Do Iran Neolithic farmers pheno look like Baloch, Brahui or they look like swarthy ethnikid wogs?

[Maguzanci]

What does the Iran Neolithic Farming invaders who massively genetically influenced South Asia look like? Phenotypically, do they look like ethnikid swarthy Orientalid Med wogs or do they look more like the Baloch, Brahui?

[Thambi]

probably baloch brahui. they're the closest popuations to iran neolithic farmers living today. They get about 70% baloch/iran_n

[Pandit]

Pure Caucasoids but dark skinned.

I don't know why they call them Iranian Neolithic migrants when in reality they migrated from Syria-Iraq region just like other Neolithics who migrated to west.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Diffusion_of_agriculture_from_the_Fertile_Crescent _after_9000_BC.jpg

[Maguzanci]

probably baloch brahui. they're the closest popuations to iran neolithic farmers living today. They get about 70% baloch/iran_n

Yeah Iran Neo farmers pheno look much more like Baloch and Brahui make more sense than them looking like MENAs or swarthy looking Mediterraneans.

And the rest of their DNA is 15-16% Steppe ancestry and small amounts of AASI?

[Maguzanci]

Pure Caucasoids but dark skinned.

I don't know why they call them Iranian Neolithic migrants when in reality they migrated from Syria-Iraq region just like other Neolithics who migrated to west.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Diffusion_of_agriculture_from_the_Fertile_Crescent _after_9000_BC.jpg

That make sense. Yeah they actually immigrate from around Iraq Syria area. What modern pop do you think they look like?

[Thambi]

Yeah Iran Neo farmers pheno look much more like Baloch and Brahui make more sense than them looking like MENAs or swarthy looking Mediterraneans.

And the rest of their DNA is 15-16% Steppe ancestry and minor AASI?

yeah and some arab too

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 2.1469,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 47.5,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 22.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 16.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"BedouinB": 4.17,

[Kamal900]

yeah and some arab too

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 2.1469,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 47.5,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 22.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 16.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"BedouinB": 4.17,

Which I think intermarried and assimilated to them during the early ethnogenesis of the Balochi people?

[Maguzanci]

yeah and some arab too

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 2.1469,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 47.5,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 22.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 16.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"BedouinB": 4.17,

So I guess we can safely assured that Iran Neolithic Farmers phenotypically look nothing like or are genetically very different from MENAs or Mediterranean? I really hope that is the case so that there would not be stupid fights between South Asians and MENAs such as Iranids, MENAs or Meds gave birth to/ are the great forefathers of the South Asian race.

Its interesting because I once remembered people told me that the Baloch/Brahui have almost zero Steppe ancestry. I guess they were using Admixture calculators then for refererrence. Looks like they were wrong. Baloch and Brahui have higher Steppe ancestry than expected.

[Kamal900]

So I guess we can safely assured that Iran Neolithic Farmers phenotypically look nothing like or are genetically very different from MENAs or Mediterranean? I really hope that is the case there would not be stupid flame wars between South Asians and MENAs such as Iranids or West Asians gave birth to the South Asian race.

Its interesting because I once remembered people told me that the Baloch/Brahui have almost zero Steppe ancestry. I guess they were using Admixture calculators then for refererrence. Looks like they were wrong. Baloch and Brahui have higher Steppe ancestry than expected.

Any MENA that says that needs a smack right across the face. I have far more liking for South Asians than other "MENAs" and so on. Yes, you can be assured that they most likely resembled those who are genetically the closest to them.

[Thambi]

Which I think intermarried and assimilated to them during the early ethnogenesis of the Balochi people?

yeah probably. I think its during the arab empire expansion/slave trade era.

[Borealis]

yeah probably. I think its during the arab empire expansion/slave trade era.
No. They just have high ANF. Not arab related

[Thambi]

No. They just have high ANF. Not arab related

anf is anatolian right? they get more sw asian affinity though compared to pashtuns

[Pandit]

That make sense. Yeah they actually immigrate from around Iraq Syria area. What modern pop do you think they look like?

In my opinion people who live in those regions are most likely closest to original Neolithic farmers who migrated to India.

[Pandit]

Y dna of these farmers was J so it's safe to assume that J udna of Hindu Indians (unlike Muslims) is not recent but result of this old Neolithic migration.

[Thambi]

No. They just have high ANF. Not arab related

ok nvm they get both anf and bedouin affinity. the arab came in through modern interactions while the ANF is ancient. They get higher steppe now

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 1.5042,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 19.17,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5.83,
"BedouinA": 4.17,
"Han": 0.83,

"Brahui:Average",
"fit": 1.5487,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 48.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 20.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 10,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5.83,
"BedouinA": 3.33,
"Han": 0.83,

Pashtuns and tajiks get no ANF and arab, but they do get east asian.

