Are Bengalis(from Bangladesh specifically)South Indians with some SouthEast Asian admixture overall?

[Jana]

South Indian + Burmese = East Bengali ?

I looking for gedmatch of Sylhetis (northeast Bangladesh)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylhetis

[Thambi]

some NE bengali results

bengali 1
S-Indian 44.52
Baloch 30.27
SE-Asian 6.2
NE-Asian 4.93
NE-Euro 3.83
Caucasian 3.09
Siberian 2.71
SW-Asian 1.46
Mediterranean 1.42
Papuan 1.01
American 0.24
Beringian 0.22
San 0.08
Pygmy 0.02

bengali 2
S-Indian 46.86
Baloch 28.96
NE-Asian 6.63
SE-Asian 5.75
NE-Euro 5.11
Siberian 3.54
SW-Asian 1.63
Caucasian 0.49
Papuan 0.4
American 0.39
San 0.26

bengali 3
S-Indian 45.67
Baloch 29.62
SE-Asian 8.49
NE-Euro 4.6
Siberian 2.73
NE-Asian 2.6
Caucasian 2.53
Mediterranean 1.59
Papuan 1.2
American 0.93
SW-Asian 0.01

bengali 4
S-Indian 48.07
Baloch 27.16
SE-Asian 7.98
NE-Euro 3.99
Siberian 3.82
Caucasian 3.64
NE-Asian 3.56
Papuan 0.91
Mediterranean 0.86


here are some bengali results from g25, its a new trending calc lol

I modeled them with
Dusadh - low caste from Uttar Pradesh. they work better than south indian groups which makes sense since south indian groups have extra iran neolithic compared to people from UP.
Burmese
Kalash - indo aryan population from northern pakistan. they're similar to pashtuns

"Bengali_Bangladesh:Average",
"fit": 0.9795,
"Dusadh": 78.33,
"Burmese": 10.83,
"Kalash": 10.83,

here are individual samples.
https://i.imgur.com/MnYLBA3.png

[Jana]

Thank you for posting. :)

[Token]

South Indians with some excess ASI.

[Jana]

South Indians with some excess ASI.

I am suprised how little Aryan they have, but it makes sense since they are quite dark. Can you elaborate on excess ASI ?

[Token]

I am suprised how little Aryan they have, but it makes sense since they are quite dark. Can you elaborate on excess ASI ?

There is not much to talk about, they just seems mixed with something like Pulliyar or Paniya.

[Adamastor]

I know a Bengali guy who could pass for darker euros like Spanish or Greeks.

[Borealis]

what about pakistanis?? how much euro do they get?

Typically 10-15% with exceptions.

[Borealis]

They are as Kush posted but with the exception of Bengali Brahmins who have quite little to no east asian proper.

"sample": "Bengali_Bangladesh:Average",
"fit": 0.8155,
"Irula": 41.67,
"Velamas": 28.33,
"Ror": 21.67,
"Kinh_Vietnam": 8.33,
"Pashtun": 0,

"sample": "Brahmin_West_Bengal:Average",
"fit": 0.5652,
"Ror": 50.83,
"Irula": 28.33,
"Velamas": 20,
"Kinh_Vietnam": 0.83,
"Pashtun": 0,


Compare to maself:

"fit": 1.3235,
"Velamas": 50,
"Irula": 24.17,
"Ror": 15,
"Pashtun": 10.83,
"Kinh_Vietnam": 0,

[Borealis]

seems too high. I believe it for pathans but not punjabis

nvm. both have similar steppe but harappaworld is messy

[Thambi]

seems too high. I believe it for pathans but not punjabis

Euro is about the same with nw indians, pakis, and pashtuns. Even baloch/gedrosian is similar. Major differences are in AASI and caucasian.

[Leto]

I modeled them with
Dusadh - low caste from Uttar Pradesh. they work better than south indian groups which makes sense since south indian groups have extra iran neolithic compared to people from UP.

Why is that? Uttar Pradesh is a North Indian Hindi/Indo-Aryan majority state, why would it be more ASI than South India where people are often as dark as blacks?

[Jana]

Why is that? Uttar Pradesh is a North Indian Hindi/Indo-Aryan majority state, why would it be more ASI than South India where people are often as dark as blacks?

Dark skinned people can be found anywhere in south asia. Bangladesh isn't even in the south. High caste Bengali can be very pale skinned, but those that migrate to Europe are medium to dark brown.

[lameduck]

Benaglis are diverse I have seen quite light skinned Bengali women

[Truth Preacher]

Benaglis are diverse I have seen quite light skinned Bengali women

Yes I’ve met some that look similar to pak punjabis

[Thambi]

Why is that? Uttar Pradesh is a North Indian Hindi/Indo-Aryan majority state, why would it be more ASI than South India where people are often as dark as blacks?

well Uttar pradesh/bihar is right next to bangladesh so thats one reason and dusadh is a low caste group from up/bihar. they have about the same ASI as midcaste south indians. The difference is low caste north indians have higher steppe while mid caste south indians have higher Iran_N.

