Classify People from Cork in Ireland: Do they look Celtic? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 07:40 AM

I'd be interested in people's opinions on this. Cork is apparently one of the areas of Ireland that is least British genetics wise (although this is only by small margins). These are just some images from a first search so really the first images that have come up. Is there something distinctive about them? What other populations are they closest to in looks?

https://cdn-02.independent.ie/incoming/article37450122.ece/f3f89/AUTOCROP/w620/PV%20280818%20CorkMag%2050.jpg
https://blog.usac.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/students.jpg
http://www.westcorkpeople.ie/new/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Schull-CC-786x524.jpg
http://www.westcorkforoige.com/uploads/9/6/9/9/9699433/7945898_orig.jpg?223
https://landmark.bbvms.com/mediaclip/3229334/pthumbnail/576/325.jpg
http://www.westcorkpeople.ie/new/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Rossmore-Drama-Fest-pic.jpg
https://churchofirelandcork.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/1530441_563578810392243_1363186399_n.jpg
https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/academic/dramaamptheatrestudies/images/peoplepages/ucc-1026.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/3289/3002583149_f5f3794d93.jpg
https://liba.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Screen-Shot-2018-01-30-at-16.20.47.png
https://img.maximummedia.ie/her_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaW EtaGVyLm1heGltdW1tZWRpYS5pZS5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29t XFxcL3dwLWNvbnRlbnRcXFwvdXBsb2Fkc1xcXC8yMDE4XFxcLz EwXFxcLzEwMTE1OTQ4XFxcL1NjcmVlbi1TaG90LTIwMTgtMTAt MTAtYXQtMTEuNTkuMjIucG5nXCIsXCJ3aWR0aFwiOjc2NyxcIm hlaWdodFwiOjQzMSxcImRlZmF1bHRcIjpcImh0dHBzOlxcXC9c XFwvd3d3Lmhlci5pZVxcXC9hc3NldHNcXFwvaW1hZ2VzXFxcL2 hlclxcXC9uby1pbWFnZS5wbmc_aWQ9YjYzYjA3MWIxM2EwZDk0 ZWM2MTNcIixcIm9wdGlvbnNcIjpbXX0iLCJoYXNoIjoiYzllOT liNWViYTk0NzcyOTUyMTllNzZlOWRjMjhhYzIxMDY4YjYyZSJ9/screen-shot-2018-10-10-at-11-59-22.png
https://www.commonsinn.com/upload/slide_images/commons-inn_cork-city-2.jpg
https://beat102103.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ChristmasArrivalsCorkAirportDec18_large.jpg
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/images/news/diocesan/Cork/2019/Cork-CIYD-Forum-02.jpg
https://www.mwmlegal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Elaine-Keane_1.jpg
https://supervalu.ie/thumbnail/600x330/var/files/real-people/food-academy-programme/Suppliers/west-cork-brewing.jpg?fill=1
https://www.northcorkcreameries.com/images/uploads/people/Mary_2.JPG
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2034/5599/files/2-Samantha-Barry-Famous-Cork-People.jpg?v=1554620072
https://m0.her.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/13110058/rog-and-wife.jpg
https://www.eastcorkjournal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Pat-Buckley-SF-01.jpg

Blondie

05-31-2019, 07:43 AM

Keltic-nordid, Atlantid types, they look very celtic

Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 07:57 AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3088157.1495718716!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5YSSLUp8fk/maxresdefault.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/RA37XM/bantry-west-cork-ireland-1st-jan-2019-people-out-on-the-streets-of-bantry-tonight-celebrating-the-start-of-the-new-year-2019-credit-andy-gibsonalamy-live-news-RA37XM.jpg
https://cdn-01.independent.ie/incoming/article37539213.ece/315b7/AUTOCROP/w620/8turner.jpg
https://landmark.bbvms.com/mediaclip/2979910/pthumbnail/576/325.jpg
http://www.westcorkpeople.ie/new/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Beara-school-group-786x492.jpg
https://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/e/Exam140415GaryOFlynn_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-837633
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QvvF4k764ts/maxresdefault.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5uclQLX4AAZOEM.jpg
https://cdn.extra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/15170122/feat-cork-mum-1068x623.jpg
http://www.westcorkpeople.ie/new/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/JamesGale_Photo-786x590.jpg
https://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2019/04/john-caulfield-98-390x285.jpg
https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/2621300/original/?width=598&version=2621300
https://www.mslcorkmercedes-benz.ie/imglib/mslcork/dermot_ohara_sales_manager.jpg
http://www.westcorkpeople.ie/new/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Business-women-award-launch-pic-786x525.jpg
https://cdn.evoke.ie/2016/08/28060028/Screen-Shot-2016-08-28-at-06.05.01.jpg

That should be enough. How do they compare to other Europeans?

Creoda

05-31-2019, 08:49 AM

Do you detect any difference in looks between Irish regions Grace?

Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 10:32 AM

Do you detect any difference in looks between Irish regions Grace?

Yes there are some subtle differences. There seems to be more of the Keltic Nordid types in the more southern counties while the western areas have more rounded and softer features but that's just a generalisation. Also Dublin and surrounds is more pan Northwestern European looking.

Some pictures of Dublin people.

https://live.staticflickr.com/6049/6309615520_c4609337ce_b.jpg
http://s1.jrnl.ie/media/2012/11/readers-comments-5-390x285.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/6239/6309588154_11ebba3282_b.jpg
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/ce/70/7b/dublin-square-irish-pub.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_AVv9cWAU8M/maxresdefault.jpg
https://cdn-02.independent.ie/incoming/article38124719.ece/f35d4/AUTOCROP/w620/SN%20%20DSC_7960.jpg
https://businessandfinance.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Gourmet-Food-Parlour-main-670x310.jpg
http://www.dublinpeople.com/cache/9e866188e5fd111c7dab843af018891d.jpg
http://www.whatshewears.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/540x440_dublindoesfridays.jpg
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/ce/70/66/dublin-square-irish-pub.jpg
https://www.shemazing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/hoiddy-656x441.jpg
https://dvqlxo2m2q99q.cloudfront.net/000_clients/657152/file/657152DXBAxJFN.jpg
https://cdn-02.independent.ie/incoming/article37070501.ece/19145/AUTOCROP/w620/Dublin%20Pride%20038.jpg
http://www.whatshewears.ie/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/dublindoesfridays/amy-lyons-and-emma-forde-at-the-launch-of-dublin-does-fridays.jpg
https://cloud.lovindublin.com/images/uploads/2015/03/_featuredImage/teelings.png?mtime=20150310123425%20880w
https://img.maximummedia.ie/joe_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaW Etam9lLm1heGltdW1tZWRpYS5pZS5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29t XFxcL3dwLWNvbnRlbnRcXFwvdXBsb2Fkc1xcXC8yMDE1XFxcLz AyXFxcLzE4MjE1ODM3XFxcL0R1Ymxpbi1RdWVzdGlvbi5qcGdc IixcIndpZHRoXCI6NzY3LFwiaGVpZ2h0XCI6NDMxLFwiZGVmYX VsdFwiOlwiaHR0cHM6XFxcL1xcXC93d3cuam9lLmllXFxcL2Fz c2V0c1xcXC9pbWFnZXNcXFwvam9lXFxcL25vLWltYWdlLnBuZz 9pZD0yNjRhMmRiZTM3MGYyYzY3NWZjZFwiLFwib3B0aW9uc1wi OltdfSIsImhhc2giOiJlMmRiOWE3MTIzMzM5ZjQxMzJiZWFkM2 FiZTZjNGRmOGYxNzgzYjE0In0=/dublin-question.jpg
https://www.tcd.ie/equality/assets/images/Policy3.jpg

Had to throw in a picture of Jack Gleeson who attended Trinity College
http://c3.thejournal.ie/media/2012/04/Trinity-College-0251-390x285.jpg
http://www.studentsport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Trinity-Sport-1024x500.jpg
http://www.balbriggancommunitycollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/018-1024x683.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzXY7SiXgAAqxIu.jpg

Deneb

05-31-2019, 11:11 AM

I can't tell Irish people from British people. They look the same to my eyes.

Huckleberry

05-31-2019, 11:38 AM

Mostly Keltic Nordids and Atlantids

Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas

05-31-2019, 11:53 AM

Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the comments. What other countries would they fit in?

Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 12:17 PM

Some more pictures from Cork and that's it

https://www.ucc.ie/en/media/studyatucc/international/otherwebsiteimages/Sports.jpg
https://www.cubsucc.com/contentFiles/components/gdNews/31/large/1552051901664_DK15012019-WiSTEM2D-010-1024x683.jpg
https://www.cubsucc.com/contentFiles/components/GDImageGallery/288/large/18-30-7Q9A1417.jpg
https://www.cubsucc.com/contentFiles/components/GDImageGallery/288/large/18-30-7Q9A1019.jpg
https://www.cubsucc.com/contentFiles/components/GDImageGallery/288/large/18-30-7Q9A1179.jpg
http://blog.educationinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/670x300_IMG_5773.jpg
https://www.ucc.ie/en/news/archive/2014andbeyond/2010pressreleases/U21AllIre2010_Win_10_Web_2.jpg
https://d68b3152cf5d08c2f050-97c828cc9502c69ac5af7576c62d48d6.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.c om/includes/img/cms/site-images/resized/dd434e34290-kingston-university-71abdc359df-nursingstudentfromcorkfollowsfa.gif
http://greencampus.ucc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/biocafeucc.jpg
https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3047592.1492597156!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg
https://businesscorhttps://www.ucc.ie/en/media/support/quercus/quercusimages/Alan,AlanaandJennifer.pngk.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/unnamed-2-1.jpg
https://www.localenterprise.ie/SouthCork/News/Latest-News-Press-Releases/May-2015/March-2017/SE-General.jpg
https://liba.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/DK15012019-WiSTEM2D-071-1024x683.jpg
https://suneducationgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/UCC-NURSING-825x510.jpg
http://blogs.ucc.ie/wordpress/bees/files/2015/04/YEar-2-Graduation-725Tomas-Tyner-.jpg
https://www.uccconferencing.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Summer-Camp-20141.jpg

Grace O'Malley

05-31-2019, 12:27 PM

The "Celtic" designation is quite independent of genetic markers, I would say that Celts are associated with the R1b Atlantic subgroups instead:

Iberian - haplogroup R1b-DF27;
Alpine - haplogroup R1b-U152;
Brythonic or Anglo-Saxon/Frisian - haplogroup R1b-U106 ;
Gaelic-Atlantic - haplogroup R1b-L21.

But to answer your question, they do fit perfectly in what most people would consider present day and age Celts to look like. I can't think of any other ethnic group with such levels of light skin pigmentation, fair hair and red hair mutation and freckles.

A few of them also make me think of white North Americans - not only your other British Isles neighbours - which is indicative of the significant Irish genetic footprint left in the new continent.

Great comment. I just used Celtic because that's what most people associate with Irish i.e. the Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) vs Celtic and people always attribute Celtic to Irish. I personally don't subscribe to this and don't think Irish are the be all of Celts. :) I think Celts are an ancient people and that no one is wholly Celtic. I just use it here because people are entrenched with that sort of identity and description for "Insular Celts". It is very difficult to shake people out of it. :celtic::irishdancer:

Latinus

06-01-2019, 12:16 AM

I can't tell Irish people from British people. They look the same to my eyes.

Zroota

06-01-2019, 12:19 AM

Brunns, Keltic Nordids, Borrebies, North Atlantids

They all look pretty Celtic, yes.

Tooting Carmen

06-01-2019, 12:24 AM

Brunns, Keltic Nordids, Borrebies, North Atlantids

They all look pretty Celtic, yes.

This.

Joso

06-01-2019, 12:28 AM

Thanks for the comments. What other countries would they fit in?

How is the Celtic look

billErobreren

06-01-2019, 12:31 AM

D'awww:amour101: Love this

She don't know it yet but, she has my heart. What a cutie.

https://img.maximummedia.ie/her_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwOlxcXC9cXFwvbWVkaW EtaGVyLm1heGltdW1tZWRpYS5pZS5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29t XFxcL3dwLWNvbnRlbnRcXFwvdXBsb2Fkc1xcXC8yMDE4XFxcLz EwXFxcLzEwMTE1OTQ4XFxcL1NjcmVlbi1TaG90LTIwMTgtMTAt MTAtYXQtMTEuNTkuMjIucG5nXCIsXCJ3aWR0aFwiOjc2NyxcIm hlaWdodFwiOjQzMSxcImRlZmF1bHRcIjpcImh0dHBzOlxcXC9c XFwvd3d3Lmhlci5pZVxcXC9hc3NldHNcXFwvaW1hZ2VzXFxcL2 hlclxcXC9uby1pbWFnZS5wbmc_aWQ9YjYzYjA3MWIxM2EwZDk0 ZWM2MTNcIixcIm9wdGlvbnNcIjpbXX0iLCJoYXNoIjoiYzllOT liNWViYTk0NzcyOTUyMTllNzZlOWRjMjhhYzIxMDY4YjYyZSJ9/screen-shot-2018-10-10-at-11-59-22.png
Bit fairer than Donegal, faces are more squareish. Fuller cheeks. Folk just aren't as flaxen or rusty in the Northwest, I guess.