"Pashtun:Average",
"fit": 0.6432,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 52.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 26.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 13.33,
"Han": 4.17,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0

"Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 0.8649,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 43.33,
"Han": 7.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 0,

[Borealis]

anf is anatolian right? they get more sw asian affinity though compared to pashtuns

Actually they have a bit Levant N too but it’s not from Bedouin’s iiirc

[lameduck]

So I guess we can safely assured that Iran Neolithic Farmers phenotypically look nothing like or are genetically very different from MENAs or Mediterranean? I really hope that is the case so that there would not be stupid fights between South Asians and MENAs such as Iranids, MENAs or Meds gave birth to/ are the great forefathers of the South Asian race.

Its interesting because I once remembered people told me that the Baloch/Brahui have almost zero Steppe ancestry. I guess they were using Admixture calculators then for refererrence. Looks like they were wrong. Baloch and Brahui have higher Steppe ancestry than expected.

I have been following MENA-South Asian stuff for some times now , its actually Iranian who started trolling South Asians by denying/claiming their diversity , many Iranians also used to have unhealthy obsession with claiming Bollywood stars when they have nothing to do with Iran. Now it has mostly stopped.

[Pahli]

Iran_N = Shit ton of CHG + little AASI, they are closest to Balochs / Brahuis, but I'd reckon they still would be a bit different, according to some calculators they reach up to 80% West Asian / CHG and anywhere between 10 - 20% South Asian admix.

Most Iran_N samples had dark skin tho, and I've seen pictures of baloch and brahui with both light and very dark skin, something changed since then.

[Kamal900]

Iran_N = Shit ton of CHG + little AASI, they are closest to Balochs / Brahuis, but I'd reckon they still would be a bit different, according to some calculators they reach up to 80% West Asian / CHG and anywhere between 10 - 20% South Asian admix.

Welcome back to hell, my friend.

[Pahli]

Welcome back to hell, my friend.

Just here once in a while, ain't gonna be permanent

[Pandit]

I have been following MENA-South Asian stuff for some times now , its actually Iranian who started trolling South Asians by denying/claiming their diversity , many Iranians also used to have unhealthy obsession with claiming Bollywood stars when they have nothing to do with Iran. Now it has mostly stopped.

It's natural in their culture due to inferiority complex they have towards whites I guess.nose job and hair eying is also very popular among Iranians to get more europoid look as far as I know.

I know some Iranians in NJ who have done same thing, one of the girl in our wolfpack was Iranian, Persian who started using platinum Blond hair color after she turned 16ish.

Our "white" friends used to mock her behind her back aayi g she's a wannabe, "Pure Aryan" etc because she had light brown skin that looked out of place with blond hair.

[Pahli]

It's natural in their culture due to inferiority complex they have towards whites I guess.nose job and hair eying is also very popular among Iranians to get more europoid look as far as I know.

I know some Iranians in NJ who have done same thing, one of the girl in our wolfpack was Iranian, Persian who started using platinum Blond hair color after she turned 16ish.

Our "white" friends used to mock her behind her back aayi g she's a wannabe, "Pure Aryan" etc because she had light brown skin that looked out of place with blond hair.

Kind of true, kind of not. Its a Western style afaik which reached Iran, bleaching hair isn't uncommon in the Middle East at all, but I wonder why Indians bleach their skin :picard1:

I'm really not sure if its related to being "Aryan" as ancient Aryans weren't all blonde or ginger :thumb001:

[lameduck]

Kind of true, kind of not. Its a Western style afaik which reached Iran, bleaching hair isn't uncommon in the Middle East at all, but I wonder why Indians bleach their skin :picard1:

I'm really not sure if its related to being "Aryan" as ancient Aryans weren't all blonde or ginger :thumb001:

many upper class paki women also dye their hair lol , I think it is just fashion. Iran has bigger middle class than Pakistan with lot more money(because of oil) so obviously this will be more common there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkMmYbvcERE

[Thambi]

It's natural in their culture due to inferiority complex they have towards whites I guess.nose job and hair eying is also very popular among Iranians to get more europoid look as far as I know.

I know some Iranians in NJ who have done same thing, one of the girl in our wolfpack was Iranian, Persian who started using platinum Blond hair color after she turned 16ish.

Our "white" friends used to mock her behind her back aayi g she's a wannabe, "Pure Aryan" etc because she had light brown skin that looked out of place with blond hair.

was this necessary? and many asians, latinas, and even black women dye their hair blonde. It doesnt mean they're trying to be euro. Or if it indeed does indicate being euro, then its widespread and its not exclusive to iranians. Maybe its just a trend across the globe in general to dye the hair that way. people can experiment with their hair lol. who are you to restrict them?

