Eye color of British, German, French, Italian and Spanish parliamentarians.

[Ikiru]

I defined eye color as light and light-mixed when lighter than 7 included on the Martin Schultz scale.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88240&d=1558908896

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British parliamentarians: house of Commons.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_elected_in_the_2017_United_Kingdom_gen eral_election

53 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 41 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 556 remaining parliamentarians:

373 have light and light-mixed eyes.
183 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 67,1 %.

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German deputies.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://www.bundestag.de/en/members

31 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 10 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 668 remaining parliamentarians:

409 have light and light-mixed eyes.
259 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 61,2 %.

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French deputies.
Pictures can be accessed there: http://www2.assemblee-nationale.fr/deputes/liste/photo

97 (!) parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 7 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 473 remaining parliamentarians:

209 have light and light-mixed eyes.
264 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 44,2 %.

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Italian deputies.
Pictures can be accessed there: http://www.camera.it/leg18/28
The pictures are small so I often checked pictures on Google by myself to be sure about one's eye color.

8 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 3 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 630 remaining parliamentarians:

148 have light and light-mixed eyes.
482 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 23,5 %.

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Spanish deputies.
Names can be accessed there: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Diputados_de_la_XII_legislatura_de_Espa%C3%B 1a
There is seemingly no existing picture gallery of Spanish deputies, I looked for every picture by myself which is very time consuming.

2 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 3 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 369 remaining parliamentarians:

57 have light and light-mixed eyes.
312 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 15,4 %.

[Supercomputer]

Thanks, amazing work.

When you say lighter than 7 that presumably doesn't include 7. Am I right?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Amazing work mate.

[gıulıoımpa]

an impressive amount of work for sure. maybe it will be used for future projects.

[Ikiru]

Thanks, amazing work.

When you say lighter than 7 that presumably doesn't include 7. Am I right?

I did include 7 but not 8.

[Supercomputer]

Here are the numbers of my new study on Croatian parliament (150 individuals incl few Serb, Bosniak and Italian ones). I googled each member because the images on the parliament website are not very HQ.

Dark (Brown and hazel) = 47,5%
Yellow green = 13,3%
Green = 6,3%
Gray blue or gray = 18,2%
Pure blue (excl. gray-blue) = 14,7%

Total light eyes are 39,2%, very close to what I found on Matura.hr (37,6%).

[Supercomputer]

I did include 7 but not 8.

In that case I'm surprised by low German and Spanish numbers. A few months ago I counted the first 55 Bundestag (only ethnic German) members before losing interest and the results were as following:

Blue 26/55 or 47,3%
Gray or Green 18/55 or 32,7%
Hazel 5/55 or 9,1%
Brown 6/55 or 10,9%

In total 80% were light. It is very likely that it would drop if I counted the whole set, but still. I remember doing an earlier study on German parliament a few years back just dividing into "light" and "dark" and lights came out 73% almost exactly as in Virchow study.

Just out of curiosity, how did you count this woman?
https://www.bundestag.de/resource/image/517970/3x4/284/379/9fbc1e9b2e61249b0c4c5d501018be93/Go/arndt_brauer_ingrid_gross.jpg

Her eyes are gray or green.

[Ikiru]

In that case I'm surprised by low German and Spanish numbers. A few months ago I counted the first 55 Bundestag (only ethnic German) members before losing interest and the results were as following:

Blue 26/55 or 47,3%
Gray or Green 18/55 or 32,7%
Hazel 5/55 or 9,1%
Brown 6/55 or 10,9%

In total 80% were light. It is very likely that it would drop if I counted the whole set, but still. I remember doing an earlier study on German parliament a few years back just dividing into "light" and "dark" and lights came out 73% almost exactly as in Virchow study.

Just out of curiosity, how did you count this woman?
https://www.bundestag.de/resource/image/517970/3x4/284/379/9fbc1e9b2e61249b0c4c5d501018be93/Go/arndt_brauer_ingrid_gross.jpg

Her eyes are gray or green.

Her eyes are a 10 on the Martin-Schultz scale so I definitely must have put her in the dark-mixed and dark category.
I'm doing Sweden right now, once finished I'll post the results in one hour or two.
This Swedish MP is a 7 on the MS scale so I included her: https://data.riksdagen.se/filarkiv/bilder/ledamot/1ee04f4d-e5a6-4aab-8461-f5baa7d2a2da_320.jpg
This other Swedish MP is what I believe to be a 8 so I excluded him: https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/Bilder_och_dokument/lars-pussjpg_716205.html/ALTERNATES/BASE_FACEBOOK/Lars%20P%C3%BCss.jpg

I must say that I was generous especially with Spain when a limit case between 7 and 8 arose. I was surprised that among Spanish deputies there was almost no pure blue eyes (1a - 2b): only about 10 out of 369 deputies.

[Supercomputer]

Her eyes are a 10 on the Martin-Schultz scale so I definitely must have put her in the dark-mixed and dark category.
I'm doing Sweden right now, once finished I'll post the results in one hour or two.
This Swedish MP is a 7 on the MS scale so I included her: https://data.riksdagen.se/filarkiv/bilder/ledamot/1ee04f4d-e5a6-4aab-8461-f5baa7d2a2da_320.jpg
This other Swedish MP is what I believe to be a 8 so I excluded him: https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/Bilder_och_dokument/lars-pussjpg_716205.html/ALTERNATES/BASE_FACEBOOK/Lars%20P%C3%BCss.jpg

I must say that I was generous especially with Spain when a limit case between 7 and 8 arose. I was surprised that among Spanish deputies there was almost no pure blue eyes (1a - 2b): only about 10 out of 369 deputies.

Zoom in at maximum. Her eyes are gray/green. I guarantee you. This goes back to my point about image quality. You're right about the Swedish ones. Unsurprising since they have much better images.

[Bellbeaking]

Zoom in at maximum. Her eyes are gray/green. I guarantee you. This goes back to my point about image quality. You're right about the Swedish ones. Unsurprising since they have much better images.

https://www.ev-online.de/lokales/neuenkirchen/bilder/ingrid-arndt-brauer-bundestagsabgeordnete-der-spd-222446.jpg better image

https://www.nrwspd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/ingridxarndt-bauerxxspdxnrwxbundestag-e1493905792995-600x600.jpg

[Pansarkamrat]

Britts are Turanid

[Supercomputer]

https://www.ev-online.de/lokales/neuenkirchen/bilder/ingrid-arndt-brauer-bundestagsabgeordnete-der-spd-222446.jpg better image

https://www.nrwspd.de/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/05/ingridxarndt-bauerxxspdxnrwxbundestag-e1493905792995-600x600.jpg

It appears she has yellowish parts that were not visible in the fist image (probably due to strong lighting shining in her face). However it's still not a 10. An 8 I would say.

[Petalpusher]

"looks like a 10"

WRONG CHOICE OF WORDS



But seriously i don't think anybody would consider this light eyes.

[FountainOfSalmacis]

So, Britain is lighter eyed than Germany?

[Ikiru]

Swedish members of the Riksdagen.
Pictures can be accessed there: http://www.riksdagen.se/en/members-and-parties/

37 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique).
Among the 311 remaining parliamentarians:

260 have light and light-mixed eyes.
51 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 83,6 %.

[Supercomputer]

Swedish members of the Riksdagen.
Pictures can be accessed there: http://www.riksdagen.se/en/members-and-parties/

37 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique).
Among the 311 remaining parliamentarians:

260 have light and light-mixed eyes.
51 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 83,6 %.

All countries seem to be a bit lower than what historic scientific studies show. This could be partially be due to actual genetic changes from people moving into big cities and intermixing or due to methodology of observation. It is possible ToeKneeHwin tolerated a small yellow parts as long as they were smaller than the light parts under "light-mixed". His numbers were
88% Sweden
74% England
70% Germany
48% France
30% Italy
26% Spain

[Supercomputer]

Swedish members of the Riksdagen.
Pictures can be accessed there: http://www.riksdagen.se/en/members-and-parties/

37 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique).
Among the 311 remaining parliamentarians:

260 have light and light-mixed eyes.
51 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 83,6 %.