TheOldNorth

06-01-2019, 12:31 AM

well celtic people can be very varied in appearance. Mostly Atlantid, North-atlantid, Brunn, Celtic-nordid, and Paleo-atlantid

Elwy

06-01-2019, 12:36 AM

Generally KN but there are a variety of phenos featured.

TheMaestro

06-01-2019, 12:38 AM

Not the best looking bunch, my friend used to live in Cork, when he moved back to Slovakia, he said he felt like he is back in heaven.

Joso

06-01-2019, 12:42 AM

Bellbeaking

06-01-2019, 01:18 AM

If not with british, are they close to who

Bretons, Dutch, Norwegians, Icelandic, Faroese

Joso

06-01-2019, 01:19 AM

Bretons, Dutch, Norwegians, Icelandic, Faroese

But what makes them to be closer to these than to the British?

Jägerstaffel

06-01-2019, 01:20 AM

Bellbeaking

06-01-2019, 01:21 AM

But what makes them to be closer to these than to the British?

They are closest to British? Cork has less British admixture than other areas in Ireland. It's still closer to Britain than anywhere on the mainland

Daco Celtic

06-01-2019, 01:36 AM

Cork Irish. The best looking people in all of Ireland. All kidding aside, my mom's family is almost entirely from Munster (esp around Cork) and they do look similar to most of the people in the photos, a mix Atlantid, Borreby, Brunn, and Nordic for the most part.

Rgvgjhvv

06-01-2019, 02:39 AM

Kleenex thinks they look Greek

Bellbeaking

06-01-2019, 03:20 AM

Kleenex thinks they look Greek

whats this about?

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 05:04 AM

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 05:13 AM

Not the best looking bunch, my friend used to live in Cork, when he moved back to Slovakia, he said he felt like he is back in heaven.

Different strokes for different folks. I much prefer the Irish look. All these pictures are of ordinary people none of them are actors or models.

Daco Celtic

06-01-2019, 05:19 AM

Different strokes for different folks. I much prefer the Irish look. All these pictures are of ordinary people none of them are actors or models.

"Not the best looking bunch". Now dare they :p

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 05:22 AM

If not with british, are they close to who

That's what I'm asking. Genetically though these are the closest populations.

1 Irish:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 0.683
2 Irish:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 0.929
3 Irish:Average English_Averaged Averaged 1.122
5 Irish:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 1.334
6 Irish:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 1.39
8 Irish:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.399
11 Irish:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.589
15 Irish:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.659
26 Irish:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.818
154 Irish:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.701

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 05:24 AM

23andMe seems to think my Irish ancestry is largely from Cork. On paper my family is mostly Ulster Scot Presbyterians though. Strange.

Not that this contributes to the classification thread but, whatever.

23&Me is not accurate with their locations. Ancestry is accurate as they use IBD to match you and people's trees. They are very accurate with their GCs.

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 05:29 AM

"Not the best looking bunch". Now dare they :p

Not sure why people say that on here (Apricity in particular). A lot of Aussies look similar and people always say Aussies are good looking. I can't see the unattractiveness myself. I like the "Celtic" look. I prefer it over others but I have the same sort of looks. :)

Daco Celtic

06-01-2019, 05:31 AM

Not sure why people say that on here (Apricity in particular). A lot of Aussies look similar and people always say Aussies are good looking. I can't see the unattractiveness myself. I like the "Celtic" look. I prefer it over others but I have the same sort of looks. :)

Yeah, I like the redhead or light hair look with women. It's personal preference I guess.

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 06:16 AM

Here is a bit of information on the unique genetics of Corkonians (or the People's Republic of Cork) as the inhabitants call themselves. :) It is also known as the Rebel county. The great Michael Collins hails from there.

You can see in the plot here that Cork is part of the SMN (South Munster) cluster. They are mostly separate from the other Irish clusters barring the South Leinster/Munster cluster.

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152.g002

They aren't quite as distinctive as the Orkney or North Welsh (or even the South Welsh) cluster in a British Isles context.

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152.g004

In this diagram you see that Cork has the least British component of any Irish cluster.

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=medium&id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1007152.g001

I'll add more about this later and hopefully more people will comment.

Zroota

06-01-2019, 06:18 AM

Not sure why people say that on here (Apricity in particular). A lot of Aussies look similar and people always say Aussies are good looking. I can't see the unattractiveness myself. I like the "Celtic" look. I prefer it over others but I have the same sort of looks. :)
What's the difference between the Celtic and Germanic look?

Anyway, I thought the ladies in the photo collected looked pretty good on average.

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 06:23 AM

What's the difference between the Celtic and Germanic look?

Anyway, I thought the ladies in the photo collected looked pretty good on average.

Thank you. Sometimes I think this Irish/British bashing is a bit OTT. I'm not really sure myself. From being in this forum and others I think people associate blond with Germanic and dark (and red hair of course) with Celtic. I think also more softer features are associated with Celts. What do you think?

Daco Celtic

06-01-2019, 06:26 AM

Zroota

06-01-2019, 06:35 AM

Thank you. Sometimes I think this Irish/British bashing is a bit OTT. I'm not really sure myself. From being in this forum and others I think people associate blond with Germanic and dark (and red hair of course) with Celtic. I think also more softer features are associated with Celts. What do you think?
From what I gathered here Celtics are very fair skinned, but can have dark hair at the same time. Also, they tend to be more redheaded than Germans. Yes, comes to think of that, I would say that Germans are more robust featured, whereas the Irish are softer featured. When it comes to height, I think the Irish are shorter or they're about the same? I don't know, because Germany borders Netherlands, and they are the tallest Europeans I believe.

My two favourite Irish actors btw (Cillian Murphy and Elaine Cassidy):

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/f4/a3/eaf4a3f345126cac7d1d0e46fab72196.jpg

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 06:44 AM

From what I gathered here Celtics are very fair skinned, but can have dark hair at the same time. Also, they tend to be more redheaded than Germans. Yes, comes to think of that, I would say that Germans are more robust featured, whereas the Irish are softer featured. When it comes to height, I think the Irish are shorter or they're about the same? I don't know, because Germany borders Netherlands, and they are the tallest Europeans I believe.

My two favourite Irish actors btw (Cillian Murphy and Elaine Cassidy):

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/f4/a3/eaf4a3f345126cac7d1d0e46fab72196.jpg

Yes I love Cillian. I've never heard of Elaine though so will have to look her up. I sometimes think that people are too blinkered by stereotypes that they miss the wood for the trees. I think there are general trends but there is no hard and fast rule. I do think as a whole you can tell a lot of populations apart especially in group pictures because you can always tell by some of the more distinctive looks. Individuals however can sometimes be more difficult to place.

alnortedelsur

06-01-2019, 06:47 AM

Very good looking people. I can hardly distinguish Irish from other British Islanders. All of them have a very British Isles vibe, and most of them could pass as white Muricans.

TheMaestro

06-01-2019, 09:51 AM

Different strokes for different folks. I much prefer the Irish look. All these pictures are of ordinary people none of them are actors or models.

Well, the women in Slovakia are really pretty and most of them dress very very nice and none of them are models or actors, I am just saying that when he was in Cork most of teenager girls from his experience were really bad looking and they wore tracksuits? Was pretty surprised also :D

Creoda

06-01-2019, 09:58 AM

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 10:39 AM

Well, the women in Slovakia are really pretty and most of them dress very very nice and none of them are models or actors, I am just saying that when he was in Cork most of teenager girls from his experience were really bad looking and they wore tracksuits? Was pretty surprised also :D

I wouldn't say they dress in the best fashion in Cork but Dublin is more fashion conscious. Cork is just a very small country town by European standards. Here's a interview with some people from Cork. I don't think feature wise people are unattractive when compared to other Europeans. This isn't Paris or even Bratislava. :) I just find the constant ramblings about British & Irish being "ugly" a bit obsessive and odd. They aren't the worst looking people IMO. One thing I will say though is that British and Irish have one of the best senses of humour. The Irish have a great sense of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8SMNWTuaMo

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 10:51 AM

I would have to know first what the typical historical Celtic looks were, but I don't imagine them to be too similar to the big-headed, pale and redheaded phenotypes so characteristic of Ireland. No people(s) on the continent look much like that.

I don't think Irish have much Celtic dna if we are comparing them to known historical Celtic populations. They appear to be largely Bell Beaker but we need more Celtic genomes to really see. Irish don't appear to have much Halstatt for example but there are only two of them. Other European groups have much higher affinity to Halstatt than the Irish. Irish are too similar to other Northwest European populations so how much Celtic dna do they really have? The only way to answer this is with ancient genomes and I'm sure we will get an answer in the next 1 to 2 years.

billErobreren

06-01-2019, 11:45 AM

You can see the video here. She looks like Amy Adams IMO.

https://www.her.ie/life/sex-education-like-see-people-cork-say-429728

Heavenly, Something about that carrot orange mane is like cryptonite to me.
Amy Adams? Uh..maybe, but I don't really see it, thing is, Americans that have seen Amy in her earliest films know she's not a natural redhead. :lol: suits her though might be why she's kept it.

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 11:53 AM

Heavenly, Something about that carrot orange mane is like cryptonite to me.
Amy Adams? Uh..maybe, but I don't really see it, thing is, Americans that have seen Amy in her earliest films know she's not a natural redhead. :lol: suits her though might be why she's kept it.

I know Amy's a natural blonde but feature wise I think this girl and her are similar. I think red hair suits Amy better and also Nicole Kidman. A lot of women that dyed their hair red look really lovely although you need the fair skin and blue/green eyes for it to look best. Christina Hendricks looks gorgeous as a redhead.

billErobreren

06-01-2019, 12:01 PM

I know Amy's a natural blonde but feature wise I think this girl and her are similar. I think red hair suits Amy better and also Nicole Kidman. A lot of women that dyed their hair red look really lovely although you need the fair skin and blue/green eyes for it to look best. Christina Hendricks looks gorgeous as a redhead.

But Nicole was born a redhead wasn't she? I reckon her hair just lost its sheen a she came of age but you're right women with overly pasty skin like theirs have it best tailored with red hair. Deborah Ann Woll comes to mind also a natural blonde. She's got Irish in her as well, I think it shows.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a3/68/8b/a3688b22f1b270a782f71730532beb11.jpg

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 12:11 PM

But Nicole was born a redhead wasn't she? I reckon her hair just lost its sheen a she came of age but you're right women with overly pasty skin like theirs have it best tailored with red hair. Deborah Ann Woll comes to mind also a natural blonde. She's got Irish in her as well, I think it shows.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a3/68/8b/a3688b22f1b270a782f71730532beb11.jpg

Deborah Ann Woll is beautiful.

I think most people would say Nicole is a redhead. She's didn't have the real carrot type red hair though. Anyway red hair suits her much better than blond.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTgzNWY1MzItMGIwMy00NGU3LWIzMGYtZjVkNGUwOGYxMW IyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjUyNDk2ODc@._V1_.jpg
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3705931/vlcsnap-2013-12-11-07h33m25s247.jpg

billErobreren

06-01-2019, 12:45 PM

Deborah Ann Woll is beautiful.

I think most people would say Nicole is a redhead. She's didn't have the real carrot type red hair though. Anyway red hair suits her much better than blond.

Aw that's that cheesy bike flick, I think. Came out a bit before that Tina Turner Mad Max movie :laugh: It's odd to see her with such youthful rosey cheeks since she was pretty close to 30 when she became famous in her own right, here in the states. By then she was blonde and her hair blended in completely with her skin. Though some here remembered her in Dead Calm or My Life(That movie should've made her here but, ah well, it wasn't her character that was moribund).

Loads of people in America were looking to Australia in the 80's. Neighbours, Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max is what most will probably remember. I myself mostly got into the bands they were exporting The Birthday Party, The Triffids, The Go-Betweens, Nick Cave, etc. There's a character and uniqueness to people that are grown in those lands.