Uttar Pradesh (30% AASI to 50% AASI)

"Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh", (upper caste UP)
"fit": 2.8153,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 45.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 30.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 23.33

"Kshatriya", (middle caste from UP)
"fit": 2.8274,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 43.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 20,

"Dusadh", (low caste from UP)
"fit": 2.7313,
"Simulated_AASI": 50.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 38.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 10.83,


South India (35% to 60% AASI from upper to lower castes. 75% among tribals).

"Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu", (upper caste tamil nadu)
"fit": 2.1883,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 35,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 17.5


"Piramalai", (middle caste from tamil nadu)
"fit": 2.705,
"Simulated_AASI": 49.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 3.33,

"Mala:Average" (low caste south indian. notice the higher steppe than mid caste south indians. its most likely from rape or adultery of some sort from higher caste men with lower caste women. Its also a reason why R1a shows up in decent amounts among lower castes)
"fit": 2.6961,
"Simulated_AASI": 60.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 30.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 8.33

Paniya (TRIBAL from south india. not dalits/low castes. tribals are not part of caste system. Highest AASI in the subcontinent).
1.7083,
"Simulated_AASI": 75,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 20.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 3.33,



as jana said, black skin can be found even in northwest india and pakistan. It's not always dependent on caste either. yes in general lower castes are darker than upper thats a given but there are many that break this rule since there are many dark brahmins (upper castes) throughout india, even pitch black, and there are many relatively light skinned lower castes, especially in areas like punjab, rajasthan, and gujarat. phenotype doesnt always equal genotype.

[Bigsaul]

The differences between castes are overrated. People can't tell a brahmin from a scheduled class of the same region.

[Truth Preacher]

well Uttar pradesh/bihar is right next to bangladesh so thats one reason and dusadh is a low caste group from up/bihar. they have about the same ASI as midcaste south indians. The difference is low caste north indians have higher steppe while mid caste south indians have higher Iran_N.

Uttar Pradesh (30% AASI to 50% AASI)

"Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh", (upper caste UP)
"fit": 2.8153,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 45.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 30.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 23.33

"Kshatriya", (middle caste from UP)
"fit": 2.8274,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 43.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 20,

"Dusadh", (low caste from UP)
"fit": 2.7313,
"Simulated_AASI": 50.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 38.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 10.83,


South India (35% to 60% AASI from upper to lower castes. 75% among tribals).

"Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu", (upper caste tamil nadu)
"fit": 2.1883,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 35,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 17.5


"Piramalai", (middle caste from tamil nadu)
"fit": 2.705,
"Simulated_AASI": 49.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 3.33,

"Mala:Average" (low caste south indian. notice the higher steppe than mid caste south indians. its most likely from rape or adultery of some sort from higher caste men with lower caste women. Its also a reason why R1a shows up in decent amounts among lower castes)
"fit": 2.6961,
"Simulated_AASI": 60.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 30.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 8.33

Paniya (TRIBAL from south india. not dalits/low castes. tribals are not part of caste system. Highest AASI in the subcontinent).
1.7083,
"Simulated_AASI": 75,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 20.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 3.33,



as jana said, black skin can be found even in northwest india and pakistan. It's not always dependent on caste either. yes in general lower castes are darker than upper thats a given but there are many that break this rule since there are many dark brahmins (upper castes) throughout india, even pitch black, and there are many relatively light skinned lower castes, especially in areas like punjab, rajasthan, and gujarat. phenotype doesnt always equal genotype.

Also there is much more to phenotype than skin colour lol

[lameduck]

The differences between castes are overrated. People can't tell a brahmin from a scheduled class of the same region.

individually its not possible but as a group if you take 100 brahmins and 100 Dalits differences will be obvious to natives.

[Token]

The differences between castes are overrated. People can't tell a brahmin from a scheduled class of the same region.

Maybe, but there is an obvious genetic difference between them.

[Borealis]

Why is that? Uttar Pradesh is a North Indian Hindi/Indo-Aryan majority state, why would it be more ASI than South India where people are often as dark as blacks?

Because ASI climbs the further east and south one goes.

[Truth Preacher]

Because ASI climbs the further east and south one goes.

I don’t think UPites have more AASI than South Indian groups maybe just less IranN.

[Borealis]

I don’t think UPites have more AASI than South Indian groups maybe just less IranN.

Depends on the groups from each respective region in question.

[Pandit]

They are closest to the original Aboriginal North Indians and African tribals who migrated into India before IVC.

They were only Aryanized or Hinduisd in modern times by Brahmin migrants from North mostly Kashmir as noted by many historians that they mostly followed animistic religion and had no caste system.