[lameduck]

It's natural in their culture due to inferiority complex they have towards whites I guess.nose job and hair eying is also very popular among Iranians to get more europoid look as far as I know.

I know some Iranians in NJ who have done same thing, one of the girl in our wolfpack was Iranian, Persian who started using platinum Blond hair color after she turned 16ish.

Our "white" friends used to mock her behind her back aayi g she's a wannabe, "Pure Aryan" etc because she had light brown skin that looked out of place with blond hair.

not in good taste imo

[Mikael19]

IBS list for Iran_N

Makrani 65.732%
Brahui 65.714%
Iranian 65.697%
Balochi 65.696%
Abkhasian 65.596%
Georgian 65.568%
Iranian_Bandari 65.561%
Assyrian 65.529%
Kalash 65.521%
Pathan 65.479%
GujaratiA 65.447%
Sindhi 65.445%
Adygei 65.427%
Chechen 65.423%
Lebanese_Christian 65.392%
Lebanese_Muslim 65.338%
Pashtun_Afghan 65.295%
Azeri 65.289%
Burusho 65.274%
Cypriot 65.271%
GujaratiB 65.270%
GujaratiC 65.217%
GujaratiD 65.193%
Lebanese 65.156%
Saudi 65.155%
Punjabi 65.119%
Greek 65.092%
Jordanian 65.085%
Bulgarian 65.064%
BedouinB 65.024%
Yemeni 64.838%
Egyptian 64.812%
Ju_hoan_North 62.416%

[lameduck]

IBS list for Iran_N

Makrani 65.732%
Brahui 65.714%
Iranian 65.697%
Balochi 65.696%
Abkhasian 65.596%
Georgian 65.568%
Iranian_Bandari 65.561%
Assyrian 65.529%
Kalash 65.521%
Pathan 65.479%
GujaratiA 65.447%
Sindhi 65.445%
Adygei 65.427%
Chechen 65.423%
Lebanese_Christian 65.392%
Lebanese_Muslim 65.338%
Pashtun_Afghan 65.295%
Azeri 65.289%
Burusho 65.274%
Cypriot 65.271%
GujaratiB 65.270%
GujaratiC 65.217%
GujaratiD 65.193%
Lebanese 65.156%
Saudi 65.155%
Punjabi 65.119%
Greek 65.092%
Jordanian 65.085%
Bulgarian 65.064%
BedouinB 65.024%
Yemeni 64.838%
Egyptian 64.812%
Ju_hoan_North 62.416%

these Punjabis seem more ASI shifted , there are some Punjabi tribes like arain/Gujjers who are on par with Sindhis when it come to iran neo.

[Mikael19]

these Punjabis seem more ASI shifted , there are some Punjabi tribes like arain/Gujjers who are on par with Sindhis when it come to iran neo.

I find it interesting how the Lebanese are closer to Iran_n than pashtuns from afghanistan

[Thambi]

these Punjabis seem more ASI shifted , there are some Punjabi tribes like arain/Gujjers who are on par with Sindhis when it come to iran neo.

both punjabis and sindhis literally have the same percentages lol

[lameduck]

I find it interesting how the Lebanese are closer to Iran_n than pashtuns from afghanistan

yeah also I think all Pashtuns haven't been tested yet , I have seen no result for Quetta Pashtuns, also there is no result for Pashtuns in Chitral and Gilgit.

[Mikael19]

ok nvm they get both anf and bedouin affinity. the arab came in through modern interactions while the ANF is ancient. They get higher steppe now

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 1.5042,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 19.17,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5.83,
"BedouinA": 4.17,
"Han": 0.83,

"Brahui:Average",
"fit": 1.5487,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 48.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 20.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 10,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5.83,
"BedouinA": 3.33,
"Han": 0.83,

Pashtuns and tajiks get no ANF and arab, but they do get east asian.

"Pashtun:Average",
"fit": 0.6432,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 52.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 26.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 13.33,
"Han": 4.17,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0

"Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 0.8649,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 43.33,
"Han": 7.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 0,

Sindhi

46.05% Iran_N + 3.45% Armenia_ChL/EBA
16.00% Steppe_MLBA + 9.10% Srubnaya_outlier + 3.40% Andronovo_outlier
22.00% ASI

Karlani Pashtun, Central Highlands

28.40% Iran_N + 23.05% Armenia_ChL/EBA
22.65% Steppe_MLBA + 9.95% Srubnaya_outlier + 3.00% Andronovo_outlier
10.20% ASI
2.75% Mongola

Tajik_Ishkashim

24.1% Iran_N + 19.2% Armenia_ChL/EBA
22.4% Steppe_MLBA + 19.5% Srubnaya_outlier + 1.2% Scythian_Pazyryk
9.2% ASI
4.4% Mongola

Armenia chl could anatolia barcin?