Either way, I've derailed plenty. Here's a notable personage from Cork: Fiona Shaw
http://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/S/15725-18673.jpg

Grace O'Malley

06-01-2019, 12:57 PM

Aw that's that cheesy bike flick, I think. Came out a bit before that Tina Turner Mad Max movie :laugh: It's odd to see her with such youthful rosey cheeks since she was pretty close to 30 when she became famous in her own right, here in the states. By then she was blonde and her hair blended in completely with her skin. Though some here remembered her in Dead Calm or My Life(That movie should've made her here but, ah well, it wasn't her character that was moribund).

Loads of people in America were looking to Australia in the 80's. Neighbours, Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max is what most will probably remember. I myself mostly got into the bands they were exporting The Birthday Party, The Triffids, The Go-Betweens, Nick Cave, etc. There's a character and uniqueness to people that are grown in those lands.

Either way, I've derailed plenty. Here's a notable personage from Cork: Fiona Shaw
http://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/S/15725-18673.jpg

I though it was Days of Thunder when Nicole made it big in the US and she got involved with Tom Cruise. I think she was approx 23 then.

Yes I think Aussies are pretty unique as well. If you were brought up here you would understand why. Very isolated from most of the world so hence Aussies are very outward looking. Australia's fauna and flora is very unique as well. Most Aussie's follow Australian Rules football which no one else does which brings me full circle back to the Irish who also follow their own code GAA football. :)

billErobreren

06-01-2019, 01:26 PM

I though it was Days of Thunder when Nicole made it big in the US and she got involved with Tom Cruise. I think she was approx 23 then.

Days of Thunder? 1990? Afraid not, she was but Tom's girl then, fresh, but yet to make a name for herself. It was 'To Die For' that did that for her that was '95, a film about Pamela Smart, I think. It was the 90's and people were obssessed with scandal and crimes of passion, they had made 2 films about Amy Fisher in the same year and then there was O.J Simpson, Loren Bobbitt, Tonya Harding, Phil Hartman, etc. I loathed that decade, it frankly amazed me that they waited over 20 years make a film about Harding, lo and behold they cast another Aussie(Margot Robbie) as the woman at the root of the scandal.

Yes I think Aussies are pretty unique as well. If you were brought up here you would understand why. Very isolated from most of the world so hence Aussies are very outward looking. Australia's fauna and flora is very unique as well. Most Aussie's follow Australian Rules football which no one else does which brings me full circle back to the Irish who also follow their own code GAA football.

Ah, We get accused of being insular ouselves. Fortress America, they call it. Danes get accused of being guarded and insular (It's a narrow peninsula with a cluster of islands, what's there to expect?); mate that with Irish and you've a match made in insular hell.:laugh: Australia's probably the most Irish of British colonies after us. Then again, their influence might be bigger there. What's at most; 40 million Irish descendants in a country of over 300 million? I reckon percentage wise you've got us beat.

Kivan

06-01-2019, 05:59 PM

The main phenotypes are Brünn, Borreby, Nordid(mainly Keltic plus some Cordeds and Hallstatts), Subnordid, Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon/Tronder types.

Many look like White Americans and Australians i have seen...

Nurzat

06-01-2019, 06:09 PM

does any pass in UK/Ireland/US as Anglo or Celtic in this college yearbook page (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?219421-university-class-classify-and-fit-pass)? thanks

Dick

06-01-2019, 06:32 PM

Every Canadian I know that has Irish ancestry tells me their ancestors were from Cork. One of my co worker’s parents were both from Cork but they were second generation. We used to hang out but we got into trouble too much. Hes a huge guy,probably almost 7 feet tall,had a hot temper and drank like a Russian. His personality was more Balkan like xD He ended up getting married with kids which surprised me lol

Bosniensis

06-01-2019, 06:56 PM

Dick

06-01-2019, 07:36 PM

Which western nation is the most similar to balkan people in general, through behavior and other things?

Canadians xD depends on who you perceive as "Balkan people". I am only kidding when I say that, it's a bullshit term anyway. What I mean is ex-Yugoslav mentality. Romanians, Greeks and Bulgarians that I've met are not like us at all. They are quiet reserved, northern slavs even worse than that. out of all the Balkan ethnicities I'd say Albanians are most similar to us. Canadians in general are out going, like to chat and joke around and party.

Moje ime

06-01-2019, 07:56 PM

Canadians xD depends on who you perceive as "Balkan people". I am only kidding when I say that, it's a bullshit term anyway. What I mean is ex-Yugoslav mentality. Romanians, Greeks and Bulgarians that I've met are not like us at all. They are quiet reserved, northern slavs even worse than that. out of all the Balkan ethnicities I'd say Albanians are most similar to us. Canadians in general are out going, like to chat and joke around and party.

I don't believe Greeks are reserved. Maybe you just meet that kind.

Percivalle

06-01-2019, 07:56 PM

Thanks for the comments. What other countries would they fit in?

All the British Isles. Of course individually many could pass in many places of Europe.

However very nice people. I had a great time in Cork.

Jägerstaffel

06-01-2019, 08:32 PM

Different strokes for different folks. I much prefer the Irish look. All these pictures are of ordinary people none of them are actors or models.

Not bad looking at all, to me.. Just average people.

Tommie

06-01-2019, 09:56 PM

The Irish look just like other British Islanders to me, except they have somewhat higher frequency of Borrebies. Very friendly-looking bunch.

Grace O'Malley

06-02-2019, 05:28 AM

These are some Gedmatch results from some people from Cork.

Some Cork results

K23b

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.36
2 European_Early_Farmers 29.30
3 Caucasian 20.16
4 Ancestral_Altaic 6.24
5 South_Central_Asian 5.05

Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Frisian @ 2.712163
2 Belgian @ 2.890908
3 English @ 2.960257
4 English_Kent_GBR @ 3.009872
5 North_European @ 3.151103
6 CEU @ 3.254671
7 Irish @ 3.308903
8 British @ 3.331148
9 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 3.801598
10 Welsh @ 4.500778
11 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 5.025991
12 Orcadian @ 5.369807
13 Dutch @ 5.740319
14 Norwegian_West @ 6.032233
15 Icelandic @ 6.656388
16 Norwegian_East @ 6.785361
17 South_German @ 7.007252
18 German-Volga @ 7.664892
19 Dane @ 8.826374
20 Swede @ 9.179934

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% British +50% Frisian @ 1.690914

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Cornwall_GBR +25% Frisian +25% Swede @ 1.547452

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.479698
2 Belgian + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.483028
3 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Swede @ 1.547452
4 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.589268
5 Belgian + Belgian + Frisian + Orcadian @ 1.596017
6 Belgian + Frisian + Frisian + Orcadian @ 1.597188
7 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_East @ 1.613137
8 Belgian + British + British + Frisian @ 1.633905
9 Dane + English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian @ 1.636155
10 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_East @ 1.646711
11 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.646925
12 English_Kent_GBR + Frisian + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.649837
13 Belgian + English_Cornwall_GBR + Irish + Norwegian_West @ 1.650611
14 English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + Swede @ 1.653155
15 English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Irish + Norwegian_West @ 1.656230
16 English_Kent_GBR + Frisian + Irish + Norwegian_West @ 1.678771
17 Dane + English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Cornwall_GBR + English_Kent_GBR @ 1.680028
18 British + British + Frisian + Frisian @ 1.690914
19 Belgian + British + British + Dutch @ 1.691165
20 English_Kent_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + Frisian + Norwegian_West @ 1.693484

K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.72
2 Baltic 23.99
3 West_Med 12.43
4 West_Asian 5.96
5 South_Asian 2.03
6 Red_Sea 1.30

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 1.642778
2 West_Scottish @ 1.988671
3 Orcadian @ 3.328878
4 Southwest_English @ 4.491655
5 North_Dutch @ 4.854113
6 Danish @ 5.488039
7 Southeast_English @ 5.937715
8 Norwegian @ 6.012997
9 North_German @ 7.988338
10 Swedish @ 9.145889
11 South_Dutch @ 11.465676
12 West_German @ 13.014734
13 North_Swedish @ 16.320787
14 French @ 17.285484
15 Austrian @ 18.587210
16 East_German @ 18.593773
17 Hungarian @ 23.980904
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 24.944302
19 Southwest_French @ 25.321007
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 25.600901

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 1.642778

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% West_Scottish @ 1.590172

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 1.590172
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 1.642778
3 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.645742
4 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.770046
5 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 1.931168
6 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 1.940221
7 Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.977840
8 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.988671
9 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.037018
10 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.070204
11 Orcadian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.132371
12 Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.156899
13 Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.162383
14 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 2.184382
15 North_Dutch + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.188280
16 Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.190973
17 Norwegian + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.196676
18 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_Scottish @ 2.213294
19 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.215059
20 Irish + Norwegian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.216543

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 35.84
2 Atlantic 31.59
3 Baltic 10.20
4 Eastern_Euro 9.55
5 West_Med 7.15
6 West_Asian 3.73
7 South_Asian 1.10

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.469878
2 West_Scottish @ 2.496537
3 Southeast_English @ 3.741071
4 Danish @ 4.910188
5 Orcadian @ 5.158907
6 Southwest_English @ 5.465241
7 North_Dutch @ 5.575886
8 North_German @ 6.699359
9 South_Dutch @ 9.884022
10 Norwegian @ 9.914850
11 West_Norwegian @ 10.389792
12 Swedish @ 11.435867
13 West_German @ 12.615411
14 North_Swedish @ 14.121640
15 French @ 14.994376
16 East_German @ 16.700020
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 18.822027
18 Austrian @ 21.083599
19 Hungarian @ 22.590927
20 Finnish @ 22.906395

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% West_Scottish @ 2.366521

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% West_Scottish +25% West_Scottish @ 2.366521

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.366521
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.379258
3 Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.403919
4 Irish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.449092
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.469878
6 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 2.479265
7 West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.496537
8 Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.497830
9 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southeast_English @ 2.570367
10 Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.587943
11 Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.606356
12 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.638246
13 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.694942
14 Danish + Irish + Irish + West_Scottish @ 2.704943
15 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.719715
16 Irish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.724717
17 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.735258
18 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.740421
19 Danish + Irish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.744332
20 North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.745911

I'll put in another couple of results from Cork.

K23b

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 36.01
2 European_Early_Farmers 31.47
3 Caucasian 20.96
4 Ancestral_Altaic 4.30
5 South_Central_Asian 3.68
6 Arctic 1.75
7 North_African 1.16

Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 English_Kent_GBR @ 2.696868
2 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 4.000521
3 Belgian @ 4.199640
4 CEU @ 4.326985
5 Welsh @ 4.368445
6 British @ 4.401424
7 English @ 4.555428
8 North_European @ 4.739586
9 Frisian @ 4.911830
10 Irish @ 5.392266
11 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 6.938089
12 Orcadian @ 6.961148
13 South_German @ 7.372437
14 Dutch @ 8.247351
15 German-Volga @ 8.266337
16 French @ 8.344507
17 Norwegian_West @ 8.529987
18 Norwegian_East @ 9.195309
19 Icelandic @ 9.361221
20 North_German @ 11.292843

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% English_Kent_GBR +50% English_Kent_GBR @ 2.696868

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French +25% Frisian +25% Swede @ 2.292873

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French_South + Norwegian_West + Serb_Serbia + Swede @ 2.233715
2 French_South + Frisian + Hungarian + Swede @ 2.244733
3 French + French + Frisian + Swede @ 2.292873
4 Belgian + French + French + Swede @ 2.296066
5 French_South + Frisian + Slovenian + Swede @ 2.308895
6 Belarusian-East + English_Kent_GBR + English_Kent_GBR + French_South @ 2.314924
7 Belgian + French_South + Hungarian + Swede @ 2.331479
8 Basque_French + Belarusian_Russian + English_Cornwall_GBR + Serb_Serbia @ 2.354125
9 Belgian + Frisian + Spanish_Cataluna_IBS + Swede @ 2.355876
10 Basque_French + English_Cornwall_GBR + Mixed_East_Slav + Serb_Serbia @ 2.358431
11 Belgian + English_Kent_GBR + French_South + Kashub @ 2.366778
12 Belarusian_Russian + English_Cornwall_GBR + French + French_South @ 2.368109
13 English_Kent_GBR + French_South + Hungarian + Swede @ 2.368423
14 Belgian + French_South + Slovenian + Swede @ 2.371744
15 English_Cornwall_GBR + French + French_South + Mixed_East_Slav @ 2.375023
16 Croat_BH + Dutch + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS + Swede @ 2.382898
17 British + Croat_BH + French_South + Swede @ 2.389578
18 Frisian + North_German + Spanish_Valencia_IBS + Swede @ 2.392694
19 French_South + Norwegian_East + Serb_Serbia + Swede @ 2.397422
20 Dane + Serb_BH + Spanish_Pais_Vasco_IBS + Swede @ 2.397700

