Haplogroups of Balkan Turks

[Kaspias]

E-V13

1. E-V13
2. E-PF6748
3. E-M35
4. E-Z38456
5. E-V13
6. E-BY6350
7. E-BY6100
8. E-V13
9. E-V13
10. E-M35

G

11. G-P15


H

12. H-L901


I1

13. I-M253
14. I-Y86150
15. I-Y7666


I2

16. I-M423
17. I-M170
18. I-M170
19. I-M170
20. I-M170
21. I-Y37834
22. I-A1221
23. I-P37
24. I-M423



J1

25. J-P58
26. J-M267
27. J-M267


J2

28. J-M172
29. J-M172


R1a

30. R-M512
31. R-YP1013
32. R-M512
33. R-M198
34. R-M512
35. R-FGC30901
36. R-Y1392
37. R-M198
38. R-M198
39. R-M17
40. R-M198
41. R-M198
42. R-M198


R1b

43. R-L23
44. R-M269
45. R-M269
46. R-CTS7763
47. R-M269
48. R-L23
49. R-PH4902
50. R-DF27
51. R-U152

R2

52. R-M479


Q

53. Q-L54
54. Q-S19575

N

55. N-Y136502
56. N-M232
57. N-P189

O

58. O-F18

T

59. T-M70

C

60. C-P53-3



https://i.ibb.co/3Csjf2j/Ads-z.png

[Bosniensis]

I've heard about Ev13 being dominant in some central and eastern asian regions, I2 as well.

[Ayetooey]

I've heard about Ev13 being dominant in some central and eastern asian regions, I2 as well.

I2 is around 20% in Kurds; it doesn't exist anywhere else outside of Europe in a significant sense.

[PaleoEuropean]

I2 is around 20% in Kurds; it doesn't exist anywhere else outside of Europe in a significant sense.

Probably non-Iranian Kurds. Kurds aren't truly one people like the Turks, more of an amalgamation of peoples from different places. I imagine they are native Anatolian's.

[Thracian]

I also know a few person who share same haplogroup with me. I know that you have limited samples but Balkan Turks more R1a than Pomaks, right?

[Kaspias]

I also know a few person who share same haplogroup with me. I know that you have limited samples but Balkan Turks more R1a than Pomaks, right?

Yes. Here;

https://i.ibb.co/9Wv8G02/Ads-z.png

Huge difference.

Also Bulgarians:

https://i.ibb.co/hZwJBLF/Ads-z2.png

[Bosniensis]

I2 is around 20% in Kurds; it doesn't exist anywhere else outside of Europe in a significant sense.

It must exist, Balkan Turks came from Siberian plain.

[Thracian]

Yes. Here;

https://i.ibb.co/9Wv8G02/Ads-z.png

Huge difference.

Also Bulgarians:

https://i.ibb.co/hZwJBLF/Ads-z2.png

Yeah. It is really huge. The other interesting part is R1b. Pomaks and Balkan Turks somehow have more (percentage I mean) than Bulgarians. You did good job bro, btw.

[Kaspias]

Yeah. It is really huge. The other interesting part is R1b. Pomaks and Balkan Turks somehow have more (percentage I mean) than Bulgarians. You did good job bro, btw.

There are clear differences between these 3 ethnic group although we expect them be similar. High amount of R(both b and a) actually might show two different fact. One, their Turkic ancestors might be carrying R - and this one is more reasonable - and the other is the people that Turks mixed were carrying high R. This is not much likely because Bulgarian and Thrace Turks usually mixed with Pomaks who already became Muslim. Only early settlers mixed with Orthodox's. So they should get similar haplogroups with the Pomaks but they don't. The first theory seems accurate in this sense.

Pomaks known with being isolated, this reflects their Y-DNA too. They usually have the same clades and only 8 different haplogroup variation. I also hadn't expected high I but i expected high E, G, J, R1a. This was totally surprising for me.

I know 25 sample is not enough but still gives noteworthy clues. After checking these results, i think with at least 100 samples, one could write an article about their origin since it is still unlighted and these results offer us more than we think. So need more Pomak to be tested. I made a deep search on Pomaks but these are what i could find in two years.


I'm going to make another chart for Greeks, especially for Northern Greeks if i can find enough data to be able to differ Northern ones from Southern ones. Comparing 4 of them also referencing ancient haplogroup findings will give inevitable facts.

[Thracian]

There are clear differences between these 3 ethnic group although we expect them be similar. High amount of R(both b and a) actually might show two different fact. One, their Turkic ancestors might be carrying R - and this one is more reasonable - and the other is the people that Turks mixed were carrying high R. This is not much likely because Bulgarian and Thrace Turks usually mixed with Pomaks who already became Muslim. Only early settlers mixed with Orthodox's. So they should get similar haplogroups with the Pomaks but they don't. The first theory seems accurate in this sense.