[Mikael19]

yeah also I think all Pashtuns haven't been tested yet , I have seen no result for Quetta Pashtuns, also there is no result for Pashtuns in Chitral and Gilgit.

Pashtuns from quetta would be probably the same with southern Pashtuns from afghanistan, whereas Pashtuns from gilgit similar to Pashtuns from kunar, laghman, nuristan etc.

[lameduck]

Pashtuns from quetta would be probably the same with southern Pashtuns from afghanistan, whereas Pashtuns from gilgit similar to Pashtuns from kunar, laghman, nuristan etc.

Also from what I have seen urban Pashtuns are darker , recently some Pashtuns from rural Dir district have settled around my neighborhood and even this guy is not an anomaly among them.

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4473/36854803924_9cca22c720_b.jpg

[Mikael19]

Also from what I have seen urban Pashtuns are darker , recently some Pashtuns from rural Dir district have settled around my neighborhood and even this guy is not an anomaly among them.

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4473/36854803924_9cca22c720_b.jpg

Most Afghans let alone Pashtuns live in rural areas haha, I think Afghanistan is like 80% rural and only 20% urban. Anyways only way i could figure why that's the case pretty much every where in Europe, west Asia, central Asia etc is because urban areas are more diverse, dominant genes prevail more compared to lighter genes popping up more in rural communities, where population is small.

[Truth Preacher]

yeah also I think all Pashtuns haven't been tested yet , I have seen no result for Quetta Pashtuns, also there is no result for Pashtuns in Chitral and Gilgit.

What about Niazi and Tareen from West Punjab ?

[lameduck]

What about Niazi and Tareen from West Punjab ?

Yeah never seen a Niazi result but Khana on genica has a Seraiki tareen result

[Maguzanci]

Iran_N = Shit ton of CHG + little AASI, they are closest to Balochs / Brahuis, but I'd reckon they still would be a bit different, according to some calculators they reach up to 80% West Asian / CHG and anywhere between 10 - 20% South Asian admix.

Most Iran_N samples had dark skin tho, and I've seen pictures of baloch and brahui with both light and very dark skin, something changed since then.

I see. So they look nothing like or genetically different from Iranians or other MENAs?

[Mikael19]

I see. So they look nothing like or genetically different from Iranians or other MENAs?

What are you trying to imply? I am confused.

[Thambi]

Sindhi

46.05% Iran_N + 3.45% Armenia_ChL/EBA
16.00% Steppe_MLBA + 9.10% Srubnaya_outlier + 3.40% Andronovo_outlier
22.00% ASI

Karlani Pashtun, Central Highlands

28.40% Iran_N + 23.05% Armenia_ChL/EBA
22.65% Steppe_MLBA + 9.95% Srubnaya_outlier + 3.00% Andronovo_outlier
10.20% ASI
2.75% Mongola

Tajik_Ishkashim

24.1% Iran_N + 19.2% Armenia_ChL/EBA
22.4% Steppe_MLBA + 19.5% Srubnaya_outlier + 1.2% Scythian_Pazyryk
9.2% ASI
4.4% Mongola

Armenia chl could anatolia barcin?

no they're not the same.

I took out gonur and just used armenia chl and ganj dareh. fit isnt too bad. The steppe seems off though. Balochi sample gets no armenian chl.

"Pashtun:Average",
"fit": 1.3538,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 39.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 30.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 15,
"ARM_Areni_C": 10.83,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 1.5175,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 23.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 6.67,
"Levant_Natufian": 2.5,
"Han": 0.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,

"Sindhi:Average",
"fit": 1.8958,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 45,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 23.33,
"ARM_Areni_C": 5,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

[Maguzanci]

What are you trying to imply? I am confused.

I am not implying anything. I am asking whether phenotypically would they look or are genetically different from modern day Iranians and other MENAs or not.

I really hope that is not the case as I do not want a shitstorm to start with MENAs claiming that they gave birth/are the great founders of the South Asian race.

[Mikael19]

no they're not the same.

I took out gonur and just used armenia chl and ganj dareh. fit isnt too bad. The steppe seems off though. Balochi sample gets no armenian chl.

