Why do Kurds often get some Irish on DNA tests?

[Methuselah]

Discuss please.

[itilvolga]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatians_(people)

[Methuselah]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatians_(people)

Are you sure it's that? I guess many Dagestani get British on DNA tests too...

[Marmara]

Most likely because they have more Steppe admixture than average. It doesn't mean they really have Irish ancestry.

[Pandit]

Because Ancestorsoe Irish migrated from middle East.

[Borealis]

Steppe

[gıulıoımpa]

Galata---->Kalata----> Kelts

[Gangrel]

Celts

[Tigranes]

2:15


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Ez9R8D-80

[Methuselah]

Most likely because they have more Steppe admixture than average. It doesn't mean they really have Irish ancestry.
Same thing with Dagestani scoring British?

Because Ancestorsoe Irish migrated from middle East.
Some West Asian people migrated to Ireland afaik, no? https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/irish-have-roots-in-the-middle-east-and-black-sea-scientists-discover-34319957.html

2:15


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Ez9R8D-80
Did you get any British/ Irish?

[Babak]

Probably an error. Having 15% steppe admixture isnt going to show up on autosomal dna results.

[Methuselah]

Probably an error. Having 15% steppe admixture isnt going to show up on autosomal dna results.

So many Kurds and Dagestani are getting British and Irish.

[Grace O'Malley]

It's because dna tests aren't completely accurate especially with trace amounts. On My Heritage I have 2.8% Ashkenazi Jewish and on FTDNA I still have 2% Native American. On Livingdna I have 1.2% Pashtun and 1.4% Chechnya. People take dna tests too literally and on upgrades these trace amounts can disappear completely or change to something else. If anyone takes a few dna tests with different companies they would know that these trace amounts are not reliable.

[Lucas]

Discuss please.

I don't believe it is popular:) Post some results, best with kits...

[Bellbeaking]

Yes It is odd because a lot of people around the Cacusus and Turkey get 1-2% British/Irish, I have never seen any get Scandinavian or French and German. Irish/Brits have the highest steppe in europe that is off R1b origin AFAIK (Nordics are partly R1a steppe people). Perhaps there is something too these maps after all: (But I know nothing about genetics so IDK).

https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif

http://i59.tinypic.com/2r76ccw.gif

[J. Ketch]

Steppe connection, same reason my father gets Pashtun
https://i.postimg.cc/fLkHV11v/Capture255.jpg

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes It is odd because a lot of people around the Cacusus and Turkey get 1-2% British/Irish, I have never seen any get Scandinavian or French and German. Irish/Brits have the highest steppe in europe that is off R1b origin AFAIK (Nordics are partly R1a steppe people). Perhaps there is something too these maps after all: (But I know nothing about genetics so IDK).

https://www.eupedia.com/images/content/West-Asian-admixture.gif

http://i59.tinypic.com/2r76ccw.gif

They do. Even in that video posted he got trace Scandinavian and in his other result he got trace Finnish. People can get literally anything in their ancestry breakdowns especially with trace regions. It also happens the other way around with Europeans getting trace Caucacus, North African and all sorts of unusual results. It's the fault of the algorithms and also what they compare your dna against and what panels they use for a category. As an example places like Turkey don't even have a specific category and even if they did it is such a genetically mixed region they would need to break the country up into a lot of genetic areas for people to have a chance of matching their panels. It you look at Lebanese and Armenian results they get large amounts of Italian/Greek in their results because they put these populations into a very large category of West Asian and North African so how is a Turk and a Moroccan going to match that panel? They will both end up with a very different Ancestry Composition and won't match that large category so the algorithm will give them matches all over the place. Algerians for example get a large amount of Iberian for the same reason. Populations will have crossover but depending on what they are naming a category some populations will get false results.

Just looking at Irish results (because I know that quite well) most dna tests are skewed to Irish people. Even the British & Irish category on 23andMe is heavily skewed to Irish because basically what British & Irish is on 23andMe is an Irish panel so an Irish person tested will end up with almost a 100% match but because they don't have a proper category for an English or Dutch person they people will get some British & Irish but they won't match that category as well as an Irish person so they will get an Ancestry Comp that is broken down into some British & Irish, French & German, Scandinavian, Iberian etc because they aren't matched against a category that only has Dutch or English. I'm not really sure if any dna company can match any small area really well. Living DNA is trying to do this but because they are heavily skewed to British testers and don't have enough samples from other parts of Europe nearly everyone ends up with British results including Irish. Irish on that test end up with majority results from British areas because they have a lack of Irish samples. I hope people understand how these things work.

It would be interesting to hear Lukasz's take on this?