This was the main reason they easily converted to Islam because Brahmin migrants considered them low caste people.

[Jana]

They are closest to the original Aboriginal North Indians and African tribals who migrated into India before IVC.

They were only Aryanized or Hinduisd in modern times by Brahmin migrants from North mostly Kashmir as noted by many historians that they mostly followed animistic religion and had no caste system.

This was the main reason they easily converted to Islam because Brahmin migrants considered them low caste people.

Very interesting, thanks for your input. From what I understand, majority of south asian muslims come from low caste background ?

[Pandit]

Very interesting, thanks for your input. From what I understand, majority of south asian muslims come from low caste background ?

Yep. All over Indian subcontinent most of people who followed religion other than Hindism, Jainism are mostly converts from low caste.

Buddhism = started by proud kshatriya prince who claimed that all other Buddha's will take birth in only pure brahmin or kshatriya families, as he was kshatriya next Buddha will take birth in brahmin family. He even claimed that on Earth brahmins and kshatriya are superior to others.

Most of followers were Sudras and untouchable as kshatriya and brahmin were secure in Vedic faith and had little interest in leaving religion of their forefathers.

Jainism = Mostly Vaishya rich people and some kshatriyas, over all very high class religion, closest to upper caste Hindus.

Hindism = minority founders brahmins+Kshatriya+Vaishya forms something like 10/15% while rest are gypsy, Dalit, tribal and sudra people who got Aryanized by migrating brahmins.

Kshatriya conquered new lands, viaishyas moved in for business, Kings invited brahmins to turn conquered lands into Arya-desa/country.

Islam = mostly gypsy(jat/Gujjar), Ahir, Dalits, Sudra, untouchables with 0.5% of Non Indian migrants and upper caste convert mix(minority Vaishya, Rajput, rarely a brahmin).

These people adopted either Rajput or Brahmin surnames beside ME ones to hide their low caste origin.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

My family are from Bangladesh. Though we originally settled in Bengal in the 1800s.

We don't look typically Bangladeshi or even Sylheti, but I've seen quite a few Sylhetis that are as fair as any Kashmiri.
I think we're more diverse than a lot of people here make out. There was a lot of migration within South Asia, under the Mughals and the British.

[Ketchup]

South Indians with some excess ASI.

Who the hell liked this literal bs lmao it's literally not even correct scientifically.

Bangladeshis have lower South Asian HG/AASI not excess and higher Steppe Aryan than South Indians genetically. Bangladeshis get like 10-15% Steppe usually while South Indians get none usually. This is even though Banglas are only around 85% South Asian which means before mixing with the 15% Tibeto-Burman group, Banglas had higher Steppe than the 10-15% that we normally get. So Banglas pre-mixing would have 12-17% Steppe compared to 10-15% now meaning the base population was also different from South Indians, with significant Steppe and lower AASI.

Banglas definitely score lower AASI and higher Steppe than South Indians, not excess AASI.

[Eurafricanid]

Who the hell liked this literal bs lmao it's literally not even correct scientifically.

Bangladeshis have lower South Asian HG/AASI not excess and higher Steppe Aryan than South Indians genetically. Bangladeshis get like 10-15% Steppe usually while South Indians get none usually. This is even though Banglas are only around 85% South Asian which means before mixing with the 15% Tibeto-Burman group, Banglas had higher Steppe than the 10-15% that we normally get. So Banglas pre-mixing would have 12-17% Steppe compared to 10-15% now meaning the base population was also different from South Indians.

Banglas definitely score lower AASI and higher Steppe than South Indians, not excess AASI

https://i.imgur.com/v6NNEn6.png

[Ketchup]

https://i.imgur.com/v6NNEn6.png

Thanks. For Steppe, you gotta generally use Sintashta or Srubnaya. I think there's some other stuff missing because Telugus don't get 12% Steppe, it's something to do with ancient Ancestral North Eurasian stuff which they have a lot of along with Tamils from their very high Indus Valley ancestry so it's being misattributed to Yamnaya or something when it should be going to "Farmer" or Indus Valley farmer. AASI values for Banglas are I think 34-41% generally, it might be higher here due to the Asian proxies but with more expansive modelling, the Asian is 15%. G25 has issues with AASI and Asian, it's been a thing for a while, the Onge/Asian matrix seems flawed. You can run different South Asian groups with Onge-Steppe-IVC and they'll get values that are concordant with studies but for Bangladeshis and groups with Asian, it becomes wonky because the Onge on g25 absorbs Asian. Range for Banglas seem to be 35-40% and for the Southern Indians it's like 45-50% AASI

Here's some values using the Mehrgarh calc and they're a bit more accurate as they have better AASI samples, Asian samples and account for the extra Tutkaulian/ANE from IVC
125266