"Pashtun:Average",
"fit": 1.3538,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 39.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 30.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 15,
"ARM_Areni_C": 10.83,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 1.5175,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 23.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 6.67,
"Levant_Natufian": 2.5,
"Han": 0.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,

"Sindhi:Average",
"fit": 1.8958,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 45,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 23.33,
"ARM_Areni_C": 5,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

ASI increases by 5 with Pashtuns and only 1 percent with Sindhis. What is gonur?

[Maguzanci]

IBS list for Iran_N

Makrani 65.732%
Brahui 65.714%
Iranian 65.697%
Balochi 65.696%
Abkhasian 65.596%
Georgian 65.568%
Iranian_Bandari 65.561%
Assyrian 65.529%
Kalash 65.521%
Pathan 65.479%
GujaratiA 65.447%
Sindhi 65.445%
Adygei 65.427%
Chechen 65.423%
Lebanese_Christian 65.392%
Lebanese_Muslim 65.338%
Pashtun_Afghan 65.295%
Azeri 65.289%
Burusho 65.274%
Cypriot 65.271%
GujaratiB 65.270%
GujaratiC 65.217%
GujaratiD 65.193%
Lebanese 65.156%
Saudi 65.155%
Punjabi 65.119%
Greek 65.092%
Jordanian 65.085%
Bulgarian 65.064%
BedouinB 65.024%
Yemeni 64.838%
Egyptian 64.812%
Ju_hoan_North 62.416%

Uh oh. This is not a good sign.

[Thambi]

ASI increases by 5 with Pashtuns and only 1 percent with Sindhis. What is gonur?

gonur is neolithic sample from turkmenistan. It's not too far off from Ganj dareh, which is neolithic from iran. I really dont know why but gonur works as a better fit than ganj dareh for most south asian/pashtun/tajik populations.

[Mikael19]

gonur is neolithic sample from turkmenistan. It's not too far off from Ganj dareh, which is neolithic from iran. I really dont know why but gonur works as a better fit than ganj dareh for most south asian/pashtun/tajik populations.

Sein suggested to run individual Pashtuns when it comes to them, as the average seems off. Also the sindhis too.

[Mikael19]

Uh oh. This is not a good sign.

Yep

[Maguzanci]

no they're not the same.

I took out gonur and just used armenia chl and ganj dareh. fit isnt too bad. The steppe seems off though. Balochi sample gets no armenian chl.

"Pashtun:Average",
"fit": 1.3538,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 39.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 30.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 15,
"ARM_Areni_C": 10.83,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Balochi:Average",
"fit": 1.5175,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 23.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 6.67,
"Levant_Natufian": 2.5,
"Han": 0.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,

"Sindhi:Average",
"fit": 1.8958,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 45,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 23.33,
"ARM_Areni_C": 5,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

The Baloch and Brahui are literally the reversed or the opposite/polar version of the Mundas especially the Bonda and Juang lol.

[Oghuz]

was this necessary? and many asians, latinas, and even black women dye their hair blonde. It doesnt mean they're trying to be euro. Or if it indeed does indicate being euro, then its widespread and its not exclusive to iranians. Maybe its just a trend across the globe in general to dye the hair that way. people can experiment with their hair lol. who are you to restrict them?

This person is a massive hatred filled troll. There are many good Indian posters here including you and I respect them.

[Thambi]

Sein suggested to run individual Pashtuns when it comes to them, as the average seems off. Also the sindhis too.

"Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.472,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 31.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 15.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 10.83,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 2.3995,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 38.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"ARM_Areni_C": 6.67,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Sindhi:HGDP00169",
"fit": 2.9474,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 45,
"Simulated_AASI": 27.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 3.33,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

[lameduck]

This person is a massive hatred filled troll. There are many good Indian posters here including you and I respect them.

yeah you , Negah and Pahli are also really good. Now Genetic science has really progressed a lot and this will result to end of trolls.

[Oghuz]

yeah you , Negah and Pahli are also really good. Now Genetic science has really progressed a lot and this will result to end of trolls.

Yes. This is internet and anyone can blabber any crap and get away with it. These games have been played many times before.

As for the topic,

Considering the high CHG West Asian % in INF, I would assume Iranian Neolithic Farmers to look like Modern day Baloch Brauhi people. Gracilised Southern Iranians and Irano Afghans.