Romanian parliament also has very HQ pics. You could do Romania next.

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

where on that scale would you place my eye colour?

https://i.imgur.com/iMLDOLR.jpg

[renaissance12]

where on that scale would you place my eye colour?

https://i.imgur.com/iMLDOLR.jpg

Brown 9-10

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

Brown

on that scale, my italicroots friend :picard1:

[Ikiru]

Romanian parliament also has very HQ pics. You could do Romania next.

I'm doing Bulgaria right now as there seems to be some kind of controversy going on.
Pictures are small though but I google every green / hazel uncertain case.

[renaissance12]

on that scale, my italicroots friend :picard1:

Brown 9-10

[FountainOfSalmacis]

I'm doing Bulgaria right now as there seems to be some kind of controversy going on.
Pictures are small though but I google every green / hazel uncertain case.
What number on the scale would my eyes be?

88312

[Ikiru]

What number on the scale would my eyes be?

88312

Likely 5.

[Ikiru]

Bulgarian MPs.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://www.parliament.bg/en/MP
Pictures are small and I googled every uncertain case.

10 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 5 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 225 remaining parliamentarians:

37 have light and light-mixed eyes.
188 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 16,4 %.

[The Blade]

Bulgarian MPs.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://www.parliament.bg/en/MP
Pictures are small and I googled every uncertain case.

10 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 5 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 225 remaining parliamentarians:

37 have light and light-mixed eyes.
188 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 16,4 %.
I appreciate the effort but as of now what I can definitely say is that people with non-Bulgarian names are not 10 but 21.
I can list them if you want me to.

[Ikiru]

I appreciate the effort but as of now what I can definitely say is that people with non-Bulgarian names are not 10 but 21.
I can list them if you want me to.

Yes please list them and I'll correct it.

[The Blade]

Yes please list them and I'll correct it.
Non-Bulgarian names:
1) NIGYAR SAHLIM DZHAFER
2) ADLEN SHUKRI SHEVKED
3) AHMED REDZHEBOV AHMEDOV (during the communist era a lot of Turks accepted the -ov ending yet the basis of their names I have underlined here remained Turkish, you'll see several more cases like that below)
4) ALEKSANDAR MAIROV SIDI
5) ANGEL ILIEV ISAEV (Isaev is not a Bulgarian surname, he must be at least partly (if not fully) non-Bulgarian)
6) BYURHAN ILIYAZOV ABAZOV
7) DZHEYHAN HASANOV IBRYAMOV
8) ERDZHAN SEBAYTIN EBATIN
9) EROL OSMAN MEHMED
10) HALIL REDZHEPOV LETIFOV
11) HAMID BARI HAMID
12) HASAN AHMED ADEMOV
13) HAYRI REDZHEBOV SADAKOV
14) IHSAN HALIL HAKKA
15) IMREN ISMETOVA MEHMEDOVA
16) KRISTINA MAKSIMOVA SIDOROVA (Sidorova is a Russian surname, Bulgarian version is Siderova)
17) MUSTAFA SALI KARADAYI
18) RAMADAN BAYRAM ATALAY
19) SEVIM ISMAIL ALI
20) TANER MEHMED ALI
21) VEZHDI LETIF RASHIDOV
Also, Elena Yoncheva I didn't list here is 1/2 Bulgarian and 1/2 Russian.

[dperucca]

Bulgarian MPs.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://www.parliament.bg/en/MP
Pictures are small and I googled every uncertain case.

10 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 5 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 225 remaining parliamentarians:

37 have light and light-mixed eyes.
188 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 16,4 %.

Ikiru is one of my favorite Kurosawa movies. Awesome post!

[nafz]

Good work OP.

I think that the results you posted were expected with the only exception that of Brits having a higher light eye percentage than their German counterparts.

Some posters in the past have claimed that lightness of Germans is overestimated , and I have been doubtful of these claims, but it seems that your analysis may confirm these claims. Still not sure though. Thoughts?

[Ikiru]

Good work OP.

I think that the results you posted were expected with the only exception that of Brits having a higher light eye percentage than their German counterparts.

Some posters in the past have claimed that lightness of Germans is overestimated , and I have been doubtful of these claims, but it seems that your analysis may confirm these claims. Still not sure though. Thoughts?

Well I did expect the British to be about 5 points lighter-eyed than the Germans. Even though the figures of 61,2 and 67,1 are a bit lower than expected, the difference between them seems legit to me. I think the Germans are on average quite lighter-haired than the British but a bit less light-eyed than them.
Also perhaps good to say, on the pictures I examined the British seemed to have quite more blue eyes proper (1a - 2b) as opposed to gray-blue and grey eyes (3-6) compared to the Germans.

[Supercomputer]

Well I did expect the British to be about 5 points lighter-eyed than the Germans. Even though the figures of 61,2 and 67,1 are a bit lower than expected, the difference between them seems legit to me. I think the Germans are on average quite lighter-haired than the British but a bit less light-eyed than them.
Also perhaps good to say, on the pictures I examined the British seemed to have quite more blue eyes proper (1a - 2b) as opposed to gray-blue and grey eyes (3-6) compared to the Germans.

Let's not forget that the UK parliament includes Scotland and Northern Ireland. I don't know how many MPs are from these nations, but I's probable they increase the overall light eyes by a few percent.

[Supercomputer]

where on that scale would you place my eye colour?

https://i.imgur.com/iMLDOLR.jpg

Hazel. An 8 or a 10. Difficult to say since how much light is there.

[Supercomputer]

First 50 members of Austrian parliament (foreigners excluded)

Blue and gray 26/50 or 52%
Green 7/50 or 14%
Mixed evenly 6/50 or 12%
Mixed mostly dark 9/50 or 18%
Brown 9/50 or 18%

[Supercomputer]

double post

[Supercomputer]

Slovenian parliament

90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian

Out of 81 remaining

Blue 23/81 or 28,4%
Gray/Green 20/81 or 24,7%
Hazel 16/81 or 19,7%
Brown or mostly Brown 25/81 or 27,2%

Overall light and light-mixed eyes were 53,1%

[Supercomputer]

First 50 members of Austrian parliament (foreigners excluded)

Blue and gray 26/50 or 52%
Green 7/50 or 14%
Mixed evenly 6/50 or 12%
Mixed mostly dark 9/50 or 18%
Brown 9/50 or 18%

*Correction Blue and Gray is 19/50 (not 26/50 like I wrote originally) or 38% Overall light and light mixed eyes is 52%

[Alenka]

Slovenian parliament

90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian

Out of 81 remaining

Blue 23/81 or 28,4%
Gray/Green 20/81 or 24,7%
Hazel 16/81 or 19,7%
Brown or mostly Brown 25/81 or 27,2%

Overall light and light-mixed eyes were 53,1%
Which 9 stood out as non-Slovenian, if you don't mind listing the surnames?

[Supercomputer]

Which 9 stood out as non-Slovenian, if you don't mind listing the surnames?

Baković Predrag
Golubović Brane
Tomić Violeta
Rajić Branislav
Maurovič Nina
Simonovič Branko
Starović Vojko
Felice Žiža
Ferenc Horváth

[Supercomputer]

Which 9 stood out as non-Slovenian, if you don't mind listing the surnames?

Btw, what would be your estimate of light eyes in Slovakia? Very little studies on this country. I would guesstimate around 60%

[Supercomputer]

Slovenian parliament

90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian

Out of 81 remaining

Blue 23/81 or 28,4%
Gray/Green 20/81 or 24,7%
Hazel 16/81 or 19,7%
Brown or mostly Brown 25/81 or 27,2%

Overall light and light-mixed eyes were 53,1%

Light eyes by region (small sample size but still):

Gorenjska (North Slovenia) 55%
Primorska (Coastal Slovenia) 27%
Central West 45%
Central East 36%
Celje region (North East) 73%
Maribor region (North East) 55%
Dolenjska (South East) 36%
Prekmurska (Extreme East) 82%

Celje region is lightest and Coast is darkest just as I expected.

[Cristiano viejo]

Spanish deputies.
Names can be accessed there: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Diputados_de_la_XII_legislatura_de_Espa%C3%B 1a
There is seemingly no existing picture gallery of Spanish deputies, I looked for every picture by myself which is very time consuming.