K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 52.95
2 Baltic 22.24
3 West_Med 13.04
4 East_Med 7.29
5 West_Asian 2.33

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 4.334431
2 Southwest_English @ 5.937294
3 Orcadian @ 6.217885
4 West_Scottish @ 6.713122
5 Irish @ 7.528454
6 North_Dutch @ 7.692681
7 Danish @ 7.887337
8 South_Dutch @ 9.689912
9 Norwegian @ 9.784926
10 North_German @ 10.103143
11 West_German @ 11.085826
12 Swedish @ 12.529757
13 French @ 14.018579
14 Austrian @ 18.346771
15 North_Swedish @ 18.631050
16 East_German @ 19.050262
17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 20.896809
18 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 22.118517
19 Southwest_French @ 22.362659
20 Spanish_Cantabria @ 22.770153

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +50% Southeast_English @ 4.334431

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English @ 4.334431

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.334431
2 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 4.549094
3 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 4.584296
4 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.633922
5 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.879750
6 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 4.900623
7 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 4.910234
8 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.910510
9 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 4.927164
10 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 4.930422
11 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.050243
12 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 5.063186
13 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 5.073632
14 North_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 5.091527
15 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 5.112062
16 Norwegian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 5.184359
17 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 5.193879
18 South_Dutch + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.241571
19 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 5.288595
20 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 5.288854

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 35.86
2 Atlantic 31.36
3 Eastern_Euro 9.94
4 Baltic 9.36
5 West_Med 8.69
6 East_Med 2.80
7 West_Asian 1.17

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 3.267118
2 West_Scottish @ 4.017451
3 Irish @ 4.287349
4 Southwest_English @ 4.854655
5 Danish @ 5.729698
6 Orcadian @ 6.162954
7 North_Dutch @ 6.570034
8 North_German @ 7.992765
9 South_Dutch @ 9.080094
10 Norwegian @ 10.335841
11 West_Norwegian @ 10.770837
12 West_German @ 11.564934
13 Swedish @ 12.081535
14 French @ 13.544823
15 North_Swedish @ 14.540841
16 East_German @ 16.894169
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.320824
18 Austrian @ 20.924156
19 Spanish_Cataluna @ 21.057505
20 Spanish_Galicia @ 21.890539

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +50% Southeast_English @ 3.267118

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Southeast_English +25% Southeast_English +25% West_Scottish @ 3.176076

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 3.176076
2 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.267118
3 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.282490
4 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.327055
5 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.345634
6 Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.359949
7 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 3.385404
8 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.472803
9 Irish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.476444
10 Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.496106
11 Danish + French_Basque + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.513366
12 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.526136
13 Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.538914
14 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + West_Scottish @ 3.546386
15 Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.556933
16 Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.559417
17 Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southeast_English @ 3.566815
18 Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 3.579169
19 Danish + Southeast_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 3.609879
20 Danish + Southeast_English + Southeast_English + Southwest_English @ 3.620376

Another Cork result.

K23b

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 36.49
2 European_Early_Farmers 27.81
3 Caucasian 20.32
4 South_Central_Asian 7.95
5 Ancestral_Altaic 6.55

Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.186293
2 Frisian @ 3.156662
3 English @ 3.443540
4 North_European @ 4.366897
5 CEU @ 4.496523
6 Belgian @ 4.512044
7 English_Cornwall_GBR @ 4.735413
8 British @ 4.779322
9 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 4.852979
10 Dutch @ 5.007510
11 English_Kent_GBR @ 5.102254
12 Welsh @ 5.342098
13 Orcadian @ 5.889867
14 Icelandic @ 7.101479
15 German-Volga @ 7.168072
16 South_German @ 7.444304
17 Norwegian_West @ 7.449203
18 Norwegian_East @ 7.646094
19 Dane @ 9.191885
20 North_German @ 9.707798

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 2.186293

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Frisian +25% Irish +25% Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.122336

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.017448
2 Frisian + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.038620
3 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.057237
4 Dutch + English_Cornwall_GBR + Irish + Irish @ 2.085802
5 Dutch + Frisian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.101911
6 Frisian + Frisian + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.122336
7 British + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 2.132835
8 Irish + Irish + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.141933
9 Dutch + Frisian + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.161861
10 Dutch + English_Cornwall_GBR + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.184257
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.186293
12 Frisian + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.194462
13 Frisian + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.206742
14 Frisian + German-Volga + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.233498
15 Dutch + English_Cornwall_GBR + Frisian + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.252891
16 Irish + Irish + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.258633
17 Dutch + Irish + Irish + Welsh @ 2.270968
18 German-Volga + Irish + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR + Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR @ 2.287090
19 CEU + Dutch + Irish + Irish @ 2.290220
20 Frisian + Frisian + Irish + Orcadian @ 2.290316

K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 49.96
2 Baltic 24.63
3 West_Med 13.37
4 West_Asian 7.32
5 South_Asian 2.09

Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Irish @ 2.972236
2 Orcadian @ 3.597314
3 West_Scottish @ 4.256853
4 North_Dutch @ 4.289424
5 Danish @ 4.786686
6 Southwest_English @ 4.983876
7 Southeast_English @ 5.457709
8 Norwegian @ 6.013305
9 North_German @ 6.013931
10 Swedish @ 8.288151
11 South_Dutch @ 9.278803
12 West_German @ 10.646190
13 North_Swedish @ 15.240487
14 French @ 15.573842
15 Austrian @ 15.730251
16 East_German @ 15.802526
17 Hungarian @ 21.172731
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 23.547382
19 Southwest_French @ 24.039413
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 24.136953

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +50% Irish @ 2.972236

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Irish +25% Irish +25% North_German @ 2.493025

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_German @ 2.493025
2 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southwest_English @ 2.521679
3 Irish + Irish + North_German + Orcadian @ 2.689558
4 Irish + Irish + North_German + West_Scottish @ 2.705775
5 Irish + Irish + Irish + South_Dutch @ 2.734790
6 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.764394
7 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 2.772144
8 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + South_Dutch @ 2.809623
9 Irish + Irish + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.849193
10 Danish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.874698
11 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_German @ 2.886300
12 Irish + North_German + Orcadian + West_Scottish @ 2.893111
13 Irish + North_German + Southwest_English + Southwest_English @ 2.894495
14 Irish + North_Dutch + North_German + Southwest_English @ 2.914659
15 Irish + Irish + Irish + North_Dutch @ 2.918319
16 Irish + Irish + North_German + Southeast_English @ 2.925030
17 Danish + Irish + Irish + Southwest_English @ 2.936778
18 Irish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 2.943842
19 Irish + North_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.949277
20 Irish + Irish + Irish + Irish @ 2.972236

K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 39.27
2 Atlantic 26.71
3 Baltic 11.19
4 West_Med 8.68
5 Eastern_Euro 6.84
6 West_Asian 4.81
7 South_Asian 1.66

Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 4.242445
2 North_Dutch @ 4.308875
3 West_Scottish @ 5.699649
4 Irish @ 5.791740
5 Southwest_English @ 6.121759
6 Danish @ 6.130460
7 Southeast_English @ 6.137082
8 West_Norwegian @ 6.936790
9 Norwegian @ 7.101579
10 North_German @ 8.208179
11 Swedish @ 8.531548
12 West_German @ 10.055604
13 South_Dutch @ 11.060172
14 North_Swedish @ 13.190704
15 French @ 15.161172
16 East_German @ 16.907038
17 Southwest_Finnish @ 19.790243
18 Hungarian @ 22.039209
19 Austrian @ 22.555269
20 Finnish @ 22.938673

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% North_Dutch +50% Orcadian @ 3.471436

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Orcadian +25% Southwest_English +25% Swedish @ 3.218682

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 3.218682
2 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.338895
3 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.381127
4 Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.395511
5 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.471436
6 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.491918
7 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.522629
8 North_Dutch + Norwegian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.556038
9 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Norwegian @ 3.563239
10 Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.574475
11 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 3.575934
12 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Swedish @ 3.585858
13 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.597483
14 North_Dutch + Norwegian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 3.601899
15 Orcadian + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Swedish @ 3.614343
16 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.617440
17 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian + Southwest_English @ 3.618165
18 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_German @ 3.634942
19 North_Dutch + Orcadian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 3.639744
20 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 3.650873

Just thought these might be of interest to some people especially Daco-Celtic :).

Daco Celtic

06-02-2019, 05:54 AM

These are some Gedmatch results from some people from Cork.

Some Cork results

Just thought these might be of interest to some people especially Daco-Celtic :).

Thanks for posting this! I was wondering if anything differs greatly from Irish in general with these results? Anything jump out?

Grace O'Malley

06-02-2019, 09:26 AM

Thanks for posting this! I was wondering if anything differs greatly from Irish in general with these results? Anything jump out?

On the samples I've seen no there are not great differences. I'd say you would need a large sample to really see a trend. Irish are really very close to Britain and especially Scots. Scots are the closest population to Irish. Just looking at my family history I have a couple of Highland names in my paternal family tree so it is not surprising that I come out closest to Orkney in a lot of Gedmatch calculators. This seems to be a trend in a lot of Irish as well. I'll add more genetics about Cork later.

Grace O'Malley

06-07-2019, 05:07 AM

Just adding some more genetic information because anthropology and genetics are tied and you can't discuss one without the other.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQh7ssUWAAI1iQ2.jpg

The above diagram is interesting because it shows Orkney clustered with the Irish.

The majority of our Irish individuals are placed in clusters grouped on one branch, which itself is grouped with the Orcadian branch. This combined branch forms an out group to the remaining fineStructure clusters (Fig. 1). The clusters found on the Irish branch are geographically stratified and we assigned labels to reflect this. To avoid confusion, a fineStructure cluster is referred to in italics (e.g. Ulster), distinct from the geographic region (i.e. the province of Ulster). Within the ‘Irish’ branch we observe three broad groups of clusters, which are indicated by the colour of the cluster’s label in the dendrogram shown in Fig. 1 cluster name colour in Fig. 1. The clusters describe; the north of Ireland (Ulster), the centre of Ireland (Connacht, Dublin, C Ireland, and Leinster), and the south of Ireland (N Munster and S Munster). The distribution of these Irish clusters follows both geographic and political borders within Ireland; particularly the boundaries of the four Irish provinces (see Fig. 1). The two clusters, N Munster and S Munster, follow the boundaries of Munster. The same can be said of the Connacht cluster for Connacht, and the Ulster cluster for Ulster. The centre of Ireland branch is predominantly found within the boundaries of the modern Irish province of Leinster, with the exception of the C Ireland cluster, which is also found within the north of Munster and the south of Connacht. In particular Leinster is found within the boundaries of the Leinster province and historical kingdom28. Finally, Dublin is mainly centred on the county of Dublin (with some members in the north in Ulster).

To further compare the genetic distances between the observed Irish and British clusters, we performed Fst analysis, computing the Fst value between Irish and British fineStructure clusters (see Supplementary Table 2). As expected, and consistent with the fineStructure analyses and previous estimates18,21, genetic differentiation across Ireland and Britain is subtle, with the greatest genetic distances between Orcadian and non-Orcadian clusters (mean Fst = 0.0032). Ulster appears to be an outlier relative to the other ‘Gaelic’ Irish clusters, consistent with its position in PCA (Supplementary Fig. 2). The Gaelic clusters exhibit fine differentiation between each other (average Fst = 0.00030; average Fst excluding outlier Ulster = 0.00024) which is comparable to the differentiation we see between English clusters (average Fst = 0.00031; average Fst excluding outlier Cornwall I = 0.00024). This level of differentiation is finer than what we observe within Wales (average Fst = 0.00138), or Scotland (average Fst = 0.00250). The level of differentiation we observe in the island of Ireland (Fst = 0.0003), Gaelic and N Ireland clusters included, is almost an order of magnitude smaller than what we observe within clusters found across Great Britain, excluding Orkney (Fst = 0.00135).

So yes all of Ireland is very similar including Northern Ireland. The clusters in Ireland are closer than the clusters in Great Britain (excluding Orkney).

Petalpusher

06-07-2019, 05:54 AM

To me the Irish look like a boosted/extreme version of what makes English look somewhat distinct from other NW Euros. If that makes any sense, still hard sometimes to distinguish them.

Grace O'Malley

06-07-2019, 06:15 AM

To me the Irish look like a boosted/extreme version of what makes English look somewhat distinct from other NW Euros. If that makes any sense, still hard sometimes to distinguish them.

They are more original Bell Beaker with less mixing and more isolated although there has always been some smaller admixture happening but just geography alone can explain some of this. People that came to Ireland all had to come via the sea and it is an island off another island so it has preserved more genetics from the Bronze Age.