Kinda like these men. These farmers gave rise to IVC.

https://legacy.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p15356.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4015/4577328695_586a8e4fe7.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PjAhEjv5foo/mqdefault.jpg

[Oghuz]

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvr4K9YY/ace.jpg

[Mikael19]

"Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.472,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 31.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 15.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 10.83,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 2.3995,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 38.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"ARM_Areni_C": 6.67,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Sindhi:HGDP00169",
"fit": 2.9474,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 45,
"Simulated_AASI": 27.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 3.33,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

Rukha is almost 40% sinashta wow. Can you do one for surbakhun, a Southern pashtun durrani? Thanks bro

[Thambi]

Rukha is almost 40% sinashta wow. Can you do one for surbakhun, a Southern pashtun durrani? Thanks bro

surbakhun doesnt get much steppe actually. less than mingle. She gets more armenian Chl pull though. I think rukha is partially Tajik. On AG his profile says tajik-pashtun so thats probably why he's so steppe shifted compared to mingle and surbakhun.

"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser",
"fit": 2.21,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 29.17,
"ARM_Areni_C": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

[lameduck]

surbakhun doesnt get much steppe actually. less than mingle. She gets more armenian Chl pull though. I think rukha is partially Tajik. On AG his profile says tajik-pashtun so thats probably why he's so steppe shifted compared to mingle and surbakhun.

"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser",
"fit": 2.21,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 29.17,
"ARM_Areni_C": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

can you do for chitralis?

[Mikael19]

surbakhun doesnt get much steppe actually. less than mingle. She gets more armenian Chl pull though. I think rukha is partially Tajik. On AG his profile says tajik-pashtun so thats probably why he's so steppe shifted compared to mingle and surbakhun.

"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser",
"fit": 2.21,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 29.17,
"ARM_Areni_C": 15.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

Yep rukha is half panjsheri tajik. Actually, Pashtuns and Tajiks both seem to be very similar( from afghanistan), I have seen a pure panjsheri Tajiks results and it is almost identical to many Pashtuns. I haven't seen one yet in the G25 run though.

[Thambi]

can you do for chitralis?

"Chitrali_TanoliPashtun:Average", (do you know who this is on AG?) this is the only chitrali sample available. Seems to score similarly to Rukha except with more AASI and less armenian chl.
"fit": 2.3991,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 39.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 38.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 14.17,
"Han": 5,
"ARM_Areni_C": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

[Thambi]

Yep rukha is half panjsheri tajik. Actually, Pashtuns and Tajiks both seem to be very similar( from afghanistan), I have seen a pure panjsheri Tajiks results and it is almost identical to many Pashtuns. I haven't seen one yet in the G25 run though.

bro there seems to be something wrong with using ganj dareh. it really exaggerates steppe. I think using gonur is better. I'm south indian middle caste. i should not get steppe at all but i end up with 14% steppe when i use ganj dareh and armenia chl. I'll go back to gonur. it seems more realistic. Fits are better as well.

"Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 2.0145,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 38.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 37.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 23.33,
"Han": 0.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Reddy:Average", (Mine)
"fit": 2.8806,
"Simulated_AASI": 45,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 14.17,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

Using gonur and no ganjdareh/armenia chl

"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser",
"fit": 1.5687,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 61.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 22.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 7.5,
"Han": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 1.3496,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 59.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 27.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.2925,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 58.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 14.17,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

"Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 1.8039,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 52.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
"Simulated_AASI": 21.67,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Reddy:Average",
"fit": 2.7191,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 54.17,
"Simulated_AASI": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

[Mikael19]

bro there seems to be something wrong with using ganj dareh. it really exaggerates steppe. I think using gonur is better. I'm south indian middle caste. i should not get steppe at all but i end up with 14% steppe when i use ganj dareh and armenia chl. I'll go back to gonur. it seems more realistic. Fits are better as well.

"Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 2.0145,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 38.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 37.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 23.33,
"Han": 0.83,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Reddy:Average", (Mine)
"fit": 2.8806,
"Simulated_AASI": 45,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N": 40.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 14.17,
"ARM_Areni_C": 0,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

Using gonur and no ganjdareh/armenia chl

"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser",
"fit": 1.5687,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 61.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 22.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 7.5,
"Han": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 1.3496,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 59.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 27.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 9.17,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.2925,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 58.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 14.17,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

"Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 1.8039,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 52.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
"Simulated_AASI": 21.67,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0,

"Reddy:Average",
"fit": 2.7191,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 54.17,
"Simulated_AASI": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"BedouinA": 0,
"Han": 0,
"Levant_Natufian": 0

I was just about to make a new country called steppestan with sinashta being the capital. Ruined all my plans bro.

[Pahli]

Can someone run my kit through these calculators, I'll pm my kit

Try using Kashkarchi_BA, its more recent than Sintashta and probably a better fit

Remember that gonur had some small EHG / Siberian_HG input, so its going to cover up some of the Steppe.