2 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 3 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 369 remaining parliamentarians:

57 have light and light-mixed eyes.
312 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 15,4 %.

That I know there are 3 foreigners in that list (Nayua Alba Goveli, Rita Gertrudis Bosaho and Ana María Surra Spadea).

If you have taken these images of Wikipedia to check their eye colour... well :rolleyes:

[Ikiru]

Slovenian parliament

90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian

Out of 81 remaining

Blue 23/81 or 28,4%
Gray/Green 20/81 or 24,7%
Hazel 16/81 or 19,7%
Brown or mostly Brown 25/81 or 27,2%

Overall light and light-mixed eyes were 53,1%

Perhaps you need to give precise stats on the MS scale. I did Slovenia with my usual light (1-7) / dark (8+) definition and found a much lower result: 36,7 % (33 out of 90, I couldn't exclude foreigners though because I can't differenciate Slovenians from Croats, etc.)

[Supercomputer]

Perhaps you need to give precise stats on the MS scale. I did Slovenia with my usual light (1-7) / dark (8+) definition and found a much lower result: 36,7 % (33 out of 90, I couldn't exclude foreigners though because I can't differenciate Slovenians from Croats, etc.)

That fits well with my numbers applied with your definition (which excludes all brown/yellowish admixes even if they are much smaller than the light part). I personally consider these eyes https://www.dz-rs.si/wps/PA_DZ-LN-Osebe/CommonRes?idOseba=P182 to be light even tough they have small yellowish parts. Your numbers for all countries are surprisingly low, fit almost perfectly with "blue eyes" numbers from ToeKneeHwin.

[Alenka]

Perhaps you need to give precise stats on the MS scale. I did Slovenia with my usual light (1-7) / dark (8+) definition and found a much lower result: 36,7 % (33 out of 90, I couldn't exclude foreigners though because I can't differenciate Slovenians from Croats, etc.)
Yes, when I skimmed through them the other day, this approximately is the percentage I got as well (for the parliament as a whole, without excluding minorities). The current Croatian parliament is lighter in comparison.

[Supercomputer]

Yes, when I skimmed through them the other day, this approximately is the percentage I got as well (for the parliament as a whole, without excluding minorities). The current Croatian parliament is lighter in comparison.

According to a modern scientific study done on live subject Slovenians have 44.7% eyes labeled "blue" (probably includes gray) additional 11% are green or light with small spots. So 36% sourns really low.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760663/


In the studied population sample, blue eye color was present with the frequency 44.7%, while according to the Eupedia (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_of_europe.shtml#eye_colour), the expected frequency of light eyed individuals in Slovenia should be between 50% and 79%. However, most of the individuals included in the intermediate category had green irises and blue irises with brown spots or peripupillary rings and therefore could be included in the group of light eyed people. Taking this into account, it can be said that the percentage of light-eyed individuals in the study was 56%, which is in accordance with the Eupedia.

I would count the parliament again for unmixed light eyes, to see if it's really 36% but I'm too lazy.

[Alenka]

Baković Predrag
Golubović Brane
Tomić Violeta
Rajić Branislav
Maurovič Nina
Simonovič Branko
Starović Vojko
Felice Žiža
Ferenc Horváth
Some additional that I notice:
Serb: Peric Gregor, Sukic Natasa
Croat: Hrsak Ivan
Bosniak: Hot Meira
Italian: Bandelli Marko
plus this one has a Dalmatian mom: Trcek Franci

But personally I'd also exclude these with obviously German-derived surnames (it's only fair if you ask me, i don't see why exclude only "southern" origin last names):
German: Cigler Zeljko, Furman Karmen, Heferle Tina, Irgl Eva, Kociper Masa, Möderndorfer Jani, Rajh Andrej, Siter Primož, Tasner Matej

But I think this doesn't change things much. We have a dark parliament indeed.

[Alenka]

According to a modern scientific study done on live subject Slovenians have 44.7% eyes labeled "blue" (probably includes gray) additional 11% are green or light with small spots. So 36% sourns really low.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3760663/
The sample of people in our parliament is quite small though tbh, especially if you exclude those bearing foreign surnames. The last time around they were somewhat lighter if I remember correctly. I'm curious what they turn out like after the next election. Hopefully lighter and not darker, because otherwise Croatia officially takes the throne of lightest Balkanite.
xD

[Alenka]

Btw, what would be your estimate of light eyes in Slovakia? Very little studies on this country. I would guesstimate around 60%
I don't know anything about Slovakia, I just like their flag. If I was to guess I'd say they're darker than Czechs and lighter than Hungarians. I'm afraid that's the best estimation I can give for the time being.
:coffee:

[Bellbeaking]

Let's not forget that the UK parliament includes Scotland and Northern Ireland. I don't know how many MPs are from these nations, but I's probable they increase the overall light eyes by a few percent.

Scotland = 59/560 = 9.8% of MP's with around 8% the UK's population. Less Scottish MPs are ethnic minorities as well.
NI has 18 seats, Sinn Fein has 7 and don't turn up. Not sure if OP included them, probably did. 3.2% of Seats and around 2.9% of the UK population.

13% of Seats with only 10.9% population, maybe 15% of white British seats, they are about 10% more light eyed than England/Wales AFAIK. They may may make a difference of around 1-2% of light eyes but not more than that.

[FountainOfSalmacis]

Would Scotland be comparable in light eyes to Denmark? Or is Ireland a more appropriate comparison?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

I don't know anything about Slovakia, I just like their flag. If I was to guess I'd say they're darker than Czechs and lighter than Hungarians. I'm afraid that's the best estimation I can give for the time being.
:coffee:

Idk why people think Slovaks are lighter than Slovenians. I think they're on par

[Ikiru]

Some additional that I notice:
Serb: Peric Gregor, Sukic Natasa
Croat: Hrsak Ivan
Bosniak: Hot Meira
Italian: Bandelli Marko
plus this one has a Dalmatian mom: Trcek Franci

But personally I'd also exclude these with obviously German-derived surnames (it's only fair if you ask me, i don't see why exclude only "southern" origin last names):
German: Cigler Zeljko, Furman Karmen, Heferle Tina, Irgl Eva, Kociper Masa, Möderndorfer Jani, Rajh Andrej, Siter Primož, Tasner Matej

But I think this doesn't change things much. We have a dark parliament indeed.

There is a difference between minorities who are truly foreign and minorities who are somehow part of the nation. For example in France I didn't exclude German surnames because they're generally beared by people native of the region of Alsace-Moselle. I excluded all Spaniards or Spanish-descended people though because they're nowhere native in France. Another example: I found two French surnames in the Swedish parliament, those were beared by people very likely descended from Huguenots who emigrated there during the 17th century and who weren't ethnically French for a very long time (like Nigel Farage in the UK), so I didn't exclude them, both were light-eyed anyway. That might be the case for German name-bearers in Slovenia too.

[Alenka]

There is a difference between minorities who are truly foreign and minorities who are somehow part of the nation. For example in France I didn't exclude German surnames because they're generally beared by people native of the region of Alsace-Moselle. I excluded all Spaniards or Spanish-descended people though because they're nowhere native in France. Another example: I found two French surnames in the Swedish parliament, those were beared by people very likely descended from Huguenots who emigrated there during the 17th century and who weren't ethnically French for a very long time (like Nigel Farage in the UK), so I didn't exclude them, both were light-eyed anyway. That might be the case for German name-bearers in Slovenia too.
I don't know man, opinions on this probably largely depend on who you ask. But in this case they are notably more light eyed than the rest of our local parliament members which to me supports the notion that they are in fact different. If they were the same, then their % of light eyes should be rougly the same as the rest, but in the given sample it's not.
Could be interesting to also compare and contrast people of Alsace-Moselle with French surnames/German surnames and see if they differ.

[Ikiru]

There are few people with French surnames in Alsace. See: 88374
There is really not much difference between Alsace and the neighboring mostly ethnically French region of Lorraine in terms of light eye pigmentation according to all studies on the matter (6 studies I and Supercomputer gathered).
That being said I don't think the percentage of light eyes in Slovenia is as low 36 %, 90 is a number really too small to make a proper estimation. I'll do Hungary and Croatia next and we'll see.