[Coastal Elite]

They do. Even in that video posted he got trace Scandinavian and in his other result he got trace Finnish. People can get literally anything in their ancestry breakdowns especially with trace regions. It also happens the other way around with Europeans getting trace Caucacus, North African and all sorts of unusual results. It's the fault of the algorithms and also what they compare your dna against and what panels they use for a category. As an example places like Turkey don't even have a specific category and even if they did it is such a genetically mixed region they would need to break the country up into a lot of genetic areas for people to have a chance of matching their panels. It you look at Lebanese and Armenian results they get large amounts of Italian/Greek in their results because they put these populations into a very large category of West Asian and North African so how is a Turk and a Moroccan going to match that panel? They will both end up with a very different Ancestry Composition and won't match that large category so the algorithm will give them matches all over the place. Algerians for example get a large amount of Iberian for the same reason. Populations will have crossover but depending on what they are naming a category some populations will get false results.

Just looking at Irish results (because I know that quite well) most dna tests are skewed to Irish people. Even the British & Irish category on 23andMe is heavily skewed to Irish because basically what British & Irish is on 23andMe is an Irish panel so an Irish person tested will end up with almost a 100% match but because they don't have a proper category for an English or Dutch person they people will get some British & Irish but they won't match that category as well as an Irish person so they will get an Ancestry Comp that is broken down into some British & Irish, French & German, Scandinavian, Iberian etc because they aren't matched against a category that only has Dutch or English. I'm not really sure if any dna company can match any small area really well. Living DNA is trying to do this but because they are heavily skewed to British testers and don't have enough samples from other parts of Europe nearly everyone ends up with British results including Irish. Irish on that test end up with majority results from British areas because they have a lack of Irish samples. I hope people understand how these things work.

It would be interesting to hear Lukasz's take on this?

I think one issue is that every Irish-American and their mother takes a DNA test which contributes to the skewing of results. I'm not sure why this is. This is especially true for Ancestry.com.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think one issue is that every Irish-American and their mother takes a DNA test which contributes to the skewing of results. I'm not sure why this is. This is especially true for Ancestry.com.

It's not really a problem with people taking tests it is just that dna companies have lobsided categories and also not enough regions. I know that on 23andMe the British & Irish category is heavily represented by Irish people. Britain has a population that is 12 times larger than Ireland but the British & Irish category that 23&Me uses has a much larger amount of Irish/Irish-Americans than British so this has the effect of Irish people matching that category and a Southeast English person only getting approx 40% British&Irish. Ancestry at least has split their category so that you have an Ireland & Scotland panel and an England, Wales and Northwestern Europe panel. The Ireland & Scotland category is only matching a small area and a very specific population so Irish will get 100% on that but the England, Wales and Northwestern Europe panel is too varied and is too large an area so it would be highly unlikely for someone to match that category 100%.

I also find it odd how people think because they have some Irish that is picking up some ancient Celtic ancestry or if they get Scandinavian it is showing Viking blood. It isn't. DNA companies are using modern populations for their panels. If you get some of these breakdowns in your ancestry composition it is because the algorithm will pick some category to compensate if your dna doesn't match a panel 100%. If for example they didn't have an Irish panel then your dna would have to be matched against the next closest panel and if you don't match that 100% the algorithm would match against another panel etc so Irish people would end up with a varied AC and not get 100%. This is how tests work.

When they did the People of the British Isles dna study when they wanted to look at deep ancestry for British people they removed Irish and British samples and just tested against European samples which gave them their admixture breakdown. So it all depends on what they call their panels and what your dna is being compared against.

[Coastal Elite]

It's not really a problem with people taking tests it is just that dna companies have lobsided categories and also not enough regions. I know that on 23andMe the British & Irish category is heavily represented by Irish people. Britain has a population that is 12 times larger than Ireland but the British & Irish category that 23&Me uses has a much larger amount of Irish/Irish-Americans than British so this has the effect of Irish people matching that category and a Southeast English person only getting approx 40% British&Irish. Ancestry at least has split their category so that you have an Ireland & Scotland panel and an England, Wales and Northwestern Europe panel. The Ireland & Scotland category is only matching a small area and a very specific population so Irish will get 100% on that but the England, Wales and Northwestern Europe panel is too varied and is too large an area so it would be highly unlikely for someone to match that category 100%.

I also find it odd how people think because they have some Irish that is picking up some ancient Celtic ancestry or if they get Scandinavian it is showing Viking blood. It isn't. DNA companies are using modern populations for their panels. If you get some of these breakdowns in your ancestry composition it is because the algorithm will pick some category to compensate if your dna doesn't match a panel 100%. If for example they didn't have an Irish panel then your dna would have to be matched against the next closest panel and if you don't match that 100% the algorithm would match against another panel etc so Irish people would end up with a varied AC and not get 100%. This is how tests work.