Saying that though it hasn't been as isolated as some populations as the Irish share more recent ancestry with other Europeans than a lot of other populations. In fact more than France which is not what I would have thought.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/figure/image?size=inline&id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555.t001
Table 1. Populations, abbreviations, sample sizes (n), mean number of IBD blocks shared by a pair of individuals from that population (“self”), and mean IBD rate averaged across all other populations (“other”), sorted by regional groupings described in the text.

https://file1.science-et-vie.com/var/scienceetvie/storage/images/article/la-plupart-des-europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents-4771/17034-1-fre-FR/La-plupart-des-Europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents_exact1024x768_l.png

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

Dick

06-07-2019, 06:24 AM

They are more original Bell Beaker with less mixing and more isolated although there has always been some smaller admixture happening but just geography alone can explain some of this. People that came to Ireland all had to come via the sea and it is an island off another island so it has preserved more genetics from the Bronze Age.

Saying that though it hasn't been as isolated as some populations as the Irish share more recent ancestry with other Europeans than a lot of other populations. In fact more than France which is not what I would have thought.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/figure/image?size=inline&id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555.t001
Table 1. Populations, abbreviations, sample sizes (n), mean number of IBD blocks shared by a pair of individuals from that population (“self”), and mean IBD rate averaged across all other populations (“other”), sorted by regional groupings described in the text.

https://file1.science-et-vie.com/var/scienceetvie/storage/images/article/la-plupart-des-europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents-4771/17034-1-fre-FR/La-plupart-des-Europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents_exact1024x768_l.png

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

What about inbreeding since populations living on islands are isolated? serious question.

Grace O'Malley

06-07-2019, 06:48 AM

What about inbreeding since populations living on islands are isolated? serious question.

Doesn't appear to be necessarily the case. Eastern Europeans share more genes with each other. Look at the Self column. Albania is the highest then Kosovo and Russia is double what the Irish share with each other.

Some interesting paragraphs from that study.

By far the highest rates of IBD within any populations is found between Albanian speakers—around 90 ancestors from 0–500 ya, and around 600 ancestors from 500–1,500 ya (so high that we left them out of Figure 5; see Figure S12). Beyond 1,500 ya, the rates of IBD drop to levels typical for other populations in the eastern grouping.

There are clear differences in the number and timing of genetic common ancestors shared by individuals from different parts of Europe, These differences reflect the impact of major historical and demographic events, superimposed against a background of local migration and generally high genealogical relatedness across Europe. We now turn to discuss possible causes and implications of these results.

Genetic common ancestry within the last 2,500 years across Europe has been shaped by diverse demographic and historical events. There are both continental trends, such as a decrease of shared ancestry with distance; regional patterns, such as higher IBD in eastern and northern populations; and diverse outlying signals. We have furthermore quantified numbers of genetic common ancestors that populations share with each other back through time, albeit with a (unavoidably) coarse temporal resolution. These numbers are intriguing not only because of the differences between populations, which reflect historical events, but the high degree of implied genealogical commonality between even geographically distant populations

One of the striking patterns we see is the relatively high level of sharing of IBD between pairs of individuals across eastern Europe, as high or higher than that observed within other, much smaller populations. This is consistent with these individuals having a comparatively large proportion of ancestry drawn from a relatively small population that expanded over a large geographic area. The “smooth” estimates of Figure 4 (and more generally Figures 5 and S17) suggest that this increase in ancestry stems from around 1,000–2,000 ya, since during this time pairs of eastern individuals are expected to share a substantial number of common ancestors, while this is only true of pairs of noneastern individuals if they are from the same population. For example, even individuals from widely separated eastern populations share about the same amount of IBD as do two Irish individuals (see Figure S3), suggesting that this ancestral population may have been relatively small.

Petalpusher

06-07-2019, 06:54 AM

They are more original Bell Beaker with less mixing and more isolated although there has always been some smaller admixture happening but just geography alone can explain some of this. People that came to Ireland all had to come via the sea and it is an island off another island so it has preserved more genetics from the Bronze Age.

Saying that though it hasn't been as isolated as some populations as the Irish share more recent ancestry with other Europeans than a lot of other populations. In fact more than France which is not what I would have thought.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/figure/image?size=inline&id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555.t001
Table 1. Populations, abbreviations, sample sizes (n), mean number of IBD blocks shared by a pair of individuals from that population (“self”), and mean IBD rate averaged across all other populations (“other”), sorted by regional groupings described in the text.

https://file1.science-et-vie.com/var/scienceetvie/storage/images/article/la-plupart-des-europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents-4771/17034-1-fre-FR/La-plupart-des-Europeens-partagent-des-ancetres-recents_exact1024x768_l.png

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001555

Yes very possible Irish are more like the original IE who came to the isles.

All the immigration in France is very recent, as one historian once jokingly said on TV (they didn't expect that..), "in the last 1000 years, immigration in France all consisted of Mazarin's nieces". I think it might alsobe related to countries with historical strong empires, likewise Italy shares little with other nations as well.

Grace O'Malley

06-07-2019, 07:00 AM

Yes very possible Irish are more like the original IE who came to the isles.

All the immigration in France is very recent, as one historian once jokingly said on TV (they didn't expect that..), "in the last 1000 years, immigration in France all consisted of Mazarin's nieces". I think it might alsobe related to countries with historical strong empires, likewise Italy shares little with other nations as well.

Yes there might be some truth in that. This following paragraph is interesting.

Italy, Iberia, and France.
On the other hand, we find that France and the Italian and Iberian peninsulas have the lowest rates of genetic common ancestry in the last 1,500 years (other than Turkey and Cyprus), and are the regions of continental Europe thought to have been least affected by the Slavic and Hunnic migrations. These regions were, however, moved into by Germanic tribes (e.g., the Goths, Ostrogoths, and Vandals), which suggests that perhaps the Germanic migrations/invasions of these regions entailed a smaller degree of population replacement than the Slavic and/or Hunnic, or perhaps that the Germanic groups were less genealogically cohesive. This is consistent with the argument that the Slavs moved into relatively depopulated areas, while Gothic “migrations” may have been takeovers by small groups of extant populations [54],[55].

Bigsaul

06-07-2019, 07:03 AM

They look like as if all had the same dad or mommy with almost no variation other than hair color

Grace O'Malley

06-07-2019, 07:07 AM

They look like as if all had the same dad or mommy with almost no variation other than hair color

No more than other populations and despite what people's perceptions are they aren't particularly inbred either. See the paragraphs above.

Daco Celtic

06-17-2019, 04:25 AM

No more than other populations and despite what people's perceptions are they aren't particularly inbred either. See the paragraphs above.

My 5th Great Grandfather is old school County Cork. Glad to hear they aren't so inbred. :) I wonder if the first name is really supposed to be "Caln". I just came across his name today when using AncestryDNA ThruLines
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHQNhWM/Clan1.jpg

Grace O'Malley

06-18-2019, 11:51 AM

My 5th Great Grandfather is old school County Cork. Glad to hear they aren't so inbred. :) I wonder if the first name is really supposed to be "Caln". I just came across his name today when using AncestryDNA ThruLines
https://i.postimg.cc/rpHQNhWM/Clan1.jpg

I've never heard of a surname Clan. :) Your Clan would be your tribe etc. Some of the old records have misspellings and also Latinise names.

Daco Celtic

09-11-2020, 11:05 PM

This dude from the 13th pic in the OP is the most Cork looking dude ever

https://i.imgur.com/e8otY87.jpg

aherne

12-25-2020, 07:53 PM

Germanic influence is far from insignificant (two textbook Germanic guys):

https://www.commonsinn.com/upload/slide_images/commons-inn_cork-city-2.jpg

This looks more like English rather than Scandinavian...

Norb

12-25-2020, 08:02 PM

Luso

12-25-2020, 08:51 PM

The Irish are beautiful people :thumb001:

aherne

12-27-2020, 05:31 PM

they look 'Celtic', it's hard to find Germanic looking people here let alone in Ireland

What are you talking about? These two guys are Faelid-ScandoNordid: you couldn't get more typical Germans... The two girls in the middle aren't particularly German looking, but they pass

Norb

12-27-2020, 05:56 PM

What are you talking about? These two guys are Faelid-ScandoNordid: you couldn't get more typical Germans... The two girls in the middle aren't particularly German looking, but they pass

Germans or Germanic? I'm talking about Germanic! the left man is KN and Brunn and the right looks like Wayne Rooney mixed with something else in my view

slaog

03-11-2021, 10:33 PM

Not the best looking bunch, my friend used to live in Cork, when he moved back to Slovakia, he said he felt like he is back in heaven.

Either is Toni Garrn according to you as you rated her 6.3/10. Bizarre.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306949-Rate-German-fashion-model-Toni-Garrn

TheMaestro

03-11-2021, 10:43 PM

Either is Toni Garrn according to you as you rated her 6.3/10. Bizarre.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?306949-Rate-German-fashion-model-Toni-Garrn

And?

Grace O'Malley

11-18-2021, 12:29 AM

This is a great way to see what the majority of people look like i.e. large crowds so you get to see the general look of populations. Cork is one of the most distinctive areas in Ireland genetically going on two recent dna studies in Ireland. One of the least similar areas to Britain but saying that all of Isles populations form a cluster so no area has a cluster of it's own with possibly the Orcadians or some of the Scottish Isles being separated and of course Irish Travellers. I think Irish are obviously similar to their closest neighbouring populations i.e. British. Cork is in South Munster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utdKjUZz-o0

Didac

11-18-2021, 01:32 AM

Gallop

11-18-2021, 01:42 AM

Some, but I can't imagine the Celts everywhere they could be found with that particular look.

Grace O'Malley

11-18-2021, 01:50 AM

Some, but I can't imagine the Celts everywhere they could be found with that particular look.

My reason for asking if they look Celtic is because of the stereotype about Irish and other "Insular Celts" being the ultimate examples of Celts. I think genetics is turning this stuff on its head. I'm looking forward to more genetic papers on the subject and hoping the Patterson study will be published shortly.

Daco Celtic

11-18-2021, 01:57 AM

Grace O'Malley

11-18-2021, 02:21 AM

How much Norwegian dna do Irish people have from the Vikings? Like less than 20% I think I read somewhere someone correct me if I’m wrong. They don’t look extremely Celtic to me personally but then again I don’t think I’ve seen many Celts as I live in England

I'll go on what the Viking paper said as that is the only paper that has so far looked at that question. More papers will be published in the future so I'm sure things might change. From everything I've read it appears that Irish and Scots were more impacted by Norwegian Vikings while the Danes targeted England. I think Anglo-Saxons are the major players in England and Vikings are only a minor contributor. If more papers come out on this I will revise my opinion. I look to genetic studies to get my information.

Here is what the Viking paper says on the topic. I've never seen this discussed in detail.

We find evidence for a majority of Danish Viking presence in England, Swedish Viking presence in the Baltic, and Norwegian Viking presence in Ireland, Iceland, and Greenland. Additionally, we see substantial foreign European ancestry entering Scandinavia.

The eastward movements mainly involved individuals with Swedish-like ancestry, while the Viking individuals with Norwegian-like ancestry travelled to Iceland, Greenland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. A Danish-like ancestry component is more pronounced in present-day England, which is also in accordance with historical records and still visible in place-names, and modern genetics. Importantly, however, it is currently impossible for us to distinguish Danish-like ancestry in the British Isles from that of the Angles and Saxons, who migrated in the 5th-to-6th 298 centuries CE from Jutland and Northern Germany.

From this, we can see the spread of ancestry during and around the Viking era:
● UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking
ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have
contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have
contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed
to explore this further.
● The ‘Norway’ ancestry signal in the British Isles cannot be explained via Danish or AngloSaxon contribution. These fractions (4% in England, Scotland, and Ireland, 3% in Wales)
likely correspond to the Norwegian Viking legacy in Britain.
● Modern UK individuals contain around 9-18% ‘Italian’ ancestry, plausibly associated with
the Normans and associated increase in population movement during that era. This is a twoway process, with high fractions of the ‘UK-like’ ancestry in a sub-population of Italians.
● Modern Norwegians are structured by their proportion of ‘UK’ and ‘Danish’ ancestry.
● Modern Swedes are structured by a ‘Finland’-like group, a ‘Denmark’ plus ‘Norway’ group,
and a ‘UK’ group.
● Modern Danes are structured into high and low ‘Polish’ ancestry groups, both with similar
amounts of ‘Norway’ and ‘UK’ ancestry, suggesting that these admixtures occurred earlier.
Indeed, the ancient panel implies that this process started in the Viking era, where the high
confidence interval is explained by high inter-individual variation.

https://i.imgur.com/npxzaqF.png

From this study 20% i.e. Danish-like and Norwegian-like. What I find interesting is that they are using this Swedish component to distinguish Danish Vikings from the Anglo-Saxons. So while the Danish component is high in the English they are attributing 6% of that to the Vikings so the majority that Danish-like component is being attributed to the Anglo-Saxons in the English while in the Irish and Scots that are saying it is from the Viking incursions.