[Bellbeaking]

Would Scotland be comparable in light eyes to Denmark? Or is Ireland a more appropriate comparison?

Scotland and Ireland are comparable to Lithuania in terms of light eyes while Denmark is comparable to Latvia. In terms over very light eyes 1-2 on the scale those are probably more common in the British Isles than other places including Finland.

[Supercomputer]

There are few people with French surnames in Alsace. See: 88374
There is really not much difference between Alsace and the neighboring mostly ethnically French region of Lorraine in terms of light eye pigmentation according to all studies on the matter (6 studies I and Supercomputer gathered).
That being said I don't think the percentage of light eyes in Slovenia is as low 36 %, 90 is a number really too small to make a proper estimation. I'll do Hungary and Croatia next and we'll see.

It would be nice if you also include the number for eyes that are mostly light and have just small admixture. Most people consider these eyes light.

[Supercomputer]

The sample of people in our parliament is quite small though tbh, especially if you exclude those bearing foreign surnames. The last time around they were somewhat lighter if I remember correctly. I'm curious what they turn out like after the next election. Hopefully lighter and not darker, because otherwise Croatia officially takes the throne of lightest Balkanite.
xD

I counted it several years back and it was 54%, not much different than what I got now. Personally I care more about what this parliament does with it's power than weather it's light or not.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Impressive study and work, but including 7(and even 6) on the scale as "light" completely renders it useless and inaccurate, in my opinion. Nice job anyway.

[Alenka]

I counted it several years back and it was 54%, not much different than what I got now.
I don't know what year you counted, but I posted the parliament back in 2014. Many pictures are gone but all the names are still there. From my observation quickly looking these individuals up on google images today, they were nocticeably more light eyed than this time around. But even then they are maaaybe up to about 45% by my criteria. Maybe my criteria is somewhat stricter, but I'd say it's more reasonable. I honestly don't know how you possibly got over 50% for the current parliament, especially if you only excluded the 9 you listed. Your categorization seems very loose to me. Eyes with brown parts aren't light.

Not to mention I don't understand some of your methods regarding these statistics, for example why you excluded Felice Žiža but included Bandelli Marko when they are both of Italian descent, it's better to simply include everyone then rather than do stuff like this. So for now I'll stick with Ikru's number of about 36%.

[The Blade]

That fits well with my numbers applied with your definition (which excludes all brown/yellowish admixes even if they are much smaller than the light part). I personally consider these eyes https://www.dz-rs.si/wps/PA_DZ-LN-Osebe/CommonRes?idOseba=P182 to be light even tough they have small yellowish parts. Your numbers for all countries are surprisingly low, fit almost perfectly with "blue eyes" numbers from ToeKneeHwin.
Now, when you are right - you are. No problem for me to agree when I really do.

[savvas]

Bulgarian MPs.
Pictures can be accessed there: https://www.parliament.bg/en/MP
Pictures are small and I googled every uncertain case.

10 parliamentarians stand out as non native (name and obviously foreign physique) and I couldn't determine the eye color of 5 others due to blurred or non available pictures.
Among the 225 remaining parliamentarians:

37 have light and light-mixed eyes.
188 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 16,4 %.

Are you sure you're doing this the right way? Because I count at least 46 clear cases out of 218 (240 - 22 parliamentarians of Turkish/Russian origin listed by The Blade). That's a 21.1% percentage.

Clear cases to me are:


1. TSVETA VALCHEVA KARAYANCHEVA
2. ALEKSANDAR IVANOV MATSUREV
3. ALEKSANDAR RUMENOV NENKOV
4. ANDRIAN IVANOV RAYKOV
5. ANELIYA DIMITROVA KLISAROVA
6. ASYA ATANASOVA PEEVA
7. BORYANA LYUBENOVA GEORGIEVA
8. VALENTIN GEORGIEV LAMBEV
9. VALENTIN IVANOV RADEV
10. VASIL MILANOV ANTONOV
11. VESSELA NIKOLAEVA LETCHEVA
12. VOLEN NIKOLOV SIDEROV
13. GEORGI GEORGIEV MIHAYLOV
14. GEORGI EVDOKIEV MARKOV
15. GEORGI YORDANOV YORDANOV
16. GEORGI CHENKOV TARNOVALIYSKI
17. DANIEL PETKOV YORDANOV
18. DENCHO STOYANOV BOYADZHIEV
19. DIANA DIMOVA SAVATEVA
20. DIMITAR BOYCHEV PETROV
21. DORA ILIEVA IANKOVA
22. EMILIYA VESELINOVA STANEVA-MILKOVA
23. IVAN IVAYLOV CHENCHEV
24. ISKREN VASILEV VESELINOV
25. KALIN NIKOLOV POPOVSKI
26. KIRIL BOYANOV KALFIN
27. KOLYO YORDANOV MILEV
28. KRASEN GEORGIEV KRASTEV
29. KRASIMIR LYUBOMIROV VELCHEV
30. MANOL TRIFONOV GENOV
31. MILENA TSVETANOVA DAMYANOVA
32. MIHAIL IVAYLOV HRISTOV
33. PETAR GEORGIEV KANEV
34. PLAMEN DULCHEV NUNEV
35. PLAMEN TRIFONOV HRISTOV
36. POLINA TSVETOSLAVOVA TSANKOVA-HRISTOVA
37. RADOSLAVA PLAMEN CHEKANSKA
38. RUMEN VASSILEV GECHEV
39. RUMEN NIKOLOV GEORGIEV
40. SIMEON HRISTOV SIMEONOV
41. STANISLAV IVANOV VLADIMIROV
42. STANISLAV TODOROV STANILOV
43. STEFAN APOSTOLOV APOSTOLOV
44. TEODORA ATANASOVA HALACHEVA
45. TODOR BAYCHEV BAYCHEV
46. NIKOLAY KRASTEV BOSHKILOV

Pics:

1.
https://i.imgur.com/24Wjvb9.jpg
2.
https://i.imgur.com/We6yYVh.jpg
3.
https://i.imgur.com/wADw92Y.jpg
4.
https://i.imgur.com/qPF7avK.jpg
5.
https://i.imgur.com/jMMjxre.jpg
6.
https://i.imgur.com/alsrsxs.jpg
7.
https://i.imgur.com/vLzLN2u.jpg
8.
https://i.imgur.com/vvafZBg.jpg
9.
https://i.imgur.com/DkccF1N.jpg
10.
https://i.imgur.com/RO4tlxG.jpg
11.
https://i.imgur.com/yEoXz0f.jpg
12.
https://i.imgur.com/LRvVXN3.jpg
13.
https://i.imgur.com/cG39QRZ.jpg
14.
https://i.imgur.com/bQj5o87.jpg
15.
https://i.imgur.com/zs4hfWj.jpg
16.
https://i.imgur.com/scEhdSK.jpg
17.
https://i.imgur.com/pHgSrDr.jpg
18.
https://i.imgur.com/9iJMuli.jpg
19.
https://i.imgur.com/TK3aizz.jpg
20.
https://i.imgur.com/lTVR5am.jpg

[savvas]

Are you sure you're doing this the right way? Because I count at least 46 clear cases out of 218 (240 - 22 parliamentarians of Turkish/Russian origin listed by The Blade). That's a 21.1% percentage.