[Oghuz]

Can someone run my kit through these calculators, I'll pm my kit

Try using Kashkarchi_BA, its more recent than Sintashta and probably a better fit

Remember that gonur had some small EHG / Siberian_HG input, so its going to cover up some of the Steppe.

Azizam, Do you agree with this map ? Azizam, Do you agree with this map ?

It indicates that Iranian neolithic farmers gave rise directly to Indus Valley Civilisation and and Khvalynsk culture (picking up more CHG along the way).


https://i.postimg.cc/Vvr4K9YY/ace.jpg

[Oghuz]

del

[Pahli]

Yeah, this is more or less accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/IPzOZDg.jpg

Ran free nmonte, doesn't look too bad

[Oghuz]

Yeah, this is more or less accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/IPzOZDg.jpg

Ran free nmonte, doesn't look too bad

Merci Rafigham.

I read a paper abstract that some proportion of CHG in Yamnaya came from its precedessor Khvalynsk which itself recieved CHG and Iran_N like how this map suggests. Do you agree with that ?

[Pahli]

Merci Rafigham.

I read a paper abstract that some proportion of CHG in Yamnaya came from its precedessor Khvalynsk which itself recieved CHG and Iran_N like how this map suggests. Do you agree with that ?

I'm not even sure what they had, but it must have been some Iran_N / CHG related, but the population they mixed with was probably a bit diverse, as some Steppe samples have more Gedrosian than others, one sample from Sintashta even has Iranian_chalcholithic admixture, as it comes out as 80% Baltic + 20% Kurd / Iranian like.

[Pahli]

- double post, del -

[Pandit]

not in good taste imo

Just sharing what I saw, nothing personal.

[Pandit]

Kind of true, kind of not. Its a Western style afaik which reached Iran, bleaching hair isn't uncommon in the Middle East at all, but I wonder why Indians bleach their skin :picard1:

I'm really not sure if its related to being "Aryan" as ancient Aryans weren't all blonde or ginger :thumb001:

They do that because white skin is considered sign of high birth or nobility here.

A guy who looks like me is considered just a guest here but a native born with light eyes is considered very Nobel there.

And Aryans were indeed Nordics.

[Kyp]

They do that because white skin is considered sign of high birth or nobility here.

A guy who looks like me is considered just a guest here but a native born with light eyes is considered very Nobel there.

And Aryans were indeed Nordics.

Proto-Iranians were nordics. Aryans that went into the iranian plateau definetly can not be described as nordics. I don't know about the aryans that went into India.

[Regnera]

What's an "Ethnikid" phenotype?Never heard of it.

[Token]

I'm not even sure what they had, but it must have been some Iran_N / CHG related, but the population they mixed with was probably a bit diverse, as some Steppe samples have more Gedrosian than others, one sample from Sintashta even has Iranian_chalcholithic admixture, as it comes out as 80% Baltic + 20% Kurd / Iranian like.

None of the Sintashta samples had Iranian Chalcolithic admixture. The Kurdish is to compensate for excess CHG derived from their steppe ancestry to the exclusion of Balts. Sintashta had quite more steppe than modern day Balts.

[Token]

Can someone run my kit through these calculators, I'll pm my kit

Try using Kashkarchi_BA, its more recent than Sintashta and probably a better fit

Remember that gonur had some small EHG / Siberian_HG input, so its going to cover up some of the Steppe.
No, it is not going to cover some of the steppe, it is going to cover the WSHG admixture that most Iranians have. When you don't deal with this admixture with some proper reference the steppe goes up and the fit naturally worsen.

[21993]

Like Irano-Afghan race, I guess...

[Thambi]

Can someone run my kit through these calculators, I'll pm my kit

Try using Kashkarchi_BA, its more recent than Sintashta and probably a better fit

Remember that gonur had some small EHG / Siberian_HG input, so its going to cover up some of the Steppe.

It seems like gonur captures some steppe and asi as well thats probably why gonur works really well for south asian and even afghan populations. but when i take out gonur for south asian/afghans, the fits are worse and it inflates steppe for every group, including south indians. i usually get no euro at all but i get 14% when i take out gonur and use ganj dareh. Not sure why.

I think sintashta works better than kashkarchi based on the modelling for iranians. I took your advice on taking out gonur though and used ganj dareh. yeah the fit looks quite well actually for iranians. I added armenian chl and anatolian barcin.

Btw you have to get coordinates from davidski to use these models. its not gedmatch based. It was about 12 bucks iirc.

Iranian populations
https://i.imgur.com/KHBn8sf.png

[The One]

I’m assuming probably balochis

[Babak]

It's natural in their culture due to inferiority complex they have towards whites I guess.nose job and hair eying is also very popular among Iranians to get more europoid look as far as I know.