There will be more studies on these topics however so things might change.

Creoda

11-18-2021, 07:41 AM

I'll go on what the Viking paper said as that is the only paper that has so far looked at that question. More papers will be published in the future so I'm sure things might change. From everything I've read it appears that Irish and Scots were more impacted by Norwegian Vikings while the Danes targeted England. I think Anglo-Saxons are the major players in England and Vikings are only a minor contributor. If more papers come out on this I will revise my opinion. I look to genetic studies to get my information.

Here is what the Viking paper says on the topic. I've never seen this discussed in detail.

From this, we can see the spread of ancestry during and around the Viking era:
● UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking
ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have
contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have
contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed
to explore this further.
● The ‘Norway’ ancestry signal in the British Isles cannot be explained via Danish or AngloSaxon contribution. These fractions (4% in England, Scotland, and Ireland, 3% in Wales)
likely correspond to the Norwegian Viking legacy in Britain.
● Modern UK individuals contain around 9-18% ‘Italian’ ancestry, plausibly associated with
the Normans and associated increase in population movement during that era. This is a twoway process, with high fractions of the ‘UK-like’ ancestry in a sub-population of Italians.
● Modern Norwegians are structured by their proportion of ‘UK’ and ‘Danish’ ancestry.
● Modern Swedes are structured by a ‘Finland’-like group, a ‘Denmark’ plus ‘Norway’ group,
and a ‘UK’ group.
● Modern Danes are structured into high and low ‘Polish’ ancestry groups, both with similar
amounts of ‘Norway’ and ‘UK’ ancestry, suggesting that these admixtures occurred earlier.
Indeed, the ancient panel implies that this process started in the Viking era, where the high
confidence interval is explained by high inter-individual variation.

https://i.imgur.com/npxzaqF.png

From this study 20% i.e. Danish-like and Norwegian-like. What I find interesting is that they are using this Swedish component to distinguish Danish Vikings from the Anglo-Saxons. So while the Danish component is high in the English they are attributing 6% of that to the Vikings so the majority that Danish-like component is being attributed to the Anglo-Saxons in the English while in the Irish and Scots that are saying it is from the Viking incursions.

There will be more studies on these topics however so things might change.
I never noticed that before about the 9-18% 'Italian' being plausibly associated with Norman French, pretty interesting. Would mean that the Normans had a genetic influence largely disproportionate with their numbers, but the pre-modern pattern was for the wealthy to massively outbreed the poor per capita.

Argentum

11-18-2021, 07:56 AM

Beautiful people

Grace O'Malley

11-18-2021, 07:59 AM

I never noticed that before about the 9-18% 'Italian' being plausibly associated with Norman French, pretty interesting. Would mean that the Normans had a genetic influence largely disproportionate with their numbers, but the pre-modern pattern was for the wealthy to massively outbreed the poor per capita.

The wealthy were more likely to have more surviving children and so have a disproportionate share of descendants. This is the reason why some ydna ends up more dominant in populations. These sort of studies are what interest me most. The ones looking at deep ancestry and pinpointing historical migrations. There is some interesting ones coming out.

Grace O'Malley

11-18-2021, 09:30 AM

I'm posting some interesting things about Cork like I did in the Galway thread.

*Cork is the largest county in Ireland, it is also the southernmost country of Ireland.

*Cork boast the second-largest natural harbour in the world after Sydney Harbour and Cork also has the oldest Yacht Club in the world, founded in 1720.

https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/84712004?profile=original

*Henry Ford's father, John Ford, was born near the town of Ballinascarthy, Cork and the first factory outside of the USA was in Co. Cork. Henry Ford founded the company on 17 April 1917. This was the first factory Ford had purposely built outside of America anywhere else in the world.

*People most probably know that Cobh in Cork was the last port of call for the Titanic before that fateful meeting with an iceberg but Cobh also held the first-ever motorboat race in 1903. The Harmsworth Cup.

*The largest wedge tomb in Ireland is also in Glanworth – the Labbacallee Tomb. The wedge tomb at Labbacallee, in Fermoy County Cork, is the biggest of all the Irish wedge tombs, known as the Hag’s Bed; the tomb is associated with the Celtic Hag Goddess’ Caillech Bhearra’.

https://irisharoundtheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/512px-11._Labbacallee_Wedge_Tomb_Co._Cork.jpg.webp

*45% of the worlds Tic Tac’s are made in Cork. They are manufactured in the Ferrero factory in Cork, Ireland. The factory produces about 36 tic tac’s per second.

*The guided missile was invented in 1877 by a talented engineer from Castlebar in Co Mayo. Louis Brennan also designed an unusual monorail train, a two-wheeled car and even an early helicopter. The Brennan torpedo was first tested at Camden Fort(near Crosshaven) in the late 1800s. It was the first weapon in history that could be remotely controlled to its target.

*Cork got its nickname ‘The Rebel County’ due to a history of independence from the Viking invasions to the Irish War of Independence when it was the scene of a considerable amount of fighting. The county is known as the "rebel county", a name given to it by King Henry VII of England for its support, in a futile attempt at a rebellion in 1491, of Perkin Warbeck, who claimed to be Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/3725/1862612_2_articlelarge_bn-1004922_04e2f991943d41b8a4715dcba321b367.jpg

Cork fans used to fly the Confederate Flag at games and have been doing this for decades but they have now been banned from use due to "The flag has associations with slavery and racism in southern US states and is frequently used as a symbol by white supremacy organisations."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-31004922.html

*Cork's Glanworth Bridge holds two European records. The 13-arch bridge in the village of Glanworth was built in the mid-15th-century structure and is said to be the narrowest and oldest public bridge in everyday use in Europe.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OWV0kejaQms/UZoqWI0csOI/AAAAAAAAcCg/Yoh4oEehaSg/s1600/G2.jpg

*Sir Walter Raleigh is said to have planted the first potato in Ireland near his home in Youghal, Cork, around 1588.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/c4/dd/17c4ddc2edc55a233aa7ae441cdb0dfd.jpg

*Cork has a mountainous and flat landscape with many beaches and sea cliffs along its coast. The southwest of Ireland is known for its peninsulas and some in Cork include the Beara Peninsula, Sheep's Head, Mizen Head, and Brow Head. Brow Head is the most southerly point of mainland Ireland. There are many islands off the coast of the county, in particular, off West Cork. Carbery's Hundred Isles are the islands around Long Island Bay and Roaringwater Bay.

https://www.vacationkillarney.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DPP_0105.jpg

*Fastnet Rock lies in the Atlantic Ocean 11.3 km south of mainland Ireland, making it the most southerly point of Ireland. Many notable islands lie off Cork, including Bere, Great Island, Sherkin, and Cape Clear. With an estimated 1,199 km (745 mi) of coastline, Cork is one of three counties which claims to have the longest coastline in Ireland, alongside Mayo and Donegal. Cork is also one of just three counties to border two bodies of water - the Celtic Sea to the south and the Atlantic Ocean to the west.

Lighthouse on Fastnet Rock

https://media.boatsnews.com/boatsnews-com/31664/lighthouse-fastnet-lighthouse-1.jpg

*There are 14,829 Irish language speakers in County Cork, with 3,660 native speakers in the Cork Gaeltacht. In addition, in 2011 there were 6,273 pupils attending the 21 Gaelscoileanna and six Gaelcholáistí all across the county. According to the Irish Census 2006, there are 4,896 people in the county who identify themselves as being daily Irish speakers outside of the education system.

https://bearabreifneway.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Sli%E2%95%A0%C3%BC-Gaeltacht-Muscrai.jpg

*The Blarney Stone and Blarney Castle are in Cork.

https://www.irishcentral.com/uploads/assets/resized_blarney-castle-tourism-ireland.jpg

*Ellis Island's first documented immigrant came from Cork, Annie Moore from Shandon.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5f/39/31/5f39311998042b0118ac55842e821a4c.jpg

*Cork also boast Europe's first Temperance Society and St Colman's Cathedral in Cobh has the largest Carillon Bells in the British Isles.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/cobh-cathedral-colored-houses-landscape-clear-sky-amazing-view-cobh-cathedral-colored-houses-landscape-clear-sky-161122767.jpg

slaog

11-18-2021, 12:02 PM

Megadorian

11-18-2021, 01:01 PM

Did the Normans leave any significant impact in Cork? Some maps show that they ruled most of Ireland at some point

Didac

11-19-2021, 01:06 AM

I'll go on what the Viking paper said as that is the only paper that has so far looked at that question. More papers will be published in the future so I'm sure things might change. From everything I've read it appears that Irish and Scots were more impacted by Norwegian Vikings while the Danes targeted England. I think Anglo-Saxons are the major players in England and Vikings are only a minor contributor. If more papers come out on this I will revise my opinion. I look to genetic studies to get my information.

Here is what the Viking paper says on the topic. I've never seen this discussed in detail.

From this, we can see the spread of ancestry during and around the Viking era:
● UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking
ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have
contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have
contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed
to explore this further.
● The ‘Norway’ ancestry signal in the British Isles cannot be explained via Danish or AngloSaxon contribution. These fractions (4% in England, Scotland, and Ireland, 3% in Wales)
likely correspond to the Norwegian Viking legacy in Britain.
● Modern UK individuals contain around 9-18% ‘Italian’ ancestry, plausibly associated with
the Normans and associated increase in population movement during that era. This is a twoway process, with high fractions of the ‘UK-like’ ancestry in a sub-population of Italians.
● Modern Norwegians are structured by their proportion of ‘UK’ and ‘Danish’ ancestry.
● Modern Swedes are structured by a ‘Finland’-like group, a ‘Denmark’ plus ‘Norway’ group,
and a ‘UK’ group.
● Modern Danes are structured into high and low ‘Polish’ ancestry groups, both with similar
amounts of ‘Norway’ and ‘UK’ ancestry, suggesting that these admixtures occurred earlier.
Indeed, the ancient panel implies that this process started in the Viking era, where the high
confidence interval is explained by high inter-individual variation.

https://i.imgur.com/npxzaqF.png

From this study 20% i.e. Danish-like and Norwegian-like. What I find interesting is that they are using this Swedish component to distinguish Danish Vikings from the Anglo-Saxons. So while the Danish component is high in the English they are attributing 6% of that to the Vikings so the majority that Danish-like component is being attributed to the Anglo-Saxons in the English while in the Irish and Scots that are saying it is from the Viking incursions.

There will be more studies on these topics however so things might change.

Grace they use Sweden as a proxy because they can’t differentiate genetically between an anglo Saxon and a Dane. Why? Because the English are almost completely danish and Dutch with a bit of Norwegian and sprinkle of Celtic. There was 3 Danish invasions the anglo Saxons the Vikings and the “normans” who were Danes that settled in Normandy. There’s no French dna

Didac

11-19-2021, 01:07 AM

What's a typical celt to you?

Idk what Celt even means nowadays the whole of the so called Celtic fringe or lands is mixed with Germanic dna

Daco Celtic

11-19-2021, 01:23 AM

Honesty, everyone should visit Cork before they die. It's a special place.

Grace O'Malley

11-19-2021, 11:19 AM

Honesty, everyone should visit Cork before they die. It's a special place.

I'm one of the fortunate ones who has been there. The countryside in Ireland is magical. I'm not that bovvered with Dublin. :)

Grace O'Malley

11-19-2021, 11:28 AM

Grace they use Sweden as a proxy because they can’t differentiate genetically between an anglo Saxon and a Dane. Why? Because the English are almost completely danish and Dutch with a bit of Norwegian and sprinkle of Celtic. There was 3 Danish invasions the anglo Saxons the Vikings and the “normans” who were Danes that settled in Normandy. There’s no French dna

It's going to be a lot more complicated. English have a lot of Gaulish (Celtic) dna in the mix. The Vikings that became the Normans did indeed have French wives so Normans are not just Danes. Those Vikings intermarried wherever they went. :) The ones that came to Ireland were mostly Cambro-Normans and from Wales and areas like Bristol and Devon. They were already about 100 years in Britain before they came over to Ireland.

This new study is coming out soon.