Clear cases to me are:


1. TSVETA VALCHEVA KARAYANCHEVA
2. ALEKSANDAR IVANOV MATSUREV
3. ALEKSANDAR RUMENOV NENKOV
4. ANDRIAN IVANOV RAYKOV
5. ANELIYA DIMITROVA KLISAROVA
6. ASYA ATANASOVA PEEVA
7. BORYANA LYUBENOVA GEORGIEVA
8. VALENTIN GEORGIEV LAMBEV
9. VALENTIN IVANOV RADEV
10. VASIL MILANOV ANTONOV
11. VESSELA NIKOLAEVA LETCHEVA
12. VOLEN NIKOLOV SIDEROV
13. GEORGI GEORGIEV MIHAYLOV
14. GEORGI EVDOKIEV MARKOV
15. GEORGI YORDANOV YORDANOV
16. GEORGI CHENKOV TARNOVALIYSKI
17. DANIEL PETKOV YORDANOV
18. DENCHO STOYANOV BOYADZHIEV
19. DIANA DIMOVA SAVATEVA
20. DIMITAR BOYCHEV PETROV
21. DORA ILIEVA IANKOVA
22. EMILIYA VESELINOVA STANEVA-MILKOVA
23. IVAN IVAYLOV CHENCHEV
24. ISKREN VASILEV VESELINOV
25. KALIN NIKOLOV POPOVSKI
26. KIRIL BOYANOV KALFIN
27. KOLYO YORDANOV MILEV
28. KRASEN GEORGIEV KRASTEV
29. KRASIMIR LYUBOMIROV VELCHEV
30. MANOL TRIFONOV GENOV
31. MILENA TSVETANOVA DAMYANOVA
32. MIHAIL IVAYLOV HRISTOV
33. PETAR GEORGIEV KANEV
34. PLAMEN DULCHEV NUNEV
35. PLAMEN TRIFONOV HRISTOV
36. POLINA TSVETOSLAVOVA TSANKOVA-HRISTOVA
37. RADOSLAVA PLAMEN CHEKANSKA
38. RUMEN VASSILEV GECHEV
39. RUMEN NIKOLOV GEORGIEV
40. SIMEON HRISTOV SIMEONOV
41. STANISLAV IVANOV VLADIMIROV
42. STANISLAV TODOROV STANILOV
43. STEFAN APOSTOLOV APOSTOLOV
44. TEODORA ATANASOVA HALACHEVA
45. TODOR BAYCHEV BAYCHEV
46. NIKOLAY KRASTEV BOSHKILOV

Pics (part 2):
21.
https://i.imgur.com/hkJuL6i.jpg
22.
https://i.imgur.com/zjQaAZi.jpg
23.
https://i.imgur.com/1iiDCFf.jpg
24.
https://i.imgur.com/DBNiXzt.jpg
25.
https://i.imgur.com/jb5UVlD.png
26.
https://i.imgur.com/39CKyvC.jpg
27.
https://i.imgur.com/tEWhUwX.jpg
28.
https://i.imgur.com/7jeYPXZ.jpg
29.
https://i.imgur.com/D1MdDyl.jpg
30.
https://i.imgur.com/koDTkeb.jpg
31.
https://i.imgur.com/ju8xYBg.jpg
32.
https://i.imgur.com/XQ4QStq.jpg
33.
https://i.imgur.com/xfd3C9Q.jpg
34.
https://i.imgur.com/NkKvRIw.jpg
35.
https://i.imgur.com/1ceakR9.jpg
36.
https://i.imgur.com/hgsqJuK.jpg
37.
https://i.imgur.com/FphmkGj.jpg
38.
https://i.imgur.com/1oKKOKi.jpg
39.
https://i.imgur.com/gdeoua5.jpg
40.
https://i.imgur.com/K8tMuBT.jpg

[savvas]

Are you sure you're doing this the right way? Because I count at least 46 clear cases out of 218 (240 - 22 parliamentarians of Turkish/Russian origin listed by The Blade). That's a 21.1% percentage.

Clear cases to me are:


1. TSVETA VALCHEVA KARAYANCHEVA
2. ALEKSANDAR IVANOV MATSUREV
3. ALEKSANDAR RUMENOV NENKOV
4. ANDRIAN IVANOV RAYKOV
5. ANELIYA DIMITROVA KLISAROVA
6. ASYA ATANASOVA PEEVA
7. BORYANA LYUBENOVA GEORGIEVA
8. VALENTIN GEORGIEV LAMBEV
9. VALENTIN IVANOV RADEV
10. VASIL MILANOV ANTONOV
11. VESSELA NIKOLAEVA LETCHEVA
12. VOLEN NIKOLOV SIDEROV
13. GEORGI GEORGIEV MIHAYLOV
14. GEORGI EVDOKIEV MARKOV
15. GEORGI YORDANOV YORDANOV
16. GEORGI CHENKOV TARNOVALIYSKI
17. DANIEL PETKOV YORDANOV
18. DENCHO STOYANOV BOYADZHIEV
19. DIANA DIMOVA SAVATEVA
20. DIMITAR BOYCHEV PETROV
21. DORA ILIEVA IANKOVA
22. EMILIYA VESELINOVA STANEVA-MILKOVA
23. IVAN IVAYLOV CHENCHEV
24. ISKREN VASILEV VESELINOV
25. KALIN NIKOLOV POPOVSKI
26. KIRIL BOYANOV KALFIN
27. KOLYO YORDANOV MILEV
28. KRASEN GEORGIEV KRASTEV
29. KRASIMIR LYUBOMIROV VELCHEV
30. MANOL TRIFONOV GENOV
31. MILENA TSVETANOVA DAMYANOVA
32. MIHAIL IVAYLOV HRISTOV
33. PETAR GEORGIEV KANEV
34. PLAMEN DULCHEV NUNEV
35. PLAMEN TRIFONOV HRISTOV
36. POLINA TSVETOSLAVOVA TSANKOVA-HRISTOVA
37. RADOSLAVA PLAMEN CHEKANSKA
38. RUMEN VASSILEV GECHEV
39. RUMEN NIKOLOV GEORGIEV
40. SIMEON HRISTOV SIMEONOV
41. STANISLAV IVANOV VLADIMIROV
42. STANISLAV TODOROV STANILOV
43. STEFAN APOSTOLOV APOSTOLOV
44. TEODORA ATANASOVA HALACHEVA
45. TODOR BAYCHEV BAYCHEV
46. NIKOLAY KRASTEV BOSHKILOV

Pics (part 3):

41.
https://i.imgur.com/CIEPZBk.jpg
42.
https://i.imgur.com/B8CcS4I.jpg
43.
https://i.imgur.com/5z8uAnn.png
44.
https://i.imgur.com/NKp3X1i.jpg
45.
https://i.imgur.com/7OI1SWm.jpg
46.
https://i.imgur.com/EBOZOcq.jpg

[Supercomputer]

. Your categorization seems very loose to me. Eyes with brown parts aren't light.

Not to mention I don't understand some of your methods regarding these statistics, for example why you excluded Felice Žiža but included Bandelli Marko when they are both of Italian descent, it's better to simply include everyone then rather than do stuff like this. So for now I'll stick with Ikru's number of about 36%.

So you don't consider these eyes light?

https://i.postimg.cc/XYX5TZdf/Light-or-dark-eyes.png

Felice Žiža is a representative of the Italian minority so he isn't Slovenian for sure. I don't know Bandelli, but since he isn't a representative for Italian minority I figured him as a Slovenian with Italian last name just like people Boris Cavazza etc or Slovenians with German last names. I didn't figure it so important to to find additional few non Slovenians to have to Google very single MP as it wouldn't change the overall number by much which is already a very general figure with only a sample size of 80 or so.

[Alenka]

Felice Žiža is a representative of the Italian minority so he isn't Slovenian for sure. I don't know Bandelli, but since he isn't a representative for Italian minority I figured him as a Slovenian with Italian last name just like people Boris Cavazza etc
Oh no man, you don't get to decide that Felice Žiža "isn't Slovenian for sure". To me he is more Slovenian than Cavazza because at least he is from the Italian community native to Slovenia. Boris Cavazza has a Slovenian mother and a Italian father, and his father is not even Italian native to the territory of Slovenia but directly from Italy. To call Boris "a Slovenian with an Italian last name" is super disrespectful to someone who likes to stress his Italianess often. You're being very ignorant now.

And you don't have to know Bandelii to know that's not a Slovene last name. That's ridiculous.
The 9 you excluded don't stand out more than Bandelli in any way.


I didn't figure it so important to to find additional few non Slovenians to have to Google very single MP as it wouldn't change the overall number by much which is already a very general figure with only a sample size of 80 or so.
Your claim "90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian" is problematic because nobody in the parliament actually stands out as non-Slovenian. No Negroids in the parliament to really "stand out as non-Slovenian." All of them can reasonably pass. If you're going to be lazy and sloppy with your methods then simply include everyone next time. That way you at least you don't get to say you only included ethnic Slovenes when that clearly isn't the case.
You included everyone in the Croatian parliament, so next time do the same with the Slovenian parliament.