Pomaks known with being isolated, this reflects their Y-DNA too. They usually have the same clades and only 8 different haplogroup variation. I also hadn't expected high I but i expected high E, G, J, R1a. This was totally surprising for me.

I know 25 sample is not enough but still gives noteworthy clues. After checking these results, i think with at least 100 samples, one could write an article about their origin since it is still unlighted and these results offer us more than we think. So need more Pomak to be tested. I made a deep search on Pomaks but these are what i could find in two years.


I'm going to make another chart for Greeks, especially for Northern Greeks if i can find enough data to be able to differ Northern ones from Southern ones. Comparing 4 of them also referencing ancient haplogroup findings will give inevitable facts.

I am aware of there are some difficulties to get Pomak samples. They are few in number and also many of them became Balkan Turks after migrated to Turkey. I know a few people like that. Young generations only know where they come from.

Good idea. I haven't seen many Greek Y-DNA but I have many Greeks in my relatives on 23andMe. I can contribute (of course I need their permission for that) if you can not find enough samples.

[Kaspias]

I am aware of there are some difficulties to get Pomak samples. They are few in number and also many of them became Balkan Turks after migrated to Turkey. I know a few people like that. Young generations only know where they come from.

Good idea. I haven't seen many Greek Y-DNA but I have many Greeks in my relatives on 23andMe. I can contribute (of course I need their permission for that) if you can not find enough samples.

Not only in Turkey, almost whole Pomak population in Western Thrace and Kardzhali identifying as Turk. Only Smolyan(Western Rhodopes) Pomaks know they're Pomaks. This is the reason why most of Pomak samples from there. I'm only person in my family identifying myself as Pomak. My cousines can't speak Pomak and thinks they're Turkish.

Whatever, i would appreciate if you contribute. I'm going to begin to collect Greek samples in Monday since i have final exams in this weekend. You can send me the samples whenever you want. Thank you btw.

[altaic]

E-V13

1. E-V13
2. E-PF6748
3. E-M35
4. E-Z38456
5. E-V13
6. E-BY6350
7. E-BY6100
8. E-V13
9. E-V13
10. E-M35

G

11. G-P15


H

12. H-L901


I1

13. I-M253
14. I-Y86150
15. I-Y7666


I2

16. I-M423
17. I-M170
18. I-M170
19. I-M170
20. I-M170
21. I-Y37834
22. I-A1221
23. I-P37
24. I-M423



J1

25. J-P58
26. J-M267
27. J-M267


J2

28. J-M172
29. J-M172


R1a

30. R-M512
31. R-YP1013
32. R-M512
33. R-M198
34. R-M512
35. R-FGC30901
36. R-Y1392
37. R-M198
38. R-M198
39. R-M17
40. R-M198
41. R-M198
42. R-M198


R1b

43. R-L23
44. R-M269
45. R-M269
46. R-CTS7763
47. R-M269
48. R-L23
49. R-PH4902
50. R-DF27
51. R-U152

R2

52. R-M479


Q

53. Q-L54
54. Q-S19575

N

55. N-Y136502
56. N-M232
57. N-P189

O

58. O-F18

T

59. T-M70

C

60. C-P53-3



https://i.ibb.co/3Csjf2j/Ads-z.png


My Haplogroup mtDNA is R2, or R-M479 Can you tell me more about this hablogroup if possible? I read that it is common in India and Pakistan but can not get any connection with me ;) I also read that it is common for Bashkirs.

Below is the explanation according to the 23andme.

Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup R2

Haplogroup R originated in southwestern Asia about 60,000 years ago, not long after humans first migrated out of Africa. People bearing the haplogroup and its offshoots have gone on to populate much of Eurasia and even Australia.

R2 split off from the main R haplogroup about 40,000 years ago in southwest Asia. R2 then spread into central and southern Asia, where it is concentrated in Pakistan and northwest India. The haplogroup has also spread north; it now appears at low levels in Russia's Volga River basin, on Europe's eastern fringes.

R2 Today
R2 is relatively uncommon among 23andMe customers.
1 in 4,200 23andMe customers share your haplogroup assignment.

[Vožd]

Islamized Slavs.

[karakartal]

My y-dna haplogroup is J2a2.