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age
HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Present-day populations from England and Wales harbour more ancestry derived from Early European Farmers (EEF) than did people of the Early Bronze Age. To study how this occurred, we generated genome-wide data from 803 individuals, almost all from the Middle to Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age, increasing data in this period from Britain by 12-fold, and from Western and Central Europe by more than two-fold. Between 1000-875 BCE, EEF ancestry increased in southern Britain (England and Wales) but not in northern Britain (Scotland), due to incorporation into the population of a stream of migrants who arrived at this time and in previous centuries and who were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France. These migrants cumulatively contributed about half the ancestry of Iron Age people of England and Wales, thereby documenting a previously unknown demographic process that is a plausible vector for the spread of early Celtic languages into Britain. These patterns are part of a broader trend of EEF ancestry proportions becoming more similar across Central and Western Europe in the Middle to Late Bronze Age, coincident with intensification of cultural exchange and highlighting this period as a peak of interaction and mobility. We find no evidence of a comparable rate of migration into Britain in the Iron Age. The distinct genetic trajectories of Britain and continental Europe in the Iron Age are also exemplified by the fact that the allele conferring lactase persistence rose to ~50% frequency in Britain by this time whereas it was only ~7% in Central Europe and underwent a comparable rise in frequency only a millennium later, a pattern that could only occur if there were qualitative differences in how dairy products were used in Britain and in Central Europe.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

Also Scandinavian countries have a lot of Isles like dna.

Grace O'Malley

11-19-2021, 11:37 AM

Did the Normans leave any significant impact in Cork? Some maps show that they ruled most of Ireland at some point

Yes they did indeed. Normans went everywhere in Ireland.

By the early 1170s the Anglo-Normans had taken control of large tracts of land from Waterford to Dublin. In 1172 they turned their attention to Cork. Two Anglo-Norman lords, Milo de Cogan and Robert Fitzstephen, were despatched to Corcach Mór na Mumhan with a small land force to confront and dispossess the Vikings and chief of the McCarthys, Dermod McCarthy, of his lands in counties Cork and Kerry.

Once the McCarthys had been defeated, Fitstephen and De Cogan’s began the transformation of the settlement into an Anglo-Norman town. It was to become one of fifty-six early Anglo-Norman walled towns established in Ireland, some re-founded on adapted and extended Viking settlements sites.

Initially, the Anglo-Normans noted that the Danish settlement on the marshy island was “fortified” and had a gate (“porta”) leading into it. The nature of the fortification, whether it was stone or timber, was not recorded. Incorporating elements of the old settlement, the newcomers instigated many fundamental changes to the town.

http://corkheritage.ie/?page_id=833

Didac

11-19-2021, 11:50 AM

It's going to be a lot more complicated. English have a lot of Gaulish (Celtic) dna in the mix. The Vikings that became the Normans did indeed have French wives so Normans are not just Danes. Those Vikings intermarried wherever they went. :) The ones that came to Ireland were mostly Cambro-Normans and from Wales and areas like Bristol and Devon. They were already about 100 years in Britain before they came over to Ireland.

This new study is coming out soon.

Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age
HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Present-day populations from England and Wales harbour more ancestry derived from Early European Farmers (EEF) than did people of the Early Bronze Age. To study how this occurred, we generated genome-wide data from 803 individuals, almost all from the Middle to Late Bronze Age and the Iron Age, increasing data in this period from Britain by 12-fold, and from Western and Central Europe by more than two-fold. Between 1000-875 BCE, EEF ancestry increased in southern Britain (England and Wales) but not in northern Britain (Scotland), due to incorporation into the population of a stream of migrants who arrived at this time and in previous centuries and who were genetically most similar to ancient individuals from France. These migrants cumulatively contributed about half the ancestry of Iron Age people of England and Wales, thereby documenting a previously unknown demographic process that is a plausible vector for the spread of early Celtic languages into Britain. These patterns are part of a broader trend of EEF ancestry proportions becoming more similar across Central and Western Europe in the Middle to Late Bronze Age, coincident with intensification of cultural exchange and highlighting this period as a peak of interaction and mobility. We find no evidence of a comparable rate of migration into Britain in the Iron Age. The distinct genetic trajectories of Britain and continental Europe in the Iron Age are also exemplified by the fact that the allele conferring lactase persistence rose to ~50% frequency in Britain by this time whereas it was only ~7% in Central Europe and underwent a comparable rise in frequency only a millennium later, a pattern that could only occur if there were qualitative differences in how dairy products were used in Britain and in Central Europe.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB47891

Also Scandinavian countries have a lot of Isles like dna.

Actually those Danes brought their wives over to Normandy when given land and they didn’t have many children. Next thing it was 155 years from the time they settled there to when they invaded England in the Norman conquest. There’s no way they weren’t mostly Danish if not fully Danish. That’s 2 generations 155years. Also have one English persons dna results and they completely mistook his dna for north Germanic and their reference was Danish and Dutch.

Grace O'Malley

11-19-2021, 12:07 PM

Actually those Danes brought their wives over to Normandy when given land and they didn’t have many children. Next thing it was 155 years from the time they settled there to when they invaded England in the Norman conquest. There’s no way they weren’t mostly Danish if not fully Danish. That’s 2 generations 155years. Also have one English persons dna results and they completely mistook his dna for north Germanic and their reference was Danish and Dutch.

No one is saying they hadn't Scandinavian ancestry but many did take French wives. I'm sure we will have some Norman dna (from Britain and Ireland) in the future to see what they look like. It would be great also to have some Normans before they left Normandy. Anyway regarding the English, the bulk of their affinity to Danish is because of the Anglo-Saxons. Hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions with some studies coming out. The one above by Patterson and there is one coming out looking at the Anglo-Saxon impact on England.

I hope ph2ter doesn't mind me posting this here. I don't think he will mind but there does appear to be more affinity to Norway for Scots and Irish and English more to Denmark and Germany.

Maybe on the colored map of R1a clades can be seen Viking and Germanic links. Scotland and Ireland are more similar to Norway and England to Denmark and Germany.

https://i.imgur.com/BeTVYZ5.png

This is just on R1a though but still interesting.

Didac

11-19-2021, 12:51 PM

No one is saying they hadn't Scandinavian ancestry but many did take French wives. I'm sure we will have some Norman dna (from Britain and Ireland) in the future to see what they look like. It would be great also to have some Normans before they left Normandy. Anyway regarding the English, the bulk of their affinity to Danish is because of the Anglo-Saxons. Hopefully we should be able to answer some of these questions with some studies coming out. The one above by Patterson and there is one coming out looking at the Anglo-Saxon impact on England.

I hope ph2ter doesn't mind me posting this here. I don't think he will mind but there does appear to be more affinity to Norway for Scots and Irish and English more to Denmark and Germany.

This is just on R1a though but still interesting.

Lmk when that study comes out I’d be interested, also why’s it only on “anglo Saxon”dna there was 3 invasions the anglo Saxons from Denmark and Netherlands, then Vikings from Denmark then the Danish normans. And ur right 99% of Vikings that came over to England were Danes with a minority of Norwegians that raided the north west and a minority of swedes who I don’t think left any dna. Norwegians mostly raided Scotland and Ireland. Also what are they using to differentiate the “anglo Saxon” dna are they using Sweden as a proxy again and Ireland as a proxy for “Celtic” ? Bc the Irish are around 20% Norwegian so they could have skewed results af

Grace O'Malley

11-19-2021, 01:19 PM

Lmk when that study comes out I’d be interested, also why’s it only on “anglo Saxon”dna there was 3 invasions the anglo Saxons from Denmark and Netherlands, then Vikings from Denmark then the Danish normans. And ur right 99% of Vikings that came over to England were Danes with a minority of Norwegians that raided the north west and a minority of swedes who I don’t think left any dna. Norwegians mostly raided Scotland and Ireland. Also what are they using to differentiate the “anglo Saxon” dna are they using Sweden as a proxy again and Ireland as a proxy for “Celtic” ? Bc the Irish are around 20% Norwegian so they could have skewed results af

They should just label that dna Irish/Scots etc if that is what they are using or else call it Insular Celtic. In the Viking Study they just called it British. I don't know if a lot of similarity between some of these populations is Bronze Age related. Hopefully the study will be very interesting. I'm sure it will be.

In the Viking study they said that the Danes from the Viking period had a Swedish component which is lacking in present day English and that is why they estimated that the Viking impact in England was 6% with most of the Danish affinity being due to the Anglo-Saxons. This was also what the People of the British Isles Study said.

A more general conclusion of our analyses is that while many of the historical migration events leave signals in our data, they have had a smaller effect on the genetic composition of UK populations than has sometimes been argued. In particular, we see no clear genetic evidence of the Danish Viking occupation and control of a large part of England, either in separate UK clusters in that region (cf. Orkney), or in estimated ancestry profiles, suggesting a relatively limited input of DNA from the Danish Vikings and subsequent mixing with nearby regions, and clear evidence for only a minority Norse contribution (about 25%) to the current Orkney population.

I really think that for England it is very difficult to separate the Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking contribution. More studies will be coming out in the next few years. There is another Viking paper that will have more samples from Western Norway which this recent Viking study was lacking.

Didac

11-19-2021, 01:29 PM

They should just label that dna Irish/Scots etc if that is what they are using or else call it Insular Celtic. In the Viking Study they just called it British. I don't know if a lot of similarity between some of these populations is Bronze Age related. Hopefully the study will be very interesting. I'm sure it will be.

In the Viking study they said that the Danes from the Viking period had a Swedish component which is lacking in present day English and that is why they estimated that the Viking impact in England was 6% with most of the Danish affinity being due to the Anglo-Saxons. This was also what the People of the British Isles Study said.

I really think that for England it is very difficult to separate the Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking contribution. More studies will be coming out in the next few years. There is another Viking paper that will have more samples from Western Norway which this recent Viking study was lacking.

Only 6% via the Viking invasions? Seems laughably low this is why they need to use modern Danes as a proxy even if it’s extremely difficult to differentiate. Using swedes changes it bc Danes aren’t swedes it’s completely different. How much was the anglo Saxon contribution percentage wise?

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 03:01 AM

Only 6% via the Viking invasions? Seems laughably low this is why they need to use modern Danes as a proxy even if it’s extremely difficult to differentiate. Using swedes changes it bc Danes aren’t swedes it’s completely different. How much was the anglo Saxon contribution percentage wise?

They didn't use Swedes. They said that the Danes had a "Swedish component" to their dna that was not enough in Britain. It might be a way to differentiate Viking Danes from Anglo-Saxons.

Here is the quote again.

UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking
ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have
contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have
contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed
to explore this further.

You wouldn't use modern populations because they would not be the same as populations 1,000 years ago. They need to use ancient genomes which is what studies now are doing. Basically what studies do now is look at different genomes through different periods and they can see what changes have occurred. Even the Icelandic populations has changed from its foundation. Icelanders originally had more Gaelic ancestry but modern Icelanders now have 30% Gaelic/70% Scandinavian.

Creoda

11-20-2021, 03:11 AM

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 03:17 AM

6% Danish in England is reasonable, Didac is a troll. A lot of the Danes were massacred on St Brice's Day. The paper also says 4% Norwegian and 1% Swedish, so it could be c.10% Scandinavian Viking blood, especially in Danelaw areas.

That does seem reasonable as well. There is also a big Anglo-Saxon paper that is due out. With studies I try to have an open mind as things can change once there are more samples to compare. The ancient dna studies are by far the most interesting ones to me. I wish they would hurry up and publish some of these papers.

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 04:06 AM

Regarding Vikings in Cork as previously mentioned I think in the Galway thread that Vikings like the Normans blended into the Gaelic world. After raiding and settling down Vikings became traders.

When, in the late twelfth century, we catch a shadowy glimpse of Cork we see that its population may best be characterised as Hiberno-Viking. It seems safe to assume that intermarriage and acculturation had done much to give Cork’s Vikings an ‘Irish’ character. They were ‘Gaelicised’ to some degree, as reflected by the name of one of their number, Malmaras Macalf (‘son of Olaf’). A man named Ua Dubgaill (‘descendant of a dark foreigner’) who held a fishery among the islands of Cork in 1199 may have been another ‘Gaelicised’ Scandinavian. There were Irish people, like Gilla Pátric mac Sinan, living on the south island of Cork. The intoxicated Muirchartach Ua Mael Sechlainn who fell from the bridge of Cork and drowned in 1163 had clearly enjoyed too much alcohol, an unfortunate indicator of the genial relations that existed between the residents of Cork and the wider Irish society of which they were an integral part. Cork’s Hiberno-Viking community were certainly Christian in the twelfth century. Their leader had a chapel dedicated to St Nicholas in the courtyard attached to his residence. Mass in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was attended by Hiberno-Vikings from Cork.

https://www.historyireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/82_small_1290178872.jpg

A coin ascribed to Eric ‘Bloodaxe’, king of Northumbria (947–9, 952–9)—the only Viking artefact found in Cork before the end of the twentieth century.