[Ikiru]

Are you sure you're doing this the right way? Because I count at least 46 clear cases out of 218 (240 - 22 parliamentarians of Turkish/Russian origin listed by The Blade). That's a 21.1% percentage.

Clear cases to me are:


1. TSVETA VALCHEVA KARAYANCHEVA
2. ALEKSANDAR IVANOV MATSUREV
3. ALEKSANDAR RUMENOV NENKOV
4. ANDRIAN IVANOV RAYKOV
5. ANELIYA DIMITROVA KLISAROVA
6. ASYA ATANASOVA PEEVA
7. BORYANA LYUBENOVA GEORGIEVA
8. VALENTIN GEORGIEV LAMBEV
9. VALENTIN IVANOV RADEV
10. VASIL MILANOV ANTONOV
11. VESSELA NIKOLAEVA LETCHEVA
12. VOLEN NIKOLOV SIDEROV
13. GEORGI GEORGIEV MIHAYLOV
14. GEORGI EVDOKIEV MARKOV
15. GEORGI YORDANOV YORDANOV
16. GEORGI CHENKOV TARNOVALIYSKI
17. DANIEL PETKOV YORDANOV
18. DENCHO STOYANOV BOYADZHIEV
19. DIANA DIMOVA SAVATEVA
20. DIMITAR BOYCHEV PETROV
21. DORA ILIEVA IANKOVA
22. EMILIYA VESELINOVA STANEVA-MILKOVA
23. IVAN IVAYLOV CHENCHEV
24. ISKREN VASILEV VESELINOV
25. KALIN NIKOLOV POPOVSKI
26. KIRIL BOYANOV KALFIN
27. KOLYO YORDANOV MILEV
28. KRASEN GEORGIEV KRASTEV
29. KRASIMIR LYUBOMIROV VELCHEV
30. MANOL TRIFONOV GENOV
31. MILENA TSVETANOVA DAMYANOVA
32. MIHAIL IVAYLOV HRISTOV
33. PETAR GEORGIEV KANEV
34. PLAMEN DULCHEV NUNEV
35. PLAMEN TRIFONOV HRISTOV
36. POLINA TSVETOSLAVOVA TSANKOVA-HRISTOVA
37. RADOSLAVA PLAMEN CHEKANSKA
38. RUMEN VASSILEV GECHEV
39. RUMEN NIKOLOV GEORGIEV
40. SIMEON HRISTOV SIMEONOV
41. STANISLAV IVANOV VLADIMIROV
42. STANISLAV TODOROV STANILOV
43. STEFAN APOSTOLOV APOSTOLOV
44. TEODORA ATANASOVA HALACHEVA
45. TODOR BAYCHEV BAYCHEV
46. NIKOLAY KRASTEV BOSHKILOV

Pics:

1.
https://i.imgur.com/24Wjvb9.jpg
2.
https://i.imgur.com/We6yYVh.jpg
3.
https://i.imgur.com/wADw92Y.jpg
4.
https://i.imgur.com/qPF7avK.jpg
5.
https://i.imgur.com/jMMjxre.jpg
6.
https://i.imgur.com/alsrsxs.jpg
7.
https://i.imgur.com/vLzLN2u.jpg
8.
https://i.imgur.com/vvafZBg.jpg
9.
https://i.imgur.com/DkccF1N.jpg
10.
https://i.imgur.com/RO4tlxG.jpg
11.
https://i.imgur.com/yEoXz0f.jpg
12.
https://i.imgur.com/LRvVXN3.jpg
13.
https://i.imgur.com/cG39QRZ.jpg
14.
https://i.imgur.com/bQj5o87.jpg
15.
https://i.imgur.com/zs4hfWj.jpg
16.
https://i.imgur.com/scEhdSK.jpg
17.
https://i.imgur.com/pHgSrDr.jpg
18.
https://i.imgur.com/9iJMuli.jpg
19.
https://i.imgur.com/TK3aizz.jpg
20.
https://i.imgur.com/lTVR5am.jpg

Thanks for your research.
3, 5, 21, 25, 28 and 44 are all 8 or so on the MS scale and should be labelled as dark-mixed at least according to the definition given in this thread (just one definition among many, some narrower, some looser). I and Supercomputer discussed the 7 / 8 (light green / dark green) boundary and provided examples on the 1st page of this thread.
22 might be darker than 8 though (see: 88416).
This would make 39 light and light-mixed eyes out of 218: 17,9 %.

[Supercomputer]

Oh no man, you don't get to decide that Felice Žiža "isn't Slovenian for sure". To me he is more Slovenian than Cavazza because at least he is from the Italian community native to Slovenia. Boris Cavazza has a Slovenian mother and a Italian father, and his father is not even Italian native to the territory of Slovenia but directly from Italy. To call Boris "a Slovenian with an Italian last name" is super disrespectful to someone who likes to stress his Italianess often. You're being very ignorant now.

And you don't have to know Bandelii to know that's not a Slovene last name. That's ridiculous.
The 9 you excluded don't stand out more than Bandelli in any way.


I didn't know about Cavazza and frankly it doesn't matter. You're just using it as an excuse to avoid the point I was making. Not every Slovenian with an Italian last name should necessarily be excluded, you yourself included people with German names. I didn't feel Googling every single person to find out what his ancestry are for my mini study which is already a very general one. It's enough work as it is for something not so important as we already have a plethora of scientific evidence (thanks to me) much better than our internet picture studies that come from times when non-Slovenians practically didn't exist in our country.


Your claim "90 MPs 9 of them stand out as non-Slovenian" is problematic because nobody in the parliament actually stands out as non-Slovenian. No Negroids in the parliament to really "stand out as non-Slovenian." All of them can reasonably pass. If you're going to be lazy and sloppy with your methods then simply include everyone next time. That way you at least you don't get to say you only included ethnic Slovenes when that clearly isn't the case.
You included everyone in the Croatian parliament, so next time do the same with the Slovenian parliament.

Jesus you are totally obsessed with minutia. Get a life woman. I included all in the Croatia study because It's harder for me to distinguish Croatian and Serbian last names. In Slovenia, I simply searched for -ić and -vić last names along with a few -ič that stand out as non Slovenian, (but there are also -ič last names that are Slovenian) plus I added the two ethnic minority representatives. Seemed like enough at that time. You correctly added a few more that I didn't notice initially in the previous post which was good, but I don't know what's gotten in to you lately , you seemed like a nice person until yesterday.

[Alenka]

I didn't know about Cavazza and frankly it doesn't matter. You're just using it as an excuse to avoid the point I was making. Not every Slovenian with an Italian last name should necessarily be excluded, you yourself included people with German names. I didn't feel Googling every single person to find out what his ancestry are for my mini study which is already a very general one. It's enough work as it is for something not so important as we already have a plethora of scientific evidence (thanks to me) much better than our internet picture studies that come from times when non-Slovenians practically didn't exist in our country.

I didn't say "you should exclude every Slovenian with an Italian last name," but simply that you either include all or leave out all. There's a difference. I'm not advocating exclusion, I'm advocating consistency.
In my 2014 thread I didn't exclude people with German surnames because they weren't collectively so much lighter. Most of about 5 were actually either brown or hazel eyed if I remember correctly, so the number of light eyes would've actually been higher without them. In the current mandate the situation is different, the percentage of light eyes significantly lowers if you exclude them because they are so light eyed.

You still didn't explain why you excluded individuals from the Slovenian parliament when you didn't from the Croatian one. I don't see how that's reasonable. If they deserve inclusivity then we do too.

[Supercomputer]

Thanks for your research.
3, 5, 21, 25, 28 and 44 are all 8 or so on the MS scale and should be labelled as dark-mixed at least according to the definition given in this thread (just one definition among many, some narrower, some looser). I and Supercomputer discussed the 7 / 8 (light green / dark green) boundary and provided examples on the 1st page of this thread.
22 might be darker than 8 though (see: 88416).
This would make 39 light and light-mixed eyes out of 218: 17,9 %.