I know some Iranians in NJ who have done same thing, one of the girl in our wolfpack was Iranian, Persian who started using platinum Blond hair color after she turned 16ish.

Our "white" friends used to mock her behind her back aayi g she's a wannabe, "Pure Aryan" etc because she had light brown skin that looked out of place with blond hair.

Lol let's not get into that shit bro. I can say a shit ton about Indians like I did in the past here and I don't have a problem with doing it.

[Oghuz]

Lol let's not get into that shit bro. I can say a shit ton about Indians like I did in the past here and I don't have a problem with doing it.

Yes we can. I did not do it myself because it will go against many other friendly and sensible Indian posters here.

[Oghuz]

I’m assuming probably balochis

More or Less. Look at the people I posted in this thread before.

Gracile Irano Afghan type.

[lameduck]

some Baloch footballers
https://scontent.flhe3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18486274_1589085341101632_3544326080337450316_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.flhe3-1.fna&oh=09322e802509b079c9f299897d099189&oe=5D375632

https://scontent.flhe3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/30443181_1950658454944317_3534696937158606848_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.flhe3-1.fna&oh=8827d020258faefdac5bc1cb8b6e67b2&oe=5D2DAA8B

[Oghuz]

some Baloch footballers
https://scontent.flhe3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/18486274_1589085341101632_3544326080337450316_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.flhe3-1.fna&oh=09322e802509b079c9f299897d099189&oe=5D375632

https://scontent.flhe3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/30443181_1950658454944317_3534696937158606848_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.flhe3-1.fna&oh=8827d020258faefdac5bc1cb8b6e67b2&oe=5D2DAA8B

They are too much modern time Irano Afghans, Iranids, Irano meds influenced. Some are Indids mixed.

Iranian neolithic farmers were heavily CHG. I would assume CHG to be gracile looking.

[Joachim]

What does the Iran Neolithic Farming invaders who massively genetically influenced South Asia look like? Phenotypically, do they look like ethnikid swarthy Orientalid Med wogs or do they look more like the Baloch, Brahui?

Old threat but bump
They looked very different from wogs and from the middle east look which people wrongly stereotype(that look comes from natufians and Barcin likely,both being dzudzuana (west eurasian whg+basal derived)

For iran_n and iran_hg(IHG) they were the cousins of chg

And there's gerogians who are majorly chg that look like this

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1668/20/1668207070695004.jpg

[Avicenna]

Old threat but bump
They looked very different from wogs and from the middle east look which people wrongly stereotype(that look comes from natufians and Barcin likely,both being dzudzuana (west eurasian whg+basal derived)

For iran_n and iran_hg(IHG) they were the cousins of chg

And there's gerogians who are majorly chg that look like this

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1668/20/1668207070695004.jpg

No way did they look that light . If that was the case gbeb south Asians would not have been as dark as they are if Iran_N looked like that^. Although Georgians are quite close to Iran Chalcolithic and less so Iran_N , this doesn't necessarily mean Iran_N looked like that ^.

[thisismyaccount]

Iran n likely didnt look like balochs, since they have steppe + sahg, and werent even purely Iran n (IVC + native SE iranian with some anciet gulf admix, then mixed with yaz type pastoralists. Theyre basically 50-70% ivc and local southeast iranian + 50-30% yaz type)

Apparently based on dna predictions, some neolithic iranians were very dark, others light. And iranians/kurds themselves Can be quite dark without ANY IVC at all. So i guess they could range from dark as modern nw South asians to regular nw asians, but look quite caucasiod.

But we have no real evidence what they looked like as whole. Based on artistic depictions, all of Them dressed like harappans, from Iran to central asia to South asia

[Petalpusher]

Apparently this need to be posted over and over, it was also since then demonstrated in countless other studies:

https://i.postimg.cc/7LP8Q4hs/f2.png


Iran neolithic is the closest to Basal Eurasian and by quite a margin, making in comparison both the Steppe that got into Europe "Steppe EMBA" and the early neolithic farmers "Europe_EN" both as removed from basal, compared to Iran Neolithic. They surely didn't look like Georgians, as even Armenians, Levant_N and Natufians were less basal than Iran_N. It's by a longshot the most genuinely middle eastern shifted thing you can score as European. Some of it was brought by Yamnaya like ancestry, and in the places in Europe with a lot of "East med" likely came on it's own as well around the time of Bronze Age collapse events.

[Zevoos]

Reconstructions and modern genetic affinities:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ-EdpTWIAIjPym?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbRFJ0hacAADVV2?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbRJ5GMaUAEaHZk?format=jpg&name=large