Dublin was by far the largest Viking settlement in Ireland and then Waterford and Limerick. Vikings did have a presence in much of Ireland though due to being able to sail up the River Shannon. Vikings had a presence also in the Central Irish counties because of the river systems and this is where they raided many Irish monasteries.

Vikings had a settlement in Lough Key in West/Central Ireland.

https://www.archaeology.org/images/MA2020/Ireland/Ireland-Lough-Key-Map.jpg

https://www.battleofclontarf.net/viking-places-to-visit-in-ireland/viking-locations-to-visit-in-cork/3566

Cork began as a monastic settlement, founded by St Finbar in the sixth century. However the ancestor of the modern city was founded between 915 and 922, when Viking settlers established a trading community. The Viking leader Ottir Iarla is particularly associated with raiding and conquests in the province of Munster. The Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib connects this with the earliest Viking settlement of Cork. The Norse phase of Cork's history left a legacy of family names, such as Cotter and Coppinger, peculiar to Cork which are claimed to have Norse origins. In the twelfth century, this settlement was taken over by invading Anglo-Norman settlers. The Norsemen of Cork fought against the Norman incomers, mounting an expedition of 32 ships against them in 1173, which was defeated in a naval battle. Cork's city charter was granted by Prince John in 1185. Over the centuries, much of the city was rebuilt, time and again, after numerous fires. The city was at one time fully walled, and several sections and gates remain. The title of Mayor of Cork was established by royal charter in 1318, and the title was changed to Lord Mayor in 1900.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cork#cite_note-FOOTNOTETodd186730-10

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 04:56 AM

Just looking at the Coppinger surname.

https://i.imgur.com/K6Mwz5J.png

https://i.imgur.com/3xYxWHX.png

https://www.libraryireland.com/names/c/coipingeir.php

Some Coppingers from Cork today.

https://images.southernstar.ie/uploads/2018/12/org-4167049_06db1236-ed13-568b-80b3-d739cd4ca775.jpg

https://scontent.fper7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/26840687_956755284500973_8271643055015567245_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=PUQcj7kauvoAX9mfNtp&_nc_ht=scontent.fper7-1.fna&oh=dcfabeeef4824ef191c443896eabdc0c&oe=61BE754E

https://i.imgur.com/gluFzgp.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/538570091248381952/5J2lJRdR.jpeg

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Peter_Coppinger_Teamwork-718x523.jpg

https://www.northernirelandchamber.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Peter-Coppinger-498x355.jpg

Coppingers Court, Cork

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/rpUwjLSAxgE3dbMOFPnEePkfHqEr1ACXg2nFdS2ffeZkPOuPcC ldN3R1R5jRi2sxqh2T1hxe-Utk5A7cp5sJiqtcOw7iSywkGyRF6VEeOYBzUXtDiTRlp6HDN-I36HjNDZlGSQ

Just interested in a surname that has establishment since Viking times.

The man who built Coppingers Court.

Sir Walter Coppinger (died 1639) was an Irish noble from County Cork, Ireland, who was a magistrate of Cork city, a lawyer, and a landowner. Coppinger came from one of the most prominent families in Cork city; though himself of Viking rather than Gaelic descent, he was hostile to the English settlement of Cork, and had a reputation for ruthlessness.[1]

Sir Walter Coppinger was the eldest son of James Coppinger, and the great grandson of Stephen Coppinger who was the first representative of the city of Cork in the Parliament of Ireland in 1560, and Mayor of Cork on two occasions, in 1564 and 1572. Sir Walter was a moneylender, and acquired many lands and properties from people who defaulted on mortgages provided by Sir Walter. This made him somewhat unpopular and his reputation in Cork to this day reflects this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Walter_Coppinger

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 05:53 AM

Cork surnames and families.

http://www.rootsireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/ocallaghan_large-298x400.gif

http://www.rootsireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/murphy_large-298x400.gif

https://www.irishgathering.ie/images/coa/2011/mccarthy_large.gif

http://www.rootsireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/barry_large-298x400.gif

Other popular names in Cork include Nagle, Lombard, Roche, Condon and O’Keeffe.

https://www.rootsireland.ie/cork-genealogy/cork-surnames/

Barry's Tea and Lyon's Tea are the two most popular brands of tea in Ireland.

https://img.resized.co/lovin_ie/eyJkYXRhIjoie1widXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2ltYW dlcy5sb3Zpbi5pZVxcXC91cGxvYWRzXFxcL2ltYWdlc1xcXC91 cGxvYWRzXFxcLzIwMTdcXFwvMDNcXFwvX3JlbGF0ZWRFbnRyeU ltYWdlMnhcXFwvU2NyZWVuLVNob3QtMjAxNy0wMy0wMi1hdC0x MC4yNC4wMC5wbmdcIixcIndpZHRoXCI6NjQwLFwiaGVpZ2h0XC I6MzU4LFwiZGVmYXVsdFwiOlwiaHR0cHM6XFxcL1xcXC9sb3Zp bi5pZVxcXC9pbWFnZXNcXFwvbm8taW1hZ2UucG5nXCIsXCJvcH Rpb25zXCI6e1wib3V0cHV0XCI6XCJ3ZWJwXCJ9fSIsImhhc2gi OiIyZTZmNGJiZTA0MjdjMzMxZmM1ZGY1YzFmMzFkMTVjMTZjYW M1ODc1In0=/americans-have-joined-in-on-the-great-barry-s-or-lyons-debate-and-it-s-hilarious.png

Whether you like Barry's or Lyons' Tea has divided Ireland.

https://i.imgur.com/gDMlhQc.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESuHkSOhmas

Grace O'Malley

11-20-2021, 06:31 AM

Some of the most famous people from Cork.

10. Fiona Shaw

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/dursley-family.jpg

Born Fiona Mary Wilson, this well-known actress is a face most people are familiar with, especially if you are a Harry Potter fan.

She played Petunia Dursley, the aunt of Harry, in the Harry Potter film series from 2001-2010.

As well as this, she starred in True Blood and also works as a theatre and opera director. She hails from Faranree, County Cork.

9. Graham Norton

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/graham-norton-at-the-baftas-2-1068x712.jpg

Although he was born in Dublin, Graham Norton grew up in Bandon, County Cork, and became a hugely successful comedian.

Starting in Father Ted in his early days to having his own Channel 4 chat shows, which are hugely popular in Ireland and the UK, Graham Norton is definitely one of the most famous people from Cork of all time.

8. Cillian Murphy

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/cillian-murphy.jpg

Best known for his roles in Dunkirk, Red Eye, and Peaky Blinders, Cillian Murphy has been so successful that he was named one of the greatest Irish actors on a list published in The Irish Times in 2020.

He was born in Douglas, County Cork and raised in Ballintemple, County Cork.

7. Annie Moore

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/annie-moore-1068x712.jpg

Annie is famous for being Ellis Island’s first immigrant when she arrived on the island in New York on New Year’s Day in 1892.

There are many theories about how she got her place at the front of the line. Still, whatever the case may be, she was awarded a $10 gold piece from the superintendent for making history, and today there is a statue of her and her brothers in Cobh, County Cork.

6. Frank O’Connor

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Frank_O%27Connor_Portrait.jpg

Best known for his short stories and memoirs, O’Connor was also a travel writer, novelist, and poet among other titles .His stories depict his own life experiences and his experiences during the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War.

5. Jonathan Rhys Myers

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/jonathanrhysmeyersapr06-edit-2.jpg

A famous actor, model, and musician, Jonathan Rhys Myers has had some incredible roles including acting as Elvis for which he won a Golden Globe in 2005.

He’s also starred in The Tudors, Michael Collins, and Bend it like Beckham. Although born a Dubliner, he grew up in Cork.

4. Roy Keane

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/roy-keane.jpg

Cork’s beloved football player, Roy Keane has had a hugely successful career as a midfielder and is regarded as one of his generation’s best. He was the assistant manager for the Irish team from 2013 to 2018.

3. Sonia O’Sullivan

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/sonia-osullivan-2000-1068x724.jpg

Sonia O’Sullivan became one of Ireland’s most famous track and field athletes after winning a gold medal at the 1995 World Championships and a silver medal at the 2000 Olympic Games.

She is originally from Cobh in County Cork.

2. Rory Gallagher

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/rory-gallagher-1068x677.jpg

Rory was a famous Irish blues and rock musician, songwriter, and producer, who grew up in Cork.

He rose to fame as a multi-instrumentalist, inspiring many guitarists such as Slash and The Edge, who credit him for their sound.

He was listed in Rolling Stone magazine as one of the greatest guitarists of all time.

1. Michael Collins

https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/michael-collins.jpg

Hailing from Clonakilty, County Cork, this Irish revolutionary, soldier, and politician has such a legacy that Michael Collins is a name everyone in Ireland knows. Liam Neeson portrayed his rebellious story in the 1996 movie Michael Collins.

All of the above copied from this link. https://www.meanwhileinireland.com/top-10-most-famous-people-from-cork-of-all-time-ranked/

I don't suppose many people know of Rory Gallagher on here. Unfortunately he died way too soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlEQOmGISHM

Didac

11-20-2021, 06:29 PM

They didn't use Swedes. They said that the Danes had a "Swedish component" to their dna that was not enough in Britain. It might be a way to differentiate Viking Danes from Anglo-Saxons.

Here is the quote again.

UK populations all have high ‘Denmark’ ancestry. Although Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking
ancestry are hard to distinguish, Viking-era Danes have too much ‘Sweden’ ancestry to have
contributed more than around 6% ancestry into England, whereas they could plausibly have
contributed all (up to 16%) of the Scottish and Irish signal. Anglo-Saxon samples are needed
to explore this further.

You wouldn't use modern populations because they would not be the same as populations 1,000 years ago. They need to use ancient genomes which is what studies now are doing. Basically what studies do now is look at different genomes through different periods and they can see what changes have occurred. Even the Icelandic populations has changed from its foundation. Icelanders originally had more Gaelic ancestry but modern Icelanders now have 30% Gaelic/70% Scandinavian.

See that’s why it’s at 6% it’s only logical if ur using a Swedish component as reason to speak on how much dna they have is stupid and laughable. It’s likely a lot a lot higher. We must remember these are the same people that came over in the anglo Saxon invasions. They’re trying to differentiate the same people just a few hundred years apart

Didac

11-20-2021, 06:31 PM

6% Danish in England is reasonable, Didac is a troll. A lot of the Danes were massacred on St Brice's Day. The paper also says 4% Norwegian and 1% Swedish, so it could be c.10% Scandinavian Viking blood, especially in Danelaw areas.

I’m a troll that’s the only thing you have to say when u have nothing to dispute. U say I’m a troll bc I speak the truth and don’t abide by ur dumb agenda

Grace O'Malley

11-21-2021, 05:20 AM

See that’s why it’s at 6% it’s only logical if ur using a Swedish component as reason to speak on how much dna they have is stupid and laughable. It’s likely a lot a lot higher. We must remember these are the same people that came over in the anglo Saxon invasions. They’re trying to differentiate the same people just a few hundred years apart

Okay I'll put it this way. They don't match the Viking Danish samples as they have a higher Swedish component. I don't know why you don't understand this? There are newer studies coming out on Vikings and they will have West Norwegian Viking samples which were lacking from this study. There is also an Anglo-Saxon study coming out. These papers will be very helpful in looking at these sort of questions.

Anglo-Celtic

12-02-2021, 01:26 AM

Daco Celtic

12-02-2021, 01:33 AM

test

Cork Irish is like the highly concentrated soap they sell in the supermarket. It's worth like 4x the typical Irish. So every though I'm only half Cork Irish, that makes me 200% Irish with excess Balkan.

Anglo-Celtic

12-02-2021, 01:36 AM

Grace O'Malley

12-02-2021, 10:05 AM

Check out the fourth photo in the first post in this thread, and look at the fourth man in the front row. Jeremy Irons has a doppleganger!

My God you are right. He's the spit of him. When I looked just now I was thinking "Is that actually Jeremy Irons?" :)

Grace O'Malley

12-02-2021, 10:11 AM

Cork Irish is like the highly concentrated soap they sell in the supermarket. It's worth like 4x the typical Irish. So every though I'm only half Cork Irish, that makes me 200% Irish with excess Balkan.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/sPk0DbXHCVDDoxB7DeYrwgGp4A0XxUok7Y1_srAY--7I8sL7tRXkXRjKpmQ0Bi87sYazwjKmjm_6ppSewFBaj1nWtnZ9 GtIemchh3Q1mlkmeTr56G2dO4F4Hk4Muz9E823UBapCdn-JrmyNd6MKLYsi-hCASPVZhKh0

Just thought of you when I saw this. :)