I you were to ask me 3 and 28 are both #6 on the scale so they're light. 25 looks like even lighter. That's the problem with scales. Measuring is subjective from person to person lol.

[Supercomputer]

You still didn't explain why you excluded individuals from the Slovenian parliament when you didn't from the Croatian one. I don't see how that's reasonable. If they deserve inclusivity then we do too.

I explained it.

[Alenka]

Iesus you are totally obsessed with minutia. Get a life woman. I included all in the Croatia study because It's harder for me to distinguish Croatian and Serbian last names. In Slovenia, I simply searched for -ić and -vić last names along with a few -ič that stand out as non Slovenian, (but there are also -ič last names that are Slovenian) plus I added the two ethnic minority representatives. Seemed like enough at that time. You correctly added a few more that I didn't notice initially in the previous post which was good, but I don't know what's gotten in to you lately , you seemed like a nice person until yesterday.
Ok, ok. Whatever. It's just that I like to do my work, when I do it, down to the detail. I'm a perfectionist but I know not everyone is the same and that's okay. I'm sorry if I souded harsh, not my intention.

[Supercomputer]

Ok, ok. Whatever. It's just that I like to do my work, when I do it, down to the detail. I'm a perfectionist but I know not everyone is the same and that's okay. I'm sorry if I souded harsh, not my intention.

OK

[Ikiru]

I you were to ask me 3 and 28 are both #6 on the scale so they're light. 25 looks like even lighter. That's the problem with scales. Measuring is subjective from person to person lol.

I don't think this is subjective at all (we have a scale under our eyes) but some borderline cases like the ones you refered to are difficult to decide. Whether to treat them one way or the other wouldn't change the general figure of more than 2 or 3 points at most. On the first page of this thread I gave those examples as respectively a 7 and an 8, which you agreed on:
https://data.riksdagen.se/filarkiv/bilder/ledamot/1ee04f4d-e5a6-4aab-8461-f5baa7d2a2da_320.jpg
https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/Bilder_och_dokument/lars-pussjpg_716205.html/ALTERNATES/BASE_FACEBOOK/Lars%20P%C3%BCss.jpg
It seems quite clear to me that 5 is closer to the second example. I was indeed wrong about 25 though, who seems to have some kind of dark grey blue eyes on some pictures (88417). It's not hard for me to admit an error when I committed one.
40 out of 218: 18,3 %.

[Supercomputer]

I don't think this is subjective at all (we have a scale under our eyes) but some borderline cases like the ones you refered to are difficult to decide. Whether to treat them one way or the other wouldn't change the general figure of more than 2 or 3 points at most. On the first page of this thread I gave those examples as respectively a 7 and an 8, which you agreed on:
https://data.riksdagen.se/filarkiv/bilder/ledamot/1ee04f4d-e5a6-4aab-8461-f5baa7d2a2da_320.jpg
https://www.svensktnaringsliv.se/Bilder_och_dokument/lars-pussjpg_716205.html/ALTERNATES/BASE_FACEBOOK/Lars%20P%C3%BCss.jpg
It seems quite clear to me that 5 is closer to the second example. I was indeed wrong about 25 though, who seems to have some kind of dark grey blue eyes on some pictures (88417). It's not hard for me to admit an error when I committed one.
40 out of 218: 18,3 %.

If all pictures were the quality of the second one then there would be much less subjectivity, but unfortunately they're not. His eyes don't look exactly like number 8 because number 8 goes from orange to yellow to green with green being very small only at the edges while this guy's eyes are mostly green with very small dark spots. However number 8 still might be the best pick since that particular eye isn't represented anywhere else in the scale. IMO Martin Schultz scale is highly imperfect, it includes way too many indistinguishable blue eyes and not enough hazel shades. If one was forced to use the old Martin scale I would call his eyes an 8 rather than 7 and they would be light-mixed eyes.

[Μαρία]

12

[Bellbeaking]

12

agreed

[billErobreren]

This seems likely. I'm kinda curious to see an eastern variant to this, honestly. Like say, from Estonia to Ukraine or something but lighter eyes are more frequent in the eastern chunk of the European mainland so I don't know whether I'll be underwhelmed or slightly surprised :shrug:

[Ikiru]

If all pictures were the quality of the second one then there would be much less subjectivity, but unfortunately they're not. His eyes don't look exactly like number 8 because number 8 goes from orange to yellow to green with green being very small only at the edges while this guy's eyes are mostly green with very small dark spots. However number 8 still might be the best pick since that particular eye isn't represented anywhere else in the scale. IMO Martin Schultz scale is highly imperfect, it includes way too many indistinguishable blue eyes and not enough hazel shades. If one was forced to use the old Martin scale I would call his eyes an 8 rather than 7 and they would be light-mixed eyes.

Sure, I just try to apply the most strictly possible the 1-7 definition on the MS scale which a very common definition of light and light-mixed eyes in old studies as you know it already. It doesn't mean that I don't find some other scales more practical than that one. As long as the same criteria are used on all samples from European parliaments the purpose of this thread (comparairing countries and standardizing old studies) should be fulfilled.

[Nurzat]

since you're all offtopic, I'll ask what number is this xD thanks

https://scontent.fsbz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/61668572_2329787837086961_458969460905082880_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-1.fna&oh=ee05ca4248886f74bdd0412b77a4470e&oe=5D5B791A

[Supercomputer]

since you're all offtopic, I'll ask what number is this xD thanks

https://scontent.fsbz1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/61668572_2329787837086961_458969460905082880_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-1.fna&oh=ee05ca4248886f74bdd0412b77a4470e&oe=5D5B791A

hazel an 8 or a 10, one would have to see them in different lighting to be sure.

[Supercomputer]

My prediction of Ikiru numbers for Hungary ~35%, Croatia ~ 30%, Serbia ~20%

[Ikiru]

Hungarian MPs.
Pictures can be viewed there: https://www.parlament.hu/en/web/house-of-the-national-assembly/list-of-mps

I excluded 1 MP (Olivio Kocsis-Cake) for being non-ethnically Hungarian. I'm not sure about how to deal with German Hungarians so I let them in. One can give me names of other non-ethnically Hungarian MPs - independently of their eye color - and I'll update the results accordingly.
Among the remaining 198 parliamentarians:

95 have light and light-mixed eyes.
103 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 48 %.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This figure is higher than expected.

[Ikiru]

Croatian MPs.
Pictures can be viewed there: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/mandate-status

I didn't exclude any MP. I saw a few Italians but aren't those indigenous of Dalmatia? One can give me names of non-ethnically Croatian MPs who should be excluded - independently of their eye color - and I'll update the results accordingly.
Among the remaining 151 parliamentarians:

52 have light and light-mixed eyes.
99 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 34,4 %.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Croatian MPs.
Pictures can be viewed there: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/mandate-status

I didn't exclude any MP. I saw a few Italians but aren't those indigenous of Dalmatia? One can give me names of non-ethnically Croatian MPs who should be excluded - independently of their eye color - and I'll update the results accordingly.
Among the remaining 151 parliamentarians:

52 have light and light-mixed eyes.
99 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 34,4 %.
Do you plan on doing Ukraine or Poland anytime soon? A country like Switzerland or Belgium broken down into Flemish vs Walloon would be nice too.

[PaleoEuropean]

Interesting

[Supercomputer]

Hungarian MPs.
Pictures can be viewed there: https://www.parlament.hu/en/web/house-of-the-national-assembly/list-of-mps

I excluded 1 MP (Olivio Kocsis-Cake) for being non-ethnically Hungarian. I'm not sure about how to deal with German Hungarians so I let them in. One can give me names of other non-ethnically Hungarian MPs - independently of their eye color - and I'll update the results accordingly.
Among the remaining 198 parliamentarians:

95 have light and light-mixed eyes.
103 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 48 %.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This figure is higher than expected.

