNA]

This is kind of an intro on everything about J2, including its descending clades. It could change the more that we uncovered, but reading this will probably be better than me trying to remember lol.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

I have read this a thousand times... I still like going down the Rabbit Hole :shrug:

[Epirus DNA]

J2b-L283, and the clades of J2a in Greeks/Mycenaeans split way too long ago from J2 that by the time the cultures formed they were vastly different from those in the fertile crescent. If I am not mistaken the oldest J2 was found around Zagros Mountains. I could be wrong about that one though.

Proto-Illyrians(Albanians) and Proto-Greeks do share Yamnaya ancestry. I guess mostly by proxy. However maybe R1b-L23 could also link the two. The Albanian and Greek R1b are closer in a paternal sense than the other haplogroups(which still participated in the migrations). However R1b-L23 is probably the original speaker that Proto-Albanian/Proto-Greek language is derived with Proto-Armenian. J2b/J2a were a big part of the migrations of these people of course, goes without says.

The map below from Eupedia shows J2a coming from the Kura Araxes... but Proto-Greek is coming from Yamnaya culture during the Bronze Age.

Maybe the Language difference between Linear A and Linear B is J2a Minoans clash with Proto-Greek speakers and this created the Mycenaean's and Homeric Greek?

It's a stretch... I'm researching and learning. I am an amateur and enthusiast.

https://i.imgur.com/4NnQAOK.jpg

[MagnusDark]

The map below from Eupedia shows J2a coming from the Kura Araxes... but Proto-Greek is coming from Yamnaya culture during the Bronze Age.

Maybe the Language difference between Linear A and Linear B is J2a Minoans clash with Proto-Greek speakers and this created the Mycenaean's and Homeric Greek?

It's a stretch... I'm researching and learning. I am an amateur and enthusiast.

https://i.imgur.com/4NnQAOK.jpg

I think the maps are dated. They are great for theoretical observation though.

[Epirus DNA]

I think the maps are dated. They are great for theoretical observation though.

From looking at this Map and trying to figure out where the Illryians came from, it's complicated when J2b is such a dominant Y-DNA in Albania.

I would assume J2 did not go up through the Yamnaya into the Proto Greek Speakers... and the J2 people learned Greek in the Mainland during the Mycenaean Age. This makes me think of the Albanains. Were they a mix of Proto-Greek from Yamnaya and the Proto-Italo-Celtic Tribes. The Iapygians may be the key. An Italic Tribe with Hellenic Influence. Could this be the root of Illyrian? What do you think?

[Epirus DNA]

Armenia? Maybe with Greeks they share some ancestry (Anatolia etc). Not Albanians.

Not recent DNA but Ancient DNA. I'm thinking BC Samples?
Does Illyrian DNA score with Kalehoyuk and Overrun OR does it score with Corderd Ware / Bell Beaker?
It's probably a combination / mix between the Yamnaya and Proto-Italio-Celtic Balkan people with the Anatolians?

[paradox]

Mine and my father's (Vlach origins)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/6f2f36049f414877bfa10486d5e626dd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/96d0980dcdd12aa795e4d7e231b0db29.jpg

[Epirus DNA]

https://i.postimg.cc/8P3c3vP3/hk2.jpg


Hey Magnus! I was just looking throught this thread--
So what is your opinion?
Are the Greek and Albanian genetic affinities from Ancient Times or from the more recent Ottoman Empire migrations?

[cryptonite]

Here’s mine. I’m Albanian from Albania.

117524

[ydatoporin]

118046118047

[Mixalis86]

Here are my results, Greek guy 1/2 Hellenic + 1/2 Arvanite118422IG]118423[/ATTACH]