[PAGANE]

The so-called Pomaks are extremely Islamized Slavs an integral part of the Bulgarian nationality. This is a Slav-speaking population in present-day southern Bulgaria / the Rhodopi Mountains / and northern Greece. are mainly the Western Balkans and the lands of present-day Republic of Northern Macedonia and Aegean Macedonia. In 584, the Slavs besieged Thessaloniki for the first time. Four more unsuccessful sieges ensued, which almost led to the conquest of Byzantium's second largest city. However, the lands around the fortress are inhabited by a large Slav population, which is gradually moving towards a more peaceful way of life. Slavic colonization extends to the theme of Hellas, the theme of Thrace and the already mentioned Thessaloniki region. Taking advantage of the struggles between the Avars and Byzantium, the Slavs take over Singidium (Belgrade), Viminacium (Costalac), Augusta (Oryahovo), Anhialo (Pomorie). According to the Monevmazian Chronicle, the Slavs conquered Thessaly, Hellas, and the Peloponnese and set out for Mount Taiget, known in ancient times for its innumerable treasures. The Berziti Bursites (also known as bursites or brassicas), together with the Dragsites, are one of the two tribes that settled in the northern part of the geographical area of ​​Macedonia in the 6th century. The Baiounitai are a Slavic tribe from the 7th - 8th centuries, inhabiting the lands of present-day southern Albania and Epirus. They participate in the siege of Thessaloniki (described in detail in the great siege of 616 AD), repeatedly devastating Thessaly and the Aegean. According to the Czech historian Lubor Niederle, the Voyunites, together with their related velegésites, ponds and mills, are linguistically connected with the Slavs who settled in Macedonia and the other Slavic tribes of the Balkan Peninsula. The Drahovites (secondhand, Drahovichs) are a Slavic tribe. They settled on the Balkan Peninsula in the early seventh century. They inhabit the lands west of Thessaloniki. They formed a military-tribal alliance with other Slavic tribes, headed by Hatzon. They are included in the borders of Bulgaria in the IX century. The Sogudates are a South Slavic tribe of the Bulgarian group that inhabits the lands around Thessaloniki, mainly to the west and southwest of it. The Sogudates participate in the sieges of Thessaloniki. They were later Christianized. Their last communication in the sources is from the beginning of the IX century. The Smolyan is a Slavic tribe inhabiting the Middle and Western Rhodopes. In the 9th century, resins finally became part of the Bulgarian nationality. Strymonites or Strymonian Slavs (Greek: /τρυμονῖται / Strymonitai) were a tribe of Sclaveni (Early Slavs) who settled in the region of the Strymon River (Struma) in the eastern parts of the historical region of Macedonia. They took part in the Slavic siege of the Byzantine city of Thessalonica c. 677.

[PAGANE]

The Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire, Midhat Pasha, in his article "Turkey: Past, Present, Future", published in the French journal "Scientific Review for France and Abroad", No 49, 1878, p. 1152, wrote: "... There are more than one million Mohammedans among Bulgarians. This includes neither Tatars nor Circassians. These Mohammedans did not come from Asia to settle in Bulgaria as usual. These are the descendants of these same Bulgarians, converted to Islam during the conquest era and the following years. These are children of the same country, of the same race, and of the same knee. And there is one part among them that does not speak a language other than Bulgarian. "

[Annihilus]

Did you add me by any chance? My dad should be full Balkan Turk.

Not sure where the R comes from but I doubt it's Europe.

[PAGANE]

In Greece, Bulgarian-speaking Muslims live in Western Thrace (the nomads Xanthi, Rhodopes and Evros). Until the early 20th century, those living in other areas of Greece were resettled in the 1920s by the Treaty of Lausanne in Western Thrace or Turkey.
The Bulgarian-speaking Muslim community in Greece is largely Turkic. Since 1990, the Greek state has been attempting to create a separate Pomak identity for fear of increasing Turkish influence in the Black Sea Thrace. In 1995-1996, a Greek-Pomak dictionary and a grammar in the Pomak language were published, and the authorities declared this community a "mixture of Turks, Bulgarians and Greeks" or "Slavic-speaking Greek Muslims". According to the Pangria Pomak Union, the seafarers in the Black Sea are about 80,000 people Ahmed Imam, leader of the organization in Xanthi, states:
"In 2 - 3 months we can learn to read in Bulgarian, we know grammar, this is our mother tongue. “A large group and entire Muslim-speaking Muslim villages live in Eastern Thrace (Turkey), most of them in Lyuleburgas and Edirne. These are mostly descendants of Pomak emigrants from the lost Balkan possessions of the Ottoman Empire. In Anatolia, Pomaks live mostly in Istanbul and around the city of Bursa. Another large number of the expelled Pomaks from Bulgaria in the period 1878 - 1912 live in the cities of Edirne, Canakkale, Izmir and in the surrounding villages of these cities. In the 1950s, a group of Pomaks because of their strong religious beliefs was interned in Syria, where they settled near the city of Aleppo.