Interesting. Hungarians seem to be lighter than I expected. Do you have any approximate ideas how many additional eyes were mostly light with only small dark parts? For both Croatia and Hungary?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Croatian MPs.
Pictures can be viewed there: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/mandate-status

I didn't exclude any MP. I saw a few Italians but aren't those indigenous of Dalmatia? One can give me names of non-ethnically Croatian MPs who should be excluded - independently of their eye color - and I'll update the results accordingly.
Among the remaining 151 parliamentarians:

52 have light and light-mixed eyes.
99 have dark-mixed and dark eyes.

Thus the percentage of light and light-mixed eyes is 34,4 %.

You didn't exclude anyone and Croatian Parliament is one of few in Europe where official minorities representatives are. They are listed here: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/national-minorities-mps They are not only cases of non ethnic people, but that is probably the case everywhere in Europe.

So you counted ethnic Gypsy representative among Croats, wtf ?

https://www.mnovine.hr/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Veljko-Kajtazi.jpg

Is this statictics for ethnic Croats or for Croatia as country ?

There is no way Hungarians are that lighter, they should be few percent lighter and nothing more than that.

[Jana]

You didn't exclude anyone and Croatian Parliament is one of few in Europe where official minorities representatives are. They are listed here: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/national-minorities-mps They are not only cases of non ethnic people, but that is probably the case everywhere in Europe.

So you counted ethnic Gypsy representative among Croats, wtf ?

Is this statictics for ethnic Croats or for Croatia as country ?

There is no way Hungarians are that lighter, they should be few percent lighter and nothing more than that.

Don't be a drama queen! I found very similar light eyes ratio for Croatian Parliament :) Actually my light eyes ratio was few percent lower than what he found.
But I must add I did not include green eyes in light group, but in mixed.
What is interesting I also found very high hazel eyes ratio, that are included in dark but they are not brown eyes. I called them mixed.

Croatia is mostly mixed eyes country, hazel is most common eye colour, followed by similar percentage of light and brown eyes. This is what I found.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?209878-Croatian-Parliament-Government-eye-color-statistics


Parliament + Government Cabinet = 152 people (Croats only)

Mixed eyes = 40% (61 person)
Pure light eyes = 31 % (47 person)
Pure dark eyes = 29% (44 person)

What was counted in 3 separate cathegories ?

Mixed eyes = hazel + green (dark hazel eyes were the majority with pure green in minority)
Pure light eyes = blue + gray (pure blue eyes were majority with pure gray the minority)
Pure dark eyes = light brown + dark brown (pure light brown eyes were the majority with dark brown in minority)

[Supercomputer]

You didn't exclude anyone and Croatian Parliament is one of few in Europe where official minorities representatives are. They are listed here: https://www.sabor.hr/en/mps/national-minorities-mps They are not only cases of non ethnic people, but that is probably the case everywhere in Europe.

So you counted ethnic Gypsy representative among Croats, wtf ?

https://www.mnovine.hr/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Veljko-Kajtazi.jpg

Is this statictics for ethnic Croats or for Croatia as country ?

There is no way Hungarians are that lighter, they should be few percent lighter and nothing more than that.

Numbers for Croatia aren't that bad, dude, it's only 2% lower than Slovenia. Hungary is surprisingly high though, but it makes sense considering it's latitude is even northern than Slovenia and France. Ikiru has a rather strict definition hence lower numbers for all countries, at least from what i expected. If you tolerate small yellowish parts in mostly green eyes it goes up to 40% for Croatia.

[Supercomputer]

Ikiru's figure of 48% is also almost exactly what all non-yellowish eyes account in this study.

https://i.postimg.cc/HWJHJLqY/Hungary-eyes-detail.png

Hungary probably didn't receive much immigration from the south over the last century so the numbers haven't changed so much from what historic studies show.

[Supercomputer]

Austrian parliament, no distinction of ethnicity.

275 parliamentarians had images:

blue/gray-blue 117 or 42,5%
gray/light green 43 or 15,6%
mixed mostly light 27 or 9,8%
mixed mostly dark 47 or 17,1%
brown 41 or 14,1%

Lighter than I expected.

Overall 58,1% light eyes, 67,9% if you include mostly light ones.

[Tooting Carmen]

Good work. I find politicians are useful when looking at the phenotypes of populations too.

[Visage pâle]

Good work. I find politicians are useful when looking at the phenotypes of populations too.

Main problem is they are often older with grey hair.

[Bellbeaking]

Main problem is they are often older with grey hair.

older people have lighter eyes too

[Duffmannn]

older people have lighter eyes too

I think is the opposite. Most babies and children have light eyes, then It darkens. Pretty much the same as the hair.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think is the opposite. Most babies and children have light eyes, then It darkens. Pretty much the same as the hair.

What Bellbeaking was referring to was Visage Pale's claim that politicians are difficult to use as a guide to a population's pigmentation due to often being quite old, when their eye colour is the same as when they were younger.

[nafz]

I think is the opposite. Most babies and children have light eyes, then It darkens. Pretty much the same as the hair.

Eye color in babies can indeed darken but it stabilizes within the first year , maximum at 2 years old .

From then onwards eye color remains constant throughout adulthood.

In some cases eye color in the elderly can change but this is mostly due to diseases and if it happens it usually turns into a lighter hue/color.

"The outer surface of the eye (cornea) may develop a grayish-white ring. The colored portion of the eye (iris) loses pigment, making most very elderly people appear to have gray or light blue eyes."


https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/004004.htm

[Ikiru]

Eye color in babies can indeed darken but it stabilizes within the first year , maximum at 2 years old .

From then onwards eye color remains constant throughout adulthood.

In some cases eye color in the elderly can change but this is mostly due to diseases and if it happens it usually turns into a lighter hue/color.

"The outer surface of the eye (cornea) may develop a grayish-white ring. The colored portion of the eye (iris) loses pigment, making most very elderly people appear to have gray or light blue eyes."


https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/004004.htm

The color doesn't change from brown to blue among very old people, but yeah it often becomes greyish and sometimes it lightens a little bit. For example this is Lucie Randon, the current oldest Frenchwoman who is 115 and whose eyes are depigmented blue, a color rarely if ever found among younger people.

https://hanslucas.com/pict/zoom/444901.jpg

This doesn't prevent identification of the original eye color though, because dark eyes remain dark even when "grayished." For example this is Olympe Amaury, a former oldest Frenchwoman who was then 114.

https://cdn-media.rtl.fr/cache/QV-28O2u_6vRlkbwotN-uA/880v587-0/online/image/2015/0515/7778378072_olympe-amaury.jpg

[sofiagris]

Greetings, many members of the forum have been requesting for some time the results of a scientific study carried out in 1911 entitled "The useful Spanish man for the service of arms and for work. His anthropological characteristics at 20 years of age", carried out by Mr. Luis Sanchez Fernandez; medical deputy inspector of military health. In this study, the anthropological characteristics of more than one hundred thousand recruits are collected, including the color and tone of the skin, hair and eyes, in each of the fifty provinces of the Kingdom of Spain. I enclose this valuable information scanned from the book, to settle once and for all the reality of the pigmentation of the Spanish people.115529

[sofiagris]

115530

[Supercomputer]

115530

Thanks for the link. I've been looking for Sanches Fernandez study for a long time. Is this for hair colour, eye colour or both? Can you tell me which column is for eyes and which for hair?

[Lucas]

Thanks for the link. I've been looking for Sanches Fernandez study for a long time. Is this for hair colour, eye colour or both? Can you tell me which column is for eyes and which for hair?

I am interested in your opinion on it. For me looks unrealistic.

[Supercomputer]

I am interested in your opinion on it. For me looks unrealistic.

I made maps from it and will be posting them now. There is very weak correlation between eye colour and latitude and there isn't any correlation between hair colour and latitude which puts into question the whole study. However it could sill be correct.

[gixajo]

Thanks for the link. I've been looking for Sanches Fernandez study for a long time. Is this for hair colour, eye colour or both? Can you tell me which column is for eyes and which for hair?

You seem to be an expert on eyes colour, where would you place in the usual scale my eyes colour?

https://i.postimg.cc/6qrXc0SD/ojoconluz3.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Supercomputer]

You seem to be an expert on eyes colour, where would you place in the usual scale my eyes colour?

https://i.postimg.cc/6qrXc0SD/ojoconluz3.png (https://postimages.org/)

Evenly mixed or dark mixed.