When they did the People of the British Isles dna study when they wanted to look at deep ancestry for British people they removed Irish and British samples and just tested against European samples which gave them their admixture breakdown. So it all depends on what they call their panels and what your dna is being compared against.

I wonder if the lopsided categories and lack regions is merely a reflection of the the samples they receive. I sometimes feel that people from the British Isles do a disproportionate amount of DNA testing compared to say people from Eastern Europe. So a given company can be very specific on Ireland because it has so many samples, but has to be very vague on East Europe due to lack of sample size. I've always interpreted an imbalance in sample size as the fundamental problem with these tests.

[Grace O'Malley]

I wonder if the lopsided categories and lack regions is merely a reflection of the the samples they receive. I sometimes feel that people from the British Isles do a disproportionate amount of DNA testing compared to say people from Eastern Europe. So a given company can be very specific on Ireland because it has so many samples, but has to be very vague on East Europe due to lack of sample size. I've always interpreted an imbalance in sample size as the fundamental problem with these tests.

It's overwhelmingly American testers so because Americans are mostly British and Irish these populations are catered for very well in genetic tests. MyHeritage still has a large amount of American testers but they are getting a reasonable amount of European testers which is why you will get a lot more European matches than with 23&Me, Ancestry etc. FTDNA appears to have a lot of British and Irish testers due to their monopoly on ydna, other countries dwarf in comparison. Many areas of the world are very under-represented in dna testing which is why dna companies don't really concentrate on those areas. The majority of dna testing is geared to Americans who want to know their recent ethnic background. Their is a lot of untapped areas for potential dna testing if you look at places like India and China.

What you have said in your comment in spot on. :thumb001:

[Coastal Elite]

It's overwhelmingly American testers so because Americans are mostly British and Irish these populations are catered for very well in genetic tests. MyHeritage still has a large amount of American testers but they are getting a reasonable amount of European testers which is why you will get a lot more European matches than with 23&Me, Ancestry etc. FTDNA appears to have a lot of British and Irish testers due to their monopoly on ydna, other countries dwarf in comparison. Many areas of the world are very under-represented in dna testing which is why dna companies don't really concentrate on those areas. The majority of dna testing is geared to Americans who want to know their recent ethnic background. Their is a lot of untapped areas for potential dna testing if you look at places like India and China.

What you have said in your comment in spot on. :thumb001:

Yes, very good points. I think it often goes unmentioned that DNA testing is phenomenally popular among Americans in general due to accessibility and affordability. I assume it's popular in Australia as well. I would guess a fair amount of East European-Americans take these tests but not enough people take the test in the actual Eastern European countries to get a quality sample size.

[Grace O'Malley]

Yes, very good points. I think it often goes unmentioned that DNA testing is phenomenally popular among Americans in general due to accessibility and affordability. I assume it's popular in Australia as well. I would guess a fair amount of East European-Americans take these tests but not enough people take the test in the actual Eastern European countries to get a quality sample size.

I don't think it's hugely popular in Australia yet. I know some people that have tested but alot of people aren't very aware of it. You don't see much advertising for dna testing here. It will grow in the years ahead. I guess from my own personal perspective I would like to see more testing in France. France is very under tested both for commercial dna tests and scientific studies. It is a bit of a black hole in that regard and would be a very important country genetically for Europe in general but especially for populations closest to it.

[Coastal Elite]

I don't think it's hugely popular in Australia yet. I know some people that have tested but alot of people aren't very aware of it. You don't see much advertising for dna testing here. It will grow in the years ahead. I guess from my own personal perspective I would like to see more testing in France. France is very under tested both for commercial dna tests and scientific studies. It is a bit of a black hole in that regard and would be a very important country genetically for Europe in general but especially for populations closest to it.

I'm also curious about France because I often plot near them on PCAs. I was wondering why there were so few real French people represented on PCAs on this website. I think it might be legal issue related to French law and DNA testing. I agree though, it would be great to see more French examples. French Canadians need to step up.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm also curious about France because I often plot near them on PCAs. I was wondering why there were so few real French people represented on PCAs on this website. I think it might be legal issue related to French law and DNA testing. I agree though, it would be great to see more French examples. French Canadians need to step up.

There are some French testers so it is interesting to compare their results. A lot of Bretons and Normans are very English like in their dna results. Southern France is very different genetically. I think French Canadians are not really a good substitute for testing of French because they descend from a very small population and so are a bit endogamous which is why if you have French Canadian ancestry you will have loads of matches to all French Canadians. What I would love to see is a good study of ancient genomes in France. It would be great for example to have an ancient Gaul and to compare them to moderns.